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Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust me?

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Speaker 2: Right? Ever? Lead you wastry? Trust?

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Speaker 1: This is the truth, the only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about Colt's extreme belief

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Speaker 3: and manipulation from two horse girls who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I'm low Lablanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. This week we're

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Speaker 3: joined by Jasper Hoffman, writer, podcaster, and former Mennonite. In

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Speaker 3: part one, today, she's going to tell us about how

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Speaker 3: her parents went from being a punk rock atheist and

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Speaker 3: an anthropology major to homesteading and homeschooling, which eventually led

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Speaker 3: them to church, first a non denominational one and then

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Speaker 3: of course, a Mennonite church that came into town when Jasper.

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Speaker 1: Was a kid.

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Speaker 4: She'll tell us about how it then escalated to her

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Speaker 4: family moving to the Midwest, getting rid of all their

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Speaker 4: material possessions and committing wholeheartedly to being Mennonites with redacted

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Speaker 4: encyclopedias and physical punishment in the basement for children who

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Speaker 4: are considered rebellious, and why she was forbidden from going back.

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Speaker 3: To school, and stay tuned next week for part two

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Speaker 3: because she will tell us about leaving the church, but

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Speaker 3: before we go to men and I was going to

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Speaker 3: try to make that a thing before we go to

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Speaker 3: into the Medonit world with her, Megan, what's your cult

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Speaker 3: het thing?

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Speaker 4: Well, as you might know, there's a guy named Samuel

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Speaker 4: Bateman who started as called sure Is and he was

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Speaker 4: sentenced to fifty years in prison, which is incredible. We've

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Speaker 4: been following the story through your mom. We've had Gnomes

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Speaker 4: on the podcast, we have mckel coming up on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Lots of people who have escaped from this man's grip.

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Speaker 4: And I've been watching court TV of him representing himself.

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Speaker 1: Can you say Ted Bundy, Oh my god. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Something I learned this weekend was that so called sovereign

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Speaker 3: citizens represent themselves in court because they don't recognize the

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Speaker 3: government and they don't recognize lawyers as like legitimate and

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Speaker 3: Sam apparently because I was watching this with my this

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Speaker 3: presentation with my mom, she was whispering to me saying,

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Speaker 3: that's why Sam represented himself because he subscribes to this idea.

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Speaker 1: Stop.

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Speaker 4: Well, he did a really bad job, thank god. And

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Speaker 4: it's just so number one, he's like really turning on

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Speaker 4: this Michelle Dugger voice, so he's almost talking like a

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Speaker 4: woman now, Like he's trying to be super sweet, so

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Speaker 4: you know, he like like the sweetest sweet as sweet

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Speaker 4: could ever be is his new cadence, and he's impossible

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Speaker 4: to understand.

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Speaker 1: You can't.

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Speaker 4: He cannot make a clear point to save his life.

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Speaker 4: He thinks this is all about like the girls being

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Speaker 4: in the tractor trailer. The trailer, I guess I'm not

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Speaker 4: attractor trailer, and like he keeps being like, I didn't

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Speaker 4: know they were in there, and it's like, that's not

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Speaker 4: the problem. You did know they were in there, but

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Speaker 4: that's not actually what any of us really care about. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's just always fascinating to watch these people really think

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Speaker 4: that they are smarter than the average bear.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I know, please please keep that in.

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Speaker 4: So I I'm so glad he got served way more

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Speaker 4: than the fifty years, because then there's all these other

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Speaker 4: child endangerment clauses, whatever the fuck it's called. I'm not

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Speaker 4: a lawyer, and I know that, so you know, he's

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Speaker 4: going to jail for a long time. It's so satisfying

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Speaker 4: and more to come on this story, Yes, definitely, And

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Speaker 4: it's been really fun to see all the women at

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Speaker 4: his child together in cahoots, you know, like cheering each

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Speaker 4: other on, like yeah.

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Speaker 3: What a nice ending to a very otherwise very alarming story.

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Speaker 4: I know. I mean they're just like making direct eye

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Speaker 4: contact and being like, yep, you're an asshole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I know. It's so sick. It's so awesome.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, God, it's the earth is healing.

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Speaker 1: What about you? What's your cultios thing?

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Speaker 3: I went to my first cult conference, which I'm so

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Speaker 3: sad you weren't able to attend, I know, but been

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Speaker 3: meaning to go to this for years. So IXA is

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Speaker 3: the International Cultic Studies Association, and every year they have

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Speaker 3: a conference. It's in a different city every year. It

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Speaker 3: was like Manchester a few years ago, so I definitely

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Speaker 3: didn't go to that one because what am I made

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Speaker 3: of money? But this year it was in San Diego,

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Speaker 3: which is just a couple hours south of us in

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Speaker 3: LA and so I was able to go and met

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Speaker 3: my mom there and saw so many of our former guests,

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Speaker 3: which was so cool because some of them I've only

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Speaker 3: ever seen in the little square on the on the screen,

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I got to go to some presentations there, some really

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Speaker 3: interesting ones. There was this guy Dave Buddha who did

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Speaker 3: one that that was just like a fascinating premise, which

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Speaker 3: is he called it planned obsolescence in personal growth.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this idea that.

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Speaker 3: Like, you go to these larger group awareness trainings like

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Speaker 3: a Tony Robbins or whatever, a landmark, and you are

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Speaker 3: sort of sold this idea that you're going to have

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Speaker 3: a permanently altered state of your life after that, when

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Speaker 3: in reality, there's a very knowingly, a very temporary and

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Speaker 3: fleeting emotional state being induced in you in these weekends. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and the goal is to get you to try to

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Speaker 3: keep chasing that feeling with the belief that it's going

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Speaker 3: to be eventually permanent. But instead it's actually like they

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Speaker 3: are well aware that it's typically not. I mean, of course,

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Speaker 3: there are some people whose lives are changed forever, but

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Speaker 3: for the most part, and he was, you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of describing how it's a bell curve and most people

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Speaker 3: are in the middle, and of course there's people on

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Speaker 3: either end of the you know, extremes, but generally, you go,

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Speaker 3: you feel something, you go back to your life, you

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Speaker 3: don't feel it anymore, right, And so just the idea

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Speaker 3: of planned obsolescence, which for the folks who don't know

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Speaker 3: that term. That's kind of like this idea that let's

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Speaker 3: say your iPhone or whatever technological product, whatever product you have,

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Speaker 3: is designed to not last forever because if it eventually breaks.

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Speaker 1: Down, you do have to buy another one.

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Speaker 3: And I just thought that was a really cool concept

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Speaker 3: to apply to like self help seminars.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I relate to this a lot, and that the

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Speaker 4: two by two is the cult that I grew up in.

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Speaker 4: We would have these conventions that were like four day long,

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Speaker 4: pretty intense seminars, you could say, and afterwards you would feel,

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Speaker 4: in my experience, would almost bring all of our parents

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Speaker 4: because I'm looking at this from my head into like

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Speaker 4: an OCD state of mind where it's.

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Speaker 1: Like fresh slate, clean slate. We've got to be perfect

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Speaker 1: from here on out, you know. And then it would

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Speaker 1: just be like.

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Speaker 4: Slowly, slowly, you'd start to make human mistakes and then pray.

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Speaker 1: It would it be like.

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Speaker 4: Ramped up for next year's convention where you felt so

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Speaker 4: guilty for not being perfect, and everyone would pray, Like

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Speaker 4: people would literally pray that they would die on their

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Speaker 4: way home from convention.

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Speaker 1: So that they would be clean.

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Speaker 5: Ah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all in there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think like, you know, it just pretty typical,

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Speaker 3: this idea that there's some state of perfection you're going

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Speaker 3: to achieve, when, of course, we are human. We are

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Speaker 3: human beings. Yeah, we're human beings. And I did say beans.

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Speaker 3: I just want to clarify that was intentional. I was

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Speaker 3: being cute. Sorry, I don't think it's.

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Speaker 1: I was like, totally, we are we're human beings.

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Speaker 4: Although I will say that Tony Robbins conference did permanently

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Speaker 4: jage my life, but not for reasons about him. I

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Speaker 4: just left it early and came home and caught my

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Speaker 4: boyfriend doing that.

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if we can attribute that to that. No,

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Speaker 1: but I did leave. Oh so look at that. I

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Speaker 1: was like holding the notebook.

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Speaker 4: I was holding the notebook, the Tony Robbins notebook that

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Speaker 4: I'd filled out, and I was like, I'm leaving you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, what a perfect breakup story, Tony, call me shout out.

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Speaker 1: Anyway. That was just one of many.

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Speaker 3: There was another one on how cold you know, how

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Speaker 3: many of them replicate their coercive dynamics even after the

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Speaker 3: leader dies. You know, there's just a lot of interesting stuff,

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Speaker 3: and so folks check out, it's if you feel so inclined.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like some future topics for us to discuss. But

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Speaker 3: for now, Cindy, shall we talk to Jasper? Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Jasper Hoffman to trust me. Thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for being with us.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so much to talk to you about.

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Speaker 3: First of all, you host a podcast called The Plain

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Speaker 3: People's Podcast, and the reason that you host this podcast

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Speaker 3: is because of your own upbringing. First of all, what

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Speaker 3: does plane people refer to?

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Speaker 5: Good question, because a lot of people mistake it for

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Speaker 5: the planes people because they think it's people that are

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Speaker 5: out on the planes and it's not.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 5: Plain people is a term that's very commonly used within

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Speaker 5: the church and then outside of the church to describe

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Speaker 5: members of the conservative Anabaptist churches. So that would be

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Speaker 5: conservative Amish, Mennonite Brethren, a little bit of maybe like

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Speaker 5: the Hutterites.

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Speaker 2: But yes, so the plain people.

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Speaker 5: It ties into wanting to be separate from the world,

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Speaker 5: so they want to be viewed as plain and simple.

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Speaker 5: So the plain People's just a nice little umbrella term

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Speaker 5: to kind of include all those churches.

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Speaker 1: Do they talk to each other?

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Speaker 3: Like in my head the Amish people don't like Mennonite,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, thinking like of a.

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Speaker 4: Like West Side Story kind of thing where they hate

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Speaker 4: each other, but they sound like they kind of have

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Speaker 4: a lot in common.

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Speaker 2: They do.

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Speaker 5: I will say that any cult or any church is

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Speaker 5: a lot like lasagna, where it's pretty much all the

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Speaker 5: same ingredients, but everybody has their own little unique flavoring

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Speaker 5: and everyone thinks that they are the winner.

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Speaker 1: Of the pot luck for sure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so they do talk to each other, and it's

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Speaker 5: very common to for churches, like if you'll leave Amish,

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Speaker 5: then they'll go to Mennonite, or some Menonite will.

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Speaker 2: End up going Amish.

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Speaker 5: And then there's kind of to make it even more confusing,

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Speaker 5: you have Amish Menonites. Oh so you just kind of

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Speaker 5: have every branch that you could possibly want to go into.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, wow, yeah I didn't know that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm so curious about the ins and outs of

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Speaker 3: the different ones, But firstly, let's start with the one

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Speaker 3: you're in. Also, something so fascinating by your story is

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Speaker 3: that you were not born into it. You your parents converted.

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Speaker 3: So what was going on with your parents before this happened?

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Speaker 3: How did this transition happen.

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Speaker 2: It's funny.

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Speaker 5: I had a conversation with my mom at breakfast over

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Speaker 5: this because she was like, did you tell anybody like

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Speaker 5: this portion of it? I was like, no, that's your story.

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Speaker 5: So I try to keep their stuff for their own telling.

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Speaker 5: But ultimately as an adult now I'm in my forties,

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Speaker 5: and it changes the perspective of looking at your family

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Speaker 5: joining a cult versus when you're in the experience. So

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Speaker 5: I look at them as individuals, not only as my parents,

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Speaker 5: and I really think that what was happening. Obviously, we

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Speaker 5: didn't have social media back in the you know, up

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Speaker 5: until recently, so it was more difficult to connect with

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Speaker 5: people that had common lifestyle goals as you and My

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Speaker 5: mom grew up in Hollywood, she went to private French school.

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Speaker 5: She grew up in Rolling Hills, so she went to

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Speaker 5: school with Jodie Foster Christie Brinkley. So it's like, not

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Speaker 5: how you would think would want to start quilting. Yeahs

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Speaker 5: opposite world, Yeah, okay, totally.

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Speaker 2: And she was a punk rocker, so wow.

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Speaker 5: I was really into alternative living, which kind of makes

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Speaker 5: sense when you think about joining into a cult, because

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Speaker 5: it too is alternative living and it's just not going mainstream.

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Speaker 2: So I think there was.

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Speaker 5: Always that with that attraction there for something that was

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Speaker 5: like a little bit unique and different. And my parents

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Speaker 5: met in college in northern California, in Humboldt County at HSU,

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Speaker 5: and my dad was an anthropology major my mom was

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Speaker 5: studying history, so they were very fascinated with culture also,

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Speaker 5: and they ended up getting married and lived in southern California,

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Speaker 5: where I was born, and by the time I was three,

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Speaker 5: they realized they didn't want to raise me in the city,

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Speaker 5: and so they moved back up to Humboldt. And if

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Speaker 5: anybody knows anything about humbold County, it is hippies, lots

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Speaker 5: of weed, and very alternative, off the grid living. And

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Speaker 5: so it should come as no surprise that in the

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Speaker 5: early late eighties early nineties there was this very large

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Speaker 5: movement which we see today with the tradwife movement, but

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Speaker 5: there wasn't social media to really drive that and to

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Speaker 5: curate that, so instead it was a lot of homesteadying

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Speaker 5: and a lot of people that were pulling their children

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Speaker 5: out of public school to homeschool them, way before it

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Speaker 5: became accepted like it is today.

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Speaker 2: So I was a product of that. So I went

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Speaker 2: to public school through third grade, and at that time

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Speaker 2: there was some changes in the family dynamic.

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Speaker 5: My grandfather passed away, and so my mom, who was

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Speaker 5: a self proclaimed atheist punk rocker, made a promise to

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Speaker 5: her father that she would take me to church. He

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Speaker 5: was devout Catholic, and so she started attending a non

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Speaker 5: denominational church with me. And at this point I was

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Speaker 5: nine years old, so I was in third grade, and

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Speaker 5: through this non denominational church, we were introduced to the

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Speaker 5: homeschool group that was there, and it was large. I

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Speaker 5: mean we had several families, so the variety was there.

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Speaker 5: Whether it was somebody that was secular that just was

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Speaker 5: anti government, or it was this fundamentalist movement with conservative Christians.

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Speaker 5: So it was kind of like you could fall into

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Speaker 5: the spectrum, and so it was very welcoming for my parents.

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Speaker 5: I feel like, at that time.

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Speaker 3: What is a homeschool group, Like, it's just a smaller

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Speaker 3: version of school. Then at that point, right, how does

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Speaker 3: it work exactly? I was homeschool for part of my

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Speaker 3: schooling as well.

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Speaker 5: It was very organized, so we had a secretary, we

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Speaker 5: had somebody that was curating different field trips, we had

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Speaker 5: lots of learning experiences.

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Speaker 2: The families really connected and got together. So yes, in

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Speaker 2: a way, we were not all studying together, right, So

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Speaker 2: we were within the home doing our own schooling and

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Speaker 2: had our own curriculum based off of a family's needs,

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Speaker 2: which is what ties into how we were introduced to Mennonites.

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Speaker 2: But for community and connection, there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: support whenever it came to doing field trips, into doing

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Speaker 2: I see a lot of things. So you weren't just

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Speaker 2: isolated kind of on your own, right, right, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I will say I remember like playing a softball team

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Speaker 4: in high school that was the homeschool team, and I

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Speaker 4: was like, this is gonna be a piece of cake,

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Speaker 4: and they like beat our asses. A very organized system.

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Speaker 4: The practicing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in high school, I was in the I was

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Speaker 3: in a homeschool program in Burbank in LA. But it

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Speaker 3: was like a lot of like actor kids, So it

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Speaker 3: wasn't it wasn't like that organized.

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Speaker 1: And I went to homeschool prom and it was the worst.

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Speaker 1: It was so bad. Nobody knew each other. It was

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Speaker 1: so awkward.

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Speaker 4: Were you voted homeschool prom queen? Of course not left early.

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Speaker 3: I was like I feel so alone anyway, so I

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Speaker 3: feel you okay, So well, I'm just so curious of

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Speaker 3: how it felt to be a third grader with these

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Speaker 3: parents who are seemingly so cool, and then all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden they're like, wait, we're doing this now, Like

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Speaker 3: what were you thinking and feeling?

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Speaker 5: I liken it a lot to just being bore, like

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Speaker 5: a lobster. So you have no idea really what you're

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Speaker 5: getting into with this.

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Speaker 2: And I was sick. I was nine. All I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do was ride horses and not have to sit

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Speaker 2: in school. So to me, they did. They did ask me.

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Speaker 5: My parents did ask me if I would be interested

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Speaker 5: in being homeschool So I did have some autonomy at

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Speaker 5: that point and a voice, I feel like, and so

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Speaker 5: at that time it sounded fun. So initially it was great.

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Speaker 5: And the only thing was is I just remember there

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Speaker 5: being a lot of contention in the home because my

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Speaker 5: parents are artsy fartsy, and all of a sudden we're

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Speaker 5: trying to learn math and having somebody, you know, everybody

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Speaker 5: hates math and the family, and so I just remember

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Speaker 5: it being a lot of arguing over like science and

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Speaker 5: anything that just didn't come naturally.

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Speaker 2: For us, and it was difficult, so through that homeschool group,

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Speaker 2: though at the time there were not a lot of

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Speaker 2: supporting textbook companies, so we had Abecca Christian Light Publications.

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Speaker 2: There was a few other that were coming.

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Speaker 5: Like from Bill Gothard, more fundy type of things than Brooklets.

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Speaker 2: Yes, exactly so.

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Speaker 5: And the nice thing about, I guess homeschooling is that

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Speaker 5: you can kind of pick and choose your curriculum based

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Speaker 5: off of how you want to teach your children. So

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Speaker 5: one of the textbooks companies was coming out of Crocket, Kentucky,

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Speaker 5: and they are called Roden Staff and they produced the

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Speaker 5: text most of the textbooks used in Amish and Mennonite schools,

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Speaker 5: and a lot of homeschool families like how simple it

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Speaker 5: is to teach out of the Rowden Staff books.

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Speaker 2: They make it very easy.

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Speaker 5: So a lot of the families were sourcing their books

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Speaker 5: from Roden Staff, to the point where Roden Staff had

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Speaker 5: reached out to the secretary of the homeschool group to

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Speaker 5: see why, because obviously there wasn't a church out there,

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Speaker 5: and so they were trying to get a little bit

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Speaker 5: of a feel for the area, and so they had

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Speaker 5: asked if they sent missionaries there to do a Revival

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Speaker 5: week long service of Mennonite.

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Speaker 2: Would there be interest?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Oh, so there was? And my parents were like, I'll

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Speaker 5: never forget. My mom was like, oh my god, those

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Speaker 5: are the people that make the quilts. Yes, So we

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Speaker 5: ended up hosting a family. They sent missionaries down from Alberta,

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Speaker 5: Canada and up from Farming to New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: What does Revival week mean? Really quick? What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: So? Really?

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Speaker 5: Like from what I remember being that age, it was

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Speaker 5: pretty much church service, every evening evening service. And I

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Speaker 5: think they were just gauging what the opportunities were and

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Speaker 5: what the interests were, if if it was worth sending

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Speaker 5: and establishing a pop up church there, which there was,

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Speaker 5: so they did.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 5: My parents are one of the founding families to bring

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Speaker 5: Mennonights to California.

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Speaker 1: Pute a claim debate.

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Speaker 4: So these revival people come and they're bringing their books

365
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Speaker 4: and there are things, and you're going to church every night,

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Speaker 4: which ps sounds like my worst nightmare. And you are

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Speaker 4: like this seems weird or cool or interesting or I

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Speaker 4: think at.

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Speaker 2: That time, well, I mean to be fair.

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Speaker 5: The week prior to that, I had a horse that

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Speaker 5: kicked me in my face, and so I had a hole.

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, that's important to note. So you're in

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Speaker 4: a weird state of mind.

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Speaker 5: And literally yes, So I literally was like had to

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Speaker 5: miss some of the revival because I was just like

376
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Speaker 5: laid up with my face like completely just massacred.

377
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Speaker 2: So there was that going on. But I remember just

378
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Speaker 2: being intrigued. I mean, it doesn't I was nine, yeah,

379
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Speaker 2: you know, and I'm going with other children that were

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Speaker 2: in the homeschool group, so it didn't seem like I

381
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Speaker 2: was really at odds. And so I just really don't

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Speaker 2: think that I had a full understanding of what was

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Speaker 2: going to be required of me. Yeah, and there is.

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Speaker 5: It's the love bombing phase of any church, I believe,

385
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Speaker 5: and any abusive relationship where everything just looks so pretty

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Speaker 5: on the outside. And to boot, they have amazing food.

387
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Speaker 5: So you've got great, great food you have you know,

388
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Speaker 5: everything is like just very warm and comforting and it

389
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Speaker 5: feels fun.

390
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Speaker 2: And it provided a lot of.

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Speaker 5: Structure for families in the area that had a lot

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Speaker 5: of dysfunction within because I think naturally people are drawn

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Speaker 5: to these authoritarian, high control, high demand religion because I mean,

394
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Speaker 5: you guys know, there's something internally. That's like not being

395
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 5: met a need, and people don't know how to source

396
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Speaker 5: that from within, so they're looking for a guidebook. So

397
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Speaker 5: typically people that were joining in were coming from very

398
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Speaker 5: financially irresponsible families, people with a lot of dysfunction, mental illness,

399
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Speaker 5: abusive homes, alcoholics, you know, any addicts. They're just naturally

400
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Speaker 5: kind of flocking to this structure, especially conservative churches, because

401
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 5: they have a guidebook telling you what to where.

402
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Speaker 1: Yeah, here's your framework for a life, totally.

403
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 2: Literally, so it takes all that guessing out of it,

404
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 2: and the responsibility too if things go wrong.

405
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Speaker 3: Right, So, Amish people do not use electricity? What about

406
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 3: Mennonites or like, explain that, because I feel like it's

407
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Speaker 3: going to be a question.

408
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Speaker 2: It's really not black or white, because why make it easy.

409
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Speaker 5: So a lot of Amish do have electricity and phones

410
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Speaker 5: and technology. Not all do, okay, okay, not all Mennonites do, okay, okay.

411
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Speaker 5: So you have some Mennonites that are even more conservative

412
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Speaker 5: than Amish. And interestingly enough like the work that I

413
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Speaker 5: do now because I'm actively working within conservative church churches

414
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Speaker 5: and especially I've been in Ohio for the last two

415
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Speaker 5: and a half years working in Old Order Amish communities,

416
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Speaker 5: and they are all in agreement that I grew up

417
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Speaker 5: more conservative than they are currently as Old Order.

418
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Speaker 1: Interesting.

419
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Speaker 5: Oh wow, yeah, So just because it's Mennonite doesn't mean

420
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Speaker 5: like it's the one hundred calorie pack snack pack of

421
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Speaker 5: the Anabaptists.

422
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Speaker 2: Like it still is in some ways more conservative. Right.

423
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Speaker 3: So I'm picturing like like, oh, there's a revival week,

424
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Speaker 3: We're gonna all play what's the word that I want?

425
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Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie.

426
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's cause playing little House on the Prairie.

427
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, But don't we see that today with the

428
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Speaker 5: childwife movement?

429
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Speaker 1: Certainly?

430
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Speaker 2: Right, right, right, it's the same stuff.

431
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Speaker 5: It's just you're not putting it online for people to,

432
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 5: you know, and promoting it and getting discount codes on

433
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Speaker 5: protein powder.

434
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Speaker 2: Right.

435
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Speaker 4: I saw my mom my whole life and like very

436
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: long dresses, the hair up. We were often mistaken for Mennonites. Actually,

437
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 4: people would think that we were a lot. But I

438
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Speaker 4: can't imagine having a mom who was punk rock, who changed.

439
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, what an arc? What was that evolvement? What

440
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: did it look like?

441
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: It was? It was gradual.

442
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 5: So my mom was always really into vintage clothes from

443
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 5: so she's shot vintage in Hollywood before it was cool.

444
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: The vintage clothing pipeline.

445
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: So she always dressed a little.

446
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 5: She was never in pants ever, but it was always

447
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 5: really cute, like cool things from the fifties, you know, forties, fifties.

448
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 5: So to see her just kind of naturally go into

449
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 5: like wearing jumpers and.

450
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: Things made sense. It wasn't so extreme.

451
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 5: And I think I also have a hard time separating

452
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 5: like my own experience, to think about what it was

453
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 5: like to watch my mom, because I know for me

454
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 5: what was the most difficult was slowly having to lose

455
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 5: my identity at that age by things, you know, so

456
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 5: like my clothes were slowly I was not allowed to

457
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 5: start purchasing pants, and I always hated dresses. I was

458
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 5: such a tomboy, and so it was like the slow

459
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 5: progression of like losing access to TV.

460
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we still really maintained because it was a

461
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: mission church and it was a little bit more liberal

462
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: than the one I ended up in later on. I

463
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: think there was a lot of leniency towards us as

464
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: we were looking at joining into the church. They weren't.

465
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't like we were coming into something established.

466
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 5: Right where I mean the majority of people that were

467
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: attending were not met at night.

468
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: They were interested in joining in, So there was like

469
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 2: not the strictness that you I found later on. Right.

470
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 4: It's always leniency when you're love bombing people, that's it.

471
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

472
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Yeah.

473
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: But then I look back.

474
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 5: I look back with a lot of empathy though, on

475
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 5: the first family that came to California, thinking about how

476
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 5: overwhelming that must have been for them, coming from growing

477
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 5: up in the church and then suddenly having to sell

478
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 5: their dairy, sell everything, and then end up in northern

479
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 5: California with thirty families constantly at their house that are

480
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 5: so dysfunctional, wanting their lives to be fixed by this

481
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 5: one family.

482
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: I mean, the amount of pressure that that must have

483
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: been on them.

484
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 5: It was a lot, because I know some of the

485
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 5: families that were there were really really messed up in

486
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 5: a lot of ways, and they look to the church

487
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 5: to save them in a way, and the church being

488
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: two families.

489
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: Okay, there's a revival week and you're going and your

490
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: parents are like, actually, we like this, Actually, we like

491
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: this so much, we're going to try to start this

492
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 3: church here. So how did that transition happen into like

493
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: we are full time Mennonites, because that's a big leap,

494
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: you know, half.

495
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 1: Time to fall time, part time to fault time. Yeah.

496
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

497
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 5: So that was a course of about three years, I

498
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 5: would say, of gradually kind of becoming more and more established.

499
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 5: But what my parents realized is that they wanted to

500
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 5: go to a more established church. My parents really, in

501
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 5: comparison to a lot of the other families, really had

502
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 5: their shit together. They were financially really smart, they were

503
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 5: pretty level headed with a lot of things. We weren't

504
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 5: meeting a lot from like the Mennonite families to provide support,

505
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,199
Speaker 5: and so I think they realized they wanted to go

506
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 5: to something that kind of met them.

507
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: Where they were at.

508
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 5: So that looked like moving sight unseen to the Midwest,

509
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 5: which was very difficult for me. That's when things started

510
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 5: to get really hard around the time I was fourteen.

511
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: So there's a church directory for all the churches, and

512
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: you can look it up and it will tell you

513
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: all of the members that are in a particular church,

514
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: who the bishop, minister, everything, their children, who they've married,

515
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: and phone numbers. So we began my parents began looking for.

516
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 5: Property that was conducive to all of their goals as

517
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 5: far as home steadying, and they found an area here

518
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 5: and stud Illinois, and it just so happened that there

519
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 5: was an established church with a school, but it was

520
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 5: a more conservative Mennonite church, so it was kind of

521
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 5: like a step up.

522
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: That's not till you're fourteen, though, right.

523
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's a chunk of time where you're living

524
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: a men in Night lifestyle in northern California and it's

525
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 3: not this like super conservative vision yet correct.

526
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like it's like still kind of I

527
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 5: was having fun. I had my girlfriends and we were

528
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 5: riding horses, and I was still being homeschool.

529
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: I didn't go to Menonight school.

530
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: It was menon night Light. Yes, men in light, Men

531
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: and Light. Yeah.

532
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 3: I heard you tell a story on a podcast about

533
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: you coming home and your belongings were gone? Yeah, when

534
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: did that happen? And can you tell us that story?

535
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 5: That's really like when we're starting to move, because they've

536
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 5: made a decision that we're moving, and at that time,

537
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 5: like I was volunteering at a local vet clinic because

538
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 5: I was always very interested in animal science and horses

539
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 5: and I wanted to be a vet. So this is

540
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 5: where things started to kind of rift because I knew

541
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 5: that I wanted to pursue some sort of higher education

542
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 5: that I was not going to.

543
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: Get in the Mennonites at all.

544
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 5: And so around that time when they decided to move,

545
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 5: that's when I was coming came home and you know,

546
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 5: everything's gone pretty much like we don't have a TV anymore,

547
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 5: and we're not listening to musical instruments and we're making

548
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 5: the shift. And then when we moved, that's when everything

549
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 5: was really perched because we were not taking anything with us.

550
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 5: Oh wow, like my grandfather's player piano was and that

551
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: was like my last piece of like connection to what

552
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 5: I wanted. You know, I wanted to learn how to

553
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 5: play the piano and that was taken and that was really,

554
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 5: I think, really hard.

555
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: That's awful.

556
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: I know.

557
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like everything you have an emotional attachment to

558
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: or that it's like part of your identity is just

559
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: like gone.

560
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: It's gone.

561
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: If I would come home from whatever I homeschool were church,

562
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: I guess you don't come home from homeschool.

563
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: From playing with your friends, from beating people at softball.

564
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: And like all my books had been gone as a child,

565
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 4: I would have gone feral insane, like absolutely would never recover.

566
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's the expectation of, like what you do

567
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: with your days? Then?

568
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 5: After that, so the whole focus then shifts to learning

569
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 5: how to be a keeper at home, And that was

570
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 5: always really kind of like there right, the subtleties.

571
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: The difference was is that I never molded into the

572
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: good keeper at home gentle spirit girl, because all I

573
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: wanted to do was be outside.

574
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that was it.

575
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: And so I very much rebelled and was able to

576
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: rebel a little bit with that and still kind of

577
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 5: get away with it and ride. But when we started

578
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 5: packing up to move, I had no choice in the say,

579
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 5: and had a lot of trepidation. I remember, and yet

580
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 5: you're stuck, like when you're fourteen, you can't get out

581
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 5: of that.

582
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: You're just a product.

583
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 5: You just got a it's awful feeling that helpless.

584
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: Up until that point, I feel like it was just

585
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: a gradual well.

586
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 5: We're just not going to turn the TV on or

587
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 5: we're not going to you know, listen to our music anymore.

588
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 5: But the reality really sunk in and there's no coming

589
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 5: back from that too.

590
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: Wow, So you land in this new area, in this

591
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: new church and new menonit. School life state, Yeah, what's

592
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: the new lifestyle then, what's happening every day?

593
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: Well, so at that point we moved in August, two

594
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: weeks before I started meda night school for the very

595
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: first time, which was ninth grade.

596
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm like a seven layer dip of education

597
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: because at this point I've been public school, I've been homeschooled,

598
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 5: and now.

599
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to Mennonite school.

600
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 5: And the adjustment for that is really hard because I'm,

601
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 5: you know, going back into a school setting and all

602
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 5: of this church is established.

603
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: You know, the girls my age, they've all grown up together.

604
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: They've never had somebody come in from the outside like

605
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 5: at their age. They had sent me letters prior to moving,

606
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 5: welcoming me saying they were excited like I had. All

607
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 5: these girls that were reaching out. So that made me

608
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 5: feel a little bit more comfortable, like they'd sent me

609
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 5: photos of what they looked like. And so we moved

610
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: in and I started school two weeks later, and it

611
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: was a really large learning group for me. I was

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 5: the only girl in ninth grade and there were only

613
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: two of us in ninth grade.

614
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Oh oh, who so there's another The boy, Yeah, there's a.

615
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: Boy was not very welcoming and so Medda Night School

616
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: is different where they have the upper graders in one

617
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: classroom together with the lower grade, and then depending on

618
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: the side, sometimes they'll have like the middle grade, like

619
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: sixth and seventh, but this one we had seventh through

620
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: tenth altogether in our classroom. And in Illinois they go

621
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: state by state.

622
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 5: They abide state by state laws as far as the

623
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 5: age of how long they can stay in school. So

624
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 5: in the state of Illinois, it was sixteen or tenth grade.

625
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 5: So that's as high as the school went. Oh wow, Like,

626
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 5: I'll never forget walking into the library. The encyclopedias were

627
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 5: missing pages, they were glued together, they were blacked out

628
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 5: with mark or anything that had to do with science, psychology,

629
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 5: things that I had been raised around. And so it

630
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 5: started right out the gate like feeling very, very, a

631
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 5: lot more serious and a much larger opt in in

632
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 5: order to be here.

633
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: So they wouldn't be a science textbook, So what textbook

634
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: would they be blacking out?

635
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: Even Well, they had the textbooks, but they were from

636
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 5: Roden Staff, remember, so everything was church proved, but it

637
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 5: was the encyclopedia.

638
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 2: Anything that had yes that came from outside information.

639
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: Oh my, imagine being your job to go through an

640
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 4: encyclopedia and blackout that.

641
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: That makes me don't learn that?

642
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, oh my god, you're like, sell, Oh I

643
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 3: see something about molecules, that's the devil.

644
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 2: Yeah crazy.

645
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was hard, Like it was immediately as soon

646
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 5: as we got here. It was a whole different ballgame

647
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 5: of seriousness. I feel like in expectations on me, which

648
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 5: up until that point I had not And that's difficult

649
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 5: to move at that age to begin with, and then

650
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 5: all of a sudden have to be forced into compliance

651
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 5: and changing. We obviously moved into a more conservative church,

652
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 5: so there were rules and it was like I had

653
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 5: to abide by them. It was a really difficult learning curve,

654
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 5: and I was in trouble a lot.

655
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: With the me too.

656
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 3: So you guys are more than me. I was so

657
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: scared of authority, but.

658
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: I was too. What the thing was is like I

659
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 2: didn't know what the authority was innostantly like messing up,

660
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: and then there's all this pressure because you're coming into it.

661
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: It's like the Lord of the flies.

662
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, where you know you or I was a huge

663
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 5: threat because it came from the unknown territory of the world.

664
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: That I will say that there is this stage too

665
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 4: that I've witnessed. Maybe you'll agree, maybe you won't, But

666
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 4: like when a family joins a higher control group, at

667
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 4: first their love bumed right, and then once they do

668
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 4: join it, the expectations on them are suddenly higher than

669
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: other families, and.

670
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: You're required to like extra proove yourself.

671
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 4: So you've gone from like them, being very you know,

672
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 4: oh it's okay if you do that, like your transitioning,

673
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 4: you're learning to like suddenly you're this example to the

674
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: people inside of people from the world joining and you

675
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 4: have to be extraordinary.

676
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: I feel like I saw that even in Mormon Church too.

677
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you thought it was

678
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 4: your experience, but it is.

679
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: And I see that like podcasting too. It's like one

680
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: of the ways that people from the inside of the

681
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: church will try to diminish what my experience was is

682
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: by saying that.

683
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 5: I wasn't born Menonite, so I'm not really Mennonite, and

684
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 5: I didn't experience what it was like to be Menonite.

685
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 2: And I like to remind them that anybody that joins

686
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: into these actually has a much harder life because you

687
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: are always proving your worthiness for citizenship.

688
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 5: It's pretty much, you know, trying to come into a

689
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 5: foreign country and learn the language and learn all of

690
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 5: the nuances of the culture and then having to prove

691
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 5: always that you were worthy of citizenship. So it is

692
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 5: they're even more difficult on people that join in and

693
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 5: the pressure also then if you have parents that haven't

694
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 5: learned how to self regulate, and they're joining into these

695
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 5: cultures anyway, they don't have a cut off switch and

696
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 5: valve of like I don't need to prove myself like

697
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 5: I've done enough, I'm in church compliance.

698
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: There is still a.

699
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 5: Need to feel worthy and approved and needed, and so

700
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 5: that doesn't change when they join into these cultures. What

701
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 5: it does is then it fuels them into going more

702
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 5: and more and more conservative because they're still trying to

703
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 5: earn approval from some sort of authority.

704
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: We've just switched out the parent role to now the

705
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: church being the parent. Right, So it's very common for

706
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: families to stay at a church for a little bit,

707
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: and then they'll go to a more conservative one, and

708
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: then a more conservative one, and before you know it,

709
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: they don't have cars and they don't have paneling on

710
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: the walls. And that's I've just seen that pipeline. It

711
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 2: started with the punk rockers and the pitch.

712
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 4: Just yeah, crazy. Did the Mondon Nights do they live

713
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 4: on compounds? I can't remember, Like the Amash do they

714
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 4: live together or.

715
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: So they don't, but they live close by.

716
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 5: And really from the Homish perspective, it makes sense because

717
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 5: of transportation, right, so they cannot drive cars.

718
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: They can own cars, but they can't drive them. That's

719
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: the loopholes.

720
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 5: So if you have a if you have a child

721
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 5: that doesn't isn't a church member yet, they can drive

722
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 5: you in your family car.

723
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: Oh man, So they will live close.

724
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: By just for the proximity and the ease and then

725
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 5: manna nights. We live around each other, but not necessarily

726
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 5: on accountpound Did your family drive? Yes, we had vehicles

727
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 5: only church approved and church approved colors.

728
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: The colors beige, black. That's like a cool color. I

729
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 3: know I was expecting.

730
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, Yeah, so you can have black,

731
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: navy and some more subdued plain colors.

732
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: You can't show up in a bright yellow now or

733
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: red like.

734
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: God for red.

735
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 5: And you had to have church approved cars in vehicles.

736
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: The tire had to be church approved. You couldn't have

737
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: any chrome. You had to cut off your antenna.

738
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 4: Oh same we If we didn't cut off our antennas,

739
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: the workers would snap it because that's the radio.

740
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: Oh oh my god. Wow.

741
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you don't want people to know that you

742
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 5: could be possibly listening to the radio and that it

743
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 5: would cause somebody to go.

744
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

745
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I forgot about the antennas, you guys, I forgot

746
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: what they what purpose they served?

747
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: Everyone has. So when you're in.

748
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: School, your daily activities or are they just like okay

749
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: and now we're washing the clothes and we're baking the

750
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 3: pies and like what was expected of you?

751
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: No, we actually had curriculum, and in some ways I

752
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: liked it because it's like our math class was. I mean,

753
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: they talk you how to do taxes and balance a checkbook,

754
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 2: and I feel like.

755
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

756
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: Oh there are a lot of great things that you

757
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 2: can learn in the school. But yeah, No, it was very,

758
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 2: very very regulated, regimented.

759
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 5: And we also obviously had to recite Bible versus and

760
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 5: write things.

761
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: So there was the spiritual component as well. But no,

762
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was a very structured school

763
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 2: for sure, and we had recess. We were for a

764
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: time being allowed to play co ed softball. Volleyball, I know,

765
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: it's always volleyball is controversial, you know. Yeah, it's like

766
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: it's I don't know why. It's like the gateway to sinning.

767
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 4: Well, because because they know you're going to head to

768
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 4: the beach someday and do it. They know that that volleyball,

769
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 4: you're going to say I want to play on the

770
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: beach in a swim suit and then somebody's going to

771
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 4: be in my swimming suit. Sure, very common to Roderick

772
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 4: as well. What do we do? They want to play volleyball?

773
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: Okay, so the school is has some some things that

774
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 3: are it's like not, no, I should go to the

775
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: school teach me how to do my tex Yeah I

776
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: need to. But in terms of like the expectation of

777
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 3: you as a teenage girl and what your future is

778
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 3: going to look like, like what is the track that

779
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: you're expected to be on?

780
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 5: Right, So it's it's just very I mean, obviously we're

781
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 5: being trained to be housewives. So like you would look

782
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 5: at your math and it would be like your math

783
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 5: questions were all about like cutting recipes or adding you know,

784
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 5: to different.

785
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: Things which are phenomenal. I still use that today. So

786
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 2: everything was very geared towards like what your career path was,

787
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: and then just making sure that you were like I

788
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: learned how to type.

789
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 5: We had typing class because correspondence within the Mennonite communities

790
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 5: is huge.

791
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: Everybody always is doing letters.

792
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 5: And so when we had art and it wasn't awful,

793
00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 5: like we obviously all cleaned the schoolroom once and the

794
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 5: girls had the job of like cleaning the bathrooms and

795
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 5: the baseboards and everything, and it was very much a

796
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 5: community thing and that was expected and probably it's child labor,

797
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 5: but also that was your skills, right, so you kind

798
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 5: of chipped in as a community and work together to

799
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 5: maintain your environment, which is a big part of the

800
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 5: community still how they are. The thing was is that

801
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 5: there was a lot of discipline that was happening also

802
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 5: in the school, and so there was the basement and

803
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 5: you would hear children being beaten if they were out

804
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 5: of line, and that was hard, and so you just

805
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 5: tried to stay out of the basement and stay in

806
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 5: compliance with what was expected of you.

807
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: What kinds of things would get you sent to the basement.

808
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 2: My brother got in trouble for there was a school

809
00:42:52,360 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: meeting called because he was using slang and he was saying,

810
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 2: you guys seeing the work, guys is so a lot

811
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: of vernacular.

812
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

813
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: If you were not listening to the rules, you just

814
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 2: had to be very very obedient. You could not question anything,

815
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: and you know, no loing obviously or being distracted. But yeah,

816
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: they knew what was expected of them too, so they

817
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: tried to really maintain the discipline in the school that

818
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 2: they would have at home too.

819
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 4: Right were you ever taken to the basement?

820
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: I was not. I was too old for that. But

821
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to come back to school the following year.

822
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so yes I was.

823
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: I was not.

824
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 5: They did not want me to come back. They had

825
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 5: too many problems with me. So I only I finished

826
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 5: my education in ninth grade.

827
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: But that was pretty much it for me.

828
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 3: Wow, what did why? Because you were questioning too much?

829
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: Like why were you not allowed to come back?

830
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah?

831
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: I think so. And I was too too familiar with

832
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 2: the boys. I was too friendly.

833
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: Oh that would be my problem.

834
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 4: I was just going to ask you, and I was like,

835
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 4: because I'm just picturing myself as a fourteen year old

836
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 4: girl and like, were there cute boys here, because that

837
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 4: would have made a different for me.

838
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean what I thought, we're cute.

839
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 5: It's still funny because still to this day, I'm like,

840
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 5: I just like a Mennonite looking guy, and my friends

841
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 5: all was like, really, like, I just love a clean

842
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 5: cut guy that looks a little culty.

843
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I understand, I understand.

844
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 4: Okay, so you're like a little too familiar, like chatty

845
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 4: kathy with them and you're not supposed to.

846
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

847
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

848
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: There were people in my church who thought I was

849
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: a bad influence when I did absolutely nothing wrong ever,

850
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 3: but just because I would like talk to boys too

851
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 3: much and we're cute outfits.

852
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was caught writing notes to boys and it

853
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 5: was but it was like I was fourteen and I

854
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 5: it wasn't anything bad, but it was just like that

855
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 5: was the only way that you communicating. And I'm like,

856
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 5: I wanted to be friends with the boys just as

857
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 5: much as the girls. The boys were more interested in

858
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 5: what I was interested in. I didn't want to talk

859
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 5: about like sewing. I wanted to talk about farming.

860
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: So I was caught writing notes and I wouldn't stop

861
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: writing notes that's iconic.

862
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, you're done learning.

863
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: To many Yeah you could write too, well, absolutely not

864
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: your that's crazy.

865
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: So what did that feel like then? If you're not

866
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: allowed to go back to school?

867
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: I think, like really like there was just a combination

868
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: of a lot going on at that time, because I

869
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 2: had also applied for membership, because the girls were at

870
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 2: that time, and there was there's such a peer pressure

871
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: to you know, at the time when you were wearing

872
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: your hair down and braids. I just wore one braid,

873
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: which was also the rebellious thing, instead of wearing two braids.

874
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: But I wore one braid, and all of a sudden,

875
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: all of your peers at revival so they'll have fall

876
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: revival service. And so the girls were one by one, like.

877
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 5: Starting to wear head coverings because they were standing up

878
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 5: to become Christian and then applying for membership, and so

879
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 5: I succumb to that because you know, what do you do.

880
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 5: I wanted to fit in, I wanted to be accepted,

881
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 5: so I did that as well. And then the amount

882
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 5: of pressure then when you're in instruction class, which is

883
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 5: very similar to Catholicism, where you take instruction class for

884
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 5: a year before you're baptized, and now all of a sudden,

885
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 5: if you're coming into the church, there's even more scrutiny

886
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 5: on you and there's more pressure improving. So I was

887
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 5: just trying to really at that point, from that age on,

888
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 5: to fit in, and the microscope was on me even

889
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 5: more so when I didn't get asked back to school.

890
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 2: There was also other things going on, and it's performance driven.

891
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: You know that it's you. I mean it's not, but

892
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: the church makes it feel like it's you. And so

893
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: you're proving proving that I'm worthy, I'm worthy, I'm.

894
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 5: Worthy, and there's a lot of great area and they'll

895
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 5: move the carrot around quite a bit for you.

896
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: So it's psychological torture.

897
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 5: And then on top of it, then to find out

898
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 5: that you're not allowed to come back to school and

899
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 5: when you're trying to fit in with your peers is mortifying, yeah.

900
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: And very humiliating, which is why they do it.

901
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it was just another form of psychological manipulation

902
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 5: and it really was not great for my mental health.

903
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 5: But then there was this side of like, you know, well,

904
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 5: I guess I'll help my mom and try to become

905
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 5: like the best housewife possible in training.

906
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: So you're still you're still bought in, Like you still

907
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 3: like think this is the correct lifestyle.

908
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, but at this point, like I bought it

909
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 5: hook line and sinker, right, And so it was just

910
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 5: I was literally immersed in it and was trying to

911
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 5: be the best Mennonite possible. There was never any point

912
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 5: where I was like this is blowney, right, And I

913
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 5: have my journals.

914
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: I was so pious, y'all. Like I was so nauseatingly

915
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: Like I have one entry where I was like sitting

916
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 2: in the airport and I was just like these people

917
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: I was praying for them, like my journal, like they

918
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: were you know, these women were working and traveling for work.

919
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: I hoped that God would intervene.

920
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, but a tweet of you and your

921
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: and your own way.

922
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: Yeah care about trying, Yeah.

923
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah I did. I did so Yeah, So I was.

924
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: I was never rebellious in the fact where that's what

925
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 5: was so difficult, where I was like, it wasn't like

926
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 5: I was sticking my feet in the mud and saying

927
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 5: no f this, like and then could get in trouble

928
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: with the ministry.

929
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: I was trying so hard and they were never approving

930
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 2: of money. That sucks, Yeah, it does. It's hard.

931
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 3: Were you sad about like the loss of the dream

932
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 3: of becoming a vet at that point? That wasn't something

933
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: that was on the table for you, right correct.

934
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 5: What I ended up doing was just shifting my focus

935
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 5: so much on becoming the perfect night girl so I.

936
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 2: Would marry well.

937
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 5: So it was like that was my next like goalpost,

938
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 5: and I still really like I. I ended up getting

939
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 5: a horse around the time that I was kicked out

940
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 5: of school, and that was also a source of contention

941
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 5: because the girls didn't have horses, like they were not

942
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 5: allowed to.

943
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: The boys could, but the girls couldn't.

944
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 5: But there was nothing in the standard book that said

945
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 5: that the girls could not have horses. So then it

946
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 5: became this trying to find ways to make me look

947
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 5: like I was defying the standard Book in order to

948
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 5: back up their claims of like why they didn't want

949
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 5: me to have this horse. And that was something that

950
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 5: I did really sink my feet in, and I was like,

951
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 5: I'm not giving up on this, like I can, I

952
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 5: should be able to do this. I bought this with

953
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 5: my own money, like I worked the hard. Let the

954
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 5: horse girl have her horse.

955
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: Ye, let me do it.

956
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: That seems publicly accurate.

957
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: And that's where we leave Part one four today. Come

958
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 3: back next week for part two to hear the rest.

959
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 3: Megan quick questions. So do you think you would join

960
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: the Mennonite I think I said in this.

961
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 4: Interview or maybe it's next weeks that my family was

962
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 4: often mistaken for being Mennonite, and that was one of

963
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 4: my least favorite parts of it was just looking so

964
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 4: different and I really didn't like that. So I think

965
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 4: I would be more susceptible to clults that let you

966
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 4: dress a little bit more under the radar. That's so fair. Yeah,

967
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 4: I just still can never get over it will never

968
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 4: cease to be interesting to me how people go from

969
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 4: counterculture to super conservative religions wild.

970
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 3: Will never not be interesting to me. I mean, it

971
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 3: happens all the time. It's so incredibly common, And every

972
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 3: time I'm like, they went from that to that, as

973
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 3: though it's the first time I've ever heard of that happening.

974
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 4: It just seems so impossible. Well, but people do it

975
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 4: all the time.

976
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: You know.

977
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 4: You get disillusioned and you swing the other way. Yeah,

978
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 4: you shoot for the stars. Sometimes you end up in

979
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 4: a cult. Yeah, shoot for the starshoo, for the stars

980
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 4: and reach. Sometimes you might land among a cult. Put

981
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: it on a shirt. Please put that on a shirt.

982
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 4: We should put that on a shirt. Okay, no one

983
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:21,240
Speaker 4: would wear that shirt.

984
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: No.

985
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening to another episode of

986
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 4: Trust Me. Please raise us five stars if you are

987
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 4: so inclined, and as always, remember to follow your gut,

988
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 4: watch out for red flags, and never ever trust me.

989
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: Bye.

990
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production hosted by me Lola.

991
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: Blanc and me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holley.

992
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

993
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 4: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker

994
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: is Patrick Kuttner.

995
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

996
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Hell, Gareth Georgia

997
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 4: hart Stark and Danielle Kramer.

998
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

999
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust.

1000
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: Me Cult podcast.

1001
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 4: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,

1002
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 4: Shoot us an email at trustmepodat gmail dot com.

1003
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1004
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts