1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Are you needing a save space to learn how you 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: can get your mind right? Tune into Imani's State of Mind, 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: a weekly podcast hosted by psychiatrist and TV personality doctor 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Imani Walker and co host comedian Meg scoop Thomas, two smart, 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: successful women and mothers sharing their personal and professional experiences 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: to help normalize conversations around mental health. 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: This is not. 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: Your average mental health show. Each week they break down 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: what's happening in news, pop culture, and their very own 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: experiences managing mental health. Together, you will laugh, keep it real, 11 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: and create a safe space where everyone can get help 12 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: with their issues. Nothing is off the table. Doctor Emani 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: Walker and Meg Scoop Thomas discuss everything from relationships with yourself, 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: with your spouse, and your parents, to the realities of 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: postpartum depression and anxiety. Do not forget to take a 16 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: deep breath, find your calm, and get into Emani's State 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: of Mind. With new episodes dropping every Friday wherever you 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. The first vote by mail ballots are 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: hitting people's mailboxes and the earliest in person early voting 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: starts this week. Do you know how you're voting? If 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: your answer is, it's September. I haven't thought about it. 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: I'd like, Am I going to go to my Halloween 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: party's dresses? 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 3: Mando? 25 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Am I going to go as a character from Legally Blonde? 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: I haven't decided yet. To get off my back. This 27 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: is the week to get your shit together on both counts, 28 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: both for voting and for your Halloween costume. Voter suppression 29 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: efforts have ramped up following the twenty twenty election, making 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: an even more critical to ensure that every American has 31 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: access to the ballot box. At vote save America, you 32 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: can find the most up to date information on what 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: you need to make sure your vote is counted in 34 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: all fifty states and the District of Columbia give Puerto 35 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: Rico the statehood as well. Use our ballot Ready tool 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: to request your ballot, find out how you can return 37 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: it or get a reminder for when in person early 38 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: voting locations become available in your state. To win in November, 39 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: it's going to take every single one of us making 40 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: our plan to vote, getting involved, and reminding everyone we 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: know to do the same. Once you've made your plan 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: to vote, visit vote Saveamerica dot com slash every last 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: vote to find out what you can do next, including 44 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: donating to the Every Last Vote Fund to directly support 45 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: the work of community organizations, organizers and volunteers in states 46 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: that are actively working to battle disenfranchisement and communities of color, 47 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: including in Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, and more. Warning, this podcast 48 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: contains spoilers for House of the Dragon episode five end, 49 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Rings of Power episodes one through four. We're releasing two 50 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: episodes again this week, so be sure to check out 51 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: both for our full conversation, which contains spoilers. Hello, my 52 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: name is Jason steps you and welcome to x ray 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: Vision the Crooked podcast where we're diving deep your favorite shows, movies, comics, 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: and pop culture. It's another multi episode week. There's so 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: much to talk about, so we're releasing once again two episodes. 56 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: Episode one we'll have our continuing coverage of House of 57 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: the Dragon, including a recap of episode five plus the 58 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: Ask the Master segment, and a discussion of the first 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: half of Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power, and 60 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: our good friend cele brimbur The Episode two will feature 61 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: conversations about She Hulk episode six, plus our interview with 62 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: the awesomely talented showrunner off she Hulk Jessica Goo in 63 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: a discussion of the Disney Plus series and the latest 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: in the Star Wars television offerings and or episodes one 65 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: through three that have been released on Disney Plus. If 66 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: you want to jump around as usual, check out the 67 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: show notes for the time stamps, and of course joining 68 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: us today. First of her name, number one comic book historians, 69 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: straight from the Citadel, Straight from the archive of Marvel 70 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: and DC and Image and all the rest is the 71 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: great Rosie. 72 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: Night, Rosie, how are you. 73 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm happy to be here. I'm ready to 74 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: talk about House of the Dragon. I'm feeling passionate, folks. 75 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: It's wedding season, it's coughing season, it's getting busted in 76 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: the face season, so let's talk about it. House of 77 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: the Dragon Episode five, We Light the Way, Written by 78 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: Charmaine de Grate and directed by Claire Killner. 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: It's a doozy first of all. 80 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: We open in Rinstone in the Veil, where we get 81 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: to meet Lady Rea Roys, who we have to say, 82 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: has been slandered by her of late husband, David Targarian, 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: who is comparing her to farm animals. 84 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 3: Obviously, you shouldn't do that. 85 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: To anyone, but the initial reaction upon meeting rear Roye 86 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: is she seems really cool. 87 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: She's cool, she's a talented rida, she's badass, she has amah, 88 00:04:59,120 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 4: she's a good fight. 89 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: The funniest thing. 90 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 4: Is she also very much looks like Damon's type. Like 91 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 4: that's the irony of it all, is what's going on. 92 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 4: I think it's like it's all about one chaos, two power. 93 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 4: He doesn't like someone telling him what he has to 94 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 4: do or who he's fastatory because the truth, she seems 95 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 4: like a great match and also again very cool. Definitely 96 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 4: going to go down as one of the legendary brief 97 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 4: appearances in Game Thrones history. 98 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: There's a question about lots of questions about the errands, 99 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: about Damon going to the Veil and other things regarding 100 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: this episode, so stay tuned for that. I will say 101 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: it was nice to see this being House Royce. It 102 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: was nice to see the bronze detailing on the armor 103 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: of both Lady Rhea and Sir Gerald. This callback to 104 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: kind of ancient lineage of the Bronze Kings of House Royce, 105 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: so that was really cool to see. What was not 106 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: cool to see was Damon flat out murdering his wife, 107 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: doubt was terrible. 108 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: The worst thing is he murders. 109 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 4: Her in the most cruel way, because he murders her 110 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 4: in a way that essentially can be seen as a 111 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 4: hunting accident, right, which also manages to smear her reputation 112 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 4: as a brilliant hunter and a famed rider. So it's 113 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 4: really bleak on many levels. But it's also so horribly cruel. 114 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: It is cruel, though I. 115 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 4: Will say she does get a very sick burn just 116 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: before she dies. 117 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: She gets a burning and it it's not inaccurate burn, honestly, 118 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: for knowing what we've seen about Damon. 119 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: Oh we've seen it. 120 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen Damon quote not be able to finish. 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 3: And we should also say that man. 122 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: So of course, Fire and Blood and the various novella's 123 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: again are fictional histories written from the perspective of various 124 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,679 Speaker 1: unreliable narrators and Damon. What we know from the histories 125 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: is that Damon does get away with it, because this 126 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: two book readers, I think should have come as a surprise, 127 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: though there are kind of like slightly mysterious undertones about 128 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: the way her death is described in the histories as 129 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: basically you know, a hunting accident. She dies hawking, So 130 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: Damon gets away with it, which sucks. But I would 131 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: also add that part of what makes her death seem 132 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: a bit suspicious to readers is that any death that 133 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: is just like, oh, he got a stomach ache and 134 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: he died, what a terrible accident. 135 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: It was almost natural causes, but probably not. 136 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: Or he died in a fire. 137 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: He died in a hunting accident. We all know what 138 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: that really means. 139 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just primed to look at that 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: with a suspicious eye. 141 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 3: But yeah, again, Damon got away with it, which sucks. 142 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: We go to the Narrow Sea where King Vissarus's flagship 143 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: is sailing to Driftmark, where he's going to kind of 144 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: nail down the marriage deal that would see Raniera Targarian 145 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: betrothed to Sir Layin or Oh, I want to say 146 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: one thing. I want to address this about the pronunciation 147 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: of Lee or Lena versus Lena and Lena as a 148 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: book rereader and a person who's spent many years of 149 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: that portion of being a book reader, not like having 150 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: any interaction with the audiobooks. I just have the pronunciation 151 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: of these really really weird character names. Now, some people 152 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: are gonna say it's phonetical, Okay, set that aside. I'm dumb, though, 153 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: but I just have the pronunciation of these characters in 154 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: my I have said them in my head for many 155 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: a year without ever hearing anybody say them back to 156 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: me or hearing like any kind of like audio content 157 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: that has the correct pronunciation. Another example of this, I 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: think we talked about this previously is the comic book 159 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: artist Bill Sinkevitch, Yes of Marvel Comics and other fame 160 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: for years and years and years because I'd never heard 161 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: anybody say that name. I had read that name as 162 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: Sankowitz and had said so in my head, I use 163 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: Bill Senkowitz, and it was legitimately not until maybe eight 164 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: months ago. 165 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,599 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh shit. 166 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 4: He actually now signs it with like fanaticals to explain it, 167 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 4: because he's a really unique name. 168 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: But yeah, no, no, I feel you. When we know this. 169 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 4: Stuff, we read it in our heads, and then it 170 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 4: takes something like an adaptation or hearing the creat essay 171 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 4: it for us to know the correct invite Comma's way. 172 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: Yes, it absolutely had curdled in my head. You know, 173 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: many of these pronunciations over the years, and so that's 174 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: what that is. I'll say it correctly from now on, 175 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: and I apologize, but like we. 176 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: Were both guilty, but Lena is innocent. 177 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: That's where it comes from. And I imagine I'm not 178 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: alone out there. 179 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 3: Okay. 180 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: We go to King's Landing where Queen Allison says goodbye 181 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: to her good father Otto, who she got fired. Now 182 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: she's the queen and she would like her father not 183 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: to leave, but of course it is the King's decision, 184 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: and Otto very graciously completely blames his daughter for it. 185 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 4: I'm oh, hey, I truly am, Like, he is such 186 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 4: a sucker, he can't Can we just please remember that 187 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 4: she is in this situation because of him, because of 188 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 4: his scheming, and she has been trying to do the 189 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 4: best by everyone, and Alison has just been put in 190 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 4: terrible situation off the terrible situation, and he didn't even 191 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 4: have the grace to be like, it's okay, this is 192 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 4: the game. 193 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: I understand. He was like, you did this, you picked 194 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: your friend over me. 195 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: That's right. 196 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 4: Everything's gonna go to shit now, and you bet get 197 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 4: ready because it's gonna be a problem. 198 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: Alison says, Listen, I believed Rania when she told me 199 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: that she didn't couple with Prince Damon, and also shouldn't 200 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: you have like been a little bit more chill about 201 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: trying to put your grandson, my son Eggon on the throne. 202 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: And Atta was like, listen, the king's gonna die. War 203 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: is coming, Rania is going to kill your kids, which like, 204 00:10:54,960 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: maybe it's not a completely unfounded fear, let's put it 205 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: that way, but also like Alison and Renier should actually 206 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: just talk this. Why are we letting all these interlocutters 207 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: like be in between this thing and and stoke all 208 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: this paranoia. 209 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 4: This episode is like the most painful yelling at the screen. 210 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 4: It really is, Please just have a conversation, because the 211 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 4: truth is the thing that I think is really messed 212 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 4: up in this moment is when I first watched it, 213 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 4: I thought, oh, like in his final moments with her, 214 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: ATTO's actually giving her some good advice. And then when 215 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 4: I rewatched it before the episode, I was like, wait 216 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 4: a minute, is he actually just stoking her worst fear 217 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 4: and playing on her darkest paranoias to cause a problem 218 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 4: When I mean, look, Rinera like everyone in this show 219 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 4: and kind of what makes this show so special. Everyone's 220 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 4: making mistakes, Allison's making mistakes, Raniera's making mistakes. 221 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 3: There's a lot of blind spots here. 222 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 4: Everybody is flawed. But Raniera is not murder a child flawed. 223 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 4: Vaniera is not Damon. Riniera is not murder her best 224 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 4: friend's child flawed. Like there is a conversation that be had. 225 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 4: I mean to not get too into the weeds of 226 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 4: like succession and stuff. Whenever could just have a kid 227 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 4: and marry it to egg On like that, they could 228 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 4: do that, very good plan that they could make, you. 229 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: Know, they could do that. 230 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: Now, I think everybody's blinded by their own personal ambitions. 231 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: And again it's not necessarily unfounded. This is assuming that 232 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: Alison to Rahniera never talk Alison at this point in time, 233 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: and we would imagine going forward, would certainly never leap 234 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: at the opportunity to murder Ranier's children should she have 235 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: children down the line. And Raniera, from what we've seen 236 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: of her, is not the sort to be like, let's 237 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: chop off young egg On's head. Yeah that said, there 238 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: are people around them, Oh definitely, I mean, look at 239 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: auto Otto right now is basically saying like Reniera will 240 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: probably she'll have to kill your children in order to 241 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: seal her authenticity to really shore up her reign. 242 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 4: He was ready to essentially kill Raniera socially and potentially 243 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 4: literally because of this scenario. 244 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: So it's a tragic we are, truly. 245 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 4: The thing I think is most interesting about this show 246 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 4: is the lengthy and kind of drawn out version of 247 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 4: the fall of the Tangarians that we're kind of getting 248 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 4: to see just every single misstep and miscommunication and paranoia. 249 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 4: It's all leading to what we know happens because of 250 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 4: Game of Thrones. But it's so interesting and it's so tragic. 251 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: I was so upset this episode. 252 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: It's tragic. It's so sad. 253 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: It's very sad. 254 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: I mean, we forget that, like Allison and Ranier are 255 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: like fourteen years. 256 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: Old, they are babies. 257 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: Fifteen years old, they're babies. They don't have any idea 258 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: about how any of this shit works. And here is 259 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: Atto saying Rinier's gonna kill your kids in order to 260 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: solidify her group on power, And what is the flip 261 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: side of that? The flip side of that, it's implied, 262 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: it's not directly stated, but it's certainly heavily implied that 263 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 1: Allison should seal herself for that exact action, you might 264 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: have to think about doing that, and auto closes. 265 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: With you're no fool, and yet you have chosen not 266 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: to see it either. 267 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: You prepare it gone to rule, you cleave to renew 268 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: it and preve for mercy. Manrheese Ivens has a way 269 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: of like sounding like he is dredging up like the 270 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: gravel of his soul while he is delivering these lines, 271 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: and then they embrace and auto. 272 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: Leaves Everyone's coming for an Emmy. 273 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 4: Oh big to every episode, I feel like they all 274 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 4: lining it up. I mean, Paddy and Reese in this 275 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 4: episode is just like once again, and I thought in 276 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 4: last episode they sealed it, but this episode is just 277 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 4: so great. 278 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: On Driftmark, Lord Corlis is playing power games. He doesn't 279 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: come out to meet the royal Party, an incredibly egregious 280 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: snub ub that Lord Lionel Strong, the hand of the 281 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: King is fucking furious about. The only one there to 282 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: meet the Royal Party is Sir Laine Or playing at 283 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: swords with his boyfriend, Sir Jeoffrey Launemouth. 284 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: Lady Lena comes out to say. 285 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: Oh, sorry about this, and then when they finally do 286 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: run into Corlis, the King has to meet him in 287 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: the Hall of Nine, where Corlis is ensconced with the 288 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: driftwood throne, surrounded by all his trophies. It's like one 289 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: of it's an ultimate power move to say, King, you 290 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: have to meet me in my trophy room. 291 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: I'm not even gonna come and see you, dick move. 292 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and not just that, it's all so intentional, as 293 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 4: we see. Yeah, when we get back there, Corlis has 294 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 4: plans and designs, though honestly, very relatable and probably good 295 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: plans and designs. 296 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: In the Gods Rebecca King's Landing, we get our first 297 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: real extended taste of what Laris the club foot Strong 298 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: that's what the realm is nicknamed him, not us, has 299 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: in store for us. Over the course of this story, 300 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: he just happens to run into Queen Allison there. 301 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: Whoops. 302 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: He's just hanging out there, casually, hanging out there is 303 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: he always seems to be in the right place. And 304 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: then he's just kind of making small talk and he says, oh, 305 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: it's terrible about your dad. He got fired. And the 306 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: realm is so much weaker now for this. And also, 307 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's like so weird what happened with Brenia. Oh, 308 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: you didn't hear about this? 309 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: Oh she was really sick. Oh something bad must have happened, 310 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: she must have been ill. 311 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: I hope she's okay because I saw Grandmester Mellows dropping 312 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: off some plan tea. What you didn't Oh yeah, and 313 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: hopefully she's all right. For the good of the realm, 314 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: one can only pray for her quick return to health. 315 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: And Alison is clearly shaken by this, as Laris wanted. 316 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: But this is what Laris, I think will do as 317 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: we go forward, just saying we told you keep an 318 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: eye on him. Yes, when he made his little move 319 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: into the tea room. 320 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 4: Of like the highest royal women in the wild, I 321 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 4: was like, oh, I'm two weak to fight. Can I 322 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 4: just sit here and definitely not listen to all your secrets? 323 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 4: This is what his currency is, and he is making 324 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 4: moves as we see in this episode that are. 325 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: Just like bold faced. 326 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm eager to kind of dive into what the fuck 327 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: makes him tick because I think book readers will know 328 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: that the histories often say of Laris that he's an enigma, 329 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: that nobody really knows what his motivations are, and I'm 330 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: eager to see if those are more clear as the 331 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: show progresses, because you know, some of the contexts they've 332 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: been adding has been really amazing, Like you look no 333 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: further than the death of Lady Royce. So I'm eager 334 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: to see if we learn more about what exactly makes lariastick, 335 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: because certainly Lionel, his dad, seems like a good enough guy. 336 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: You know, there's no suggestion that he's been mistreated in 337 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: any way. And then his brother Harwyn, who we meet 338 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: for the first time here in this episode, also seems 339 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: like a solid guy. They're sitting next to each other 340 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: at the at the wedding later in the episode and 341 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: talking amongst themselves, So it's interesting to see, Like why 342 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: did Laris turn out to be such a poisoned figure? 343 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 4: I wonder if there's two things. I think he has 344 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 4: a so far from what we've seen, like a kind 345 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 4: of chaotic street like he enjoys kind of sowing the 346 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 4: seeds of instability. But I wonder if it's also like 347 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 4: softening Game Thrones about one's own station. 348 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 3: I think it's that too. 349 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 4: And like ambition, and maybe he doesn't think hand of 350 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 4: the King is even a good enough place, and he 351 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 4: knows he'll never probably be there because of his disability. 352 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 4: I wonder if they didn't do it, because they do 353 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 4: a really good job of even though with dramatic irony, 354 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 4: we can watch it and be like, Wow, this guy's 355 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: a snake. In those moments, he seems incredibly empathetic and 356 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 4: like he's like giving good advice. I mean even in 357 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 4: the wedding, like we'll get to later when he's talking 358 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 4: to his very chill brother and I'm like, my guy, 359 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 4: I know you're trying to start a war, Like you're 360 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 4: you're just saying these chaotic things. Yeah, right, that could 361 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 4: essentially even like I mean, you just went to Allison 362 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 4: and act like you were a friend, and now you're 363 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 4: saying things that could make her seem to be a traitor. 364 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 2: Like I'm so interested. He's definitely. I think this episode, 365 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: with the introduction of. 366 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 4: Rio Royce Rip Rip Big Rip, and this expansion of Laris, 367 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 4: is like we're getting more to that Game of Thrones 368 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 4: scenario that we talked. 369 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 2: About, like with these exterior. 370 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 4: Characters on different lands and each one having their own 371 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: different agendas and how they play into the main action 372 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 4: of what we're seeing, which I think is really exciting. 373 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: I think you're right on about the way Laris's disability 374 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: frames him for the rest of the realm, because this 375 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: is an intensely patriarchal society, as this whole story is 376 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: about that, and you know, the basis of power in 377 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: this patriarchy is the way that these people perceive manhood. 378 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: And manhood means strength, manhood means you're a great warrior. 379 00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: And Laris would have been roundly dismissed because of his disability, 380 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: I dismissed, you know, almost completely as a man and 381 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: as a human being. Probably if not for the fact 382 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: that he's, you know, related to the son of a 383 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: very important lord. That said, he would have been looked 384 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: at in a way that would have cast him outside 385 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: of regular society. And he would have been aware of that, 386 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: and surely that has not felt good to him. Yeah, 387 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: back in the Hall of nine, Corlis and Visaras, with 388 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: Nice at their side, get to brass tacks about Okay, 389 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: what is this wedding, how would it work? What does 390 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: the wedding mean? So whose name am I to assume? 391 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: Corliss asks hilariously, so cheap, so Ranier, I'll take Lena 392 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: his name, right. 393 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: I mean bernera Valarianka and the kids, what's what's up? 394 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: And the kids will be Valarians. 395 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: And you know, Visaras I think gives him a really 396 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: good deal. Of course, Ranera is going to keep her name, 397 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: like we don't do hyphens in Westras so, so she's 398 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: going to be Reneera and Turgarya don'try. Okay, that's gonna 399 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: say that. But their kids, you know, will turn Valerian 400 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: and certainly upon their ascension to Driftmark, et cetera. And 401 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: this seems like a great deal to them, you know, unless, 402 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: of course, like their child that ascends to the Iron 403 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: throne will be a Targarian, but the children that go 404 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: to Driftmark will be Valarians, and it's a great deal. 405 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: Raniera and Leanor go and take a walk to kind 406 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: of get to know each other, and this is I 407 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: think one of the most important conversations for understanding Raniera, 408 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: who is just a very accepting person. It is of 409 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: course well known, certainly in court circles amongst the noble 410 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: houses of Westros that Lenor is gay. There's no term 411 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: for sexual orientation in this world like that. They would 412 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: just say he prefers men. But it's known and joked about, 413 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, because this is seen as something that's like 414 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: funny and or shameful. But Raniera, to her credit, is 415 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: just like, listen, we understand what this is, like, we 416 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: get it, like, this is a political marriage that our 417 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: families are broken, and for good of the realm to 418 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: shore up the strength of Hou's targarian and bind it 419 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: to their ancient allies, the Valerians. Okay, let's do our 420 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: what we have to do in order to support that. 421 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 2: But outside of that, I'll do my thing, You do 422 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:18,719 Speaker 2: your thing. 423 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: That's fine. 424 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that is a wonderfully modern arrangement. 425 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it, and it fits into the realities 426 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 4: of I think what living in like a court situation 427 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 4: would be like. 428 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 429 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 4: Also, Raniera, learning from the men who came before her, 430 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 4: Why shouldn't these kings are allowed to do whatever they want, 431 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 4: They do whatever they want, have as many bastards as 432 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 4: they want. So why shouldn't she and Lane or create 433 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 4: an arrangement that works for them where they can be fresh, 434 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 4: where they can enjoy the things that they want to enjoy. 435 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 4: And I just think, yeah, it's it's so smart and 436 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 4: generous and clever and a little bit selfish because she 437 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 4: wants that freedom too. But it's really good. And the 438 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 4: scene is so beautifully shot as they walk on the beach, 439 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 4: and it's pretty amazing. Lane Or looks very happy, very 440 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 4: bit like this is kind of more than what he 441 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 4: could have expected, because it's clear that while his mom, 442 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 4: Renie understands that he is gay, his dad is a 443 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: bit more like this is. 444 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: Just what guys do. They're just having fun. Corlos is 445 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 2: just like Bonds. 446 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: Did you sense any chemistry out there on the beach, 447 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: you know? And she has grown comely. 448 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's looking good. I'm sure he's already's looking good. 449 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: And he's like, you know, what are you talking about? 450 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,479 Speaker 1: You know what you're come on, you know what's going on. 451 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: It'll grow out of it. You grow out of it. 452 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: It's like, no, okay, And then you know there's a 453 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: nice conversation between Lenor and Sir Joffrey later where Joffrey 454 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: is like, I've tread this day, but like maybe this 455 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: is for the best. And then you know, they start 456 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: talking faithfully about the rumor that Rania has a secret 457 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: lover and trying to figure out who it is. Yes, 458 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: that's all well and good, and that's natural, that's human 459 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: to wonder that of course it don't do that at 460 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: the wedding. That's all I'm gonna say, don't do that 461 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: at the wedding. 462 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 4: But also as well, like the thing that I think 463 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 4: is so gutting here is like to watch the way 464 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 4: that Jeoffrey, who truly loves Lenor supports this decision and 465 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 4: understands he understands it and sees it as something positive. 466 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 4: And then to compare that to what we're about to 467 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 4: see with the biggest. 468 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 2: Heel on the show. In my opinion, Oh. 469 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 3: I can't wait to get to this guy. 470 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 4: It's really they do great juxtaposition here between what a 471 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 4: real relationship is, what love is, what support is, and 472 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,959 Speaker 4: what we thought could have come out of a relationship 473 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 4: between Kristin and Raniera. 474 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: Let's go to Healtown. So we're back on the King's flagship. 475 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: It's heading from Driftmark back to kings Landing. Now, Kristin 476 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: Cole is Rnier a sworn sword. In addition to being 477 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: a member of the Kings. You can be a sworn sword. 478 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: You can be any knight and swear your sword to somebody, 479 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: as we saw, you know with Brianna of Ptarth Right, 480 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily need to be a member of the 481 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: King's but he's also a member of the King's guard, 482 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: so that he's her bodyguard. That said, they have had 483 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: a sexual relationship, perhaps more than one at this point. 484 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 4: That seems to be the implication here is that something 485 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 4: else has occurred in the time. 486 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 3: It might have continued. 487 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: And I gotta say, if you've got this secret, very 488 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: very dangerous relationship, certainly for Cole who was sworn never 489 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: to have sexual relations father children are get married, et cetera, 490 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: of the penalty for which is very serious. It seems 491 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: to me like a really dumb thing to come out 492 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: in your shirt sleeves, no armor on, like you just 493 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: literally got out of bed in a very casual way 494 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: and then chat with the Princess of the Blood. Like 495 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: on the deck of the royal ship. 496 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: There is a man. 497 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 4: Cleaning the deck behind them when this conversation is going on, 498 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 4: Like he's down on the lower deck, but you can 499 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 4: see him behind them. And the thing that annoys me 500 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 4: about it, But honestly, like I'm now understanding, Kristen is 501 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: a ridiculous man. 502 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 2: So that's the problem. He could have literally just put 503 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: on the armor. She's out there in the middle of 504 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: the night on this look legitimate. 505 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so go out there in the armor to protect her. 506 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 4: But no, he is on one and he's about to make. 507 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: The thing that pains me the most is this conversation 508 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 4: begins like a fairy tale until you realize the real 509 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 4: motivations behind it, which are just so depressing. 510 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: So I will just say of Kristin, clearly he's never 511 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: caught feelings before, right for anyone. And we heard back 512 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: during the episode with the Hunt as they were riding 513 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: through the woods of like, He's not had many relationships, 514 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: certainly not with a woman of the status of Princess 515 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: Raniera ever, and it's clear from the conversation that ensues 516 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: there in the declatarship that Cole is fucking in love 517 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: with Princess Rhneera at this point. 518 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 4: When we recap this section, I have a different reading 519 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: of this. Actually, I think he is, as we later 520 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 4: hear the phantaslastic Game of Thrones term Countstruck. 521 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 2: I do believe. 522 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 4: I do believe that is true, but I believe he 523 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 4: is more invested in his own station and honor than 524 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 4: he actually is with Renewed. 525 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 3: I think that that's right as well. 526 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they can exist alongside, but he obviously 527 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 4: really likes a I mean. 528 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: He then proposes the most insane thing. This is one 529 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: of the funniest, quietly the funniest lines I think ever. 530 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: In House of the Dragon s Lage Game of Thrones History, 531 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: christ and Cole says to Ranira, Hey, I was hanging 532 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: out in Sunspear for a little while, and when I 533 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: was there, I watched them unloading ships. And now I'm 534 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: an expert in ships and travel. I saw them unload 535 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: oranges and spices and cinnamon, and I thought, Hey, where 536 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: does that stuff come from? And now I think what 537 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: makes sense is for me to take you around the 538 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: world because I saw like three or four ships get unloaded. 539 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 2: He is a naive man. What make you talking? 540 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: I think you should bring shame on your name and 541 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: your entire house by running away with me to Esaus. 542 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: Destroy your already very sick father. 543 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I saw like four crates of oranges ones? 544 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: What and so very very rightly, Raniroz like, what, No, 545 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: can't we just like I become queen and we keep 546 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: having a relationship, but we just keep it very quiet, 547 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: like can't we do that? 548 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 2: Not even that? 549 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 4: She's like, I actually went out of my way because 550 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 4: I care about you and enjoy it. I have to 551 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 4: make an arrangement with my future husband, which, by the way, 552 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 4: probably could have got me killed if I'd have read 553 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 4: that situation wrong. Sure, where I said, look, we don't 554 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 4: have a baby, but we can just you know me 555 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 4: and you can do. 556 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: Whatever we want. 557 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 4: There is entire relationships, love stories, families in Game of 558 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 4: Thrones that were born that way. 559 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 2: It is quite normal. 560 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: Cole is not having it, no having it, So Runier 561 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: turns him down and col says, so you want me 562 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: to be your horror after she proposes like why don't 563 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: we just do what we're doing, and he is clearly 564 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: upset about the fact that he broke his vows and 565 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: now sees himself because they're not gonna make it official 566 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: by I guess eloping. He feels like he is a 567 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: whore in his own words, which is ridiculous. We got 568 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: a good thing going here, Chris fiin why are You 569 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: Fucking It Up? Right? 570 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 4: There is like a really brilliant moment in this, and 571 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 4: I think you can really tell that you have like 572 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 4: a female writing team, female director. There's this moment where 573 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 4: he gets in her face and he's like, I broke 574 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 4: my vows for you, and he's like, that's all I 575 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 4: have to my fucking name. And it's like there's so 576 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 4: much anger and he's so stressed and scared and angry 577 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 4: and hateful in that moment that I just think it 578 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 4: really tells you a lot. Like I do feel like 579 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 4: if this actor wasn't so good, this could. 580 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: Feel like a bit too much, like I quickly turn around. 581 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: But there's something in it. 582 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 4: This like naivety, like you said, because she's even says 583 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 4: to him, she's like, well, I'm gonna go and marry 584 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 4: you for like a bushel of oranges. 585 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: She's like, no, like you. 586 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 4: I love the line when she's like I am the crown, 587 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 4: She's like, there's no crown me, there's no wester Ros Like, yeah, 588 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: it's this was such a hard scene for me, and 589 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 4: because it's so sad to me, it's really sad for 590 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 4: an error because she went out of her way to 591 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 4: take this person into her confidence. And also, I will 592 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 4: just say I know that they're not making it very 593 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 4: clear here, but it is obvious that there is quite 594 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 4: a significant age difference between the two of them. 595 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: So I also feel like Kristin Cole. 596 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 4: If we're getting into the weeds of it, you slept 597 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 4: with a child and now you need to just behave yourself. 598 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 4: And like, also everyone knows the war, the Night's guard, 599 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 4: the King's guard, they're always banging, like they all have 600 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 4: sex all the time, Like, don't worry about it, Like 601 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 4: it's okay, we can keep this quiet, Christen call if 602 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 4: you also we can keep this quiet if you don't 603 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 4: walk around like unclothed talking princess casually while the king 604 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 4: and others are below deck, like right. 605 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: Below it, and there is a man cleaning the deck. 606 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: And also, yeah, if you. 607 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 4: Are the Queen's console, essentially, guess what, there's no rules 608 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 4: for you. That's kind of how it is until somebody 609 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 4: else is in power like you are. 610 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: That is a really great deal. 611 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 4: And you know what, I respect anyone's right to say 612 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 4: like that doesn't work for me. 613 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 3: I completely agree. 614 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: You don't have to blow up everyone's whole lives, because 615 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 4: that is what you're about to do, blow up everything. 616 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 3: I completely agree. 617 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: Listen, it's very important to say agency and consent is important. 618 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: If that doesn't work for Christian fair play, okay, we 619 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 1: break it off. 620 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 3: I think it's a great deal. 621 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: Her neighbor would be chill with that too. 622 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: She would just be like, okay, yeah, but like, don't be. 623 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: A dick about it anyway. 624 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 4: He's about to be a top tier legendary Game of 625 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 4: Thrones dick, a. 626 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: Major iconic historic Game of Thrones dick. They get back 627 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: to the Red Keep, King Vissarah's collapses. He was not 628 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: looking well on the trip. 629 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: He has been sick. 630 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: He looks shitty. 631 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: He has either a cold or a flu, and of course, 632 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: as we're going to see, his left arm is in 633 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: a really perilous state. 634 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 4: Looking like leprosy at this point, or something is something 635 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 4: to a leprosy or something. 636 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: He's he's looking very ill and he's hiding it. 637 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 4: But I think part of the reason Corlis, for example, 638 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 4: felt so brave as to really make a lot of 639 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 4: demands rather than just being like, of course, my son 640 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 4: will marry the queen was because Vissara's was coughing, he 641 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 4: was weak, and he felt like he pund secure that 642 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 4: safety for Raniera. 643 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 2: So yeah, he's not looking good. 644 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: The scene on the deck of the ship kind of 645 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: emotionally sets up what follows when Kristin is summoned by 646 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: the Queen. This guy you could tell he's nervous about 647 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: and so Raniera is clearly from her perspective, asking in 648 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: a kind of roundabout way, getting to it about the 649 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: allegations that Allison is kind of like, you know, in 650 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: a roundabout way, getting her courage up to kind of 651 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: ask about the allegations that Raniera slept with Prince Damon. 652 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: And she's kind of getting to the point when Kristen 653 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: Cole absolutely folds the fuck up and is like, yeah, 654 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: I had sex with the princess. Please don't cut my 655 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: dick off and torture me. Just cut my heaf, just 656 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: execute me. 657 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 3: That's it. I want to worry that that's it. And 658 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: the Queen is shocked. 659 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: But feels clearly betrayed, feels lied to her friend, lied 660 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: to her face. 661 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, because she specifically promised that she was still a maiden. 662 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: That's the thing. I think, the Damon thing. 663 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 4: This kind of goes along with what Ranera told you. 664 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 4: That's not who she slept with. She could have come 665 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 4: to Alison in that moment and been at least slightly honest, 666 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 4: though I Wouldna is also probably trying to protect Kristin 667 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 4: Cale ironically, but Kristin folded like this motherfucker holding nitch 668 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 4: so quickly, nitch, nitch, nitch. 669 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: He could have just waited to see what she was gonna. 670 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 1: Say, but no, he just folded the fuck up. And 671 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, I've seen people say, like, why is Alison 672 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: so mad? She has no leg to stand on. She 673 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: had previously been lying about her relationship with King Vissara's 674 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: fair that said one, just because something makes logical sense 675 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it. That's how anyone responds emotionally, Like just 676 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: because I wrung someone first doesn't mean I'm not mad 677 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: when they I feel like they betrayed her. 678 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: She's a child. 679 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 4: But I think the real reason that this is such 680 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 4: a pivotal turning point for her she put her word 681 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 4: against her father's. 682 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,439 Speaker 2: I still think she did the right thing. 683 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 3: I agree she was an incredible friend. 684 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 4: Her in her but I do also believe that if 685 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 4: Rania had been honest to Alison, Alison probably just still 686 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 4: would have lied to the king, but would have found 687 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 4: a way to make it so oh it didn't look 688 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 4: so bad. 689 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 2: I think the problem. 690 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 4: Here is Otto has now been kicked out. She sees 691 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 4: that as her one kind of true ally that she had, 692 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 4: even though I wouldn't agree with that, and now that 693 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 4: is what she's mad about. Is I vouched for you, 694 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 4: you lied. Now my dad's gone, and now there's this 695 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 4: weird crying king's God, yeah in my room, like telling 696 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 4: me some traitorist business. 697 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: I think there's several things, and I think you're exactly right. 698 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: I think there's also the fact that Alison feels trapped 699 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: by this relationship she has with Visarah's a much older man. She, 700 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: in her mind, is doing everything by the book that 701 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: has been set out for her. She's doing her duty, 702 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: she's producing the air. She's sleeping with this older man. 703 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: She's trying to comport herself in a queenly royal faction 704 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: that everybody can be proud of. 705 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 2: And she's not having any fucking fun. 706 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, here's Rania, the crown princess, who's always complaining who 707 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: should be doing, knowing what she exactly what Allison is doing, 708 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: and yet is always complaining about, oh my god, I 709 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: have to meet all these men who want to marry me. 710 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 2: You're young and not rotting to death? Who are young 711 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 2: and not rotting to death? 712 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: And then when her friend asks her, okay, so did 713 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: this happen lies to her face about it, and then 714 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: it turns out has been sleeping with one of the 715 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: knights of the King's Guard, who, by the way, are 716 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: supposed to protect me too. Can I trust them? 717 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 2: And also, who oh, that's. 718 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 4: A really good point actually about Yeah, doesn't this exactly. 719 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: I never realized this right until we had this conversation. 720 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 4: Doesn't that exactly play into Otto's paranoia. 721 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 3: Play exactly the thing? Yeah? 722 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 4: And also I think the other thing that I really 723 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 4: love about this moment is like I'm sure that in 724 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 4: Allison's head because she is as like smart as fuck, 725 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 4: she is also like you slept with one who would 726 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 4: just come in here and tell me that, Like she 727 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 4: literally gives him. 728 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're sloppy. That on top of everything else, you're messy. 729 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 4: She's like I even said to him, like you are 730 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 4: loyal to her understandably, Like she almost gave him a 731 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 4: get out to not really tell her or anything and 732 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 4: just claim loyalty. 733 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 2: And it does. It really made. 734 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 4: Me miss some of those really loyal night Kings God 735 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 4: or just general relationships from Game of Thrones where you 736 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 4: just know they would have rather like had every single 737 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 4: finger chopped off than snitch on the person that they love, 738 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 4: and this motherfucker's just like I did, and she doesn't 739 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 4: love me. 740 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,479 Speaker 1: So Allison generously dismisses Kristen Cole. Yes, she's like, bye, 741 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: see you later. It's wedding time. We go to the 742 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: King's chambers and he's not doing great. He's clearly in 743 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: a bad emotional state as well, because he's sick, his 744 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: arm is falling off. He's with Lord Strong, who is 745 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: looking on with a lot of concern about the perilous 746 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: health state of the king, and Visarah's clearly emotional, is like, Hey, 747 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 1: I kind of I wish I had been a great warrior. 748 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 3: I think I could have been a great warrior. 749 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: I wish I had been tested right, And then Lionel 750 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: Strong and this show's actually why he is the right 751 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: advisor for Visarus doesn't say, as Viceus knows, many would 752 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: have said, oh, you would have been a match for 753 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: egg On the conquer himself. He says, why would you 754 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: want to be tested in war? Many who have been 755 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: tested only wish that it had never happened. And though 756 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: Visus is actually wounded by the fact that like he 757 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: didn't give him that kind of ego, booster saying you 758 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: would have been a great warrior. He also acknowledges you 759 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: told me the truth and that's great. 760 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: Okay, I have two questions I need to ask you 761 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 2: that as the mace the right. 762 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 4: So, yeah, is grand Mace de Melos turns down two 763 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 4: herbal poultices that one of the other. 764 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 3: Goes for the leeches. 765 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 4: That seem like it could become prominent to me, Like, 766 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 4: is Melos not trying to save him? 767 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 2: Is he just stuck in the old ways? Well, we see. 768 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 4: I think it was like, all when will that become 769 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 4: a new mas? I thought that was really interesting moment. 770 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: I think Melos is doing his best, but you know, 771 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: medical care is just extremely limited. 772 00:38:58,760 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: That's it. 773 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: Like they're knowledge of the human body, of epidemiology of 774 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: bacterial infection, like they don't know anything. They've probably got, 775 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, they've got like the poltice or the leeches. 776 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: It's not like they've got a tremendous amount of like 777 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: different remedies. 778 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's just his way. The other 779 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 4: thing I would say that I thought was interesting that 780 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 4: wanted to get your take on, is that before we've 781 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 4: seen Allison and she's called and she has to sleep 782 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 4: with the king when he's really gross. Strong does her 783 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 4: a real solid here where he says she's otherwise engaged, 784 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 4: and then gives him a sleeping draft. 785 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 2: And then we see this Strong suns later at the 786 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 2: wedding seemingly lean towards Allison's side. So are we seeing 787 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 2: some kind of allegiance here or is it just kindness 788 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 2: from Strong? Because I think that's a really kind thing 789 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 2: to do. 790 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: I think it was partially a kindness, and I also 791 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: think it was Strong doing the thing that Kristen Cole 792 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: should do, which is being like, here's a topic that's 793 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: none of my business, so it's none of my business. 794 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: I don't know what the Queen's up to. That's none 795 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: of my business. I'm involved in that. 796 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know where she is. 797 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm not. My job is not to follow the queen round. 798 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: And I think very wisely and generously to Alison, just 799 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: just like I don't know where she is to sleep. 800 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. We go to the wedding, which, as. 801 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: We know, are always happy, mainly executed, wonder full affairs. 802 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 3: In west Roth. 803 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: We're near e Lenor, streaked towards the capitol on their dragons. 804 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,720 Speaker 1: Their fleet is coming in. And then you know Harold Westerling, 805 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: lord Commander the King's Guard, who I think got this 806 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: job because he's got the best voice booming basso Scottish 807 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: inflected brogue is like introducing everyone. We meet Jason Lanister again, 808 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: the Lord of Casick Rock, who makes the tremendous decision 809 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: to go to the High Table and make like a 810 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: women be shopping joke, essentially like. 811 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so bad. 812 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: You don't We're like, oh, well, women can't go to 813 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: war because the girl is getting dressed. 814 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: Ah, it's like they're gonna be late. And it's just 815 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 2: like he is the worst. 816 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 4: And I love this is The chemistry between Paddy and 817 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 4: Millie is so great because Patty just knows really good, 818 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 4: like Vasius knows his daughter. And the little look they 819 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 4: give to each other when he walks away and. 820 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 3: He's just like the little eye roll and look, it's. 821 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 4: That acknowledgment of like, you were right, you could never 822 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 4: have married that fucking idiot. 823 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry man, And it was yeah, you're. 824 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: Right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I proposed him. Yeah, 825 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,280 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. What was I thinking? 826 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 3: At one point? 827 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: Gerald Royce comes up and is cutting off the high towers, 828 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: which I think is a tremendous breach of etiquette. And 829 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: it's about certainly like about to I think, raise the 830 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: issue of the late Lady Rhea. When all of a 831 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: sudden these trumpets blair and incomes House Valarian and now 832 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: the King's going to make his speech. He's in the 833 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: midst of his speech when in walks Queen als and 834 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: Don Don and she's wearing this dress of startling green. 835 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: Laris the club Foot leans over to his brother Harwin. 836 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: Everybody's on their feet now, and he says, well, first 837 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: of all, Harwin's like, King's not going to be happy 838 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: about that, right, that's his wife just arrives in the 839 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: middle of the speech, you know, I just like started 840 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 1: speech again. And then Laris, perhaps noting, you know, showing 841 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: that he is the smarter one of the two, able 842 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 1: to read the emotional and subtextual cues of what's going 843 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: on here, says, hey, you know what the color of 844 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: the high tower beacon is when they're calling their Banish war. 845 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 3: It is green. 846 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: So clearly here is Allison, I think, feeling her most isolated, 847 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: her most betrayed, her most scared, Otto is gone and 848 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: she's putting up the flag and saying, Okay, my family 849 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: rallied to me. I need backup there this I'm calling you. 850 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: I need you very badass moment. The wedding goes kind 851 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: of pretty okay. Damon, you know, watches all of the 852 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,839 Speaker 1: stuff happening. He kind of is watching Hni a dance 853 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: with Lenor with something like jealousy or longing. There's some 854 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: kind of charged, you know, feeling there. Kristen Cole is 855 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: like on the side of the Paul fuming Queen Allison. 856 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 2: Being so obvious. Once again, this man's never been subtle 857 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 2: in his life. 858 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: Being an absolute fucking dick. And then Lord Gerald comes 859 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: up and he's like, hey, Damon, you killed a lady rid, 860 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: didn't you. Damon's like wait, wait, who are you. He's like, 861 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm Gerald Royce and first of all wild that no 862 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: one goes, hey, well, let's handle this during office hours now. 863 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 4: The King and Lord Strong are both looking on like 864 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 4: he probably did this. 865 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: Like they're like, uh, I mean this is like to 866 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,919 Speaker 1: be fair, there's no way. This is the first time 867 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: that thought has occurred to anybody here. 868 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 3: You no, earl, You're right. 869 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 2: We didn't touch on it because it's so brief. 870 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 4: But like when Vassiris finds out from Carlis, he definitely 871 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,879 Speaker 4: has a moment of like, but wasn't she a good hunter? 872 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 2: Why would that happen? 873 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 4: So I love that because Lord Strong's just like, oh, 874 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 4: what have I gotten myself into with this murder family? 875 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 3: Yes, putting out more fires here? 876 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: Damon denies it and then says, and by the way, 877 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: I'll be flying to the veil soon to talk to 878 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,439 Speaker 1: Lady Aaron to petition, you know, for my right as 879 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: the husband of the late Ria Royce, who was the 880 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: heir to Runstone, wonderful and ancient castle of Roomstone, the 881 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 1: jewel in the eye of the ancient house Royce. That's 882 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: mine now because she died and I was her husband, 883 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,240 Speaker 1: So I'll be going to get that for myself. During 884 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: the festivities, Damon steals a dance with Lena Leanne Or 885 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: again tremendously unwisely, is talking to Sir Jeoffrey at the 886 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: let's not do this now but whatever. Joth then tells 887 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: Lane Or Hey, I figured it out, the secret lover, 888 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,359 Speaker 1: it's Sir Kristen Cole, at which point they should have gone, oh, 889 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Okay, good glad, we know that we'll deal 890 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 1: with that enough. 891 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 3: That's it. 892 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll deal with that some other time. But Jeoffrey, 893 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, harbinger of a fatal beating to come, insists 894 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: not to put it, not to make it his fault. 895 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 1: But he and he's like, actually this is great because look, 896 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: she knows something about you and you know something about her, 897 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: and so now there's some reciprocity to this kind of 898 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: leverage relationship that you have. 899 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,879 Speaker 2: He is someone who understands how to play the game. 900 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 4: I will say that, like he understands the way these 901 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 4: things usually happen. 902 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 2: The problem is he could see that Kristen Cole was 903 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 2: so pressed that he was literally stewing publicly in the 904 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 2: side of the wedding. 905 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 4: I would say, probably not the best time to approach him, 906 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 4: and kind of like half threaten him, half off of him, 907 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 4: like a weird lot allegiance. 908 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: It was a bad time, the timing. It's the right 909 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 1: idea at the wrong time. Yeah, and it's absolutely the 910 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: wrong time. There's more dancing. Damon breaks into dance with Raniera. 911 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: They have a little argument of high valarian. Damon is 912 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: like Leanor's boring man. You need an exciting guy, and 913 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: Raniera is like, yeah, but this is like the political marriage, 914 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: Like are you talking about like, you fucking moron. Damon 915 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: then makes his feelings plan. He's like, what about us? 916 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: Are we gonna give us a chance? What are we 917 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: gonna do? And she's like, okay, then do it. I 918 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 1: call your bluff right now, I'm here, you're here, let's 919 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: do something. Meanwhile, Visara's is watching all of this. 920 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 4: He is getting so mad because he's starting to understandmounting alarm. 921 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, when all of a sudden there's a scream and 922 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: there's a crush of bodies, chaos. There's some kind of 923 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: thing happening in the back of the hall, and what 924 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: is it is Sir Kristen Cole beating Sir Jeoffrey's facin. 925 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: Leanne Or is thrown down, Raniera is thrown to the side. 926 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 3: The King's guard well like. 927 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: Aside from the fact that the King's aure is actively 928 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: involved in this, where is the rest of the King's guard? 929 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 3: Unclear? Where's the rest of the guards of the castle? Unclear? 930 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: Lionel Strong looks over at his son, Sir Harwin Breakbones, 931 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,919 Speaker 1: so named because he is everybody says, the strongest knight 932 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: in the realm, the strongest guy in the realm. 933 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:20,399 Speaker 2: He goes through. Nobody has absolutely jugging. Dude's bouncing off him. 934 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,399 Speaker 1: He's like elbowing people in the face. They're flying out 935 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: of frame. He cuts all the way through this scrum, 936 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: picks up Arniera, throws her over his shoulder, and. 937 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 3: Gets out of there. 938 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: And then as everything kind of clears out, we see 939 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: what's happening. Cole is on top of Jeoffrey's beating his 940 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: face in and eventually has murdered him in a disgusting 941 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 1: like pool of blood. 942 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 2: Homophobic hate crime. 943 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: Absolute hate crime. What was said between the two unknown, 944 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,280 Speaker 1: but probably some sort of blackmail attempt. 945 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,839 Speaker 4: You know what I think, I actually think Kristin is 946 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 4: so scared now that is not going to marry him. 947 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 4: He's so scared of losing his honor, of being kicked 948 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 4: out of the King's God, of muddying his white cloak 949 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 4: and what it means for him and his family and 950 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 4: blah blah blah. 951 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 2: I think he just probably did it. 952 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 4: Is that this is somebody who knows he doesn't know 953 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,959 Speaker 4: that lenor knows you know, he knows that Jeoffrey knows, 954 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,280 Speaker 4: and now he killed Geoffrey and Jeoffrey doesn't know. But also, 955 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 4: how did he get away with that because he just 956 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 4: killed the lord in the middle of his wedding. 957 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: Well, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that next episode. 958 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: Should he Indean have gotten away with that? Well, I 959 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,879 Speaker 1: will say that I think you're right in the sense 960 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,360 Speaker 1: that I don't think there's any rational. 961 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 3: Thoughts going through Chrysole's mind. 962 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,920 Speaker 1: That said, I could also see a pure fear response 963 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: right where he's already feeling pressed because he broke his 964 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,959 Speaker 1: vows for the princess and now here is the princess's 965 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: betrothed boyfriend who is threatening him, perhaps on behalf. 966 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 2: Of the princess, perhaps like he doesn't. 967 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,440 Speaker 1: Know where this is coming from, so he just reacts 968 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,160 Speaker 1: with a pure fight or flight response in its absolute fight. 969 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 4: This is definitely a paranoia. Vissia's is paranoid, Allison's paranoid. 970 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 4: Reneera the only one who's not really paranoid. 971 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 2: She's like, everything's going great, Yeah, this is going great. 972 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 2: But you know that that obviously changes. 973 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 4: I think as we you know, with Geoffrey is dead sadly, 974 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 4: and we see Lena mourning him publicly in the middle 975 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 4: of the very very sad and then the last scene 976 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 4: is like one of the most heartbreaking scenes that I've 977 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 4: seen in a long time, when, yeah. 978 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 3: They clear the hall in order to they move the 979 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 3: wedding up. 980 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: There's supposed to be you know, several days of tournaments 981 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: and feasting and stuff. 982 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,560 Speaker 2: It's just unstateable they have to do. 983 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,839 Speaker 1: They're like, this is too crazy. We can't wait six 984 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,839 Speaker 1: seven days. Who knows what's going to happen next. Let's 985 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,839 Speaker 1: just do this now. They clear the hall, Sir Jeoffrey's 986 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,439 Speaker 1: blood is they couldn't even get like someone in there 987 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: to wipe the blood up. 988 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 3: The blood is still on the ground. 989 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: And Raniera and Lenor are married, and as they are wedding, 990 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,920 Speaker 1: King Visas lapses from whatever illness and what are various 991 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,480 Speaker 1: maladies he is dealing with, and Ranier. 992 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 4: Is just looking in Lena's eyes and she is so 993 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,680 Speaker 4: sorry and just broken by this kind of this actually 994 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 4: feels like one of those moments. I'm not a fan 995 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 4: of this because I don't love to punish people for 996 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:22,399 Speaker 4: sexuality or having a life that goes against what people 997 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,719 Speaker 4: say it's supposed to be. But it definitely feels like 998 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 4: she's having that moment of look what I've fucking done. 999 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel yeah. 1000 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,560 Speaker 2: Like I fucked around and now I'm finding out. 1001 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,360 Speaker 4: And the worst thing is, I thought I was setting 1002 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 4: us up to have this brilliant life where we could 1003 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,239 Speaker 4: be friends, and now I'm going to be married to 1004 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 4: a man who's gonna hate me. 1005 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: We were gonna have our cake and eat it too, essentially, 1006 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: and now look at this and Lenor looks absolutely devastated, 1007 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: like hollowed out, it's you know, shattered. Meanwhile, in the gods, 1008 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 1: would Christian Cole somehow, some way avoided getting thrown in 1009 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:57,919 Speaker 1: the black cells they. 1010 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 4: Love going to the God's word as well, those motherfuckers 1011 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,239 Speaker 4: that like every day everyone's going. 1012 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: You'd think that Lord Corlis would be like one of 1013 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: my guys, go go kill him, go seize him, you know, 1014 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,920 Speaker 1: whether the King decides to do it or not, like, 1015 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 1: go get that guy. But somehow Cole gets outside, gets 1016 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: to the God's wood. It's very clear he's about to 1017 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: take his own life because he's thinking, well, I've just 1018 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: murdered a night in the middle of the royal wedding. 1019 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: Everybody saw me do it. On top of that I 1020 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: broke my vows. It's only a matter of time before 1021 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: the headsman's axes descending on my neck. I men as 1022 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: well just do it first. But then the Queen finds 1023 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,240 Speaker 1: him and stops him. And it's clear by the way 1024 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,400 Speaker 1: they're looking at each other that they're they're each the 1025 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 1: thing that the other person feels like they need in 1026 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,520 Speaker 1: that moment, someone who will protect and safeguard the secrets 1027 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 1: of the other. 1028 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,720 Speaker 4: Very ironic because that is what Kristin could have gotten 1029 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,240 Speaker 4: from Ranera had she become queen and this hadn't happened. 1030 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 4: But yeah, that is very interesting to me. The Allison 1031 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:03,760 Speaker 4: Kristin Allegiance This Space for what happens next a really 1032 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 4: wonderful episode, and I love the way they kind of 1033 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,880 Speaker 4: subverted the expectations of what would happen at a Westros's 1034 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 4: wedding also and changed the books a little bit because 1035 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,000 Speaker 4: in the books, Kristin Cole kills Sir Jeoffrey at a tournament. 1036 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 3: There's a tournament before. 1037 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: They see acceptable, Yeah, and which would be fine, like 1038 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,000 Speaker 1: everybody would just be like, that's not a big deal. 1039 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: That's he actually like Maimes breakbones. During one part of 1040 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: the tournament and everybody started calling him broken bones, which 1041 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: is really funny and then hilarious, harsh, but hilarious. And 1042 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,840 Speaker 1: then he kills Sergoffrey. This is during a tournament, but 1043 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:41,360 Speaker 1: they change it for this, and I think it works 1044 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,240 Speaker 1: and certainly makes it more, you know, makes the stain 1045 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,839 Speaker 1: of bad blood a lot brighter and a lot stronger. 1046 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:49,480 Speaker 2: And also I. 1047 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:56,160 Speaker 4: Think it sets up a really good antagonism between Venera 1048 00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 4: and Coal, because the truth is Coal has just absolute 1049 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,400 Speaker 4: blown up her life. Yeah, because that is her paramore 1050 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 4: who just killed her fiance's boyfriend. So now he has 1051 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,440 Speaker 4: established what could be a life of just absolute horror 1052 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,520 Speaker 4: for her living with Leanne or having to have this 1053 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,480 Speaker 4: terrible life, And in that way, it's it's such a 1054 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 4: smart but. 1055 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 2: Like cruel choice. 1056 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 3: I agree with you. 1057 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: Rosie is really effective at setting up without saying anything, 1058 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: without riting the emotional Kristen Cole's kind of like emotional 1059 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: context going forward, and certainly the relationship between himself and 1060 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,840 Speaker 1: Queen Alison too. I think, listen, if we see Kristin 1061 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:43,359 Speaker 1: Cole again not as a headless, dickless corpse, it will 1062 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,399 Speaker 1: be in large part because of the protection afforded him 1063 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 1: by Queen Allison and that's a big deal. Okay, up 1064 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 1: next more House of the Dragon and ask the Master. 1065 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 1: A whole new batch of progressive merch just dropped at 1066 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,360 Speaker 1: the Crooked Store with teas, hats and bumper stickers that 1067 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,400 Speaker 1: are all about demanding reproductive justice, canceling student debt, and 1068 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,320 Speaker 1: making our democracy work. You can show where you stand 1069 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: even while you sit in traffic. Head to the Cricket 1070 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,360 Speaker 1: Store and pick out something to wear to the voting 1071 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,359 Speaker 1: booth or just during your morning coffee run. You guys 1072 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 1: know how t shirts where you wear them anywhere. Check 1073 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 1: it out at cricket dot com slash store. Dragons have 1074 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,319 Speaker 1: arrived on HBO Max. Have you been aware of this? 1075 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: Did you know that this is the case? Episode five? 1076 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,960 Speaker 1: Now gone by The new HBO original series. House of 1077 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,920 Speaker 1: the Dragon is a prequel set two hundred years before 1078 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,720 Speaker 1: the events of Game of Thrones. House of the Dragon 1079 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: tells the story of House Targarian, locked in an epic 1080 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: battle for the Iron Throne and power over. 1081 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,000 Speaker 3: The Seven Kingdoms. 1082 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,040 Speaker 1: The epic series promises more drama and betrayal than ever. 1083 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: Listen to the official Game of Thrones podcast House of 1084 00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: the Dragon on HBO, Max, the iHeartRadio app or wherever 1085 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and to celebrate, we're bringing back 1086 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,360 Speaker 1: Ask the Master to answer your questions. 1087 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,759 Speaker 4: Question number one this week comes from John. Why did 1088 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 4: Damon marry Ria Royce? The Voices are not a particularly 1089 00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,359 Speaker 4: powerful house and are not the lords of the Veil. 1090 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,360 Speaker 4: What political benefit was gained from this marriage? As we 1091 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 4: march towards the dance, it seems war could have been 1092 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,480 Speaker 4: avoided if Damon and Venera wed. 1093 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,000 Speaker 1: I think you're right. But the thing to understand about 1094 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,040 Speaker 1: this is it wasn't Damon's choice. That's why he's so 1095 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 1: mad about it. And of course he's a generally unreliable, 1096 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: just chaotic, joker fied human being, but it was not 1097 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,120 Speaker 1: his choice to make. Damon and Viceras are the sons 1098 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: of Prince Baylon the Brave, who was the fourth son 1099 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,560 Speaker 1: of King Jaharis and Good Queen Alison. Now, until Blon's 1100 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,160 Speaker 1: tragic death, which I'll get to in a second, he 1101 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,080 Speaker 1: was immensely popular as the heir apparent. Everybody agreed that 1102 00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,799 Speaker 1: this is a great choice, and Jeharris was happy with 1103 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: it as well, and so the betrothals of Bailon's children 1104 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: would have been important vehicles of state craft and would 1105 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,959 Speaker 1: have been set up and decided by Jaharris, with significant 1106 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: input from Alisan, who was as often Jeharris's partner in this, 1107 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,239 Speaker 1: and certainly Prince Bailon would have had a say as well. 1108 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,759 Speaker 2: Visaras was sixteen years old. 1109 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,840 Speaker 1: Now understanding that the show has fudged with ages and 1110 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,759 Speaker 1: years a little bit. In the books, Visaras was sixteen 1111 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,799 Speaker 1: when in the year ninety three he was wedded to 1112 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,240 Speaker 1: the eleven year old Emma Aaron, herself a half Tegarian 1113 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 1: on her mother's side. The books helpfully point out that 1114 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 1: the union was not consummated for another two years when 1115 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,800 Speaker 1: Emma was thirteen. So no problem, Wow, no problem, that 1116 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,439 Speaker 1: was a good choice. Oh yeah, so good, Oh good, 1117 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 1: All is all better than and Damon, when he was 1118 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:03,279 Speaker 1: betrothed four years later in ninety seven, was sixteen years 1119 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,359 Speaker 1: old when he wed Rhea, And we don't know her 1120 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,799 Speaker 1: age at that time, and we certainly don't know how 1121 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,640 Speaker 1: old she was when she was murdered by Damon. So 1122 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,280 Speaker 1: as for Ranira, the show is fudged with the timelines, 1123 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,760 Speaker 1: but according to the books, she was born the same 1124 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 1: exact year that Damon and Ria were married in ninety seven, 1125 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: so that wasn't really an option unless they were going 1126 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,240 Speaker 1: to put a future hold on it, which again didn't 1127 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,360 Speaker 1: seem necessary at that time. It's important to understand that 1128 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 1: though King Jaharis and Queen Alisan were clearly aged coming 1129 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,240 Speaker 1: to the ends of their natural lives and certainly their reigns, 1130 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: the succession looked pretty solid at that time. Yes, the 1131 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 1: heir before Baylon Prince Amen, who again solid choice everybody 1132 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: thought was a pretty good choice as well. He was 1133 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: killed tragically fighting pirates on Tarth. He was hit by 1134 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: an arrow that was intended for another guy. 1135 00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 2: But when Bayalen became. 1136 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: The next up, everybody was like, this is great. He 1137 00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,320 Speaker 1: was a dragon writer, having claimed none other than Vagar. 1138 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: He was extremely courageous. He earned the sobriquet the Brave 1139 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: because he playfully punched Baleria in the black dread in 1140 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: the nose when he was like a child, and he 1141 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,680 Speaker 1: was a great warrior. Was knighted at sixteen. He by 1142 00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: all accounts, acquitted himself quite well in the defense of 1143 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 1: the Dornish Marches when he was twenty three, fighting there 1144 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,800 Speaker 1: repelling Dornish raiders from the storm lands, and he was 1145 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,080 Speaker 1: close with his family. His older siblings as well loved him, 1146 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: Aiming and Deanaris, and by the way, Alison thought Deanaris 1147 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,920 Speaker 1: actually the oldest of Jaharis and Alison's children. Alison like 1148 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:46,360 Speaker 1: significantly lobbied for Deanaris to be queen. It's like, she's 1149 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 1: our oldest, why shouldn't she be queen? Jeharris ignored this, 1150 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,000 Speaker 1: and most of the realm did too, but Alison argued 1151 00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,040 Speaker 1: for it. And then Baylon was wedded to his sister Alissa, 1152 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: who gave birth to their children of Visarus and Damon, 1153 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: so it looked rock solid at that particular time. The 1154 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: nobles respected and the people loved him, and his family 1155 00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,040 Speaker 1: loved him, so it seemed like Baylon was gonna be 1156 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,200 Speaker 1: king and everything was great. And then he got a 1157 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,200 Speaker 1: quote stitch in his side and then had what they're 1158 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: calling a burst. 1159 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,080 Speaker 3: Belly was poisoned. What happened was this truly just like. 1160 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,840 Speaker 2: An appendix breaking or something. 1161 00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,880 Speaker 1: Stomach ache gone bad. And then he died a appendix breaking, Yeah, 1162 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,400 Speaker 1: we don't know, but he died of seemingly natural, some 1163 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 1: kind of natural malady, some kind of illness in one 1164 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:39,520 Speaker 1: oh one, and that was basically the thing that set 1165 00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,560 Speaker 1: off the crisis that is now reaching its full measure 1166 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,000 Speaker 1: with the story we're watching now one on one, of course, 1167 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: being the same year that they would eventually call the 1168 00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,840 Speaker 1: Great Council to figure out. Okay, now who who is 1169 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: actually going to succeed. 1170 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,800 Speaker 2: Old King to Harris? Now that Baylon is off the. 1171 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 4: Board, Jonathan comes with another good marriage question. I like 1172 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,280 Speaker 4: the themes hip. This is a different Jonathan, different Jonathan. 1173 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,640 Speaker 4: We got John Yeah with the first marriage question, Jonathan 1174 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,240 Speaker 4: with the second marriage question. And I really liked some 1175 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,760 Speaker 4: one that mays depict some good questions. 1176 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 3: I like it too. 1177 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 2: It's a good one with the appearance of Rea Royce 1178 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,560 Speaker 2: on the show and the extensive discussion of political marriages. 1179 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,600 Speaker 4: How was it that both Visas and Damon were matched 1180 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,800 Speaker 4: with brides from the Veil? This seems like a concentration 1181 01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,240 Speaker 4: of Targarian political capital in one part of West Ross, 1182 01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,040 Speaker 4: and I'm intrigued by the thought process behind the pairings. 1183 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,400 Speaker 1: This is a really, really interesting question. First of all, 1184 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,960 Speaker 1: the Targarians enjoyed good relations with the Veil from the start, 1185 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: back to the days of the conquest. The Veil, though 1186 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: it was preparing to fight submitted bloodlessly because visnya Targerian, 1187 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,160 Speaker 1: one of being One's sisters, took Ronald Aaron, the eventual 1188 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,720 Speaker 1: heir of the Iri and the Veil and the son 1189 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,959 Speaker 1: of Queen Regent Shara Eron, took him for a joyride 1190 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,360 Speaker 1: on her dragon a couple times around the mountains, and 1191 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:09,320 Speaker 1: whether it was like the implicit threat of seeing her 1192 01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,880 Speaker 1: child on the back of a dragon, though by. 1193 01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,880 Speaker 3: All accounts Ronald. 1194 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,800 Speaker 1: Was delighted at this joy ride, or because of real 1195 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:24,040 Speaker 1: affection and real appreciation at being kind of approached in 1196 01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:29,240 Speaker 1: a way that wasn't immediately warlike the veil submitted. Fast 1197 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:34,640 Speaker 1: forward to the years of Jaharis Visceras's betrothal to Emma Aaron, 1198 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,880 Speaker 1: I think appears pretty straightforward in terms of like what 1199 01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: inspired this. Roderick Aaron, Emma's father, Lord of the Iri 1200 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 1: defender of the Veil, had known Queen Allison since they 1201 01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,360 Speaker 1: were children. Apparently they met very early on, and Roderick's 1202 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,520 Speaker 1: sister was one of the Queen's very trusted ladies in waiting, 1203 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: who is the histories make pains to point out, were 1204 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,040 Speaker 1: extremely loyal to her and she was beloved of them, 1205 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:03,160 Speaker 1: and certainly Roderick, who ascended to Lord of the Veil 1206 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,960 Speaker 1: at a very early age, would have probably had to 1207 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 1: okay that, would have had to send her there and 1208 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,160 Speaker 1: say that's fine. He was known as a really smart guy, 1209 01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,040 Speaker 1: uniquely kind, certainly in the context of Westrus. The fact 1210 01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,680 Speaker 1: that people are mentioning that he's kind, and it's in 1211 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:20,720 Speaker 1: the books that this was a kind and generous guy 1212 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: that means something, and very clearly Jaharis. 1213 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,120 Speaker 3: And Alison trusted him. 1214 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,040 Speaker 1: The king would name him Master of Laws after a 1215 01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,920 Speaker 1: breakout of an illness called the Shivers, which broke out 1216 01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,240 Speaker 1: during a winter that happened early in Jeharis's reign. It 1217 01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,439 Speaker 1: killed thousands, including the king and queen's daughter Danaris, who 1218 01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,280 Speaker 1: was really beloved of them, and that was particularly a 1219 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,280 Speaker 1: shock because it was not it was thought that the 1220 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: Targerians don't really get sick, that they played by different 1221 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,120 Speaker 1: rules than everybody else, so that her death was shocking, 1222 01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,720 Speaker 1: and it also wiped out a bunch of the king's advisors. 1223 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: And so the king named Roderick Master of Laws because 1224 01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:57,400 Speaker 1: he trusted him and he needed new bodies in there. 1225 01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,200 Speaker 1: And when it came time to seek a betrothal for 1226 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,840 Speaker 1: Princess Dla. Roderick was put forward as one of three 1227 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:08,000 Speaker 1: options by the Queen, clearly at the Queen's behest alongside 1228 01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,480 Speaker 1: Borham and Brathian, who is the grand father of the 1229 01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:13,960 Speaker 1: Lord of Storms, ends in House of the Dragon right 1230 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,920 Speaker 1: now and time in Lanister and ancestor of Jason and 1231 01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,280 Speaker 1: Thailand Lanister. Now, Roderick was clearly the dark horse candidate. 1232 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Not the best looking guy. They'd say that he's like Balding. Well, 1233 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,880 Speaker 1: he's like thirty six, he has a beer belly. They 1234 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 1: take pains to mention that his body type and body 1235 01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,000 Speaker 1: shame him in the histories. And certainly you know there's 1236 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,080 Speaker 1: a Lanister in there. He's not the richest, but he'd 1237 01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 1: been running the veil for twenty years, you know, since 1238 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:42,640 Speaker 1: he was sixteen, So that's a mark. 1239 01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:43,040 Speaker 3: In his favor. 1240 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,760 Speaker 1: And again the King and Queen really liked him, trusted him, 1241 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:52,440 Speaker 1: and having seen the way he comported himself as Master 1242 01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 1: of Laws, thought that this is a competent, good guy 1243 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,960 Speaker 1: with solid judgment, who's again nice. The Queen clearly preferred him, 1244 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: telling Dala that listen, this is a kind and gentleman. 1245 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,000 Speaker 1: He'll be an able protector and then Dela met with 1246 01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:12,680 Speaker 1: all the suitors and shocking everyone except probably the Queen 1247 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's the guy. 1248 01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 3: I like him. 1249 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,400 Speaker 2: He seems he seems really gentle and kind. 1250 01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,440 Speaker 3: That's the dude. Now. 1251 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,520 Speaker 1: She would then give birth to their child, Emma Viceras's 1252 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,240 Speaker 1: eventual wife in the year eighty two, and then, as 1253 01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,320 Speaker 1: a result of the birth, would die sometime after of 1254 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:35,360 Speaker 1: a fever. This absolutely broke the Queen's heart and Lord 1255 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 1: Aaron as well, who like, really really loved her. He 1256 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,120 Speaker 1: wanted her buried in the veil because he wanted to 1257 01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,040 Speaker 1: remain close to her. The Queen was like, no, she's 1258 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,080 Speaker 1: a Targarian. We're going to cremate her according to family 1259 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:53,400 Speaker 1: tradition and intern her. So that happens, and clearly, you know, 1260 01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:57,880 Speaker 1: just imagining, probably some hard feelings there between Lord Aaron 1261 01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 1: and the Crown because of that, and he wanted to 1262 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: say close to his wife. They said no, Alison. On 1263 01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,280 Speaker 1: her part, the Queen blamed everyone for Dale's death. She's like, 1264 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, the masters weren't good enough, Roderick could have 1265 01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:14,080 Speaker 1: done more, and also you, my husband, Jeharris, why did 1266 01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:17,000 Speaker 1: you we should have let her stay a little longer. 1267 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,200 Speaker 1: In King's landing, like we shouldn't have you know, like 1268 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,160 Speaker 1: you pushing this marriage, this is your fault and this 1269 01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,320 Speaker 1: actually caused a significant rift in their relationship. So thinking 1270 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,680 Speaker 1: about that kind of rift, you know, an emotional rift 1271 01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 1: at the very least between the veil and the realm, 1272 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,480 Speaker 1: and knowing how important purity of blood is to Targarian's right, 1273 01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,960 Speaker 1: they want to keep the blood pure, right, and Emma 1274 01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:43,560 Speaker 1: was half Targarian. So one, why this marriage, Well, you're 1275 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,680 Speaker 1: bringing a Targarian home, You're bringing a half Targarian back 1276 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: into the blood. And two, because of these potentially hard 1277 01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,600 Speaker 1: feelings between the crown and Roderick, here's a way to 1278 01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,760 Speaker 1: patch that up. Right, we heard of Asaras, I mean, 1279 01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,200 Speaker 1: we can patch this up, maybe we can. 1280 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:56,640 Speaker 3: Make this better. 1281 01:05:57,080 --> 01:06:00,520 Speaker 1: Damon is maybe a little muddier, but also like consider 1282 01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,520 Speaker 1: he was the second son. Yes, like the air in 1283 01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,600 Speaker 1: the Spare says that you know, potentially you have Damon 1284 01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,480 Speaker 1: around because he could ascend to the throne. 1285 01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:11,840 Speaker 3: So while I know we're. 1286 01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:15,400 Speaker 1: Saying the Royces aren't the house of the veil, you're 1287 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,840 Speaker 1: not the overlord of the veil, it's still a good deal. 1288 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,680 Speaker 1: Rhea is heir to Runestone. You know, you would imagine 1289 01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:27,560 Speaker 1: there's probably a scarcity of opportunities for the second son, 1290 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,840 Speaker 1: the not crown prince, to actually inherit a castle. 1291 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,440 Speaker 3: Through the wedding deal like that might not happen. 1292 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,280 Speaker 1: So I think what we're looking at is one the 1293 01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,439 Speaker 1: first marriage Visaras and Emma, which just made political sense, 1294 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: and it was a way to bind up the wounds, 1295 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,800 Speaker 1: potentially emotional wounds that Roderick Aaron had and certainly like 1296 01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,040 Speaker 1: politically bind the Veil closer to the crown. And for Damon, 1297 01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,560 Speaker 1: I think it was a wedding of opportunity. He could 1298 01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,320 Speaker 1: befit his station, he can become Lord of Runestone, and 1299 01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 1: in such case that he would actually ascend to the throne. 1300 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,720 Speaker 1: It's another good mark on him, not to mention going 1301 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,400 Speaker 1: forward in our stories. It's mentioned in the World of 1302 01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Ice and Fire that as we exit the era of 1303 01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:17,960 Speaker 1: the Dance of the Dragons, which we're watching, you know, 1304 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,760 Speaker 1: roll out now in House of the Dragon, there's going 1305 01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,800 Speaker 1: to be a little bit of erin blood in all 1306 01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:28,280 Speaker 1: the Targerian rulers that follow. That's how closely the Veil 1307 01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,720 Speaker 1: and the Targarian family are allied. So it actually makes 1308 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,520 Speaker 1: sense in the context of the broader. 1309 01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,840 Speaker 4: History Conna asks speaking of blood lines. With so much 1310 01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:41,320 Speaker 4: talk about Valarian bloodlines this week, I got to thinking 1311 01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:44,120 Speaker 4: about the primary ethnic groups in West Ross. As far 1312 01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:48,400 Speaker 4: as I can tell, there are four Valerians, Targarians and Valarions, 1313 01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:52,680 Speaker 4: the Royin r dawn Andals, the Vein and Aaron's question 1314 01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,080 Speaker 4: mark I think, and the first men northern. 1315 01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,400 Speaker 2: Houses in the high towers. Is there a hierarchy du joure. 1316 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,840 Speaker 4: In terms of those groups, I'm the desirability in a 1317 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:05,880 Speaker 4: spouse or ally, That's what we were asking, is that racism. 1318 01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,000 Speaker 3: Is there racism in Westerrus? This is an interesting question. 1319 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,800 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, the Valerians we need to unpack 1320 01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,480 Speaker 1: a little bit. So the Valarians are an ethnic group 1321 01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,320 Speaker 1: right descending from Old Valaria. The Targerians, the Valarians come 1322 01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,240 Speaker 1: from there, and I think it's important to understand that 1323 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,519 Speaker 1: what makes the Targarians so special is they are the 1324 01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:29,679 Speaker 1: only surviving dragon riding family from Valeria. Where you want 1325 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,479 Speaker 1: to consider that as separate ethnicity from Valarians large, I 1326 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:39,240 Speaker 1: would not, But Valerians are like not uncommon. They colonized 1327 01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of Sus and the free cities of Sus 1328 01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:49,840 Speaker 1: are significantly populated by descendants of Valerians, so there's a 1329 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,920 Speaker 1: lot of blood out there from Valeria. But the Targerians 1330 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,519 Speaker 1: are special because again they are the only surviving dragon 1331 01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,800 Speaker 1: riding family. And Valeria was an olergarchy, no high king, 1332 01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:04,680 Speaker 1: but it was ruled by you know, its collection of 1333 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,760 Speaker 1: dragon writing households, of which the Valarians were one. So 1334 01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,160 Speaker 1: I think we can call the Valarians an ethnic group, 1335 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: though obviously a very rare one, with the understanding that 1336 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,520 Speaker 1: the Targerians are separately above that because they have dragons. 1337 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,800 Speaker 1: The roin r Yes again hailing from Esos, from the 1338 01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,760 Speaker 1: area around the river Royine, the and Alls. So the 1339 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,880 Speaker 1: and Alls, if you had to like create a hierarchy, 1340 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,599 Speaker 1: I think you would say that and All culture is 1341 01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:37,679 Speaker 1: I think inarguably the dominant culture of Westrous, certainly south 1342 01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,720 Speaker 1: of the neck, and certainly politically economically in terms of 1343 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,639 Speaker 1: you know, the way that the kingdom is run. Egon 1344 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,840 Speaker 1: converted to the faith of the Seven, which is the 1345 01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,640 Speaker 1: and All faith, soon after he took on his conquest, 1346 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,040 Speaker 1: and that was really important politically so that people would 1347 01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,120 Speaker 1: accept him. So I think you'd say that the and 1348 01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,960 Speaker 1: Alls really are the kind of like dominant cultural force, 1349 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,639 Speaker 1: ethnic force in Westros, and then of course the first 1350 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,280 Speaker 1: Men who are still around, still very strong, you know. 1351 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:11,639 Speaker 1: Of course north of the Neck is basically first Men country. 1352 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,400 Speaker 1: It's primarily families of pure first Men descent up there, 1353 01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,360 Speaker 1: with some notable holdouts. You know, the Manderlies come from 1354 01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,640 Speaker 1: the South and they were taken in by the Starks 1355 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,600 Speaker 1: notably centuries ago. But they come from the South and 1356 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,320 Speaker 1: come from an Andal descent. But yeah, it would be 1357 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,360 Speaker 1: the and All's as kind of like the dominant cultural force. 1358 01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,920 Speaker 1: Even the Tigerians had to adopt and all customs in 1359 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,040 Speaker 1: order to be accepted as the rulers of Westros. And 1360 01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,360 Speaker 1: when they didn't do that see the Rules of aniss 1361 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,320 Speaker 1: in the second King of Westros and magor the absolutely 1362 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:47,879 Speaker 1: you know, terrible third King, bad things happened, Rebellions, wars, 1363 01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:48,439 Speaker 1: et cetera. 1364 01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,760 Speaker 4: Okay, Andrew Osks, I feel like this is a very 1365 01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,680 Speaker 4: good catch and also something I wish Venera would have 1366 01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,960 Speaker 4: possibly considered. So Andrew Osks. After Raniera and Sir Kristin 1367 01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,759 Speaker 4: cole get it on and Damon spreads his partially true 1368 01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:06,559 Speaker 4: rumor about the Princess. The Princess flatly denies having lost 1369 01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,760 Speaker 4: her virtue when she speaks to her father. Is there 1370 01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,080 Speaker 4: any way the King sent the moon tea to her 1371 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,759 Speaker 4: more as a test than as an actual remedy. 1372 01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,400 Speaker 1: I guess it's possible, and Visara's is certainly a smart guy, 1373 01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,160 Speaker 1: smart enough to come up with that, though I think 1374 01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,519 Speaker 1: in terms of his character, probably not manipulative enough to 1375 01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:30,599 Speaker 1: actually carry it out. 1376 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:32,760 Speaker 3: But I think no. 1377 01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:38,280 Speaker 1: I leen no, because Visas more than anything, just wants 1378 01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,840 Speaker 1: to believe what Raniera tells him, and he's got a 1379 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:45,559 Speaker 1: real blind spot when it comes to her, and when 1380 01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,080 Speaker 1: it comes to their relationship. Look at how stubborn he's being, 1381 01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, in supporting her as Princess of Dragonstone, the 1382 01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:58,720 Speaker 1: crown Princess, despite like significant blowback that he's getting from everybody. 1383 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,920 Speaker 1: And I think he, more than anything, sent the tea 1384 01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,800 Speaker 1: as a way to say, Okay, we made this deal. 1385 01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,120 Speaker 1: Now sign on the dotted line and just drink this. 1386 01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:10,639 Speaker 1: Put my mind at ease that there's not any bastards 1387 01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,920 Speaker 1: running out out here and let's just move on. 1388 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:14,559 Speaker 3: So I think no, But you. 1389 01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,240 Speaker 2: Never know, You never know, You never know. 1390 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,640 Speaker 4: Quick Slof asks what's up with the Strong family and 1391 01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:20,600 Speaker 4: their dynamics. 1392 01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:21,719 Speaker 3: Oh the Strongs. 1393 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So the Strongs are a ancient house of the Riverlands. 1394 01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,559 Speaker 1: Here's a fun fact. They are descended from the First Men. 1395 01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,599 Speaker 1: And oftentimes in this story you can kind of tell 1396 01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:36,200 Speaker 1: who the First Men families are because their names are 1397 01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:40,519 Speaker 1: the shorter, punchier, more for a lack of a better word, 1398 01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:46,320 Speaker 1: primitive sounding names that are like a reference to something strong. 1399 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,200 Speaker 1: There are a strong mud stark. Those are the kind 1400 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:54,400 Speaker 1: of first Royce. These are the kind of names that 1401 01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,720 Speaker 1: you often find associated with families descended from the first Men. 1402 01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 1: So that the Strongs come from the first Man. They've 1403 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:03,400 Speaker 1: been around the river lands for a while, we don't 1404 01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,880 Speaker 1: exactly know where they hail from. But kind of rewinding 1405 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:10,880 Speaker 1: to the reign of Magor the Cruel, So Maygor was 1406 01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:16,200 Speaker 1: married to Alice Harroway. Alice Harroway, there's a lot I'm 1407 01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:20,639 Speaker 1: simplifying this a lot, but Alice Harroway. Maygor had been 1408 01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,920 Speaker 1: trying really hard to create an air. He knew he 1409 01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,840 Speaker 1: had to solidify his hold on the throne because he 1410 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:30,040 Speaker 1: was fighting a vicious religious war against the kind of 1411 01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,320 Speaker 1: like extremist sects of the Faith of the Seven because 1412 01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:36,040 Speaker 1: they didn't accept him because for various reasons, he'd usurped 1413 01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,480 Speaker 1: the throne, for one, and to his marriage and relationship 1414 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,320 Speaker 1: proclivities were definitely in defiance of the things that the 1415 01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,320 Speaker 1: faith set out, and Alice Harroway ended up giving birth 1416 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:50,920 Speaker 1: to a stillborn child with no eyes. That was quote monstrous, 1417 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:55,479 Speaker 1: and Maygor's reaction to this was that that's not mine. 1418 01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:58,519 Speaker 3: My wife is cheating on me. I'm going to kill 1419 01:13:58,520 --> 01:13:59,120 Speaker 3: all the Haroway. 1420 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,519 Speaker 1: So he wipes out the hair family and then he 1421 01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,360 Speaker 1: sets up like this big winner take all tournament to 1422 01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:08,479 Speaker 1: see who can win Herron Hall formerly the house of 1423 01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: Castle of the Harrowis House Towers wins that House Towers 1424 01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,439 Speaker 1: basically goes broke when at the end of Maygor's reign, 1425 01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:18,360 Speaker 1: as Jharris is ascending, they had to give up a 1426 01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:23,720 Speaker 1: bunch of land for legal reasons. Their earning power was curtailed, 1427 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,080 Speaker 1: they didn't have any savings, they didn't have a lot 1428 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,880 Speaker 1: of heirs that were young and healthy enough to carry 1429 01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,839 Speaker 1: on the lineage. They made the really really poor decision 1430 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:37,400 Speaker 1: of naming one of their the kind of last remaining 1431 01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:40,240 Speaker 1: person of their family, Maygor, after the terrible king that 1432 01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:44,920 Speaker 1: was just ruling and so Eventually that castle came up 1433 01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,600 Speaker 1: for grabs because house Towers went extinct and broke Ja 1434 01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:54,519 Speaker 1: Harris gave Heron Hall to the Strongs, and Biwen Strong 1435 01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:59,799 Speaker 1: became Lord of Heron Hall. Now Biwen's older brother, Lucamore Strong, 1436 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,720 Speaker 1: as a member of the King's Guard, call him Lusty Luke. 1437 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,479 Speaker 1: They call him Lusty Luke because it turned out this 1438 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:10,479 Speaker 1: guy broke his fucking vows like Wilt Chamberlain, broke his vows, 1439 01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,760 Speaker 1: like broke the records in a way that will never 1440 01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,760 Speaker 1: be surpassed. He had three secret families. 1441 01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:19,520 Speaker 2: Lifetime movie style. 1442 01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:23,759 Speaker 3: And like a gaggle of children. 1443 01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,679 Speaker 1: Right, So this comes to light, and this is important 1444 01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: because this is context for Cole's reaction, I think, and 1445 01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:32,960 Speaker 1: it certainly would have been something that was in Kristen 1446 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:37,400 Speaker 1: Cole's mind. So this comes to light. Actually, Ryan RedWine, 1447 01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:40,160 Speaker 1: the previous Lord Commander of the King's Guard before Sir 1448 01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,840 Speaker 1: Harold Westerling, the guy who died in between episodes one 1449 01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,240 Speaker 1: and two, and they were just like, oh he died, 1450 01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:51,120 Speaker 1: he was old. Ryan RedWine snitched out Lusty Luke. Lusty 1451 01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,679 Speaker 1: Luke appears before the King throws himself on the King's 1452 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,160 Speaker 1: mercy right, they brought all his families, all these secret 1453 01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,320 Speaker 1: families of these kids there. Damn. 1454 01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,360 Speaker 2: It was like you are everyone's father, Yeah, you are 1455 01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:06,040 Speaker 2: the father of everybody here. 1456 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,320 Speaker 1: And Lusty Luke falls on his kneasy and he's begging 1457 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:14,720 Speaker 1: the king's forgiveness, which apparently would have almost happened like 1458 01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,519 Speaker 1: Jehara's was leaning towards okay, I'll just send this fucking 1459 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:20,479 Speaker 1: guy to the wall. But then he said, for the 1460 01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:25,479 Speaker 1: good of my family and my children, please like don't execute. 1461 01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:26,160 Speaker 2: Me, and which family? 1462 01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,840 Speaker 1: Basically which one, and basically like admitting like I did it. 1463 01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,200 Speaker 1: So they chopped his dick off and they sent him 1464 01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:38,240 Speaker 1: to the wall. This, of course, would have been one 1465 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,920 Speaker 1: of the things that they tell you in like Kingsguard 1466 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:46,439 Speaker 1: Orientation Day, Hey, don't be like Lusty Luke, which was 1467 01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:48,200 Speaker 1: only again, like only like. 1468 01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,519 Speaker 3: Thirty to forty ish years ago. It was not like that. 1469 01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,120 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so it's recent memory. 1470 01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:58,160 Speaker 1: It's recent memory, and it was a scandalous thing that 1471 01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,839 Speaker 1: the fucking common folks loved. 1472 01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:05,559 Speaker 3: They wrote songs about this guy, and so that's. 1473 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,400 Speaker 1: Going to be in the back of Kristen Cole's mind, 1474 01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, when he reacts the way he does in 1475 01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:13,080 Speaker 1: this episode. Okay, So then Lionel strong A snds to 1476 01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,599 Speaker 1: the castle, and you know, mostly what we know about 1477 01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:19,559 Speaker 1: Lionel is just he is a very quiet guy, a 1478 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:24,479 Speaker 1: very smart man who holds his tongue. He studied the 1479 01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,960 Speaker 1: citadel for a while and became an expert at the law, 1480 01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,639 Speaker 1: which King Jaharis had done a lot to kind of 1481 01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:36,120 Speaker 1: reform and to unify. At that time, there were a 1482 01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,240 Speaker 1: bunch of different like local laws, some of which kind 1483 01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,960 Speaker 1: of didn't make sense as a cohesive whole when you looked. 1484 01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:43,360 Speaker 3: At the realm. 1485 01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:45,200 Speaker 1: And then there were certain areas where they were still 1486 01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:50,120 Speaker 1: doing the prima n nocte like thing where the lord 1487 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:54,400 Speaker 1: on the wedding night of a couple gets to say, hey, 1488 01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,559 Speaker 1: I get to sleep with the woman before anybody else, 1489 01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,719 Speaker 1: which was terrible. So there was a lot of reforming, 1490 01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:03,519 Speaker 1: and Strong, a student of that reform, became master of 1491 01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,040 Speaker 1: laws because he was such an expert at it. Then, 1492 01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,720 Speaker 1: of course there's Harwin Strong, who was Lionel's oldest son 1493 01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,720 Speaker 1: we met this episode Break Bones, super super strong guy. 1494 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:18,080 Speaker 1: And then his younger son is Laris the Clubfoot, who 1495 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 1: is showing us you know what he's about. So where 1496 01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:24,200 Speaker 1: do they come from before hero and all? We're not 1497 01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,559 Speaker 1: actually sure actually, but somewhere in the riverlands. We don't 1498 01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,439 Speaker 1: know what their seat was. But you know, we should 1499 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,120 Speaker 1: keep in mind that ever since Hair in the Black 1500 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,240 Speaker 1: built Heron Hall and then was burned alive in it 1501 01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,519 Speaker 1: shortly thereafter, along with all of his sons, everybody who 1502 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:45,519 Speaker 1: lives in Heron Hall just encounters problems. We saw what 1503 01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,120 Speaker 1: happened with the Harroway's. They were wiped out and towers 1504 01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:50,400 Speaker 1: they went broke, they died out, and now it's the Strongs. 1505 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,000 Speaker 3: How will they do? I guess we'll have to say 1506 01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:55,520 Speaker 3: how will they fa? 1507 01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,519 Speaker 4: Amanda asks, why do you think Damon went to the veil? 1508 01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,160 Speaker 2: Unfortunately? I think he went to kill his wife. I 1509 01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:03,200 Speaker 2: think he went to kill Rain. 1510 01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:06,160 Speaker 1: I think he very very clearly went to kill his wife. 1511 01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:08,880 Speaker 1: And I think that's really sad and fucked up. You know, 1512 01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:12,000 Speaker 1: there's that moment where he kind of walks away and 1513 01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:14,880 Speaker 1: she's saying, oh, I knew you couldn't finish, and then 1514 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,439 Speaker 1: he turns around and you could kind of convince yourself, oh, 1515 01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:19,920 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to kill her until that, which doesn't 1516 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,679 Speaker 1: make it better. But I think he was just looking 1517 01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,479 Speaker 1: for a good enough rock, you know, honestly, So yeah, unfortunately, 1518 01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: I think he was going to kill his wife. 1519 01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,599 Speaker 4: I agree, because Vessiri's basically said, you can't get married 1520 01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,639 Speaker 4: to my daughter because you're already married. 1521 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 2: So he's like, well, I'm going to solve that by 1522 01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:37,360 Speaker 2: killing my wife. 1523 01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:39,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, very very unfortunate. 1524 01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:40,439 Speaker 2: Rip Rea Race. 1525 01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,479 Speaker 4: Last question, Okay, George says, is wildfire on the game 1526 01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:46,800 Speaker 4: board in the era of hot d I know it's 1527 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,360 Speaker 4: associated with the Mad King, but was it discovered or 1528 01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,200 Speaker 4: developed earlier than his reign. 1529 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:56,120 Speaker 1: It's probably not on the table. It was developed earlier 1530 01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,760 Speaker 1: in his reign. We first hear about it during the 1531 01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,639 Speaker 1: reign of egg On, the Fourth egg On the Unworthy, 1532 01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:06,400 Speaker 1: one of the worst kings megor Aside, But that is 1533 01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:11,280 Speaker 1: kind of decades after this era, and of course there's 1534 01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:15,320 Speaker 1: dragons flying around this era, so it's while it may 1535 01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:19,160 Speaker 1: have been in development by the Alchemist Guild, we don't 1536 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:24,240 Speaker 1: hear about it until about one seventy four, and you know, 1537 01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:28,639 Speaker 1: that's you know, fifty some odd years after the story 1538 01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:31,439 Speaker 1: we're seeing now, So it's my senses, we're not gonna 1539 01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,400 Speaker 1: we're not gonna see it that's it for Ask the 1540 01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:37,280 Speaker 1: Maser this week. Love hearing from you. Please send your 1541 01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,320 Speaker 1: questions to Ask Theemaster at gmail dot com. And don't 1542 01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,280 Speaker 1: miss the new HBO original series House of. 1543 01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:46,439 Speaker 2: The Dragon, now streaming on HBO Max Sundays at nine up. 1544 01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:49,800 Speaker 3: Next, we leave Westruss for Middle Earth to discuss Lord. 1545 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,280 Speaker 2: Of the Rings, Rings of Power. 1546 01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,000 Speaker 1: We're stepping out of the airlock and into the beautiful 1547 01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:08,880 Speaker 1: and spacious minds of Moria for Amazon f Lor of 1548 01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:10,679 Speaker 1: the Rings, Rings of Power. 1549 01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,960 Speaker 3: We're going to cover the first half of the season. 1550 01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,559 Speaker 1: Episode one, Shadow of the Past, Episode two, A Drift, 1551 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,000 Speaker 1: Episode three, A Dar, Episode four of the Great Wave. 1552 01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,679 Speaker 1: Your thoughts on this show thus far into the season. 1553 01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:27,040 Speaker 2: I am enjoying it. 1554 01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,360 Speaker 4: I think we'd said this from the beginning when we 1555 01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:32,920 Speaker 4: did our early reactions, but I think it's a really 1556 01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:36,559 Speaker 4: great thing to watch alongside House of the Dragon because 1557 01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:37,559 Speaker 4: it's so different. 1558 01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,160 Speaker 2: It's kind of this expansive. 1559 01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,880 Speaker 4: Slow bun world building that is far less political and 1560 01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,559 Speaker 4: more focused on kind of these these intimate character moments 1561 01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:52,840 Speaker 4: and relationships. Obviously, it's beautiful, and I also think it's 1562 01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,320 Speaker 4: getting better with every episode. 1563 01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,040 Speaker 3: For me, it's like I need Elron and Duran. 1564 01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:03,760 Speaker 1: Yes, the bat is I could spend all of my 1565 01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:10,640 Speaker 1: time with Elrond and Duran because that friendship is what 1566 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:11,920 Speaker 1: it is about for me. 1567 01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:13,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. 1568 01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:14,080 Speaker 3: Like there's that. 1569 01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:18,599 Speaker 1: Moment in episode four where Duran finds Elron sneaking around 1570 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:20,720 Speaker 1: in the minds he shouldn't be sneaking around, finds him 1571 01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:25,200 Speaker 1: sneaking around the mines, has already been suspecting. Elron didn't 1572 01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: just fucking show up here. He's got an agenda. He 1573 01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:32,760 Speaker 1: didn't just miss me after twenty years, like, and they 1574 01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:33,800 Speaker 1: argue a little bit, and. 1575 01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:36,320 Speaker 3: Then finally he's like, Okay, we found something down there. 1576 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:37,240 Speaker 3: You know. 1577 01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,880 Speaker 1: It's this really cool substance lighter than silk, strong and 1578 01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:44,000 Speaker 1: the steel that's fucking sick. It's amazing. If we can 1579 01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:47,360 Speaker 1: mind this thing, we're gonna be rich. And Elron's like, okay, 1580 01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,360 Speaker 1: but I whant to just like tell everybody this is 1581 01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:53,599 Speaker 1: great news. And then despite the fact that like there 1582 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:58,280 Speaker 1: is still so much friction between the two, Duran immediately 1583 01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,240 Speaker 1: is like confides in him, where, well, my dad in 1584 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:05,559 Speaker 1: a way that like makes clear that Duran disagrees with 1585 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,920 Speaker 1: this without openly coming out like against his father during 1586 01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:13,680 Speaker 1: the third Yeah, during the fourth is like, well, I 1587 01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,680 Speaker 1: don't know. My dad says it's too perilous to mine it, 1588 01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:18,920 Speaker 1: and this is the way we have to do it. 1589 01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:21,439 Speaker 3: I that relationship is wonderful. 1590 01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:25,519 Speaker 1: And then when he like lets him keep the mythrill sample, Yeah, 1591 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,400 Speaker 1: it was super cool. Did you know it was gonna 1592 01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,160 Speaker 1: be Mythril? Like, at what point did you know what 1593 01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:30,880 Speaker 1: it was gonna be? 1594 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,080 Speaker 4: I didn't really put two and two together that that 1595 01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,479 Speaker 4: was the secret that Durham was keeping because I was 1596 01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,800 Speaker 4: so invested in the during an hour one relationship and 1597 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,080 Speaker 4: Lisa as well is so great. So the three of 1598 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:44,760 Speaker 4: them together are so enjoyable. But as soon as they 1599 01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:46,759 Speaker 4: were down there and he was like we found something, 1600 01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,400 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, it's Mythral. I was like, this 1601 01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:51,599 Speaker 4: makes sense, Like you know, and the most recent movies 1602 01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:53,240 Speaker 4: we got before this were the Hobbit movies. 1603 01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,800 Speaker 2: And you see it in there that. 1604 01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,960 Speaker 4: Bilbo gets given like a mythral shot that is like 1605 01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:03,960 Speaker 4: an armor that the elves made Nanya, the Elven ring 1606 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 4: of power that Galadrio has that later. 1607 01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:09,400 Speaker 2: On in the Lord of the Rings movies that is 1608 01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:10,320 Speaker 2: made of Mythrial. 1609 01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,439 Speaker 4: So it's like a really important substance. But again, I'm 1610 01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,040 Speaker 4: just like you, I love what it means for their friendship, 1611 01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,559 Speaker 4: like it, and I feel like Elron truly does want 1612 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:22,400 Speaker 4: to be a good friend to during. So it's not 1613 01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:25,560 Speaker 4: like Duran is being fooled or anything. 1614 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:26,760 Speaker 2: But he's so trustworthy. 1615 01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:28,800 Speaker 4: He just wants to share it with his bro He's 1616 01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,120 Speaker 4: just like, I found this cool thing, man, Like, why 1617 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:31,960 Speaker 4: don't you keep it? 1618 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:33,200 Speaker 2: Like that? 1619 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,920 Speaker 4: To me, is is the best the best stuff in 1620 01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:40,599 Speaker 4: the show. And Robert Ameo and o A and Arthur are. 1621 01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,040 Speaker 2: So good together. 1622 01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's I think, you know, it replicates something 1623 01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:47,640 Speaker 4: that people really loved from Lord of the Rings, was 1624 01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,960 Speaker 4: that relationship between Legless and Gimli. You know, this this 1625 01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,960 Speaker 4: warring races of elves and dwarves, but they find this 1626 01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,840 Speaker 4: companionship or this friendship, and I think that getting to 1627 01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,040 Speaker 4: see that again is something that he people are really 1628 01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,639 Speaker 4: excited for. And I thought it was kind of really 1629 01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,840 Speaker 4: cool to have that and then contrast it to like 1630 01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:09,120 Speaker 4: the more kind of horror focused fantasy stuff that they're 1631 01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,320 Speaker 4: doing introducing the Orcs, which again are like one of 1632 01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:16,400 Speaker 4: like the scariest fantasy creations ever, and they're doing a 1633 01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:21,160 Speaker 4: really interesting job here, kind of building out the world of. 1634 01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:25,120 Speaker 3: The aught, yeah, like a history beyond just like they 1635 01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:26,360 Speaker 3: are pure evil. 1636 01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:28,760 Speaker 4: That yeah, it's like who do they follow, why do 1637 01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,040 Speaker 4: they follow them, what do they care about? 1638 01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:32,479 Speaker 2: What do they aim for? 1639 01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,840 Speaker 4: This notion of creating this space that we assume is 1640 01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,920 Speaker 4: going to become Mordal. That's like a space where evil 1641 01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,840 Speaker 4: can thrive and the Orcs can thrive. Even in that 1642 01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,000 Speaker 4: there is some grain in there of like that's what 1643 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:48,160 Speaker 4: everyone wants. They just want somewhere they can live. Like, sure, 1644 01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,439 Speaker 4: you're building it so that evil can thrive, but like 1645 01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,200 Speaker 4: you know, and I think they're doing a good job 1646 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:56,400 Speaker 4: for this is kind of like hot Dea as well 1647 01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:01,080 Speaker 4: as like we're in a world where these projects are 1648 01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,960 Speaker 4: based on stuff where we already know the outcome. So 1649 01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:08,000 Speaker 4: introducing mystery is very hard, but both shows are really 1650 01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:08,800 Speaker 4: excelling at that. 1651 01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:11,200 Speaker 2: So, like who is the Stranger? 1652 01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,639 Speaker 4: You know, that's one of the big questions everyone wants 1653 01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,800 Speaker 4: to know from the first four or five episodes, who 1654 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,920 Speaker 4: is this strange man who fell from a comet? Because 1655 01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,160 Speaker 4: that's not a character that is instantly recognizable. 1656 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:26,880 Speaker 2: So let's get let's who is the stranger? Who do 1657 01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:27,880 Speaker 2: you think? Okay? 1658 01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:32,519 Speaker 4: So I originally was like, oh, it's probably is just 1659 01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:35,639 Speaker 4: a new character, because I really love the half foot 1660 01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,559 Speaker 4: stuff as well, and get it's really interesting to have 1661 01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,439 Speaker 4: Poppy and Nori have this kind of secret and then 1662 01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,720 Speaker 4: have this guy become an ally to them. But I 1663 01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:50,719 Speaker 4: will say I do now believe I believe he could 1664 01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:54,400 Speaker 4: be sour On, or I believe he could be connected 1665 01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:56,920 Speaker 4: to Souron, like potentially going to become a ring wraith 1666 01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:00,559 Speaker 4: or something, because in the early episode of show, when 1667 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,960 Speaker 4: Galadriel is in Souron's lair, she's like, it's so cold. 1668 01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:05,600 Speaker 4: All the torches went out, and it seems to be 1669 01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:11,080 Speaker 4: this connection to coldness, and that's becoming a recurring thing. 1670 01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:13,439 Speaker 4: You know, he was near the fireflies and all the 1671 01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,960 Speaker 4: lights went out, and I wonder if that's going to 1672 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,639 Speaker 4: be that heartbreaking reveal, is like that this is someone 1673 01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:22,519 Speaker 4: who is learning to be good but is innately created 1674 01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,280 Speaker 4: to cause something terrible. And obviously the other one is 1675 01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,960 Speaker 4: hal Brand, who is another character who was created for 1676 01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,960 Speaker 4: the show, who I think a lot of people also 1677 01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:33,160 Speaker 4: think he could be sour On. So it's like, who's Souron? 1678 01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:35,880 Speaker 4: Is that that's really the biggest theory here is like 1679 01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:39,479 Speaker 4: which one could he secretly be? But also the Stranger 1680 01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:42,240 Speaker 4: could be this just like hot Da, they're kind of 1681 01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,800 Speaker 4: fudging the timeline as we know it because a lot 1682 01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:47,360 Speaker 4: of this stuff is very different from how it was 1683 01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,599 Speaker 4: in the books. So there's also a chance that, like 1684 01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,400 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people when they saw the Stranger, 1685 01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:54,679 Speaker 4: they wondered if it was Gandalf or one of the wizards, 1686 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,880 Speaker 4: and they just kind of pushed that a little bit earlier. 1687 01:27:57,479 --> 01:27:58,240 Speaker 2: For it to happen. 1688 01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:00,640 Speaker 4: But I'm really enjoying it, and I just think the 1689 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,000 Speaker 4: cost is so good and the production design is so 1690 01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:07,559 Speaker 4: good and bad. McCreary's score is so good. So it's 1691 01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:11,640 Speaker 4: a very it's it's it's slow, but it's very immersive. 1692 01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm really appreciating seeing places we've only kind of just 1693 01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:20,679 Speaker 1: heard about, you know, seeing the Lord of the Rings 1694 01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:25,919 Speaker 1: version of Atlantis. This kind of like the greatest city 1695 01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:32,280 Speaker 1: of men ever, the highest expression of their of their 1696 01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:37,880 Speaker 1: culture and creation and ability that we know for a 1697 01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,600 Speaker 1: fact is going to get destroyed at some point. And 1698 01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,160 Speaker 1: we're seeing that, you know, we're we're seeing the kind 1699 01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:46,439 Speaker 1: of the quakes of that now is awesome. The fact 1700 01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,719 Speaker 1: that is Sildur, who we know is going to cut 1701 01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:49,880 Speaker 1: off the. 1702 01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:58,400 Speaker 2: Cars sword's rig and then and then destroyed. Yeah, then 1703 01:28:58,520 --> 01:28:59,240 Speaker 2: not do it. 1704 01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:03,200 Speaker 4: And also like you have like in episode four, like 1705 01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:06,400 Speaker 4: one of the creators confirmed that in the in the 1706 01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:10,519 Speaker 4: Hall of Laws where where Galadriel and Ellen Dill are 1707 01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,840 Speaker 4: kind of like working out what's going on there, I 1708 01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:17,280 Speaker 4: think is episode three or episode four, and they see, 1709 01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:19,400 Speaker 4: you know, there's this sword and people were like, oh 1710 01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,479 Speaker 4: my god, that's the nasial sword and they were like, 1711 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:22,160 Speaker 4: yeah it is. 1712 01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:24,240 Speaker 2: So they're just like throwing these kind of. 1713 01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,120 Speaker 4: Tidbits and easter eggs and and moments like you said, 1714 01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:31,559 Speaker 4: and it's the isol door thing. Is like really, that's 1715 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,960 Speaker 4: one of the most effective ones for me, because he's 1716 01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:35,800 Speaker 4: just like he's a he's kind of a bum, but 1717 01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:39,360 Speaker 4: like he's like a sweet, like happy bum, and he's 1718 01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:40,280 Speaker 4: like really kind. 1719 01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just like a young guy who doesn't have 1720 01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:44,120 Speaker 2: any money yet. 1721 01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:47,120 Speaker 1: And yeah, he's just like bucking around, like just fucking 1722 01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,080 Speaker 1: around looking for adventure. 1723 01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:53,040 Speaker 4: Very very charming stuff, and it's I feel like it's 1724 01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:54,479 Speaker 4: going to age very well. 1725 01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:56,799 Speaker 2: That's something I think about watching it a lot. 1726 01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:58,360 Speaker 1: Is like it's people are gonna be able to watch 1727 01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,920 Speaker 1: this with their kids for thirty forty fifty years, and 1728 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:02,360 Speaker 1: I think. 1729 01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:04,120 Speaker 4: People are going to look back at it and be like, Wow, 1730 01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:06,640 Speaker 4: that was like such a swing to like make this 1731 01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:12,640 Speaker 4: really slow bun kind of kind epic fantasy that's very 1732 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,360 Speaker 4: much about just existing in the world rather than the 1733 01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,880 Speaker 4: kind of like brutality and visceral action of like a 1734 01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:20,080 Speaker 4: lot of prestige TV. 1735 01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:22,960 Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm a fan. I know a lot of 1736 01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:24,120 Speaker 2: our listeners are fans. 1737 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:27,640 Speaker 1: So I have a question because something kind of like 1738 01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:31,519 Speaker 1: hit my eyes and ears in an interesting way. So 1739 01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:39,400 Speaker 1: there's that scene from four where celebrinbor Celebrinbor as Elron says, 1740 01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:45,880 Speaker 1: is is he he's speaking with al Rond Elron's you know, 1741 01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:48,720 Speaker 1: standing like at the balcony, and then Celebrin Boar is like, 1742 01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:54,280 Speaker 1: I just all of a sudden had this memory that 1743 01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:58,040 Speaker 1: your father told me that I was going to have 1744 01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:02,160 Speaker 1: to like I'm paraphrase now, like put myself in your 1745 01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,880 Speaker 1: hands like for something. And for some reason, like it's 1746 01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:08,519 Speaker 1: just hitting me now that that conversation happened. And we 1747 01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,320 Speaker 1: know that Celebran War is going to forge the Rings spoiler, 1748 01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:14,800 Speaker 1: and we know the Rings are a very very long 1749 01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:20,759 Speaker 1: range plot to control Middle Earth. Is that the fact 1750 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:25,360 Speaker 1: that he didn't remember that thing until that right moment, 1751 01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:29,800 Speaker 1: is that some sort of like dark glamour that has 1752 01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:31,960 Speaker 1: placed very very deep into. 1753 01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:33,920 Speaker 4: That's what I'm trying to work out, is like it 1754 01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,880 Speaker 4: feels almost magical, like some scales just fell from his eyes. 1755 01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:38,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1756 01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:41,240 Speaker 4: Also, I'm like, is it another one of those moments 1757 01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:43,120 Speaker 4: that we loved so much from the first couple of 1758 01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:45,640 Speaker 4: episodes where it's like, is this just the nature of 1759 01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:49,719 Speaker 4: being an elf where you're alive for like three thousand years? 1760 01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:51,200 Speaker 3: True, that's a good point. 1761 01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,919 Speaker 4: Actually, like so many different memories. But I do think, 1762 01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,280 Speaker 4: and I think in the context of the wider show, 1763 01:31:58,720 --> 01:32:02,439 Speaker 4: I think that the the the glamour or magical kind 1764 01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:08,400 Speaker 4: of implantation or armoring of that memory until the moment 1765 01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:11,400 Speaker 4: that it needed to be there. I think that's very likely. 1766 01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:12,920 Speaker 3: What are the Orcs building? 1767 01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:17,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I think because so something that people had 1768 01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:19,360 Speaker 4: noticed from the first time that Amazon was doing these 1769 01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:22,120 Speaker 4: videos where they were showing where the Southlands is on 1770 01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:25,600 Speaker 4: the map, the kind of very famous Tolkien Lord of 1771 01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:26,280 Speaker 4: the Rings map. 1772 01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,400 Speaker 2: It's in the same place as Mordor. What will become 1773 01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:30,960 Speaker 2: mord Or at least part of it is. 1774 01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,560 Speaker 4: And the way they put the word the Southlands is 1775 01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:37,080 Speaker 4: right where the word Mordel would usually be. So I 1776 01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:40,280 Speaker 4: think what we're seeing with the reveal that we got 1777 01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,080 Speaker 4: in these episodes, that the mark that everyone's seeing that 1778 01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:44,920 Speaker 4: some people thought, is it that I have sour On? 1779 01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:45,400 Speaker 2: Is it that? 1780 01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,080 Speaker 4: Is it the sword the THEO has. It's actually a 1781 01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:52,160 Speaker 4: map to the Southlands, to the two, map to the 1782 01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:56,599 Speaker 4: mountain range that will eventually become like the base of Mordel. 1783 01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,280 Speaker 4: So I think what the Orcs and potentially a though 1784 01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:02,800 Speaker 4: we don't really know much about him, another character where 1785 01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,559 Speaker 4: it's unclear who he is though he is an Elf, 1786 01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:07,760 Speaker 4: which is very interesting, corrupt it else, which is a 1787 01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:08,719 Speaker 4: corrupted ola. 1788 01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,840 Speaker 2: So I think that they're building. 1789 01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:16,799 Speaker 4: What will become you know, more door and the base 1790 01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:20,280 Speaker 4: of Souron's operations. What we kind of saw, you know, 1791 01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,559 Speaker 4: Mount Doom or that kind of yeah, that bleak space. 1792 01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,439 Speaker 4: It would fit in with the timeline that it hasn't 1793 01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:26,920 Speaker 4: been built yet, but it's on its way to be 1794 01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:27,639 Speaker 4: being built. 1795 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:29,360 Speaker 2: But I'm very interested. 1796 01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:33,360 Speaker 4: Because I also feel like it's unclear whether Adar is 1797 01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:37,559 Speaker 4: actually a follower of Souron or not. I feel like 1798 01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:40,280 Speaker 4: he's much There's a little bit more complexity there of like, 1799 01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:42,720 Speaker 4: is this someone who actually just wants freedom for the 1800 01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:45,160 Speaker 4: Orcs and to create a space for the Orcs outside 1801 01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:45,879 Speaker 4: it's souron. 1802 01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:50,080 Speaker 1: It seemed like a wonderful performance by Joseph Marl, who 1803 01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:54,000 Speaker 1: played Benjamin Stark. Of course, you do get the sense 1804 01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:57,919 Speaker 1: that whatever his previous life, is an elf something. 1805 01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:01,200 Speaker 3: At least this was my inter pretation. I like yours. 1806 01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:05,360 Speaker 3: Also that he's like he's actually. 1807 01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:13,080 Speaker 1: Motivated by his empathy weirdly and his kinship with Orcs. 1808 01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:16,559 Speaker 1: But I wonder if there isn't something of his elf 1809 01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:20,400 Speaker 1: self that remains, and maybe it's that, maybe it's that 1810 01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:26,160 Speaker 1: like wanting to cooperate, you know, Orcs famously we'll just 1811 01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,320 Speaker 1: get into violent fights with each other at the drop 1812 01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:31,559 Speaker 1: of a hat and then murder each other over nothing, 1813 01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:36,920 Speaker 1: Whereas it seems like orin like there's something else. 1814 01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're following a Dar. 1815 01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 4: They chant his name, they listen to his orders. It's 1816 01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:45,280 Speaker 4: very unusual, so I think as well, I'm sure if 1817 01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:47,519 Speaker 4: we're adding to the Suron pile, I'm sure there are 1818 01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:50,160 Speaker 4: people who probably believe that Adar might be a version 1819 01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:53,479 Speaker 4: of so. Because Saren has had many different forms, people 1820 01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:56,160 Speaker 4: believe will probably see him as anata, which is the 1821 01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:59,960 Speaker 4: form of a gift giver, the charming man who convince 1822 01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:01,639 Speaker 4: the elves to create the rings. 1823 01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:01,920 Speaker 2: You know. 1824 01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:09,000 Speaker 4: So, honestly, seeing as Celebrimbour is already planning celeb seeing 1825 01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:12,680 Speaker 4: as he's already kind of scheming on the notion of 1826 01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,800 Speaker 4: creating this thing, maybe Sourn is already back that's the 1827 01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:19,200 Speaker 4: most interesting thing. And now they're halfway through the season. 1828 01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:20,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. 1829 01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,600 Speaker 4: I think it would be incredibly brave of them to 1830 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:27,000 Speaker 4: not have Souron in the first season, but I would 1831 01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:29,439 Speaker 4: assume that we are going to get a hint or 1832 01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:32,400 Speaker 4: a veal, or at least get introduced to someone who 1833 01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:36,640 Speaker 4: goes by one of the many names of Souron. I 1834 01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:39,080 Speaker 4: don't want hal Brand to be evil because I really 1835 01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,880 Speaker 4: like the relationship for him between him and Galadriel as 1836 01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:45,280 Speaker 4: these kind of outsiders. But I do believe he is charming. 1837 01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:47,880 Speaker 4: He's from the Southlands, he doesn't want to go back there. 1838 01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:50,599 Speaker 4: He's good at forging steel, so he could also be 1839 01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:52,280 Speaker 4: everyone could be Sourn. 1840 01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:57,240 Speaker 1: Let me ask you something. If you live in Middle Earth, 1841 01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:59,920 Speaker 1: and you find an evil looking part of a sword. 1842 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:02,200 Speaker 3: It's like. 1843 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:09,599 Speaker 2: One, yeah, the what do you like for his mom? 1844 01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,960 Speaker 2: His mom is so cool and she's so sweet, and 1845 01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:14,360 Speaker 2: she messed. 1846 01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:16,960 Speaker 4: Up by not teaching he obviously they're playing with the 1847 01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:20,200 Speaker 4: idea of like his hatred and bigotry towards the elves 1848 01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:24,479 Speaker 4: is like clouding and judgment, but also like please my guy, 1849 01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,719 Speaker 4: and you touched it and it created like a gnolly 1850 01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:28,960 Speaker 4: sign on your arm and you didn't like tell your 1851 01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:30,439 Speaker 4: mom or anything like come. 1852 01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:30,760 Speaker 3: On, my guy. 1853 01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,840 Speaker 1: It first of all, it's broken, so you can't even 1854 01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:37,439 Speaker 1: use it, and it cut you. It cut you, and 1855 01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,880 Speaker 1: it looks evil, and when you're just even around it, 1856 01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:43,559 Speaker 1: the energy is evil. 1857 01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:45,080 Speaker 3: And then the orc showed up. 1858 01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:47,679 Speaker 4: And also the only other person who has any knowledge 1859 01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:49,599 Speaker 4: of it is some old crazy guy who's like, oh, 1860 01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,400 Speaker 4: we're gonna become evil now we both have. 1861 01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,240 Speaker 1: And I'd be like, no, thanks, who's name dropping sore 1862 01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:55,680 Speaker 1: on left? 1863 01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:58,719 Speaker 2: Right, He's like, you're out of him right. Seems also 1864 01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:00,880 Speaker 2: like now the orcs for hunting you. 1865 01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:02,439 Speaker 3: Let's get rid of this thing. 1866 01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,000 Speaker 2: What is the endgame here? I know, I'm like you 1867 01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:07,160 Speaker 2: could have just like buried it or something. 1868 01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:11,839 Speaker 4: I'm guessing that, like so many evil artifacts in our lives, 1869 01:37:12,040 --> 01:37:14,559 Speaker 4: in our in our films, and in of course Lord 1870 01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:16,080 Speaker 4: of the Rings, the Ring of Power, we've seen it, 1871 01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,960 Speaker 4: my precious, I'm assuming that once you find that sort, 1872 01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:22,439 Speaker 4: especially if you're young and your brain hasn't fully developed 1873 01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,000 Speaker 4: yet because you're not twenty five, and also you're like 1874 01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:28,080 Speaker 4: very silly and you've been raised with like this hatred 1875 01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:30,400 Speaker 4: towards people who are looking after you, I feel like 1876 01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:33,760 Speaker 4: it probably gets its claws into you mentally, and it 1877 01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,719 Speaker 4: wants it. You want to keep it around, even against 1878 01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:40,200 Speaker 4: like logical logical kind of choices, so it has that 1879 01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,639 Speaker 4: magical evil artifact effect. 1880 01:37:44,080 --> 01:37:47,000 Speaker 1: But still we are in the Second Age, correct, Yes, 1881 01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:54,559 Speaker 1: so like somewhere around this is my biggestres six thousand years, yes, 1882 01:37:54,840 --> 01:37:56,600 Speaker 1: or Lord of the Rings. 1883 01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:59,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the Second Age goes over three thousand years, right. 1884 01:37:59,600 --> 01:37:59,840 Speaker 3: Yes. 1885 01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,480 Speaker 2: I still feel like and I couldn't find a concrete 1886 01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:04,040 Speaker 2: answer for this. 1887 01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:07,840 Speaker 4: I still feel like it's quite unclear where we are 1888 01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:10,000 Speaker 4: from the because lots of different things are happening that 1889 01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:13,240 Speaker 4: would have happened over hundreds of years, but the general consensus, 1890 01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:16,040 Speaker 4: I think is is taking place around fifteen hundred, which 1891 01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:19,120 Speaker 4: is about halfway through. Though I would say because of 1892 01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,280 Speaker 4: some of the stuff we've seen in Numanor, I would 1893 01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:23,360 Speaker 4: actually think it was a bit earlier. So I think 1894 01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:25,719 Speaker 4: that's the most interesting thing. But it is the Second Age. 1895 01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:27,960 Speaker 4: Most of the characters that we've met have a very 1896 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:30,519 Speaker 4: long lifespan, so we're probably going to be with these 1897 01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:35,599 Speaker 4: characters for a fairly long time. Yeah, and it will 1898 01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:38,960 Speaker 4: be interesting to see how the humans and the elves 1899 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,519 Speaker 4: and the dwarves, how that all changes and interacts it 1900 01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:43,479 Speaker 4: as it moves forward. 1901 01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:45,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, we think. 1902 01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:52,040 Speaker 1: You know, Numena, it seems lasted until towards the end 1903 01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,320 Speaker 1: of the Second Age. This is after their break with 1904 01:38:55,400 --> 01:38:56,040 Speaker 1: the Elves. 1905 01:38:56,479 --> 01:39:00,000 Speaker 4: But Galadriel's planning to sail ships to the Middle Earth first, 1906 01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:03,120 Speaker 4: this happened in like six hundred, though this seems to 1907 01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:05,880 Speaker 4: be taking place more around like twelve hundred, so maybe 1908 01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:10,880 Speaker 4: ships have already gone to MIDDLEFS. It's very interesting, and 1909 01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:13,920 Speaker 4: I think it's probably this is four weeks in to 1910 01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:17,440 Speaker 4: the most expensive TV show ever made with record breaking viewership, 1911 01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:19,720 Speaker 4: and no one on the creative team has come out 1912 01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:21,880 Speaker 4: and been like this is when it takes place, So 1913 01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:23,120 Speaker 4: it's probably for a reason. 1914 01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:26,200 Speaker 2: It is like my yeah, but I would love. 1915 01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:29,920 Speaker 4: To see like a timeline same, not based on the books, 1916 01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:32,160 Speaker 4: because there's a lot of brilliant timelines from the books, 1917 01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,600 Speaker 4: but when this season is done, I would love to 1918 01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:37,880 Speaker 4: see if they release like an official timeline of sort 1919 01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:38,800 Speaker 4: of when everything is. 1920 01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:44,160 Speaker 1: Occurring and we've heard your please, we will be keeping 1921 01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:47,320 Speaker 1: a tighter track on the Rings of Power as we 1922 01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:51,640 Speaker 1: slip the rings deftly onto our fingers and hope that 1923 01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:52,519 Speaker 1: they're not evil. 1924 01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:58,639 Speaker 3: That's it for episode one this week. 1925 01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,559 Speaker 1: A big thank you to Rosie night Rosie plugs, plugs, plugs, 1926 01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:03,439 Speaker 1: what have you to plug? 1927 01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:05,439 Speaker 4: If you like Lord of the Rings, I am covering 1928 01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:08,240 Speaker 4: it every week at IGN. I have a ton of 1929 01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:13,360 Speaker 4: cool stuff coming out at NOTICED obviously IgM pollogon bunch 1930 01:40:13,400 --> 01:40:17,320 Speaker 4: of brad comics coverage. You can follow me on Instagram 1931 01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:22,320 Speaker 4: and letterbox, Rosie Marx m A RX and hopefully I'll 1932 01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:25,080 Speaker 4: have some more cool comic book news to announce soon. 1933 01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:27,599 Speaker 2: And here of course with Jason Yes. 1934 01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:29,439 Speaker 3: And then of course if. 1935 01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:33,120 Speaker 1: You want to read Rosie's coverage of Rings of Power 1936 01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,280 Speaker 1: and everything else, we're going to have links to that 1937 01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:41,040 Speaker 1: in the show notes so you can follow along catch 1938 01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:45,040 Speaker 1: the next episode on September thirtieth. Don't forget to subscribe 1939 01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:48,479 Speaker 1: to the show on YouTube and follow at XRV pod 1940 01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:51,960 Speaker 1: on Twitter. We've got a discord show up there. Please 1941 01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,400 Speaker 1: come introduce yourself. Rosie and I are active when they're 1942 01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:56,880 Speaker 1: The community is wonderful and very welcoming, and we'd love 1943 01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:59,560 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Don't forget, send your house to 1944 01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:04,000 Speaker 1: the Dragon, queries to ask Themaster at gmail dot com, 1945 01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:07,320 Speaker 1: and of course a reminder our second episode this week, 1946 01:41:07,600 --> 01:41:11,439 Speaker 1: we'll Becovering she Hulk, interviewing she Hulk head writer Jessica 1947 01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,599 Speaker 1: Gow and heading back. 1948 01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:17,520 Speaker 3: To Star Wars cover and or episodes one through three. 1949 01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,160 Speaker 3: Five star reviews. We want five star reviews. 1950 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,800 Speaker 1: Leave us a five star review on your podcast platform 1951 01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:26,920 Speaker 1: of choice. Here's a wonderful five star review from Manderson Junior. 1952 01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:28,320 Speaker 3: The nerd friends I needed. 1953 01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:30,519 Speaker 1: I recently moved to caa from Ohio and in doing 1954 01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:32,400 Speaker 1: so lost the friends I used to go see all 1955 01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:36,360 Speaker 1: the MCU movies with on opening night. Having this podcast 1956 01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:37,960 Speaker 1: gives me the space I need to nerd out and 1957 01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:39,960 Speaker 1: listen to people discuss the franchises in. 1958 01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:41,559 Speaker 3: The way I need. That's so wonderful. 1959 01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:43,879 Speaker 2: Thank you. Manderson, thank you, that's the best. 1960 01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:45,599 Speaker 3: Ah, that was really nice. 1961 01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:47,720 Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show 1962 01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:50,080 Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lorden Salrubin. The show is executive 1963 01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:52,800 Speaker 1: produced by myself and Sandy Garhard are editing and sound 1964 01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:57,240 Speaker 1: designers by Vacilla's Photopoulos. Dylon Villanueva and Matt Degroup provide 1965 01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:00,559 Speaker 1: video production support. Alex Rellerford handles social medi to thank you, 1966 01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:02,360 Speaker 1: Brian Vesquez for theme music. 1967 01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:04,560 Speaker 2: See you on the next episode. 1968 01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:09,400 Speaker 3: Bye mm hm