1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: We're back. 2 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 2: Happy New Year, Happy New Year, Happy New Year. No, 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: happy New Year, Happy New Year, Tennessee. Happy New Year you, 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 2: fellow conspiracy realist. 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Yay happen yeay? What kind of fireworks do you got 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: going on right now? 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 3: How is your dog, Dylan? That was a good woo man. 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. Please stop your fireworks at a respectable 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: hour for the dog's sake. 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 4: How are your dogs? 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? 12 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: How you DAGs? 13 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: So if you're gonna do fireworks, please respect everybody else's 14 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: dogs and do your fireworks indoors. Just kidding like an American. 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: So uh, this is uh the second chapter of our 16 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: classic series on dreams and predicting the future. Now as 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: we know, we talked about this in a recent weekly 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: Strange News segment. There's a lot humans are learning about 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: the concept of linear or experienced time, and when we 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: first got into this idea of dreams predicting the future, 21 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: we got a lot of feedback, a lot of correspondence, 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: and we got a lot of people, I think surprisingly, gents, 23 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: we had a lot of people calling in to confirm 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: our findings, which was the most fascinating part about this 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 2: for sure. 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 5: So why don't we just jump right in to part 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 5: two of Have Dreams Really Predicted the Future? 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: Already in progress or you know at the beginning. 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 31 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know? A 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 4: production of iHeart Reading. 33 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 34 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: my name is Noel. 35 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 36 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: our super producer Paul, Mission control decand most importantly, you 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff 38 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: they don't want you to know. This is the second 39 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 2: part of a two part series asking whether dreams have 40 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: really predicted the future. We ended the earlier episode without 41 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 2: getting to several things facts for one, science, although we're 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: able to put some science in the first episode, and 43 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: perhaps most importantly, questions that we had promised at the 44 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: beginning of the last episode. So please listen to part 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: one of Have Dreams Really Predicted the Future before you 46 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: dive into part two. This is mostly crazy stuff in 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: the second act, So here's where it gets crazy. 48 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 3: Oh man, as the quickest we've gotten crazy. I think 49 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 3: maybe ever? I love it? 50 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 5: Do you want to do you a little quick recap 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 5: of some of the hallmarks from our last episode. 52 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: Some of the historical figures. 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 5: We've got Abraham Lincoln, who seems to have predicted his 54 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 5: own assassination and dream. We have Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain, 55 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 5: who seems to have had a premonition of his brother's 56 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 5: demise in the form of a dream where he was 57 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 5: laid out his brother in a metal casket wearing a suit, 58 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 5: a borrowed suit and also bedecked with like a particular 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 5: spray of flowers that lined up with what he saw 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 5: in his dream, my crazy dream about Bennett Moon and 61 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 5: then that manifesting in reality in the form of her 62 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 5: calling in to wait, wait, don't tell me what else 63 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 5: we got. I think your great aunt's ben and in 64 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 5: her potential obo playing or lack of in the room. 65 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: No, no, I didn't want to take time in the 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: show with my own personal anecdotes. I always think of 67 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: that scene and as always sunny in Philadelphia, where Dennis 68 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: Reynolds is his sister in the show, is talking about 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: her dreams and he tells her stop. No one wants 70 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: to hear about anybody else's dreams. So I think that 71 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: affected me because the Great aunt Obo Portugal example is 72 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: just is just made up to show the credulous, the 73 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: credulous nature of dreams. But we also talked about how 74 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: dreams can function as a way of problem solving. 75 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 3: Right. 76 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: Our brains as problem solvers are sometimes more effective when 77 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: our consciousness is less involved. That's how the periodic table 78 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: was formulated. That's how many authors discover great works like 79 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: Samuel Coleridge wrote Kubla Khan after he he awoke from 80 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: a dream. He wrote the poem in his sleep, kind of. 81 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: He was also on a lot of opium at the time. 82 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but the sewing 83 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: machine was also inspired by a dream. 84 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a weird one too, a really violent 85 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: dream where I believe the inventor was being boiled in 86 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 5: a pot by cannibals and being stabbed with like spears. 87 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 5: And in the dream he recognized that the spears had 88 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 5: holes in the tips, and that's what gave him the 89 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 5: idea for the way you thread the needle or the whatever. 90 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 5: I'm not in a sewing expert on a sewing machine, 91 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 5: it actually is tied to the very tip of the 92 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 5: needle and that's what allows it to kind of continue 93 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 5: to thread and. 94 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 3: Hold on or whatever. But he what a weird way 95 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: to come to that conclusion. 96 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: Seriously, and just for a couple of other examples, Albert Einstein, 97 00:05:54,320 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: by his own account, discovered the or you know, hit 98 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: upon some of his own revelations in the world of dreams. 99 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: At this point, I'd like to recommend a fantastic book 100 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: about the nature of time by a guy who I 101 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: think he was an m I T an author named 102 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: Alan Leitman. He wrote a book called Einstein's Dreams, and 103 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: it's entirely almost an anthology or a series of vignettes 104 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 2: of young Einstein working as a sleepy patent clerk, and 105 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: every time he falls asleep he encounters another theory of time, 106 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 2: which will also be very very important for today's show. 107 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: The point is that if you're listening today, or if 108 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: you're if you're if you're like many listeners who have 109 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: written to us over the years and said, I love 110 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 2: turning on this show as I fall asleep, which thank you, 111 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: I still think that's a compliment. Essentially, if you have 112 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: slept regularly over any period of significant time, then odds 113 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: are that your brain has done the same thing. Your 114 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: brain is attempting to solve problems for you. Some of 115 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: those I think it's a point somebody made earlier in 116 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: previous episode. Some of those may be emotional problems, you know, 117 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: things with which you are grappling, and some may be 118 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: scientific things. Some may be like Paul McCartney waking up 119 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: and writing a song. Which song was that? 120 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: Was it? Yesterday was Yesterday? 121 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 5: Which is the most covered song of all time. It's 122 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 5: been covered like more than three thousand times. That's a 123 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 5: pretty cool claim to fame. But yeah, and I mentioned 124 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 5: like even being a musical guy, I don't really remember 125 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 5: melodies very much. But all of this stuff. The way 126 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 5: dreams work kind of depend on the way your brain works, right, 127 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 5: Like all of our brains work a little bit differently. 128 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 5: We process things in the waking world differently. So how 129 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 5: dreams function, I think is a big product of who 130 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 5: we are as people. 131 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: Right. 132 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 5: But what if this whole idea of dream you know, 133 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 5: sort of precognitive dreams, isn't so much our brains doing 134 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 5: a thing as it is like a bigger picture thing 135 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 5: that we're experiencing, something tied in with physics, something tied 136 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 5: in with a force larger than ourselves. 137 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: So how do we explain these anecdotes right? You know, 138 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: many of which are unprovable, many of which are one 139 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: person telling you their opinion about what happened to them. 140 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: And how do we explain the robustly documented tales. 141 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 3: Right? 142 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 2: One idea involves exactly what you're talking about, nol, the 143 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: idea of something larger. This is the science I want 144 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: to bring to bear today. It involves the concept of 145 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: a thing known as retro causality. Strap in. We're headed 146 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: for back country here. 147 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: M Yes, causality. You've heard this cause and effect. It's 148 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: the thing that happens when you hold a glass out 149 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: in front of you and then you drop it and 150 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: it hits the ground. Why did it do that? Well, 151 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: it's because gravity exists, and that's what happens when you 152 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: drop something with mass, it falls to the ground because 153 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: of gravity. By the way, gravity is maybe a whole 154 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: episode that we could do just about what that really means, 155 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: what it is. It's not like gravity doesn't want us 156 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: to know something, but it's an odd phenomenon that we 157 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: don't fully grasp. It sounds weird to even say that, 158 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: but it's true. But This chain of cause and effect 159 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: happens in a very predictable order, right, as long as 160 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: there's no other thing coming in, Like with the glass example, 161 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: there isn't someone jumping to catch the glass, or there 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: isn't a string wrapped around the glass that pulls it 163 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: down and actually makes it swing or hang from another surface. 164 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: But so that's cause and effect, right, that's causality. So 165 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 1: what is retro causality? 166 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: The same thing, but backwards. If you ever liked a 167 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: song so much that you said, let's play it backwards, 168 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, probably not. It would have to be 169 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: you know, maybe the perfect palindrome of a song to 170 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: have that kind of symmetry. But you're right. Retro causality 171 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 2: backwards causation. This is a concept of cause and effect 172 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: where an effect somehow precedes its cause in what we 173 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: experience as linear A to B two C one to 174 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: two to three time, such that we have to walk 175 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: slowly through this. Later events affect earlier events. Decisions made 176 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: in the future in the lens of retro causality may 177 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: affect events in the past. This means this could be 178 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: huge things for science if it is ever proven or 179 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: agreed upon. It could explain nagging questions about many things 180 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: in the physical world. But to explain those things, we 181 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: have to understand what retro causality is, and perhaps just 182 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 2: as importantly, what it is not. 183 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, it's literally the idea of backwards causation, 184 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 5: a reverse of cause and effect, effect preceding cause. It's 185 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 5: a concept that is very much tied up into quantum 186 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 5: physics and things like string theory and you know, the 187 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 5: idea of how you know, maybe even a multiverse kind 188 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 5: of situation, because it does sort of lay out this 189 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 5: framework of like, how can something that happens on a 190 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 5: certain timeline effect things that precede it in a different 191 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 5: timeline or earlier on the same timeline. So Lisa Zeyga 192 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 5: puts it pretty succinctly writing for fizz dot Org. 193 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 3: She describes retrocausality as not. 194 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 5: Meaning that signals can be communicated from the future to 195 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 5: the past. No such signaling would be forbidden even in 196 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 5: a retrocausal theory due to thermodynamic reason. Instead, retrocausality means 197 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 5: that when an experimenter chooses the measurement setting with which 198 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 5: to measure a particle, that decision can influence the properties 199 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 5: of that particle or another particle in the past, even 200 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 5: before the experimenter. 201 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 3: Made their choice. 202 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 5: In other words, a decision made in the present can 203 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 5: influence something in the past. 204 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: That is tough to wrap your head around. 205 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: I was thinking at different examples to ground this. It's 206 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: sort of like said, it's sort of it's a weird distinction, right, 207 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: because a decision made in the present should not be 208 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: able to alter the past from everything we know. You 209 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: know what I mean. And we can put it in 210 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: a whimsical in a whimsical sense by saying, if you 211 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: concentrate hard enough in twenty twenty and think I never 212 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: watched Police Academy for something, then that would mean in 213 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: retrocausality that you might end up not watching it, right, 214 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: that's kind of It's still it means that you're not 215 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 2: telling yourself in the past to do something different. You're 216 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: not communicating with yourself. The fact that you made the 217 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 2: decision in the present means that the past is changed. 218 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an odd thing. I'm just going to go 219 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: back to Lisa's example here, saying that the experimenter, a 220 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: scientist somewhere in a lab chooses, you know, use a 221 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: dial or something to decide what wavelength they're going to 222 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: be looking at these particles with. 223 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: Right. 224 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: So the concept is that just by making that choice 225 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: to select that setting is going to affect the way 226 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: those particles exist essentially. But I think more of what's 227 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: happening here is that the setting to measure those particles 228 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: is going to measure those particles at that wavelength or 229 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: at that energy level, right, Rather than the particle actually 230 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: changing the properties of the particle changing, you're just measuring 231 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: different properties. So it's tough for me to maybe understand 232 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: fully what Lisa is saying, just because I maybe I 233 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: just don't have that particle physics degree meaning to get that. 234 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: By the way, well it's related to you know, I'm 235 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: being a big glib with the I'm playing fast and 236 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: loose with the idea of any kind of comparison or 237 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: analogy that involves a human being. That's the nature of 238 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: this show, and we are going somewhere with this, fellow listeners. 239 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: So I want to say, you're familiar with the uncertainty principle, right, 240 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: the famous experiment where the double slit experiment, which we 241 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: have talked about in the past. It's similar to that 242 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 2: the idea that an observer affects what is being observed 243 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: and to some degree may determine it by taking a measurement. 244 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is fascinating stuff. But maybe 245 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: we put this aside and keep building our case and 246 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: then come back because to your point, Noel, we need 247 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: to consider how retro causality may give us a new 248 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: perspective on quantum theory. And ever a real life story 249 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: about this too. 250 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 5: Oh, I can't wait to hear it really quickly too. 251 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 5: It is also kind of tied up in one of 252 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 5: my favorite scientific descriptive things of all time, Einstein's concept 253 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 5: of spooky action at a distance or quantum entanglement, which 254 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: is the idea that objects can be affected by other 255 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 5: objects without being physically touched. And that's sort of the 256 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 5: basis for this, the idea that these completely separate things 257 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 5: in time and space can have an effect on one another. 258 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: All right, So let's dive deep into that. And to 259 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: do so, we're gonna have to get out our textbooks. 260 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: You don't have to, don't worry, we're gonna get ours out. 261 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: You can. You can just keep listening, and we'll do that. 262 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: Right after a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Okay, 263 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: we're opening our textbooks now and going to talk about 264 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: quantum physics. So the one we hear about in schools 265 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: often is called the Copenhagen interpretation, and this version argues 266 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: that until a system's properties are physically measured in some way, 267 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: they can encompass essentially a myriad, a large number of 268 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: different values, different properties. 269 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: Right, solid matter is a conspiracy. That's kind of what 270 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: the argument becomes at this level. 271 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: At a. 272 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: Like the closer and closer you look further and further 273 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 2: you dive down into reality, you see that particles do 274 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: not behave the way that solid matter would behave. Imagine 275 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 2: reality is a big pool table. It's not the most 276 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 2: creative idea, but fine. 277 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: We need to like like billiards. 278 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: Yes, like billiards exactly, Matt. So, So the the the 279 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 2: every particle in the universe of this pool table is 280 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: maybe a little ball, a little ball on the pool table, 281 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 2: a six ball, and eight ball, a que ball, and 282 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 2: they should be their solid matter rolling from one definite 283 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: point in space and time to another definite point in 284 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: space and time. That is not the case at a 285 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: fundamental level. Instead, these particles are like this blurry, shifting 286 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: cloud of possibility. You know, think of the old descriptions 287 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: of angels or divine beings that were constantly like their faces. 288 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: We're shifting and all this sort of stuff. Right, These particles, 289 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: these billiard balls, pool balls, aren't just shifting on the table. 290 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: They're like also in maybe other tables that also may exist, 291 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 2: or there's another there in the air. They're under the floor, 292 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 2: meaning we can be aware of the cloud of possibility. 293 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 2: We know that a cueball could be hitting an eight ball, 294 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: we know it could be missing an eight ball. At 295 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 2: the same time, we know it could be doing any 296 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: number of things, maybe especially scratching, right, especially scratching. The 297 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: probability is high. Uh. And the weird thing is the 298 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: spooky thing, and we do have spooky action coming up 299 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: here later in the show. The weird thing is that 300 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: as soon as you look at that cueball, as soon 301 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: as you focus on measuring that in some way and 302 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: seeing how it hits the eight ball, you will only 303 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: ever see that cueball, let's say, hitting the eight ball 304 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: in one place into one of four corner pockets. You'll 305 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: never see those countless cueballs hitting countless eight balls into 306 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: every pocket or every direction at once. Think of Schrodinger's cat, right, 307 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: this is Schrodinger's cat as a pool shark. 308 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: Wow, you know it reminds me of video in a way. 309 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining someone dancing very very fast, or dancing 310 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: with lots of intensity. Right. If you're watching it on video, 311 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: you get kind of the full picture. But if it's 312 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: just a snapshot or just that one moment right in time, 313 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: it just looks like somebody in kind of a strange 314 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: position or a weird pose, right, But you wouldn't get 315 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: the full picture of what's occurring. And when you're when 316 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: you're thinking about video in general or life in general, 317 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: and the way to capture things, we can only capture 318 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: images as frames essentially, right, as the. 319 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: I really like this comparison met. 320 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 1: Right, So there's no way for us to just have, 321 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: like the video that you're watching now or any video 322 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: you watch online, you're seeing frames of moments, and there 323 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: is no way for us to just have to just 324 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: measure a constant or measure all moments at all times 325 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: when you're looking at something or observing something. It's very 326 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: strange to think about that. 327 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 5: Well, And that's a really great example because that's on 328 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 5: like sort of like a micro level, but on a 329 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 5: macro level. It's like, think of the universe in those terms, 330 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 5: like what would a snapshot of the universe of all 331 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 5: points at all, Like you can observably, you know, measure 332 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 5: these things in a person like I was doing a 333 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 5: goofy dance when you're saying that a minute ago, and 334 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 5: then you freeze and you might get a sense of like, Okay, 335 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 5: I'm frozen in this horrible rictus kind of pose, but 336 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 5: you can't understand the badassness of my dance moves surrounding 337 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 5: it in the same way that you couldn't understand like 338 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 5: the totality of all possible moments happening, you know, in 339 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 5: time and space, you know what I mean. I think 340 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 5: that's really app math. That's super cool. 341 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: And this is strange because this touches on actually some 342 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: concepts that are present in ancient religions. This kind of 343 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: implies the idea maybe of destiny, the idea of some 344 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 2: sort of I don't know, it would be misleading to 345 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: call it predetermination. We're not being calvinist here, but and 346 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 2: no offense to calvinist in the audience. But the point 347 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 2: is this cloud of possible unobserved potential possibility. This cloud 348 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 2: of unobserved possibility exists free of a fixed position in 349 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 2: time or space. And shout out to one of my 350 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 2: favorite pieces of listener mail. Ha ha ha remember that guy, 351 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: the morphic resonance. Yes, yes, that's my favorite laugh. I 352 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: hope you are still listening, but yes, time space six. 353 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 2: On one hand, this idea of existing in more than 354 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: one spot at once is commonly called superposition. It only 355 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: collapses into a single state or position when the systems observed. 356 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: Everyone observing, even the most accomplished physicist, can never precisely 357 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: predict what state what the state will be when it collapses, 358 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: and some physicists believe a very controversial idea because we 359 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 2: have to keep in mind, when you go far enough 360 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: to the edge of physics, you are in the realm 361 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 2: of metaphysics, philosophy, and sometimes spirituality. So some physicists for 362 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: a long time believed that this collapse of super position 363 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 2: upon observation meant that consciousness, the mind itself, the software 364 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: of the brain, not the hardware. The presence of an 365 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 2: observer caused right causation caused the superposition to collapse into 366 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: a single point in space, time, the universe forty two, 367 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: et cetera. This is weird because it implies some very 368 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: strange things about time, things that we wish Einstein was 369 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: here in our franchise of time to talk about and 370 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: think about, because you know, to your earlier point. Now 371 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: those quirky, quirky things about quantum mechanics, spooky action at 372 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 2: a distance, entanglement, one bit of one bit of something 373 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 2: on one side of the universe. It's a very misleading 374 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 2: way to describe the universe. But one bit of something 375 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 2: very far away turns left or up or down in 376 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: some direction, and then at the same time, in an 377 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: immensely far away place on the other side of the universe, 378 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: the same thing happens. These are connected, right, There's like 379 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 2: a push pull symmetry. This is called spooky action because 380 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: there's not a local action that can explain it. But 381 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: what if it is evidence of time symmetry. What if 382 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: at this level of reality, instead of flowing in one 383 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: direction A to B, two C one to two to three, 384 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: time flows at the same speed in multiple directions. What 385 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: if what if at the quantum level, time as we 386 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: understand it flows in the past, the present, the future, 387 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 2: all possible futures, all possible presence. What if on an 388 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: extraordinarily fundamental level, time becomes less like an arrow shot 389 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 2: to a particular destination and more like the air through 390 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: which that concept of an arrow moves. 391 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it seems like quantum physics in general 392 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 5: as a discipline, it seeks to explain this kind of phenomenon. 393 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 5: Because you know, what we heard from Lisa Zeiga at 394 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 5: the beginning of the episode was what retro causality is 395 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 5: not is the concept that a signal can be communicated 396 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 5: from the future to the past. It's more about the 397 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 5: relationship of those two events and less about like sending 398 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 5: messages back and forth in time. Just wanted to put 399 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 5: that out there again. 400 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: Now, it's a good thing to keep in mind, but 401 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: it's a massive tangent and I'm not going to go 402 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: down into it. But this concept been of time flowing 403 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: and like in all directions equally. It reminds me of 404 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: the physical representations that physicists and scientists used to represent gravity. 405 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: When you know, you show like a essentially the warp 406 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: of space time, right, it reminds me of that kind 407 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: of only in the opposite as in wherever the present is, 408 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: wherever that is located, like the moment of consciousness, of 409 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: being aware. It feels as though it's almost like in 410 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: a mountaintop, and then in all directions is moving downwards 411 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: and all of the various possibilities in all directions. I 412 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: don't know, it's not a very good image, but I'm 413 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: just imagining it in the same way we represent gravity 414 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: and mass and how that affects gravity. Like it's almost 415 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: as if conscious awareness or observation is that same thing 416 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: for time. 417 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: You're reading my mind. This was something I wanted to 418 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 2: I was going to save till the end of the episode. 419 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: But I think we're we're on the edge of time. 420 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 3: Now, right. 421 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: As a concept, it doesn't really matter apparently when things happen. So, 422 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 2: so what I like about this concept, and I think 423 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 2: you and I are on the same page here, is 424 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 2: that you're talking about distortion, right, the way mass can 425 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: distort gravity, right when you drop a ball onto a 426 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 2: taut sheet. 427 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: Right. 428 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: So I was thinking of the same thing, and I 429 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: had followed it down the rabbit hole of information as 430 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: mass observation is mass. So perhaps a specific event in 431 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 2: what we understand as lindear your time. Perhaps the more 432 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 2: it is observed, the more concrete or quote unquote heavier 433 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: it becomes, and the more it distorts, you know, that 434 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: sort of ambient field or fertile soil of reality and time. 435 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 3: I know. 436 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: But so that's don't worry. We're getting to dreams. We're 437 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: talking about this trippy stuff where reason. In twenty twelve, 438 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 2: there was a physicist named Q. Price who claimed that 439 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 2: if the strange things we know to be true about 440 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: quantum states reflect something real, and if nothing restricts time 441 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: to one direction, not the band, just the direction of 442 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: linear time, then the eight ball in our earlier example, 443 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: in that pool hall cloud of maybe some what ifs 444 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: could theoretically roll out of the corner pocket and knock 445 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: the cue ball itself. 446 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: I love physicists so much in the way they talk 447 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: and the concepts that they that they have to attempt 448 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: to distill for people like me who just don't get 449 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: it a lot of times. 450 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 5: Well, it's so interesting too, because so much of this 451 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 5: stuff is like, you know, thought experiments until it becomes real. 452 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 3: Like I mean, even like Einstein and. 453 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 5: His whole idea of quantum entanglement and spooky action at 454 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 5: a distance. He sort of wrote it off himself, like 455 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 5: this is way too weird and I'm gonna kind of 456 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 5: let this go. And then sure enough, science came around 457 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 5: and a study shown that quantum entanglement very likely is 458 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 5: a thing, very much in the way Einstein envisioned it. 459 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 5: But he had to have done it on a purely 460 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 5: conceptual level at the time, because it's not like it's 461 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 5: something that could ever be tested, especially in those days. 462 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 5: So it really is a whole different set of equipment 463 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 5: that these folks have, you know what I mean, that 464 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 5: allows them to think in these purely conceptual realms that 465 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 5: end up kind of connecting with reality a lot of 466 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 5: the time. 467 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 2: It's fabulous, agreed, And this may seem like a tangent, 468 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: but it is an important tangent, even if it does 469 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: not seem immediately related to dreams. What we're saying is 470 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: that as you are listening to this episode, some of 471 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: the most intelligent people in the world are arguing over 472 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: the fundamental concept of linear time. 473 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: Wow, I'm just trying to think all the other things 474 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: I have to do today, and I'm wondering if they're 475 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: actually going to come later or maybe already did them 476 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: just tomorrow. 477 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: Decide that you've done them tomorrow perfect or maybe because 478 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: you are deciding that you maybe because tomorrow you are 479 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 2: thinking of doing these and remembering that you have done them, 480 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: that means you've already done I don't know, you see, 481 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: I see the problem. 482 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 5: If only it were so simple, and it absolutely is it. 483 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 5: And we're going to talk about why that is and 484 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 5: how this connects up with dreams after one more quick sponsor. 485 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 2: Break and we're back. Bell's theorem it plays a big 486 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: role here. It's an idea proposed by one John Stuart Bell, 487 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: the concept that bizarre things happening in quantum physics can 488 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,239 Speaker 2: never be explained by actions taking place nearby. It's like 489 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 2: we know that billiard balls are moving in all these 490 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 2: different directions, but we have no idea what's causing them. 491 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 2: We don't see the great grand pool queue. I guess 492 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: which some people say is God? You know what I mean? 493 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: That's how that's how strange this stuff becomes. 494 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 3: The prime mover? Right? Is that another name for a 495 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: god in the situation? 496 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: M h. 497 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 4: And so. 498 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: This this leads us to ask, then what if we're 499 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 2: what if we're looking in the wrong realm? What if 500 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 2: the cause of these movements is not happening somewhere else, 501 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: somewhere nearby, but some when else. If causality, yep, if 502 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: causality runs backwards, it means that this particle can carry 503 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: the action of its measurement back in time to when 504 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 2: it was originally entangled, affecting its partner, which is this other, 505 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: this thing observed in another version of time. Anyway, this 506 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 2: is all still considered fringe science, but the problem is real. 507 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: We do not fully understand the actions of the quantum realm, 508 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: and one of the things affecting our lack of understanding 509 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: may be our assumption of linear time. So the big 510 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: question is what does this mean for dreams? Where does 511 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: the brain come in? Is the brain somehow quantum? 512 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: Uh? Well, I mean it's made up of the same 513 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: things that the pool balls are made of in our example, right, 514 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: It's all just a lot of atoms arranged very intricately 515 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: in there, at least I hope they're intricately arranged. Hmm. Gosh, Okay, 516 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: so we know that if our cells are made up 517 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: of atoms, and atoms follow these laws of quantum physics, 518 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: even though we don't fully understand them, right, then yeah, 519 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: our brains are quantum What a weird thought. I'm just 520 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna sit here for a while and 521 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: think about that. 522 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 2: Yes, do we I mean, you're right, We're made of 523 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: the same stuff right within our bodies are the building 524 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 2: blocks of the stars and the cosmos, dirt and everything else. 525 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: But do we need quantum physics to explain this thing, 526 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: this phenomenon that we call consciousness? Right now, A lot 527 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: of physicists and philosophers are gonna say no, because science 528 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: is about explaining things in the most efficacious, accurate, and 529 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: simple way. Right We talked about brevity being the soul 530 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: of wit in literature and in the creative realm, but 531 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 2: the realm of science takes it to another level. People 532 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 2: like Paul the Guard, who is a philosopher at the 533 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: University of Waterloo. It says there is evidence building. It 534 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 2: says we can explain everything in the human mind in 535 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: terms of interactions of neurons, So we wouldn't need to 536 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 2: add quantum physics and the dilemmas inherent in this concept 537 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 2: would need to add that to the engine for the 538 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 2: engine to run and for us to understand the process. 539 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: It's like if you already have a working car, why 540 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 2: would you add another engine on top of it? Right? 541 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 2: Why would you need two engines if you can already 542 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 2: drive with just one? 543 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: Because you want to go really fast? 544 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 4: Right? 545 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 3: Right? 546 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 2: Because you think linear time exists, things can happen faster. 547 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: So I mean it's true. You're right though, and this 548 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: is of course a statement from a philosopher, but we 549 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 2: know physicists tend to that's right. 550 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 5: And then we have David Deutsch, who is a physicist 551 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 5: at the University of Oxford, who says, quote, is there 552 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 5: any need to invoke quantum physics to explain cognition? I 553 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 5: don't know of one, and I'd be amazed if one emerges. 554 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 3: That's interesting. 555 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 5: He's sort of like putting these in two distinctly different buckets, 556 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 5: So you kind of have two sides of that argument there. 557 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 5: So if the brain does engage in any of this 558 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:33,479 Speaker 5: quantum you know, shenaniganry during what we call thought, then 559 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 5: there's a particularly popular theory about how all of this 560 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 5: could go down, and it involves something called microtubules, which 561 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 5: are protein tubes that make up the. 562 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 3: Neurons in our in our brains, in our bodies. 563 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 5: Specifically, these support structures within neurons, and that is what 564 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 5: potentially quantum you know, physics would would enact upon the 565 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 5: idea that microtube can exploit quantum physics quantum effects rather 566 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 5: to exist in superpositions of two different shapes at the 567 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 5: same time. So this goes back to what you were 568 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 5: talking about earlier with the idea of superposition. 569 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 3: We want to do a quick refresh on that. 570 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: Well, you can think about it quickly this way. Those 571 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: neurons are, if this is to be believed, all of 572 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: your neurons are simultaneously activated and not activated. If you 573 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: think about it as an io switch or something a 574 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: state of being on or off. All of your neurons 575 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: are both on and off at all times. That's what 576 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: this is essentially saying. Unless I'm getting that incorrect. 577 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's existing in multiple states that we would 578 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: normally think are mutually exclusive. Right, So each of these 579 00:37:53,920 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 2: shapes in this theory amounts to a tiny bit of 580 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 2: what you're talking about, Matt, classical information we would consider it. 581 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 2: So this shape shifting quantum bit a cubit, right, that's 582 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 2: the fundamental unit here. Each of those can store twice 583 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 2: as much information as their classical counterparts and then we 584 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: add entanglement to the mix. I would love to see 585 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 2: this explained in the format of a YouTube cooking show. Right, So, 586 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 2: this is where someone sprinkles in entanglement and starts stirring 587 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 2: that stuff in. This is the feature we've been talking 588 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: about that allows these units, these cubit states, to remain 589 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 2: intertwined even when they're not in local contact. That means 590 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 2: that we can rapidly build what's called quantum computer, something 591 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 2: that can manipulate and store information far more efficiently than 592 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 2: a classical computer. Or because to your point, Matt, they 593 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 2: do not have to they do not have to be 594 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 2: restricted to a one zero one thing one at a time. 595 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 2: So if retrocausality is also in play, that means that 596 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 2: these tiny, tiny, tiny tubes, these tubes are protein that 597 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 2: you just described, these pieces of neuron structure could be 598 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:31,720 Speaker 2: interacting with time in a way that we do not understand. Fascinating, funky, 599 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 2: an amazing concept, also very far from proven. As we 600 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 2: record this right now. All the quantum stuff we're talking 601 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: about is incredibly fragile. It's not a house of cards 602 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 2: in a windy room. A more accurate description would be 603 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 2: like an upside down pyramid constructed out of the idea 604 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 2: where cards might sometime be balanced on the nose of 605 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 2: a blindfolded circus cloud with big clown shoes writing a 606 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 2: unicycle across a very high tight rope for the very 607 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 2: first time at their first day working for the circus. 608 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 2: The slightest change in anything will cause a quantum state 609 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 2: to break down as far as we know. 610 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: And here's the other thing about your brain, you guys, 611 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: it isn't exactly fit for this kind of quantum system, 612 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: at least from what we understand right now, right deep 613 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: inside there in your head of yours. Go go ahead 614 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: and feel it if you can, if you've got a freehand. 615 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: That's just your skull. Remember that's the hard part inside there. 616 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: It's really warm, it's wet, it's kind of gross, really, 617 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 1: and it's just not suitable for any kind of quantum 618 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: system to really survive for any length of time. But again, 619 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: that's our understanding of matter and how quantum system work 620 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: right now, because it's what we have been able to 621 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: achieve thus far. 622 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as we're recording this, there are numerous people 623 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 2: who are chasing down the possibilities right trying to determine 624 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 2: whether there is a possibility of a quantum state in 625 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 2: the human brain. Well, one person of particular note would 626 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 2: be Matthew Fisher. Fisher is an expert in developing quantum computers, 627 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 2: and he believes there is more to the story. If 628 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 2: you're interested, I highly recommend reading a little bit more 629 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: about his proposed experiments. Because we have to remember, as 630 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 2: mentioned in a previous episode, science is a long conversation 631 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 2: and it argues with itself, and there are many many 632 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 2: things that, for one reason or another, our species rejected 633 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 2: as nonsense, only to later learn that those things are true. 634 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 2: So to bring it all back around precognitive dreams, there 635 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 2: are so many anecdotes, there's so many arguments, there's so 636 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 2: many fascinating experiments. I wanted to mention one that got 637 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 2: me involved in retroactive causality a number of years ago. 638 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 2: You guys have heard of McSweeney's, right, Yeah, so you've 639 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 2: heard then of Walten. I know I'm cheating. I know 640 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 2: you guys have heard about it because I wouldn't shut 641 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 2: up about it off air when I was very into it. 642 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 2: So Walfen is sort of like a magazine made of 643 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 2: short films, and Walfin issued number seven included a strange 644 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 2: bonus like a bonus article, but it was a bonus 645 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 2: DVD that had a scientific experiment in retroactive causality. And 646 00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 2: the idea was that you, without spoiling it, as the audience, 647 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 2: the observer of the experiment that is on this DVD, 648 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 2: may somehow affect the results of the experiment just by 649 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 2: watching it. I still have it somewhere. I'll send it 650 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 2: to you guys if you want to, if you want 651 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 2: to check it out. It's it's controversial, but it sure. 652 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: You don't have to you don't have to buy it, 653 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 2: just borrow it. But the but the idea here is 654 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 2: is that we see experiments with this stuff. It's ongoing, 655 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 2: and we know that people many listening in the audience 656 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 2: today do feel and do believe that they have had 657 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 2: some inexplicable encounter with reality through the world of dream. So, 658 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 2: if retrocausality is real, if time, as we understand it, 659 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 2: flows in more than one direction at the quantum level, 660 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 2: and if the in the human brain function in some 661 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 2: way like what we would call a quantum computer or 662 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,399 Speaker 2: a quantum system, a lot of ifs here, and if 663 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 2: this system in a human brain is somehow able to 664 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 2: not even communicate information, but to influence information on what 665 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 2: we call the consciousness or the subconsciousness in an understandable way. 666 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,479 Speaker 2: Then there may just be a theoretical way for our 667 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 2: brains to understand time beyond the concept of one second 668 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 2: forward to the next. It took a long time for 669 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 2: us to get there, but we had to lay out 670 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 2: we had to lay out the case. There is actual science, and. 671 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: That's really what this comes down to. There's already some 672 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: science that appears to show it could be true, which 673 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: is you know, fascinating and hopeful to me thinking that 674 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 1: there might be a way for us to see a 675 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: mistake that's coming our way, or to see, you know, 676 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: to help somebody who may need our assistance, and somehow 677 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: we could be aware of that through this connection in 678 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: some way. 679 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 3: I love. I love the. 680 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: Possibility that exists here, and and just knowing that if 681 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,479 Speaker 1: there's already science that's leaning you know, in this way, 682 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 1: or at least hinting at this, then it probably says 683 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,479 Speaker 1: that within you know, our lifetimes, we're going to find 684 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: out more and we're we may even be able to 685 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: prove at some point that we are more deeply connected 686 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,839 Speaker 1: to each other and to ourselves and to everything than 687 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: we already understand. 688 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the mission, right to have to in some 689 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:59,239 Speaker 2: way illuminate a bit more of this cavernous, strange thing 690 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 2: called the universe, reality and life as we know it. 691 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 1: This giant shadowy jemba that we all exist in. 692 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 3: Ah, the shadowy Jemba. I love that it's such a vision. No, 693 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,800 Speaker 3: it's such a good visual and it's fun to say. 694 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 2: And your lighting looks really, really awesome. This is a 695 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 2: plug to check out the YouTube channel, which has been 696 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 2: resurrected if you are listening in the audio version. So 697 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 2: I have to ask. I know that the three of 698 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 2: us have various questions that we want to ask each other. 699 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 2: So I have to ask you, guys, do you believe 700 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:38,760 Speaker 2: that precognitive dreams exist. 701 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,479 Speaker 1: It's tough for me. I would have to say yes, 702 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: because I have experienced a few things where either I 703 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,879 Speaker 1: have been given information that I did not have, or 704 00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: I came to information that I was seeking within a 705 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:06,360 Speaker 1: dream state and and it you know, maybe maybe that 706 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,399 Speaker 1: is just my brain doing the defrag process that we 707 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: talked about at the top of last episode, but or 708 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:22,320 Speaker 1: maybe it is some connection that I don't fully understand 709 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: and it is some kind of precognitive situation. Honestly, I 710 00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: would have to say, I would have to say, oh God, 711 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: this is the stance I always take. I want to 712 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: believe it so badly that I'm leaning towards thinking that 713 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: something is there. 714 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 5: I'm with it, man, I mean. And it's one of 715 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 5: these things too, where it's so arrogant of us. We 716 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 5: don't understand this quantum physics stuff, and we see the 717 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,240 Speaker 5: smartest people in the world, like Einstein, kind of coming 718 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 5: up with these concepts that can't be tested and then 719 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 5: maybe even abandoning them, and then later it turns out that, 720 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 5: oh he was onto something. So it's like, we're not 721 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 5: even going to be around long enough potentially to see 722 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 5: the stuff, you know, fully play out as to whether 723 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,799 Speaker 5: there's truth to this or not, or the way the 724 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 5: human mind works. Or one of the ideas that we 725 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,239 Speaker 5: discussed on a recent news episode about that sense of 726 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 5: communicativeness between like, you know, beings, like like communicating through 727 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,840 Speaker 5: a look or knowing if someone is staring at you 728 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 5: really hard. What was the name of that. 729 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 2: It was called morphic resonance. 730 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 5: Morphic residents exactly I mean, that's, you know, still on 731 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 5: the fringes. But I send some truth to that, and 732 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 5: I send some truth to this. 733 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:31,359 Speaker 1: How about you, Ben? 734 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 3: Ah? 735 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's what I was getting to. There is 736 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 2: no there's one question that people keep missing when they 737 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 2: talk about precognitive dreams. Whether we consider ourselves skeptics, whether 738 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 2: we consider ourselves profits or oracles, or just people who 739 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,319 Speaker 2: know there's more to the iceberg of reality than what 740 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,359 Speaker 2: we see drifting above the surface. The question is this, 741 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 2: if someone has a dream and they use what happened 742 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 2: in the dream to better their situation, right, avoiding the 743 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 2: car accident that we mentioned earlier, staying away from that 744 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 2: dropping piano, which I don't think ever really happens. I 745 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 2: think that's a cartoon thing. But you know what I mean, 746 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,479 Speaker 2: If they have a dream and that dream helps them 747 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 2: somehow in the waking world. Does it matter if it's precognition, 748 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,239 Speaker 2: Does it matter if it's coincidence. Does it matter if 749 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 2: it's the brain playing the probability game? I would argue no. 750 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 2: I would argue it's very easy to get lost in 751 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 2: our own personal feelings about what quote unquote psychic powers are. 752 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 2: If it's like the Turing test, kind of like whether 753 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,280 Speaker 2: or not something is a robot or a human, whatever 754 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 2: the whatever. The behind the scenes picture is, if you're 755 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 2: still having a good conversation, it's still a good conversation. 756 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 2: All that being said, without don't spend too much time 757 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 2: talking about myself here. I come from a long history 758 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 2: of people who are absolutely convinced that they do have 759 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,439 Speaker 2: some kind of precognitive dream capacity. And I'll probably hear 760 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:32,000 Speaker 2: from extended family members when this episode comes out, and 761 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 2: they will probably not be super happy with me for 762 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 2: the way that we approach this. 763 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: Maybe they'll get in touch with you prior to the 764 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: episode coming out. 765 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,920 Speaker 2: That's right. If you can prove precognition, we would love 766 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,840 Speaker 2: to hear from you. Write to us on Friday, August first, 767 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. 768 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,759 Speaker 1: Will double check our inboxes that day and let you know. 769 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 2: I don't know if that does. That joke even work. 770 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: I think it does work, But this is I think 771 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,919 Speaker 1: works better if you truly that was a joke, right, 772 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:10,839 Speaker 1: but truly if you are experiencing us in some way 773 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: right now as we record this on Friday August twenty first, 774 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,360 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, this is what I would say if you 775 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 1: have access to a phone, give us a call. Our 776 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: number is one eight three three STDWYTK. Now it's really important. 777 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,160 Speaker 1: It's vitally important that you do this on Friday, August 778 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,720 Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty twenty. So any voicemails that come in today, 779 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm checking them for you. I'm going to be listening 780 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: for you. Please do it brilliant. 781 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 3: I love it. 782 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,240 Speaker 2: And there's another thing we can check right now from 783 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,360 Speaker 2: you social media. You can find us on Facebook, you 784 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 2: can find us on Instagram. You can find us on 785 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 2: Twitter where we are conspiracy Stuff on Twitter and Facebook 786 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 2: also travel to Here's where it Gets Create, which has 787 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 2: been universally lauded by us as the best part of Facebook. 788 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram where we're a conspiracy 789 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 2: stuff show, and you can also find us should you 790 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 2: choose as individuals on the social meds. 791 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 5: If you would like to find me, I am at 792 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 5: how Now Noel Brown on Instagram where I post stuff 793 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 5: from my core life and you know, music production and 794 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 5: video game stuff. My kids cosplays all that stuff. You 795 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 5: can find them exclusively on Instagram. 796 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,840 Speaker 1: And it's kind of work on Twitter if you wish 797 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: to free up your stream of various posts on Instagram. 798 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: You can follow me Matt Frederick underscore iHeart as you 799 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: will not see anything from me. 800 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,920 Speaker 2: And if you are opposed to social media, if you 801 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 2: are against the idea of calling people on the phone, 802 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,239 Speaker 2: if you've had a bad dream about it, but you 803 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,640 Speaker 2: need to tell us some more importantly, your fellow listeners, 804 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,600 Speaker 2: a story about dreams, some new information about the possibility 805 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,439 Speaker 2: of precognitive dreams. You can always reach us via our 806 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:13,799 Speaker 2: good old fashioned email address where we. 807 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:20,319 Speaker 1: Are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. But wait, remember YouTube 808 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 1: dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Stay with me YouTube dot 809 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. Just think it all the time, 810 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: know it, feel. 811 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 2: It, and go anifest it. 812 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: Yes, all right, that's it. Stuff they don't want you 813 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: to know. Is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 814 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,920 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 815 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.