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Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 1: true crime all the time.

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Speaker 2: It's Thursday, January twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: Stephanie is at Sundance and I'll be out for a

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Speaker 1: few days, so we decided to give everyone the night off. Instead,

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Speaker 1: We're going to revisit a show that was especially popular

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Speaker 1: around the Christmas holiday. We hope you enjoy this encore episode.

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Speaker 3: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 3: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 3: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 4: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here, of course.

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Speaker 2: With Body Move In and Courtney Armstrong. Listen, everybody.

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Speaker 4: It is Tuesday, December twenty third, just two days before.

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Speaker 2: Christmas, and we have a stack knight of headlines.

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Speaker 4: But we also have a very special topic that we

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Speaker 4: want to unpack because this is the time of year

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Speaker 4: that we want to be sharing, we want to be

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Speaker 4: hearing new ideas, and there's no better person to be

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Speaker 4: joining us than Michelle Dillon. So a little backstory as

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Speaker 4: we head into the holidays, we're spotlighting a specific organization

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Speaker 4: that gains something really meaningful to people who often get forgotten.

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Speaker 4: It's for many of those who are behind bars serving time,

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Speaker 4: things like books aren't even readily available. So imagine you

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Speaker 4: want to improve your life, you want to do better,

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Speaker 4: you want to reform, but yet you don't have access

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Speaker 4: to even the basics, like a really great book. So tonight,

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Speaker 4: our very special guest who was joining us from across

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Speaker 4: the world. Quite frankly, you know it's nighttime here, but

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Speaker 4: basically four am at her time, is Michelle Dillon, vice

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Speaker 4: president of Books for Prisoners, a nonprofit that's sent free

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Speaker 4: books to incarcerated people all across the country. And Michelle,

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Speaker 4: we're so happy to have you here, thank you for

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Speaker 4: getting up so early, and we're wishing you a very

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Speaker 4: pre happy holiday. So yeah, welcome Michelle.

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Speaker 5: Thank you all very much for having me. Happy holidays

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Speaker 5: to you all as well. And I'm really excited to

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Speaker 5: be able to share this wonderful work with all of

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Speaker 5: you today, and.

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Speaker 4: For listeners who may not know what books to prisoners,

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Speaker 4: you know, I get it on its nose. I guess

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Speaker 4: the title keeps for itself, but How did you get

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Speaker 4: into this and how does this program work?

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Speaker 5: Yes, as you said, books to Prisoners. Thankfully, our organization

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Speaker 5: name is fairly self explanatory. We are focused on sending

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Speaker 5: free reading materials to people who are incarcerated across the

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Speaker 5: United States. We started in nineteen seventy three, so we've

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Speaker 5: actually been around for more than fifty years now doing

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Speaker 5: the same mission. When we started, we started to serve

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Speaker 5: political prisoners, but we very quickly realized that the need

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Speaker 5: was so much greater than that population. Everybody who was

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Speaker 5: incarcerated needed access to books and magazines and other reading materials,

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Speaker 5: so we expanded to include anybody who writes to make

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Speaker 5: a request for books to us. And we are one

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Speaker 5: of several dozen groups around the country that all share

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Speaker 5: this mission of providing books to people who are incarcerated

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Speaker 5: in jails and prisons and immigration detention centers. Some of

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Speaker 5: us work nationally, like Books to Prisoners Seattle. Others of

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Speaker 5: us have a special focus, like LGBT Books to Prisoners

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Speaker 5: or Books to Women in Prisons. And I got involved

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Speaker 5: because at the time I was living in Seattle getting

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Speaker 5: my Master of Library and Information Science at the University

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Speaker 5: of Washington and I'd always envisioned myself as maybe a

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Speaker 5: public librarian or an academic librarian, because I had this

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Speaker 5: focus on getting information to people who don't necessarily have

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Speaker 5: consistent access to it. Like in public librarians, right, they

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Speaker 5: serve a lot of otherwise underserved people who wouldn't be

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Speaker 5: able to go to a bookstore and buy books, or

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Speaker 5: might have unstable housing. I came across Books to Prisoners,

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Speaker 5: and I realized that there is this entirely other level

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Speaker 5: of need for information. People who are in prisons don't

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Speaker 5: have access to the roots that we would think about.

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Speaker 5: They can't walk into a Barnes and Noble, they can't

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Speaker 5: get on the Internet even for the most part, and

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Speaker 5: definitely not unsupervised. So all of the information that they

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Speaker 5: receive is heavily gate kept and often very restricted. So

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Speaker 5: when I started volunteering for Books to Prisoners, and this

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Speaker 5: was back in twenty twelve, I just fell in love

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Speaker 5: with the organization and its mission and just this vast

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Speaker 5: need that I saw from the letters that we were receiving.

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Speaker 1: That's so remarkable in Michelle, I just on a personal level,

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Speaker 1: I thought really long and hard about going and getting

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Speaker 1: my degree in library science so I I absolutely still.

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Speaker 4: Be a great library and Courtney read I think than

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Speaker 4: anybody I know.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to say I revear what you do,

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Speaker 1: and even more so with this, I have a question

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Speaker 1: for you. So, why do you think this program resonates

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Speaker 1: sort of so deeply with people who are both inside

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Speaker 1: and outside of the prison system.

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Speaker 5: I think that this program resonates so much for the

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Speaker 5: same reason that you wanted to go and get your

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Speaker 5: library degree. I think a lot of us have had

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Speaker 5: this sort of personal experience with books and learning that

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Speaker 5: has stayed with us for our entire lives into this

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Speaker 5: transformative experience. And when we tell people that we send

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Speaker 5: books to people who are incarcerated, it just sort of

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Speaker 5: lights them up. I start thinking, oh, yeah, I remember

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Speaker 5: back to when I was a kid and I walked

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Speaker 5: into my public library and I found that one book

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Speaker 5: on the shelf. You know, the librarian helped guide my

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Speaker 5: interests and set my path for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 5: It's a very straightforward mission, right, we send books to

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Speaker 5: people who don't have books. Who can argue against that, right,

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Speaker 5: books are great, books are fantastic.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, even hearing you talk about your mission, I somehow

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Speaker 4: feel a little oddly choked up just now. I got

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Speaker 4: covered head to toe in chills. I think number one

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Speaker 4: because of the purpose. And number two imagine you're literally

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Speaker 4: in a cell. The world is very small when you've

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Speaker 4: been incarcerated, and putting crime aside and the reason for

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Speaker 4: why you're there aside for a moment, how small that

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Speaker 4: world is, right, So how do you imagine a bigger life?

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Speaker 2: I was a literature.

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Speaker 4: Major, and frankly don't read nearly as much as I should,

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Speaker 4: because growing up that was the way out.

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Speaker 2: Of just about anything.

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Speaker 4: Was a really good book sort of made the world

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Speaker 4: that may have felt small at the time really really big. Right,

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Speaker 4: So it's through other people's stories that we realize how.

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Speaker 2: Important your own story could be. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: For some reason, whatever you're saying right now just has

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Speaker 4: like hit me harder than I expected.

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Speaker 5: I really love to hear that. Because again, we get

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Speaker 5: a lot of volunteers in at books prisoners, and for

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Speaker 5: a lot of them, this might be their first contact,

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Speaker 5: like true contact with anybody who has been incarcerated is

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Speaker 5: getting these request letters and reading through them and reading

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Speaker 5: through what the conditions are like side of prisons. Because

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Speaker 5: we don't have any format for people to request books

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Speaker 5: from us, so they can just write a letter, and

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Speaker 5: so the letters that we receive come in every format.

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Speaker 5: Some people write in and they say, hey, please send

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Speaker 5: me the biggest, thickest book that you have. You know,

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Speaker 5: if it's a thousand pages, the more the better, because

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Speaker 5: I'm sitting here staring at my walls twenty four hours

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Speaker 5: a day and i just want like a great high

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Speaker 5: fantasy book to help me escape this. Or they'll write

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Speaker 5: in and they'll say, you know, I am looking for

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Speaker 5: books about my heritage. Do you have any books about

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Speaker 5: the Latin X experience in the United States or Black history,

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Speaker 5: things like that, things that help them connect with their

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Speaker 5: heritage and their roots or even just as you said,

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Speaker 5: expand their worldviews.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to True Crime tonight. I am Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 1: I am here as always, just two days before Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and we are so thrilled and honored to be joined

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Speaker 1: this evening. Excuse me with Michelle Dylon from Books to Prisoners,

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Speaker 1: and we're talking about the power of reading behind bars,

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Speaker 1: why a book can mean so much, it can mean

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Speaker 1: anything and everything, and especially during the holidays, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to sort of just raise awareness about this and if

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Speaker 1: you do have any thoughts, we want to hear from you,

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Speaker 1: so leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app Michelle. Earlier,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned how could anyone question or have a question

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Speaker 1: about how, on its face how great this program is.

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Speaker 1: And obviously you are here in a room with super fans,

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Speaker 1: which I hope you are feeling in your heart, but.

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Speaker 2: There are critics.

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Speaker 1: I would have to imagine who might question programs like this,

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Speaker 1: and how might you respond to people who say, oh,

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Speaker 1: people are incarcerated and resources shouldn't be taken away from,

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Speaker 1: say a preschool or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever hear that?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, unfortunately, I do hear that. Sometimes. I feel like

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Speaker 5: the sentiments have been changing. I've noticed a change from

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Speaker 5: when I started in twenty twelve until now in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty five, as people learn more about the system of

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Speaker 5: policing and incarceration in the United States. I think that

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Speaker 5: the sentiments about what justice means is starting to transform.

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Speaker 5: And so when people say that to me, you know,

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Speaker 5: why do people who are incarcerated, why should they get books?

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Speaker 5: Why should they have these resources? I like to talk

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Speaker 5: about the scarcity mindset and the scarcity mindset is something

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Speaker 5: that I think, unfortunately a lot of us are influenced by.

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Speaker 5: It means that we believe that there is a set

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Speaker 5: amount of resource is out there and we essentially need

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Speaker 5: to triage and find out who the most deserving. And

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Speaker 5: I put that in very heavy air quotes. People are

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Speaker 5: who should receive those resources and the rest of the

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Speaker 5: people don't deserve again, heavy air quotes anything. And what

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Speaker 5: often happens is that you pit groups of people against

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Speaker 5: each other. It becomes but what about the veterans? But

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Speaker 5: what about the homeless people? And unfortunately, people who are

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Speaker 5: incarcerated often end up being at the bottom of that hierarchy.

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Speaker 5: They're a very easy group to revile and to talk

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Speaker 5: about their life experiences in terms of they deserve only

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Speaker 5: bad things to happen to them. But at Books to

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Speaker 5: Prisoners Seattle and other groups like ours, that's not the

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Speaker 5: framework and the mentality that we operate from. We want

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Speaker 5: to see the humanity in everybody, because a person who

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Speaker 5: who's in prison, that's still a person that's still a

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Speaker 5: part of our community, that's still one of our neighbors.

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Speaker 5: As much as the system tries to divide us and

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Speaker 5: say that those people over there, those are them. We're us.

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Speaker 5: We need to focus on us, and we need to

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Speaker 5: not focus on them or actively despise them. And I

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Speaker 5: can't get behind a statement like that. I think that

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Speaker 5: people who are incarcerated deserve everything that we deserve in

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Speaker 5: terms of the types of resources like books that we

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Speaker 5: can provide to them. A book is such a simple

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Speaker 5: gesture to say, hey, I see you, You are not forgotten,

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Speaker 5: and you still deserve to be treated like a human

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Speaker 5: being who, for the most part, also might rejoin us

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Speaker 5: on the outside at a future point in time.

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Speaker 4: I guess that's the real piece of it, right at

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Speaker 4: some point the idea is people reacclimate into society, right body,

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Speaker 4: I see you popping up right now. I know this

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Speaker 4: is so close to your heart. Sometimes we get asked

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Speaker 4: this too, and I know it's a hard question to

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Speaker 4: answer on its nose, but people will say, what about

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Speaker 4: the homeless shelter, you know, what about the nursery, what

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Speaker 4: about the veterans? They need books also when they haven't

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Speaker 4: committed a crime. And it's such a complicated it's a

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Speaker 4: complicated question, and I think you just you know, answered

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Speaker 4: that so well, how do you reacclimate into a world

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Speaker 4: when you have no access to it.

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Speaker 6: And I you know, and I've often said, you know,

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Speaker 6: we live in a civilized society, and this is how we,

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Speaker 6: as a civilized society, have decided to punish people for

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Speaker 6: bad behavior. It is up to us as a village,

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Speaker 6: you know, one might say, or as a society, really

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Speaker 6: to take care of these people and rehabilitate them, right,

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Speaker 6: because I think that should be the goal of prison,

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Speaker 6: is rehabilitation. And you can't just throw somebody in a

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Speaker 6: cement sell and expect them to be completely fine when

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Speaker 6: they get released. We have to take care of these people, right,

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Speaker 6: That's the thing. And then when they get out and

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Speaker 6: they're you know, they have no talent, they have no knowledge,

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Speaker 6: they have no understanding of what's been happening in the world.

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Speaker 7: You know, they're shell shocked. You know, we have to

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Speaker 7: take care of them, if we if we truly value

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Speaker 7: what we have developed as a punishment system, you know,

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Speaker 7: we have to be providing and taking care of these

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Speaker 7: people while they're under our care. And I think nourishment

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Speaker 7: of the mind is just as important as it is

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Speaker 7: of the body and soul, truly.

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Speaker 2: And without that, yeah, and without it.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, you're just destined to repeat the same crimes, right.

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Speaker 7: Right, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: The goal is to prevent a crime. And again, I

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Speaker 4: know this is a very layered thing. I think we're

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Speaker 4: talking about everyone should have access to books, right, whether

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Speaker 4: you are a veteran, it's a courting right. You talk

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Speaker 4: to somebody who's just had their daughter murdered, they may feel,

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Speaker 4: you know, where are our priorities? And I think it's

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Speaker 4: a really clear distinction. If someone's meant to re access

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Speaker 4: the world, you know, rehabilitation is the only way to

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Speaker 4: a healthy ending. Otherwise we're just guaranteeing a repeat of

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Speaker 4: what got them there in the first place.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Stephanie, and listen, we're going to continue

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Speaker 1: this discussion much more after the break, so please stick

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: Listen. Books may be a gift, but not all.

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Speaker 1: Prisoners, not all prisons make it easy to get them.

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Speaker 1: And so after the break, Michelle is going to walk

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Speaker 1: us through some of the obstacles, some of the censorship,

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Speaker 1: and some of the really surprising rules that can keep

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Speaker 1: reading materials out of the hands of inmates.

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Speaker 2: Keep it here True crime tonight, we are talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 4: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here just two

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Speaker 4: days before Christmas with Body Move In and Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 2: My Holiday Gems, and listen.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about a very heavy topic, but a really

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Speaker 4: important one because I know, leading up to the holidays,

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Speaker 4: we want to be actionable, we want to make the

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Speaker 4: world better, and Michelle Dylan is.

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Speaker 2: Doing just that.

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Speaker 4: She is the vice president in the brains behind Books

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Speaker 4: to Prisoners, and since it's the holiday season, we've been

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Speaker 4: talking a lot about how meaningful one single book can

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Speaker 4: be for someone behind bars.

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Speaker 2: I mean, just think about that, you're.

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Speaker 4: Behind bars, you're paying for whatever air quotes, sin you've committed,

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Speaker 4: or whatever crime I should say you've committed, and it's

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Speaker 4: the holidays, and you're feeling like the walls are probably

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Speaker 4: so closing in, and one book could mean the difference

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Speaker 4: between how I feel today and how I know what

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Speaker 4: I can feel once I'm out of here. And what

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Speaker 4: we're learning through Michelle's work is that it is not that.

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Speaker 2: Easy to access a book.

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Speaker 4: A simple book can really be the biggest mind opener anywhere.

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Speaker 4: So Michelle thank you. We're so happy again that you're here.

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Speaker 4: And again, if anybody wants to jump in and join

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Speaker 4: the combo, leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: So, Michelle, where should we go next? Courtney? Do you

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Speaker 2: want to give us a little more background?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to crow about your organization just a

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Speaker 1: little bit more, Michelle, So, even with obstacles. Books to

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Speaker 1: Prisoner it's a Seattle based nonprofit. It promotes literacy, self empowerment,

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Speaker 1: and compassion by sending free books to incarcerated people and

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Speaker 1: it's nationwide and Books to Prisoners mails out tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of books.

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Speaker 2: Every year and they are tailored.

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Speaker 1: They are tailored to personal requests, which I think is

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Speaker 1: so beautiful. And their goal is to break cycles of recidivism,

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Speaker 1: encourage education, and promote human connection. And these things help

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Speaker 1: every single person who live in our world. Michelle, What

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Speaker 1: are some of the obstacles to that prisoners may face

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Speaker 1: when trying to get access to books?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Where to start with this one? So, the biggest

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Speaker 5: issue that happens inside of prisons is that obviously it's

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Speaker 5: this warehouse where people are put and anything that comes

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Speaker 5: into the prison is going to be put through this

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Speaker 5: system of guard control and policies before it ever reaches

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Speaker 5: the person who it's intended to reach. So with books,

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Speaker 5: that means there's really only a few ways to get

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Speaker 5: a book inside of a prison. There's going to be

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Speaker 5: the mail room if you mail in a book, and

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Speaker 5: then there's going to be a library. But neither of

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Speaker 5: those are going to be the same sort of situation

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Speaker 5: between prisons. There's no standard for the mail rooms and

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Speaker 5: there's no standard for the library. What I mean by

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Speaker 5: that is, let's start with libraries. So libraries are often

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Speaker 5: the last budget item basically to be funded by a

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Speaker 5: Department of correction. It's not necessarily a priority unless there

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Speaker 5: is special funding that's allocated to it. So we have

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Speaker 5: gotten reports of prison libraries that have been closed for

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Speaker 5: six months. People write to us and talk about how,

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Speaker 5: for example, there was one in Texas where the roof

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Speaker 5: flooded in the area where the library was. So what

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Speaker 5: did they do? They just shut it down and they

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Speaker 5: hadn't had access to it all year, Or they don't

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Speaker 5: have a trained librarian on staff and so they aren't

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Speaker 5: able to keep access to the library. And that means

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Speaker 5: that people are more or less cut off from having

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Speaker 5: books because what you have to really internalize is that

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Speaker 5: life inside of prisons is all about control. So you

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Speaker 5: on the outside, I think, are used to thinking about

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Speaker 5: information as a more fluid kind of object. If you

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Speaker 5: have a question, you can go onto Google and ask it.

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Speaker 5: You can pop down to your library. You know, at

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Speaker 5: all hours of the day, you can go to your

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Speaker 5: friends and borrow a book from their bookshelf. You can't

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Speaker 5: do any of that inside of a prison. Any of

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Speaker 5: the information that you get is going to be channeled

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Speaker 5: through either the library setting, which again is going to

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Speaker 5: vary widely from facility to facility, or is going to

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Speaker 5: come in through the mailroom. And this is where the

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Speaker 5: real issues start to happen, because the mail room is

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Speaker 5: a place where there are a lot of capricious policies

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Speaker 5: that are implemented, that are not always reviewed to see

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Speaker 5: if they are going to serve the prison population, and

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Speaker 5: are often motivated by ulterior motives. So we've been having

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Speaker 5: this problem recently where there are new policies springing up

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Speaker 5: at state Department of Corrections and at the federal level

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Speaker 5: that say that there can no longer be used books

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Speaker 5: sent in, only new books so that essentially prevents work

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Speaker 5: from organizations like ours. And there's an issue beyond that,

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Speaker 5: because think about the cost of a new book twenty

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Speaker 5: five dollars, thirty dollars. It's been talking very expensive, and

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Speaker 5: you're talking about a group of people whose wages are

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Speaker 5: often pennies per hour work. So if you're going to

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Speaker 5: make a new policy that's access used books, truly think

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Speaker 5: about what that means for a person who might be

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Speaker 5: earning one dollar a day and what that does for

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Speaker 5: their access to information.

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Speaker 7: Why did they have to be Why are used books

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Speaker 7: being banned?

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Speaker 5: So the systems have been talking a lot recently about

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Speaker 5: drug contraband coming into prisons, and they have opted to

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Speaker 5: scapegoat books and groups like ours that send in used books,

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Speaker 5: and they have implemented in quite a few locations these

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Speaker 5: drug scanning machines that we have found are not necessarily

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Speaker 5: the most accurate. In twenty twenty four, the New York

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Speaker 5: City Department of Investigation actually looked into a few of

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Speaker 5: these drug scanning devices and found that they have a

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Speaker 5: false positive rate of up to ninety one percent.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 5: Basically, what these systems are saying is there are people

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Speaker 5: out there who are allegedly dunking the books in a

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Speaker 5: liquid drug and then trying to mail them into people

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Speaker 5: who are incarcerated. But what the reports are finding is

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Speaker 5: that a lot of these allegations are actually not holding

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Speaker 5: up under investigation. But unfortunately, groups like ours become collateral

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Speaker 5: where this fear of contraband entering in through the mailroom

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Speaker 5: becomes a new policy where suddenly no used books can

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Speaker 5: be provided. And that again, in a system where people

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Speaker 5: don't have consistent, easy access to our programs, that means

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Speaker 5: a sudden cessation of access to books altogether, or at

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Speaker 5: least a dramatic reduction of them.

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Speaker 7: This is True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking

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Speaker 7: true crime all the time. I'm Body Moven and I'm

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Speaker 7: here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We are joined

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Speaker 7: this wonderful holiday season by Michelle Dlon and she's helping

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Speaker 7: us understand why something as simple as a book can

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Speaker 7: be so hard to get in a prison and how

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Speaker 7: meaningful it is for the people who live there. If

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Speaker 7: you have thoughts and we want to hear from you,

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Speaker 7: please or leave us a talkback on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 7: Michelle how common is context based censorship, Like certain topics

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Speaker 7: or authors or even genres, are those kinds of things

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Speaker 7: being censored and blocked.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, So we're talking about content based censorship, which is

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Speaker 5: a category that was defined by pen America in a

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Speaker 5: wonderful report that they put out in twenty nineteen. So basically,

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Speaker 5: there's two types of bands inside of prisons. There's the

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Speaker 5: bands that occur on the center of the book, so

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Speaker 5: the ones that affect used books. But then there's also

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Speaker 5: the content based censorship, meaning censorship that occurs because of

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Speaker 5: what is actually inside of the book. And it's one

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Speaker 5: of the biggest hurdles that groups like ours face because

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Speaker 5: there's no lists for materials that are approved or disapproved.

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Speaker 5: For the most part, it's completely a state by state

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Speaker 5: decision and oftentimes a mailroom by mail room decision about

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Speaker 5: what materials they're going to allow in for people to

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Speaker 5: read and what materials they will not.

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Speaker 1: And Michelle, when you break it down that way, who

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Speaker 1: is making these decisions? Because even earlier you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: many prisons don't have librarians who are staffed, So in

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Speaker 1: that instance, who's making this decision?

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Speaker 2: Is it arbitrary?

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Speaker 5: It's a very arbitrary. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to

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Speaker 5: the one person who's working in the mailroom that day,

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Speaker 5: because again there's no regulations on these. So if there's

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Speaker 5: a guard in the mailroom and they decide that they

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Speaker 5: don't want to let a Spanish language dictionary in, for example,

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Speaker 5: which has happened. We've had rejections on things like foreign

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Speaker 5: language learning materials because the prison will say that it's

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Speaker 5: written in code, all right. So it could be that

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Speaker 5: it's just this one guy in the mailroom who either

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Speaker 5: has an ideological issue with the material that we're sending in,

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Speaker 5: or might even have a beef with the person who's

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Speaker 5: on that mailing label and decides to get at them

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Speaker 5: by prohibiting access to this book. They can make a

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Speaker 5: unilateral decision to reject this book. And there's no review

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Speaker 5: committees in most states. There are in some like we're

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Speaker 5: very grateful that Washington and Colin Dorado have review committees

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Speaker 5: that are set up by a minimum of three people,

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Speaker 5: one of whom must be a librarian, to review any

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Speaker 5: attempted book rejections and make sure that they're not being

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Speaker 5: done for the wrong reasons, and to overturn book rejections

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Speaker 5: when appropriate. But even if you have a committee like that,

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Speaker 5: you don't even necessarily keep track of the books that

437
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 5: are written in other systems, which has been a big

438
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 5: hurdle for us. So we don't know what is prohibited

439
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 5: at any prison or in any state, So we're essentially

440
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 5: sending books out into the void, crossing our fingers, hoping

441
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 5: that they get in, hoping that whatever system we're sending

442
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 5: it into, or whatever prison that we're sending it into

443
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 5: is going to be lenient that day. And in a

444
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 5: lot of these systems, they aren't even required to send

445
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 5: back a notice of rejection to us, So sometimes we

446
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 5: send out a book and we don't even know if

447
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 5: it's made it to the recipient or not, which is

448
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 5: always a stressful scenario. Because we're a very relatively low

449
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 5: income nonprofit right we're mostly donation based. Every package of

450
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 5: books that we send out costs us about five dollars,

451
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 5: and we send out about twelve thousand packages of books

452
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 5: every year, So if we have a book rejection, we're

453
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 5: talking about money that has been spent that we could

454
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 5: have used for another one of our incarcerated patrons. Where

455
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 5: every prison is different, so the issue is that within

456
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 5: different prisons. There's no standardization for how the systems are

457
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 5: tracking which books are being rejected. There's no standard system

458
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 5: for how they would have to notify us if a

459
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 5: book is rejected, and there's no standard system for any

460
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 5: review committee to make sure that these books are not

461
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 5: being rejected, because again, a guard is just decided on

462
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 5: a whim that he doesn't like the sort of things

463
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: that are being sent in to be read by people

464
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 5: inside of the prison. And when I talk about content

465
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: based censorship, I mean the things that are censored are wild.

466
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 5: Our groups have gotten rejections of things that contain, for example,

467
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 5: maps of the Moon, with the rationale being that it

468
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 5: could facilitate an escape attempt. Same thing for Game of Thrones,

469
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 5: because there's a map of west Ros in there, and

470
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 5: one of our groups has had a rejection notice because

471
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 5: that map of wester Ros could facilitate an escape attempt.

472
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 5: As I mentioned earlier, we have a lot of books

473
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 5: that are written in foreign languages. We have Sudoku books

474
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 5: and crossword puzzle books, and those often get flagged as

475
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: containing code. Oh, We've had encyclopedias of dog breeds rejected.

476
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 5: We've had art history books rejected because of nudity. Once

477
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 5: you start digging into this, the things that are rejected

478
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 5: are absolutely wild, and unfortunately, they're often based on things

479
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: like what the prison considers to be quote unquote racially

480
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: based inflammatory material, which in practice oftentimes means the banning

481
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 5: of books like the autobiography of Malcolm X and other

482
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: black history books.

483
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 4: Michelle, where should we go next with this? You've received

484
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 4: so many countless letters. Can you share what really captures

485
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 4: your heart or something that hasn't had a specific impact

486
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: on you.

487
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is I'm thinking back to all of the

488
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 5: letters that I've read during my thirteen years of work

489
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 5: with this organization, and one of the ones that continues

490
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 5: to stick with me, even though I probably read it

491
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 5: ten years ago now is there was a person who

492
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 5: wrote into us and was asking for an American Sign

493
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 5: language dictionary. And the reason that he wanted this dictionary

494
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 5: is that he said that he had been incarcerated for

495
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 5: about seven eight years by that point, and he had

496
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 5: a son and his you know, the mother of his

497
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 5: child had written to him and said that his son

498
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 5: was starting to lose his hearing, and when he was

499
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 5: going to be released in a few years, he wanted

500
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 5: to be sure that he had the skills to be

501
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 5: able to communicate with his son. Again, it just reminds

502
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 5: you that these are people. They have lives, they have families,

503
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 5: they have hopes, they have dreams. So I think a

504
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 5: lot about letters like that that we receive, either for

505
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 5: the materials or to say thank you for what they've received,

506
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 5: talk about how these books have impacted them. You know,

507
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 5: people write in sometimes they write us poems, sometimes they

508
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 5: send us drawings, sometimes they send us little crafts that

509
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 5: they do. So I've got one of these letters pulled

510
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 5: up and hold on, here we go. It's just addressed

511
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 5: dear volunteers, thank you for the books. I appreciate the

512
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 5: time and effort spent on selecting and packing these selections,

513
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: as well as the generosity of those that donate to

514
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 5: make these items free. Thank you for the skift it

515
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 5: made my week, at the very minimum, made me feel

516
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 5: like a valued human being after many experiences intended to

517
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 5: me to make me feel less. Then, and inside of

518
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 5: this letter there were these two just adorable little oregon

519
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 5: me frogs that he had fold did and taking the

520
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 5: time to enclose to send us as the symbol of

521
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: thank you for everything that he had received.

522
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 2: That's so special.

523
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, we when we get things like that, we actually

524
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 5: love to post them around our library space, all the drawings,

525
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 5: all the little arts and crafts.

526
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 7: How has being involved in this program shaped your understanding

527
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 7: of the criminal justice system?

528
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 5: It has made me more stridently assured that the way

529
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 5: that we are doing things is wrong.

530
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: Sure.

531
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, the things that we are doing to the people,

532
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 5: the ways that we are again just locking them away,

533
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 5: throwing away the key, calling that justice, I don't think

534
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 5: that's justice. I don't think that's serving anybody. And again,

535
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 5: I'm glad that the perspectives on this seem to be

536
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 5: changing as people get more awareness about the deprivations that

537
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 5: are built into the system, the exploitations that are built

538
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: into the system. And when I say that from the

539
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 5: perspective of a program like Books to Prisoners, I think

540
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 5: about the financial burdens that are put onto people, because

541
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 5: we've gotten rejection letters at Books to Prisoners where we

542
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 5: try to send in blank notebooks and the prison has

543
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 5: responded to us to say, no, we're not going to

544
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 5: allow in these blank notebooks because these notebooks are available

545
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 5: for purchase at commissary. Oh and that's just one small

546
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 5: drop in this vast pool of things that are done

547
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 5: to these people, Like the financial exploitation is a thing

548
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 5: that I could definitely talk for hours about. Just seeing

549
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 5: this all building up over the years that I've worked

550
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 5: with it frustrates me, infuriates me, and wants to make

551
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 5: me spread the words so that we can all work

552
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 5: together to build a better system.

553
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 4: If in fact, rehimbilitation, if rehimbilitation is the key to

554
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 4: this right, which I think we could all agree, is

555
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 4: it is a complicated thing. So again, sliding scale of

556
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: crimes and sliding scale of what is fair. There is

557
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 4: no question that what is happening behind bars is based

558
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: on so many things. Do you have money for a lawyer?

559
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 4: Are you of the perfect color or a gender or race?

560
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: Like?

561
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: What is the thing that makes it so disproportionate?

562
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: And it's really hard for so many to survive and

563
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 4: hopefully start anew And what do you say to critics

564
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 4: that might say, if you've taken a life, if you've

565
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: murdered somebody, we don't get a blank notebook. Is that

566
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 4: is that an answerable question? I know that's an esoteric

567
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 4: one and probably impossible, but it's something that we gnaw

568
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 4: on all day. We scratch at this itch literally all

569
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: day in our own jobs. And it's a question I

570
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: asked myself regularly because listen, I believe that this system

571
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 4: really needs improvement. Is it completely broken? Of course not.

572
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 4: Justice will prevail and goodness will prevail, but it is

573
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 4: certainly not rehabilitating to the level that I think help

574
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 4: society as a whole.

575
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: Right, So how can we help?

576
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 5: There are three main ways that we ask for support

577
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 5: in doing this work. We would love it if you

578
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 5: have a local books prisoners group and you want to

579
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 5: go and being inspired by what you've heard here today,

580
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 5: to volunteer to read some of these letters for yourself,

581
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 5: to help select books and send them out. Volunteering is

582
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 5: one of our number one asks because again, we get thousands,

583
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of letters from people every year, and

584
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 5: it probably takes us from start to finish a solid

585
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 5: half hour of work to get the package of books

586
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 5: back out the door. So we're talking about at least

587
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 5: six thousand hours of volunteer driven work. And that's just

588
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 5: for our group. And we're one of three dozen groups

589
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 5: scattered around the country who all receive letters, who all

590
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 5: need help to put the book Donations on the shelves

591
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 5: to read through the letters and get books to send

592
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 5: back to people, to go out into your communities and

593
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 5: do book drives to help us get more books to

594
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 5: help fulfill requests in the future. We also really need

595
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 5: just money. You know, each of these packages costs five

596
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 5: dollars between the wrapping materials and the shipping costs. And

597
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 5: when you're talking again at a scale of thousands of books,

598
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 5: any money that we can have that will help us

599
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 5: to serve more people or to send you know, more

600
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 5: books per package, because right now we have to think

601
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: about how many books we can realistically put into each package,

602
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 5: so that extra few dollars could mean the difference between

603
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 5: two books and three books.

604
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: M that's great, That's that is great.

605
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: How many you said, if there's if there's a local center,

606
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: how many do you know how many? How many places

607
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: around the country you.

608
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 5: Guys are There are two places that keep track of this,

609
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 5: because as I said, we're kind of always in flux

610
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 5: with the groups being volunteer driven, it means that sometimes

611
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 5: people get over capacity and they have to go gray

612
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 5: for a little while. But there are two organizations who

613
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 5: are tracking this. One of them is Prison Book Program,

614
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 5: operating out of Quincy, Massachusetts, and they have a map

615
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 5: up on their website that shows the locations of current

616
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 5: book programs. And the other one is the San Francisco

617
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 5: Public Library, who has an Expanding Access to Information for

618
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 5: Incarcerated People initiative that's running right now where they're actually

619
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 5: trying to train the next generation of people who are

620
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 5: going to be working in programs inside of prisons or

621
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 5: who are coordinating with, for example, public libraries to help

622
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 5: people who are re entering get access to the services

623
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 5: that they need. And so they also have a map

624
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 5: on their website that tracks the organizations who are currently

625
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 5: sharing this mission.

626
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 7: This is Your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy Moved

627
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 7: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We're

628
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 7: joined by Michelle Dylan from Books to Prisoners and we're

629
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 7: talking about the impact books can have on people who

630
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 7: may feel alone in prison, especially during the holidays. Right

631
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 7: around the holidays, people often talk about connection and belonging.

632
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 7: What does a book mean to someone incarcerated this time

633
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 7: of year, Michelle.

634
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 5: You have to understand that people who are incarcerated don't

635
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 5: get a lot of joy in their life necessarily, they

636
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 5: try to foster it inside of prison walls. There is

637
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 5: a lot of joy that can happen when people in

638
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 5: prisons come together and make it. But they are getting

639
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 5: a lot of support from the outside necessarily, especially if

640
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 5: they don't have loved ones on the outside who are

641
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 5: routinely in contact with them. So we are able to

642
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 5: be this lifeline for people who would otherwise be completely

643
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 5: cut off. People who have been incarcerated for thirty years,

644
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 5: for example, have people who write to us every year

645
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 5: asking for books. We've maintained these relationships with them for

646
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 5: decades now, and we're so happy that we can be

647
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 5: a part of their lives in this sustained, regular kind

648
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 5: of way and just show up for them. And we

649
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 5: do get thank you letters that say exactly that, to

650
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 5: talk about how grateful they are for the support that

651
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 5: we provided over the years. I mean, one of the

652
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 5: most impactful letters too that I remember was from a

653
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 5: person in Texas who wrote to us saying that he

654
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 5: was scheduled for execution the next month and he was

655
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: just sending letters out to all of the people and

656
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 5: the organizations who had been there for him during his time.

657
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: Wow, that's I mean that is it's.

658
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 7: Kind of speechless.

659
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 6: I know that's yeah, but that's he's kind of like

660
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 6: a like I don't know, he's wrapping it up right.

661
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: That's so powerful and your organization is changing lives one

662
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: book in person at a time. Okay, I understand that

663
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: you have a little question or quiz for us.

664
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 5: Oh really, yes, I I mean ask this question a

665
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 5: lot and very few people ever have the correct answer.

666
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 5: So the question is very simple. What do you think

667
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 5: the most common request made from incarcerated people two books

668
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 5: to prisoners might be? And again, remember there's no format

669
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 5: for people to write in. They can request anything that

670
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 5: they want. What is the most popular request.

671
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 6: I'm going to say this is Bobby. I'm going to

672
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 6: say study materials for diplomas, like ged materials.

673
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: I'm split between the Bible or a dictionary.

674
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 2: Bible.

675
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 4: The Bible's a good one, I would say, I would say,

676
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 4: for sure, I are the Bible.

677
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with J. E. G.

678
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 6: Ed materials like the sources, dictionaries, you know, those kinds

679
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 6: of things.

680
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 5: Those are all great guesses. But Courtney, you actually got

681
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 5: it right. It's a dictionary.

682
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 2: See this is why Courtney was meant also, yes, why

683
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: she meant to be? You know?

684
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 5: So twenty five percent and stick, twenty five percent of

685
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 5: our requests are for a dictionary, which I always think

686
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 5: really speaks to the level of deprivation that people are

687
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 5: experiencing inside of prison. How many of us even have

688
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 5: a dictionary on our shelves anymore? I do?

689
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 4: Oh, all right, I have thee my father gave me

690
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 4: when I graduated high school.

691
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 5: Oh, I love it, all right, Well, step aside most

692
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 5: of us. If we have a question, right, if we

693
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 5: need something to find, let us go to Google. Right,

694
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 5: we have so many other ways to find the information.

695
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 5: People who are in prison do not. So even though

696
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 5: they can ask for anything, what do they ask for?

697
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 5: They ask for a dictionary.

698
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 4: And by the way, maybe that's something that's access even prior, right,

699
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 4: like maybe had they had all the answers or the information.

700
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 2: It's such a limiting world.

701
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 4: Sometimes not everybody is brought into the born into the

702
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 4: life that has access or information. Maybe that would prevent

703
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 4: even books can even prevent being incarcerated in the first place.

704
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 4: So cychel is you know, is in motion? But man,

705
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 4: are you a cycle breaker at your core?

706
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

707
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 6: Michelle Dylan from Books to Prisoners. Thank you for the

708
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 6: incredible work you do and your organization, and for joining

709
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 6: us tonight. If you would like to learn more or

710
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 6: get involved, you can visit the organization's website at Books

711
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 6: Too Prisoners dot net. As we head into the holiday

712
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 6: we are super grateful for the people and programs that

713
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 6: bring connection, hope, and dignity to those who need it most.

714
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 7: This is True Crime Tonight. We'll be right back.

715
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

716
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 4: talk true crime all the time, So listen. A lot

717
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 4: of the cases that we've been covering for the last

718
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 4: couple of months, not only are they intense, but many

719
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 4: of them involve families, and given that we're approaching the

720
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 4: holidays and it's that time of year where family dynamics

721
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 4: are really put to the test, we really wanted to

722
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 4: explore further and really look at toxic relationships and toxic

723
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 4: dynamics and why we subject ourselves to them or let

724
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 4: them continue slightly endlessly. So my dear friend Christine from

725
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 4: The Unlocked Mind has come because she's really the expert

726
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 4: at this and also has been teaching and encouraging people

727
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 4: to challenge collect consciousness which is a very big deal,

728
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: by the way, and she's going to teach us about

729
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 4: that and also our subconscious beliefs around toxic family relationships

730
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 4: and kind of help us explore that, particularly because welcome

731
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 4: to the holidays, everybody.

732
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: It's hard to escape Christine.

733
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you, guys. Hi Courtney, I am so passionate,

734
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 8: as you know, Stephanie about collective consciousness and trying to

735
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 8: teach people to challenge their automatic thinking. And we don't

736
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 8: do that enough. So we just go into this autopilot

737
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 8: and we're believing something and we never go.

738
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: Why do I believe that? Or do I believe it?

739
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 8: One of the things I always ask people is to

740
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 8: ask themselves the question, if they weren't your family, would

741
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 8: they be your friend? I mean, process that for a minute, right.

742
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 4: I was going to say, that's why sometimes we have

743
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 4: friends that are our chosen family in many ways.

744
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 8: Exactly, but we don't do that with our family. We

745
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 8: just go, well, they are our family. We have a

746
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 8: ton of beliefs around it. We all hear blood is

747
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 8: thicker than water or I actually wrote down a whole

748
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 8: list of them that I'm sure you guys can recite.

749
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 8: You only get one family. That's just how they are.

750
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 8: You'll regret it if you walk away, if I say,

751
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 8: or no, watch what happens. That's just the way they are.

752
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 8: Or your brain is like, uh huh, what did you feel?

753
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 8: That how you engaged with me? Or that's how they

754
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 8: choose to show up. There's a nice or you only

755
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 8: get one family, or I only get one nervous system

756
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 8: that they did their best, or I'm allowed to respond

757
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 8: to the impact, not their intention, and I have the

758
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 8: whole list going.

759
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 4: It's so true because we do cover so many cases

760
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 4: that are so heavy right and specifically heavy family dynamics

761
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: that we see the most extreme versions of. You have

762
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 4: to wonder, at some point things had gone a little

763
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 4: sideways yesteryear, yet nobody put up a real boundary, and suddenly,

764
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: fast forward, the dynamic becomes even deeper and harder.

765
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 8: Well, I think people put up a boundary. They just

766
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 8: circumb to their subconscious, which was like, well, it's our

767
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 8: child one more chance, or it's our mother one more chance.

768
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 8: And we can talk about addiction and mental health and

769
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 8: compassion doesn't mean access. I can have compassion, but that

770
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 8: doesn't mean you have access to me. And right now

771
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 8: we live in this amazing time where we have amazing

772
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 8: drugs therapy clarity where if you want help, you will

773
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 8: get help or somebody will find it and make it

774
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 8: available to you. So when people tell me, oh, well

775
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 8: they have an addiction or it's mental health, I completely

776
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 8: understand that and have compassion for that. However, if that

777
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 8: person chooses to use their resources and get the help,

778
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 8: then I can make a choice to keep you in

779
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 8: my life. If not, then it's my choice to create distance,

780
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 8: which also creates safety. These elevated cases don't just happen

781
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 8: because it's the first interaction, right right, I mean, you

782
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 8: guys are in it every day. This happens because this

783
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 8: has been going on and on and on, and there

784
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 8: is no clear line between what I'll accept. And maybe

785
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 8: you don't talk to a person for ten years, well

786
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 8: that's much better than making someone angry for ten years,

787
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 8: because I just believe in putting positive out into the world.

788
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: So, if you.

789
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 8: Are around a person and you don't feel like you

790
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 8: can be the best version of yourself, that's telling you something.

791
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: If you find yourself not being the best version of yourself,

792
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: is that when kind of it's time to check in

793
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: and say Okay, is it time for me to take

794
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: a pause from this person? Or basically, how do people

795
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: know when to look at what you're saying?

796
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 8: Well, it's when someone creates stress, negativity, emotional harm, dranger, energy,

797
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 8: disrespects the boundaries that you've set, and even makes you

798
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 8: feel like you're never good enough.

799
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: That's my outline.

800
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 8: And the relationship leaves you feeling worse, not better, and

801
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 8: it's heavy, and you think about the phone call coming

802
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 8: you see you see the name on your phone, and

803
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 8: you're like, oh, that's a red flag. Red flags, So

804
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 8: paying attention to those signals. We aren't going to change

805
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 8: other people. This is very important. So I really take

806
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 8: this in because we put so much effort into trying

807
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 8: to change people. You're not going to change anyone. They

808
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 8: get to be however, they are zero judgment. And by

809
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 8: the way, if everyone could just do this, stop judging

810
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 8: people for how they're being and just honor who they

811
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 8: are and say that just doesn't work for.

812
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 2: Me, right, I love that this is true crime.

813
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: Tonight, we're on iHeartRadio Courtney Armstrong and here as always

814
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 1: with Stephanie Leidecker, and we're so excited to be talking

815
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: with transformational expert Christine Collopy, and we're talking about navigating

816
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: sort of our feelings and dealing with all of the

817
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 1: true that we do collectively, and also how to put

818
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: that into practice during the holidays. So I would love

819
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: to hear more about everything that you were saying. That

820
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: list that you read out Christine of Boundaries, Boy, it

821
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: was real black and white when you hear it, but

822
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: it all hit a bunch of nerves of oh, that

823
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: person who I feel less than every time we speak,

824
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: and just acknowledging that it is okay to not subject

825
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: yourself because perhaps you share the last name, we.

826
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 8: Share genetics and history, that doesn't give you access to

827
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 8: who I am now. Like, think about your friend in

828
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 8: third grade. Just because you were in third grade with

829
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 8: them doesn't mean they get to be your friend now.

830
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 4: Sometimes relationships are just for a season or for a reason.

831
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 9: Right.

832
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 4: I've heard you saying so many times, but how many

833
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 4: of us at some point have been in the car

834
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 4: driving to something, whether it's a work event or a

835
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 4: family situation, and it's hard.

836
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: You already have a little bit of dread.

837
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 4: Or you get in the car after whatever it is,

838
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 4: and you do you feel drained, that you're exhausted, you

839
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 4: feel like you weren't your best self.

840
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: Why did I say that? Oh I didn't mean that.

841
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 4: Or you just don't land correctly with this person because

842
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 4: you don't feel comfortable, you don't feel at ease, you

843
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 4: don't feel at peace. You know, allowing ourselves the ability

844
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 4: to say this doesn't work for me anymore, regardless of

845
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 4: the history or regardless of this is what we do

846
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:22,959
Speaker 4: every year.

847
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: I know that sounds huge.

848
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm so grateful that this is not the

849
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 4: family dynamic that I'm driving into. But at the same time,

850
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 4: it's everywhere.

851
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 8: It really plays with your mind because on a subconscious level,

852
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 8: you get that second voice, right, your secondary voice, that's

853
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 8: like that it's your dad, it's your mom, it's your son,

854
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 8: and all of that. So if they weren't your family,

855
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 8: would they be your friend's question? It bypasses guilt, it

856
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 8: bypasses history, and it bypasses the story that we've been

857
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:50,959
Speaker 8: handed again.

858
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 4: We're going to family events, people are blending families for

859
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 4: the first time. You know, there's co parenting happening, and somehow,

860
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 4: even those things that could be hard during any time

861
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 4: of year, it seems to get so exacerbated at the holidays.

862
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 4: You know, it's sometimes less about the eggnog and more

863
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 4: about just keeping your sanity.

864
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 8: I don't know about you, but birthdays are hard for

865
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 8: a lot of people. Yeah, And I always tell people

866
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 8: birthdays are hard because they only come once a year,

867
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 8: so we don't have a lot of opportunities to work

868
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 8: on that stuff other than that once a year we

869
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 8: get that trigger. So it can take five ten years

870
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 8: to heal that birthday thing because you only have to

871
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 8: deal with it once a year. So it's the same

872
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 8: thing with a Christmas like we're not thrown into family

873
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 8: obligations or guilted or whatever it is. And then that's

874
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 8: where it's my busy season. It's always my busy but

875
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 8: it's really a busy season because I always tell people

876
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 8: look for volume. The first thing I say when I

877
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 8: get on a call is where's the volume? And that

878
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 8: means look for the things that are really loud to you,

879
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 8: the things that are getting your attention. So you do

880
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 8: want to turn your awareness up. I mean it is

881
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 8: partly being aware and being an observer, not judging. Judgment

882
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 8: and observing are two different things. I'm just going to

883
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 8: stand back and observe how I feel, observe what's happening,

884
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 8: Observe how people are talking to me or not talking

885
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 8: to me, care or not care that I'm here. There's

886
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 8: nothing that's personal. You're just observing so you can heal.

887
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 8: This is about collective consciousness changing, about people having VIP

888
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 8: tickets to your life just because they gave birth to you,

889
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 8: or someone having a VIP ticket to your life just

890
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 8: because you gave birth to them. It's okay for you

891
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 8: to say, hey, listen, I want to give you an

892
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 8: invitation of my life. Let me tell you what that

893
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 8: party looks like. It's a party of kindness, celebration, happiness, support.

894
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 8: If you want to come to my party, you are invited. However,

895
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 8: if that's a party you don't want to come to,

896
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 8: it's off you're uninvited. This is a powerful, powerful question, Guys,

897
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 8: what experience did you have with me that makes you

898
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 8: feel that way?

899
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 5: Because most of the.

900
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 8: Time, eight out of ten times, if you ask someone

901
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 8: anyone that question, really they're like, oh, no experience, I

902
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 8: just feel this way, So they correct they self correct.

903
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 8: Now if there are two other percent of the time

904
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 8: you did something great, let's talk about it. What experience

905
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 8: did you have, not what did I do, but what

906
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 8: experience did you have? Totally two different things. Because if

907
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 8: I didn't mean to step on your foot, but I

908
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 8: stepped on your foot, I still stepped on your foot,

909
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 8: it doesn't dismiss it because I didn't mean to. Right,

910
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 8: So again, I'm going to repeat that question because I

911
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 8: think it's so important. What experience did you have with

912
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 8: me that makes you feel that way?

913
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: Pretty simple? I love that so much.

914
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said it twice because I do want

915
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 1: to hold on to that, and honestly, I want to

916
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: turn that mirror onto myself, probably about four different times

917
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: of a day, because you're saying that makes me think

918
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: of all the times that I walk into name a

919
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 1: situation in life with you know, expectations that are mine.

920
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: So I think that's really interesting both ways.

921
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 8: And it creates a safe space in the other person's

922
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 8: subconscious mind. You aren't speaking to that person, you're speaking

923
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 8: to all of that person's experiences.

924
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: Do we want to say anything more about this important

925
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: subject of the collective consciousness?

926
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 8: I want to say one more thing because I think

927
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 8: it's really important to know that long before we're conscious

928
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 8: enough to actually question anything, we're having experiences teach us

929
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 8: subconsciously what is true? Think about that. When I'm three,

930
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 8: I'm not going, hey, I wonder what the truth is

931
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,959
Speaker 8: about this? Right, We're being fed experiences that other people

932
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 8: are having as truth. So that's why our subconsciousness like,

933
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 8: let's stay safe in the world and put this data

934
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 8: in here so that we can stay safe. The subconscious

935
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,439
Speaker 8: job is to keep us safe. Now how it keeps

936
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 8: us safe isn't so great, because it keeps us safe

937
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 8: based on our data that we were given. And so

938
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 8: we together with that end collective consciousness, like let's just

939
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 8: start questioning things.

940
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 4: It's also fun just knowing that we're allowed to take

941
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 4: stock and kind of look within a little bit, you know,

942
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 4: the perfect example and then I'll zip it. But I

943
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 4: think I learned this from you. Christine is like, yeah,

944
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 4: when you're when you look at your phone, whether this

945
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 4: is at home or at work or wherever. You know,

946
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: we're all attached to our phones. You know when that

947
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 4: phone rains or you get the text, and yeah, you

948
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 4: get that thing in your heart of like, well, that

949
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 4: is such a tell.

950
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 2: And like starting to really be aware of those who.

951
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 4: A trigger you or where you feel some low key dread,

952
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 4: and perhaps it's unnecessary dread that you're allowing into your

953
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 4: life and being able to like slowly sift through and

954
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 4: make sure that the people that are in constant access

955
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 4: to you or the people that have constant access to you.

956
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: Do you imagine how great the world is if the

957
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 4: people in your immediate circle built you up, it made

958
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 4: you feel strong and capable in the world.

959
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 8: Well, and I think, listen to your body. Do I

960
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 8: contract or expand? So if I say I have to

961
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 8: go to work, it just is heavy. If I say

962
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 8: I'm choosing to go to work, I'm expanding because your

963
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 8: subconscious mind is going, why are you choosing that? Because

964
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 8: I like a house and a car and food and

965
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,919
Speaker 8: all the things, and it's like, yeah, go to work.

966
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 8: It's so different. So, yes, listen to your body. Is

967
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 8: it contracting or is it expanding? It's going to kind

968
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 8: of give you the cues. And I think Stephanie you

969
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 8: said something like are the people around you making you

970
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 8: feel good? It really is your job to put yourself

971
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 8: around people that make you feel good. So again, we're

972
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 8: not changing anyone. It's not our mission. We're observing the

973
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 8: way we feel and we're going wait, because love and

974
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 8: hate don't live together, faith and fear don't live together.

975
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 8: So I'm going to have to choose a friend group, right,

976
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 8: Like what friend and group do I feel expansive in?

977
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 8: And how do I just stay in that friend group

978
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 8: but without judgment or shame or blame. Let people be

979
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 8: who they are and then choose to put yourself where

980
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 8: you feel the best version of yourself and you feel

981
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 8: like you can grow. Well, all of a sudden, I'm

982
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 8: growing and thriving because I separated myself from that friend group.

983
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 4: The family member or friend that always makes you wear

984
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 4: your past, right, Like, oh, here's that like dirty old

985
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 4: jacket that we're going to make you wear at dinner

986
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 4: because that's our like dynamic who hits on that like.

987
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: Fresh energy, fresh s energy.

988
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 4: Well, I can't believe we're out of time physically possible,

989
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 4: you know. Wishing you such an incredible holiday obviously and

990
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 4: for you too.

991
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 8: I was so excited that you guys invited me on

992
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 8: this show because if I could give some kind of

993
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 8: gift to people, it would be giving the gift of

994
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 8: just creating your future.

995
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: It really is up to you. If you're not changing it,

996
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: you're choosing it. Remember that if you're not changing it,

997
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: you're choosing it. I love that.

998
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: Okay, twenty twenty six, We're booking the next time we

999
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: spek because I'm going to need to really marinate on that,

1000
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: Christine to thank you so much.

1001
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 8: Thank you so much for having me and just allowing

1002
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 8: me to share this with people. Before we end, I

1003
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 8: want to be very clear that this is only part

1004
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 8: one of this conversation. Here's my suggestion this year, get

1005
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 8: out of autopilot collective consciousness when you're going into the holidays,

1006
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 8: and go in as an observer. Listen to the volume

1007
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 8: and the mind chatter. Notice what keeps coming up, because

1008
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 8: that's what wants to heal. I'm so excited to come

1009
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 8: back to this after the holidays.

1010
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: For anyone who wants to find Christine Colopy, our transformational

1011
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: expert extraordinaire and creator of the Unlocked Mind. Christine is

1012
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: at the unlockedmind dot com and listen stick around because

1013
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: coming up you're going to meet some people behind True

1014
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: Crime Tonight and hear some fascinating stories about how they

1015
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: found their way into true crime and became part of

1016
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: this team. Stay with us True Crime Tonight.

1017
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 4: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, We're talking true

1018
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 4: crime all the time, and listen. As twenty twenty five

1019
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 4: finally winds down, we wanted to take a quick moment

1020
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 4: to reflect and give some gratitude and especially highlight the

1021
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,479
Speaker 4: team who works so hard to bring this show to

1022
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 4: you every single night. This is a tight crew, and

1023
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 4: we work together in sync. We're small but mighty, and

1024
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 4: I have.

1025
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: The benefit of working with each of you every single.

1026
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 4: Day, and I think it's really helpful for anyone listening

1027
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 4: to have just a little bit more access to each

1028
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 4: of you individually.

1029
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: So where should we begin, kids, Let's start with Gabe.

1030
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 4: Gabe basically runs so many things at KT Studios and

1031
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 4: also helped launch this show.

1032
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: He also helped pitch this project. His project was in

1033
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: the works for many, many years, so long time coming.

1034
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: And Gabe who keeps the.

1035
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 4: Trains on the tracks behind the scenes in every category,

1036
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 4: what do.

1037
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 2: You think, Gabe que the smoke machine?

1038
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 4: Gabe, was there some one thing about twenty twenty five

1039
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 4: specifically that was either a thorn or something that was extraordinary?

1040
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 10: Shout out to Itza, my sister. A big goal of

1041
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 10: hers was to move out of our family home and

1042
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 10: this year we finally made it work, so as awesome.

1043
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 10: That was a big, big win for us. And you

1044
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 10: know it only took two and a half years in

1045
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 10: the making, but that was a big accomplishment on our end.

1046
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 10: And you know it's for kind of like a you

1047
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 10: can say, the Three Musketeers, so we're a great trio.

1048
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 10: So that was a big, big thing.

1049
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 2: So a huge trio.

1050
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 4: And I might add we say this about Gabe all

1051
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 4: the time Courtney and I met him. We hired him

1052
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 4: pretty instantly, even though there were many many applicants, but

1053
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 4: we didn't know Gabe until his first day.

1054
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 2: And man, we say this all the time.

1055
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 4: First of all, Gabe knows all and boy was he

1056
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 4: raised great, so your parents should be so proud. And

1057
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 4: he's also nuts saying is that he moved sister to

1058
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 4: Hollywood and they all lived together. We met Gabe and

1059
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 4: it was love at first sight. Courtney runs a very

1060
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 4: tight ship and she was like heading up all of

1061
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 4: the application process and she interviewed so so many. I

1062
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 4: came in for round two and one thing I can

1063
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 4: say is when court and I agree on the person,

1064
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 4: it's always right.

1065
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 10: Yes, And I'm forever in their debt so and then.

1066
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 2: We have Ava Caplin.

1067
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 4: Ava Paplin, I will say, was also you know, studying

1068
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 4: abroad and living abroad and about to go get her

1069
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,919
Speaker 4: masters and kind of just wanted to feel it out

1070
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 4: for the summer and see if Kat or just generally speaking,

1071
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 4: true crime was in your wheelhouse.

1072
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 2: And then she kicked the door down. Keeps us all

1073
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: in line all day.

1074
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 11: OHI guys, Oh my god.

1075
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 9: I love seeing everyone's face. I'm so happy to be here.

1076
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 9: This show completely changed my life. I was planning on

1077
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 9: moving to London and getting a master's degree in journalism

1078
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 9: and now I live in Booklington and work on this show.

1079
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 9: So it's kind of awesome. But I wouldn't want it

1080
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 9: any other way. And yeah, twenty twenty five was then

1081
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 9: a crazy year. I spent the first half living in

1082
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 9: France and now here I am. I still have my

1083
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 9: I'm wearing my black turtleneck as like an homage to

1084
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 9: my past.

1085
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 2: Too, because we should be in Paris right now.

1086
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 11: I know we deserve it. I feel like, I don't know,

1087
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 11: twenty twenty five was in an awesome year.

1088
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 9: I feel like I found such a home, such a

1089
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 9: vision for my future that I didn't have Even like

1090
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 9: six months ago, I had no idea what I was

1091
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 9: going to do with my life.

1092
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 11: I didn't think I was going to be living in America.

1093
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 9: So this is kind of awesome and something just like

1094
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 9: about the show I was just thinking about, like in

1095
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 9: terms of every day when I'm researching these cases and

1096
01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 9: like what am I.

1097
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 11: Learning and what am I getting out it? And I

1098
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 11: have realized that, like my favorite part of True.

1099
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 9: Crime is I love like the legal stuff, Like my

1100
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 9: favorite stuff that we do is the trial watches and

1101
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 9: like learning about just how the legal system operates. I

1102
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 9: honestly feel like I'm in law school and like I

1103
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 9: could take the ELSA in the bar tomorrow and pass.

1104
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 9: At this point, probably could like today, like just a

1105
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 9: couple like thirty minutes ago, I was reading like California

1106
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 9: Criminal Penal Codes, trying to like.

1107
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: Suck some stuff out.

1108
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,439
Speaker 9: So it's just been really fun to kind of learn

1109
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 9: that I have this interest that I didn't even know

1110
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 9: I had before.

1111
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 11: I know, I'm like, maybe I should go to law school.

1112
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: That's next for all of us. I'm gonna go. We

1113
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 2: can be roommates.

1114
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 9: Oh my god, that'd be so fun, Like we can

1115
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 9: be freshmen live on the dorm.

1116
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 2: The reality show in that for sure be party pants.

1117
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 11: As Stephanie would say.

1118
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 2: That's my girl.

1119
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 4: And just so the structure everyone knows, because we make

1120
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 4: this show at night, there's you know, a daytime team

1121
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 4: and Ava and then Whitney Galloway in Taha house and

1122
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 4: then Taha stays with us for the night, so we

1123
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 4: have sort of all hands on deck for every coast

1124
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 4: to make sure that we're getting the most current and

1125
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 4: up to date news. And you guys do such a

1126
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 4: great job. It's a real line daily, so hats off.

1127
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1128
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 12: Guys love it and Eva does so much so you

1129
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 12: are such a rock star. She puts so much together

1130
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 12: with all of these stories that every day, every detail,

1131
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 12: every day we have our for everyone listening, we have

1132
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 12: our meetings where we kind of go over what the

1133
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 12: show is going to be that night, and every single

1134
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 12: host has a different question that Ava then digs into

1135
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 12: and finds more. So she's a rock star. So I

1136
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 12: appreciate everything you do and she puts up.

1137
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 2: With me and I email her alien.

1138
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 4: And to that end, you know, it's really important to

1139
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 4: research from all angles, so you know, this is not

1140
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 4: a show that has a POV or a certain agenda

1141
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 4: by any means. So we want to make sure that

1142
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 4: we're always getting the facts right, and to do that

1143
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 4: it's not such a simple task. You have to sort

1144
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 4: of read the totality of everything that's out there on

1145
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 4: all sides of the conversation, so be able to pull

1146
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 4: that off. And Whitney Galloway, who's probably the newest to

1147
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 4: the team, but it feels like you ever you know,

1148
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 4: she joined and honestly has a compassion level and an

1149
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 4: understanding of sort of what happens in the beehive very

1150
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 4: you know, uniquely because a she's been in one of

1151
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 4: our documentaries and also worked on that documentary and has

1152
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 4: brought a whole new layer and is now doing all

1153
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,439
Speaker 4: the research for the whole country, making sure that we're

1154
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 4: not just covering the stories that are hitting the mainstream

1155
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 4: news media, but making sure that we're also touching on

1156
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 4: stories in all parts of the country, especially some of

1157
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,439
Speaker 4: the ones that don't get as much coverage. So that's

1158
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 4: also a real initiative for the new year as well.

1159
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 2: Whitney tell us everything, Oh.

1160
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 13: Gosh, I get so nervous when I do these This

1161
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 13: is why I don't speak on the on the podcast.

1162
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 13: I mean, I'm just grateful to be here. I'm grateful

1163
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 13: for the opportunity, not enough. Why don't I just get

1164
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 13: emotional when I talk to you by stop it it

1165
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 13: I cry on our phone calls. I'm just maybe it's

1166
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 13: just my personality at this point. Yeah, I mean, I

1167
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 13: always do a high and a low for the end

1168
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,759
Speaker 13: of the year, So like, what are my high was? Honestly,

1169
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 13: and I'm not just saying this because it's like we're

1170
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 13: on with you guys, but like getting this job and

1171
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 13: having like it opened up so many opportunities for me

1172
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 13: to be like a better mom.

1173
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: I'm able to be there.

1174
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 13: For my kids, and like my low obviously is my

1175
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 13: husband being deployed. So I'm grateful and so many ways

1176
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 13: to the you guys, and you guys have really made

1177
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 13: me feel like I'm part of a team, and I

1178
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 13: just I can't think you guys in the.

1179
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 4: You Whitney's actually being modest in terms of the reality

1180
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 4: of what she's experience and swing right now as a

1181
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 4: young mom, which is, you know, her incredible husband Kyle

1182
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 4: has been deployed and that could be up for a year,

1183
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 4: so she's really taken it like such a chance. This

1184
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 4: just happened around Thanksgiving, so it's very very new, and

1185
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 4: just watching you from a distance navigate a really tough

1186
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 4: situation has been really, really inspiring.

1187
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 13: I might hide it well that I can, but there's

1188
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 13: days I'm like, oh no.

1189
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 2: Of course that's totally human and appropriate.

1190
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 4: Well, here's to you know, a safe return for your

1191
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 4: husband and a healthy return for your husband. And we're

1192
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:40,799
Speaker 4: sending so much love his way.

1193
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1194
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 13: I appreciate you guys so much. I don't think I

1195
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 13: expressed it enough, but I do.

1196
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 4: You're a gem. You're a gem and a dream. And

1197
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 4: then we have Taha House in Taha back a thousand

1198
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 4: years job in television was working for Taha. I was

1199
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 4: his intern for a hot minute, And when this show

1200
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 4: came to be, Taha was always in the mind of

1201
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 4: like the type of producer we would be looking for,

1202
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 4: really like somebody with an A plus plus personality who

1203
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 4: lives and breathes the news, who doesn't necessarily even have

1204
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 4: to be a true crime officionado, but somebody who really

1205
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 4: just watches what's happening in real time and he has

1206
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 4: the greatest manner, as you guys all know of anybody alive.

1207
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 2: I used to imitate Taayzan. Oh shoot. I would do

1208
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 2: these Taha impressions for this infamous person that nobody had

1209
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 2: ever met before. And just by coincidence, when we finally

1210
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 2: got the green light for.

1211
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 4: This show to happen, Taha just happened to reach out

1212
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 4: and was like, oh yeah, after decades of not being available,

1213
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 4: I am if you have something like.

1214
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,839
Speaker 2: I want a candid camera right now, like you're the vision.

1215
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I have the perfect scenario for you. That

1216
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,599
Speaker 2: was wild for you.

1217
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 6: And not only is he so good, you know, he's

1218
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,640
Speaker 6: so patient kind just like you said stuff, He's got

1219
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 6: a great manner, but he's so organized. He kind of

1220
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 6: is like the rudder of the ship. He steers us

1221
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 6: all right in the right direction.

1222
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 2: Now you're gonna like I'm I mean, I've I've.

1223
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,640
Speaker 6: Worked with a lot of producers and ta you you're incredible.

1224
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 12: Oh well, I have an incredible team to work with

1225
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 12: for starters.

1226
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 2: So you guys are.

1227
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 12: Brilliant and you guys, I mean, like Aba was saying earlier,

1228
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 12: everyone throws out these great stories, so you make the

1229
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,640
Speaker 12: job easy for me. But going back to what Stephanie

1230
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,560
Speaker 12: said earlier, it was funny when you first mentioned the

1231
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 12: job and talked to me about it, and you're like,

1232
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 12: I'm going to tell you honestly, it's going to be

1233
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 12: a crazy job.

1234
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 2: It's going to be wild, but it's going.

1235
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 9: To be fun.

1236
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 12: And guess what it is all of those things, like every.

1237
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 11: Day it's crazy, it's wild.

1238
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:51,879
Speaker 2: But it's such a blast.

1239
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 12: We end the show and I'm like, this was so

1240
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,639
Speaker 12: much fun, and so your point earlier, I was concerned

1241
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 12: because I didn't know true crime the way I thought, Gosh,

1242
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 12: these hosts know every detail about Brian Coberger and Undy.

1243
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 2: I don't know them.

1244
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 12: But positive thinking. Stephanie, she's always the most positive person,

1245
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 12: like she can find the good and everything. She said,

1246
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 12: that's an asset because there are listeners out there who

1247
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 12: may not know everything about Ted Bundy or Brian Coburger.

1248
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 12: You can be that person that we can springboard and

1249
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 12: bounce those ideas off of. So it has been such

1250
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 12: a wonderful fit. And you guys, I mean literally, I

1251
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 12: know we all say it, but I really truly mean it.

1252
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 12: Every night when it ends, I'm like, that was so

1253
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 12: much fun. It doesn't really feel like work when we're

1254
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 12: doing the show live because we're all having such a

1255
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 12: good time, and that's if we're talking our highs and lows.

1256
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 12: That has truly been my high this year that I

1257
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 12: got to meet all of you this year work with you,

1258
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 12: and I'm going to end on that because I truly

1259
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 12: love working with you guys. You guys are so much

1260
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 12: fun and I've learned more about true crime than I

1261
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:56,879
Speaker 12: ever thought I would, even.

1262
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 2: Now you're an expert.

1263
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 4: Because again, not to get too into how this it

1264
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 4: is made, but it is helpful to have somebody who says,

1265
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 4: what does that mean exactly? Sometimes really assumptions, you know,

1266
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 4: or we start talking and get a little loss in

1267
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 4: the sauce and details and somebody listening for the first

1268
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 4: time might not at all know what we're talking about.

1269
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 4: So it's helpful to have somebody to keep us a

1270
01:13:17,080 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 4: little bit on track at the bare minimum. And Taha,

1271
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 4: just like Whitney, just like Abe, just like Ava, they

1272
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 4: are a giggle even though we're.

1273
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 2: Talking about difficult things.

1274
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 4: These are people people ask me this all the time,

1275
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 4: do you guys really love each other? And I know

1276
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 4: that's a loaded question, but I can just speak all

1277
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 4: of us, Yes is the answer, because you know, it's

1278
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 4: a tight team, and it is every day is another

1279
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 4: set of situations or problems or you know, how often

1280
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:47,679
Speaker 4: have we started the show and had to throw away

1281
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 4: everything we thought we were going to do news or whatever.

1282
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 4: And you keep it so fun and I think everybody

1283
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 4: keeps it light despite the dark that we're talking about.

1284
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: Look, everybody's getting everyone emotional, now make it.

1285
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 4: I can't choose between Courtney and body who wants to

1286
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 4: go first.

1287
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 11: I just want to say one more thing about Taha.

1288
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 9: When when I was working from my childhood home this summer,

1289
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 9: my mom would always overhear my conversations on the phone

1290
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 9: with Taha every morning, and every time we hung up,

1291
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:21,799
Speaker 9: she would say to me, is to have the nicest

1292
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 9: person alive? And every time I would be like yes.

1293
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 9: At one time she asked me, is he always like that?

1294
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 2: Or is it?

1295
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 11: Is he fake? And I was like, no, he's always

1296
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 11: like that.

1297
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 9: And so now it's like our new standard for like

1298
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 9: how nice someone is. It's like, are they as nice

1299
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 9: as Tahamo? The answer is always no, like the bar

1300
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 9: has been set.

1301
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 4: The bar has been set fake because he was that

1302
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 4: way always.

1303
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:49,879
Speaker 2: I can say, this is so.

1304
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 12: Funny and even with I like raise my voice about something.

1305
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 12: I feel like, oh that sounded so mean, and everyone's

1306
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 12: like like say, like, can you lower your audio like anyway,

1307
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 12: but hold of the story. But all right, it's between

1308
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 12: Courtney and Body because I'm dying to hear what they

1309
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 12: have to say.

1310
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 1: I will be brief, but we'll go around just in

1311
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,600
Speaker 1: what I believe was the order of Gabe, just to

1312
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 1: underline and echo everything that Stephanie said in your dependability

1313
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:23,480
Speaker 1: and your just capacity to be so responsible and responsive

1314
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 1: and thorough and get everything done until it's done, which

1315
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: is a.

1316
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 2: Quality that is hugely valued.

1317
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 1: So you're awesome, beyond awesome, and thank you, thank you.

1318
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 2: Lately, it's by the way, I want to give a

1319
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 2: shout out to Gabe for late.

1320
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 1: I would get done with the show certain times, start

1321
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: some work and Gabe would finish it.

1322
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 2: So you're really a super trouper.

1323
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: And then Eva, yeah, your tenacity you can jumped in

1324
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: both feet guns blazing. I've freaking loved it and love

1325
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 1: it now. You are such like a powerhouse and ab it.

1326
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 1: It's a really great way to be and you do

1327
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: a really hard job thoroughly. You were out like one

1328
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,680
Speaker 1: day or two days and I tried to help do

1329
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 1: your job and it was a really.

1330
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 2: Tough It's a lot.

1331
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, you lied together, couldn't really do it exactly.

1332
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, thank you.

1333
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 11: That means a lot to me.

1334
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:25,679
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1335
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: Listen, stick around after the commercial break. We have much

1336
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 1: much more with the whole team. Stay with us True

1337
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: Crime Tonight.

1338
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1339
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 4: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here just

1340
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:53,759
Speaker 4: two days before Christmas with Body Move In and Courtney

1341
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 4: Armstrong my holiday gems. We wanted to take a quick

1342
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 4: moment to reflect and give some attitude and especially highlight

1343
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 4: the team who works so hard to bring this show

1344
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 4: to you every single night, and we work together in sync.

1345
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 2: We're small but mighty, It's true.

1346
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: And then Whitney everything, Oh my gosh, from you know

1347
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 1: that first day when you didn't know who these two

1348
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 1: weirdos were, when Stephanie and I came upon you, and

1349
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: you have just been such a bright and tender and

1350
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:30,639
Speaker 1: lovely spot. And also having the luxury of being able

1351
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 1: to work with you and see how your strive for

1352
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: excellence is really admirable and I think gets people really far.

1353
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 2: So you have that in spades and it's awesome. We said,

1354
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,720
Speaker 2: we met Whitney Galloway. We're gonna know her forever.

1355
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 13: You know, I actually real quick, I was literally thinking

1356
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,960
Speaker 13: of me sitting on the swing and you guys pulling

1357
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:55,639
Speaker 13: up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe

1358
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 13: I'd meeting these two strangers. And now it's like, this

1359
01:17:58,840 --> 01:17:59,520
Speaker 13: is crazy.

1360
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 4: And just to add some context to that, there was

1361
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 4: a documentary that we were working on.

1362
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 2: We were hoping that.

1363
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 4: Whitney would participate because she was very close to the case.

1364
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 4: And when we do that, you know, you go to

1365
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 4: the location and introduce yourself. But like again, you have

1366
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 4: perfect strangers, Courtney and I coming to your home to

1367
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 4: you know, talk in person and you know, kind of

1368
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 4: discuss the project and you know, see if there's a

1369
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 4: fit right. You'd never want to make anybody feel uncomfortable.

1370
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 4: This is before cameras or anything. And I feel like

1371
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 4: Whitney was sitting on that beautiful little swing and she's

1372
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 4: you know, that hair is so beautiful, and she had

1373
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,120
Speaker 4: her beautiful little daughter, and I think we just like

1374
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 4: hung and talk like humans for many hours and it

1375
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 4: was sort of like, listen, regardless of what happens with

1376
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:46,520
Speaker 4: the documentary.

1377
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 2: You can choose yes, you can choose no, but.

1378
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 4: We're going to know you forever and Courtney and I

1379
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 4: have said that so many times. So just having you

1380
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 4: here right now seems so serendipitously perfect.

1381
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 5: Make me cry.

1382
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 1: And Taha again, I will not echo everything except to

1383
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: say my imitation is how unfortunate, which Taha will use

1384
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 1: to describe he had to reacting to. And you are

1385
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: everything that was said before. Again I want to say

1386
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 1: double and beyond and body boo, how far we've come from,

1387
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 1: as Stephanie has laid out, you know, the first.

1388
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 2: Meeting in that green room and fan you know, fan.

1389
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 1: Girling and being nervous to get to see you every

1390
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 1: night and you know, face to face every night. It's

1391
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,640
Speaker 1: so cool, and you're just your mind is amazing and

1392
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: you're wicked smart and you're so insightful, and you're also

1393
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,600
Speaker 1: just jump in with everything, as Ava saying, just you know,

1394
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 1: greasing the tracks and making it happen, and your answers

1395
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 1: always yes, and you're just a really a cool human

1396
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 1: to know, and I'm like, thank you to know you

1397
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: and lucky to know you.

1398
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 2: And then Stephanie Idecker Good agree, it's been a long

1399
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 2: time together.

1400
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: It's been a long time together, and those that two

1401
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: weeks start here we are.

1402
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 2: I never could have imagined it.

1403
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: And this show, as Stephanie mentioned, was a long time coming,

1404
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: and that's an understatement. It was like pushing molasses up

1405
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 1: a sand hill, which Stephanie did with undying enthusiasm, which

1406
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 1: is how she attacks and approach, not even approaches life,

1407
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 1: attacks life and is there for life. No, and really,

1408
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: over many many years and as you said, in many

1409
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:50,600
Speaker 1: many strange rooms and every kind of circumstance, you're so

1410
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 1: profoundly yourself, and you are so positive and capable and

1411
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,679
Speaker 1: smart and strategic and lovely.

1412
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 2: You are all of those things things in spades.

1413
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: And I really I'm just also really just lucky to

1414
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: know you the way I do, and I'm so glad

1415
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:09,719
Speaker 1: that we get to do this together.

1416
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 2: Long time coming is right. One time.

1417
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 4: I have one story about Courtney Armstrong, just one little aside.

1418
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 4: So Courtney and I were producers, and like I said,

1419
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 4: from historically speaking, you know, she was I was working

1420
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 4: someplace and needed to hire somebody for two weeks and

1421
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 4: just to get me through like a little crunch time,

1422
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 4: and enter Courtney Armstrong. Obviously that has never changed. That

1423
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,640
Speaker 4: two weeks turned into you know, well over a decade.

1424
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,599
Speaker 4: And you know Courtney, we always say is the tough one,

1425
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 4: like she just kind of calls it like it is.

1426
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 4: She's just gonna keep the train on the tracks, keep

1427
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 4: the train on the tracks.

1428
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 2: And she and I were both always producers.

1429
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 4: And then one day sometime during COVID, she discloses that

1430
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 4: her dream job would be to be a narrator on audiobooks.

1431
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 2: Audiobooks So huh, by.

1432
01:21:57,680 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 4: The way, I thought I knew Courtney so well, I

1433
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 4: was like, that's your dream, that is sort of the

1434
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 4: good goal.

1435
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:04,799
Speaker 2: Well guess what we make things for a living.

1436
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 4: And suddenly Courtney becomes the voice of the Piked and

1437
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 4: Massacre her very first time and obviously was a mega hit,

1438
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:16,800
Speaker 4: and has now become the voice of all of our podcasts,

1439
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 4: virtually all of them.

1440
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,839
Speaker 2: At the bare minimum, nobody does it better than Courtney.

1441
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 4: And yes we're all on the podcast in different capacities,

1442
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 4: but Courtney's voice really became the bedrock. And again now

1443
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 4: she's like, oh, I don't make those TV shows anymore.

1444
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 4: I'm talent and nan is she ever? So welcome to

1445
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight. And then Courtney Armstrong at the hell

1446
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,759
Speaker 4: makes perfect sense totally here we are.

1447
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 7: Well, how am I supposed to follow Courtney?

1448
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 2: She did so well. I'm a tough positive like tough

1449
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 2: times good times. You know, it's been hard, whatever has

1450
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 2: been good.

1451
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, twenty five has been a stay a stellar year

1452
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 6: for me. The highlight of the is obviously getting to

1453
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:03,560
Speaker 6: launch the show. You know, it was many years and

1454
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:05,679
Speaker 6: then making as Stephanie said, I'd get a call every

1455
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 6: few months.

1456
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 2: It's still being worked and I promise, I promise.

1457
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,799
Speaker 6: Okay Stephanie, Okay, you know, but no, I mean obviously

1458
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 6: working with you guys and getting to know you and

1459
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 6: you know, meeting some of you for the first time,

1460
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 6: and being so impressed by all of you, and listen,

1461
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 6: I'm hard to impress, like for real, so I'm very

1462
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 6: impressed with all of you. So that's my high I

1463
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 6: didn't really have any lows. I'm not gonna, you know,

1464
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 6: do anything, but I did write a little holiday greeting

1465
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 6: to my True Crime Tonight family, which includes all of

1466
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 6: you here and all the listeners.

1467
01:23:41,360 --> 01:23:41,680
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1468
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 6: For writing with us through the timelines, the receipts, and

1469
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,840
Speaker 6: the chaos. Rest up, protect your metadata, trust your instincts,

1470
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:51,160
Speaker 6: and we'll see you in the new year. Same Mike's

1471
01:23:51,439 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 6: Deeper Dives.

1472
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

1473
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, this has been a wild, wild year. Some

1474
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 4: of the highs are undeniable and some of the lows are.

1475
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:12,599
Speaker 2: We're real this year, you.

1476
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:14,760
Speaker 4: Know, I think this year started kind of with a

1477
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 4: bit of a bang. My dog died, as you guys

1478
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 4: have heard so much about. I had just moved into

1479
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 4: a new house and obviously we know what happened to

1480
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 4: that in the Palisades and through that.

1481
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 2: Honestly, I would say probably, I don't know.

1482
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 4: February March, this time last year felt a little hard,

1483
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 4: like the walls felt like they were closing in. I

1484
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:38,559
Speaker 4: was living in a temporary situation, thankfully, But I don't know.

1485
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 4: This is the show that kind of brought me back

1486
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 4: to life, if I'm honest. You know, True Crime Tonight,

1487
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 4: when it kicked in, when we really started getting serious

1488
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 4: about its launch, I don't know, the fun kicked in

1489
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 4: again and things felt funny again, and this group together

1490
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 4: just some solid laughter even while talking about such difficult

1491
01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 4: things I think became a real lifeline.

1492
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 2: For me now a whole new life and a whole

1493
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 2: new place. And I love anybody listening.

1494
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 4: We are so so grateful for your talkbacks and for

1495
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 4: your dms and for your smart, smart questions. They're so impressive.

1496
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 4: It feels like we're building a community and it doesn't

1497
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:18,599
Speaker 4: feel like a show.

1498
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 2: It feels like we're all in it together.

1499
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 4: And I think that's the important piece of what I

1500
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:25,639
Speaker 4: think twenty twenty six will have in store for.

1501
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 2: Us is more and a little more.

1502
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,160
Speaker 4: I love that, you know, two of the voices that

1503
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 4: you hear quite a bit are Sam and Adam. Obviously

1504
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 4: they're in the control room. Their iHeart greatness. And you know,

1505
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 4: we all met when the show was launching, and boy,

1506
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 4: I think we could all agree what a giggle that

1507
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:49,679
Speaker 4: start was. And we were really bad, and we got

1508
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,759
Speaker 4: the benefit of meeting Sam and Adam, and I would

1509
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 4: like to say it was love at first sight. And

1510
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 4: we have been here together every night for many hours since,

1511
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 4: and starting with Adam, Adam tell us everything the best

1512
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:04,559
Speaker 4: and worst of your twenty and twenty five.

1513
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 14: Oh boy, well, I mean it's been a pleasure coming

1514
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 14: on with you guys, and I can't believe we've been

1515
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 14: doing it for I don't know, like seven months now

1516
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:14,000
Speaker 14: or something.

1517
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 2: It sure has been.

1518
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 14: It's flown by, and it's been great.

1519
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1520
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 14: It is a pleasure working with you guys, and you're

1521
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,760
Speaker 14: all very kind. It's a fun atmosphere to be in.

1522
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 14: So I'm grateful for this job, For starting this job.

1523
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 14: This year, I haven't done a whole lot personally. I mean,

1524
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 14: I guess I have little music projects going on and stuff.

1525
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 14: We played a couple of fun shows this year and

1526
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 14: so that was.

1527
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: Never talk about.

1528
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 4: Also, we've been talking about getting a True Crime Tonight

1529
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 4: band started. That's right, and you know Adam has been

1530
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 4: cheating on us because he's already out and about doing

1531
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 4: gigs undercover.

1532
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, I have plenty of time for the True

1533
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 14: Crime Tonight band as well, you know, so we can

1534
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 14: set some time aside for that.

1535
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 2: Let's get that started in the new year.

1536
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 4: I hear some music cues in our future and assured

1537
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 4: there have been some very tough moments. You know, with

1538
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 4: a live show, lots of things can go right and

1539
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 4: lots of things can go wrong, and Sam and Adam

1540
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 4: have to shoulder all of that no matter what, the

1541
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 4: show always goes on and you guys make even the

1542
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 4: sticky situations really fun.

1543
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:21,559
Speaker 14: Well, I appreciate that we try our best over here.

1544
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 14: It gets chaotic, that's for sure, but hopefully, hopefully the

1545
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 14: listeners don't realize that. Hopefully it all sounds great all

1546
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:28,880
Speaker 14: the time.

1547
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 4: So all right, Sam, over there, go ahead, you're next

1548
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 4: right far away. Yeah, so listen, Sam also keeping us

1549
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,640
Speaker 4: all in check, keeping the train on the tracks. This

1550
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five has been a beautiful time because we've

1551
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 4: gotten to meet you guys, and I feel like we

1552
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,519
Speaker 4: all meshed very very quickly and have had our fair

1553
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 4: share of giggles and hard times too. We've all been

1554
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 4: so affected by some of the cases that we followed,

1555
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 4: and you guys jumped right in and have such great

1556
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,600
Speaker 4: insight all the time. So, you know, Sam specifically, have

1557
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 4: there been any lows or any highs that you want

1558
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 4: to share.

1559
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 15: About your year just not only just starting this job,

1560
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 15: but also just kind of figuring out myself, like from

1561
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 15: a personal growth, just trying to develop since ever since

1562
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 15: I moved to LA it's trying to better adults or

1563
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 15: functioning adults.

1564
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 2: That it was a really good functioning adult.

1565
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 15: Oh thanks. I like to think I'm somewhat functioning and

1566
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 15: just like being part of the show. Like I before

1567
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 15: we did the show, I knew nothing about true crime

1568
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 15: and I didn't even know where to start. And I

1569
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 15: feel like we've kind of gone over everything, and from

1570
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 15: like the murder parts to the like the legal side,

1571
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 15: to like everything, so everything's been very educational and on

1572
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 15: the low end, Like we kind of went over how

1573
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 15: like Ozzie died and that was like a personal thing

1574
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 15: for me because he was like my hero ever since

1575
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 15: I was sixteen and to like go through like my

1576
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:06,800
Speaker 15: life and he's also like not that far from like

1577
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 15: my own dad's age. So it's one of those things

1578
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 15: where I realize when you get older and people that

1579
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 15: have been around through your whole life and then like

1580
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 15: they're slowly going, but then you just enjoy the memories exactly.

1581
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 4: You took that very very hard Assi's loss, you really did.

1582
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 2: And Brian Wilson for you, Adam, Yeah, that's right.

1583
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:28,679
Speaker 14: I was. I mean, I'm just like a major Beach

1584
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 14: Boys fan and I love Brian Wilson and spend a

1585
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,640
Speaker 14: good deal of time thinking about him and all the

1586
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,799
Speaker 14: brothers and now they're all gone, and it's very sad,

1587
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 14: but you know, we're just grateful for their their contribution

1588
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 14: and the joy that they gave all of us. And yeah,

1589
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 14: you have to you have to hold on to the

1590
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,200
Speaker 14: light somehow, you know, and just be grateful for what

1591
01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 14: they gave us.

1592
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:52,720
Speaker 2: It's so true. And serve a body move in.

1593
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 4: So again, we've all heard this story a thousand times,

1594
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 4: but we were at crime Con and yes, saw a

1595
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 4: body move in Courtney and I ha tacked her in

1596
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 4: the green room. We took photographs. We have to post

1597
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 4: that photo. It's briatus and we took pictures and much

1598
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 4: like every single person here, what did we say, court

1599
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 4: I'm like, we're gonna nobody move in forever and why

1600
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 4: literally I was like, listen, are you available because we're

1601
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:19,640
Speaker 4: going to do a podcast and da da da da.

1602
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 4: And as Courtney mentioned, yes, she just jumps right in body,

1603
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,920
Speaker 4: just jumped right in headfirst and was so trusting because

1604
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 4: to her point, every couple of months, I'd be like, hey, buddy,

1605
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,240
Speaker 4: I promise you what's going to happen. It's just taking

1606
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 4: such a long time, but I promise, and you just

1607
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,440
Speaker 4: always kept the faith and when it came time for showtime,

1608
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 4: we did a roll call.

1609
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,639
Speaker 2: We're like, who's in. Everybody was like boom, tell us when,

1610
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 2: tell us where?

1611
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 4: And you have brought so much smarts and heart and

1612
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:49,559
Speaker 4: laughter to the equation.

1613
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 2: You tell it like it is.

1614
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 4: And man, it has been such an honor to have

1615
01:30:55,960 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 4: you in my daily life. And I'm so I'll be

1616
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 4: grateful for that. I literally write that down when I

1617
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 4: send your prayers at.

1618
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 2: Night, So thank you so much. Amazing your prayers too.

1619
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:14,559
Speaker 6: It's funny because you know, at places like crime chron

1620
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 6: especially when you're one of the main speakers, and I

1621
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 6: was doing two workshops, I was on the main stage

1622
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 6: twice that weekend, and so you know, I had a

1623
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 6: stack of cards from people, Oh, I'm gonna call you,

1624
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 6: I want to get with you, I want to work

1625
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 6: with you in the future, and I've got like probably

1626
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:33,400
Speaker 6: ten or so that reached out. Eventually I ended up

1627
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 6: working with two and you guys were one of them.

1628
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,720
Speaker 6: Because you know, you as somebody who gets cast and

1629
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 6: things like, you know this you have to suss it out.

1630
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,679
Speaker 6: You can't roll with every production company that that calls you, right,

1631
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,600
Speaker 6: you have to really research them. And so I know

1632
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 6: a little bit more about you than you think, and

1633
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 6: that's why I trusted you.

1634
01:31:53,400 --> 01:32:00,040
Speaker 2: I love it. Body knows my meditata.

1635
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 11: Body knows my medadie I would wear not.

1636
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 2: It's a competent and there's nobody I trust with it

1637
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 2: more than Boddie.

1638
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,519
Speaker 4: We are so grateful that you spent the entire evening

1639
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 4: with us and we cannot wait to do this every

1640
01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 4: night in twenty twenty six. Please be kind, be loving,

1641
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:33,680
Speaker 4: and stay safe during the holidays.