Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone.
Speaker 2: This is Amy, this is TJ. And this is Amy
Speaker 2: and TJ. Good to have more here. Thank you always
Speaker 2: as always for listening. How are you today?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a big day because it's the day
Speaker 3: after Christmas, and yet you're so festive with your tea.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's eggnogging. Everybody's giving me a hard time. I'm
Speaker 2: drinking tea, right, I'm a tea drink. Everybody knows and
Speaker 2: this is this was a bad choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's smelling up the room, eggnog all over the place.
Speaker 2: It's an eggnog and flavor. But our producer here with us,
Speaker 2: Andy said, said what he told us about this tea.
Speaker 2: He thought, like nobody drinks that it was given to us.
Speaker 1: And yet here you go. You're just trying to keep
Speaker 1: the Christmas spirit alive.
Speaker 2: I know you.
Speaker 1: You don't want to let go of Christmas.
Speaker 2: It's over.
Speaker 1: It's a little eggnog tea.
Speaker 2: Christmas spirit is So it's the twenty six, yeah, y'all.
Speaker 2: And look in a recent episode, actually asked us, and
Speaker 2: this picks up on this point about the twenty six,
Speaker 2: asked us if we were seeing a marriage counselor excuse
Speaker 2: meship or relationship if we were open to doing so.
Speaker 4: You believe that still, you know what, the holidays are
Speaker 4: stressful and it stresses us individually, and I definitely believe
Speaker 4: it puts a lot of relationships on edge.
Speaker 2: We are not immune. We were doing this walking into
Speaker 2: the studio today and we were talking about something completely random,
Speaker 2: and I just turned and looked at I said, do
Speaker 2: you think the holidays are having an or have had
Speaker 2: an impact on us? And I would have to There
Speaker 2: was some stuff going on with us in the past
Speaker 2: couple of days that I'm not used to seeing, and
Speaker 2: it's a little stressful. And look, you said you've had
Speaker 2: therapists in the past. We do not have a couple's
Speaker 2: counselor we didn't believe that we needed one. We might
Speaker 2: have spoken too soon.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had, we had a We have at least
Speaker 3: I would say we definitely have a moment a week.
Speaker 1: Probably call them hiccups, okay, disagreement. Some of them are
Speaker 1: bigger than others.
Speaker 2: See okay, I would disagree with that. See well, I
Speaker 2: don't think we have made I don't think we have
Speaker 2: major I wouldn't call it a major hookup. Hiccup a
Speaker 2: week certainly not a fight or argument, disagreement.
Speaker 1: A hiccup did a little small like a little tiny hiccup.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, since we made that very bold declaration that
Speaker 2: we do not need a couple's counselor, we will tell
Speaker 2: you all that there has been one night that Robick
Speaker 2: and I spent a part that can specifically be blamed
Speaker 2: and attributed to a fight. That we had a fight,
Speaker 2: a disagreement and argument, a tiff of of what a
Speaker 2: lover's quarrel? What would you call it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yes, And we needed space from each
Speaker 3: other and I think it did us good.
Speaker 1: Space is good sometimes.
Speaker 2: Okay, Now this was and a lot of people can
Speaker 2: relate to this. It was something small. It was so small,
Speaker 2: and it started creeping up. We let it fester.
Speaker 3: Exactly what it was well for me what sent me
Speaker 3: over the edge. And we've had this conversation so many
Speaker 3: times about.
Speaker 1: Your sleeping hat.
Speaker 3: I'm so nervous, okay, And you like to stay on
Speaker 3: the couch, you like to not go to bed, you'd
Speaker 3: like to stay up. You started to like make a
Speaker 3: meal at midnight, and I just was frustrated. I was like,
Speaker 3: can we please just go to bed? It had been
Speaker 3: a long day. We had a lot of obligations work
Speaker 3: and fun, but fun obligations aren't that fun sometimes and
Speaker 3: we were tired.
Speaker 2: And okay, we were emotionally exhausted.
Speaker 3: It was done.
Speaker 2: There was some pride, there was some ego, there was
Speaker 2: some alcohol.
Speaker 4: I was done at the end of the night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but tell it. We literally spent a night apart
Speaker 2: because of a fighting cat.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of couples can relate to that.
Speaker 3: I mean, we separate apartments, so it's it's kind of
Speaker 3: nice actually have space. You know, in New York City apartments,
Speaker 3: you don't have other bedrooms a lot of times, so
Speaker 3: you're stuck with each other.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's always the couch, which is one.
Speaker 2: Of your favorites, and I know you hate that just
Speaker 2: and you would prefer that I leave than to sleep
Speaker 2: on a couch.
Speaker 1: I just I'd rather you come into bed. That would
Speaker 1: be the optimum.
Speaker 3: Anyway, So as we now relive this, we're now acknowledging
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of a lot of couples,
Speaker 3: a lot of individuals have all dealt with holidays. For us,
Speaker 3: how it affects you and your relationships, your family, your children.
Speaker 2: We're not at our best, okay, And this happened for
Speaker 2: us smack dab in the middle of what this hectic
Speaker 2: holiday season. We got really folks family. This happened where
Speaker 2: we got family coming in town the next day. We
Speaker 2: have family obligations and outings and events and social events.
Speaker 2: And not only that, this happened the night before, we
Speaker 2: had to come into studio and work together. So I
Speaker 2: can't even get away from it. Some people can let me,
Speaker 2: let me go to work, and I can at least
Speaker 2: get away from you to work. That she is.
Speaker 1: Still coming to work together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you take a different train, No, take the same train.
Speaker 2: But here we are. We are in the studio. But
Speaker 2: look what, I'm embarrassed. And I don't think I admitted
Speaker 2: this to you, but I was embarrassed after the fight
Speaker 2: that my first thought wasn't that I need to make
Speaker 2: sure she's okay and we're okay and let me apologize,
Speaker 2: or my first thought, and it's embarrassing to say, was well,
Speaker 2: we got to make sure we're all right because families
Speaker 2: come into town and we got to put on a
Speaker 2: good face. We are gold to go into the studio together,
Speaker 2: so we have to make sure we are upbeat and
Speaker 2: make sure we don't lead on that anything's wrong. That
Speaker 2: was one of my first thoughts. I am embarrassed that
Speaker 2: that was the case.
Speaker 3: We talked about this, that so much of what led
Speaker 3: us to this moment in our lives is finally getting
Speaker 3: to a place where we can start living our truth.
Speaker 3: And I say, I know so many of us pretend
Speaker 3: we're good, pretend we're happy, not just for other people
Speaker 3: so that they think we're good, but we're actually pretending
Speaker 3: to ourselves. And so I think by being open and
Speaker 3: being honest and acknowledging the tough times, the tough moments,
Speaker 3: the frustrations, and really having the conversation and not sweeping
Speaker 3: it under the rug or pretending all is okay, that
Speaker 3: is a part of healing and living a much better
Speaker 3: life ultimately because you're living your truth.
Speaker 1: It's so much harder than it seems.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: We have talked about this now, and given what we've
Speaker 2: gone through the past year, a lot of what's happened
Speaker 2: since they've gone through, it sounds like we were suffering
Speaker 2: and greatly. And I know it's hard to do comparative suffering,
Speaker 2: but for what we did experience, it.
Speaker 1: Was a tough year.
Speaker 2: It was a tough year, but authenticity is what we
Speaker 2: got out of it. So we go through our a
Speaker 2: lot a lot of people ending the year and you,
Speaker 2: it's hard to even go back. It's been twelve months
Speaker 2: and we think so often about what happened to us,
Speaker 2: but so much has happened for a lot of people
Speaker 2: over the past year, and we have to go back.
Speaker 2: And you and I starting the year twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: we lost somebody the two of us who was a dear,
Speaker 2: dear friend of ours and who was someone who was
Speaker 2: so special to us and helped us through some of
Speaker 2: the darkest times and who was our absolute guardian angel.
Speaker 2: And as soon as we resolve things with where we
Speaker 2: used to work and it was done, and now here
Speaker 2: we are coming out of it after a full year,
Speaker 2: and he's not here to actually be here and not
Speaker 2: just support us, but share I would be very proud
Speaker 2: to share this with him. And we lost him at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the year.
Speaker 3: Howard Brack And he is and was the most incredible
Speaker 3: crisis manager. And my god, I don't think a week
Speaker 3: has gone by where we haven't said what would Howard say?
Speaker 3: Would Howard tell us to do Howard guide us, and
Speaker 3: so I'm I like to think he's with us, and
Speaker 3: he's watching and he's smiling, and that's an important part
Speaker 3: of it. But it's also I think so many people
Speaker 3: can take this time and these holidays. They're not always
Speaker 3: joyful and have for everyone. People lose people dearly, They've
Speaker 3: had tough times, and these are the days and weeks
Speaker 3: where you're reminded of it more than any other time, perhaps.
Speaker 3: And I lost my grandma this year. She was my
Speaker 3: last grandparent.
Speaker 1: I know, at my age it was amazing to have
Speaker 1: had my grandparents for as long as I did.
Speaker 3: But Grandma Dorothy Roebach passed at the age of ninety one.
Speaker 1: And one of one of the.
Speaker 3: Quotes, well, this was the quote, the EPI quote, And
Speaker 3: I'd take this with me everywhere, because you know, she
Speaker 3: used to watch every day and loved watching us on TV.
Speaker 3: So my dad had to explain to her what happened
Speaker 3: and why I wasn't on television anymore. I get emotional
Speaker 3: because I was worried about what she would say and
Speaker 3: what she would think.
Speaker 1: And my dad called me and said, you want to
Speaker 1: hear what grandma had to say?
Speaker 3: This is probably just like maybe two months before she died,
Speaker 3: she said, tell Amy, these things happened.
Speaker 2: That's someone who's lived.
Speaker 1: I was just floored.
Speaker 3: And so now we like to look at each other
Speaker 3: when things hit the fan and we just say, eh,
Speaker 3: these things happen.
Speaker 1: So thank you, Grandma.
Speaker 3: That was an amazing quote to end a beautiful life
Speaker 3: with that we will continue to use and think of
Speaker 3: you often.
Speaker 2: But really, for your family is having a first Christmas
Speaker 2: without this person who's been in you all's life for
Speaker 2: so long. A lot of people are experiencing that a
Speaker 2: lot of people are having and experiencing health issues. We
Speaker 2: haven't talked about this, but not too long ago, we
Speaker 2: found ourselves in NYU Hospital for I think it's fair
Speaker 2: to call an urgent exam. Your doctor saw some previous
Speaker 2: results and say you need to get your butt into
Speaker 2: the doctor's office immediately and we need to run these tests.
Speaker 2: And then after that we had to We were there
Speaker 2: and we left and had to just wait by the
Speaker 2: phone for a call that was essentially a life or
Speaker 2: death call in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: And anyone who has had cancer knows when you have
Speaker 3: a scare of a potential recurrence or another new cancer.
Speaker 3: You're going in for a test, and it's not just
Speaker 3: any test. It's a test where you feel like you're
Speaker 3: going to get a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
Speaker 3: It can be that dramatic. And so yes, waiting for
Speaker 3: those test res offs for twenty four hours was unnerving
Speaker 3: to say the least, but it was positive and meaning
Speaker 3: that it was positive news and it was not anything
Speaker 3: to be concerned about. But yeah, you get those moments
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden your life flashes in front
Speaker 3: of you again.
Speaker 2: And then here we are, two of us sitting here
Speaker 2: this year as well, finalized divorces. Yeah, this year as well.
Speaker 2: Not long ago, there was a move into a new apartment.
Speaker 2: We launched this new venture here with iHeart been working
Speaker 2: on this for the past six months plus all that
Speaker 2: stuff going on behind the scenes. Folks didn't know a
Speaker 2: lot of that work going though. That was a huge transition,
Speaker 2: and at the same time we were trying to get
Speaker 2: our kids adjusted to new realities of family. We've got
Speaker 2: to figure out the holidays, who goes where when and
Speaker 2: what time, and who goes in the morning and who
Speaker 2: comes over in the evening. And so with all of
Speaker 2: that that we went through in the year and you
Speaker 2: all a lot of you had similar stories or experiences.
Speaker 2: So after we went through all that and talked about it,
Speaker 2: it turns out we do need a relationship counselor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it turns out we decided what better place
Speaker 3: to talk about all of this than right here on
Speaker 3: our podcast so that you all can ride along with
Speaker 3: us and maybe write a few things down. Because we
Speaker 3: have someone who we have loved and known for decades.
Speaker 2: Now. Yeah, we invited him to be here. We invited
Speaker 2: him before we had the fight, so he didn't know
Speaker 2: he was going to come on and have to be
Speaker 2: our relationship counselor. But hey, here we are. But he
Speaker 2: is absolutely someone we just adore in one of our
Speaker 2: favorite people we have ever interviewed in our careers. It's
Speaker 2: our pleasure to welcome author, professor, minister TV host, an
Speaker 2: expert in the field of mental health, our friend and
Speaker 2: America's psychologist, doctor Jeff Guard. Dear young fellow.
Speaker 5: Amy TJ's so great to be with you again. It's
Speaker 5: been a minute. The world has changed, so much has
Speaker 5: gone on, you guys have Oh my god, I put.
Speaker 6: Up with and experience so much.
Speaker 5: But I'm glad that we are all here to talk
Speaker 5: about the holiday season, what we've been through, what we're expecting,
Speaker 5: what the promise of tomorrow is all about, what some
Speaker 5: of the issues are that we still need to work around.
Speaker 5: But you know, this is great information that you're giving
Speaker 5: out today, and I'm glad that we're talking about this,
Speaker 5: and I'm happy to be your therapist if you.
Speaker 2: Say that.
Speaker 1: Now, just wait, doctor Guardier.
Speaker 3: It's funny because we all have these expectations about this
Speaker 3: time of year. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 3: And I remember being in a storybugs actually what that
Speaker 3: song was playing when things were really not great, and
Speaker 3: I started crying.
Speaker 1: But just hearing that song set me off.
Speaker 3: What is it about this time of year that can
Speaker 3: cause such dramatic reactions and difficulties with individuals and families
Speaker 3: and relationships.
Speaker 5: Well, in this time of year, of course, we are
Speaker 5: very emotionally aroused. There are a lot of expectations, as
Speaker 5: you talked about, as far as being on being present,
Speaker 5: being able to be there for family members, to be
Speaker 5: joyous that this is the expectation that comes along with
Speaker 5: this time of year, and when we're not really feeling it,
Speaker 5: when we're going through our own thing when we're not
Speaker 5: particularly feeling joyous. But again, the expectation is you have
Speaker 5: to smile even though your heart is breaking. That is
Speaker 5: a challenge, that is a weight that you carry upon
Speaker 5: your shoulders, because in some ways, it's not even the
Speaker 5: expectations of others, Amy, it's also the expectations you have
Speaker 5: on yourself.
Speaker 2: Well, doctor Gardia, how dangerous is that if we put
Speaker 2: ourselves in that position to always try to be chipper
Speaker 2: and a Starbucks when we hear a song, to always
Speaker 2: smile because you know what, I just got that Christmas
Speaker 2: card in the mail and that was the perfect little
Speaker 2: family with the dog and the two kids, and right
Speaker 2: everybody's life and on Instagram everybody looks like they're having
Speaker 2: a wonderful time of the year. What's the danger in
Speaker 2: setting that expectation.
Speaker 6: Well, before we.
Speaker 5: Talk about the danger, let's talk about perhaps how it
Speaker 5: can help when we do get those little cards and
Speaker 5: so on, because it can cheer us up a little bit.
Speaker 6: But that can only go so far.
Speaker 5: And so the danger is that people are looking at
Speaker 5: you and expecting you to smile. You are expecting yourself
Speaker 5: to now be happy. You even begin to minimize some
Speaker 5: of the things that you're feeling. You begin to blame
Speaker 5: yourself and say, well, maybe something's wrong with me, maybe
Speaker 5: this is something that I deserve or that I'm doing
Speaker 5: to myself.
Speaker 6: And therefore we take all the.
Speaker 5: Responsibilities away from other people and then we put it
Speaker 5: all on ourselves, and as I said, we become our
Speaker 5: own harshest critic. And then that makes our emotions. It
Speaker 5: makes the angst that we're feeling, the depression, the sadness,
Speaker 5: the anxiety, it makes it so much worse.
Speaker 6: And now we feel like we.
Speaker 5: Are carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders,
Speaker 5: and we don't given ourselves enough grace in this time.
Speaker 1: I feel validated, Jeff.
Speaker 3: You know what, we are going to continue this conversation
Speaker 3: because we talked about the why and acknowledging that we're
Speaker 3: kind of all in this together. I don't think anyone's
Speaker 3: immune to what you just described. Let's talk about now
Speaker 3: next what we can do about it, and welcome back everyone.
Speaker 3: We have doctor Jeff Garder with us talking about something
Speaker 3: we've all been experiencing. I'm fairly certain this holiday season
Speaker 3: that's stress, that's anxiety, that's relationship difficulties and lost. This
Speaker 3: forced feeling of I should be happy that somehow creates
Speaker 3: quite the opposite feeling and a lot of us. So
Speaker 3: we're talking about something I think most of us know
Speaker 3: unfortunately very well, but we have such an amazing person
Speaker 3: with us to talk about what we can do about it.
Speaker 3: And Jeff, someone once told me this, and it makes
Speaker 3: sense kind of, but I want to get your take
Speaker 3: on it. Don't avoid conflicts, value them. That seems like
Speaker 3: something you wouldn't want to pursue. But sometimes with all
Speaker 3: of the stress and conflict we may have with one another,
Speaker 3: there can be really important, incredible takeaways and growth. Yes,
Speaker 3: how do we get our head around that and look
Speaker 3: at it from that vantage point?
Speaker 5: I think perhaps the person to talk to you is
Speaker 5: very psychologically minded, because really one of the basic tenets
Speaker 5: in dealing with conflict or resolution is to actually deal
Speaker 5: with the conflict. Too often we want to avoid any
Speaker 5: kind of issues that are difficult for us, especially in relationships,
Speaker 5: whether it's a personal or professional relationship, whether it's a
Speaker 5: family relationship. But the conflicts are there for a reason.
Speaker 5: There are unresolved issues that have to be taken care of.
Speaker 5: The more that we put them in the corner. The
Speaker 5: more that we can partmentalize them, the more strength that
Speaker 5: they gain. The more dysfunction that we see, we become
Speaker 5: even much more uncomfortable, and our relationships strain even more. So.
Speaker 5: At some point you can run, but you cannot hide
Speaker 5: from that particular issue or conflict. And that's why it's
Speaker 5: important to say, yes, there is an issue here, let's
Speaker 5: talk about it.
Speaker 3: But do you have to talk about it then? Because
Speaker 3: I did say so. We had our little tiff the
Speaker 3: other week.
Speaker 2: And that's really understating it. I needed to leave. I
Speaker 2: needed to leave. No, she didn't leve. I put her out,
Speaker 2: Doctor God, I put out. And then the.
Speaker 3: Next day, when some of us up, we could we
Speaker 3: could talk about it in a calm way and actually
Speaker 3: have company results. Do you encourage taking time and taking
Speaker 3: some space and letting yourself calm down before you actually
Speaker 3: engage in the conflict resolution.
Speaker 5: So I was listening to your opening talk, of course,
Speaker 5: and a couple of points that you all made that
Speaker 5: I think we really should pay attention to number one,
Speaker 5: even though I believe that whatever conflict we're having, at
Speaker 5: the end of the night, we should be in bed together.
Speaker 5: You know, and kind of just put that to the
Speaker 5: side for the time. It's just my opinion there, TJ.
Speaker 6: But you know you should.
Speaker 5: Sleep in that same bed because it does show that solidarity.
Speaker 5: But you will learn since I'm going to become your
Speaker 5: therapist or a couple therapists anyway, I'm announcing it to
Speaker 5: the world. But you know, the thing that you did do,
Speaker 5: both of you did that I thought was important. You
Speaker 5: felt that it was something too big to manage at
Speaker 5: the time, so you gave yourselves space. And that is
Speaker 5: the proper thing to do, whether it be in another
Speaker 5: room or if you're fortunate enough to have your own
Speaker 5: living space to be able to retreat to that.
Speaker 6: That's good because, as I like to say.
Speaker 5: No one can hear you screaming at one another in space, right,
Speaker 5: so that gives you time to calm things down. Secondly,
Speaker 5: you said there was you know, perhaps a little you know,
Speaker 5: social drinking involved. And the next rule is when you
Speaker 5: have some social drinking, probably not a good idea to
Speaker 5: try to resolve issues because it makes our tongues a
Speaker 5: little bit looser, the impulse control is it a little
Speaker 5: bit less, So wait until your completely sober to talk
Speaker 5: about it. And getting directly to your point. Amy, Yes,
Speaker 5: sometimes you should wait and say, Okay, things are two heated,
Speaker 5: let's take a time out, Let's give it a couple
Speaker 5: of and then when we can come back and talk
Speaker 5: about it with our rational minds, not so much the
Speaker 5: reptilian mind of I gotta win, I gotta make my point.
Speaker 5: It's more of it's not about winning, it's about sharing.
Speaker 5: It's about learning. It's about growing so we can deal
Speaker 5: with the next conflict that comes along, because you know,
Speaker 5: they keep on coming, right, and we want to be
Speaker 5: better each time. And I think if we follow that
Speaker 5: kind of a process, there isn't anything that we can't
Speaker 5: solve in a relationship.
Speaker 2: How did we come out of this one? Would you say?
Speaker 2: How did we result? Because we didn't. We started texting
Speaker 2: at the end of the morning, and then what I'm you.
Speaker 1: Came, I'm actually proud. We've come a long way.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think even as friends, we fought like
Speaker 3: we thought as coworkers in front, so.
Speaker 2: We're not Yeah, but then I knew I could go home.
Speaker 2: I don't have to stick it out with you care guys, but.
Speaker 3: I do think we have learned. I'm proud we I
Speaker 3: think we're pretty good with impulse control. We're not shouting
Speaker 3: at each other, we're not none of that's happening. But
Speaker 3: I think they're just kind of going to shut down mode.
Speaker 3: But yes, the texting is usually how we get back.
Speaker 3: I think we both told each other that we missed
Speaker 3: each other and that we loved each other.
Speaker 5: Okay, you know that's a very good way to open
Speaker 5: it up with words of affirmation, words of love. You know,
Speaker 5: we don't hear the three most important words in the
Speaker 5: world often enough.
Speaker 6: I love you.
Speaker 5: And when you open up any kind of discussion with
Speaker 5: your partner with I love you, but I need to
Speaker 5: say this, I love you, but this is what I felt.
Speaker 5: It really does kind of like open up a door
Speaker 5: in a very gentle way to be able to listen
Speaker 5: to one another because you're saying, I'm giving you unconditional
Speaker 5: positive regard no matter where this discussion goes.
Speaker 2: You said three words. She has a favorite four words.
Speaker 2: It's I love you, but no, no kind of. But
Speaker 2: it's what comes after the butt that gets us in
Speaker 2: trouble there, guard dear, Look, we're dogging here about family
Speaker 2: world relationships here, but there's so much people talk about
Speaker 2: family during the holidays, and we're still getting through the
Speaker 2: end of this holiday season. People spend a lot of
Speaker 2: time with family, and you hear the jokes like I
Speaker 2: gotta deal with my this, I gotta deal with my
Speaker 2: in laws, I gotta deal with my mom and somebody's
Speaker 2: giving me a hard time. And but that has a
Speaker 2: negative connotation to it around the holidays when it comes
Speaker 2: to family. But also isn't family wonderful to be leaning
Speaker 2: on in this very difficult time? And we should probably
Speaker 2: Oh well, I'll let you say it, if it's the case,
Speaker 2: be leaning on our family like this year.
Speaker 5: Round and now more than ever, in this very fractured, divided,
Speaker 5: violent world that we live in.
Speaker 6: What do we really have family?
Speaker 5: You know, you talked about Amy, you talked about your
Speaker 5: your I believe your grandma passed away. You talked about
Speaker 5: your good friend Howard who passed away. We have to
Speaker 5: rely and my condolences. Of course, we have to rely
Speaker 5: on the people that we love to be our anchors.
Speaker 5: And so I know for my Christmas, I really was
Speaker 5: very anxious about seeing.
Speaker 6: My family, my in laws.
Speaker 5: You know, some of the people that I grew up with,
Speaker 5: Because when you get together at that dinner table. No
Speaker 5: matter how old you are, how far you've come, what
Speaker 5: you have achieved, it goes back to those basic family dynamics. Right,
Speaker 5: Mom always loved you best. Oh, you were the one
Speaker 5: who got all the attention. I was the middle child
Speaker 5: and I was ignored. So we replay those dynamics. But
Speaker 5: this is an opportunity for us to have an emotional replay,
Speaker 5: to use our minds in a way where we are
Speaker 5: in present day and dealing with a lot of the
Speaker 5: past issues, but using our intelligence, our cognition to be
Speaker 5: able to talk about these unresolved issues and to address them.
Speaker 5: We may not solve them then and there, but it's
Speaker 5: important that we be able to continue to address them,
Speaker 5: and it may take years, but at least we're talking
Speaker 5: to one another. At least we're there, because you never
Speaker 5: know who may not be there in the next holiday
Speaker 5: Erish who you have right now, because in this uncertain world,
Speaker 5: we never know from one day to the next. Love
Speaker 5: that person that you are with right now.
Speaker 3: It's so true, and you know, I think we all
Speaker 3: need to be reminded of that during this holiday season.
Speaker 3: It's interesting. Obviously TJ and I have had some incredibly
Speaker 3: like very very significant life changes, family changes, different dynamics.
Speaker 3: And I have now my twenty one year old daughter
Speaker 3: from college in the apartment right now with us, my
Speaker 3: seventeen year old who's stressed out. She's getting college acceptances
Speaker 3: and deferrals as we speak, and so there's just a
Speaker 3: lot of I don't want to say tension, but there's
Speaker 3: just there's a lot of energy in the apartment.
Speaker 6: And you may want to say tension.
Speaker 1: Yes, that yep, that absolutely is a part of it.
Speaker 2: And then you're throw in her black boyfriend. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: doctor Guardia, you talk about stress.
Speaker 5: WHOA, Well, that's that that that listen, that's stability right there,
Speaker 5: that's stability.
Speaker 6: If you're hearing it from a black therapist.
Speaker 2: Yah, I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: What what is the best way to diffuse the situation
Speaker 3: when you've got people who might not always be living
Speaker 3: together around each other suddenly thrown into an apartment together.
Speaker 3: You know, even as a parent, as a sibling, is
Speaker 3: do the rules stay the same based on who you are,
Speaker 3: a role you play in the family. How to best
Speaker 3: diffuse a situation and to not be triggered? And I
Speaker 3: think we all I hear my daughters use that word
Speaker 3: all the time. You're triggering me.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even know what that means, but all right, and.
Speaker 3: Whose responsibility is it to maintain their reaction to the trigger?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 5: Right, the right word was tension. So with you, with
Speaker 5: your twenty one year old and your seventeen year old
Speaker 5: there they are going through a very challenging time of
Speaker 5: their lives, as you are going through a challenging time
Speaker 5: in your lives, you know, Amy and TJ. So sometimes
Speaker 5: we may not have the bandwidth to be able to
Speaker 5: look at what it is that, you know, our children
Speaker 5: are experiencing. But at the end of the day, as adults,
Speaker 5: we are the leaders of the pack.
Speaker 6: We are the alphas.
Speaker 5: So we have to be able to find a way
Speaker 5: to allow them to be able to express themselves in
Speaker 5: a very constructive way, even if they are irrational, even
Speaker 5: if they're feeling a lot of emotion, even if they're
Speaker 5: you know, striking out or what have you. It for
Speaker 5: you as the leader, it's allowing them to have that space,
Speaker 5: yet at the same time being able to give them
Speaker 5: the guardrails to say it's okay, it's okay to have
Speaker 5: your emotions, it's okay to be anxious. It's okay to be,
Speaker 5: you know, overly excited to the point of where you're
Speaker 5: stepping on some toes, but learn how to temper that
Speaker 5: because that's part of our lives, that's the way that
Speaker 5: we do function in a more constructive way.
Speaker 2: We're talking about seventeen to twenty year old here her daughters,
Speaker 2: and you talk about potentially being irrational and there of
Speaker 2: a certain age, But do you need to extend that
Speaker 2: grace to everybody throughout your life? Right? There are grown
Speaker 2: folks who can be a rational and we're all looking
Speaker 2: for a way, certainly when we're stressed out. And I
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna say it, but thank you for that out there.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to say it. But what can you
Speaker 2: what can you do there to manage people? How much
Speaker 2: of yourself should you extend for somebody else's trigger? As
Speaker 2: you say, you.
Speaker 5: Know, we we have to try to live up to
Speaker 5: a higher standard and not own other people's.
Speaker 6: Anks and not own.
Speaker 5: They're some of there. And I'm not talking about your daughters.
Speaker 5: I'm talking about sometimes in the general public and what
Speaker 5: the two of you have gone through.
Speaker 6: Other people's projections.
Speaker 5: We can't own those things and it's so easy to
Speaker 5: absorb that negative energy. And when I speak to my patients,
Speaker 5: I say, the way that you do that is to
Speaker 5: understand what it is that's being thrown at you, expressed it.
Speaker 5: You may not have anything to do with you at all.
Speaker 5: That is their own intra psychic conflicts, unresolved baggage that
Speaker 5: they're carrying around, and they get into something called splitting
Speaker 5: where they then project a lot of their insecurities onto
Speaker 5: you because they don't want to own their own thing. So,
Speaker 5: in some ways, I like to call it flipping the
Speaker 5: script and tricking the devil. That person that may come
Speaker 5: against you in that particular way, or who may be
Speaker 5: rude in front of you, or who may even be
Speaker 5: part of your family and is acting out in a
Speaker 5: certain way.
Speaker 6: You have to show them.
Speaker 5: You don't have to, but it makes you the better
Speaker 5: person to show the grace and understanding of saying, hey,
Speaker 5: what's really going on here? How is it that I
Speaker 5: can help you, but also showing the grace and understanding
Speaker 5: to yourself to be able to say, there are boundaries here,
Speaker 5: and there's only so far that you can go where
Speaker 5: I either tell you you stop or I pull back
Speaker 5: and walk away.
Speaker 2: Ro certainly so far that you can go or I'm
Speaker 2: going to step back and pull back and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: walk away, Okay.
Speaker 1: It's so hard not to be defensive in those moments.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have, I have failed a million times
Speaker 3: in how I've reacted, and I do think it's okay,
Speaker 3: and I've found this to be a very powerful tool.
Speaker 3: I say I'm sorry a lot. I don't always get
Speaker 3: it right. I don't get it right a lot of times.
Speaker 3: And you know, as parents, I always tell my daughters,
Speaker 3: I don't have a handbook. I don't know, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know, talk to your therapist about it.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, I'm not, but no, I don't. There isn't
Speaker 1: a rule book for any of this.
Speaker 2: We Doug, Doug Dougarder, we are to you. When you
Speaker 2: say I'm sorry, it drives me crazy. Why because i'm
Speaker 2: sorry comes twenty four hours later, and that's great, that's great.
Speaker 2: But I'm always the guy of It's not a matter
Speaker 2: of it's how you react in the moment that makes
Speaker 2: all the difference in the world, because in that moment,
Speaker 2: we have a chance to go this way or this way,
Speaker 2: and if you go that way, I'm out. I'm done. Wow,
Speaker 2: you know I'm done. I'm checked out for the DAB.
Speaker 2: I'm not done done.
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Are you How long are you done for?
Speaker 6: When you say your death?
Speaker 2: It's two days?
Speaker 1: No, it's two days, Jeff, it's two days.
Speaker 2: I know. I admit that, doctor guardia and that's something
Speaker 2: maybe you can't help us with. But I am. I
Speaker 2: am really really bad about this. I don't scream, I
Speaker 2: don't yell, I don't do anything. I don't name call,
Speaker 2: I don't get aggressive and nothing. But I will check
Speaker 2: out and you're gonna have to wait until I get it.
Speaker 2: I don't need you to say I'm sorry. I don't
Speaker 2: need you to help me. I have to work through it,
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm trying to get better at doing it quicker,
Speaker 2: but it hasn't so far.
Speaker 1: Now, well, let's get Jeff's take on this when we
Speaker 1: come back. I can't wait. I am taking notes here.
Speaker 1: Maybe actually, TJ, could you take notes?
Speaker 2: I will do Okay, I'm taking this seriously. We have
Speaker 2: a trained professional here, and this is something that we
Speaker 2: deal with. I know other people deal with as well,
Speaker 2: But how people deal with conflicts arguments in a relationship
Speaker 2: and how to get past them and quickly. Sometimes doctor
Speaker 2: Gardier is what seems like should be the motivation, But
Speaker 2: should that be should that be a goal to get
Speaker 2: over it as quickly as possible.
Speaker 5: I think the goal really should be to learn as
Speaker 5: much as possible, and if you could learn as much
Speaker 5: as possible, that'll help you. Amy said something that I
Speaker 5: really like, those two words that we also don't hear
Speaker 5: enough in relationships or in the world. I'm sorry. And
Speaker 5: when you're saying I'm sorry, it's showing empathy and giving validation,
Speaker 5: but it's also taking responsibility as a partners, as a
Speaker 5: as a parent, saying yeah, maybe I could have done better.
Speaker 5: I don't quite understand why you're so angry at me,
Speaker 5: but I'm sure there's something that I could have done,
Speaker 5: and I'm going to work on taking more responsibility with that.
Speaker 2: Moving on to TJ.
Speaker 3: Now, yes, and two days I think I think it
Speaker 3: went on to TJ right there.
Speaker 6: I think TJ heard something there. So this so this thing.
Speaker 5: TJ of you know very quickly, it takes you a
Speaker 5: day or two to work out your thing. And I'm
Speaker 5: saying this to you with all due respect. Sometimes it
Speaker 5: can be a little bit selfish when we need to
Speaker 5: take that day or two to work it out, and
Speaker 5: our partner is left trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker 5: So one of the things that you can do, which
Speaker 5: maybe you are doing, is in that one or two
Speaker 5: days that you take, you know, to get yourself together,
Speaker 5: to reregulate, get your hormonal system working and balanced again,
Speaker 5: so you can deal in a positive way in the relationship.
Speaker 5: Is checking in yes, I'm working on this, Yes I'm okay, Yes,
Speaker 5: how are you doing while I work it out? Those
Speaker 5: sorts of things allow you to have the space to
Speaker 5: really pull it together.
Speaker 2: Okay, And I heard hormonal. So you're saying it's not
Speaker 2: my fault, I have a chemical imbalance.
Speaker 6: Well, listen, I mean this is all about the brain.
Speaker 5: One of the things we know is you can't separate,
Speaker 5: you know, spiritual from psychological from the brain. You know,
Speaker 5: a lot of the things that happen when we go
Speaker 5: into conflict also affects our brain, our dopamine, our neurotransmitters.
Speaker 5: So when we go into fight or flight, it becomes
Speaker 5: a very chemical thing where either we stay and work
Speaker 5: it out, or we run away, or we freeze. And
Speaker 5: so when we reregulate our brains. When we calm down,
Speaker 5: then it allows us to see things with a more
Speaker 5: rational mind versus with the more emotional mind.
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I would rather have him yell at
Speaker 3: me than freeze me out for two days.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm spiral.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know what to say, what to do,
Speaker 3: what he thinks some we've tried this before it gets
Speaker 3: to that place, and we've only had a couple doozies
Speaker 3: where this has happened. But we tried playfully at a
Speaker 3: better point to have a safe word when someone starts
Speaker 3: doing something or saying something that you know could potentially
Speaker 3: take our relationship off the rails.
Speaker 1: We say, what.
Speaker 2: Dan Steely? And the reason is that's our safe for it.
Speaker 6: But what is that word?
Speaker 2: It's is Dan Steely, but it's something that makes us
Speaker 2: laugh because the band is Steely.
Speaker 3: Dan, right, and TJ had never heard of the band,
Speaker 3: and when he was trying to recall it later, he goes,
Speaker 3: what's that band called Dan Steely? And I died laughing, No,
Speaker 3: it's Steely Dan. But then we decided because it made
Speaker 3: us laugh, yes, why not have that be our safe
Speaker 3: I guess it's a safe phrase.
Speaker 1: It's not a safe word.
Speaker 2: That has a different connotation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know it's safe phrase. All right.
Speaker 3: What do you think about that concept? I think it's
Speaker 3: helped a couple of times.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 5: I think when you have a safe word that really
Speaker 5: does say let's take the time out and we trust
Speaker 5: one another because we agree on that safe word. So
Speaker 5: if we're talking about Dan Steely, then we can say,
Speaker 5: you know what, Amy, I will come back to you.
Speaker 5: Oh he knows, of course, I know Steely, Dan, Come on.
Speaker 2: What song is that I'm sorry?
Speaker 1: Come back to it is?
Speaker 6: Peg guy will come back to you?
Speaker 2: Right wow? Yeah, y'all got me on this one in
Speaker 2: our last few moments here.
Speaker 5: But I gotta ask you, I gotta I gotta ask
Speaker 5: you this TJ very quick. So when you take that
Speaker 5: day or two away from Amy, it's a way for
Speaker 5: you to reregulate, to work through things so you can
Speaker 5: be your better self. But are you aware that that's
Speaker 5: also pretty painful for her because it's easy for her
Speaker 5: to interpret that as he is also being very passive aggressive.
Speaker 5: Not only is he healing, but he's also denying me
Speaker 5: his presence that I really need in my time of pain.
Speaker 5: So might be something you might want to consider, because
Speaker 5: we do it all the time, not thinking about perhaps
Speaker 5: what the other person might be feeling at that time.
Speaker 2: We had plenty of time for the question. But the
Speaker 2: answer is complex. I will tell you I have a
Speaker 2: very bad habit. I don't let a lot of people in.
Speaker 2: And there are people in my life that I have well,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe just friends or colleagues or something. You
Speaker 2: you you burn me one time. You do one time,
Speaker 2: and I'm done with you, and I will shut people
Speaker 2: out and I'm not very forgiving. That is true. But
Speaker 2: if I have somebody in my life like this, that's
Speaker 2: this close to me, that is the the the person
Speaker 2: who brought the pain that I'm feeling. This person is
Speaker 2: not going to leave my life. I get that, but
Speaker 2: I am still dealing with that thing and grappling with
Speaker 2: being hurt so so, so bad, and then trying to
Speaker 2: go back and give love or receive love from that
Speaker 2: person that pain me. I know, that's what everything you
Speaker 2: said I agree with one hundred percent, but that is
Speaker 2: oftentimes what's happening with me, and I'm not again. I
Speaker 2: don't go away for two days. We don't just stop
Speaker 2: talking for two days. But it's not the same. It's different.
Speaker 2: I am a very warm and loving and person and
Speaker 2: when that goes away, I'm sure that doesn't feel good.
Speaker 1: Oh it's awful.
Speaker 2: Sorry, so awful.
Speaker 6: Sorry, And I think I think what might add.
Speaker 5: But thank you for saying I'm sorry, you know, because
Speaker 5: that those words are very important, and you're really listening
Speaker 5: as to what it is you know that Amy needs
Speaker 5: as she listens as to what it is that you need.
Speaker 5: You need some of that space sometimes. But I want
Speaker 5: the two of you to consider that, you know, everyone
Speaker 5: has been through something, you know, really really soul shaking
Speaker 5: in their lives. You know you've been You've all been
Speaker 5: through things. Other couples have been through things, and so on.
Speaker 5: We know this is a very complex matter, but just
Speaker 5: focusing on the two of you in the here and now,
Speaker 5: consider that even though you have this extremely strong love
Speaker 5: and are united in this way, that you're.
Speaker 6: Still hurting very much.
Speaker 5: You know, you both smile, you both, you know, appear
Speaker 5: to the cameras, you both do your professional gigs, you
Speaker 5: both take care of your families, your combined families, but
Speaker 5: the two of you are still still in emotional pain
Speaker 5: and you're getting stronger every day, but being in that
Speaker 5: pain may make things even much more, put you both
Speaker 5: in a more vulnerable place when you're dealing with issues
Speaker 5: amongst one another.
Speaker 6: Really actually having one another.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's really powerful. Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker 3: And I think anyone out there, you know, our situation
Speaker 3: isn't unique. It's just unique in that it's been blasted
Speaker 3: everywhere and put in a very public space. But I
Speaker 3: think so many people can relate to those types of issues.
Speaker 3: When you have painful periods in your life, you tend
Speaker 3: to take it out, or feel that emotional stress, you
Speaker 3: put it onto the person you love the most.
Speaker 5: I think that, well, let's not sugarcoat it's been life
Speaker 5: changing for the two of you, what the two of
Speaker 5: you have gone through. But what's really important, there's something
Speaker 5: called post traumatic growth. We've all heard of post traumatic
Speaker 5: stress disorder, where a trauma happens and then you know,
Speaker 5: we go through anxiety and depression and you know, flashbacks
Speaker 5: and nightmares and conflicts and so on. But post traumatic
Speaker 5: growth is about going from being a victim to a
Speaker 5: survivor to then being a victor. And I think we
Speaker 5: talked about this, you know, way back when where when
Speaker 5: you go down that rabbit hole and come out of it,
Speaker 5: you are stronger than you ever went in. And hopefully
Speaker 5: that is the promise of the two of you to
Speaker 5: one another and to your children and to your families,
Speaker 5: that you really do become beacons on how to work
Speaker 5: through some of the hardest issues, relationship issues that anyone
Speaker 5: really can face.
Speaker 2: Well, we didn't expect this necessarily to turn into a
Speaker 2: relationship counseling session, but it did for us great and
Speaker 2: for a lot of folks, because a lot of people
Speaker 2: can absolutely use the advice you just gave. And look,
Speaker 2: we appreciate it because how much of the relationship counselor
Speaker 2: here in New York, Wow, at least three three hundred.
Speaker 2: But all we got to do is buy him a lunch.
Speaker 1: When Jeff, thank you.
Speaker 3: There go, thank you so much. We truly appreciate your
Speaker 3: incredible words of wisdom.
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5: And for folks, as you're getting through the holidays and
Speaker 5: you're approaching the New year's now, please remember don't be
Speaker 5: so hard on yourself, don't pretend, don't feel that you
Speaker 5: have to be everywhere and do everything. Now is the
Speaker 5: time to take care of yourself, especially if you need love,
Speaker 5: especially if you need the care of your own soul
Speaker 5: so that you can eventually be there for others, but
Speaker 5: you have to be there for yourself first.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a perfect way to end. Jeff, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. We love you, and we'll talk soon, really soon.
Speaker 2: Actually, yes, and everybody, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: I'm TJ.
Speaker 1: I'm Amy.
Speaker 2: You can catch us, of course on Instagram you can
Speaker 2: find us, but also you can follow our show at
Speaker 2: Amy and TJ Podcast on Instagram.