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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lambert and I'm Farah Dowdy. And this week

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to do something on Darius the Great.

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Speaker 1: He's been suggested a lot, he's been on our list.

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Speaker 1: I think he's so great. He's great. He's been on

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Speaker 1: our list since the Porous and Alexander of the Battle

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Speaker 1: of the Hydasp. Yeah. So I was looking over Darius's

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Speaker 1: life trying to figure out something cool, and I found

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Speaker 1: this historical coincidence that was just too good to pass up.

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Speaker 1: Just last month was the two thousand, five hundredth anniversary

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Speaker 1: of the Battle of Marathon. How how great is that?

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Speaker 1: Probably most of you have heard about the Battle of Marathon.

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Speaker 1: Here's the legend again if you need a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a refresher. After the Greek city state of Athens

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Speaker 1: defeats the Persians at Marathon, the run our Fidipities is

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Speaker 1: dispatched to deliver the news to Athens. He runs approximately

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Speaker 1: twenty five miles at top speed, delivers his message, and

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Speaker 1: then collapses on the spot and dies. And it's the

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Speaker 1: birth of the twenty six point two mile marathon. And

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Speaker 1: interestingly enough, we have a running store in Atlanta named

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Speaker 1: after Fidipoties. That's where I've always gotten my running shoes,

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Speaker 1: so I think that's probably where I first heard this

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Speaker 1: the big running company. Girl, I will fight you, well,

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Speaker 1: you're missing out on your Greek history then at least.

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Speaker 1: But we've also been editing marathon content, so I really

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Speaker 1: had to go with this. Yeah, lots of it for

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Speaker 1: the site. As you know, we work for how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com and we did this huge suite on

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Speaker 1: marathon content, so we were reading it for weeks, all

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Speaker 1: this running stuff. I think I've even had the Fidipities

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Speaker 1: myth pop up in an article. So anyways, that's what

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about today. But there's a lot

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Speaker 1: more to the Battle of Marathon than that little Fidipity story.

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Speaker 1: And because the topic was inspired by Darius, I thought

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Speaker 1: it's only right for us to start with the Persians

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Speaker 1: and Cyrus the Great. So the Persians under Cyrus the

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Speaker 1: Great had created this enormous empire, but you couldn't rule

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Speaker 1: it centrally because it was so huge, So they had

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Speaker 1: these governors called say traps. And speaking of huge. This

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Speaker 1: empire eventually covers Asia Minor southwest Asia, even as far

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Speaker 1: as the eastern boundaries of Europe. So try to get

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Speaker 1: this in your mind for a minute, just to understand

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Speaker 1: the scope and the stakes of what we'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about exactly. So in five two b c. Darius the First,

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Speaker 1: who's later Darius the Great, succeeds Cyrus, and he's not

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Speaker 1: supposed to. It's not like he's his Air or something.

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Speaker 1: And the story behind this is a little sketchy and

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Speaker 1: kind of up in the air. There's definitely some revisionist

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Speaker 1: history at play about what really happened. But according to

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Speaker 1: the history by Herodotus, who also gives us our first

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Speaker 1: existing account of the Battle of Marathon, we'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about him later. Darius was suspected of plotting as a youth,

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Speaker 1: so he was sent out, and after Cyrus's son and

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Speaker 1: Air dies, he comes back to town. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: this power vacuum and he's hoping that he'll be the

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Speaker 1: guy to fill it. Supposedly, he kills Cyrus's other son, Bardia,

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Speaker 1: who had himself usurped the throne. So try to keep

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Speaker 1: all this straight. Then Darius defends the murder by saying

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Speaker 1: that Bartia wasn't really Bartia. He like this, he was

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Speaker 1: this impost. Royal impostors keep popping up, usually royal impost

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Speaker 1: so it's nice to have it with the Persians as well.

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Speaker 1: So Darius is essentially making the claim, well, I was

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Speaker 1: killing an impostor, and really I'm just restoring the royal

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Speaker 1: dynasty back to power, because you know, I'm from this

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Speaker 1: minor branch of the family. I think we call that spin, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so. But what a great story. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: now Darius has a hard place to run this giant empire.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of revolts throughout it, even revolts in

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Speaker 1: Persia itself with another man who's claiming to be Bardia.

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Speaker 1: Lots of royal posters, but Darius and the generals suppress

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Speaker 1: all of them in Babylon and in Egypt. But now

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Speaker 1: he needs to strengthen these frontiers and make sure that

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Speaker 1: everything is capacetic with the nomad. So he's got to

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Speaker 1: cover a huge area to do this. To the Caspian

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Speaker 1: seed in this valley, he can't chase the European Scythians

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Speaker 1: very far because they've already torn up the countryside and

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Speaker 1: there aren't any supplies to do so, and there's also

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Speaker 1: some expansion. Yeah, so I mean at a certain point,

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Speaker 1: you can't just once you've stabilized your existing empire, you

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Speaker 1: need to start making it bigger because he again, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to support for Steplis and that whole empire,

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Speaker 1: you need more cities and more territory and more tribute

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Speaker 1: money pouring in. So Darius is casting his eyes about

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Speaker 1: looking for places to expand, and it's Greece seems like

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Speaker 1: the natural place to go because all the approaches are

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Speaker 1: already in Persian hands. The Black Sea is in Persian control,

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Speaker 1: and it just seems like the natural buffer to Europe,

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Speaker 1: or maybe even more than a buffer, a good way

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Speaker 1: to get to Europe. Plus, it's kind of the only

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Speaker 1: viable option because to the east was Indian Asia, and

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Speaker 1: that was just a little too risky and unknown for

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Speaker 1: Darius to go. You know, it's a good way to

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Speaker 1: over extend yourself, go invade Asia. To the west was

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Speaker 1: the Libyan desert, which not being convading the desert kind

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Speaker 1: of hard going. And to the north we had those

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Speaker 1: crazy Scythians, so uh, tearing up the land. Greece seems

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Speaker 1: like the best way to go. But Greece is sort

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Speaker 1: of messing up Darius's plans because it's made of all

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Speaker 1: these independence loving city states which really do not want

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Speaker 1: to become part of the Persian Empire. So let's go

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Speaker 1: back to that stay trap setup. We think it goes

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Speaker 1: without saying that some of these local governors were complete tyrants,

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Speaker 1: but of course you'd almost have to be if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to enrich your own person and still squeeze out

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Speaker 1: a tribute for Darius from your people. And it's also

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Speaker 1: not surprising that some of the Greek cities of Asia Minor,

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Speaker 1: who are ruled by Persian stay traps, might envy Athens

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Speaker 1: because they have their famous social experiment just starting up.

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Speaker 1: So the first ascent comes from the island of Naxis

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Speaker 1: in five O two b C. And the Naxians end

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Speaker 1: up drawing in this other city, the Ionian city of

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Speaker 1: my leaders. And it's not quite in the way you

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Speaker 1: would expect, though. It's not two cities working out this

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Speaker 1: nice deal with each other. They want help from my

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Speaker 1: lead us as despotic ruler. But he's a sneaky guy

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Speaker 1: and he thinks that he can maybe play the Naxians

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Speaker 1: and still be loyal to the Persians. So the ruler agrees,

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Speaker 1: but he really plans to let this rebellion play out,

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Speaker 1: see what happens, and then take the island for himself

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Speaker 1: when it's all done. So to to further that goal,

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Speaker 1: to make it happens, he unlist the help of Darius's

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Speaker 1: own brother, who's the satrap of Lydia, which is Turkey today,

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Speaker 1: but then everything falls apart from him. The plot fails,

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Speaker 1: the double playing doesn't work out. He's left owing Darius,

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Speaker 1: and Darius's brother promises that he can't deliver anymore. He

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Speaker 1: has one option, and that's to rebel himself. So his

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Speaker 1: revolt starts a whole chain of revolts, which is very

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Speaker 1: annoying for the Persians and for Darius, and Athens gets

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Speaker 1: drawn in in b C when it, along with Eritrea,

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Speaker 1: starts meddling in all of these Ionian revolts. So Athens

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Speaker 1: is a target now, and after the rebellions are squashed,

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Speaker 1: Darius gives his son in law command of his fleet

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Speaker 1: to go sack Athens and Eritrea, but the fleet is

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Speaker 1: lost in a freak storm near Mount Athos in four two,

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Speaker 1: so they have to send out a second fleet. In

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Speaker 1: four ninety they managed to see times, they managed to

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Speaker 1: sack Eritrea and enslave all of its citizens, and Darius

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Speaker 1: figures that the other Greek cities probably won't want to

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Speaker 1: meet with this same fate. They're not going to want

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Speaker 1: to face off with the Persian forces, so he sends

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Speaker 1: his emissaries to ask them to surrender, and plenty of

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Speaker 1: them can see most of northern Greece and Macedonia, but

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Speaker 1: Athens will not, and neither will Sparta, who actually kill

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Speaker 1: the emissary sending a bold message. So okay, then Athens

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Speaker 1: is next on the list, and the Persians get ready

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Speaker 1: to fight. They've come over in six hundred ships, and

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Speaker 1: their strong suit is cavalry, so they want to pick

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Speaker 1: a place where their cavalry can really shine, and they

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Speaker 1: select the Plane of Marathon, which is about twenty five

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Speaker 1: miles outside of Athens, as we mentioned in the Fidipites intro.

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Speaker 1: But it's this wide open space, you know, the perfect

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Speaker 1: place for a cavalry to to charge. And the Athenians

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Speaker 1: sent a runner to Sparta to get help because they're thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is about to go down miles outside of the city.

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Speaker 1: We need to get some reinforcements quickly. So this is

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Speaker 1: where fidipities actually comes in. He does a hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty miles in two days by his own account. Pan

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Speaker 1: stops him on the way and asks, you know why

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Speaker 1: as in the god. Pan stops him and asks why

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Speaker 1: hasn't Athens been honoring him like they should? And he says, okay,

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Speaker 1: I promise you know, if this all works out, will

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Speaker 1: really take care of you Pan. But I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: this is maybe hallucinations from an ultramara ultramarathon fidipities. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. The Spartans say that they'll help, but only

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Speaker 1: after their religious festival is over, and unfortunately for the Athenians,

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Speaker 1: this is a multi day religious festival. It's going to

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Speaker 1: keep going and going. The answer is basically no, we

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Speaker 1: won't help. Yes, but only when it's convenient for us.

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Speaker 1: So our Athenians have three choices. They can meet the

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Speaker 1: Persians at Marathon, they can try to defend the pass

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Speaker 1: at Paulini, or they can stay and defend their city.

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Speaker 1: They choose Marathon. Yeah, and that's because the Athenian navy,

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Speaker 1: despite its later reputation is not that strong at this point.

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Speaker 1: It never could have matched Persia's and a siege of

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Speaker 1: Athens probably wouldn't have worked out very well for them either,

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Speaker 1: because it would have been quite easy for Persia to

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Speaker 1: cut off the food supplies. You just would be left

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Speaker 1: to starve within the city walls. So Marathon is actually

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Speaker 1: looking like a pretty good option. I mean, as far

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Speaker 1: as their options go. The Persians have their backs to

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Speaker 1: the water and the Athenian flanks are protected by swamps,

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Speaker 1: so you can't, you know, come around behind them and

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Speaker 1: get them. There's just one thing that can't happen. The Athenians,

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Speaker 1: who are mostly hop light infantrymen, can't attack while the

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Speaker 1: Persian calorie is in place. They will absolutely be crushed.

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Speaker 1: So as long as they can avoid that, they have

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Speaker 1: a fighting chance. So we should probably give you a

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Speaker 1: little explanation of what a hap light is before we

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Speaker 1: go too much further, since they're the key to this

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Speaker 1: whole thing. It's pretty much what you'd imagine from a

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Speaker 1: movie with Greek soldiers. Their infantrymen with nine foot spears.

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Speaker 1: They have swords, they have a big breast plate and

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Speaker 1: huge shields that, in this case are emblazoned with Pegasus,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like the makings of a pretty good Halloween costume.

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Speaker 1: And they're grouped in these phalanxes of men eight by eight,

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Speaker 1: and these are very maneuverable and strongly defended on all sides,

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Speaker 1: so they can link their shields together. You've got a

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Speaker 1: pretty good thing area. So after the Athenians get to Marathon,

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Speaker 1: both of these camps wait and wait and wait for

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Speaker 1: nine days, which again reminded us of the king Porus

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Speaker 1: battle the Battle of Hydaspes. So if you're wondering why

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Speaker 1: we're waiting for nine days, the Persians don't think that

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Speaker 1: they have anything to lose, so the longer they stay

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Speaker 1: looking intimidating, the more frightened the Greeks will become. You know,

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Speaker 1: psychological warfare can always doubt exactly. And the Athenians are

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Speaker 1: hoping that the Spartans will show up, because the Spartans

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Speaker 1: are pretty darn scary and in a reputation for it

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Speaker 1: even in Persia exactly, they might frighten the Persian So

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Speaker 1: both sides are hoping to scare the dickens out of

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Speaker 1: each other. But Greece might also lose more cities while

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Speaker 1: everyone is just sitting around, so they do have something

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Speaker 1: to lose, and they have a meeting. Should be attack

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Speaker 1: or should we wait? And the ten Athenian generals votes

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Speaker 1: straight down the middle for fighting versus waiting. So someone

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Speaker 1: has to make a decision, okay, So the general Miltiades

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Speaker 1: puts the decision to Klimachus, who's a civil official, and

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Speaker 1: he votes to attack. So for General's hand over their

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Speaker 1: command to Miltiades, and we're gonna go. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be a fight. The Athenians are going to charge, So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna give you some numbers before we start. And

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Speaker 1: there's a wide discrepancy um the Athenians ten thousand half

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Speaker 1: lights plus a thousand non Athenians who have come in

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Speaker 1: to help the Persians. The number in some places as

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Speaker 1: as high as forty eight thousand or just fifteen thousands,

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Speaker 1: so it depends on who's who's talking there. Um. But

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Speaker 1: before dawn on September, the Greeks learn that the Persian

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Speaker 1: cavalry is absent from the field. And remember it's the

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Speaker 1: cavalry that they just absolutely cannot face, at least not

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Speaker 1: without the help of the Spartans. But we don't know

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Speaker 1: why No, that's kind of weird. We don't know why

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Speaker 1: the cavalry is gaunt where they are, and then the

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Speaker 1: boats are they off, you know, maybe re embarked for

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Speaker 1: a possible attack on Athens some other reason, but whyever,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever the reason is, that they're gone, they're gone,

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Speaker 1: and now is the time to attack. According to Herodotus,

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Speaker 1: the Greeks advance at a run there, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: mile away. The Persians get ready, but it's clear that

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Speaker 1: the Athenians will be there soon, much sooner than they

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Speaker 1: were planning on them arriving. It seems kind of like

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Speaker 1: a suicidal mission on the Athenia. They're running straight at us,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding? But then the Persians are starting to realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: actually they're going to be here really soon, and judging

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Speaker 1: by later excavations of the Athenian dead, the Persians were

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Speaker 1: showering arrows at the running infantry um but not many

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Speaker 1: of them are hit. Yeah. So the Athenian commanders also

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Speaker 1: have a very good understanding of Persian battle techniques, and

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Speaker 1: Maltiatis even fought in the Persian army, so they know

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Speaker 1: that the Persians around their fighters with the very best

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Speaker 1: guys the true citizens in the middle, and then they

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Speaker 1: put their conscripts on the edges on the flanks. So

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Speaker 1: these are people from the states they've conquered, probably not

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Speaker 1: terribly invested in the fight, maybe just trying to get

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Speaker 1: out of it alive. Key point for you. So the

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Speaker 1: Greeks put their best half lights on the flanks and

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Speaker 1: thin out towards the middle, because of course they don't

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Speaker 1: have enough guys to have a universal coverage across the field,

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Speaker 1: so putting all theirs on the edge, so they'll be

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Speaker 1: fighting all the conscripts exactly. So the Persian center, which

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Speaker 1: is its strongest point, comes through cutting down these thinned

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Speaker 1: Greek forces, thinking this is gonna be so easy, not

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Speaker 1: hard at all. Meanwhile, the heavy Greek flanks, where all

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Speaker 1: the best guys are and the most guys are, are

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Speaker 1: tearing through those Persian flanks of conscripts, and the conscripts

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Speaker 1: at this point are starting to break formation and flee,

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Speaker 1: trying to get out while they can. And instead of

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Speaker 1: pursuing these fleeing conscripts, the Greeks turn in to help

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Speaker 1: their men in the middle. So the Persians are now

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Speaker 1: surrounded on three sides. Think of the Greeks, creating a

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Speaker 1: sort of pocket. Persians have just fallen into the pocket,

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Speaker 1: and the Persians completely panic. Their best weapon, bow and arrow,

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Speaker 1: is useless in close combat. Their wicker shields have nothing

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Speaker 1: on the Pegasus shields, and they start fleeing to their ships.

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Speaker 1: Some Athenians get into the ships. They're killing the Persians aboard.

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Speaker 1: They pull in the ships from the They pull them

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Speaker 1: in like with ropes them okay, And at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, we have six thousand, four hundred dead

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Speaker 1: Persians and only one d Athenians have perished. And finally

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Speaker 1: the Spartans show up, and after everything's over, they're not

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Speaker 1: even completely convinced that the Athenians have won. They tore

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Speaker 1: the battle field and they realized that the Athenians did win.

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Speaker 1: Their Oh, great, guys, good work, thanks for the help Sparta.

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Speaker 1: So the Athenians, though, can't just rejoice in this triumphant victory.

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Speaker 1: They've got to get moving to defend Athens. So they

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Speaker 1: march double time back to the city, get there before

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Speaker 1: the Persian ships, and we have Athens coming out on top.

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Speaker 1: And they turn this victory into a major propaganda They

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Speaker 1: put it in every available news outlet. They can find

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Speaker 1: um just sort of building it to mythical proportions almost immediately.

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Speaker 1: They even used the spoils of the battle to build

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Speaker 1: the Athenian Treasury at Delphi. But the wind allows them

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Speaker 1: to continue this little political experiment that they started not

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Speaker 1: that long before, and it also makes them a lot

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Speaker 1: more confident, probably a little too confident in the resulting history.

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Speaker 1: But when it's pretty obvious at the Persians are going

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Speaker 1: to come back, They're not going to be defeated in

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Speaker 1: this one battle and then stay away forever. But their

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Speaker 1: third expedition is delayed for about ten years as a

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Speaker 1: rebellion in Egypt. Darius dies and that gives Greece plenty

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Speaker 1: of time to get ready. And we also have some

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Speaker 1: random facts on Darius. Since we're not doing a biography

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Speaker 1: this time, we're talking about an actual event, we had

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Speaker 1: some things we didn't quite know where to stick in.

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Speaker 1: Darius was known as being quite the administrator. That's probably

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Speaker 1: his best reputation, even though he did help expand the

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Speaker 1: empire quite a bit. But he standardized the coinage and

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Speaker 1: the weights and measures for the empire, and lots of

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Speaker 1: exploration on new trade routes and actually before these Greek

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Speaker 1: invasions even started, he had sent out ships to thoroughly

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Speaker 1: scout the coastline, so you know, he hoped he knew

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Speaker 1: what he was getting into. And then another interesting point

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Speaker 1: about him. He did respect native religion, so it's not

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Speaker 1: like coming in and forcing everyone to be Persian. You

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Speaker 1: still have to pay your tribute. But he was cool

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Speaker 1: if you worshiped your Egyptian gods. He went as far

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Speaker 1: as to build a temple to the god amen Um

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Speaker 1: and helped restore other religious sites in Egypt. And he's

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Speaker 1: the one who authorized the building of the temple at Jerusalem.

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Speaker 1: Has come up in a couple of podcasts at least,

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Speaker 1: and as our last note on the Battle of Marathon,

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Speaker 1: the Carlos Museum at Emory University hosted a marathon through

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Speaker 1: campus to commemorate the anniversary. Apparently, Sarah and I both

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Speaker 1: sent the link to Candice Keener, who used to host

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Speaker 1: the podcast, but there was no respondent. Very unenthusiastic, I thought,

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Speaker 1: but for the rest of you, you know, maybe and

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Speaker 1: you can send us your marathon stories. I had thought

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Speaker 1: about doing a half last year and then realized I

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Speaker 1: can barely run a mile, so we're postponing that goal

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Speaker 1: for a little bit. I've done one half it was fun,

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Speaker 1: wait and one at me Sarah, Well, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I don't think i'd ever go for a full and

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Speaker 1: definitely not the real fidipities length of hundred and fifty miles.

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Speaker 1: Maybe next lesson. It's in a car. You can work

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Speaker 1: up to it, Sarah. So if you have some story

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Speaker 1: where you can manage to tie in history and marathon

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Speaker 1: a personal story, one will be really proud of you,

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Speaker 1: and two will read it. Email us at History podcast

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Speaker 1: and how Stuff Works dot com. But that brings us

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Speaker 1: to our listener mail for today. Today's listener mail is

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Speaker 1: highly unusual in that it speaks if you want to

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Speaker 1: listen to it, and we have been hitting this in

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Speaker 1: the office, some might say a little too much, like

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Speaker 1: our editorial area is usually pretty quiet, lots of writers

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Speaker 1: and editors hard at work, except for Jonathan Strickland the

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Speaker 1: text stuff, who is very loud. And except for the

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Speaker 1: no button, which yeah, it's this little red button and

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Speaker 1: you push it and it has several varieties of no.

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Speaker 1: It's perfect for editorial meetings maybe podcasts Sarah suggests. Something

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Speaker 1: I don't like I think so. So we got this

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Speaker 1: from Amy and Vinnie in Connecticut, and I think they

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Speaker 1: manufacture these no buttons. But um, they mentioned that they've

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Speaker 1: thought of some good times when the no button would

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Speaker 1: have come in handy and history, you know, just times

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Speaker 1: when it would have been best for someone to say no.

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Speaker 1: And I can think of maybe a few just from

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Speaker 1: this episode here, like how about Spartan, you want to

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Speaker 1: come come help us fight the Persians? We don't have

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Speaker 1: a maybe later button. I think they suggested a few

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Speaker 1: of their own that didn't they they did. Um, let's

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Speaker 1: see abe. I hear that there's a good show playing

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Speaker 1: at the Ford Theater tonight. Want to go No? No

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Speaker 1: goes on like that. You got to change the course

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Speaker 1: of history, and perhaps you can imagine how our day

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Speaker 1: went on all the examples we've been thinking of. So

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Speaker 1: what are your best no responses that would have changed

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Speaker 1: the course of history? Email us at history pot has

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Speaker 1: to how stuff works dot com. We're also on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at missed in History, and we have a Facebook hand page,

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Speaker 1: And if you'd like to pretend your fidipities for a

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Speaker 1: little bit, We've got an article called how ultramarathons work

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Speaker 1: that you can search for on our homepage at www

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Speaker 1: dot how stuff works dot com. For more on this

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot

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Speaker 1: com and be sure to check out the stuff you

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Speaker 1: missed in History Glass Blog on the how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com home page