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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: A gorgeous young Amish mom, just twenty three years old

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Speaker 2: and pregnant is murdered in her own home.

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Speaker 3: In Amish Country. What in her own home? Now?

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Speaker 2: According to many people that are familiar with the Amish lifestyle,

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Speaker 2: they are deeply religious. They issue modern entrapments. They don't

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Speaker 2: drive cars, much less flashy cars. Many of them don't

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Speaker 2: even use zippers to zip their clothing. They use buttons.

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Speaker 2: They dress very plainly and try their best to emulate

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Speaker 2: their Lord Christ by being humble and loving the Lord.

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Speaker 3: So how in a.

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Speaker 2: Community where there are not even zippers, much less guns,

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Speaker 2: where everyone has a vow of pacifism, does this young

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Speaker 2: pregnant mom end up dead?

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Speaker 1: Right now?

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Speaker 2: Only one clue to who did this deed? I Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 2: here at Crime Stories and on Serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to Lieutenant Martin Windorf PSP.

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Speaker 4: Cory got a call through nine to one one of

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Speaker 4: a deceased female that was found at the scene. Here

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Speaker 4: we respond. At this point we have confirmed the identity

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Speaker 4: of the female that she has deceased and it looks

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Speaker 4: like suspicious circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Right now, the police in Homage Country are holding everything

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Speaker 2: very tightly and close to the vest.

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Speaker 3: We have managed to get.

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Speaker 2: The name of the victim, twenty three year old Rebecca Biler,

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Speaker 2: twenty three years old at her unborn baby, both dead.

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Speaker 2: We understand in the family home. We also understand two

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Speaker 2: little children were in the home at the time of

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Speaker 2: the murders. The murders, all of this is unfolding now.

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Speaker 2: We are trying to confirm everything.

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Speaker 3: That we are learning.

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Speaker 2: But right now the hunt is on and the investigation

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Speaker 2: is on for Rebeccah's killer. Tip line eight one four

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Speaker 2: six sixty three two zero four to three repeat eight

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Speaker 2: one four six six three two zero four three Again.

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Speaker 2: This has occurred in Amish Country, Pennsylvania. With me and

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Speaker 2: all Star panel to makes sense of what we know

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Speaker 2: right now. But to Trooper Cindy Shick, PIO, Pennsylvania State Police, listen,

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Speaker 2: the death.

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Speaker 5: Is currently being investigated as a criminal homicide. We are

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Speaker 5: aggressively investigating all available leads. We want to solve this

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Speaker 5: just like the community wants us to solve it. So

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Speaker 5: any information that's out there, we want people to come forward.

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Speaker 5: And help us resolve this issue.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in All Star Panel to makes sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know right now. But I do know this,

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Speaker 2: typically when LA law enforcement is begging the public for help,

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Speaker 2: that means they really do need help in solving the

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Speaker 2: murder of Rebecca Biler, just twenty three years old and

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Speaker 2: our unborn child. Again, All Star Panel, Joining me first,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Jennifer Barrosso, investigative reporter KDKATV. Jennifer,

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Speaker 2: first of all, tell me where this happened. I lived

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania for a good bit of time and travel

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Speaker 2: to Amish country. When you go to Amish Country, the

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Speaker 2: plattes on which the homes are situated can be three

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Speaker 2: four seven acres. They're big, there's very low population. Tell

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Speaker 2: me about the area, Jennifer Barrosso.

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Speaker 6: So, Nancy, as you mentioned at the top of this

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Speaker 6: report that this Crawford County is a very very rural county.

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Speaker 6: It is about twenty five miles southeast of Erie, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 6: There is a fair amount of Amish in the area

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Speaker 6: where this murder happened. The house was on a dirt road,

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Speaker 6: so it would not be unusual if you drove through

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Speaker 6: that area that you may not see your next door neighbor.

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Speaker 6: It's spread apart, and that is a challenge for law enforcement.

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Speaker 6: Right now, you know sources telling me that this happened

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Speaker 6: on a dirt road, so you're not going to have

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Speaker 6: a lot of people driving there. Thus, not a lot

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Speaker 6: of people, not a lot of witnesses.

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Speaker 2: Basically, Jennifer Bross said, that's exactly where I'm headed.

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Speaker 3: You read my mind. Now.

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Speaker 2: You know, in a lot of big cities they think

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Speaker 2: the world ends at their city limits. But FYI for

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Speaker 2: your information everybody. And as I grew up on a

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Speaker 2: red dirt road in rural Georgia, the vast majority of

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Speaker 2: the US is rural, right, so we need to address

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Speaker 2: the realities of investigating a murder in a rural area.

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Speaker 2: And yes, this has been deemed suspicious circumstances. It is

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Speaker 2: considered a homicide. This young twenty three year old mom

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Speaker 2: has been shot dead, a pregnant mom, which I'll go

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Speaker 2: into later with doctor Jory Crawsen. The single most dangerous

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Speaker 2: time for a woman is during pregnancy, murder homicide being

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Speaker 2: the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women. But

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Speaker 2: hold on, doctor Jory, before I get into the whole

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Speaker 2: psychology of pregnant women ending up dead. I want to

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Speaker 2: get these facts down joining us right now. In addition

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Speaker 2: to Jennifer Barosso Kdka and Jory Crawson, who have already

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Speaker 2: introduced you doctor jury psychologist's former law enforcement now faculty

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Speaker 2: at Saint Leo University and by the way, you can

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Speaker 2: find him at doctor Jory j O R e Y

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Speaker 2: dot com. I want to go now to Jared Farentino,

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Speaker 2: homicide prosecutor in this jurisdiction of Pennsylvania, at Jaredfarentino dot com.

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Speaker 2: He's also the host of True Crime Boss podcast, wildly popular.

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Speaker 2: I might add Jared Farentino down to the brass tacks. Okay,

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Speaker 2: when I'm in court prosecuting a homicide case, very often,

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Speaker 2: except for their probitive value what they prove to me,

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Speaker 2: I try to remove myself and my emotions from the

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Speaker 2: case so I can move forward. Jarrett Farantino, this is

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Speaker 2: very difficult. A young mom, just twenty three years old, pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure how pregnant she is. I think I know,

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Speaker 2: but I don't definitely know. So the fact that this

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Speaker 2: young mom has been shot multiple times in her home

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Speaker 2: with their two and three year old child in the home.

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Speaker 2: Those are the facts we have so far. Is unheard of,

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Speaker 2: Jarrett Farantino. How do you remove yourself from the emotion

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Speaker 2: of prosecuting a case, investigating a case where a young

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Speaker 2: mom is slaughtered, pregnant, young.

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Speaker 7: Mom, Nancy. It's damn near impossible to do that. You

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Speaker 7: take those emotions and you let them motivate you in

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Speaker 7: the investmentation and the hard work you have to do,

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Speaker 7: as you well know, in prosecuting these cases. You have

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Speaker 7: a young twenty three year old mother. You have two

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Speaker 7: children left without a mother, and a little baby inside

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Speaker 7: of her that will never have a chance at life.

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Speaker 7: This is a tragedy all the way around and extremely

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Speaker 7: difficult to prosecute. But that's the work of a prosecutor.

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Speaker 7: As you well know, you have to put your emotions aside,

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Speaker 7: consider the evidence, and move forward.

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Speaker 3: I know this.

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Speaker 2: It took us a long time to just get the

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Speaker 2: name Rebecca Biler, and then we learned we believe that

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Speaker 2: she was six months pregnant, the baby viable. We know,

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Speaker 2: we think we know right now that she was shot

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Speaker 2: dead in the living room of her own home. Jerreff Fiarantine.

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Speaker 2: We've heard nothing about a forced entry, no sex attack,

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Speaker 2: and no robbery.

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Speaker 3: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 7: Well, those things there, as you know, are very telling.

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Speaker 7: I've said before when I've been with you, absence of

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Speaker 7: evidence is not evidence of absence. You have certain things

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Speaker 7: that didn't happen here. Two children that survived, you have

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Speaker 7: no forced entry. It would suggest to investigators it's someone

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Speaker 7: with familiarity of the property and someone who felt the

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Speaker 7: need not to harm those other two children. Those are

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Speaker 7: certain things that will jump out at investigators. And I

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Speaker 7: know we were talking about how rural this is Nancy.

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Speaker 7: There's rural and then there's Amish country. This is a

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Speaker 7: throwback to a pre technology time which presents so many

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Speaker 7: unique challenges to investigators and prosecutors in assessing what happened here.

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Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, I'm glad you said that, Jari Fiorentino.

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Speaker 2: Could you explain what you meant by that throwback to

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Speaker 2: a time without technology?

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Speaker 5: Sure?

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Speaker 7: I mean the Homish beliefs are an Anabaptist belief where

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Speaker 7: technology is viewed by Amish people as almost like an

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Speaker 7: interference in their community and just a way to ostracize

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Speaker 7: themselves from one another. And Christ quite honestly, so, any

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Speaker 7: type of technology that usually assists investigators, like a cell phone,

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Speaker 7: would not be present in Amish country. It would be

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Speaker 7: an outlier to have a cell phone in Amagh Country

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Speaker 7: unless it was related to the work one of the

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Speaker 7: members of the community was engaged in. So as we said,

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Speaker 7: you don't have cars passing by, you also don't have

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Speaker 7: this unique tool of a cell phone typically an Amish

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Speaker 7: country to assist in an investigation like.

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Speaker 1: This time stories with me. It's a grace, you know.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about another aspect of this, and I

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Speaker 2: want to go back to Jennifer Barrosso, who is actually

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Speaker 2: joining us in the Pennsylvania jurisdiction. She's with KATIKATV. She's

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Speaker 2: out in the field joining us. Jennifer, It's bad enough

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Speaker 2: in my mind that a twenty three year old, it's

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Speaker 2: basically a girl, she's twenty three. Yet this girl is

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Speaker 2: a grown woman with two children, a husband, a home,

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Speaker 2: and about to give birth to her third child, even

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Speaker 2: if she didn't have the two children and the baby

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Speaker 2: on the way, claiming somebody's life, murdering them at twenty three.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I remember my fiance was about this age

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Speaker 2: when he was murdered just before a wedding, and just

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Speaker 2: the taking of a life before you can even really

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Speaker 2: start your life a young girl. I mean, the community

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Speaker 2: has got to be devastated, because I am and I've

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Speaker 2: never known Rebecca except in death. To tell me about

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Speaker 2: how this has affected them, and are they willing to

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Speaker 2: come forward with information because I'm not sure anybody on

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Speaker 2: the panel helped me out, because I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Aren't amish.

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Speaker 2: Aren't they against judging anyone making a judgment on another person?

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Speaker 2: I mean, would they be willing to cut break ranks

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Speaker 2: and come forward if they knew anything?

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Speaker 8: Nancy, I just looked this one up before we started

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Speaker 8: the show, and yes, they typically don't report crimes before

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Speaker 8: they happen, or obviously before they happen. But they typically

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Speaker 8: don't report crimes proactively right in the moment. But they

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Speaker 8: do cooperate with law enforcement once a crime has happened,

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Speaker 8: because they tend to try to insulate themselves from the outside,

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Speaker 8: and so I'm hopeful that they will be cooperating much

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Speaker 8: more than they would before this happens. In other words,

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Speaker 8: if there was a domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Issue, guys, this is Robin Drake speaking behavior expert, former

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Speaker 2: FBI special agent.

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Speaker 3: That's the part I like, and listen to.

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Speaker 2: This Chief of the FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. Repeat,

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Speaker 2: Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I should just go home right now after saying

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Speaker 2: that author of sizing people up a veteran FBI agent's

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Speaker 2: manual for behavior prediction, Robin Drake joining us. Robin, what

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Speaker 2: further light can you shed on this? Because right now

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Speaker 2: police are begging for help, and I'm about to give

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Speaker 2: you the one clue. Actually, let me give you the

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Speaker 2: clue right now. Take a listen to our friend at

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Speaker 2: crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 1: Dave mack.

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Speaker 9: Spartan Township, Pennsylvania, has a population of less than two

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Speaker 9: thousand people. This area, about thirty five miles southeast of Erie,

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Speaker 9: is homage country and an Amish country or some buggies

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Speaker 9: are the preferred mode of transportation. So when a red

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Speaker 9: is parked in the driveway at Andy and Rebecca Buyler's home,

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Speaker 9: family and friends take notice. It's around ten am on Monday.

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Speaker 9: Some members of the community report is seeing the red

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Speaker 9: jeep driving up and down their road earlier that morning.

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Speaker 3: Okay, a red jeep, a red jeep.

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Speaker 2: And also when I researched this, I got eighteen thousand

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Speaker 2: population in Sparta township, Jennifer, Barosso is at less than

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Speaker 2: eighteen thousand because my research at eighteen thousand. But I

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Speaker 2: just heard Dave Max say two thousand, which is even

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Speaker 2: more on the point I was making of a low population.

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Speaker 3: Jennifer, what's the answer.

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Speaker 6: You're correct, it is about two thousand in terms of population,

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Speaker 6: once again making it very arduous for law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, Robin Drake, she's right. I want to get

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Speaker 2: back to you on the one clue that we've got

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Speaker 2: so far, a red jeep driving up and down on.

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Speaker 3: Their road earlier that morning.

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Speaker 2: We think that she was killed before lunchtime and after

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Speaker 2: the husband went to work, so that could be crucial.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, Robin Drake, people tour, they go visit,

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Speaker 2: as I did when I was living with my sister

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Speaker 2: in Philly. They go tour Amish country. So what does

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Speaker 2: the red jeep really tell me? And does that mean

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Speaker 2: riding up and down the road or up and down

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Speaker 2: their driveway.

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Speaker 3: Let's just start with the red jeep, Robin.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Well, it's an outliar, and that's what we're looking

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Speaker 8: for in cases like this. This community is a community

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Speaker 8: of massively established, baseline normal behavior. So I agree with

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Speaker 8: Jared wholeheartedly spoke earlier that we don't have a lot

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Speaker 8: to go on, but what we do have to go

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Speaker 8: on is a profile. The likelihood of her knowing her

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Speaker 8: murderer is really really high when you're looking at stats,

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Speaker 8: and when you have outliers of behavior like this red Jeep,

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Speaker 8: you're immediately going to zero in on it. The challenge,

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Speaker 8: as has been highlighted, is the distance between people. But

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Speaker 8: at the same time, though, if you're looking at the

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Speaker 8: fact that she most likely knew her murderer, if we're

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Speaker 8: looking at stats and it's a really really small type community,

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Speaker 8: even though they're spread out, the likelihood of other people

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Speaker 8: in that community knowing or at least pretting able to

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Speaker 8: provide leads is really high. And then when you can

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Speaker 8: kind of triangulate a red Jeep on that, I'm the

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Speaker 8: glass half full kind of guy in the sense of, hey,

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Speaker 8: we just got to work the problem, and I think

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Speaker 8: they hopefully will have enough just because this person, whoever

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Speaker 8: it was, felt very very safe in committing this crime

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Speaker 8: in broad daylight in a home with two other children.

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Speaker 2: Another issue, Jennifer Barrosso KDKA, is while we're getting conflicting reports,

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Speaker 2: we're also getting a report that the red jeep was

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Speaker 2: actually in their driveway.

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Speaker 3: What do you know?

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Speaker 6: So police are not saying much about that red jeep,

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Speaker 6: but they do tell me sources that they have people

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Speaker 6: of interest, but no suspects. They've checked out the husband.

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Speaker 6: They tell me that they're fairly confident his alibi checked out.

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Speaker 6: One thing I wanted to point out, Nancy, is that

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Speaker 6: my source is telling me that they've had some burglaries

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Speaker 6: of Amish residents in that area, not specifically saying on

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Speaker 6: that dirt road, but that's one thing they pointed out

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Speaker 6: to me right now. Who was in that red jeep.

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Speaker 6: They're not really elaborating much more than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeahs for those of you just joining us, a beautiful

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Speaker 2: young twenty three year old woman, practically a girl six

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Speaker 2: months pregnant with two children too, taught ages two and three.

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Speaker 3: We believe in the home at the time mommy is murdered.

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Speaker 2: You know, doctor Jory's going to have to figure out

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Speaker 2: for me what effect this is going to have on them.

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Speaker 3: But to doctor.

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Speaker 2: Michelle Dupree, joining me renowned forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former

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Speaker 2: detective with Lexington County Sheriff's Department, author of money, mischief

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Speaker 2: and murder, the Murdog saga.

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Speaker 3: In fact, she shot.

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Speaker 2: To the forefront of the national consciousness when Alexei Murdog

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Speaker 2: was prosecuted in her jurisdiction of South Carolina. But what

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Speaker 2: interests me the most about doctor Dupree is she is

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Speaker 2: the author, literally wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

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Speaker 2: which I have relied on many times, doctor Dupree. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Michelle questioned to you, do you remember when Alexei Murdog.

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Speaker 3: Arranged his own shooting.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's just a pain in my reread even now,

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Speaker 2: on a rural road by his drug dealing buddy and relative.

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Speaker 2: And there was no surveillance cameras around. And you and

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Speaker 2: I were on air analyzing one day, and we came

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Speaker 2: up with the theory that the cameras at the far

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Speaker 2: end of that rural road that intersected with a bigger

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Speaker 2: highway should be checked. And in fact, there was an

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Speaker 2: old Baptist church there with cameras that showed Murnog and any.

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Speaker 3: Other cars going onto that rural road.

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Speaker 2: Now, while I know, none of the Amish homes themselves

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Speaker 2: have ring cameras. I really believe that step number one,

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Speaker 2: outside the processing of the crime scene and the home,

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Speaker 2: should be going to those locations where people would turn

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Speaker 2: off to go to homage country and review all the

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Speaker 2: video see if they can find the red jeep turning in,

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Speaker 2: because nobody in that neighborhood owns a red jeep. I

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Speaker 2: can promise you that and catch it turning in from

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Speaker 2: all points, all angles going to that location. It may

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Speaker 2: be one, two, five, ten miles away, but they had

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Speaker 2: to get their some out.

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Speaker 10: That's exactly right, Nancy, And that's an excellent idea. If

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Speaker 10: we had cameras at either end of that road that

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Speaker 10: might pick up a red cheek and we could get

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Speaker 10: the license plate number. That would be an excellent investigative tool.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, doctor Duprix, Have you ever performed an autopsy on

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Speaker 2: a pregnant lady?

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Speaker 10: I have, Nancy. There was a motor vehicle accident and

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Speaker 10: we were actually able to extract the baby and the

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Speaker 10: baby did live, but the mother did not.

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Speaker 2: You know, Doctor dupre an ironclad rule cross examination or

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Speaker 2: direct is to never ask the question you don't know

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Speaker 2: the answer.

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Speaker 3: I just did that. I thought that's what you were

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Speaker 3: going to say.

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Speaker 2: With all of your thousands of cases you've worked.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about the death of Rebecca.

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Speaker 2: She endured, we believe, multiple gunshot wounds in her own home,

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Speaker 2: in her living room, and her unborn child died as well.

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Speaker 10: Nancy, I can't fathom this. I am sure that she

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Speaker 10: was scared to death, not just for her life, but

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Speaker 10: for the life of her unborn child. I don't know

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Speaker 10: where on the body she was shot, but I'm sure

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Speaker 10: that it was terrifying and painful as well. And again,

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Speaker 10: just thinking of her dying and her child dying must

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Speaker 10: have been horrifying.

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Speaker 2: How long would it have taken her to bleed out,

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Speaker 2: either externally or internally?

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Speaker 10: Of course, all that depends on how many times she

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Speaker 10: was shot and where she was shot, but it could

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Speaker 10: be as little as a few minutes too even longer,

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Speaker 10: just again depending on where she was shot.

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Speaker 2: And regarding the baby, how along would the baby live

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Speaker 2: after mommy was shot.

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Speaker 10: Well, it would not be very long. She would have

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Speaker 10: to have received almost immediate medical care and to have

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Speaker 10: the baby probably removed by cesarean section, providing that none

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Speaker 10: of the child or the placenta or anything was actually injured,

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Speaker 10: so it would have been minutes really.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can remember Doctor Dupree when I had

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Speaker 2: an emergency delivery. I was to a point where I

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Speaker 2: couldn't breathe very well at all, and they were just

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Speaker 2: trying to get the twins out quickly, you know, to

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Speaker 2: make sure that they survived. I'm just imagining all this

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Speaker 2: family is going through now. The community is rallying around

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Speaker 2: this family. The local residents are raising money, food, anything

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Speaker 2: to try to help the family. Guys, I want to

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Speaker 2: go now to doctor Jory Crausen, who I've mentioned several

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Speaker 2: times to make sense of what we know. But first,

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Speaker 2: doctor Jory, I want you to hear more facts from

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Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories.

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Speaker 11: It's just afternoon when Andy Byler and a friend arrive

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Speaker 11: at the Biler home. He shares the home with his

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Speaker 11: pregnant wife, Rebecca, and their two children. At around twelve

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Speaker 11: to fifteen pm, Byler walks into his living room, finding

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Speaker 11: his wife dead on the floor. After checking on his wife,

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Speaker 11: Byler starts looking for his children, and the friend calls police.

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Speaker 11: The children are in the home unharmed.

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Speaker 2: The children in the home unharmed to doctor U, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Jory Crawsen, what effect will this have on them, because so.

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Speaker 3: Often we hear.

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Speaker 2: Misinformed individual state, oh, they won't remember, they will remember

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Speaker 2: one way or the other, Doctor Jory.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, let me start off with you know, you're born

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Speaker 12: with just two fears, the fear of falling and loud noises.

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Speaker 12: The gunshots are going to be recorded in the memory,

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Speaker 12: even of a two year old. Okay, that fear factor

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Speaker 12: is initiated with that loud sound, that explosion, So they're

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Speaker 12: going to remember this. You know, it may start to

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Speaker 12: be buried. Of course as they develop. The other factor

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Speaker 12: you have to consider is the loss of their mother.

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Speaker 12: They're in the stage is now where they bond and attach,

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Speaker 12: and that's where you know, their self confidence, their self esteem,

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Speaker 12: their identity, all of that is built on that attachment

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Speaker 12: to the paternal figures, both mother and father.

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Speaker 2: You know, very often to you, Jarrett Farantino, we immediately

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Speaker 2: look to the husband. But I'd like to harken back

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Speaker 2: to a case that I investigated and covered the case

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Speaker 2: of pastor Davey Blackburn who left one morning to go

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Speaker 2: to the gym to work out really early in the morning.

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Speaker 2: He came home to find his pregnant wife shot dead

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Speaker 2: in the foyer the entry hall to their home. His wife, Amanda,

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Speaker 2: and everyone immediately assumed he was somehow involved.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, the purpose are part of

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Speaker 2: a burglary robbery crew that had been canvassing the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: and came in the home when Amanda was there with

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Speaker 2: her child and shot her dead for no reason.

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Speaker 3: They could have just left, but they didn't. They killed her.

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Speaker 2: So I think everyone should proceed with caution before the

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Speaker 2: finger is pointed at the husband way in Jared.

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Speaker 7: I agree, Nancy. All options have to be on the table.

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Speaker 7: We cannot come at these kinds of cases with a

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Speaker 7: prosecutorial bias. It will inhibit the investigation. It will cause

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Speaker 7: investigators to look away from what could be relevant and

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Speaker 7: important evidence. So, as you said, there have been many

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Speaker 7: cases where it has been the husband, But at the

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Speaker 7: same time, there are those other cases where a third

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Speaker 7: party was introduced or it was a burglary gone bad.

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Speaker 7: All options right now appear to be on the table,

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Speaker 7: and that red jeep really throws the possibility that there

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Speaker 7: was someone from outside this community entering into that Amish community,

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Speaker 7: and that's exactly how a co investigatives have to look at it.

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Speaker 2: A family left struggling to understand what has happened to

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Speaker 2: a beloved wife, a young woman just twenty three and

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Speaker 2: a mother to two. To Jennifer Brosso joining us, I

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Speaker 2: understand that the time of death has been now estimated

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Speaker 2: to be between eight thirty AM and twelve fifteen. I'm

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Speaker 2: assuming they're getting the twelve fifteen because that's the time

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Speaker 2: the husband came home with the friend. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if eight point thirty is the time he left, or

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Speaker 2: if they're somehow determining that time from the state of

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Speaker 2: her body.

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Speaker 6: So we were trying to ask police more about that.

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Speaker 6: They are staying tight lipped. Just what I was told

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Speaker 6: that like other Amish families, this this mother would get

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Speaker 6: up and she would do the laundry, make breakfast, the

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Speaker 6: house was very clean, and what what the when the

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Speaker 6: husband actually left for work and what he did that morning,

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Speaker 6: what brought him home around twelve Policies aren't saying. I

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Speaker 6: know that they have interviewed the husband and basically sources

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Speaker 6: telling me that his alibi this checks out. They they

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Speaker 6: have people of interest, but no suspects in this case

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Speaker 6: right now, but really trying to get those details about

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Speaker 6: what made him come home. We're still waiting to hear

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Speaker 6: from police on that.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so that's making me wonder did he not

436
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: normally come home for lunch? So when you say they're

437
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what made him come home, now,

438
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: I want to know why he came home. Robin Drake

439
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: joining me, behavioral expert, formerly chief of FBI counter Intelligence

440
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: Behavioral Analysis Program, now author. Robin again, thank you for

441
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: being with us. Very often, you'll hear a lot of pushback. Wow,

442
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: you're looking at the husband.

443
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

444
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: I always look at the husband, the boyfriend, the lover,

445
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: the ex because statistically.

446
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: They did it. Bam, there you go. Those are the statistics.

447
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: I didn't make him up.

448
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: They are gathered from thousands and thousands and tens of

449
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: thousands of examples. That's why statistically you look at the husband,

450
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: that does not mean the husband did it. And in fact,

451
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: in this case, he seems to have an alibi.

452
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, And that's why they call it profiling, because you

453
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 8: create an ideal resume of someone that would typically commit

454
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 8: this type of crime based on research and data that

455
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 8: you can then take and create an overlay. So when

456
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 8: you have all these leads coming in, hopefully there's lots

457
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 8: of leads coming in, you can start creating a filter

458
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 8: based on that ideal resume or profile. And again, this

459
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 8: community is a community of pattern. They've done the same

460
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 8: thing for a couple hundred years, and so hopefully the

461
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 8: people are going to notice a deviation from that pattern,

462
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 8: both with individuals vehicles obviously, whether whether I really hope

463
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 8: that there is cameras at the end of the road,

464
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 8: you know, when they enter the main highway, maybe the

465
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 8: individual if they were from outside. Again, you've got to

466
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 8: go where the leads and the evidence takes you without

467
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 8: that presumption.

468
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: Crime stories with me, it's a grace.

469
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: We know that Amish are pacifists. That's very well documented.

470
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: We know that from every single war that the US

471
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: has been involved in. But weapons are not forbidden. Guns

472
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: are not forbidden amongst the Amish. Are you surprised?

473
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: I was.

474
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 8: I really wouldn't consider. But when you kind of do

475
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 8: that overlay of self reliance and resilience in a more

476
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 8: rural kind of life, hunting would be appropriate, and so

477
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 8: you would have a firearm for hunting, but violence against others,

478
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 8: that is abhorrent to them, that is against all things.

479
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 8: And so it's just, boy, this is a real curious one,

480
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 8: just because there's a lot of there's a lot of

481
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 8: small data points that are kind of standing out from that.

482
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 8: Firearms is a huge one that's standing out because of

483
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 8: the type of community, but the red truck is also

484
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 8: standing out. Again. I'm really I can't. I'm really looking

485
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 8: forward to see what law enforcement says next week when

486
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 8: they finally do let some information out there, because I

487
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 8: think it's going to have a lot of details in

488
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 8: it that will hopefully be helpful.

489
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: Well, the amist are so dedicated to pacifism they don't

490
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: even celebrate holidays that lawd honor or glorify the military

491
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: or any military victory. They don't even do that. But

492
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: guns apparently did not fit into their definition of technology.

493
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: I'm not sure exactly.

494
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: Why, but I do know now because of this case

495
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: that guns are allowed in homage communities. At first, I thought,

496
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 2: wait a minute, a gun that means nobody in their

497
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: neighborhood or community did it.

498
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 3: That's not entirely true.

499
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: However, just as you said, Robbin Drie, the red jeep

500
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: is the fly in that ointment because the purp may

501
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: have not only had it. When we know the purp

502
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: had a gun and yes it is a he count

503
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: on it, but they may have been driving a red jeep.

504
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: What more do we know? Take a listen to what

505
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: we know about the autopsy. This is Sydney Sumner Crime Online.

506
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 11: Investigators aren't releasing information from Buyler's autopsy, but they do

507
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 11: say the findings help determine when Rebecca Buyler was killed,

508
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 11: and that has investigators asking for the community's help. They're

509
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 11: looking for information on Buyler's movements from eight thirty am

510
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 11: to twelve fifteen pm on Monday, as that was when

511
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 11: Buyler and the two children were at the home alone.

512
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: And more from Rachel Bonea Crime Stories.

513
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 13: Police cars line fish Flatt's road outside the Builer home.

514
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 13: Rebecca Builer's death has been ruled a homicide. Authorities have

515
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 13: not yet revealed how Builer was killed, but according to

516
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 13: CBS News, Buyler was shot multiple times. Police say the

517
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 13: crime does not look like a robbery, as there's no

518
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 13: evidence that anything was taken from the home. For now,

519
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 13: there are no suspects or a motive.

520
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: The fact that nothing was taken from the home, Jarrett Farantino,

521
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: I find probative. It proves something to me that robbery

522
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: was not the motive. However, in the k saw Pastor

523
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: Davy Blackburn, his wife Amanda was killed. As I recall,

524
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: nothing was taken from that home either the props had

525
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: intended to burglarize it, but I don't recall if anything

526
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: was actually taken. So the fact that we can't find

527
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: anything taken does not mean the motivation was not robbery.

528
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 7: I agree, Nancy. This is something where Rebecca could have

529
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 7: happened upon someone that entered the home, the killing occurred,

530
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 7: and that person fled the scene, although it was ultimately

531
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 7: their intention to commit the robbery when they entered the property,

532
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 7: So that is an option that has to certainly be considered.

533
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, think you're right, doctor Jordy Crausa, and you're

534
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: the shrink.

535
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: Think about it.

536
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: She was shot dead, from what we know, fully clothed

537
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: in the living room, which means to me, did she

538
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: hear somebody coming in the front door when they weren't.

539
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: Supposed to be?

540
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: Like I know what time my children are going to

541
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: walk through the door, What time my husband's going to

542
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: walk through the door, what time my mom is going

543
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: to come out of her room.

544
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: I know that, and.

545
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: When I hear it, I know what it is. Did

546
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 2: she hear the front door open and went, WHOA, who's that?

547
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: And went to go explore? Because she was gunned down

548
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: right there in the living room looking.

549
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 12: At the suspect, whoever it may be, you know, with

550
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 12: the behavior pattern he may have come into, like rob

551
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 12: or burgerized, got startled, shot her, saw the two children,

552
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 12: and then just abandoned that plan, like I got to

553
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 12: get out of here now. So now the survival moon

554
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 12: kicks in and he just he takes nothing. He wants

555
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 12: to get away, He wants to get out of here.

556
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out what police as if

557
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: they need our help.

558
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: But what should police be doing right now? What about it?

559
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 8: Robin Drake, I'm looking at all everyone from past relationships,

560
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 8: you know. I used to watch a show of Breaking

561
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 8: Amish and when you look at the average age of

562
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 8: the poppylar of this small Amish community, it's in the forties,

563
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 8: which means that the younger people are leaving in droves,

564
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 8: not droves necessarily, but it's a decreasing population. When it

565
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 8: looked at this particular area, which means that there could

566
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 8: have been someone in this woman's background that has left

567
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 8: the community and maybe come back again. It's a hypothesis,

568
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 8: and we're going to go where the data and the

569
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 8: leads follow us and the evidence follows. But when I

570
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 8: see a red jeep, when I see I mean, it

571
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 8: can be anything, like you said, a burglary gone bad.

572
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 8: But man, it's in the middle of nowhere. They kind

573
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 8: of knew when to go to the house, when the

574
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 8: husband's going to be away, and nothing was taken. I mean,

575
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 8: like you said, when you look at all the statistics

576
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 8: and you create that overlay in that profile, it's kind

577
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 8: of leading you down the path that most likely the

578
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 8: high probability that she knew who murdered her. So I'm

579
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 8: looking at and interviewing everyone in that community that knows

580
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 8: each other really, really well, and who from the passion

581
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 8: we have a conversation with, especially if they might not

582
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 8: be part of the community anymore.

583
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: Jackie Howard, what do you know, Nancy.

584
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 14: We just learned from the search warrant filings for the

585
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 14: Builer home that Rebecca Biler appeared to have suffered cutting

586
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 14: wounds to her neck and head. Now this is obviously

587
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 14: physically different from the reports of the gunshots that we

588
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 14: had before, but the neck and head are areas of

589
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 14: the body that bleed the most, so it's easy to

590
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 14: see why that was the initial conclusion from witnesses at

591
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 14: the scene. Trooper Adam Black, who filed the search warrants,

592
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 14: wrote the victim's husband, Andy Byler, found the body a

593
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 14: short distance inside the home a woman previously described by

594
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,439
Speaker 14: police as a family friend called nine to one one.

595
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 14: Police say so far, the investigation and autopsy have given

596
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 14: investigators an idea of what the murder weapon may have been,

597
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 14: but it is not in police custody. The warrants are

598
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 14: for knives, blades, cutting instruments, and other items. Again, police

599
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 14: have not said how Rebecca Biler was killed. So far,

600
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 14: there are no suspects, and police are asking for the

601
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 14: public to report any tips or suspicious people, vehicles, or

602
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 14: activity in the area of Fish Flats Road. Pennsylvania Crime

603
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 14: Stoppers say there's a two thousand dollars reward for information.

604
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the

605
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: brutal murder of Rebecca Biler and our unborn child, please

606
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 2: call eight one four six ' sixty three two zero

607
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: four to three repeat eight one four six ' sixty

608
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 2: three two zero four three.

609
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 3: There is a go fund Me.

610
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: Online right now where funds are being gathered to help

611
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: the family of Rebecca Biler.

612
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: We wait as justice unfolds.

613
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: Goodbye friends,