Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 2: In a bright egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg,
Speaker 2: Frida Egg egggg, Frida Egg bride.
Speaker 3: Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the gulf.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast.
Speaker 3: Today's episode is with Zach Blair. Zach is a return visitor.
Speaker 3: It's been a while. I think the last time we
Speaker 3: talked to him moves before he started construction at the
Speaker 3: Tree Farm. So it's as the tree Farm finishes it
Speaker 3: is I think about ninety percent done, it will begin
Speaker 3: to start preview play in in the spring. I was
Speaker 3: excited to talk to Zach about the project building a
Speaker 3: golf course, but also his return to the PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: He's back on tour after a long break due to
Speaker 3: a shoulder injury. So, without further ado, here is Zach
Speaker 3: player zb You're back back on the pod. It's been
Speaker 3: a minute. Golf course got built in the time that
Speaker 3: you've been off the pod. Yeah, I got it, got it.
Speaker 3: Got to ask first right out of the gate. I've
Speaker 3: always wondered. I always wanted to ask somebody, what's major
Speaker 3: medical life like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty crazy, you know, for you know,
Speaker 2: right after surgery and the end of twenty twenty, kind
Speaker 2: of couldn't do anything for basically like eight months. So
Speaker 2: just got to hang out at home and you know,
Speaker 2: make make some trips to the tree farm every once
Speaker 2: in a while, I go see what's going on out there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was just basically just hanging out.
Speaker 3: Was that the longest break from golf that you can
Speaker 3: remember in your life?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. I mean it went you know, COVID
Speaker 2: not playing any competitive golf for however long. That was
Speaker 2: then kind of back, you know for a couple of
Speaker 2: months straight into you know, getting hurt and not being
Speaker 2: able to golf for a couple of years. It was
Speaker 2: pretty wild.
Speaker 3: What's what's it been like being back on tour after
Speaker 3: such a long break.
Speaker 2: I mean it was great, you know, right out of
Speaker 2: the gates, played good at Stafeway. That was I guess
Speaker 2: it's the fortnite now, you know. It was just cool
Speaker 2: to be playing professional golf again. You know, you kind
Speaker 2: of waiting to kind of see if you can still
Speaker 2: actually compete and play and do it for a week
Speaker 2: or two at a time, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: it was cool for me to actually be like, okay, still,
Speaker 2: I'm still okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's uh.
Speaker 3: I mean, was there anything that you felt like now
Speaker 3: that you've been kind of back in the swing, you've
Speaker 3: been playing a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, you played last week, you're playing this week.
Speaker 3: Is there anything that you feel like you kind of
Speaker 3: took for granted and now that you're back, you're kind
Speaker 3: of like, oh, yeah, like I forgot about that.
Speaker 2: You know, there are things, there's a lot of things
Speaker 2: out here that have changed a little bit. You know,
Speaker 2: I did my I did my handful of rehab starts,
Speaker 2: and you know, you're kind of you have to rent
Speaker 2: a car and you have to do all these things
Speaker 2: that aren't like a big deal at all, you know,
Speaker 2: like total like first world problems. But then you know
Speaker 2: out here it's like they got the bmw X stix
Speaker 2: for you at the Amex, you know, and you know
Speaker 2: you're eating like really good food in the clubhouse. So
Speaker 2: it's it's little things like that that you're just kind
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, this is definitely where you want to be.
Speaker 3: What you know, what what were some of the What
Speaker 3: are some of the things that have changed that you
Speaker 3: alluded to, like would have been the biggest changes since
Speaker 3: you've been gone.
Speaker 2: You know, they definitely have kind of upped how they
Speaker 2: treat caddies. I would say, you know, you're you're actually allowed,
Speaker 2: you know, in the clubhouse and in the locker room,
Speaker 2: where before it was like, you know, you could maybe
Speaker 2: sneak in and drop a player's bag off, but sometimes
Speaker 2: they wouldn't let you. Now it's like the caddies can
Speaker 2: can be in the locker room and you know, in
Speaker 2: the clubhouse and stuff like that. So you know, having
Speaker 2: the rushing out. I keep telling him, I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: you're lucky you started doing this this year because you know,
Speaker 2: you're you're actually like a person. They're treating you like
Speaker 2: you know they should be. So that's one.
Speaker 3: And maybe they changed it because they knew he was
Speaker 3: coming out. They wanted to impress him, you know.
Speaker 2: That's what I yeah, I mean, that was the first
Speaker 2: thing I thought for sure. You know, another one, another
Speaker 2: thing kind of on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of events that have They might be
Speaker 2: getting back into it a little bit, but there are
Speaker 2: a handful events like this week at the Farmers like
Speaker 2: no courtesy cars, which is kind of like crazy, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And I think they during the
Speaker 2: right right on the comeback out of COVID, they started
Speaker 2: doing that a little bit more, and you know, I
Speaker 2: think they're starting to kind of get some events where
Speaker 2: they do the courtesy cars and stuff. But that is
Speaker 2: one that's like, holy cow, it is crazy. You know.
Speaker 1: That's that shut out.
Speaker 3: That shuttle ride to the San Diego rental car is
Speaker 3: no joke. That's like a fifteen minute ride.
Speaker 2: Luckily, I had my I had my truck out, you know,
Speaker 2: parked it in Palm Springs before we went to Hawaii,
Speaker 2: and you know, have it for the whole West Coast.
Speaker 2: But I think I was lucky this week because I
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't even know. But you know, again like
Speaker 2: total first world problems. But I did remember one thing
Speaker 2: that you asked that was like, uh, the first question
Speaker 2: when you're like, you know, coming back, like, what were
Speaker 2: some things that were you know, nice to have nice
Speaker 2: to make some money. Actually, you know, I went two
Speaker 2: years you know, without making any having no income. Basically
Speaker 2: that's it's a long time not to not to make
Speaker 2: any money, so you know, golfing for money is cool.
Speaker 3: How does that work? Does like the I've always what
Speaker 3: do you make? Would you say tournament ends? Does like
Speaker 3: the does the check hit? You're like, I assume everything's
Speaker 3: direct to positive? Does it direct positive? Like Monday?
Speaker 1: Is it like Tuesday? Does it?
Speaker 2: I think it's usually like Monday. I think it's a Tuesday.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's got to be amazing.
Speaker 2: It's pretty nice. Yeah. Yeah, again for you know, not
Speaker 2: not having that happen for two years, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was on a major medical so you like, they
Speaker 2: have some insurance policy that kicks in after you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's like six months you have to
Speaker 2: be out before you start getting like I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is, like ten or fifteen, twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I don't know what exactly it is. But then I
Speaker 2: had to basically get off of that at the start
Speaker 2: of this year or the start of last year, excuse me,
Speaker 2: like way before I even started golfing again. But that's when, like,
Speaker 2: you know, basically the doctor was kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: his shoulders like recovered, you know, he's recovered and he
Speaker 2: can start practicing again. There wasn't. I guess there wasn't
Speaker 2: like great communication between like whoever does the insurance policy
Speaker 2: and like the surgeon and the doctors and my physical
Speaker 2: therapists and everything, because I wasn't starting, you know, to
Speaker 2: play until August basically, so I went, like I legit
Speaker 2: went basically like from January to August without you know,
Speaker 2: like any income, no money. And I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: that sucks because you hear about some of these guys
Speaker 2: that are on these medicals for you know, ten years,
Speaker 2: and you know they're just cashing in this fifteen or
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars check. I was like, gosh, damn, that
Speaker 2: would be would have been sick. I would have just
Speaker 2: stayed on that thing forever.
Speaker 1: Well, I think some of them have. That's maybe the problem.
Speaker 3: They're getting two whys to the guys that have been
Speaker 3: muchen that have you know, the degenerat of tow or
Speaker 3: something that is for hiving them from playing. What's What's
Speaker 3: been the toughest thing about coming back the travel.
Speaker 2: You know, traveling sucks. Like being able to just be
Speaker 2: at home with my family for two years was kind
Speaker 2: of like wow, this is like pretty awesome, Like get
Speaker 2: to see my kids grow up, get to just hang
Speaker 2: out with you know, my wife and the dogs and
Speaker 2: the kids every single day and just go out and
Speaker 2: you know, take the dogs out for a walk and
Speaker 2: go take Charlie to the golf course. Like that's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Then when you have to get on a plane and
Speaker 2: not see them for four weeks, you're kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this gets pretty old pretty quick.
Speaker 3: I do you feel like travel your your mentality to
Speaker 3: travel really change with uh?
Speaker 1: With having kids?
Speaker 3: And because I feel like, you know, when I for
Speaker 3: people that follow you on Instagram or you know, over
Speaker 3: the years, it's like, you know, your travel was you
Speaker 3: go play some of the best courses of the world.
Speaker 3: And obviously, you know, I think I share some of
Speaker 3: the sentiment with travel, but has it. Do you feel
Speaker 3: like your mentality towards it really changed with kids?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, because you know, before kids, it was
Speaker 2: just me and my wife, you know, and she could
Speaker 2: go anywhere and not have to worry about anything and
Speaker 2: you know, take do whatever she wanted. Right now now
Speaker 2: it's like, do you really want to take the show
Speaker 2: on the road. It's like it's already hard enough with
Speaker 2: It's already hard enough at home. You know, and then
Speaker 2: you're like, well do you want to do that? Like dude,
Speaker 2: when we when we packed, when we went to Hawaii,
Speaker 2: we had to have like multiple cars go to the
Speaker 2: airport just for like me, my wife, you know, the
Speaker 2: two kids, and you know my wife's mom. It was
Speaker 2: like seven eight bags, the golf clubs, the you know,
Speaker 2: the pack and play all the kids stuff, Like it's
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. So, I mean, it's totally different.
Speaker 1: It's funny.
Speaker 3: I saw when I was when I was covering the open,
Speaker 3: we the Russics was like right next door to the
Speaker 3: dorm that I was saying, talk about like a you know,
Speaker 3: different class citizen. Right totally, I'm stayed at college dorm
Speaker 3: and across the across the street from the Russicks.
Speaker 1: But I'll never forget Monday morning.
Speaker 3: I can't remember who the player was, but it was
Speaker 3: like a flair that had a kid and they were
Speaker 3: packed up this this suv and they you know, they've
Speaker 3: spent a couple of weeks abroad with the kid, and
Speaker 3: anybody that's traveled with a young kid, it's just it's
Speaker 3: it's like going to war. When you travel, like you know,
Speaker 3: like the day you're going to the airport and feel
Speaker 3: and I don't I don't mean the mischaracterized going of war,
Speaker 3: but like mentally you have to like prepare yourself for
Speaker 3: like a lot of different outcomes, and you're just it's
Speaker 3: like you're on it, like you have like that. It's
Speaker 3: almost like term of golf, like you have like a
Speaker 3: nervous energy about you all day that like really at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you like are drained.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so bad. I'm so bad at it too. Thankfully,
Speaker 2: my wife is like unbelievable and you know, can kind
Speaker 2: of tolerate a much higher level than me with all
Speaker 2: of this stuff. But I'm like, one thing happens and
Speaker 2: I'm like I'm gone, Like I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 2: hands on my head, Like how am I going to
Speaker 2: get through this day? Like I don't think I'm cut
Speaker 2: out to be a dad?
Speaker 3: So are you you know, with how are you planning
Speaker 3: your schedule with? Obviously, like does that factor into how
Speaker 3: you plan now? And obviously you know, the tour, the
Speaker 3: setup and the events have changed a lot since you've
Speaker 3: been out, but it does, like home time and prioritizing
Speaker 3: some time at home now factor into how you plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this year, So I have like eighteen starts left
Speaker 2: or something like that, and the schedule just kind of
Speaker 2: works out that there's you know, like seventeen or eighteen
Speaker 2: more events that are you know, full point events, you
Speaker 2: know that I'll kind of get in, you know, So
Speaker 2: I just kind of based my schedule off of kind
Speaker 2: of what I would get in, and you know, it
Speaker 2: kind of worked out pretty good where there's a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks on, a couple weeks off, and it just
Speaker 2: kind of goes goes about that basically till the end
Speaker 2: of the year. So it wasn't too hard.
Speaker 3: Being away from golf, from competitive golf, like change at
Speaker 3: all the way you thought about golf when you came back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right when I came back, I started, like I said,
Speaker 2: kind of these handful of rehab starts on the corn
Speaker 2: Ferry Tour, and I mean it was really just about
Speaker 2: like a lot of patients, you know, playing really really
Speaker 2: smart kind of bogey avoidance, and it was all about
Speaker 2: like can I make for less bogies like for the
Speaker 2: entire week? And I did a really good job with
Speaker 2: that on the web, and I did a really good
Speaker 2: job of that that first week back at at the
Speaker 2: fortinet and then it's kind of like gone out the
Speaker 2: window from then on basically, you know. But I mean
Speaker 2: it really kind of allowed me to kind of step
Speaker 2: back those couple of years and just be like, you know,
Speaker 2: I just need to like make less mistakes. Everyone just
Speaker 2: seem like they make less mistakes than me, whether it's
Speaker 2: being too aggressive or what. But that was the kind
Speaker 2: of biggest takeaway that I saw. So it's kind of
Speaker 2: getting back to, you know, can I do that? Can
Speaker 2: I do a better job of, you know, avoiding mistakes
Speaker 2: basically every week?
Speaker 1: Did you did you watch a lot of golf?
Speaker 2: There were I mean a handful of you know, you're
Speaker 2: kind of watching the majors. You know, there's a handful
Speaker 2: of people. I don't know if Tiger really ever played,
Speaker 2: I don't. I think he was kind of hurt around
Speaker 2: you know, most of that stuff. But it was kind
Speaker 2: of just the majors. And you know, if you're sitting
Speaker 2: on the couch or something on a Sunday and there's
Speaker 2: some big names, you know, in contention, you might might
Speaker 2: flip it on between you know, football or something like that,
Speaker 2: but not a time.
Speaker 3: M hm, did you I guess you obviously built a
Speaker 3: golf course and we'll get into that during this time also,
Speaker 3: which was I think probably pretty nice that it coincided.
Speaker 3: But like, what would you have done with the injury
Speaker 3: time if you didn't have building. Do you think it
Speaker 3: would have been harder to be injured and away from
Speaker 3: golf if you weren't building a golf course?
Speaker 2: I think so for sure. You know, those first handful
Speaker 2: of months, it was kind of a cool break, right,
Speaker 2: You're kind of like rehabbing, doing physical therapy and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, and you're like, Wow, this is gonna be awesome, like,
Speaker 2: you know, getting a nice break, and then you know,
Speaker 2: five or six months into it, you're like, have the
Speaker 2: itch pretty bad? To be like wow, Like I went
Speaker 2: from playing golf like multiple rounds a day every day
Speaker 2: for thirty years, you know, like thirty years of my
Speaker 2: life basically to not even being able to swing. I
Speaker 2: think it was Yeah, definitely would have been like basically
Speaker 2: impossible for me to, you know, to do anything. It
Speaker 2: was a cool like way to take my mind off it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, it's funny. I cut my figure.
Speaker 3: I've got to compare to cutting my finger, but I
Speaker 3: cut my finger really bad.
Speaker 1: A couple of like it was like a month and
Speaker 1: a half ago, and I couldn't swing.
Speaker 3: I couldn't grip a club for a while, I hit
Speaker 3: like three balls with it. Shortly after I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: no way, and then I kept like trying and it
Speaker 3: was like and like I was ended up being away
Speaker 3: for a couple like for like I basically didn't play
Speaker 3: for two months because of it, and like it at
Speaker 3: first it and this is the way I kind of
Speaker 3: always felt with winter in Chicago. It's like you get
Speaker 3: like that, like golf season ends and you're like, okay,
Speaker 3: like I can do some other stuff on weekends, like
Speaker 3: for a casual golfer like me, like I could do
Speaker 3: some other stuff. It's not like at the top of
Speaker 3: my mind on like what am I gonna do this weekend?
Speaker 3: And then like you get like two months and it's
Speaker 3: just like I really need to go play golf. Like
Speaker 3: you know, it's funny how how it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's basically exactly how it was. It was
Speaker 2: kind of my surgery was you know at the end,
Speaker 2: you know, towards the end of the year, like November
Speaker 2: if or something like that. So it was the season
Speaker 2: was kind of winding down and it was kind of
Speaker 2: you know, routine, right We're kind of shutting it down
Speaker 2: for a few months, going to hang out, you know,
Speaker 2: spend spend the holidays with the family and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, when the Masters started rolling around and
Speaker 2: you're like, holy cow, like I'm not doing this right now,
Speaker 2: it was pretty It was pretty.
Speaker 1: Tough for me the fan.
Speaker 3: It feels like, I don't know, I always look back
Speaker 3: on the year and I think the best time on
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour is like right now, Like we're in
Speaker 3: the middle of like the best period of PGA Tour golf.
Speaker 3: Does it feel like that for a player or is
Speaker 3: it just like you're just focused with like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm just curious. Do you have favorite stretches? Is there
Speaker 3: like things that like you really amped up about.
Speaker 2: I've always enjoyed the West Coast just you know, being
Speaker 2: from Utah, it's pretty easy. You know, the families always out,
Speaker 2: We're kind of driving up and down the the coast
Speaker 2: during this stretch. So I've always enjoyed it. You know,
Speaker 2: Hawaii is obviously really cool to go over there for
Speaker 2: a little bit, but so yeah, I've always I've always
Speaker 2: liked this kind of period of golf as well. After
Speaker 2: this stretch kind of when you start heading back to Florida,
Speaker 2: you know, it seems like the schedules all over the
Speaker 2: place in terms of it's kind of like a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks off and then like a few weeks off
Speaker 2: if you're not in the major, So you're kind of
Speaker 2: going on if you're not in the Major, a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks off and then back on and then you know,
Speaker 2: so it's all chopped up basically like the next three
Speaker 2: months once you kind of hit the Florida swing. So
Speaker 2: but honestly, it's kind of like every week it's just
Speaker 2: a job, right, You're trying to trying to do the
Speaker 2: best you can that week and get after it.
Speaker 3: So that Nicholas Cole starts quote or something like, I
Speaker 3: got tired of of the Saved Caesar set it every week,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: And that's why I went back to the European Tour.
Speaker 3: The let's talk about the tree Farm.
Speaker 1: I went out there.
Speaker 3: I was, uh, it was nice to see it and
Speaker 3: it's almost full full glory and it was really I
Speaker 3: haven't really talked much about it, but I was really, uh,
Speaker 3: really blown away with what you guys accomplished out there,
Speaker 3: and you know, i'd be interested from from your standpoint,
Speaker 3: what what were the differences As you're like nearing, i'd say, what,
Speaker 3: you're ninety percent done with the with the course. Yeah,
Speaker 3: differences between your original vision and the result at the
Speaker 3: Tree Farm.
Speaker 2: I mean better, you know, I think it's a lot
Speaker 2: better than I ever thought it could ever be or
Speaker 2: wouldever be, which is obviously a bonus.
Speaker 4: And you know, Kai and Tom and everybody, Matt Small
Speaker 4: and everyone that worked out there, you know, has just
Speaker 4: kind of crushed it and brought a lot of really
Speaker 4: cool ideas and you know stuff to the table and
Speaker 4: they're kind of out there right now.
Speaker 2: It's crazy to see how much it's even changed since
Speaker 2: you were out there, now that they've kind of started
Speaker 2: to kind of tie in all the edges on the
Speaker 2: front nine and stuff like that. So I think it
Speaker 2: turned out like as good or better than I could
Speaker 2: have ever thought it would have, which was always the goal. Right.
Speaker 2: It's like, if you could make a really cool golf
Speaker 2: course that people, you know, enjoy playing and like coming
Speaker 2: out to you kind of that's the start of it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, one of the things that I was taken
Speaker 3: back by was like, you know, from going there early on,
Speaker 3: going there in the middle of the project, like I
Speaker 3: knew the land was really good, but then playing the
Speaker 3: golf course as a whole, I was like, this was
Speaker 3: this is really a great piece of land. And I
Speaker 3: think that was something that stuck with me, is like,
Speaker 3: you know, I knew that, knew it was a really
Speaker 3: nice piece of ground, but then you know, when when
Speaker 3: everything is set out and laid out, it was like,
Speaker 3: this is this is a really great piece of land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I you know, when when we bought it,
Speaker 2: I had obviously never built a golf course before, but
Speaker 2: I had spent a little time out there kind of
Speaker 2: you know, walking through the trees, and it felt like
Speaker 2: it should be cool, right, It felt like it should
Speaker 2: be good, but you never really know. And then obviously
Speaker 2: Tom and Kai and you know, everybody that kind of
Speaker 2: worked on the routing did a really good job of
Speaker 2: making sure that that part of it was you know,
Speaker 2: set in place, and you know, we've had a bunch
Speaker 2: of chats about it. It's kind of like that's the starter, right,
Speaker 2: you got to make sure you get that one right,
Speaker 2: and I think we did, and you know, I think
Speaker 2: it shows off like the property in a really really
Speaker 2: great way where you uh, you know, get the visuals
Speaker 2: and you get the look of the terrain and the
Speaker 2: topography and everything like that, but you're not really kind
Speaker 2: of battling it every whole kind of up and down it.
Speaker 3: In most cases, it's like we hired X architect and
Speaker 3: he built it. You have a unique situation where obviously
Speaker 3: you were heavily involved with the golf course uh design
Speaker 3: and project and in just the vision, but you also
Speaker 3: had Kai Golby, who for those that don't know, he's
Speaker 3: a long time shaper, also had done some significant solo
Speaker 3: work before this this this project. And then you had
Speaker 3: Tom Doak, who made a couple visits to the property
Speaker 3: and really lent himself from like a routing standpoint. You know,
Speaker 3: what what aspects do you think, like, what are the
Speaker 3: things having worked with a couple with both of them,
Speaker 3: what were the things that they really excelled at.
Speaker 2: Well, Tom obviously you know, like understands everything with golf
Speaker 2: you know, our architecture in general, but but like the
Speaker 2: focus was bringing him in to help with the routing.
Speaker 2: You know, early on a lot of people, including Kai,
Speaker 2: you know, had mentioned that he would be a perfect
Speaker 2: person to maybe kind of lend a hand and help
Speaker 2: out with that, and it's something he really enjoys doing
Speaker 2: and you know, he's probably the best in the whole
Speaker 2: world at doing that. So it was really cool to
Speaker 2: just see, you know, his whole process and be involved
Speaker 2: in a in a little way and and kind of
Speaker 2: see it from start to finish, and then obviously see
Speaker 2: how the golf was built on top of his routing
Speaker 2: was really cool. And then with Kai, I mean, he's
Speaker 2: obviously so talented in the dozer and you know, like
Speaker 2: it's just like beautiful to watch him work, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, And he has like such an attention
Speaker 2: to detail, and you know, he would just be out
Speaker 2: there like just like shaping the like craziest little things
Speaker 2: that you're just like, what are you doing And then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, a day later, you know,
Speaker 2: it would like totally like change the golf hole or
Speaker 2: the green or you know, the t shot like whatever
Speaker 2: he was doing. It was just like he has such
Speaker 2: a like such a passion for doing that, and it
Speaker 2: was just really cool to kind of see that whole
Speaker 2: side of it, and he was I mean, I definitely,
Speaker 2: you know, like worked more with Kai. Tom was obviously
Speaker 2: involved in the routing, and then you know, he let
Speaker 2: me and Kai kind of do the rest of it.
Speaker 2: So it was like Kai and me talked like every
Speaker 2: day for multiple years about every little thing, every single hole,
Speaker 2: every single green, every single everything, you know. So it
Speaker 2: was it was just cool to just see that whole process,
Speaker 2: see why he did certain things. I would have ideas that,
Speaker 2: you know, hey, could we do this here, and you know,
Speaker 2: he did a really good job of you know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to say like mentoring, but you know, kind
Speaker 2: of trying to explain to me like, yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: cool idea, but like this is why we can't do that,
Speaker 2: you know, because we need to move the water you
Speaker 2: know here and take it this way, and if you
Speaker 2: put that there, it's not going to work. So it
Speaker 2: was just the whole thing was really cool and you know,
Speaker 2: very thankful for both of them and you know everybody
Speaker 2: else that that's kind of been involved.
Speaker 3: Do you have a moment with with the you know,
Speaker 3: daily conversations with Kai, uh where like, is there one
Speaker 3: conversation that ever like stands out in terms of like
Speaker 3: something that that really got better because of that that,
Speaker 3: you know, basically collaboration.
Speaker 2: I mean the one that really really stands out is thirteen.
Speaker 2: So thirteen's this big dog lay right par five, and
Speaker 2: you know when we routed it, it was it was
Speaker 2: like a big change when we you know, Tom had
Speaker 2: his original routing. Then we kind of worked on it
Speaker 2: and he came out and we made like some significant
Speaker 2: changes to it. And so thirteen was this big dog
Speaker 2: lay right par five and there was this really really
Speaker 2: like beautiful green site that was just like really cool
Speaker 2: kind of out on this little point, and it just
Speaker 2: wasn't working from you know, a second shot like going
Speaker 2: for a par five and two, Like it just wasn't
Speaker 2: working for whatever reason. So like midway through building that hole,
Speaker 2: you know, I had kind of like convinced Kai, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I think we should like maybe change this to instead
Speaker 2: of like staying up top the whole way, like this
Speaker 2: big dog leg right that kind of stays on the
Speaker 2: top of this uh you know valley. Basically I was
Speaker 2: like we should kind of go down the hill. And
Speaker 2: so we basically had to blow up the green site
Speaker 2: to make it work for you know, this approach shot
Speaker 2: that I wanted to change it you know, from from
Speaker 2: down in the valley, and I think like midway through that,
Speaker 2: Kai was like, hey man, like no, like this is
Speaker 2: this isn't this isn't going to be cool, Like it's
Speaker 2: not going to be as cool as that was. And
Speaker 2: you know, I had to really kind of put my
Speaker 2: trust in him obviously, like he's done this before, he
Speaker 2: knows a lot more than me. And it was it
Speaker 2: was just a really cool part of the process because
Speaker 2: it ended up being better than it was originally because
Speaker 2: we had to rework the green and kind of build
Speaker 2: it any way we wanted to, but kind of put
Speaker 2: it back and you know, they did a really cool
Speaker 2: job putting it back to work for going for it
Speaker 2: intwo from up top. So it was like it was
Speaker 2: definitely like this you know, aha moment where it was
Speaker 2: kind of like all right, like Kay's got this. And
Speaker 2: it was early in the build, right, I was like
Speaker 2: one of the first two or three holes we were
Speaker 2: working on, and it was really kind of like giving
Speaker 2: him the keys like totally at that point and being
Speaker 2: like all right, like if you need my help or
Speaker 2: my opinion on something, you can ask me, but like
Speaker 2: you've got a good idea of like what we're doing here,
Speaker 2: and you know, I kind of gave him my full
Speaker 2: trust at that point, like I'll chime in here and there,
Speaker 2: but I think you're a lot smarter than me, so
Speaker 2: I don't want to screw anything up.
Speaker 3: It's I feel like architects probably would all say they
Speaker 3: wish they had more clients or committees that realize that
Speaker 3: they've been doing this for a really long time, you.
Speaker 2: Know, totally totally, And I tried to be It was
Speaker 2: a fine line for me because I definitely did want
Speaker 2: to be involved, but I definitely understand did that I
Speaker 2: didn't like understand as much as these people, you know,
Speaker 2: but again, like I did want to be involved in it,
Speaker 2: so I tried to give my opinion, but at the
Speaker 2: same time, like if Kai didn't like my opinion or
Speaker 2: had a differing opinion, I would definitely like be okay
Speaker 2: with kind of what he was thinking in the whole process.
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Speaker 3: And now back to Zach Blair, how would you characterize
Speaker 3: the differences between your early routings, because you know, you
Speaker 3: had a lot of iterations of the routings and then
Speaker 3: what Tom put together, what was really different about him?
Speaker 3: And what were the things that he did differently with
Speaker 3: this plot of land that like, I think this is
Speaker 3: like a rare instance where you had your routings and
Speaker 3: then you know, you had somebody else come in and
Speaker 3: route you know, over the top of yours, right, So, like,
Speaker 3: what were the things that were different that the way
Speaker 3: Tom used the ground than than what you were planning
Speaker 3: to do?
Speaker 2: I mean a lot, yeah, I mean it was a
Speaker 2: lot better. Number One, the biggest difference I would say
Speaker 2: is when I could always find cool holes, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like I could I could find cool spots,
Speaker 2: cool pieces of the property, cool land to take holes,
Speaker 2: and but my stuff was going to be a lot
Speaker 2: more like, Hey, we're going to build this hole here
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna, you know, build the tenth green
Speaker 2: at Riviera or something like that, right, like like we're
Speaker 2: going to try and do something here, where his was
Speaker 2: always like the opposite, right like, Hey, I've got this
Speaker 2: cool green site, Like how are we going to get
Speaker 2: to this green site from here? So, you know, I
Speaker 2: think I always tried to work from like finding cool land.
Speaker 2: He always tried to work from like picking out cool
Speaker 2: green sites, which is probably the appropriate way to do it.
Speaker 3: That's interesting, Like it's almost like he like, probably I
Speaker 3: don't know subday we'll do this. We'll have to have
Speaker 3: this conversation with Tom, but like almost zeroing in on
Speaker 3: all the A plus green sites and then working your
Speaker 3: way back from there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Kai was kind of like that too. I
Speaker 2: remember when we were right when I had brought Kai in,
Speaker 2: you know, he had been to my routing and walked
Speaker 2: it and looked at it, and then he kind of
Speaker 2: like sent me back some stuff and like would just
Speaker 2: circle like you know, we need to get like to
Speaker 2: this green, and we need to get to this green,
Speaker 2: and we need to get to this green so you know,
Speaker 2: I think it's a little easier now seeing how they
Speaker 2: actually build golf courses, like you know, working that way,
Speaker 2: and then you know, my routing, I would say, like
Speaker 2: definitely took on the land a lot more like head
Speaker 2: on where Tom like traversed it. And it wasn't a
Speaker 2: lot of like straight up and down like mine. Mine
Speaker 2: would have been really really cool and crazy and wild.
Speaker 2: But you know again it would have been really crazy
Speaker 2: and wild like and I think it would have got
Speaker 2: a little repetitive on mine, kind of playing over these
Speaker 2: big landforms and you know, up and over, up and over,
Speaker 2: where his is like a good mix of you know,
Speaker 2: playing down through the valleys and then up and then
Speaker 2: being up on top of the ridges, and you know,
Speaker 2: just you know, the elevation change like the lowest point
Speaker 2: where golf is to the highest point, I bet it's
Speaker 2: like seventy or you know, seventy feet different. But you
Speaker 2: never besides the walk up to four Green, you never
Speaker 2: really feel like you're going like way up up and
Speaker 2: weigh down. You know, it's just kind of like gently
Speaker 2: going up and around and over stuff. So that was
Speaker 2: a I think that was another kind of like big
Speaker 2: difference and then the main The main one was just
Speaker 2: like I said, like I could always find cool holes,
Speaker 2: but then it would always get to a point in
Speaker 2: the routing where it was like, oh crap, like where
Speaker 2: do we go from here, you know, and how do
Speaker 2: we get back to cool golf? So let's just piece
Speaker 2: together a few holes to get over there. And you know,
Speaker 2: Tom pieced together like eighteen really good golf holes without
Speaker 2: really you know, sacrificing like an average hole here or
Speaker 2: there to get back to good golf.
Speaker 3: Well, the way I've always thought about it, and this
Speaker 3: comes from somebody that hasn't ever routed, of course, and
Speaker 3: I just to me, the holes that you kind of
Speaker 3: have to hang on to are when you find the
Speaker 3: really good long holes, right, like the good like great
Speaker 3: par fours and five. Knowing like because you can almost
Speaker 3: find par threes a lot of places with a really
Speaker 3: nice piece of land like you had, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and par three's you know when you see like
Speaker 2: seventeen at the tree farm. It was kind of like
Speaker 2: Tom and Kai always just basically said like we're just
Speaker 2: going to have to like create something cool here, and
Speaker 2: it's the easiest place to create something, right. They're the
Speaker 2: shortest holes. It's really just like kind of do whatever
Speaker 2: you want. So, yeah, the long holes, I would assume
Speaker 2: we're probably tougher, you know. I just kind of chimed
Speaker 2: in here and there with Tom's stuff and kind of
Speaker 2: let him, you know, take care of it, and he
Speaker 2: did a good job.
Speaker 3: Did you guys make any changes from Tom's routing outside
Speaker 3: of like thirteen.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so he you know, he kind of did
Speaker 2: all the work off the topo map like initially and
Speaker 2: kind of sent me snippets you know, where he was going,
Speaker 2: and you know, eventually, you know, like a week into
Speaker 2: it or whatever, he kind of had his thoughts on
Speaker 2: like this is this is our starting point, and then
Speaker 2: I'm gonna come down and you know, next month or whatever,
Speaker 2: and we'll go walk it and figure it out from there.
Speaker 2: And so I was pretty familiar with the property because
Speaker 2: I had just been out a lot and seen it.
Speaker 2: So when I saw Tom's I was so excited to
Speaker 2: go kind of explore and I knew where most of
Speaker 2: it kind of went and everything like that. And then
Speaker 2: when he came down, we all walked it and we
Speaker 2: definitely like that that you know, a day later or whatever,
Speaker 2: we made you know, some pretty significant edits with with
Speaker 2: where some holes were going basically like what is now
Speaker 2: ten eleven twelve thirteen was was like a big kind
Speaker 2: of redo just you know, and that's totally different. And
Speaker 2: then from and Tom was obviously involved in all of that,
Speaker 2: that part of it, and then when we were kind
Speaker 2: of like, okay, this is it and started actually building golf,
Speaker 2: and then it was kind of like me and Kai,
Speaker 2: I think we kind of like we shortened twelve a
Speaker 2: little bit because twelve thirteen was going to be back
Speaker 2: to back par fives, and we so we shortened twelve
Speaker 2: a little bit to make it along part four just
Speaker 2: because we thought thirteen worked better from where we have
Speaker 2: it just from a walking standpoint, everything like that. And
Speaker 2: then the only other real change was moving seven seven green.
Speaker 2: It used to be kind of like way right up
Speaker 2: in the dune and now it's like way left over,
Speaker 2: you know, on the on the hill.
Speaker 3: What were what was something that was a lot easier
Speaker 3: than you expected about the whole process.
Speaker 2: Man, finding like cool people that wanted to be involved,
Speaker 2: like you know, I think I think that was that
Speaker 2: was a you know, obviously not building golf, but it
Speaker 2: was it was just fun to see like how many
Speaker 2: people kind of believed in it and wanted to be
Speaker 2: a part of it. So that's been really cool just
Speaker 2: you know, just seeing the membership you know, happen and
Speaker 2: just getting a bunch of really cool people. But on
Speaker 2: the on the golf side of it, man, I mean
Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think a lot of the
Speaker 2: golf was a lot harder or easier than I kind
Speaker 2: of thought. I knew it would be like challenging and
Speaker 2: and that whole sort of thing. So I don't think
Speaker 2: there was a ton maybe, like, man, I don't know, honestly,
Speaker 2: that's a that's a good one. I'd have to think
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: What about harder? What was it was?
Speaker 3: Was there an aspect that was like way more difficult
Speaker 3: than you expected?
Speaker 2: I think from building a golf standpoint, you know, I
Speaker 2: think we went in kind of thinking that the place
Speaker 2: was just you know, pure sand for like hundreds of feet,
Speaker 2: and uh, you know, it was kind of definitely different
Speaker 2: than that in certain areas, and it was kind of
Speaker 2: like a hodgepodge of stuff. So there's you know, some
Speaker 2: areas like up on up on the tops of the
Speaker 2: ridges that are that are pretty sandy and you know,
Speaker 2: I think was a lot easier to build golf over
Speaker 2: there for you know, Kai and everybody else. And then
Speaker 2: there are some areas kind of like down in the lows,
Speaker 2: you know, that get more into like sandy clay. You know,
Speaker 2: it's still still kind of sandy material, but it's not
Speaker 2: like you know, beach sand or something that you know
Speaker 2: you find out at like sand Hills where it's just
Speaker 2: like USGA spec like ready to roll. So I think
Speaker 2: I think that that part was just I mean just
Speaker 2: everything was like pretty eye opening, honestly. Just the whole
Speaker 2: construction standpoint was like I mean I thought you just
Speaker 2: like hopped in a dozer and like made a push
Speaker 2: and you're like, all right, that's like that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's the uh like fair way, you know, and it's
Speaker 2: just like you see him like going back and forth,
Speaker 2: back and forth, back and forth, and you're like, what
Speaker 2: the hell are these guys doing? And then you come
Speaker 2: back a day later and you know they have something
Speaker 2: really cool.
Speaker 3: That's I have expect a decent amount of time on
Speaker 3: some projects now. Like something that always sticks with me
Speaker 3: is how if you come back every day it feels
Speaker 3: like nothing changed. But then if you're gone for like
Speaker 3: even like two or three days, you come back and
Speaker 3: you're like, whoa so much. But if you're watching it
Speaker 3: in real time, you're like, there's nothing going on. Nothing's
Speaker 3: happening here. This guy's just keeps going back and forth
Speaker 3: on this little twenty yard plot of area, and you're like, no,
Speaker 3: you know this is this is like watch a paid
Speaker 3: try a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So going into the process, like I was legit
Speaker 2: like gonna move out. We had a house right on
Speaker 2: the property and I was going to like move out
Speaker 2: there for like, you know, I don't know, like three
Speaker 2: months basically, and was telling my wife like, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be gone for like three months. I'll come
Speaker 2: home like every once in a while, but I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I got to be there for the whole thing because
Speaker 2: I got to you know, see them, you know, build
Speaker 2: all the greens and do all this stuff. And that's
Speaker 2: what happened. Like it was like a week into construction,
Speaker 2: and I was, you know, I thought I was going
Speaker 2: to be like okaying like a bunch of stuff, and
Speaker 2: you know, it was like three four days in and
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I'm going to call
Speaker 2: it audible here I'll probably just like come back like
Speaker 2: once or twice a month and we'll look at a
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff and kind of you know, go from there.
Speaker 2: But that was definitely kind of eye opening.
Speaker 3: I'm laughing. I don't know if you've seen any of
Speaker 3: the like the videos they've been doing for the that JT.
Speaker 3: Jack Nicholas project where they're like in the cart they're
Speaker 3: making them really dramatic. It's like that like Instagram versus
Speaker 3: reality kind of thing. It was like that would be
Speaker 3: like Instagram version of like you're constantly going around like
Speaker 3: pointing at things, talking through and then reality would be
Speaker 3: like you're looking at like one thing for like an hour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is crazy, Like I mean,
Speaker 2: it's all just so wild. Like I see those videos too,
Speaker 2: and it's just like, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's funny.
Speaker 3: Were there any holes that going into it you just
Speaker 3: weren't quite sure how they turned out? And and you
Speaker 3: just you know, then we're like, oh, that actually turned
Speaker 3: out really good, like where you weren't maybe we're weren't
Speaker 3: sure there was enough enough things going on that actually
Speaker 3: pleasantly surprised you.
Speaker 2: You know, we're kind of in that whole process that
Speaker 2: right now, you know, and Kai probably wants to kill
Speaker 2: me with you know, all all of me and my
Speaker 2: friends kind of like chiming in on certain holes. But
Speaker 2: I think the the biggest, you know, the biggest ones
Speaker 2: were like initially ten and five just you know, do
Speaker 2: they have kind of enough going on? Right? And I
Speaker 2: think they've turned out cool and they're they're subtle holes
Speaker 2: and they have their kind of highlights you know, around
Speaker 2: and on the green. But honestly, it was kind of
Speaker 2: like the other way. I think there were a lot
Speaker 2: more holes that were like, oh, yeah, this is going
Speaker 2: to be cool, and then when they're actually done and
Speaker 2: grassed and built, you're like, holy shit, this is this
Speaker 2: is like wild, Like this is awesome.
Speaker 3: With the subtle holes, is it? Is it hard keep
Speaker 3: from over featuring a hole?
Speaker 2: I think on these two examples on five and ten,
Speaker 2: it was kind of like just overall, the course is
Speaker 2: like a very generous driving course as is, like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of fairway, big fairways, you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of room to kind of play off the tee
Speaker 2: and both of these holes are kind of short holes,
Speaker 2: and it's like is there enough interest off of the tee?
Speaker 2: You know, because people are like, you know, just in general,
Speaker 2: they inherently like kind of like the eye candy, like
Speaker 2: like something going on, right, And both of these are
Speaker 2: kind of like you have a lot of room and
Speaker 2: there there are areas that it's kind of beneficial to
Speaker 2: be but they're not really that obvious. And that's kind
Speaker 2: of how they were designed though, right, Like that's why
Speaker 2: Kai and me, you know, kind of liked them initially.
Speaker 2: But you know, when other people play, especially good players, right,
Speaker 2: you're kind of like you can't always just try and
Speaker 2: make them like more challenging because the good players think
Speaker 2: they're too easy. So it's kind of that balance of
Speaker 2: you know, not wanting to do too much, you know,
Speaker 2: but at the same time, you don't want it to
Speaker 2: just be like you always can just pull driver. And
Speaker 2: that was kind of the that's kind of the debate
Speaker 2: on five was you know, didn't want it to just
Speaker 2: be like aimlessly always pull driver can hit it anywhere
Speaker 2: in the grass and you know, you're okay, So.
Speaker 1: Did you leave it without a bunker's or are you
Speaker 1: adding stuff to that hole?
Speaker 2: What we did was kind of like we removed basically
Speaker 2: where the on the right side. It kind of you know,
Speaker 2: wrapped around the tree line and kind of connected to
Speaker 2: six Fairway, and it just made it like such a
Speaker 2: massive space that like you could just pull driver and
Speaker 2: hit a horrible shot and miss way right. And I
Speaker 2: think we always figured that that grain was going to
Speaker 2: kind of like slope more away and be like a
Speaker 2: much harder shot if you've blocked it way right. And
Speaker 2: it really didn't turn out quite as hard as we
Speaker 2: thought from over there. So we just basically kind of
Speaker 2: like extended the uh, you know, the woods out a
Speaker 2: little further that. We brought it out a little further
Speaker 2: left and then a little you know, into six fair Way.
Speaker 2: So it's just kind of like you know, native woods,
Speaker 2: you know, just off grap like what you would see
Speaker 2: off of the grass there, you know, just just for
Speaker 2: a little you know, not like oh my god, I
Speaker 2: can hit it anywhere here.
Speaker 3: See, you got preview plays starting in a couple months,
Speaker 3: Like what are what's are you most excited about?
Speaker 1: From a feedback perspective.
Speaker 2: I mean mostly just you know, when people come out,
Speaker 2: it's been interesting, like from a membership standpoint, you know,
Speaker 2: some people have you know, been out a lot, you know,
Speaker 2: shout out to Big Country and you know, some people
Speaker 2: have literally the best and some people have been out,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe like never, you know, like I know,
Speaker 2: like a couple of the Utah guys have never been out.
Speaker 2: So I'm just excited for people to see it because
Speaker 2: you know, you see the pictures online. I've been like
Speaker 2: really active on like showing people the process, and I
Speaker 2: would say the main takeaway usually when people come out
Speaker 2: is like, holy cow, it's like so much better than
Speaker 2: the pictures. You know, It's so much bigger than the pictures.
Speaker 2: This scale is huge, and you can't really capture the
Speaker 2: topography or the scale or anything like that in the pictures.
Speaker 2: So I'm just pretty pumped for people to, you know,
Speaker 2: actually just like get out and play it and like
Speaker 2: see what kai and you know, everyone built.
Speaker 3: Changing subjects a little now that you've kind of gone
Speaker 3: through a process of building a golf course, how would
Speaker 3: you design a course for PGA Tour pros if you're
Speaker 3: starting from scratch, I mean.
Speaker 2: A lot of water hazards, and I mean if I was,
Speaker 2: if you're building a course for like the best people
Speaker 2: in the world. The thing that scares professional golfers is
Speaker 2: like hazards, you know what I mean. It's the one
Speaker 2: thing that kind of like will deter you from playing
Speaker 2: at a hole. So you would like you need to
Speaker 2: get on a site that's like ridiculously sandy, or you
Speaker 2: need to spend like a billion dollars like just sand
Speaker 2: capping it so much that it can actually play firm
Speaker 2: and you know, drain and you can you know, you
Speaker 2: don't have to rely on like perfect weather for it
Speaker 2: to play how it's supposed to play. And then just
Speaker 2: like you know, unfortunately, you just got to like hazard
Speaker 2: the shit out of it and make it really hard.
Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like sometimes tour events tour
Speaker 3: courses are like ridiculously firm, but the the level of
Speaker 3: play is so high and the ability to hit the
Speaker 3: ball high, like it doesn't it sometimes like it looks
Speaker 3: soft on TV when it's actually firm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do, you know for the most part, Like
Speaker 2: you know, it's usually like fairly firm, nothing like crazy
Speaker 2: outside of a handful of events a year, and I
Speaker 2: mean it all totally depends on the weather, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like if you if you have no rain,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's not super windy and you know,
Speaker 2: the conditions are right. Some events like Bayhill or you
Speaker 2: know some of them can get the can get the
Speaker 2: greens like rocks and make it ridiculous. And you know the.
Speaker 3: Aals getting they al's getting in trouble for their I know.
Speaker 2: It's I mean I played it a few years ago
Speaker 2: and it was like it was just kind of like
Speaker 2: it didn't really matter right, It didn't matter in a
Speaker 2: fair way or the rough or whatever. It was kind
Speaker 2: of like you just had to land it short and
Speaker 2: run it up anyway. So it's always a fine line.
Speaker 2: It's always tough, but I mean it's so hard, like
Speaker 2: players are like so good. Like I played today with
Speaker 2: Brendan Steele and Sam Ryder and they played good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they shot like nine and eight under, like eight and
Speaker 2: seven under, and it's like geez, like it's not that easy,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It's like the course is long,
Speaker 2: the roughest, the roughest, so thick, the greens are you know,
Speaker 2: fast and bumpy, and you know they shoot like nothing
Speaker 2: and you're like, holy cow, people are just good at golf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I feel I don't know, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you ever think about this. I I you know it,
Speaker 3: but like from when you got on tour to now,
Speaker 3: do you feel like the level of play has has risen?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, like it's just people
Speaker 2: say ever, you know, there's just now there's you know,
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty people that hit it three hundred plus.
Speaker 2: You know when I started, there was ten. You know.
Speaker 2: It was just like when people hit it that far,
Speaker 2: like the percentages are like x amount of people are
Speaker 2: going to like pot good that week, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like everyone just hits it so far.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. It's like literally ridiculous. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Joseph Labonia had an interesting article. I doubt you read it,
Speaker 3: so I'll like basically summarize it quickly here. But it
Speaker 3: was a It was about how at Tory distance is
Speaker 3: just such a huge advantage because there's such low penalty
Speaker 3: if you hit it far of like when you hit
Speaker 3: it really far, if you hit it offline, it's not
Speaker 3: a huge penalty versus like any compared to Augusta National,
Speaker 3: where Augusta is generous off the tee, but when you
Speaker 3: get off the generous spots it's very difficult to recover
Speaker 3: from versus like at Tory you can miss wide and recover.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, tories, like especially like with they've taken out
Speaker 2: so many trees, you know, in the last since I started.
Speaker 2: You know, like and I played a practice around the
Speaker 2: other day and it was just like people hitting it
Speaker 2: like three thirty five, and it like didn't really matter
Speaker 2: if you were in the fairway or not. Obviously it's
Speaker 2: better if you're in the fairway, but it's like you're
Speaker 2: still hitting like nine iron or pitching wedge or sand wedge,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, hitting it two seventy five
Speaker 2: and having like five iron in It's like I better
Speaker 2: hit the fairway and you know, still it's harder.
Speaker 3: You gotta get out of the heavy, heavy ocean air,
Speaker 3: you know, then you can start beating it out there
Speaker 3: three hundred.
Speaker 2: It's funny like when I go and play Sony. You know,
Speaker 2: Sony was fairly firm in the fairways this year. The
Speaker 2: greens weren't crazy firm, but the fairways were, and it
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I'm hitting shots out there and
Speaker 2: just big bounces and like hitting it close to people,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: The knuckle the knuckle knuckleballer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and then then you go to like
Speaker 2: freaking last week at the American Express or here and
Speaker 2: guys like legit. I played a practice round with someone
Speaker 2: the other day and then even like Brendan Steel, I
Speaker 2: mean he was hitting at like fifty sixty by me
Speaker 2: like a couple of times, and you're just like, he
Speaker 2: just hits this smoky, like high perfect draw and You're like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like that would be so nice to
Speaker 2: hit it three ten.
Speaker 1: I've been playing.
Speaker 3: I've been playing retro for like a year, and I
Speaker 3: got I was playing. I played Oak Hill on like
Speaker 3: a cold day after rained.
Speaker 1: It was like a song.
Speaker 3: It was like raining in and out of rain, but
Speaker 3: it had rained so much the last few days, and
Speaker 3: I got I got so tired, like on the back eye.
Speaker 3: I just like took one of the guys from our team.
Speaker 3: I was like, just give me your driver, give me
Speaker 3: the modern driver.
Speaker 1: I need it.
Speaker 3: Just disheart when the ball stops and it's just you know,
Speaker 3: it just it kills you. Well, we're getting out of here.
Speaker 3: I got two questions to finish up here with. You know,
Speaker 3: you're finishing your first project that you're you know, heavily
Speaker 3: involved with. What do you see the future of your
Speaker 3: involvement with golf course development, construction and design being have
Speaker 3: you thought of it about it and uh, just curious
Speaker 3: where where your head's at with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was obviously really cool, you know, seeing the
Speaker 2: whole thing, and you know, definitely made me, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: want to do more of it. Obviously. The big thing
Speaker 2: for me is wanting to build TBC in Utah still
Speaker 2: and you know that's kind of hopefully, you know, the
Speaker 2: next little project. Hopefully in the next year or two,
Speaker 2: we can find somewhere some to do it. You know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of I think people will see the tree
Speaker 2: Farm and I think it's a really cool spot and
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully something an opportunity kind of pops up,
Speaker 2: you know, in the near future in Utah.
Speaker 3: One project at a time is a nice way to
Speaker 3: think about it, right, could never get out too far
Speaker 3: ahead of yourself if you do it that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and it was it was cool, Like I mean,
Speaker 2: I really kind of went into the project thinking, like,
Speaker 2: you know, this is really like the only the only
Speaker 2: thing I want to do in terms of like if
Speaker 2: this was the only one, that would be okay. But
Speaker 2: I've always really focused on like still wanting to do TBC.
Speaker 2: And then during the project after the project. It was
Speaker 2: really it was really kind of eye opening, being like, yeah, man,
Speaker 2: like that would be a cool little you know, that'd
Speaker 2: be a cool little gig when you're you know, forty
Speaker 2: five or fifty kind of going around and you know,
Speaker 2: building cool golf courses like that wouldn't suck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and in different capacities too, right, Like you
Speaker 3: know there, that's something I think I found really interesting.
Speaker 3: I talked to James Duncan, who has a longtime Coren
Speaker 3: Crenshaw associate, and he just he talked to a lot
Speaker 3: of detail about Ben's involvement and how.
Speaker 1: Like they you know, Ben's not like.
Speaker 3: Uber uber day on site involved, but it's like about
Speaker 3: getting Ben out at the exact right times and how
Speaker 3: interesting like people think of like different there are so
Speaker 3: many different roles of a project, and I think that's
Speaker 3: something I've learned over the last few years. It's like
Speaker 3: just how much goes into it and how little role,
Speaker 3: seemingly little roles, make such a huge impact on the
Speaker 3: greater project.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean it's just kind of like,
Speaker 2: you know, his involvement is like it makes it better, right,
Speaker 2: It's like his little inst here and there and even
Speaker 2: if it's changing like the sixth green or something like that.
Speaker 2: You know, it could make a it could make like
Speaker 2: a drastic difference in that golf hole, and that golf
Speaker 2: hole makes a big difference in the golf course itself.
Speaker 1: So well, I mean, like that's like an amazing thing.
Speaker 3: I sometimes I think about this as like if I
Speaker 3: took away this one little feature, how an extraordinary hole
Speaker 3: could turn into an ordinary hole, or if you took
Speaker 3: away something it might vastly improve a hole. It's like
Speaker 3: it's you know, the line of like it's it's a
Speaker 3: fascinating thing, right is because like a lot of the
Speaker 3: like the best stuff is really like kind of like
Speaker 3: if you move something a couple yards, it makes a
Speaker 3: huge difference.
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the whole like thing.
Speaker 2: That's the whole discussion on five right now. It's kind
Speaker 2: of like, you know, you don't want to do something
Speaker 2: that just makes it stupid or makes it worse, but
Speaker 2: if you but if there's something that is just enough
Speaker 2: that makes it better, it could be way better.
Speaker 1: But you never really know, and you could do nothing
Speaker 1: and it could be perfect.
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah. Yeah, that's where that's where Kai's at right now,
Speaker 2: He's kind of like, dude, the whole stick. I think
Speaker 2: everyone should just shut up.
Speaker 1: I liked it. I kind of thought it was nice.
Speaker 3: I think you like, I mean, my two cents of
Speaker 3: people that have never been not many people have been there,
Speaker 3: but you kind of like the first four holes are
Speaker 3: really in your face, and I love the fifth.
Speaker 1: It's just this like cool, little like chill hole, and.
Speaker 3: There's just enough going on that makes you think, and
Speaker 3: you like, I found myself, like the second time around,
Speaker 3: really trying to push it up the left because I
Speaker 3: want to get up the left.
Speaker 1: But then you have some you have some trouble over there.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's a hole that could
Speaker 1: get in people's head.
Speaker 3: I like the holes too, Like, you expect to walk
Speaker 3: off that with a three, but it's really hard to
Speaker 3: make the three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't say it's really hard. It's not easy
Speaker 1: to make a three.
Speaker 2: But you got to, you know, you got to do
Speaker 2: the right things. You got to hit two good shots
Speaker 2: and make a putt, or you got to hit one.
Speaker 2: You got to hit one good shot and make the pott.
Speaker 2: I guess that's the that's the argument right now, is
Speaker 2: kind of like right now, the drive before they made
Speaker 2: this the slight changes to the right that they have
Speaker 2: recently was the drive was so you as long as
Speaker 2: you didn't snap like one left in the trees, you
Speaker 2: could kind of get away with blocking one seventy yards
Speaker 2: right and still just having a wedge on the green.
Speaker 2: So I think that was the whole argument. But I
Speaker 2: think Kai and those guys, they did a really good job,
Speaker 2: and you know, you guys to see it.
Speaker 1: I gave you my two cents.
Speaker 3: Just move the t up and call the part three
Speaker 3: and have ask Kicker part three. Ask Kicker Part three
Speaker 3: the same thing.
Speaker 2: That would be tough.
Speaker 1: Uh that last last question?
Speaker 3: Uh here before we let you go, you're an elite,
Speaker 3: elite golf traveler. You've been a lot of places. What
Speaker 3: are what are the few courses and or areas of
Speaker 3: both the country and the world that that you're.
Speaker 1: Really keen to see in the in the near future.
Speaker 2: New Zealand. You know, that would probably be like number
Speaker 2: one on my list. And then I've.
Speaker 1: Never got to go directly for me now.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, I would definitely like to do that. It
Speaker 2: would be be really cool. It seems like there's just
Speaker 2: ridiculous golf down there, you know, and there's obviously like
Speaker 2: all the all the new stuff that everyone hears about,
Speaker 2: but just seems like so much stuff that you know,
Speaker 2: no one even knows. That's just insane from the pictures
Speaker 2: that I see. And then honestly like just like want
Speaker 2: to go back to England and just like play like
Speaker 2: Heithland golf and you know, go out like east and
Speaker 2: do all that stuff and just go all over. I
Speaker 2: went there right before construction at the Tree Farm and
Speaker 2: spent you know, like ten days there or nine days,
Speaker 2: and you know, saw a lot of really cool places obviously,
Speaker 2: but you know, not not nearly enough. It seems like
Speaker 2: there's just so much more.
Speaker 3: That's the way I feel about everywhere I get somewhere.
Speaker 3: I spent some time there, and then I leave with
Speaker 3: a longer list of places I want to see than
Speaker 3: when I got there. You know, That's the beautiful thing
Speaker 3: about about golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was glad you finally got over to uh
Speaker 2: to Scotland, and you know I saw some saw some
Speaker 2: good spots like yeah, that's big.
Speaker 3: I got it. Now I'm struggling to figure out where
Speaker 3: I'm going this year.
Speaker 2: What about you? What about you? Where's where's you know,
Speaker 2: Where's somewhere you want to go? You can't. I can't
Speaker 2: pick mine. I can't pick.
Speaker 3: Mine everywhere I I you know, I think I want
Speaker 3: to get to the Highlands of Scotland. England is like
Speaker 3: super I feel like I I almost wanted to start
Speaker 3: in England, but obviously with the old course last year,
Speaker 3: it made too much sense to go over there, and
Speaker 3: uh so England's super higher on my list. I'm contemplating Ireland,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe doing uh Ireland, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's it's hard.
Speaker 3: I've like I've been like dabbling thoughts of like just
Speaker 3: getting because I can fly direct to New Zealand, like
Speaker 3: just literally getting on a plane one day. I've got
Speaker 3: a buddy that moved out there who takes care of
Speaker 3: a really nice course there that I've been thinking about
Speaker 3: visiting for like since he moved out there.
Speaker 1: So, uh he always sends me.
Speaker 3: He sends me pictures like once every month or so,
Speaker 3: and it's it's always like, what am I doing my
Speaker 3: goutten out there? So I've got It's hard though, because
Speaker 3: like you know, you get these constructing these projects that
Speaker 3: are about to be done, like you know, like when
Speaker 3: you look at Australia, like I don't want to go
Speaker 3: now until that seven mile Beach is done, right and
Speaker 3: I want to see that and yeah.
Speaker 2: And then they're building the other one right there, five
Speaker 2: mile Beach, like just right on the other side, right,
Speaker 2: So it's like then you got to wait for that.
Speaker 2: But if you do that, then you're just there's always
Speaker 2: another one coming, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: That's that's exactly it. It's like, and that is like, yeah,
Speaker 3: so I don't know. I ideally, like I always think
Speaker 3: like if the ideal world is setting up like a
Speaker 3: shop in the UK for like a month and and
Speaker 3: and bringing the whole bringing the whole road show, that
Speaker 3: we this will ties the whole pod together. It's just
Speaker 3: bringing the road show, buckling in for a for a
Speaker 3: thirteen hour flight with a toddler and just showing for it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shows on the road. I like it. You can
Speaker 2: do it. You can do it.
Speaker 1: Where should I go? You tell me?
Speaker 2: I mean New Zealand seems pretty ridiculous. You could take
Speaker 2: you could take the wife and kids there and I
Speaker 2: think they would they would have more fun then then.
Speaker 3: You know, anywhere else maybe, Yeah, Yeah, it's uh I
Speaker 3: think that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see, We'll see where I end up going
Speaker 1: this year. I'm pumped.
Speaker 3: I'm just just thinking about it is fun, you know,
Speaker 3: That's like half the fun is I mean, it's also
Speaker 3: that as somebody who struggles making decisions sometimes it's it's
Speaker 3: a debilitating I can't make a decision.
Speaker 1: That's half the problem.
Speaker 2: Just need you just need to pick out of the
Speaker 2: like the jar right, you have like seven good spots
Speaker 2: and you're like, you know, oh, I'm going to Ireland.
Speaker 3: How how did you pick coming here? I put all
Speaker 3: the names in a hat and pulled out one of
Speaker 3: them and that's where I decided to go. That's the
Speaker 3: part of that the way I want to do it,
Speaker 3: though I think I've said this before on the pod,
Speaker 3: like is like my favorite thing is finding is going
Speaker 3: to like some of the lesser known stuff, like you
Speaker 3: were talking about with the New Zealand, Like there are
Speaker 3: a lot of big name places there, but there's like
Speaker 3: I have a list of smaller courses that haven't really
Speaker 3: been you know, touristed out that I want to see.
Speaker 3: And I think when I think about I want to
Speaker 3: go to like small areas and be in that area.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be driving a car around a
Speaker 3: lot when I go to the UKA, Like I want
Speaker 3: to go to his small area and just knock out
Speaker 3: everything in the area. Yeah, and so so I've just
Speaker 3: like locked myself into like twenty years of visits before
Speaker 3: I see everything.
Speaker 2: I want to see good golf for twenty years or
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 3: All right, zeb thanks for coming on in the middle
Speaker 3: of the tournament.
Speaker 1: Good luck the rest of the week. We'll see you
Speaker 1: on the weekend and then you'll you'll get.
Speaker 3: Your Sunday free to You'll be driving up to Pebble Sunday. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll see you next week down there.
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast.
Speaker 3: Big thanks to Matt Russis, who produced and edited this podcast.
Speaker 3: He's been a big help. And a quick reminder. We
Speaker 3: are cooking in Club TFF. There's daily content. We are
Speaker 3: now almost a month in. We have been really proud
Speaker 3: of our output in there. There's daily articles during the
Speaker 3: week that are posted to the website, as well as
Speaker 3: a vibrant discussion section on each of the posts.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 3: Everybody's been really pleased with Club TFE. This week, we
Speaker 3: just did our first member Q and A. It's kind
Speaker 3: of very interactive of fun, loose hangout that is posted there,
Speaker 3: so if you're interested, it's one hundred and twenty dollars
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Speaker 1: That is the fridagg dot com.
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Speaker 3: some big plans for where it's going in the future
Speaker 3: with some new developments and some additions. So thanks again
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Speaker 1: Podcast with some new episodes. Thanks have a great weekend.