WEBVTT - Bonus: The Last Ham

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<v Speaker 1>From my Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the

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<v Speaker 1>story of two congressmen who vanished in nine two and

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<v Speaker 1>my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>your host, John Waalzac. At the end of every episode,

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<v Speaker 1>I assigned what some lovingly call homework. Ways you can

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<v Speaker 1>help move this story forward and guess what you have.

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard from so many of you, and I really

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate your help. In episode two, I asked you to

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<v Speaker 1>help me find the Ham radio operators who heard a

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<v Speaker 1>mysterious transmission that allegedly came from the Beggage Box plane.

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<v Speaker 1>The day it disappeared. I knew that two of the

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<v Speaker 1>Ham operators were dead, but I wasn't sure about the

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<v Speaker 1>other four. Then I started to hear from you, our listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>One person who emailed us was Anne Shepherd of Abington, Maryland,

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<v Speaker 1>and did some sleuthing and figured out that one of

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<v Speaker 1>the Hams, Ronald Crawford, was actually Donald Crawford. Newspapers misreported

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<v Speaker 1>his name in nineteen seventy two. Thanks to Anne, our

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<v Speaker 1>assistant producer Chris Brown was able to speak with Don's

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<v Speaker 1>son Bain, who clearly remembers the incident. He said his

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<v Speaker 1>father heard the alleged pilot say the plane was quote sliding.

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<v Speaker 1>After Anne Leeds continued to flow in, including one from Wyoming,

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<v Speaker 1>where a couple heard my call for help. They told

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<v Speaker 1>me they knew a man named Joe Tatum. He lived

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<v Speaker 1>in an assisted living facility. He might be the Joe Tatum,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the Hams who heard the mystery transmission. They

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<v Speaker 1>called him. Turns out he is the Joe Tatum, the

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<v Speaker 1>last person alive who heard the transmission that's find the plane.

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<v Speaker 1>Tatum is eighty three. He lives in Evanston, Wyoming. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell me what did you hear? I heard a

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<v Speaker 1>play a pilot and a plane more a help? And

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<v Speaker 1>what did he What did he say? Do you remember

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<v Speaker 1>what he said? He said he talks to me. HU

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<v Speaker 1>didn't through the miles south west a juno Alaska, and

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<v Speaker 1>I made I made a map and had everything backwards

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<v Speaker 1>because I did not know that there anything about Alaska.

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<v Speaker 1>I just picked it up on the radio and I

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<v Speaker 1>went from here. And did you actually speak with him

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<v Speaker 1>or did you just hear the transmission? Well or the

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<v Speaker 1>transmission but you didn't have a chance to directly speak

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<v Speaker 1>with him. No, I didn't die somewhere huddering through the

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<v Speaker 1>miles from Juno, Alaska in the air, and did he

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<v Speaker 1>say anything else that he did? He say the plane

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<v Speaker 1>was in distress. Yep, he said that he didn't see

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<v Speaker 1>the plane was distressed. He said he was talking to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't brew the mouth southwest of Juno, and that

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<v Speaker 1>they went down and hit hit the rocks and he

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<v Speaker 1>had three casualties. And there they said the plane was slipping.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I heard, and then we lost it. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you remember about how long you heard these transmissions for?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it a few minutes? Was it? Was it several

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<v Speaker 1>times over the course of an hour? It was so

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<v Speaker 1>probably about five minutes all total at the time hearing

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<v Speaker 1>him trying to talk to him and the plane going down,

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<v Speaker 1>So you heard him while he was in the air,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you say after he crossed he ever then

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<v Speaker 1>after he crashes, because we heard I heard him beIN

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<v Speaker 1>here first and he when he said he was probably

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<v Speaker 1>a hundred thirty miles southwest a Juno. And the next

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<v Speaker 1>the next thing I knew, he said the planet. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>he had hit the rocks and he was uh, had

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<v Speaker 1>three casualties. And that's all we can tell you did

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<v Speaker 1>you get a name? No? He he said them, and

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<v Speaker 1>he had three he had uh passion drucon, he had

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<v Speaker 1>three casualties. And didn't you no name, no name or

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<v Speaker 1>nothing like that? All we all I heard was just

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<v Speaker 1>stress on the radio. Did you hear any tale number? Nope?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I found your name in an old newspaper article.

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<v Speaker 1>And as far as I could tell, um, there were

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<v Speaker 1>I think four to five other men who heard this transmission. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>do you mind if I passed their names by you

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<v Speaker 1>and you tell me if you remember any of them? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead, al Miller, if you find that plane? How

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<v Speaker 1>did that not? Absolutely? Sir? Yes, Um, al Miller, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not Victor Parker, Roy Harris. See. Most of these

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<v Speaker 1>guys on the radio then was all under both pretense.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey give their r name, And we didn't know who

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<v Speaker 1>was who until we most of us men in that plane.

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<v Speaker 1>When you say under false pretense, you mean just because

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<v Speaker 1>people didn't have official licenses. Yes, Oh, I wasn't a

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<v Speaker 1>true hand operator. I had. I had a CB radio

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<v Speaker 1>strapped down to where I could talk to each about

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<v Speaker 1>anybody I want to do. So, when you picked up

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<v Speaker 1>this transmission, did you pick it up on a HAM

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<v Speaker 1>radio or on a CB radio. I picked it up

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<v Speaker 1>on my HAM receiver and most of them was heard

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<v Speaker 1>on the TB radio. Gotcha, se So just to be clear,

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<v Speaker 1>you you picked it up on on a HAM receiver though, yes, um,

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<v Speaker 1>And then so you know obviously know more about radio

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<v Speaker 1>than me. But you you picked it up on the

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<v Speaker 1>HAM and a CB radio or just on the ham

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<v Speaker 1>he I had it on. I had it on both.

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing about a dish. Uh, he must have

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<v Speaker 1>had channel line in his radio in that plane because

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<v Speaker 1>we had we heard and playing clearer mm hm and

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<v Speaker 1>so um, do you remember any other details about what

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<v Speaker 1>he said? I've slept shimping. And so you said that

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<v Speaker 1>you made a map? Was that just you pulled out

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<v Speaker 1>a map of Alaska and you and you were looking. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't bu on the map of Alaska. I sat

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<v Speaker 1>down and dragged me a piece of paper, on a

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<v Speaker 1>piece of paper where he was proxiling Matt where he

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<v Speaker 1>was going, and I had it backwards because I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know that Juno was on the lower end and not

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<v Speaker 1>down on the where he was at. I picked it

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<v Speaker 1>all back for Joash kind of dumbfounded over y I

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<v Speaker 1>feel a little stupid after I learn minute that that

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<v Speaker 1>Juno was way down here next door the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>and Alaska was up the end of the day was

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<v Speaker 1>further north. Yeah, John is pretty low and if you're right,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you know most people unless you look at

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<v Speaker 1>a map, but you think Alaska and what you think

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<v Speaker 1>of is the northern part, and Juno's, you know, all

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<v Speaker 1>the way further down. But um, so, so you know

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<v Speaker 1>you said that he mentioned being did you say a

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and twenty or a hundred and thirty miles southwest

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<v Speaker 1>of Juno? I heard him say, talxed me a hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and thirty just to be clear, yep, And um did

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<v Speaker 1>he give you an I'm sorry After I got up

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<v Speaker 1>there and and realized I was stupid that David was backwards,

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of realized that he he wasn't where I

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<v Speaker 1>thought he was because Joana mat back which they took

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<v Speaker 1>the little maps that drawed. The Air Force has got

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<v Speaker 1>it somewhere up there, and so the map that you drew.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he give you any other directions or indication other

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<v Speaker 1>than just saying he was a hundred and thirty miles

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<v Speaker 1>southwest of Juneo? No, he didn't have much time to

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<v Speaker 1>give us anything. What did his what did he what

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<v Speaker 1>did he sound like? What was his person? Did he

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<v Speaker 1>sound upset? Was he angry? He needed help? He needed

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<v Speaker 1>help because you could kill his voice and everything that

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<v Speaker 1>he was in trouble and we lost him. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>remember the last thing that you heard from him? I

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<v Speaker 1>think when he said that drew the mouth southwest of Junio, Alaska.

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<v Speaker 1>And so after you heard this transmission, who did you contact?

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<v Speaker 1>What happened afterward? He it rocks and the plane was slipping.

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<v Speaker 1>He had three castles, And did you call the police

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<v Speaker 1>or who did you contact? We called Camp b Or

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was they are based and they said

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<v Speaker 1>they had it all already, and the next morning they

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<v Speaker 1>had us meat at the air base and get on

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<v Speaker 1>a plane and light and what was that experience like this?

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<v Speaker 1>It was a plane ready I've never had. And they

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<v Speaker 1>they throwed the seats out of that big plane. They

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<v Speaker 1>throw it all the seats out of it, lightened it

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<v Speaker 1>up and made room for us to get in it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a fue legit. So they used And you said,

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<v Speaker 1>the other men that flew up with you to Alaska,

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<v Speaker 1>did you know any of them? Or were they all

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<v Speaker 1>new to you. I thank Swamp Fox, I think was

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<v Speaker 1>one of them moved with us, and I knew. I

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<v Speaker 1>knew of him because I talked to him several times

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<v Speaker 1>and when I went out when I won't buy Channel

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<v Speaker 1>nine picked up. The last little part of what was

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<v Speaker 1>going on, Uh, swamp Fox is when I went to

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<v Speaker 1>first and I think Don Crawford, out of Mary Jane

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<v Speaker 1>was one of the boys. Mm hmye h and uh

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<v Speaker 1>Don this type of person. You better be right because

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<v Speaker 1>he don't want a much of bullshit. H he was,

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<v Speaker 1>he was, he was drawing the radio. He picked it

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<v Speaker 1>up from Channel nine and he hildered at me when

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<v Speaker 1>because I'd already went by Channel nine when I first

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<v Speaker 1>picked it up. And then I was trying to get

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<v Speaker 1>somebody done help me because you can only hear so

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<v Speaker 1>much in our radio. And the guy they did need help.

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<v Speaker 1>And I still think he's between Juno and get your

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<v Speaker 1>can or somewhere down in there. And so when you

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<v Speaker 1>went to Alaska, did they were they just asking you

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<v Speaker 1>a million questions? Or what was that process like? In Alaska?

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<v Speaker 1>We said for eighteen hours looking at pictures they had

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<v Speaker 1>taken already with the planes, seeing if we recognize anything. Wait,

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<v Speaker 1>they they had you look at pictures of of what

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<v Speaker 1>gives We just went in an office type room and

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<v Speaker 1>sit down and started looking and stuff. What were the

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<v Speaker 1>pictures of? Most of them are shot from the airplane

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<v Speaker 1>from the marriage Yet, yes, when there's locate somebody. So

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<v Speaker 1>they had you that you and the other Ham operators

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<v Speaker 1>looking over photos that they had taken to see if

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<v Speaker 1>you could spot the wreck. Yep, that seems kind of

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<v Speaker 1>seems kind of odd. Do you do you have any

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<v Speaker 1>idea why they would ask you guys to do that

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<v Speaker 1>in particular, Well, they're trying to get see if we

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<v Speaker 1>recognize anything that we might have seen from the air

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<v Speaker 1>and their postures and the thing about it is they

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<v Speaker 1>they took a lot of pictures and did find that

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<v Speaker 1>I think another plane they had been lost several before

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<v Speaker 1>upter in the ice. M hm. I don't know exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what that when there was the understood the did located

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<v Speaker 1>another plane, but it wasn't the one we were looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned you mentioned Don Crawford, who was the

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<v Speaker 1>first person that you mentioned. Uh, swamp Fox was his handle,

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 1>swamp Fox. Do you remember his name? Not all hand

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I slipsin? Do you buy any chance? Do

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<v Speaker 1>you have a diary or any records from nineteen seventy two? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't died, had family problems and divorce and been

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<v Speaker 1>married everything else, and I I haven't. I've got a

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<v Speaker 1>radio upstairs and attitude my work of get death boot

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<v Speaker 1>out of it. And when when you heard this transmission?

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<v Speaker 1>Where in California? What city were you living in? I

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>was living in Due City, just out of Boreville, California.

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 1>I had an Antennada built and I talked all over

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<v Speaker 1>the world. Was it so? After they talked that, the

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Air Force interviewed you guys. What the What Major Stalker,

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<v Speaker 1>who was leading the search command, said was that they

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<v Speaker 1>all believed the HAM operators that you guys were telling

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<v Speaker 1>the truth, but they thought that the transmission was likely

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<v Speaker 1>a hoax. What what do you think about that? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>they they tried telling me that they was hoax. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't right, But dang about it is. There was too

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<v Speaker 1>many of us heard it, and I wonder snow connected.

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<v Speaker 1>There was one old man that wi this. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he lived in Olive Hers or somewhere over there, and

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<v Speaker 1>he took an he swore him down that we wish

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<v Speaker 1>trying trying to pull a hoax, and then after he

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<v Speaker 1>heard what went on Nipture, he wanted to know more

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<v Speaker 1>about it too. I've still got I still got part

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<v Speaker 1>of that radio upstairs in the attic. I agree if

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<v Speaker 1>I could, if I could record it backwards, sure would

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<v Speaker 1>for you. So you still have part of the radio

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<v Speaker 1>receiver that you used when he received the transmission. I

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<v Speaker 1>talked from California to South Korea. I talked to uh

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 1>ships off the coast of uh Alaska. I talked to

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<v Speaker 1>ships and boats. Uh yeah, it was thank got for Korea.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Curio Korea. At U S. Pennuccio took a

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<v Speaker 1>ship years ago. They if it's a hoax, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to know who where? And Hawaiian because of what I

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:39.160
<v Speaker 1>heard was somebody in stress warned out, huh. Well, the tower,

0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.439
<v Speaker 1>the radio tower that you built, do you remember how

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:46.080
<v Speaker 1>tall it was or any details about it? That dantanna

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:53.440
<v Speaker 1>you and the top of a cedar tree. Uh, probably

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.879
<v Speaker 1>a hundred pitch foot in here. And I apologize to

0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>ask this again, but when you first picked up the

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.919
<v Speaker 1>plane trans us and that was via the hand receiver,

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, it was only hand receiver. But it was

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>on channel nine, which is CB channel. Interesting, Okay, I

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.520
<v Speaker 1>had a habit. In fact, a lot of C beers

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.399
<v Speaker 1>had to have it everything. We decided to change channel.

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 1>You go by channel line and wait a few minutes.

0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.120
<v Speaker 1>See if there was anybody want to help, or maybe

0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 1>somebody run out of gas, maybe some man of flat

0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.920
<v Speaker 1>I could I could pick that up on the radio.

0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.040
<v Speaker 1>I went. I went by channel nine. I think I

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.960
<v Speaker 1>probably come off of twenty four or someone in them

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 1>our other channels. I went by a channel nine and

0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I heard this. He was he was in dressed, he

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>was hutting through the mouth southwest of Alaska, of Juneral

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.160
<v Speaker 1>and he needed help. And I thought Junior was way

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 1>upon the other end Asamashka, and I was wrong. Have

0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 1>you ever been interviewed by a journalist before about this? Nope,

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.240
<v Speaker 1>So almost fifty years later, this is the very first

0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.119
<v Speaker 1>time you've ever been interviewed about this. I've got a

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 1>phone call here about a week ago. I want to

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 1>know if I was a joke Katman Davis talking about

0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 1>and on radio. You know, one of the things since

0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.640
<v Speaker 1>we're airing the show is that we're asking people for help.

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 1>And I had one listener who helped me figure out

0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.920
<v Speaker 1>that it was Donald not Ronald, so Don Crawford and um.

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 1>And then another listener who found you, and which is

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>which is amazing because I've been looking for the longest

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 1>time to try to speak to anybody, and like I said,

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 1>you're you're You're the very last ham who's still alive.

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 1>So if you, if you, if you, if you got

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 1>a call all from Rancor. Yeah, the guy I worked for,

0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 1>his son is the one that called me and wanted

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.639
<v Speaker 1>to know if I was the one they was talking about.

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Uh huh and uh told me, yeah, I didn't. I

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 1>was there Buka for that thing. I want to find

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>out if they valiant. Well what an experience. I'm really

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 1>happy that I found you. I I like I said,

0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.919
<v Speaker 1>you're the last one who is alive. And as far

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.320
<v Speaker 1>as I could tell, nobody ever recorded an interview with

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.879
<v Speaker 1>any of the others, and nobody recorded an interview with you,

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.480
<v Speaker 1>So it's a little little piece of history. I'm glad

0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.440
<v Speaker 1>I had a chance to talk with you. Is is

0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.840
<v Speaker 1>there anything else that you remember or any questions that

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 1>you want to ask me? If you find out something

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I want to know, Yes, sir, I will call you. Yeah,

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 1>I kind of shot maybe they found something. Well, I'm

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.399
<v Speaker 1>looking for it. True. They kid told me wanting to

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.720
<v Speaker 1>know if I was to warn from l ask you

0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:13.920
<v Speaker 1>they were looking for well cool, Okay, I appreciate it. Joe,

0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.439
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know whoo who was now? Thank you by.

0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.400
<v Speaker 1>You can reach us my phone at one eight three

0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.040
<v Speaker 1>three m I A tips. That's one eight three three

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 1>six four two eight four seven seven again one eight

0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:40.159
<v Speaker 1>three three six four two eight four seven seven, or

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 1>you can reach us via email at tips at i

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.680
<v Speaker 1>heeart media dot com. That's tips, t I P s

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.199
<v Speaker 1>at i heeart media dot com. Ben Bowen is our

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:54.280
<v Speaker 1>executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer, Chris Brown

0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 1>is our assistant producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer.

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Sam T. Garden is our research as assistant. And I'm

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.400
<v Speaker 1>your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. You can find

0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.399
<v Speaker 1>me on Twitter at at John Wallzac. J O n

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:12.359
<v Speaker 1>W A l c z A K special thanks to

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.399
<v Speaker 1>Ann Shepherd and Joe Tatum. Thank you also to the

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>couple in Wyoming who connected me with Joe. They declined

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 1>to be named on The show Missing in Alaska is

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.119
<v Speaker 1>a co production of i Heeart Media and Greenfork Media.