Speaker 1: From my Heart Media. This is Missing in Alaska, the
Speaker 1: story of two congressmen who vanished in nine two and
Speaker 1: my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, John Waalzac. At the end of every episode,
Speaker 1: I assigned what some lovingly call homework. Ways you can
Speaker 1: help move this story forward and guess what you have.
Speaker 1: I've heard from so many of you, and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate your help. In episode two, I asked you to
Speaker 1: help me find the Ham radio operators who heard a
Speaker 1: mysterious transmission that allegedly came from the Beggage Box plane.
Speaker 1: The day it disappeared. I knew that two of the
Speaker 1: Ham operators were dead, but I wasn't sure about the
Speaker 1: other four. Then I started to hear from you, our listeners.
Speaker 1: One person who emailed us was Anne Shepherd of Abington, Maryland,
Speaker 1: and did some sleuthing and figured out that one of
Speaker 1: the Hams, Ronald Crawford, was actually Donald Crawford. Newspapers misreported
Speaker 1: his name in nineteen seventy two. Thanks to Anne, our
Speaker 1: assistant producer Chris Brown was able to speak with Don's
Speaker 1: son Bain, who clearly remembers the incident. He said his
Speaker 1: father heard the alleged pilot say the plane was quote sliding.
Speaker 1: After Anne Leeds continued to flow in, including one from Wyoming,
Speaker 1: where a couple heard my call for help. They told
Speaker 1: me they knew a man named Joe Tatum. He lived
Speaker 1: in an assisted living facility. He might be the Joe Tatum,
Speaker 1: one of the Hams who heard the mystery transmission. They
Speaker 1: called him. Turns out he is the Joe Tatum, the
Speaker 1: last person alive who heard the transmission that's find the plane.
Speaker 1: Tatum is eighty three. He lives in Evanston, Wyoming. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me what did you hear? I heard a
Speaker 1: play a pilot and a plane more a help? And
Speaker 1: what did he What did he say? Do you remember
Speaker 1: what he said? He said he talks to me. HU
Speaker 1: didn't through the miles south west a juno Alaska, and
Speaker 1: I made I made a map and had everything backwards
Speaker 1: because I did not know that there anything about Alaska.
Speaker 1: I just picked it up on the radio and I
Speaker 1: went from here. And did you actually speak with him
Speaker 1: or did you just hear the transmission? Well or the
Speaker 1: transmission but you didn't have a chance to directly speak
Speaker 1: with him. No, I didn't die somewhere huddering through the
Speaker 1: miles from Juno, Alaska in the air, and did he
Speaker 1: say anything else that he did? He say the plane
Speaker 1: was in distress. Yep, he said that he didn't see
Speaker 1: the plane was distressed. He said he was talking to me.
Speaker 1: I didn't brew the mouth southwest of Juno, and that
Speaker 1: they went down and hit hit the rocks and he
Speaker 1: had three casualties. And there they said the plane was slipping.
Speaker 1: That's all I heard, and then we lost it. Do
Speaker 1: you remember about how long you heard these transmissions for?
Speaker 1: Was it a few minutes? Was it? Was it several
Speaker 1: times over the course of an hour? It was so
Speaker 1: probably about five minutes all total at the time hearing
Speaker 1: him trying to talk to him and the plane going down,
Speaker 1: So you heard him while he was in the air,
Speaker 1: and then you say after he crossed he ever then
Speaker 1: after he crashes, because we heard I heard him beIN
Speaker 1: here first and he when he said he was probably
Speaker 1: a hundred thirty miles southwest a Juno. And the next
Speaker 1: the next thing I knew, he said the planet. Hey,
Speaker 1: he had hit the rocks and he was uh, had
Speaker 1: three casualties. And that's all we can tell you did
Speaker 1: you get a name? No? He he said them, and
Speaker 1: he had three he had uh passion drucon, he had
Speaker 1: three casualties. And didn't you no name, no name or
Speaker 1: nothing like that? All we all I heard was just
Speaker 1: stress on the radio. Did you hear any tale number? Nope?
Speaker 1: And so I found your name in an old newspaper article.
Speaker 1: And as far as I could tell, um, there were
Speaker 1: I think four to five other men who heard this transmission. Um,
Speaker 1: do you mind if I passed their names by you
Speaker 1: and you tell me if you remember any of them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: go ahead, al Miller, if you find that plane? How
Speaker 1: did that not? Absolutely? Sir? Yes, Um, al Miller, Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not Victor Parker, Roy Harris. See. Most of these
Speaker 1: guys on the radio then was all under both pretense.
Speaker 1: Hey give their r name, And we didn't know who
Speaker 1: was who until we most of us men in that plane.
Speaker 1: When you say under false pretense, you mean just because
Speaker 1: people didn't have official licenses. Yes, Oh, I wasn't a
Speaker 1: true hand operator. I had. I had a CB radio
Speaker 1: strapped down to where I could talk to each about
Speaker 1: anybody I want to do. So, when you picked up
Speaker 1: this transmission, did you pick it up on a HAM
Speaker 1: radio or on a CB radio. I picked it up
Speaker 1: on my HAM receiver and most of them was heard
Speaker 1: on the TB radio. Gotcha, se So just to be clear,
Speaker 1: you you picked it up on on a HAM receiver though, yes, um,
Speaker 1: And then so you know obviously know more about radio
Speaker 1: than me. But you you picked it up on the
Speaker 1: HAM and a CB radio or just on the ham
Speaker 1: he I had it on. I had it on both.
Speaker 1: And the thing about a dish. Uh, he must have
Speaker 1: had channel line in his radio in that plane because
Speaker 1: we had we heard and playing clearer mm hm and
Speaker 1: so um, do you remember any other details about what
Speaker 1: he said? I've slept shimping. And so you said that
Speaker 1: you made a map? Was that just you pulled out
Speaker 1: a map of Alaska and you and you were looking. Oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't bu on the map of Alaska. I sat
Speaker 1: down and dragged me a piece of paper, on a
Speaker 1: piece of paper where he was proxiling Matt where he
Speaker 1: was going, and I had it backwards because I didn't
Speaker 1: know that Juno was on the lower end and not
Speaker 1: down on the where he was at. I picked it
Speaker 1: all back for Joash kind of dumbfounded over y I
Speaker 1: feel a little stupid after I learn minute that that
Speaker 1: Juno was way down here next door the United States,
Speaker 1: and Alaska was up the end of the day was
Speaker 1: further north. Yeah, John is pretty low and if you're right,
Speaker 1: I think you know most people unless you look at
Speaker 1: a map, but you think Alaska and what you think
Speaker 1: of is the northern part, and Juno's, you know, all
Speaker 1: the way further down. But um, so, so you know
Speaker 1: you said that he mentioned being did you say a
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty or a hundred and thirty miles southwest
Speaker 1: of Juno? I heard him say, talxed me a hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty just to be clear, yep, And um did
Speaker 1: he give you an I'm sorry After I got up
Speaker 1: there and and realized I was stupid that David was backwards,
Speaker 1: I kind of realized that he he wasn't where I
Speaker 1: thought he was because Joana mat back which they took
Speaker 1: the little maps that drawed. The Air Force has got
Speaker 1: it somewhere up there, and so the map that you drew.
Speaker 1: Did he give you any other directions or indication other
Speaker 1: than just saying he was a hundred and thirty miles
Speaker 1: southwest of Juneo? No, he didn't have much time to
Speaker 1: give us anything. What did his what did he what
Speaker 1: did he sound like? What was his person? Did he
Speaker 1: sound upset? Was he angry? He needed help? He needed
Speaker 1: help because you could kill his voice and everything that
Speaker 1: he was in trouble and we lost him. Do you
Speaker 1: remember the last thing that you heard from him? I
Speaker 1: think when he said that drew the mouth southwest of Junio, Alaska.
Speaker 1: And so after you heard this transmission, who did you contact?
Speaker 1: What happened afterward? He it rocks and the plane was slipping.
Speaker 1: He had three castles, And did you call the police
Speaker 1: or who did you contact? We called Camp b Or
Speaker 1: I think it was they are based and they said
Speaker 1: they had it all already, and the next morning they
Speaker 1: had us meat at the air base and get on
Speaker 1: a plane and light and what was that experience like this?
Speaker 1: It was a plane ready I've never had. And they
Speaker 1: they throwed the seats out of that big plane. They
Speaker 1: throw it all the seats out of it, lightened it
Speaker 1: up and made room for us to get in it.
Speaker 1: It was a fue legit. So they used And you said,
Speaker 1: the other men that flew up with you to Alaska,
Speaker 1: did you know any of them? Or were they all
Speaker 1: new to you. I thank Swamp Fox, I think was
Speaker 1: one of them moved with us, and I knew. I
Speaker 1: knew of him because I talked to him several times
Speaker 1: and when I went out when I won't buy Channel
Speaker 1: nine picked up. The last little part of what was
Speaker 1: going on, Uh, swamp Fox is when I went to
Speaker 1: first and I think Don Crawford, out of Mary Jane
Speaker 1: was one of the boys. Mm hmye h and uh
Speaker 1: Don this type of person. You better be right because
Speaker 1: he don't want a much of bullshit. H he was,
Speaker 1: he was, he was drawing the radio. He picked it
Speaker 1: up from Channel nine and he hildered at me when
Speaker 1: because I'd already went by Channel nine when I first
Speaker 1: picked it up. And then I was trying to get
Speaker 1: somebody done help me because you can only hear so
Speaker 1: much in our radio. And the guy they did need help.
Speaker 1: And I still think he's between Juno and get your
Speaker 1: can or somewhere down in there. And so when you
Speaker 1: went to Alaska, did they were they just asking you
Speaker 1: a million questions? Or what was that process like? In Alaska?
Speaker 1: We said for eighteen hours looking at pictures they had
Speaker 1: taken already with the planes, seeing if we recognize anything. Wait,
Speaker 1: they they had you look at pictures of of what
Speaker 1: gives We just went in an office type room and
Speaker 1: sit down and started looking and stuff. What were the
Speaker 1: pictures of? Most of them are shot from the airplane
Speaker 1: from the marriage Yet, yes, when there's locate somebody. So
Speaker 1: they had you that you and the other Ham operators
Speaker 1: looking over photos that they had taken to see if
Speaker 1: you could spot the wreck. Yep, that seems kind of
Speaker 1: seems kind of odd. Do you do you have any
Speaker 1: idea why they would ask you guys to do that
Speaker 1: in particular, Well, they're trying to get see if we
Speaker 1: recognize anything that we might have seen from the air
Speaker 1: and their postures and the thing about it is they
Speaker 1: they took a lot of pictures and did find that
Speaker 1: I think another plane they had been lost several before
Speaker 1: upter in the ice. M hm. I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what that when there was the understood the did located
Speaker 1: another plane, but it wasn't the one we were looking for.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned you mentioned Don Crawford, who was the
Speaker 1: first person that you mentioned. Uh, swamp Fox was his handle,
Speaker 1: swamp Fox. Do you remember his name? Not all hand
Speaker 1: I don't I slipsin? Do you buy any chance? Do
Speaker 1: you have a diary or any records from nineteen seventy two? No,
Speaker 1: I haven't died, had family problems and divorce and been
Speaker 1: married everything else, and I I haven't. I've got a
Speaker 1: radio upstairs and attitude my work of get death boot
Speaker 1: out of it. And when when you heard this transmission?
Speaker 1: Where in California? What city were you living in? I
Speaker 1: was living in Due City, just out of Boreville, California.
Speaker 1: I had an Antennada built and I talked all over
Speaker 1: the world. Was it so? After they talked that, the
Speaker 1: Air Force interviewed you guys. What the What Major Stalker,
Speaker 1: who was leading the search command, said was that they
Speaker 1: all believed the HAM operators that you guys were telling
Speaker 1: the truth, but they thought that the transmission was likely
Speaker 1: a hoax. What what do you think about that? Well,
Speaker 1: they they tried telling me that they was hoax. It
Speaker 1: wasn't right, But dang about it is. There was too
Speaker 1: many of us heard it, and I wonder snow connected.
Speaker 1: There was one old man that wi this. I think
Speaker 1: he lived in Olive Hers or somewhere over there, and
Speaker 1: he took an he swore him down that we wish
Speaker 1: trying trying to pull a hoax, and then after he
Speaker 1: heard what went on Nipture, he wanted to know more
Speaker 1: about it too. I've still got I still got part
Speaker 1: of that radio upstairs in the attic. I agree if
Speaker 1: I could, if I could record it backwards, sure would
Speaker 1: for you. So you still have part of the radio
Speaker 1: receiver that you used when he received the transmission. I
Speaker 1: talked from California to South Korea. I talked to uh
Speaker 1: ships off the coast of uh Alaska. I talked to
Speaker 1: ships and boats. Uh yeah, it was thank got for Korea.
Speaker 1: That was Curio Korea. At U S. Pennuccio took a
Speaker 1: ship years ago. They if it's a hoax, I want
Speaker 1: to know who where? And Hawaiian because of what I
Speaker 1: heard was somebody in stress warned out, huh. Well, the tower,
Speaker 1: the radio tower that you built, do you remember how
Speaker 1: tall it was or any details about it? That dantanna
Speaker 1: you and the top of a cedar tree. Uh, probably
Speaker 1: a hundred pitch foot in here. And I apologize to
Speaker 1: ask this again, but when you first picked up the
Speaker 1: plane trans us and that was via the hand receiver,
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it was only hand receiver. But it was
Speaker 1: on channel nine, which is CB channel. Interesting, Okay, I
Speaker 1: had a habit. In fact, a lot of C beers
Speaker 1: had to have it everything. We decided to change channel.
Speaker 1: You go by channel line and wait a few minutes.
Speaker 1: See if there was anybody want to help, or maybe
Speaker 1: somebody run out of gas, maybe some man of flat
Speaker 1: I could I could pick that up on the radio.
Speaker 1: I went. I went by channel nine. I think I
Speaker 1: probably come off of twenty four or someone in them
Speaker 1: our other channels. I went by a channel nine and
Speaker 1: I heard this. He was he was in dressed, he
Speaker 1: was hutting through the mouth southwest of Alaska, of Juneral
Speaker 1: and he needed help. And I thought Junior was way
Speaker 1: upon the other end Asamashka, and I was wrong. Have
Speaker 1: you ever been interviewed by a journalist before about this? Nope,
Speaker 1: So almost fifty years later, this is the very first
Speaker 1: time you've ever been interviewed about this. I've got a
Speaker 1: phone call here about a week ago. I want to
Speaker 1: know if I was a joke Katman Davis talking about
Speaker 1: and on radio. You know, one of the things since
Speaker 1: we're airing the show is that we're asking people for help.
Speaker 1: And I had one listener who helped me figure out
Speaker 1: that it was Donald not Ronald, so Don Crawford and um.
Speaker 1: And then another listener who found you, and which is
Speaker 1: which is amazing because I've been looking for the longest
Speaker 1: time to try to speak to anybody, and like I said,
Speaker 1: you're you're You're the very last ham who's still alive.
Speaker 1: So if you, if you, if you, if you got
Speaker 1: a call all from Rancor. Yeah, the guy I worked for,
Speaker 1: his son is the one that called me and wanted
Speaker 1: to know if I was the one they was talking about.
Speaker 1: Uh huh and uh told me, yeah, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: was there Buka for that thing. I want to find
Speaker 1: out if they valiant. Well what an experience. I'm really
Speaker 1: happy that I found you. I I like I said,
Speaker 1: you're the last one who is alive. And as far
Speaker 1: as I could tell, nobody ever recorded an interview with
Speaker 1: any of the others, and nobody recorded an interview with you,
Speaker 1: So it's a little little piece of history. I'm glad
Speaker 1: I had a chance to talk with you. Is is
Speaker 1: there anything else that you remember or any questions that
Speaker 1: you want to ask me? If you find out something
Speaker 1: I want to know, Yes, sir, I will call you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of shot maybe they found something. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: looking for it. True. They kid told me wanting to
Speaker 1: know if I was to warn from l ask you
Speaker 1: they were looking for well cool, Okay, I appreciate it. Joe,
Speaker 1: I know, I know whoo who was now? Thank you by.
Speaker 1: You can reach us my phone at one eight three
Speaker 1: three m I A tips. That's one eight three three
Speaker 1: six four two eight four seven seven again one eight
Speaker 1: three three six four two eight four seven seven, or
Speaker 1: you can reach us via email at tips at i
Speaker 1: heeart media dot com. That's tips, t I P s
Speaker 1: at i heeart media dot com. Ben Bowen is our
Speaker 1: executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer, Chris Brown
Speaker 1: is our assistant producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer.
Speaker 1: Sam T. Garden is our research as assistant. And I'm
Speaker 1: your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. You can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at at John Wallzac. J O n
Speaker 1: W A l c z A K special thanks to
Speaker 1: Ann Shepherd and Joe Tatum. Thank you also to the
Speaker 1: couple in Wyoming who connected me with Joe. They declined
Speaker 1: to be named on The show Missing in Alaska is
Speaker 1: a co production of i Heeart Media and Greenfork Media.