Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast.
Speaker 2: You can't predict anything.
Speaker 1: The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by first Light.
Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting
Speaker 1: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every
Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light
Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I t
Speaker 1: E dot com. Everybody, here's a quick Camo news flash
Speaker 1: which Phil's just gonna jam into the episode. Camo's Phil's
Speaker 1: favorite subject. People don't realize that, so he's probably gonna
Speaker 1: want to jam this in right up top. On social media,
Speaker 1: you might have been seeing lately that me and some
Speaker 1: of the other guys that hunt with have I've been
Speaker 1: working on testing a new camouflage pattern. And because of
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff with how things go and you're
Speaker 1: developing an idea and working on it, people will ask
Speaker 1: about it. They'll be like, oh, hey, what's that new
Speaker 1: camo and is this going to do that and this
Speaker 1: and that, and we just couldn't talk about it. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to see them all cryptic. We just couldn't
Speaker 1: talk about it because we're still you know, working on
Speaker 1: and testing and developing the idea. Anyways, now I can
Speaker 1: finally explain it because so many people have asked about it.
Speaker 1: It's called Serka coming out from first Light, and it
Speaker 1: is the ultimate Western big game Camo pattern for you,
Speaker 1: you know, dedicated Western being Gabe hunters. So if you
Speaker 1: think back on the history of Camo, well, not really
Speaker 1: the deep history, the recent history of Camo, Okay, you
Speaker 1: have all these conventional mimicry patterns which attempt to make
Speaker 1: the where it look like you're part of the environment.
Speaker 1: I think back to the old days when like Camo
Speaker 1: would be like sticks or leaves, you know, and you
Speaker 1: look good to the human eye on the shelf because
Speaker 1: you're thinking, what's more natural than a stick. However, when
Speaker 1: you view that stuff at any realistic distance, those overly
Speaker 1: complex patterns, they just solidify into a into a coherent shape, okay,
Speaker 1: which just makes you more obvious to game. Because you
Speaker 1: look at it up close, you think it looks like sticks.
Speaker 1: But you get any distance away and it looks like
Speaker 1: a huge you just look like a dark human shape blob.
Speaker 1: So you're thinking it's sweet but it's it's not how
Speaker 1: it works. Like a deer doesn't look at you and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, a big pile of sticks and leaves
Speaker 1: over there, standing out weirdly from its surrounding environment. Right, well,
Speaker 1: Sarica uses it's gonna sound fancy, but an optic field
Speaker 1: disruption to maximize concealment. It seems counterintuitive, the idea of it,
Speaker 1: until you consider it, like a tiger or a jaguar, right,
Speaker 1: and look how they blend into their environments. So now
Speaker 1: they're gonna they're not covered in twigs and leaves. Sarka
Speaker 1: emulates the predator strategy by using that same like a
Speaker 1: limited palette, like you know, tiger two colors, a limited
Speaker 1: palette of strongly contrasting tones with these sort of these
Speaker 1: structures that appear to crack apart in order to break
Speaker 1: up your outline. Saraha does not make the wear look
Speaker 1: like a tree of rock. It makes you look like
Speaker 1: nothing at all, no discernible pattern. It's great for you know,
Speaker 1: sagebrush country, alpine tundra, everything in between, especially those sparse
Speaker 1: landscapes with minimal cover where conventional cameos are really just
Speaker 1: going to turn you into that human shaped blob, so
Speaker 1: check it out. One a half second of confusion makes
Speaker 1: the difference between punch and a tag and getting skunked.
Speaker 1: You will want to reach for Saraha cambon and now
Speaker 1: here's what you gotta do. If you want to find
Speaker 1: out more, go to first light dot com and sign
Speaker 1: up for notifications about when Sarica gear is available this spring.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody, we're in Uh, we're in our remote field
Speaker 1: studio in South Texas, maybe forty minutes from Brownsville, Texas,
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes from Raymondville, Texas, four hours and ten minutes
Speaker 1: from Austin, Texas.
Speaker 4: In about four hundred yards from our last remote studio
Speaker 4: and four hundred yards from our last remote studio. And
Speaker 4: today we're in we're in what I would call a
Speaker 4: post rut environment. Deer seasons deer season is generally closed
Speaker 4: unless you have We're not deer hunting, but deer season's closed.
Speaker 4: But I think that some uh, there's some kind of
Speaker 4: deal with depredation permits where depredation permits are still valid,
Speaker 4: but it's generally shut down to the point where we're
Speaker 4: watching a buck who is packing around one antler and we.
Speaker 1: Just saw three bucks. One still had two antlers, two
Speaker 1: had zero antlers, And we're just basically going to run
Speaker 1: this podcast until that antler falls off, and then Seth's
Speaker 1: gonna run over and retrieve it. It's windy. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: gus will win. There's your one antler buck.
Speaker 5: Yeah. He is like very curious about what's happening over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's probably never been to a live podcast.
Speaker 5: He's not looking at us though, Oh.
Speaker 1: Oh, he's looking their direction. Yeah, I can see a
Speaker 1: couple of buzzards. Just to set the scene, Krinn just
Speaker 1: tried to catch an armadillo, but ambassador.
Speaker 2: Called Yeah, just called in. Have Alena. That about ran
Speaker 2: is over.
Speaker 1: That was a voice of special guest Cameron Haynes, who
Speaker 1: felt that Karinn in pursuit of the armadillo. He felt
Speaker 1: that she hesitated.
Speaker 3: You never see a lion mountain lion halfway chase something
Speaker 3: and be like, oh no, I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: You know you're right, that's true.
Speaker 3: When when the lion goes he's going, he's I mean,
Speaker 3: there's no hesitation.
Speaker 6: I didn't want to hurt him.
Speaker 1: He's like the lions like get hurt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lions don't have empathy.
Speaker 1: So she hesitated, and then we earlier tested the metal
Speaker 1: of uh Seth and Max and found out that they
Speaker 1: lack metal. I think when someone's metal, you're testing their
Speaker 1: m E T t l E. Right, yeah, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: not testing their m E t A L.
Speaker 2: I think we need to review the footage because I
Speaker 2: think Max.
Speaker 5: Did a lot more jumping than I definitely did.
Speaker 1: When you're doing an experiment where you play a just
Speaker 1: we're going to place more distress calls on him in here.
Speaker 1: We did an experiment where you play a distress call
Speaker 1: to a pack of Have a Lina's. And I was
Speaker 1: telling these guys that my experience, twenty five percent of
Speaker 1: the time they'll charge, and and I spooped him before
Speaker 1: I could get where I wanted to get, played the
Speaker 1: distress call and we got one to he didn't quite charge.
Speaker 1: He was pissed. Yeah, And he came in again. And
Speaker 1: he came in and tested Max's metal and found it
Speaker 1: to be soft, found the metal to be malleable.
Speaker 7: I'm just saying. I was filming and I was looking
Speaker 7: at the screen and then I look up and he's
Speaker 7: like right there, and I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 3: His metal is aluminum foiler his M E T T
Speaker 3: L E S O F T.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is probably not gonna work because we're making
Speaker 1: a shitload of nose.
Speaker 3: But percent of time it works every time.
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna talk about a bunch of stop. First,
Speaker 1: we're gonna hit this. Let me see how loud this is.
Speaker 1: So we did squeaky Jack. That was squeaky Jack on
Speaker 1: the havevelina that responded, And right now we're gonna hit
Speaker 1: I'm thinking shelter beell max shelterbell, yeah, or TN T
Speaker 1: TN T praid of TNT, which would be a rabbit
Speaker 1: in distress. You know here this is a we're uh,
Speaker 1: we're using a Lucky Duck revolt caller, and we're in
Speaker 1: the just the sounds that come with it. And I'm
Speaker 1: in the cotton tail folder, and within the cotton tail folder,
Speaker 1: I have cotton ball like bawl like b a w l,
Speaker 1: cry like you're crying, not like I have like your
Speaker 1: applying makeup. I have shelter belt, TNT, silly rabbit, high
Speaker 1: pitch on and on down to bugs, bunny and skid row.
Speaker 1: We're gonna lay out some TNT we're gonna do. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk over it. I think I got it fire
Speaker 1: enough a way we can talk over it. We're gonna
Speaker 1: do Volume ten.
Speaker 5: Just don't turn it towards us.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do the turnaround. And we're gonna hitch
Speaker 1: TNT and see what we got. Oh, we can easily
Speaker 1: talk over that. That's ridiculous. Okay, We're gonna let that
Speaker 1: run a while. No, with that on, I need.
Speaker 2: Stay ready with that long len.
Speaker 5: There's no way if a Kyle comes ripping in here,
Speaker 5: there's no way.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 5: I don't think I can get on with that big ones.
Speaker 2: You might maybe it's.
Speaker 1: Like I was saying, Join the Day by Max Barta,
Speaker 1: Seth Morris, myself, cringe Schneider, Hog Hog Slayer, cringe Sneider
Speaker 1: from the last time we were in our studio down
Speaker 1: the down the row there and Cameron Haynes, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna do a couple of little quick talking points now, Sath.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're aware of this. I've been
Speaker 1: meaning to tell you this. A listener wrote in and
Speaker 1: and uh, it's afropros of being in the outdoor studio
Speaker 1: because when we were in our other studio down the
Speaker 1: way there, you did you were set in the scene
Speaker 1: similar to how we just set the scene now, and
Speaker 1: you set the scene with a rattling sequence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1: The gentleman was, how's the wind killing us?
Speaker 2: The wind's not great.
Speaker 8: It's not great, but maybe we can just be cognizant
Speaker 8: of where we turn our heads sometimes.
Speaker 1: A gentleman wrote in that he was listening to that
Speaker 1: episode and during your rattling sequence, a deer ran by.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sent that and I thought that it was
Speaker 1: really cool, And then I realized he was driving, which
Speaker 1: makes me think it was purely coincidental. I don't mean
Speaker 1: to not.
Speaker 2: I don't mean well. When I was reading that, Karin
Speaker 2: forward that email on it. I had thought that I
Speaker 2: had rattled in a book either too. I read it
Speaker 2: twice before I realized you didn't rattle a lot, and
Speaker 2: then yeah, then realized he was driving.
Speaker 6: I didn't realize that until after I forwarded it.
Speaker 1: Another piece of listener feedback that's appropriate because we're in
Speaker 1: hog country is we reported repeatless. Let me walking back
Speaker 1: through some history on the pig called the lipstick Pig
Speaker 1: or floppy we are. A long time ago did a
Speaker 1: call out where we were looking for great trail cam photos,
Speaker 1: crazy trail cam photos. And a guy writes in and
Speaker 1: he sends in a picture of a pig with what
Speaker 1: I said, looked like he had his lipstick out, So
Speaker 1: a pig that was I felt that the pig looked aroused.
Speaker 1: And we then did a clarification that not that krins
Speaker 1: particularly sensitive, but we did a thing that like a
Speaker 1: great trail cam photo, a crazy trail cam photo is
Speaker 1: not that the pig has his lipstick out. That's just
Speaker 1: you know, and we were trying to define what we
Speaker 1: meant by a great trail camp photo. He wrote in
Speaker 1: to say, you got it all wrong. It stuck out.
Speaker 1: It's always like that. So we had a veterinarian on
Speaker 1: We had a veterinarian on the show Divina doctor Divina
Speaker 1: Spencer from Virginia Beach, and she told us all about
Speaker 1: an ailment.
Speaker 5: Paramosis. Yes, she told us.
Speaker 1: If you listen to that episode, you heard it. She
Speaker 1: told us about parafemosis, and parafemosis is that. And she
Speaker 1: has dealt with this frequently, as she explained on the show,
Speaker 1: She's dealt with this frequently, or I shouldn't say frequently.
Speaker 1: She's dealt with this with dogs and talked about how
Speaker 1: to treat with dogs and then worst case scenarios they've
Speaker 1: had to do like a penis removal on the dog
Speaker 1: and sort of cut things and tie things in place
Speaker 1: and basically makes like a little like a.
Speaker 5: Little pee hole at the hide for it.
Speaker 1: Well, then the guy writes back, once we clarified that,
Speaker 1: he then writes back that he is gone and shot floppy.
Speaker 1: The last photo we get a floppy is it laying
Speaker 1: on his garage floor? And when they skinned it and
Speaker 1: butchered it, he found that it's bladder was quote I
Speaker 1: want to get this right, very very quote hugely full
Speaker 1: of urine, really hugely full of urine. And he he
Speaker 1: he feels that it was so full, alarmingly full, that
Speaker 1: perhaps that he couldn't urinate unless he had a high pressure. Right,
Speaker 1: you know what they call that? Uh?
Speaker 2: P h O What does that mean?
Speaker 5: Piss hard on?
Speaker 3: Oh there we go, like when you wake up in
Speaker 3: the morning.
Speaker 1: Sure had a piss Sure.
Speaker 2: So here, guys, I'm looking at a picture.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of him sitting here in
Speaker 1: the garage.
Speaker 8: Yeah, for our audience, ptill put this up on video.
Speaker 8: But yeah, I think a measuring.
Speaker 1: Stick, So I wrong I would have put that picture up.
Speaker 1: That would have done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bad deal.
Speaker 6: Yeah Steve, maybe you put this on behind you too, But.
Speaker 2: I put it up and I put the wrong photo up.
Speaker 1: I was going to do further reporting on my uh,
Speaker 1: phantom groin pain.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get into it. We've covered it.
Speaker 6: But somebody wrote in about it.
Speaker 1: Multiple people about my phantom grind pain, and I don't
Speaker 1: need to get into it anymore.
Speaker 2: I'm all better.
Speaker 1: Now here's someone rolled in and this is an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: I was telling the story of my father attempting to
Speaker 1: neuter his cat, fig the cat. He tamed a feral
Speaker 1: cat with fish heads and it became the family cat.
Speaker 1: And one day he wanted to get it neutered, and
Speaker 1: he took it to a hog farmer body of his
Speaker 1: who's neutered hundreds of hogs and figged and they put
Speaker 1: it in a gunny sack and cut a hole in
Speaker 1: the gunny sack and attempted to neuter it, and the
Speaker 1: cat fought him off, as you never heard you want
Speaker 1: to talk about a distress call. And it only lasted
Speaker 1: like a short period of time, and they're like, never mind,
Speaker 1: And then the cat lived.
Speaker 2: The rest of his life.
Speaker 1: Intact, the guy wrote in saying that a veterinarian wrote
Speaker 1: in twenty seven years as a veterinarian, and he has
Speaker 1: neutered untold numbers of tomcats. And he also goes, I'm
Speaker 1: to say I have spent my entire career listening to
Speaker 1: men tell me. I've spent my entire career listening to
Speaker 1: men tell me they'll just stick that tomcat in the
Speaker 1: boot and do it themselves instead of paying me to
Speaker 1: do it. Usually the wife looks at him, then me,
Speaker 1: then rolls her eyes and schedules the appointment. I have
Speaker 1: never once known a person from this generation or the prior,
Speaker 1: who could neuter a cat without veterinary help. Cattle, hogs, sheep, goats, horses,
Speaker 1: no problem, Cats, no way. It was refreshing to hear
Speaker 1: a more realistic take on the topic.
Speaker 2: Man, it would be intimidated to do a horse. I
Speaker 2: feel like.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't do a cat. Well, you're an honest man.
Speaker 1: Also related to Texas, we have there's a news item,
Speaker 1: and this news item was reporting the Wall Street Journal,
Speaker 1: and it was about I'd be curious to get your
Speaker 1: opinion about this, anyone who's got opinion about this. I'd
Speaker 1: be happy to hear it. I'm undecided. A county in Texas, Okay,
Speaker 1: what county is this? Brizonia County, Texas, south of Houston.
Speaker 1: There is a plan from a biomedical research firm that
Speaker 1: owns a five hundred acre parcel. Okay, so, Brizoni County,
Speaker 1: south Houston, Texas. Biomedical research firm Charles River Laboratories, all right.
Speaker 1: They own a five hundred acre parcel in what sounds
Speaker 1: like a quiet, nice little community. Their plan is.
Speaker 3: To build.
Speaker 1: A facility that will house forty three thousand, two hundred
Speaker 1: monkeys that then can be sold for animal research.
Speaker 5: Locals.
Speaker 1: I want you to take a guess locals are excited
Speaker 1: a or be not excited.
Speaker 5: I'm glad I don't live there.
Speaker 1: Forty three thousand primates Okay, Now, so you can guess
Speaker 1: that Pete is not crazy about it. The chosen site
Speaker 1: borders land owned and protected by the US Fish and
Speaker 1: Wildlife Service, the Nature Conservancy, and the San Bernard National
Speaker 1: Wildlife Refuge. Locals affected, including the locals affected, include veterinarians
Speaker 1: and directors of conservation organizations who are now speaking out
Speaker 1: to voice their opposition to the facility. Locals in Brazonia
Speaker 1: County would be a little slice that think they have
Speaker 1: a little slice of Texas, solitaries away from the hub
Speaker 1: of of Houston, and they want to know how much racket?
Speaker 1: How much racket? I'm trying to curious about the sentence.
Speaker 1: How much racket does forty three thousand monkeys make? Wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be how much rackt it?
Speaker 2: No? Is it right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? How much racket is forty three thousand monkeys make?
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're not quiet. A shrimper had that to say.
Speaker 1: He owns eleven hundred acres nearby another neighbor. I thought
Speaker 1: this would be a place to get away from everything.
Speaker 1: Now a monkey farm is my neighbor, says a retired
Speaker 1: veterinarian who owns nine hundred acres. People were about their
Speaker 1: property values plunging. Now here's where you get into this
Speaker 1: whole thing, Like I would figure when I'm not a taxan.
Speaker 2: Far from it.
Speaker 1: But when Texans like to think of Texans, they like
Speaker 1: to think of people doing what they want on their
Speaker 1: own land.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1: Do mass of taxes, Republic of taxes keep Texas weird? No,
Speaker 1: that's not a thing. You know what I'm saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: So this throws you into uh the stosie into a
Speaker 1: bind because on one hand you might fancy yourself like
Speaker 1: a property rights person, but then on the other hand
Speaker 1: you get you throw the nimby thing into it. Not
Speaker 1: that's that the acronym for not in my backyard. So
Speaker 1: you're like, in theory, I'm a pro property rights person,
Speaker 1: but not when it comes to putting monkeys by my house.
Speaker 2: This is just a private company doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a private company doing it. It's not a
Speaker 1: government research facility. But like, I don't judge nimby stuff
Speaker 1: because everybody has a little bit of nimby mentality, but
Speaker 1: it does it creates a problem because if you'd have
Speaker 1: gone previously and asked these individuals.
Speaker 3: If you'd gone to this, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: The guy's probably great, the shrimper that has eleven hundred acres,
Speaker 1: the retired vet that has nine hundred acres. If I'd
Speaker 1: have gone and said knocked on dor and said do
Speaker 1: you feel like people should be able to tell you
Speaker 1: what to do on your property?
Speaker 5: Data said hell no or no?
Speaker 3: They would have said hell no, how they is that?
Speaker 5: It probably a little deeper voice and like, hell no, mine.
Speaker 3: He sounded like it wouldn't have been Biden.
Speaker 2: That's not fine, hell little.
Speaker 5: Man, No, it would have been hail no partner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hell yeah. I kept thinking of Parker Hall and
Speaker 2: he's like ship no man. Yeah he's not from Texas,
Speaker 2: I know, but he's South Yeah, and they all sound
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So uh so this is a stumber. But I can
Speaker 1: tell you that as much as I might be like
Speaker 1: a little bit of a you know, generally simple like
Speaker 1: generally sympathetic two, generally sympathetic to private property rights up
Speaker 1: to the point where you're doing environmental damage to like neighbors.
Speaker 1: Like meaning, if I own a spot and I decide
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dump you know, arsenic in the creek because
Speaker 1: it's my property, and then the guy down the creek
Speaker 1: on the next property's like, dude, you just do arsenic
Speaker 1: in the creek and now it's all over my property.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, But the monkey thing, I don't know anything about
Speaker 1: that game. Well, how would you roll on that you're
Speaker 1: the neighbor of the monkey man?
Speaker 3: I don't want forty three thousand monkeys in my neighborhood.
Speaker 1: So you'd be no, i'd be now.
Speaker 9: I mean, I just have a partner. I just think
Speaker 9: it's inevitable that some of those things are going to
Speaker 9: get out. Yeah, and then what Yeah, well you know
Speaker 9: what the planet of the apes. Yeah, it's not like
Speaker 9: they get out in Montana and they just freeze to death,
Speaker 9: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's put in there because there's a good environment
Speaker 1: for Yeah, they're going to get out down here and
Speaker 1: like can establish a population. This is a This is
Speaker 1: an especially appropriate conversation to have here because if you
Speaker 1: sit here for an hour, you see a monkey, you're
Speaker 1: gonna see three things that did get out, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: which is more than three new guy water buck, we
Speaker 1: saw it.
Speaker 2: We saw a.
Speaker 5: Red letchwa Is that?
Speaker 2: Am I saying that? Right?
Speaker 1: These are all animals that run around in this region,
Speaker 1: not fence from place to place, free range, So stuff
Speaker 1: gets out in Texas. Bigfoot question, is it real?
Speaker 2: No, it's a reasonable question.
Speaker 6: And it's based on that bear Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we covered on the probably the we covered
Speaker 1: on one of the goofiest things ever. Not recap it,
Speaker 1: So listeners who already heard it bear with me. A
Speaker 1: researcher was looking at was trying to find correlations between
Speaker 1: prevalence of bigfoot sightings and abundance of black bears, which
Speaker 1: is fine, Sure, I don't care. And they pointed out
Speaker 1: that the higher density of black bears you have, the
Speaker 1: higher density of bigfoot reportings you have. But then, as
Speaker 1: I postulated, their friend or a colleague or something said,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of pointless that research. So then
Speaker 1: they said, with a seam, with a straight face, they say,
Speaker 1: this could be helpful for bear conservation because you could
Speaker 1: look and see a decline in bigfoot reportings and translate
Speaker 1: that to a decline in black bear numbers. So instead
Speaker 1: of counting black bears, why not just count bigfoot sightings?
Speaker 1: Which felt to me like a stretch. Yeah, that felt
Speaker 1: to me like a I'll just say it. That felt
Speaker 1: like a dumb idea. So no offense to the you know,
Speaker 1: minor offense to the person. Someone wrote in, would you
Speaker 1: consider bigfoot to be a potential.
Speaker 2: Vector for trichinosis? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends that they're herbivorous. They gotta be then no, no, no,
Speaker 1: they're NONI they're omnivores. I would think like when you
Speaker 1: think of a bigfoot, you think of an omnivore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he's gonna take a he's gonna he's gonna
Speaker 2: take a jack, He's gonna take a bite of a deer,
Speaker 2: and then like have a couple berries, do you think so?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Uh so, then that would put him in the yes,
Speaker 1: but he's not gonna get it from a jack rabbit.
Speaker 1: He would have to be eating and he has another
Speaker 1: he'd have to eat another omnivorous animal. They don't overlap.
Speaker 3: Eat bear.
Speaker 2: What if those researchers came across someone who said they
Speaker 2: saw the bigfoot eating a bear, would the research.
Speaker 5: Throw it off?
Speaker 1: They're like, so, does this mean there's a lot of
Speaker 1: bears or not many? Yeah, they eat bear? Sure, And
Speaker 1: then that's a good question. It's just we need to
Speaker 1: have more research on bigfoots. And then they're saying, what
Speaker 1: if bigfoot is a hominid and it is, would the
Speaker 1: flavor profile be similar to pork since many cannibals have
Speaker 1: referred to human meat as long pig. Great question that
Speaker 1: was from Rob and Jason. They had to put their
Speaker 1: heads together, Rob and Jason, they had to co work that.
Speaker 5: They had to work that.
Speaker 2: One up together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, took the two of them. They met over. They
Speaker 3: met over coffee.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: So we've been covering a little bit just just because
Speaker 1: it's fun, sort of like, uh yeah, odd little issues
Speaker 1: having to do with odd issues having to do with T.
Speaker 1: S A taking your guns, knives and ammo.
Speaker 2: I just recently had to throw a knife in the trash.
Speaker 2: Did you go through? Yeah?
Speaker 5: You hide it? No, Bush hide't know Potter, Well.
Speaker 2: You know where it was in the Philadelphia airport. You
Speaker 2: weren't going back. No, I was deep in line and
Speaker 2: there was no Yeah, I wasn't going back. There was
Speaker 2: it was. You didn't say it was a bench made bunk.
Speaker 1: Out in the trash.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 1: You could have said to someone like, hey, can you
Speaker 1: hold my place in line? I need to go bury
Speaker 1: my knife.
Speaker 2: I was. I was running late too at the time,
Speaker 2: so I didn't have too many options.
Speaker 1: This gentleman has this to say. I'm gonna skip ahead
Speaker 1: to his name. Oh Tucker.
Speaker 3: Great interview Tucker with Putin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fresh off his interview with Putin, he has to say,
Speaker 1: I was listening to the episode that you were doing
Speaker 1: in the bus talking about T. S A stories. We'll
Speaker 1: get this. I like that the story where he says
Speaker 1: we'll get this. That guess my, that guess me me
Speaker 1: aens twenty nineteen. I got married, and I got married,
Speaker 1: ran out of alcohol, so one of the guys that
Speaker 1: was a friend of the family went and got more alcohol.
Speaker 1: Sounds like your way, needlessly say. I drank a little
Speaker 1: too much four roses that night. So we got home
Speaker 1: about two am, and we had to get up at
Speaker 1: about five am to get to the airport. On international
Speaker 1: flight to Jamaica. He's like, ee Cummings, he is no
Speaker 1: punctuation on international flight to Jamaica. Now I say international
Speaker 1: because that's very important noted because five thirty am I
Speaker 1: woke up to my four forty five alarm blaring and
Speaker 1: phone blowing up, still drunk in my uber driver calling
Speaker 1: me since five am to see if we were still
Speaker 1: going to the airport. So we jumped out of bed,
Speaker 1: threw our bags in the car, and raced down on
Speaker 1: an hour drive to the international terminal in Atlanta for
Speaker 1: a seven am flight, and realized that we're not flying
Speaker 1: to Jamaica. We're flying to Charlotte and then we're flying
Speaker 1: to Jamaica. So we're in the wrong terminal. So we
Speaker 1: hop a bus to the domestic terminal. By the time
Speaker 1: we get there, we've missed our flight. Then they got
Speaker 1: to find us the next flight to Jamaica two hours later.
Speaker 1: So here I am still drunk in the airport, going
Speaker 1: through security, getting all this yep, yep, I got it.
Speaker 1: I throw my backpack on the belt. It goes through
Speaker 1: the X ray scanner and I'm watching the guy looking
Speaker 1: at the screen and his face turned sour. They move
Speaker 1: my backpack off the side of the belt. A lady
Speaker 1: goes and looks at it and brings my bag over
Speaker 1: so she can search it. I said, yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1: She starts unzipping zippers and then pulls out a full
Speaker 1: clip fifty rounds fifteen rounds of forty five ACP that
Speaker 1: was sitting in an inside pouch of the outside zipper
Speaker 1: in my bag. So at this point, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm about to pass out, because you know, obviously I'm
Speaker 1: going to prison. Look at her and I go, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: you can keep that to to it. She looks at
Speaker 1: me for a couple of agonizing seconds felt like minutes,
Speaker 1: and says, have a nice day, throws that mag in
Speaker 1: the trash.
Speaker 5: And lets me go.
Speaker 1: He said that that dose of serenade has an added point,
Speaker 1: this is something interesting, not serenade. Adrenaline sobered him up.
Speaker 1: Oh so if you ever I don't drink anymore, but
Speaker 1: if you ever feel like you're too drunk, something scared you.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 6: I mean, he's a lucky son.
Speaker 2: I feel like he would at least got pulled in
Speaker 2: the back and got like a question a pat down.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Now, Now when that happened to me, I had the
Speaker 1: cops came. They took me in the back room just
Speaker 1: for AMMO one shotgun shell and they knew they they
Speaker 1: knew that. I was like, dude, I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 1: was hunting arm again with my brother, you know. And
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, obviously, dude, but now we got to
Speaker 1: do all this stupid shit, you know.
Speaker 2: And that was their attitude.
Speaker 5: It was like, oh, come on, man, they didn't have
Speaker 5: to they get through in the trash.
Speaker 1: Yeah now apparently I know true because I said, never
Speaker 1: mind throwing the trash.
Speaker 5: So you had your shotgun shell in your chata backpack.
Speaker 1: I was like using my day pack hunting, and then
Speaker 1: I like, unday packed my daypack and use it for
Speaker 1: carrying my stuff.
Speaker 5: Because you can check shotgun shells. Cane I know, but
Speaker 5: it was in my carry on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Oh well, I'm just clarifying you. Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: Sure, I've I've flown to a place before and got there,
Speaker 2: started going through my carry on looking for something to
Speaker 2: realize that I had a knife in there that made
Speaker 2: it through security.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done that with broadheads. Yeah, I had broad
Speaker 3: heads in my carry on made it through another jump
Speaker 3: Part two.
Speaker 1: I know this has become a topic that has been
Speaker 1: revisited several times, But after donating a knife to a
Speaker 1: trash can, I think I found a better solution than
Speaker 1: has been mentioned so far. How are they coming in?
Speaker 5: No, I think that's call Sorry, you're getting ready to run?
Speaker 8: No, and Max was really trying to get out of
Speaker 8: the way.
Speaker 5: I have charged the.
Speaker 1: Solution two. After stepping out of the shuttle bus, I
Speaker 1: realized I still had two knives on my person.
Speaker 3: Still.
Speaker 1: He got rid of some, but still had too. I
Speaker 1: refuse to trash two perfectly good knives. He's like a
Speaker 1: he's like a gunfighter. I refuse to trash two perfectly
Speaker 1: good knives. So I asked the buster if he could
Speaker 1: take them back to my car and hide them for me.
Speaker 1: This technique may have been discovered already because he promptly
Speaker 1: produced an envelope for the knives and said they should
Speaker 1: be tucked under my windshield wiper when I returned.
Speaker 5: Nice good guy.
Speaker 1: Gave him a tip when he returned my knaves. My
Speaker 1: knives were safe and sound.
Speaker 8: Oh so you were giving really helpful hot tips in America.
Speaker 2: There's lots of options that I didn't know about.
Speaker 3: Well, that was before he was at TSA, though he
Speaker 3: realized he had the knives. Yeah, so when you're at TSA,
Speaker 3: it's more of an airport.
Speaker 1: It's more of an airport story.
Speaker 5: So Cam, lay off me.
Speaker 1: Your your what's your previous hog hunt experience? I gather
Speaker 1: you're not like a passionate, dedicated, lifelong hog hunter.
Speaker 3: I know. I mean I've killed I've killed a number
Speaker 3: of hogs, but it was Yeah, I just like beow hunting,
Speaker 3: so I'll be hunt pretty much anything.
Speaker 1: And where where would you? Where have you done your
Speaker 1: pig hun California? Okay, yeah, Northern California. It's a different seat.
Speaker 1: It's a much different pig hunting scene in California. I
Speaker 1: mean they run him, they run him more like a
Speaker 1: they run him more like a game animal. God, now
Speaker 1: I can't even remember, Like you have to get like
Speaker 1: these tags. Yeah, you get tags for him. I came
Speaker 1: some hurdles to jump through. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: That was my first out of state hunt because it
Speaker 3: was really Yeah, it was in like ninety two maybe
Speaker 3: thirty two years ago.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 3: Me and Roy went down to wuy Rica and remind
Speaker 3: people who Roy is. Roy is my buddy who got
Speaker 3: me started bow hunting.
Speaker 2: Roy Roth.
Speaker 3: And uh, yeah, he passed away in twenty fifteen, but
Speaker 3: we did a lot of hunts in between from that
Speaker 3: time when I started in nineteen eighty nine to when
Speaker 3: he died in twenty fifteen. And that was our first
Speaker 3: out of state hunt. We could drive there from home
Speaker 3: in Oregon and you went there, two hunt pigs, two
Speaker 3: hunt pigs. Yeah, we And that was with dogs actually,
Speaker 3: so we were they had them bade up in the
Speaker 3: brush and I was on my knees in the brush,
Speaker 3: dogs and pigs running around, and I shot this pig
Speaker 3: at about I don't know, I don't know, eight feet yeah,
Speaker 3: and then I went down before another, I mean other
Speaker 3: times and then spot in stock like kind of in
Speaker 3: the rolling hills kind of outside of one time outside
Speaker 3: of Sacramento, and uh, then another time more south of there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the first one I got was north of Sacramento.
Speaker 3: Okay, spotings thought like green rolling hills kind of yeah.
Speaker 1: Well in the right time year. The other times year
Speaker 1: was dry right, speckled with oaks, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, and a lot of poison oak.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a real hassle to hunt there.
Speaker 3: And they had they been dug in where they were bedded,
Speaker 3: and you kind of stuck on. I'd get out early
Speaker 3: and it was hard.
Speaker 1: It was like, I don't want to say it was hard,
Speaker 1: not hard hunt, not like hunting here. It was you
Speaker 1: had to like think yeah and try. And the trick
Speaker 1: was to catch them headed the bedding at daybreak or
Speaker 1: to catch him popping out of bedding in the evening.
Speaker 5: And it was it felt more like.
Speaker 1: A glassing spot and stalk deer hunt in this area
Speaker 1: to the point where a friend of mine from school,
Speaker 1: her dad ran cattle on a number of places, and
Speaker 1: she I said, oh, you can come on pigs. But
Speaker 1: he was to the point where he would sometimes wonder
Speaker 1: if he even had any pigs at on the ranches
Speaker 1: at the time, because of they were so subject to
Speaker 1: water and when when stuff was dry, he felt that
Speaker 1: they were gone. When stuff was wet, they were there.
Speaker 1: So I never saw anything like what we saw today
Speaker 1: for some years because for a while that was the
Speaker 1: pig hunting I did. Yeah, was like, I hope I
Speaker 1: get one pig hunting in California.
Speaker 3: I went another time with this. He was a pretty
Speaker 3: well known bow hunter. One time, Ray Howell and we
Speaker 3: were down and they were in like, uh, in the oats,
Speaker 3: like like a whet or a wheat field, and uh.
Speaker 3: It reminded me of hunting carp when the carp were
Speaker 3: spawning and they're like kind of in the water and
Speaker 3: you can see the grass kind of moving around, so
Speaker 3: you'd see the you know, the the wheat moving around
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh God. So you sneak up there
Speaker 3: and you'd get i mean sometimes from me to Corin,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, because they're they just don't know, they can't
Speaker 3: see anything. They can't see anyway, but they couldn't hear,
Speaker 3: couldn't whatever. You get the wind right, you get right
Speaker 3: there and you just kind of almost shoot them like
Speaker 3: a carp. And I shot this one one time. We
Speaker 3: were filming it. I have the footage somewhere, but it
Speaker 3: it ran right at me and ran between my legs.
Speaker 3: I went like this kind of raised one leg between
Speaker 3: my legs and we were had the We had got
Speaker 3: a big kick out of that. But for a moment,
Speaker 3: I felt like Max, I definitely would have.
Speaker 5: Jumped up, and you felt like, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 3: It was pretty fun. So I don't know how many
Speaker 3: I've killed, but I haven't done it in a while. This,
Speaker 3: you know, this invite came. You and Joe had planned
Speaker 3: on doing thestry plan of doing a deer hunt that
Speaker 3: fell through than this, and then you know you and
Speaker 3: Joe somehow invited me and so here I am and
Speaker 3: didn't plan on it, but I'm very thankful that i'm here.
Speaker 1: When I asked Joe, I said, do you think Cam
Speaker 1: would want to go? Because Joe said, well, let's just
Speaker 1: go back for pigs. And I said, do you think
Speaker 1: Cam would want to go pig hunting with us? And
Speaker 1: he said I can one hundred percent say he would.
Speaker 3: I've never turned down a bow hunt. I mean, people
Speaker 3: could ask you want to bow hunt anything anywhere and
Speaker 3: I'll be like, yeah, don't even have to wonder.
Speaker 1: So okay, but let's say I want to get back
Speaker 1: in the pigs have turkeys. I want to get back
Speaker 1: in the pig on more and say this. Let's say
Speaker 1: I said, for whatever reason, I said, hey, we're going
Speaker 1: to go down to this place, but here's the deal.
Speaker 5: On this ranch.
Speaker 1: By declaration of God and man, you can't hunt with
Speaker 1: the boat.
Speaker 5: You would have said, yeah, I'll stay home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just I mean, I just don't
Speaker 3: like shooting. No, I don't have anything against it. I
Speaker 3: take I take people out rifle hunting all the time,
Speaker 3: and I'm I love seeing people be successful and being
Speaker 3: immersed in my lifestyle, which is hunting. I don't separate
Speaker 3: myself bow hunter, right, I think we're all together, but
Speaker 3: me personally, I just can't get excited about it. I can't.
Speaker 3: I just love the like this morning was perfect. I
Speaker 3: love spawn stalking. Getting in there, you know, you got
Speaker 3: to look at the animal, the position of the animal.
Speaker 3: You know, these these bores they have shields on their shoulders,
Speaker 3: so you got to think about where that arrow is entering.
Speaker 3: You got to think about I just love the strategy
Speaker 3: of bow hunting and then watching that arrow, you know,
Speaker 3: find it smart, find a smart drop in and it's
Speaker 3: like I just have It's just I'm a bow hunter.
Speaker 3: That's just all. Yeah, that's all I am.
Speaker 1: Man talking to you, hanging out, he makes you feel
Speaker 1: like I need to. I don't know, it makes you
Speaker 1: feel like I do like I do, like I do everything,
Speaker 1: which means you don't get good as much, do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, I like to go trapping,
Speaker 1: I like to go predator calling. I like to go
Speaker 1: deep dropping, shallow fishing, ice fishing, fishing, bow hunting, gun hunting, yeah,
Speaker 1: knife hunt, you know what I mean? Like whatever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's understand. It keeps you from ever being It
Speaker 1: keeps you from ever being where you're just an absolute.
Speaker 7: Master at some pursuit, your jack of all trades, master
Speaker 7: of none.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you've dedicated yourself to water following.
Speaker 7: Yeah right, I mean it just started getting into the
Speaker 7: big game.
Speaker 3: So you know, you did ask if I ever I
Speaker 3: think bird hunt or whatever else, and I don't. This
Speaker 3: is all I do, big game, bow hunt. That's all
Speaker 3: I care about. So I don't know. I mean, maybe
Speaker 3: I'm missing out on experiencing these other, you know, pursuits,
Speaker 3: which I'm sure are great, and maybe I would grow
Speaker 3: in some way because of them, and maybe interact with
Speaker 3: people that I wouldn't otherwise, and that would be rewarding,
Speaker 3: but I don't care about that.
Speaker 1: I mentioned knife hunting half joking, but then I realized
Speaker 1: on the subject of pigs, I've done the in New Zealand,
Speaker 1: in Hawaii and in Florida. I've gone out with guys
Speaker 1: doing the dog hunting where you just in the end,
Speaker 1: all you're doing is dispatching the pig with a knife,
Speaker 1: murdering it with a knife.
Speaker 3: That's what it feels like to me. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 3: it feels like it's got to be like somebody somebody's
Speaker 3: stabbing somebody else. It's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1: And the crazy thing about it is you think, like,
Speaker 1: if you imagine a arrow a broadhead as a it's
Speaker 1: a knife tip. You think nothing of delivering that knife
Speaker 1: tip that weird into the heart of that pig. But man,
Speaker 1: someone sticks that knife in your hand and you're You're like, no,
Speaker 1: I get it right in the heart. It feels you
Speaker 1: have to talk yourself into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the the feeling of the pushing it in something.
Speaker 3: You know you don't feel that arrow. You're not controlling
Speaker 3: that arrow by by your hand, So feeling that cut
Speaker 3: in those times I did it, I like it.
Speaker 1: Uh well, I mean the fact that I went and
Speaker 1: did it again and again and again, and I've done
Speaker 1: too much. But it really drew that question of like what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with a bullet, you don't think about an arrow, You
Speaker 1: don't think about it, but then when you got to
Speaker 1: do it up close, it just makes you view it differently. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that that's actually the thing I want to talk
Speaker 1: about a little bit with with pigs. Earlier I made
Speaker 1: the joke that there's sort of no crime that can
Speaker 1: be committed against pigs, that some people would feel was
Speaker 1: gone too far. The other day, my little boy, my
Speaker 1: older boy, got he's now armed with the phone, which
Speaker 1: we have my wife and I have very mixed feelings about,
Speaker 1: but it just it felt like an inevitability. He now
Speaker 1: has a phone. So my little boy, who's far away
Speaker 1: from getting a phone, comes to me all upset because
Speaker 1: the thing that his brother showed him, who likes watching
Speaker 1: hunting stuff. His singing brother showed him where they were
Speaker 1: some video where it's just they were out, sounds like
Speaker 1: they were out with pistols, semi auto pistols. In a truck,
Speaker 1: and from the description My Little Boy game, he's like
Speaker 1: more or lessre's a video about running pigs over with
Speaker 1: a truck, running him down, running him over, and you
Speaker 1: see all kinds of things like this, and you go
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a complex thing because there is
Speaker 1: like state sponsored across wild pig range. There are state
Speaker 1: sponsored efforts to eradicate which is unrealistic, but I say
Speaker 1: that in some border states there's a plan to eradicate
Speaker 1: pigs from the landscape, and in some places are just
Speaker 1: a very concerted effort to control pigs. So you have
Speaker 1: like state sponsored pig killing where you're just trying to
Speaker 1: like reduce numbers, the same way they might go to
Speaker 1: an island and the galop aghost and try to remove
Speaker 1: goats by any means necessary.
Speaker 5: Whatever.
Speaker 3: The thing that happens with that cows, it's a thing
Speaker 3: that happens.
Speaker 1: But I think kind of like from the fact that
Speaker 1: when I first started hunting, the first pig hunts I
Speaker 1: did were like it was big game hunting for pigs,
Speaker 1: and so I think that you fall into this thing
Speaker 1: like not living and growing up in wild, big country.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to jump into. It's hard for
Speaker 1: me a little bit to move out of like game
Speaker 1: animal mindset amount pigs into like like like a basically
Speaker 1: a larger version of a rat, right, which for many
Speaker 1: land managers in place in Texas and other states, it's
Speaker 1: like they are they are an overgrown rat. Yeah vermin,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they're destructive disease vectors play your.
Speaker 2: Is that a heavy or a pig's heavy?
Speaker 1: It is?
Speaker 5: Sorry to interrupt, Oh no, you're.
Speaker 2: Fine, You're fine.
Speaker 5: We're here for what.
Speaker 1: Was I hitting them with earlier?
Speaker 5: Squeaky something?
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you they don't come from that distance.
Speaker 1: It won't work. Try I'll try it, But I'm telling
Speaker 1: you now what I've found, Colin Haleine is is you
Speaker 1: gotta be not I didn't discover this, but that it's true.
Speaker 1: And it was the guy that makes J thirteen calls.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's coming closer. How far away is that?
Speaker 6: What do you say?
Speaker 5: Three hundred?
Speaker 3: I can tell you it is.
Speaker 6: No, he's just like obscured behind brush.
Speaker 2: Let me get back to what I was saying. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give all the arguments as as part of what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you all the arguments against pigs, disease, vectors,
Speaker 1: competition for food with native wildlife, Destroyers of ground nesting
Speaker 1: birds so a wild native ground resting birds so, destroyers
Speaker 1: of turkey nests because they eat the eggs, destroyers of
Speaker 1: quail nests because they eat the eggs. They are agricultural
Speaker 1: pasts because they till up agricultural ground. They have a
Speaker 1: negative impact on water quality because they were rooting the
Speaker 1: mud and denude banks of vegetation. What else. There's probably
Speaker 1: more bad things about pigs, bad old brace But I
Speaker 1: can't get I can't find my way into the I
Speaker 1: can't find my way into the pig eradication mindset.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think when I was younger, I
Speaker 3: could easily. I didn't really care about Oh, I could kill,
Speaker 3: unbridled killing and never think one thing about it. Now,
Speaker 3: like even like if I'm driving and you know how
Speaker 3: a possua might run across the road or is like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to hit a squirrel apostle. I don't
Speaker 3: want to hit I will feel terrible if I hit something. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that before when I was a kid, I was
Speaker 3: almost cool. I couldn't. I don't know, I just yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember we driving down the logging road.
Speaker 3: Kyote would come out for some reason. They stay on
Speaker 3: the road and just driving and run them right over.
Speaker 3: I could never do that now.
Speaker 1: So what do you think.
Speaker 6: Made the change for you?
Speaker 3: Just maturing, I think, and just you know, just growing up.
Speaker 3: The more you hunt, the more you kill, the more
Speaker 3: you care about It's the one thing that's how you
Speaker 3: respect life because you're taking it. You understand you know,
Speaker 3: life and death more and uh, you know more evolved mindset.
Speaker 3: So that's just part of it. And that's one reason
Speaker 3: I think anti hunters are so misguided. They haven't been
Speaker 3: involved in the circle of life. You know, they have
Speaker 3: because they're paying somebody to do their killing for them,
Speaker 3: but they haven't done the killing themselves. So they don't
Speaker 3: really respect life. And that's why they threaten people and
Speaker 3: you know, threaten people's life for hunting and things like that,
Speaker 3: just because they don't get it. So it's that's a
Speaker 3: big advantage to being a hunter, is you you immerse
Speaker 3: yourself in this. We have blood on our hands, so
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that we don't care. We care deeply,
Speaker 3: but it's just part of what we do. So I
Speaker 3: think that's just I think it's just part of maturing
Speaker 3: and you know, evolving as a hunter.
Speaker 1: I think one of the parts of the messes with
Speaker 1: me a little bit. The big thing is that they
Speaker 1: are there. They can be a little challenging to deal with,
Speaker 1: but they are edible. And when you go to the store,
Speaker 1: they're selling pork.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so then if you do, you know, to do
Speaker 1: like eradication efforts, you can't help but look and think, oh, man,
Speaker 1: look at all that. Like I remember my buddy that
Speaker 1: works at a my body works at a place that
Speaker 1: supplies the grocery stores. And now and then they'll have
Speaker 1: a disaster where something will happen to a truck, you know,
Speaker 1: and you'll send me pictures like, holy shit, You'll send
Speaker 1: me pictures of some giant dumpster full of like food
Speaker 1: that whatever got wrong, temperature, whatever got recalled whatever. You
Speaker 1: look at that and it strikes you're like, dah, what
Speaker 1: a waste man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And I remember one time I went to at one time,
Speaker 1: I went to a shark I went to a shark
Speaker 1: derby and what's that. It was like a like a
Speaker 1: fish fishing competition for sharks. And it surprised me because
Speaker 1: mako's are good, but a lot of the guys would
Speaker 1: bring in blue sharks, and blue sharks have a bad reputation.
Speaker 2: Is food to have a lot of urea, so they.
Speaker 1: K have a pissy smell and pissy taste to them.
Speaker 1: But seeing that volume of blue sharks in a dumpster
Speaker 1: just felt different to me than if I saw a
Speaker 1: dumpster full of rats, you know, and someone's gonna point out, well,
Speaker 1: you need rats, but it's like, I don't eat rats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's like part of why the hog thing and
Speaker 1: even this spot, like this place for hunting.
Speaker 5: This guy's they got.
Speaker 1: Right now, too many hogs. I've never seen it like it.
Speaker 1: It sounds like he's perhaps never seen this many around.
Speaker 1: He's got too many. He's like, just try to get
Speaker 1: rid of them, and you still get up there. You're like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can like just get a
Speaker 1: whole lot, like I can't jump out of big game
Speaker 1: mode on pigs, you know, probably largely from being from
Speaker 1: the north.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, even when I killed that
Speaker 3: that board today, it's like I feel the same as
Speaker 3: if I killed a bull.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's just I still respect that life, and it still
Speaker 3: impacts me. I killed it. I'm I'm that was the goal,
Speaker 3: to kill a pig. I did it. But I still
Speaker 3: respect that. And it's like, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 3: know why I think that's just yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I just know I'm getting softer in
Speaker 3: my old age human.
Speaker 8: I just wonder why why we think of that as soft,
Speaker 8: you know, for example, as opposed to.
Speaker 6: More thoughtful about it.
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's I think it's because i'd
Speaker 1: say the same thing.
Speaker 3: I think it's soft.
Speaker 1: Relative to what you were, right, Yeah, soft relative to
Speaker 1: what you were.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel better about it. I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel good sometimes, and I mean I don't it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel bad, but I mean I feel like it's a
Speaker 3: more honest approach than what I how I looked at
Speaker 3: things when I was younger. I think that when I
Speaker 3: was younger, I was immature and I wasn't seeing that the
Speaker 3: full scope of what it meant to be a hunter.
Speaker 3: It was just, oh, we just killed shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've noticed in my older age, I guess only
Speaker 2: thirty two, not old, but soft but not old.
Speaker 1: Well, if this is as hard, if this is the
Speaker 1: apex of hardness and it only gets soft.
Speaker 3: I don't know, this is not a good feature.
Speaker 2: I've noticed, like dispatching animals in traps is like not
Speaker 2: as easy as it used to be. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've if you ever got that way or feel
Speaker 2: that way. But like I'm don't get me wrong, I'll
Speaker 2: still I'm still gonna trap and kill animals in like
Speaker 2: feet away from me, in a trap where they can't
Speaker 2: get away. But it just like something about it feels different.
Speaker 1: These das Man. That's interesting to bring that up because
Speaker 1: I noticed that, like I used to if I used
Speaker 1: to come up on something, if I when I was
Speaker 1: you know, high school, early college and really trap and
Speaker 1: hard and I came up on a fox that I caught,
Speaker 1: I couldn't get that thing dead quick enough, not out
Speaker 1: of like getting it over with.
Speaker 5: It was just jubilation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, zero thought.
Speaker 1: And now there's a little bit of man, let this guy.
Speaker 2: Go, like that coyote that we caught this year, just
Speaker 2: walking up on it and that thing like it ain't
Speaker 2: getting away from you. No. But with that being said,
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna do it again next year. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: is like a.
Speaker 8: Yeah, kably allowing yourself to Uh. I don't know whether
Speaker 8: it's projection or accepting reality. Like you're looking at something
Speaker 8: that in the moment is helpless and you know you're
Speaker 8: just allowing yourself to feel it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife more and more thinks that. My wife
Speaker 1: more and more thinks that this sort of like overriding
Speaker 1: theory that that we're governed by, uh, we're governed by.
Speaker 2: Fear of death.
Speaker 6: As you get older, she tries, She tries to.
Speaker 1: Pin a lot of stuff on fear of death.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think about myself at all in
Speaker 3: those moments. I mean, I don't know if it's subconsciously
Speaker 3: I am, but to me personally, it doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: that's what's going on.
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe some I agree with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just when I'm when I'm about to kill a
Speaker 2: kyo in a travel it feels like I'm not thinking
Speaker 2: about personal death.
Speaker 1: Another thing my wife just told me has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with hogs or killing, is it? She said, there
Speaker 1: is no baby named Steve.
Speaker 2: That's so true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she said.
Speaker 1: You would never to a million years go to someone's
Speaker 1: house and there's a baby and they're going You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's the baby's name. They would never be a million
Speaker 1: years ago. It's Steve. That baby's name is Steve.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Oh wait, someone found Oh I should have put it
Speaker 8: in talking points because we have no reception. I won't
Speaker 8: be able to insert it. But someone found a quote
Speaker 8: I think it was from a Japanese author translated about
Speaker 8: the baby face old man face. Hmmm, someone wrote in
Speaker 8: about that they like identify the.
Speaker 1: Youngest babies have the oldest face.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was, but there was a there was something similar,
Speaker 8: but it was a in a book by a Japanese author.
Speaker 6: I'll show that to you.
Speaker 1: So that's on my mind that the world's going to
Speaker 1: run out of Steve's.
Speaker 3: So either you were born with some other name or
Speaker 3: you were born thirty years old. Which one was it?
Speaker 5: When I was a kid.
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, if you said Steve, if
Speaker 1: the teacher said Steve, six kids are going to raise
Speaker 1: their hand. Yeah, And if they said Jenny, six seven
Speaker 1: kids are going to raise their hand.
Speaker 3: Now it could be boys raise their hand for Jenny.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just or variations on Caden and then
Speaker 1: just know Steve. Anymore Steve's are gone.
Speaker 2: The air of Steve's I hated.
Speaker 3: I hated my name when I was a kid. I
Speaker 3: was like, why can't I just be like a Mic
Speaker 3: or a John.
Speaker 1: Oh, you didn't want to be Cam.
Speaker 3: Nobody's named caming you Cam, Cara, Cameron Cam.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean I guess maybe some girls would say Cameron,
Speaker 3: but yeah, Cam stupid.
Speaker 5: I don't think it's I like it.
Speaker 3: It's it's a little more accepted now.
Speaker 2: But it's kind of so fitting though, because you're such
Speaker 2: a bow hunter. You know, cams on a bow. I
Speaker 2: don't know you ever think about that. You know, it
Speaker 2: could have been named Riser or something. You know, yeah, arrow, arrow, broadhead.
Speaker 3: Passed through.
Speaker 5: Dog stabilizer.
Speaker 1: So Cam, what, uh, what's going on in the world
Speaker 1: of we kind of Uh, I'm familiar with what's going
Speaker 1: on in the world with you with huntings. We just
Speaker 1: hunted this morning. What's going on with your your running career?
Speaker 1: You're you're running passion.
Speaker 5: M m.
Speaker 3: Uh it's uh, you know, I'm not getting any younger.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you but when do you jump?
Speaker 1: Like, uh, where do you sit within your age brack,
Speaker 1: because that's kind of thing is that's gotta be the
Speaker 1: things you start.
Speaker 3: Paying attention to, right I don't know. I don't really
Speaker 3: like that. That seems like that. It seems like a
Speaker 3: cop out. It's like, you know, I still want to
Speaker 3: beat all the young guys. Okay, Yeah, Like being the
Speaker 3: fastest old guy would be like being I can't say it,
Speaker 3: yoused to be. There's a saying being the smartest. I
Speaker 3: can't say it now. It's like you get canceled if
Speaker 3: you say it.
Speaker 5: Oh, I don't say that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's like being a fast old guys like,
Speaker 3: uh huh so I just you know I in my
Speaker 3: age group. Yeah, of course I do good because most
Speaker 3: people my age are dead.
Speaker 5: How do the age brackets work?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: It goes. I mean Masters is fortying over, but then
Speaker 3: there's age groups within Masters, so it'd be like senior Masters. No,
Speaker 3: it'd be like fifty to fifty four, fifty five to
Speaker 3: fifty nine. So they caught it thin.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this is for like the what do you call them?
Speaker 2: The races you run?
Speaker 3: Oh, the ultra ultras don't really have. Most good ultrarunners
Speaker 3: are old.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're young, you're faster and more able, but
Speaker 3: you're not mentally tough. So if you're gonna run two
Speaker 3: hundred miles, a young twenty year old is gonna usually
Speaker 3: ship the bed way before the end.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you're when you're older, you're just you know,
Speaker 3: life has been You've been kicked in the balls a lot,
Speaker 3: you know, so you've been just a hard race is
Speaker 3: just like this is just I'm this is temporary. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get through it. So you're just more mentally tough.
Speaker 3: Young guys just haven't developed that mental toughness yet, really
Speaker 3: you think so? Oh, I know for a.
Speaker 5: Fact, that's why I jump.
Speaker 2: You guys.
Speaker 3: I guess it's like a different caliber of young guys.
Speaker 1: But it's young guys that go through like the the
Speaker 1: the Ranger course and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, there is it's a that's an extreme
Speaker 3: like those guys are they're in the special category.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm talking in general, you.
Speaker 3: Know, with you Yeah, there's of course there's tough like
Speaker 3: elite well special operator or what is that special operations?
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean there's there's always freaks out there,
Speaker 3: and there's there's young freaks too. I'm just saying in general,
Speaker 3: when you're young, you're not mentally as tough as you
Speaker 3: are when you're older.
Speaker 1: What is the prime age for the old What do
Speaker 1: you call? I mean, you don't call it ultra marathon? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you call marathon? You call Yeah, but there's
Speaker 1: an off road, but it's like off road, Yeah, it's trail.
Speaker 5: Is there?
Speaker 1: Like is there ultra marathon? It's it's on. Are they
Speaker 1: always off because the road's too hard?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: I mean there's your body. No, there's some on the
Speaker 3: road too. But that does beat you up for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean the mountains kind of give you. It's it's
Speaker 3: hard because you got the climb, but you are using
Speaker 3: different muscles at different times. When it's like there's a
Speaker 3: race called bad Water one thirty five and it's one
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five miles in Death Valley. Most of
Speaker 3: it is on road which gets like one hundred and
Speaker 3: thirty degrees. You have to run on the white line
Speaker 3: otherwise your shoes are melting. What yeah, geez. Yeah, it's intense.
Speaker 3: It's intense. So that on the road, very tough, and
Speaker 3: it's the same muscles for one hundred and thirty five miles.
Speaker 5: Have you done that one?
Speaker 3: I haven't done that one? Yeah, no I want to.
Speaker 3: So generally, ultras are in the mountains, but there they
Speaker 3: don't have to be.
Speaker 2: It is my point.
Speaker 3: And to answer your question, Seth, a ultra marathon would
Speaker 3: be anything over a normal marathon. So an ultra marathon
Speaker 3: could range from a fifty k which is about thirty
Speaker 3: one miles. That's a sh ortist ultra thirty one miles too.
Speaker 3: I've done two hundred the MOAB two forty is two
Speaker 3: hundred and forty miles.
Speaker 2: ESZ and that how how long does that take you?
Speaker 3: That took seventy eight hours?
Speaker 2: Are you sleeping at all?
Speaker 3: Two hours? So the clock doesn't stop the best people
Speaker 3: like Courtney, who I run with. She I'm trying to
Speaker 3: think how long she slept in that one she won
Speaker 3: that race. I got like maybe eleventh now I can't remember,
Speaker 3: but eleventh you count eleventh in your.
Speaker 1: Age group or just eleventh eleventh that age with that
Speaker 1: age group.
Speaker 5: Stuff hard man.
Speaker 3: It doesn't that that doesn't work on ultras because I'm
Speaker 3: telling you there's old old in that race. There was
Speaker 3: like a sixty year old woman who beat me. Okay,
Speaker 3: really this freak Pam read she is so good. And women,
Speaker 3: I'll just say this, women and for for like elite
Speaker 3: endurance athletes. Women are I'm not gonna say they're better
Speaker 3: than they're better than most men. The toughest women are
Speaker 3: better than a lot of the best men because they're
Speaker 3: just so much. I think they're built for pain, for
Speaker 3: because of child bearing. I think they deal with pain
Speaker 3: better than men do. That's why Courtney is one races
Speaker 3: outright over elite meno and she's you know, she's not
Speaker 3: gonna be faster. Men will have you know, will be faster,
Speaker 3: be stronger in general over women. But for endurance, it's
Speaker 3: women have an advantage.
Speaker 1: So when you're doing that, at what point, At what
Speaker 1: point do you have a sense that you're gonna do well?
Speaker 1: You know in a given race, Like if I go out,
Speaker 1: if I'm out and I got a high up of
Speaker 1: mountain for whatever reason, messing around, hunting whatever out pretty
Speaker 1: quickly in the day, know that I'm going to tear
Speaker 1: it up or I'll be like, man, this is the
Speaker 1: should this should not feel like it feels.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those races, because you got seventy eight hours to
Speaker 3: figure it out, so you can start off feeling like shit.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot, a lot of time left
Speaker 3: to recover, so yeah, you just keep and in a
Speaker 3: race like that, I've went the first two hundred mile
Speaker 3: where I did the Big Foot two hundreds in Washington,
Speaker 3: which is freaking super tough. The trails there don't have
Speaker 3: many switchbacks like they do in a lot of the
Speaker 3: Western states for horse packers, a lot of those trails
Speaker 3: will have switchbacks. In Washington for whatever reason, not many switchbacks,
Speaker 3: so you'd gain five thousand feet and it'd be just
Speaker 3: straight up the hill, just ass kicker. But in that
Speaker 3: race I went, and in most long races like this,
Speaker 3: you're up and down, up and down, problem solving, don't
Speaker 3: have enough salt, need more salt, need more, calories, need more,
Speaker 3: you know, get dehydrated. And that one I was winning
Speaker 3: by hours, like I think three hours in the first
Speaker 3: forty miles because I went out too fast, got dehydrated,
Speaker 3: then freaking died, then came back. And by the end
Speaker 3: of the race, my brother was pacing me, who is
Speaker 3: an amazing runner. Taylor is his name. He's a he's
Speaker 3: one ultras outright. He was pacing me at the very end,
Speaker 3: and I was running so good. By the end, He's like, Cam,
Speaker 3: I don't I can't keep up. I was running six
Speaker 3: something minute miles after two hundred miles after I could
Speaker 3: barely walk at some times during the same race. So
Speaker 3: you just learn what your body can do. But yeah,
Speaker 3: to answer your question, you can start off and like,
Speaker 3: I don't know how this is gonna work out, but
Speaker 3: you're gonna it's gonna be up and down no matter what.
Speaker 3: You might start off great and then feel like, you know,
Speaker 3: after one hundred miles, which is you know, probably gonna
Speaker 3: be twenty four to thirty hours, you might feel like
Speaker 3: I can't take another step, and then you keep going
Speaker 3: and you do. Your body is incredible. People don't realize.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I mean, I like, I look at
Speaker 1: that stuff and uh, I look at that stuff like
Speaker 1: I can walk good, like good long distances. I look
Speaker 1: at that stuff with running and I just can't because
Speaker 1: even now and then I'll be like I'll run.
Speaker 3: Back to the car and grab the whatever keys.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know.
Speaker 3: Then you get where you can see the car and.
Speaker 5: All you're walking.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just like something something in my body is.
Speaker 3: Like, what are we running for? Let's just walk fast? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I just for me, It's given
Speaker 3: me so much confidence because when I was first hunting
Speaker 3: the Egle capital Ar, and this is kind of where
Speaker 3: I came of age as a mountain hunter. I was
Speaker 3: by myself, so I was scared, you know, I was
Speaker 3: scared back there sometimes and I was like, God, damn,
Speaker 3: this freaking these mountains are kicking my ass just mentally, physically, spiritually.
Speaker 3: It's like I'm thinking about my kids at home, you know,
Speaker 3: little thinking about I should be home. I'm here. It's
Speaker 3: like all these and I just fit. When I got
Speaker 3: mentally stronger, I was like that wilderness was thirty miles
Speaker 3: wide by sixty miles long. It's three hundred and eighty
Speaker 3: seven thousand acres they called the Little Alps. It's very rugged.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I just what can I do
Speaker 3: to get tougher? So I started running and I thought,
Speaker 3: if I could run one hundred miles, finished this one
Speaker 3: hundred mile ultra first one I did was the Big
Speaker 3: Horn one hundred in Wyoming.
Speaker 2: What year was that?
Speaker 3: That was two thousand and nine. If I could run
Speaker 3: one hundred miles, I could get out of the all
Speaker 3: the way through the wilderness in one day. Why would
Speaker 3: I be?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: That gave me so much confidence I could go back
Speaker 3: there wouldn't think anything about being fearful or I just
Speaker 3: was felt so capable. So then I was like, instead
Speaker 3: of worrying about I got to make it back to camp,
Speaker 3: or or if I have camp on my back, how
Speaker 3: much water do I have? I do have enough food?
Speaker 3: What's this weather doing? You know, there was I didn't
Speaker 3: have a satellite phone or anything like that. But once
Speaker 3: I got that confidence, I didn't worry about that shit.
Speaker 3: All I worried about was I need to kill a bull.
Speaker 3: And when when all you're one hundred percent focus is
Speaker 3: on killing a bull, not everything that can go wrong,
Speaker 3: all these things you can't control.
Speaker 1: Not a yeah, like if I get it now, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be dark, right, you don't and then oh my god,
Speaker 1: I gotta cut it up.
Speaker 3: And then what am I gonna do? It's gonna be warm.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll there they are tonight, I'll come back in
Speaker 3: the morning. I'll make a plan. I just would go
Speaker 3: one hundred percent focused on killing. Every single time I
Speaker 3: saw something, I didn't care how far it was, I'd
Speaker 3: go and I killed. And it was just like it
Speaker 3: was that confidence, and that then that has carried over
Speaker 3: to everything. Now you know everything, but that ultra had
Speaker 3: that that ultra mindset I think facilitated that growth.
Speaker 5: Did it change how you? Did it change you socially? Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I pretty much look at everybody and think, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're a pussy.
Speaker 2: He can now it.
Speaker 3: But it does. When you hear people complain about certain things.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think anybody who does you know, fighters
Speaker 3: probably feel like they feel this way. Like my son
Speaker 3: who is a ranger, probably feels this way. You hear
Speaker 3: normal complaints and you're like, it's not really worth complaining about,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because it's really not that,
Speaker 3: it's not that bad. So it just gives you perspective
Speaker 3: over what's hard and what's not. Not really judging people,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. Everybody has their own everybody
Speaker 3: has their own threshold. I'm not I don't look down.
Speaker 3: You know, something that's hard for somebody, it's hard for them.
Speaker 3: I can't tell them it's not hard. It's hard for them.
Speaker 1: What do you when you're in one of those megalong races?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: At what point does it start to feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's one hundred percent metal.
Speaker 2: Um?
Speaker 3: It depends on you know, if you put in the
Speaker 3: mile So the general rule of thumb is the weekly
Speaker 3: mile mileage you get should match your race. So if
Speaker 3: you've been getting in one hundred mile weeks, you should
Speaker 3: be prepared for a hundred mile or this is roughly
Speaker 3: got it. So to get it. To get in one
Speaker 3: hundred mile weeks, you have to that's fourteen miles a day.
Speaker 3: So you run fourteen miles a day, you're getting a
Speaker 3: hundred mile if you can run fourteen miles a day.
Speaker 3: Because most people are you talking a seven day week,
Speaker 3: seven day week, yep, every day. So you have to
Speaker 3: get your body used to those big, back to back
Speaker 3: days because in those long races, you're running for multiple days.
Speaker 3: Most people, if you go run a half marathon, I
Speaker 3: mean you're down for a while. Your body can get
Speaker 3: accustomed to day after day after day, and then like
Speaker 3: there's some you know, so I get one hundred miles
Speaker 3: a week, and then I'll do even bigger weeks like
Speaker 3: I'll try to do I go through stretches where I'll
Speaker 3: do a marathon a day, and that that would be
Speaker 3: you know, two over two hundred miles a week. That's
Speaker 3: to me, I think that's what it takes to prepare
Speaker 3: your body to push like that, because in a race
Speaker 3: where you're not sleeping, you're not recovering. You might feel
Speaker 3: good for thirty miles, which is still a long ass run.
Speaker 3: But at thirty miles and at two hundred and forty
Speaker 3: mile race, you have two hundred and ten miles left?
Speaker 3: What are you going? So you're feeling like shit for
Speaker 3: most of the race. You can't train And as soon
Speaker 3: as you start feeling like shit, stop because that's where
Speaker 3: most of the race is taking place. So it's just
Speaker 3: a matter of building your body up to be able
Speaker 3: to endure that that I mean, just what you're asking
Speaker 3: of it. It's at the end.
Speaker 5: Are you towards the end?
Speaker 3: Are you still doing that?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: You need salt, you need water, you need calories. You're
Speaker 1: at a point where you just you're just gonna finish
Speaker 1: it and not think. Can't you still got to be
Speaker 1: like can't you still like flying? You can still gotta
Speaker 1: be like flying a helicopter, paying attention to everything.
Speaker 3: The whole time. Once you stop thinking about food or calories,
Speaker 3: hydration and salt, you're pretty much done. Okay, it has
Speaker 3: you can never Sometimes you get into groove and you
Speaker 3: don't take in that stuff every hour you pay for it.
Speaker 2: Got it.
Speaker 3: You have to keep those those three things up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on a different subject, you did.
Speaker 5: They were mentioned to me that, you know, you like.
Speaker 1: Still hunting and then moving into like stocks, right, and
Speaker 1: you're talking about hunting with a friend of yours who's
Speaker 1: a good caller. And when your friend says, well, let's
Speaker 1: try to call that bowl, you'll think yourself, let's try to,
Speaker 1: won't we to sneak down there and try to get it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: I think it's just used to I always used to
Speaker 3: growing up on public land in that wilderness, and everywhere
Speaker 3: I hunted, even before the wilderness, it was like twenty
Speaker 3: minutes from Eugenie or Springfield is where I would elk hunt.
Speaker 3: Very accessible, there's big bulls there. There'd be articles on
Speaker 3: the paper. We lived on that road, so opening day
Speaker 3: of deer season there'd be three hundred trucks going by.
Speaker 3: So you get used to hunting amongst other people. When
Speaker 3: you're elk hunting amongst other people, you don't call because
Speaker 3: those bulls have been called so many times. So I
Speaker 3: grew up never calling because you blew on. I mean,
Speaker 3: even if you were good. Those bulls are probably not
Speaker 3: going to react. So I was just so used to
Speaker 3: and I gained a lot of confidence and I can
Speaker 3: just because to me, getting down on an elk is
Speaker 3: way easier than stocking a big meal deer meal. Deer
Speaker 3: are so much harder to stock, just how they they're
Speaker 3: more aware how they bed because the bow hunter generally
Speaker 3: were way for them to bed, and then you plan
Speaker 3: your stock, you get the wind right, very difficult, and
Speaker 3: elk they're so noisy, they're so big, they're more of
Speaker 3: a dominant figure on the landscape, so they're not quite
Speaker 3: as skittish as I don't think it's as you're like
Speaker 3: a white tail. Just to me, I had a lot
Speaker 3: of success and just got really good at stalking, and
Speaker 3: so I've never had to I hardly ever call. I've
Speaker 3: killed a lot of bowls and probably ninety percent of
Speaker 3: them were spawn stock.
Speaker 1: When they're better, or you're doing them on their feeding
Speaker 1: or whatever anything.
Speaker 3: You can anytime, yeah, just whatever they're doing. Uh Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it's just you know how hunting is is, you're
Speaker 3: just reading body language, You're reading body language terrain. You
Speaker 3: know that pig today you can eat pigs are you know,
Speaker 3: they're not very aware, especially now that I think they're
Speaker 3: so focused on feeding because it's been so dry. But
Speaker 3: you just you watch the animals. You see what you
Speaker 3: can get away with. You stay in the shadows, You
Speaker 3: use whatever cover is available. You go very slow. You're
Speaker 3: not your arms aren't out kind of in line, your
Speaker 3: your legs aren't taking big steps, and that profile is
Speaker 3: barely moving if you're going right to them, and you
Speaker 3: just all that ways in and then you get into
Speaker 3: bow range. You wait for the right position and then
Speaker 3: you kill them. And that's just what I do on
Speaker 3: on everything, and elk are very susceptible to stalking.
Speaker 1: I think, what what's your attitude or not your attitude,
Speaker 1: what's your approach when you're when you're in a big
Speaker 1: old like grab ass party with a couple of bulls
Speaker 1: and ten cows and everybody's running, you know, moving around,
Speaker 1: tons of eyeballs.
Speaker 3: Do you just sit it out to wait or you
Speaker 3: get in there and.
Speaker 2: Mix it up?
Speaker 3: No, I mean it depends if the if the bull,
Speaker 3: if there's a dominant bull there, like usually I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna kill the biggest, oldest bull, so I'll get in
Speaker 3: And I mean I'm thinking, like a good example was
Speaker 3: two years ago.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: I had somebody could have called for me. This bull.
Speaker 3: I could hear it was up on this bench, so
Speaker 3: calling it's not going to come off the bench he
Speaker 3: I could. I knew he had his herd up there.
Speaker 3: He's not coming off a bench to come to a call, right,
Speaker 3: he had elevation. They're always going to want to keep
Speaker 3: that elevation. So I'm like, he's not going to come
Speaker 3: to the call. I need to get back up on
Speaker 3: that bench. So I got up on the bench and
Speaker 3: it was really thick up there, and he came around.
Speaker 3: He was going like working the bench and then going
Speaker 3: on the edge of the bench down towards the drainage.
Speaker 3: He would call there because they want to announce that
Speaker 3: they're badasses and they want everybody to know, so he
Speaker 3: would go to that edge of it. I was on
Speaker 3: the hillside edge where I came up, and I saw
Speaker 3: him come up and he raked this tree about I
Speaker 3: don't know, thirty five yards away but facing me, and
Speaker 3: I didn't have a shot. And then he left and
Speaker 3: then he went back down to the edge of the
Speaker 3: bench over the drainage called and then he started to
Speaker 3: come back around in amongst or during this time, there's
Speaker 3: a couple of cows and they're feeding, and they would
Speaker 3: get there and there cows were like twenty yards. So
Speaker 3: in that case, I'm just saying, he's coming back. I
Speaker 3: know what he's doing. I just got to hope this
Speaker 3: wind holes wind was coming up at this time is
Speaker 3: mid morning, and I got to hope that this win holds.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna stay here, And so I stayed there
Speaker 3: Brandona Shock he was there filming me, and uh, I
Speaker 3: just stayed for probably I don't know, it was probably
Speaker 3: twenty five or thirty minutes. And eventually those cows fed
Speaker 3: up to about ten yards, and so I just knew
Speaker 3: that if this hole held, I was gonna, you know,
Speaker 3: wait him out. He would come up. And he came
Speaker 3: up to about twenty one yards, and I slipped an
Speaker 3: arrow through the brush and killed him. So it's, uh,
Speaker 3: it just depends. That was just a situation where I
Speaker 3: was just weighing out what I thought was going on,
Speaker 3: what were the best odds for me to get that
Speaker 3: bowl killed, And then that's how it happened. You know,
Speaker 3: if there's satellite bowls around, it's he's going to run
Speaker 3: him off. I mean, he's gonna run, he's gonna come.
Speaker 3: He's not gonna let a satellite bowl get close to
Speaker 3: his cows without him coming in and let him know
Speaker 3: who runs the show. So it's just but as you know,
Speaker 3: as well as I do, and most of your listeners,
Speaker 3: you're just every situation is unique. Oh no, and I
Speaker 3: you know, I kind of laugh sometimes when people, you know,
Speaker 3: they act like they got this species or this animal
Speaker 3: figured out. It's like, every single time is different. There's tendencies,
Speaker 3: but you don't have it figured out. You you you've
Speaker 3: developed and noticed habits. But every situation because of that,
Speaker 3: if that bench wasn't there would have been something else.
Speaker 3: It would have been something else going. Or if that
Speaker 3: or if I was above him instead of below him,
Speaker 3: maybe he would have come up that bench to me.
Speaker 3: But it's like, I mean, it's it's a chess game
Speaker 3: every single time. I just love that part of it,
Speaker 3: and I've I don't have it figured out, but I
Speaker 3: have figured out good decisions to make to put the
Speaker 3: odds in my favor.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's part of what I think figuring out
Speaker 1: is is if you've exposed yourself to enough situations you
Speaker 1: start to put together a kind of probability calculator.
Speaker 5: It's it's like.
Speaker 3: Your crystal ball. I'm big on numbers. Oh I'm always
Speaker 3: running numbers, and I'm always like, it's it's probably. I
Speaker 3: was a purchasing purchasing agent for twenty years at the
Speaker 3: local utility back home, and I would look at everything
Speaker 3: like a calculation. So it was just odds and its
Speaker 3: numbers and just running and I just so I'm always
Speaker 3: looking at how much time I've been in this area,
Speaker 3: what the wind's gonna do with this, you know, just
Speaker 3: like just running in my head. Like but yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just probability, I think, is kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just getting in saying you're not you're not able
Speaker 1: to you know, you're not going well that one time
Speaker 1: this happened, another time that happened, an our time happened.
Speaker 3: It's just I have a feeling, yeah, based on experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a feeling that that thing, that thing's
Speaker 1: gonna come back up here again. Yeah, you know, and
Speaker 1: then they all run down the hill and you're.
Speaker 7: Like, I guess I was wrong at that time.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like it's you know, it's not
Speaker 3: like it's a slam dunk. But anytime, you know, people
Speaker 3: I do. I do a lot of elk hunting, so
Speaker 3: I get some balls on the ground. People say it's
Speaker 3: too much this or this or that, but but the
Speaker 3: point the point is, it's like, uh, oh man, Now
Speaker 3: I don't even know what point was. I'm sorry, Uh
Speaker 3: what what?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: What do you just say?
Speaker 1: I said, well, you you think I was saying I
Speaker 1: was joking that you were convinced or thinking it's gonna
Speaker 1: come back this way.
Speaker 5: But I said, then they all run down the hill.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Actually, now I don't evenmember what it's gonna say.
Speaker 3: So sorry about that.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's good dark out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry about the cameras, it's just running out of light.
Speaker 3: No doing audio only.
Speaker 5: We're just gonna have to like cut halfway and just one.
Speaker 1: Problem we haven't thought of with our studio needs.
Speaker 5: We need to be full moon only.
Speaker 3: And only remember the bounce, the bounce bounce off that
Speaker 3: moon whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, but no, it's a
Speaker 3: oh no, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, people
Speaker 3: make it seem like, uh, you know, I don't want
Speaker 3: to say people have it figured out, and I don't,
Speaker 3: so I'll never say I have it figured out every time.
Speaker 3: But it's not like it's impossible. I mean, how many
Speaker 3: guys kill bulls every year?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: A lot.
Speaker 1: Were at the end the other day when it gets
Speaker 1: to be September and you see like the picture everybody's
Speaker 1: sending you and you're seeing you're like.
Speaker 3: How was everybody? Yeah getting the ball?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Well so I got to go look at people
Speaker 5: right around me, go did you get a bull?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, good, someone somebody did, somebody didn't. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: challenging and it's hard. It's ten percent success. I get
Speaker 3: all that, but it's not like it's impossible. So if
Speaker 3: ten percent of guys, some of them are prepared, some
Speaker 3: of them are prepared. But if if you can go
Speaker 3: out and you get lucky and kill, imagine what you
Speaker 3: can do if you focus your whole life on it. Sure,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's not it's not like
Speaker 3: we're saying, oh, you're gonna try to do this, saying
Speaker 3: no man has ever done Okay, it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 3: We're doing something guys do every year. So if if
Speaker 3: another man can do it, I know I can do it.
Speaker 3: So it's just good making good decisions, put yourself in
Speaker 3: position for success, and you know, basing all this experience
Speaker 3: you have, it can happen. It can happen often. So
Speaker 3: that's how it looks.
Speaker 1: That used to be the only pep talk I knew
Speaker 1: was it only takes one. And then there's like another
Speaker 1: pep talk of reminding myself how fast things can turn
Speaker 1: around yep. And then the other pep talk is the
Speaker 1: old like, uh, well we're not gonna kill him in
Speaker 1: the truck. Yeah, that's you know, but you're all very
Speaker 1: pragmatic pep talks.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Roy used to say that all the time to my
Speaker 3: buddy Roy we started bow hunting, as we mentioned, but
Speaker 3: sometimes he would say, I don't know what to do,
Speaker 3: but I'm just going to be out there. You know,
Speaker 3: all you can all you can control is where you're at.
Speaker 3: If you're out there, who knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: There always a chance, and so yeah, he would just
Speaker 3: wouldn't know what to do. You know, everybody likes to
Speaker 3: think they have it exactly figured out. Any hunter knows
Speaker 3: you don't always have it figured out. And you feel
Speaker 3: like I feel there's been hunts where I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't know how I've ever killed anything. It feels impossible.
Speaker 3: But when you're out there, yeah, it can turn on
Speaker 3: a dime. Yeah, So it's a I think hunting teaches
Speaker 3: that optimism, that optimism optimistic mindset almost better than anything,
Speaker 3: because you have to believe. If you don't believe, you're
Speaker 3: at home, you're at home, you're talking on social media
Speaker 3: talking shit about guys who killed Yeah. So if you're optimistic,
Speaker 3: you're not worried about any of that. You're out there
Speaker 3: and it's like, I'm going to make something happen.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should combine those pep talk and it would
Speaker 1: be it only takes one. It happens so fast you
Speaker 1: can't get them in the truck. Yeah, it happened so
Speaker 1: fast it can happen. Yeah, it turn on a dime.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean just like all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: there it is, you know, Yeah, how many times you
Speaker 1: have that feeling I've had, I've been You're.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, I can't believe it. Well, we
Speaker 3: never I've more often had the feeling of please, please,
Speaker 3: could I just have a break please? I mean, I
Speaker 3: deserve I deserve this I've worked so hard, Please can
Speaker 3: I have a break. That's what I've I'm used to that.
Speaker 7: I feel like that happens a lot of time, turkey
Speaker 7: hunting in the spring time, Like walking around not hearing
Speaker 7: a single gobble the whole morning, and then like you're
Speaker 7: walking back to the truck and one gobbles back where
Speaker 7: you just came from me. You're like, well, better go
Speaker 7: chase him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: The one hunt that we do that every time, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I just cannot picture this is happening that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't picture. I uh, just just to close.
Speaker 1: It's a few years ago, me and Yan he went
Speaker 1: to Missouri for the turkey opener and it was the coldest, snowiest,
Speaker 1: windiest morning and it was like so winter time. I mean,
Speaker 1: you couldn't find it. There wasn't no bud on a tree.
Speaker 1: And we went out and split up. I went off
Speaker 1: one direction, Yeah, he went off in our direction. This
Speaker 1: this big chunkle of uh. I can't remember who administered it.
Speaker 5: It was.
Speaker 1: It was public land. It was like National forest land.
Speaker 1: It was some other kind of public land like county
Speaker 1: land or something. Either way, I'm out there and I've
Speaker 1: and I talked myself into that you just can't hunt
Speaker 1: in these conditions.
Speaker 5: Sounds brutal.
Speaker 1: Well over on the next over, on the next hillside,
Speaker 1: all sudden, son of a bit.
Speaker 5: No, not a shotgun show. Okay, I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: I'm over here saying everything like that would it's two windy,
Speaker 1: snowy spring and over on the next bridge, unbeknownst to me,
Speaker 1: Yanni's working a hot gobbler and kills it, and I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: you know, like the mindset man, you know, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: determining that. It's like we might as well go home.
Speaker 1: And then he's working a hot gobbler around the next bridge,
Speaker 1: and talk about like the two different guys with the different.
Speaker 3: Attitudes that that reminds me. I read I read this
Speaker 3: old story just on the podcast the other day, a
Speaker 3: solo podcast. I like, I like hearkening back on uh
Speaker 3: just good reading or good writers, or old books like
Speaker 3: Life of Full Drop, Chuck Adams, just old stuff that
Speaker 3: you know, people don't talk about these days. So I
Speaker 3: read this old article. Roy and Dwight shoe or honeying
Speaker 3: on Kodiak and they got stuck there for twenty three days.
Speaker 3: They're supposed to be there, I think twelve. But the
Speaker 3: weather had the river froze and a plane is supposed
Speaker 3: to where we hunt on Kodiak. Plane drops us off
Speaker 3: on this river. They land on floats, but it froze,
Speaker 3: so they were stuck. But anyway, this nasty weather came in,
Speaker 3: and Roy always felt like he was going to be
Speaker 3: able to it didn't matter, It did not matter what
Speaker 3: the situation was. So Dwight said he was dry. Dwight
Speaker 3: Sheche wrote this article. He was trying to keep up
Speaker 3: with Roy. Roy's going up the hill. And Roy's a
Speaker 3: big guy. I mean, you would look at him and
Speaker 3: you would think that this guy supposed to be a stud,
Speaker 3: biggest stud you've ever seen, or not ever seen, because
Speaker 3: you wouldn't think that biggest study I've ever hunted with.
Speaker 3: But anyway, Roy's going up the hill. Dwight, who's very capable,
Speaker 3: could barely keep up with him. And he said, while
Speaker 3: Roy was going up the trail and Dwight was struggling
Speaker 3: to keep up, Roy killed a buck in a red fox.
Speaker 3: So and so then that sets the stage for this
Speaker 3: other one. The wind was howling so bad that they
Speaker 3: could barely see. Roy said, I'm i still got a
Speaker 3: buck tag. I'm going to go out. So they find
Speaker 3: this buck on this hillside just cover. The buck was
Speaker 3: getting covered with snow, but it was blowing off enough,
Speaker 3: or it was bedded down there. You know, these bucks
Speaker 3: on Kodiak are tough. Roy gets forty yards away and
Speaker 3: Dwight said he couldn't even watch Roy. He's supposed to
Speaker 3: be filming him, but he had to look away because
Speaker 3: the snow was coming in, stinging his face so bad
Speaker 3: he could not and he couldn't show his hands, so
Speaker 3: he's turn and he said. Roy was sitting there bare
Speaker 3: hands because it's hard to shoot with gloves on if
Speaker 3: you're not used to it, and bear face and sitting
Speaker 3: there forty yards and I think for two hours. Finally
Speaker 3: that buck stood up and Dwight couldn't even face. He
Speaker 3: had to have his back to Roy. But buck stood up.
Speaker 3: Roy killed it. Who the hell else would be out?
Speaker 3: You couldn't see anywhere snow it being you've been stuck
Speaker 3: there for three weeks. Basically, Roy still had that tag
Speaker 3: and went filled it in. So that's I mean, that's
Speaker 3: the kind of attitude it takes sometimes, Yeah, And that's
Speaker 3: what a lot of people don't have.
Speaker 1: No, they don't.
Speaker 6: I didn't have it when I was running after that.
Speaker 1: No you did not? Well that Max next and Max
Speaker 1: facing down that Avelina.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys faltered. Man. If you guys could could
Speaker 3: have hunted with Roy, Oh, I would give anything for that.
Speaker 3: He was like he made everybody better. Everybody's like he
Speaker 3: was so optimistic. It just changes it. It changes people.
Speaker 7: Sounds like it would have been a bow hunter, now
Speaker 7: what you would have Yeah, if I got with Roy?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, he uh yeah.
Speaker 1: He was just no you speak of him fondly man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, Well, thanks for joining Pitch black Out. We're
Speaker 1: gonna shut her down. This outside, dude, it needs four
Speaker 1: walls and some light.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to say thank you, Thanks Steve, thanks
Speaker 3: meat Eater for allowing me to come here. It's an
Speaker 3: honor to be on the podcast. I told you yesterday
Speaker 3: we did Rogan's podcast. I think you and Joe are
Speaker 3: like the most powerful voices in hunting, and it's just
Speaker 3: it's an honor to be able to finally hunt with
Speaker 3: you man, spend time with your crew and all the
Speaker 3: guy you know. I mean, it's it's just I can't
Speaker 3: express how thankful I am oh.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, appreciate it. Thanks for including that.
Speaker 7: It's been a lot of fun, learned a lot from
Speaker 7: your Thanks a.
Speaker 8: Lot, Thanks Cam, Thank you, Matt.
Speaker 10: With Europe in nineteen forty three, As are spreading through
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