1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart three D 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: audience for full exposure, listen with headphones. How can we 3 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: translate reams of data, thousands of words complicated formulas into 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: the yes no signals that the computer can understand? The 5 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: answer is binary arithmetic, a system that uses only two 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: digits one and zero. The binary number one oh one 7 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: equals five in the decimal system. Any number can be 8 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: written in the binary system. One hundred forty two thousand, 9 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: eight hundred fifty seven looks like this in binary arithmetic. 10 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: This system of arithmetic is at The Rundolshom Forest encounter 11 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: has gone through a number of stages since its occurrence. 12 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: At the very end of nineteen eight, the newspapers picked 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: it up in making it public for the first time, 14 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: and then thirty years later came new statements from the 15 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: witnesses with new details and even entirely new aspects of 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: the encounter, enhancing the original accounts, making them stranger and 17 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: more incredible. I'm Toby Ball, and this is Strange Arrivals 18 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: Episode four. Eyes of Your Eyes. I'm sure you've heard 19 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: of the Roswell UFO crash. Briefly, a rancher named Mac 20 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: Braswell discovered debris on his land near Roswell, New Mexico. 21 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: He called the Air Force, who came out to the 22 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: site and retrieved the strange collection of materials strewn across 23 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: the scrub land. On July, the Roswell Daily Record ran 24 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: a front page article with the headline r A a 25 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: F captures flying saucer on ranch in Roswell region. R 26 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: a a F stands for Roswell Army Airfield. The Army 27 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: quickly put out a correction identifying the wreckage as a 28 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: downed weather balloon. What many people don't realize is that 29 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: the Roswell Crash really disappeared from view for about thirty years. 30 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't really a part of UFO lore until the 31 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: publication of the Roswell Incident by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. 32 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: This began the Roswell Crashes second life, and it eventually 33 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: became the most well known UFO incident of all. But 34 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: for right now, what's interesting is the process the story 35 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: under when from the initial claim to the refutation of 36 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: that claim, to hibernation to re emergence. The Roswilliams syndrome 37 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: is my name for a phenomenon that I first recognized 38 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: regarding the famous Roswell incident, but I realized that what 39 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: had happened with the Roswell incident had also happened at 40 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: a number of other UFO cases. I'm Joe Nickel. I'm 41 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: probably the world's only full time science based professional paranormal investigator. 42 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: If there's another Win somewhere in the world, I think 43 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: I would know about him. What I found was that 44 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: there's a kind of process in which these things occur. 45 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't explain all UFO incidents, of course, 46 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: but it's a a pattern that you can group certain 47 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: cases into the Roswellian syndrome. The syndrome is composed of 48 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: five elements. First, the UFO incident must occur, and then, 49 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: quite often, as at Roswell, that gets debunked very promptly. 50 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: Somebody brings forth evidence or something happens that that case 51 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: is pretty much put down, seemingly explained, whatever, And that 52 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: stage two, as a consequence of the debunking, Stage three, 53 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: that story goes underground. It doesn't go away, I found, 54 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: it goes underground. And then step four is that once 55 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: it's underground, it's subject to a variety of myth making processes, 56 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: for example, simple rumors and gossip, and various other things 57 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: like people's tendency to exaggerate. This can also include people's 58 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: memories changing over time, combining stories, filling in missing pieces, confabulating, 59 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: and of course deliberate hoaxing. The paranormal attracts hoaxers quite 60 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: a bit, I've found. And then the final step number 61 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: five is that this story then emerges, like a virulent 62 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: form of a virus. It comes back and now it's 63 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: armed in ways that the original incident, which was maybe 64 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: pretty easily debunked or at least dismissed, it's now sort 65 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: of vaccinated against that kind of dismissal. In Season one 66 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: of Strange Arrivals, we saw how memory inevitably changes over 67 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: the course of years due to a number of factors, 68 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: and this can lead to stories changing as well. Every 69 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: time you're telling that story, as you're saying, if you've 70 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: told it a hundred times, the hundredth time you're telling it, 71 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: you're remembering the ninety nine time you told it. In 72 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: the time you're remembering the time you told it. This 73 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: is Dr Mark Ken, Principal lecturer at University of New Hampshire, 74 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: among others. He's taught a course on paranormal and other 75 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: extraordinary beliefs. We have a several biases in there. We 76 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: have a bias that makes us more the focus of 77 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: the story, so the things that happened to us are 78 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: more prominent. We have a bias that puts the memories 79 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: in line with what we believe about ourselves now. So 80 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: even if we have changed tremendously since that time, that 81 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: story is going to fit who we are now. There's 82 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: a number of other ones that stories tend to, as 83 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: you say, streamline and fit a storyline better than the 84 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: fragmented way that we might remember it initially. But people 85 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: remember things that they can't possibly have remembered. They remember 86 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: things that in fact did not happen. On June, thirty 87 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: years after his encounter, Chuck Halt wrote and signed an 88 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: affidavit committing to paper his current at the time memory 89 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: of his encounter in Reynold shimp Forrest on Night three. 90 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: It's not surprising that there are a number of inconsistencies 91 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: between this affidavit and the memo that he wrote in 92 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: the days immediately following the encounter. Some of them have 93 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: to do with the number and locations of the objects 94 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: that he saw in the sky. Some are more significant. 95 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: In the affidavit, Halt rights, about the same time someone 96 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: knows a similar object in the southern sky. It was round, 97 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: and at one point it came towards us at a 98 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: very high speed, stopped overhead, and sent down a pencil 99 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: like beam, sort of like a laser beam, and that 100 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: illuminated the ground about ten feet from us, and we 101 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: just stood there in awe, wondering whether it was a 102 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: signal or warning or what it was. It clicked off, 103 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: as though someone threw a switch, and then the object 104 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: receded back up into the sky. In episode two, we 105 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: heard Halt, in an interview I conducted with him for 106 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: this series, described this part of his encounter. And in fact, 107 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:50,239 Speaker 1: we hear about a beam of light in the Halt tape, 108 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: and he mentions it briefly in the memo, stating that 109 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: the object quote beamed down a stream of light from 110 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: time to time, But there is nothing in either the 111 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: recording or memo that hints that the beam of light 112 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: came within ten ft of Halt and his party. This 113 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: claim is new and sensational information that emerged thirty years 114 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: after the fact. Affidavit continues this object then moved back 115 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: toward Bentwaters and continued to send down beams of light 116 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: at one point near the weapons storage area. We knew 117 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: that because we could hear the chatter on the two 118 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: way radio. Several airmen present later told me that they 119 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: saw the beams. I don't remember any names at this point. 120 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: This part of the heart recording references a light hovering 121 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: over Woodbridge Base and sending down light beams degrees off 122 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: their list, and similar lights and being done failure, but 123 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: Mode doesn't mention this, And just as with the beam 124 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: coming within ten ft of him, Halt seems to be 125 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: taking a moment on the tape and making it more 126 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: dramatic and compelling in retrospect. And it's hard to check 127 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: this new detail because Chuck doesn't remember the names of 128 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: the witnesses. But there is no contemporaneous corroboration of this happening. 129 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: This fits the model of the new emerging story in 130 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: Joe Nichols Roswellian syndrome. It's coming back in this virulent 131 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: strain with all sorts of evidence, maybe real evidence, maybe 132 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: alleged evidence, but a whole bunch of things. The new 133 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: evidence includes claims that on the nights of December, unidentified 134 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: objects were picked up on radar. In by all accounts, 135 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: there was no confirmation that any strange objects have been 136 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: detected on radar. Thirty years later, however, that detail had changed. 137 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, a UFO researcher named Robert 138 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Hastings posted an excerpt from a book he had published 139 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: in which he found two former military technicians from R. 140 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: A F. Bentwaters and R. A F. Woodbridge, who claimed 141 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: to have seen unexplainable objects on radar, as well as 142 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: to have witnessed the craft with their own eyes. Their 143 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: names were Ike Barker and Jim Carrey. This is from 144 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: a story in the April edition of The Mirror in 145 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: English newspaper. Mike Barker said, it wasn't like any radar 146 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: target I've ever seen. It was traveling at an extremely 147 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: high rate of speed. It passed over the control tower 148 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: and then it stopped. I've never seen anything like the 149 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: maneuverability that happened with this object. It was orange and color, 150 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: and it popped into my mind that somebody was flying 151 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: a basket all out here. There were lights around the center, 152 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: but not like navigation lights. It was more like portholes, 153 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: as if you were seeing the lights from the inside 154 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: coming out. It hovered, momentarily, reversed its course, and went 155 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: back out at a high rate of speed. Carry A 156 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: tech sergeant with the communication squadron said the unknown target 157 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: made a sharp right angled turn at high speed before 158 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: it left the area. He said, it was just phenomenal 159 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: to see it go that fast. I said, that can't 160 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: be one of ours. No jet can make an immediate 161 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: right hand turn. The radar experts did not report the 162 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: sighting to their superiors over fears that it could ruin 163 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: their careers. Halt has spoken with the two men, and 164 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: the food air traffic controllers are on record. I've talked 165 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: to them both on a great length and they say 166 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: they saw the object go across the scope seconds in 167 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: other words, thousands of miles in our twice. They saw 168 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: it come back. They physically saw the glory and orange 169 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: a readish object. They saw it go into the forest. 170 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: What are we supposed to make of this? These two 171 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: men had critical confirming information about the encounter, but waited 172 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: decades before coming forward. Why. The mirror suggests that it 173 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: was because they were concerned that revealing what they had 174 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: seen would have ramifications for their careers. Maybe, but again, 175 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: there was no evidence before this that radar had picked 176 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: up anything unusual at the time. Retired Air Force pilot 177 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: James mcgahey corroborates this. What should be very clear about 178 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: during this entire time, there were no other visual sightings 179 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: of anything, and there were no radar reports of anything 180 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: on the air defense radar. I know because checked all 181 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: the reports. So that's what basically happened on the first night. 182 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: At the time was reported to the Ministry of Defense. 183 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: It was just unexplained lights in the sky over Endels 184 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: from Forest Sheffield Hallam University Associate Professor David Clark, and 185 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: all the Ministry of Defense did was Simon Weed and 186 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: copied Colonel halts memo is sent it to all the 187 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: different radar stations in that area that were responsible for 188 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: air defense. He said, did you see anything unusual on 189 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: these days? They looked on their log books, No, nothing registered. 190 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: That's it. Then filing with the rest they weren't authorized 191 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: to do any further investigation other than that. Now, the 192 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: problem is you can only make checks on radar if 193 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: you've got very specific accurate information, date, time, location, etcetera, etcetera. 194 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Remember an episode two where we saw that Hart had 195 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: mixed up the hats of the encounters. He identified everything 196 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: is happening a day later than it actually did. Here's 197 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: where it becomes an issue with verifying the radar readings. 198 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: When that member was copied to the radar stations and 199 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: they did the checks on the radar, they were looking 200 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: at the wrong times and the wrong days. Realizing this problem, 201 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: David Clark did some investigation to find witnesses who could 202 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: speak to the radar readings. On the night of December, 203 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: the night that Halt was in the forest, I tracked 204 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: the radar station operated down who was there, Who was 205 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: actually the person who took the call from Colonel Hall 206 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: in the forest, and he said it was absolutely insistent 207 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: that there was something there. Could I look at the 208 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: radar picture. I looked at the radar picture over and 209 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: over again. There's nothing on the radar. We know it's 210 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: an actorate memory because there's a contemporaneous memo in the 211 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: file Ministry Defense file from that very person who I 212 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: spoke to dated saying exactly the same thing. That's evidence 213 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: that the stories accurate. This piece of evidence isn't affected 214 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: by the incorrect dates. In the halt memo. The radar 215 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: operator is reacting to halts calls on the third night 216 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: of the encounter. This has to be the correct night. 217 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: Two sensational new claims based entirely on eyewitness accounts given 218 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: decades after the fact. Both claims contradicted by what was 219 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: known back in. These new additions to the story, if 220 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: you believe them, both make it more fantastic and undermine 221 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: skeptical explanations for the encounters. But the most sensational claim 222 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: was yet to come, and it involved a message from 223 00:16:50,000 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: the future. Strange arrivals will return in a moment. In 224 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: episode one, while discussing the first night of the encounter, 225 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: I said that Sergeant Jim Peniston had a more extensive 226 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: story of what happened in the forest clearing, and that 227 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: we would come back to it now. Is that time. Remember, 228 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: Peniston and Brows were approaching what they believed to be 229 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: the source of the light. Another airman ed Caban SAG 230 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: trailed at a distance. At first, they ducked behind a berm, 231 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: but eventually Penniston decided to proceed before going over the 232 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: mound and approaching the light, Penniston looked over at Burrows 233 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: and found him motionless, just standing there looking and I 234 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: don't know if you're stunned. I don't know if you're scared. 235 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if he just wasn't moving. 236 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: But when I turned back around, um command Zac wasn't 237 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: moving either. As I came up over the brim, the light, 238 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: which was at one point very intense, I started to dissipate, 239 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: and as it dissipated, I seeing a forming of a 240 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: black triangular craft sitting just above the forest floor. The 241 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: white light disappeared completely and all of their The only 242 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: thing I could see was this black craft with light 243 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: light coming on the bottom of it. I wasn't sure 244 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: if it was hostile threat or not. They had not 245 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: taken their weapons with them when they left the base, 246 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: so Peniston was unarmed and his two companions were unmoving. 247 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: He would have felt very much alone, so I wasn't 248 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: sure if I was going to survive this. As I 249 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: got closer to the craft, I was looking underneath it 250 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: to see what was holding it up. It was fixed 251 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: to the around somehow, but there was no landing gear, 252 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: and all I could see is beans of light. But 253 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: the strange part about the beams of light is they 254 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: actually made intentions into the ground, maybe an inch inch 255 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: and a half. So I was trying to figure out 256 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: how that is making this craft you know, stay stay 257 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: sharing and so I tried to move it with my hands. 258 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: And if you had an autobile out there in the 259 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: woods and you tried to shove it a little bit, 260 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: you get some movement, maybe you know, like a half 261 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: inch chance or something like that. This didn't budge at all, 262 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: just stayed fixed. Peniston says he had a notebook with 263 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: him and then he started filling it with as much 264 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: information as he could because he wasn't sure if he'd survive. 265 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: He wanted to leave a record. I had no way 266 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: of measuring it or anything like that, so I used 267 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: what I had. I paste it off at nine ft. 268 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: There was no sound around the craft. There was no 269 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: sound in the forest. It was completely quiet. There was 270 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: a i'll caol the dorsal fin type thing coming up 271 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: out in the back of the craft or from center 272 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: to the back, and that went up probably about making 273 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: about seven and a a half feet total with the craft too. 274 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: I'm six ft two, so that's what I guess to that. 275 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: I started looking for obvious things that airplanes have to 276 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: make him fly, things like you know, arians and flaps, 277 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: crew compartment, things of that nature, and there was void 278 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: of all those things. The craft a matter of fact, 279 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: was completely smooth, like there was no rivets, there was 280 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: no joints, there was nothing like that. Peniston made a 281 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: complete circuit around the craft. He noticed that there was 282 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: some type of writing on its exterior, but it wasn't 283 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: what he would have expected. Yeah, writing, it appeared somehow. 284 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: It looked like maybe Egyptian type glyphs or something like that. 285 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: As I approached the glass, I went from you know, 286 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: touching the side of the craft, which is completely smooth, 287 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: and when I got to the glyphs on they seemed 288 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: like they were etched in to the side of the craft. 289 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: They felt like going from complete smoothness of glass too, 290 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: like sandpaper. Peniston says there was a row of those 291 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: hieroglyphics along the bottom of the craft. He estimated the 292 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: row is three or four ft across, and the glyphs 293 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: were maybe five inches high. There was a larger one 294 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: above it, which was a circular one with a trinangle 295 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: and had three other little circles in it, and so 296 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: I recorded all that stuff in my notebook as I 297 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: came in back around because I wanted to concentrate and 298 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: those glyphs a little bit more. I get around to 299 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: the the glyphs itself. He was drawn to the larger one, 300 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: the circular one with the triangle and three other circles inside. 301 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: When I touched the center one, I had this immense 302 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: bright light light, and I can see anything else in 303 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: the forest. All I can see this white light. And 304 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: in the white light, I can see like ones and zeros. Okay, 305 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: it made no sense at all. It was terrifying. I 306 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: don't know how long I had my hand on that symbol. 307 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't long, maybe five ten seconds, and I started 308 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: gaining my senses and all I did was just take 309 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: my hand off. Immediately when I did that, the light 310 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: was gone. I could see the craft again. Now you'd 311 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: expect that after having a bright light shot in your 312 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: face that it would take your eyes a few minutes 313 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: to adjust back to be able to see in the 314 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: dark forest, but this wasn't the case. Pennison says he 315 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: could see perfectly well immediately after the light or what 316 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: he perceived a light was turned off, so the technology 317 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: wasn't light. There was something else, but it appeared to 318 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,880 Speaker 1: be light. He walked back around to the other side 319 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: of the craft. I started seeing more activity. High shaped 320 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: colored lighting that was in the fabric of the craft 321 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: reappeared and started moving again. So I backed away from it. 322 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: I thought I activated something. I thought I might even explode, 323 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: So I got back on the ground. And then the 324 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: white light again, this bright light started to encompass this 325 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: craft where I couldn't see the craft and more honestly 326 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: as this white light until they started moving back through 327 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: the trees. Remember it was the trees that are only 328 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: five or six ft apart, and I paced off the 329 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: craft at least be a night feet wide, and so 330 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: it was impossible to do that, but it was doing that, 331 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: and it went maybe twenty then it rose to uh 332 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: tree top level. I could see the bottom of the 333 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: craft then and it made a slight right turn and 334 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: it was long and the blink of an eye. According 335 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: to Peniston, during this entire time, Burros and Caban Sag 336 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: were frozen, unmoving. This is what Burrows remembers. When we 337 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: got close to it. What I remember is it simply, 338 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: it was bright, kind of dimmed down, then it got 339 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: right again and left. So that's what I remember. I 340 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: don't remember any of the things that Peniston said took place. 341 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: Ed who was with us, also doesn't remember that. The 342 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: bright light is consistent with Peniston's story, but it also 343 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: shows how Peniston's account with the other two men not responding, is, 344 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: as Joe Nichol might say, vaccinated against contradiction. The fact 345 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: that they don't remember anything about it is baked into 346 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: the story. After returning to the forest with Burrows to 347 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: check the site in the daylight, Peniston eventually returned home. 348 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: He says he tried to sleep but couldn't and eventually 349 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: got up around midnight to make a cup of coffee. 350 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: I sit down at my dining room table, and I 351 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: pulled my notebook back out because you know, I was 352 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: just gonna go over by else and so I was 353 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: looking through that, and I thought I was losing my mind. 354 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I really did, because of the trauma, because I could 355 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: see nothing but these ones and Zeros. I close my 356 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: eyes and mind's eye, I could see once and Zeros. 357 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at the notebook and says, you know, 358 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: I think I can write those things down. Yeah, once 359 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: in zero's, don't you know, subside a bit, I'm gonna 360 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go to the base hospital. I 361 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: knew that was a career ender. He says he felt 362 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: a compulsion to write down this sequence of ones and zeros. 363 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: Flipped open to the back of the notebook where's you 364 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: know where, That's the only paper I had. I started, 365 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: you know, writing down, you know, there's the numbers that 366 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: one serviles er one one one zero one. And when 367 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: I did that, I felt better, And so I just 368 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: continued to do that, and I wrote down on sixteen 369 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: pages of him, and I got to the sixteenth page 370 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: and they were gone. I couldn't see him no more. 371 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: And I felt great. So I said, my god, I 372 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: think I've dodged the bully here career wise. So I 373 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: went back to bed, and I actually sucked all night 374 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: until the following day. Peniston says that he didn't tell 375 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: anyone about the numbers he had written down because it was, 376 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: in his words, pure insanity. In fact, the numbers wouldn't 377 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: resurface until an apparently chance occurrence during the filming of 378 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: a TV episode. And then I'm doing a film shoot 379 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: with Burrows, the other guy that was there, and Linda Molmahal, 380 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,239 Speaker 1: she was there. Linda molten Howe is a journalist with 381 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: a longtime interest in UFOs and the paranormal. And it 382 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: was for ancient aliens and we're out in Phoenix. This 383 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: is like is any when people started making documentary films 384 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: about this case that it really started to take off. 385 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: This is researcher ian redpath and this is something so 386 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: that you get with a lot of you if cases 387 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: that once film crewstot interviewing witnesses, they started getting them 388 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: to talk out the case, and whole new details introduced. 389 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: I would say invented. I was gonna interducee and Burls 390 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: asked about a time in there. So I'm looking through 391 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: my notebook and I flipped it back too far and 392 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: I have all these ones and sales written. Now I 393 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: figured what the hell this is? Thirty years later, and 394 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: only a couple of years after Halts affidavit with his 395 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: new information, Burl says, what's that. I'm figured, well, I 396 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: might as well telling what happened. And Lina how it looks, 397 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: and she's that's binary cool. And when she said that, 398 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: I says, you know what, I says, that's binary cood. 399 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: She goes yeah. I said, I didn't knew what that was, 400 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: and she said along, so when you So, now everybody's excited, 401 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: and they said they want to go into analyze, and 402 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: I saw, I have to think about Prometheus Entertainment, the 403 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: production company for Ancient Aliens, sent the binary code to 404 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: be deciphered. The phrases they got back were cryptic, bizarre, 405 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: and obscure things such as eyes of your eyes, origin year, 406 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: exploration of humanity six six six, and continuous for planetary advance. 407 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: Apparently a transmission error ended this word early. And there 408 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: was seven senses coordinates. I should really say six, because 409 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: one of them was done twice. He's talking here about 410 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: geographic coordinates designating six locations around the globe. One was 411 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: off of southwest, off of Ireland, out the middle of 412 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: the ocean, and the other was near Sedona, Arizona. The 413 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: other one was on the Belize border, one down improve 414 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: one in Greece, and one in probably the most important 415 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: I think it was probably the one from Giza. It 416 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: was near there, and then there's also one place in China. 417 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: These locations that he mentioned are all important places that 418 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: allegedly have some sort of power according to some New 419 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: Age philosophy at this point in time. Gary Osbourne took 420 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: those accordance and concentrate on those. Gary Osborne is a 421 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: writer on New Age and esoteric subjects. I exchanged emails 422 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: with him, but was on a able to set up 423 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: an interview to discuss his work. Probably about five years ago. 424 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: He found out that there was correlation by the angles 425 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and two different positions and different 426 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: things around the world, and the what he determined that 427 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: the raw binary message was not the real message. That 428 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: the real mess is just is in the relationship of 429 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: these UH sites around the world. So a code within 430 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: the code, and that's where the research went from there. 431 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: I think you get the idea. It becomes more complicated, 432 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: more convoluted. The first code doesn't hold the answer. You 433 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: have to decipher the first code and then interpret the 434 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: riddle of that message in order to unearth the true meaning. 435 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: It begs the question why wouldn't the intelligence behind this 436 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: crap just beam him a straightforward message if it's so important, 437 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: Why the codes within codes? I see the appeal in 438 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: uncovering in quotes secret knowledge, but it doesn't seem to 439 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: make much sense from a practical standpoint. I mean, they've 440 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: gone to all this trouble the binary code. I think 441 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: very few people taking the binary code seriously. Again, Ian 442 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: Redpath that this has been investigated, not by me, quite 443 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: a number of people have investigated it, and there I'm 444 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: pretty sure that again this is a much later fiction. 445 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: It's an invention. And then there's a question of whether 446 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 1: Peniston actually made contact with a craft in the first place, 447 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: an event with no eyewitnesses. Chuck Halt, for one, is skeptical. 448 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: When he was in communication, which was difficult to do 449 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: because it was breaking up, was the gate master Starr Chandler, 450 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: who was a coup senior colp at the gate, said 451 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: he heard the conversations that they were trying to get 452 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: near it, but they couldn't get near it. Interesting, huh. 453 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: When he comes back to the base, he tells Captain Barano, 454 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: it was definitely a mechanical We tried to get close, 455 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: they didn't get close. Suddenly he touched it. He has 456 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: his code. No, I can't say he didn't get a 457 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: coach somewhere, but I don't think you ever touched it again. 458 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: David Clark, you've got all these different groups of people 459 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: who have all got different versions of the same story, 460 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: all contradictory, all fighting amongst themselves to be the one 461 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: that is the true Randelshom story. So you've got Jim 462 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: Penniston with his story, You've got John Burrows with his story. 463 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: You've got Colonel Holt. Remember after thirty years Halt came 464 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: out with a new version of his encounter. Only a 465 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: couple of years later, Peniston tells his story. Worry about 466 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: the binary code. They're all sort of trying to get 467 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: one over on each other and trying to assert themselves 468 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: as the true story, you know, the one that will 469 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: be passed on into the future. In my interviews, Halt 470 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: and Peniston spent time trying to discredit the other. When 471 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: I talked to John Burrows, he did not engage in 472 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: undermining the other two. Halt too, wasn't critical of Burrows. 473 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: The Peniston was, I would say uncharitable, but I can 474 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: understand it. It's a seminal moment in all of their lives, 475 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: and each one of them wants to have some control 476 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: over what is their own story, and in speaking with me, 477 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: they are all able to get their story out again. 478 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: But also seed some control, because I'm the one who 479 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: ends up telling it and I end up making decisions 480 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: that I'm sure they won't be satisfied with. The vault 481 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: in line. If you look at them all, there's very 482 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: little common ground other than the fact that the bunch 483 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: of guys looking around in the forest and so some 484 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: old lines. That's that's the that's anything that comes out 485 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: of it. Remember, we have heard again and again how 486 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: the military seemed unbothered about the encounters. It seems clear 487 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: that they did not take them very seriously. And the 488 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: Peniston and Hall disagree on a lot. They do agree 489 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: that the Air Force engaged in a cover up in 490 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: order to keep the encounter secret. So yeah, the cover 491 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: up was real. And the other thing they wanted to 492 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: cover up is a receiving binary code. That's probably why 493 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: and everyone thought about the binary for thirty years is 494 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: because of the efforts to keep it quiet. One and 495 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: started seeing psychiatrists for about a month and finally she says, uh, 496 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, when you be open to a regression on this, 497 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: This was an He did one session and when it 498 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: was over, the doctor said that she thought that he 499 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: needed another session. I said, why, I said, I feel great, 500 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 1: and she just well, we're gonna have to talk about Woodbridge, 501 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: and during that the second session and shows in there 502 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: where I get actually solely and Pentehal Sodian. Pentehal is 503 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: an anesthetic that is sometimes called truth serum because it 504 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: was thought to cloud a person's thinking to the degree 505 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't be able to formulate a lie. It 506 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: shows how they put a block in to cover what 507 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: exactly was going on around the craft with the buying eary. 508 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: But it kept me talking and from talking about it. 509 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: But I knew about the ones and zeros. I didn't 510 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: know it was buying a code or nothing like that. 511 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: I knew it was one of the zereals. Peniston claims 512 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: that the therapist got rid of what he calls the 513 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: block mechanism by which his interrogators were able to make 514 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: him forget the binary code experience, and that is why 515 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: the code only emerged thirty plus years after the encounter. 516 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: Season one of Strange Arrivals took an extensive look at 517 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: regression hypnosis, and it is clear that you can't rely 518 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: on information produced using this technique. The fact that Peniston 519 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,479 Speaker 1: believed he was subject to interrogation and memory manipulation would 520 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: be adequate to produce the quote unquote memory in a 521 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: regression hypnosis session. That being said, Halt also believes that 522 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: there has been a cover up. He wrote in his affidavit, 523 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: I believe that the objects that I saw at close 524 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: quarter were extraterrestrial in origin, and that the security services 525 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: of both the United States and the United Kingdom have attempted, 526 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: both then and now to subvert the significance of what 527 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: occurred at Rindell, sham Foris and R. F. Bentwaters by 528 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: the use of well pracked his methods of disinformation. Halt 529 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: was more specific when I spoke with him ten years later, 530 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: echoing the basics of Peniston's claims. They didn't tell me, 531 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: and nobody told me, and I didn't find out tater 532 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: tennor more years later they were Sonia memorial or Soniu 533 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: penetal and hypnotized. And there's no doubt in my mind, neighbor, 534 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: given what's called screen memories, in other words, of false memories. 535 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: These claims have been strongly disputed. David Clark spoke with 536 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 1: Colonel Conrad, would have Halt superiors in. Conrad was blunt 537 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: in his criticism of Halt's contention. He said, quote Colonel 538 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: Halt can believe as he wishes. I've already disputed to 539 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: some degree what he reported. However, he should be ashamed 540 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: and embarrassed by his allegation that his country and England 541 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: both conspired to deceive their citizens over this issue. He 542 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 1: knows better. Retired Air Force pilot James mcgahey echoes this criticism. 543 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: This is all complete, utter nonsense. It never happened. There's 544 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: no evidence that happened. It's totally inconsistent with everything and 545 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: everything you would ever think of about it. It's embarrassing 546 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: to the Air Force that these people are actually telling 547 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 1: all these crazy stories. Here's the thing with Rundall Show. 548 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,320 Speaker 1: There is no settled upon story. There are the initial events, 549 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: the skeptical explanation, and then these narratives that emerge later 550 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: that expand on the initial encounters. And this is the 551 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: dynamic that creates a modern legend. Again, David Clark, in 552 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: order for the story to remain current and for people 553 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: to keep telling it, you've got to keep adding something 554 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: to it to make it more interesting. It's almost like 555 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: a virus. It needs to find a host so it 556 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: can pass it on to some other person. So a 557 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: lot of the sort of things that we think of 558 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: that as King Arthur are actually modern accretions that have 559 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: been added to the story, and other bits of the 560 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: story have fallen away because they were things that didn't 561 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: quite fit the way people wanted the story to go. 562 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: People try things to try and expand upon the original 563 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: story because there's only so many times you can tell 564 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: a story about a group of people going into a 565 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: forest and seeing lights in the sky. You know, if 566 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: that's just the story, it's not going to survive very 567 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: long because it's not exciting enough. The novelty wears off. 568 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: So you've got to make it more interesting by saying, well, 569 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: the light didn't just stay in the sky, landed on 570 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: the ground and left marks that police officers came and saw, 571 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: and and that someone went up and actually touched it, 572 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: and then they had these binary code downloads and that. 573 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: Without that, the story just remains the same as all 574 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: these zillions of other stories about people seeing lights in 575 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: the sky, and the additions to the story continue to 576 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: this day. Just in the past year, we've seen headlines 577 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: such as from BBC News Online Rundell shim forrest Ufo. 578 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: Are we any closer to the truth. Forty years on, 579 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: from the British newspaper The Sun, X File Riddle s 580 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: a S trooper claims UK's most famous UFO sighting was 581 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: revenge prank after US soldiers called US aliens again. From 582 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: the Sun, Britain's most famous UFO sighting was a top 583 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: secret military experiment. From the British newspaper The Daily Star, 584 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: Britain's Roswell, witnesses described glowing UFO like a scene from 585 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: Star Trek. Forty years on, Burrows, Peniston, and Halt all 586 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: have books out with their accounts and theories about the 587 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: Reynald Shim encounters. Each in their own way is vying 588 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: to establish the official narrative. This includes asserting what they 589 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: believe was actually behind the encounter. For instance, Burrows believes 590 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: that at least part of it was a down Soviet satellite. 591 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: There's a good chance part of this incident involved US 592 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: bringing down a Russian satellite, so there's a decent chance 593 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: it was lifted out of the forest by a helicopter 594 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: and it looked like a crate that there was, you know, 595 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: hoisting up and carried over to the fly line. It 596 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: could have been a recovered satellite. I don't know for sure, 597 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: but they did bring something out of the forest. I 598 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: couldn't tell you exactly where it was, but there was 599 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: a helicopter hovering over that area and then it lifted 600 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: something up and it came out towards the fly line. 601 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: But he says the satellite was just one component of 602 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: what happened called weaponization of the u P and basically 603 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: what most people don't know, there's tons of things that 604 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: were being developed and worked on right outside the back 605 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: in Bridge, there was all different types of facilities. Model 606 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: from Heath which is a joint British American facility, and 607 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: Marconi was working at the British side with the Americans. 608 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: Also you have Bowsie and then you had some other 609 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: facilities that were further away. But they were working on 610 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: all kinds of things, and one of the things that's 611 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 1: documented on is the SDI being worked on. Back then, 612 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: they were working on drones, they were working on the 613 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: laser technology, they were working all kinds of e MP 614 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: technology and stuff. And also there is some kind of 615 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: phenomenon's there. It's still there to this day because there's 616 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: still stuff that goes on. But ultimately there's a phenomenon 617 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: there and what we were working on at the time too, 618 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: all ties in. Jim Peniston also doubts that they encountered 619 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: extra terrestrials in the forest as far as actually terrestrial stuff, 620 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: there's something like that happening. I never used to term 621 00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: UFO and I never said that or even suggested the 622 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: craft was alien because I never had that impression from 623 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: the start. Based on the phrases contained in the binary 624 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: message and statements he made while undergoing hypnotic regression, he 625 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: believes that the craft was from the future. It's humans 626 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: from the year. The thing they're trying to cover up 627 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: isn't about uphology and aliens all that they're trying to 628 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: cover up. It's us. It's it's us doing you know, 629 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:37,720 Speaker 1: interdimensional travel. During his hypnotic regression, Penniston says he recalled 630 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: his interrogation experience after the encounter. He remembers them asking 631 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,320 Speaker 1: him about that period in the clearing with the craft. 632 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: They're asking what I'm seeing, and they're not, you know, 633 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,800 Speaker 1: extra restrial there, they're us. They're uster in the future. 634 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,879 Speaker 1: This explanation guides his understanding of what happened to him 635 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: in that's what our belief is, and that's where our 636 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: findings every day are reinforcing that. Finally, when I spoke 637 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: with Chuck Halt, I asked if he had a theory 638 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: about what he saw that night. No, I just know 639 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 1: it's something that's either here in some form or shape 640 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: or some type of presence. Many, many stories just disappear. 641 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: You know, if you look back in the animals of upology, 642 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: there are many stories like Rendelsham that people would not 643 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: recognize if you told them, because they're not the ones 644 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: that have become part of the myth as it is 645 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: presented in the media. You may have heard of the 646 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: Rendelship Forrest encounters before listening to this podcast, or you 647 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: may not have, But there are UFO legends, whether they 648 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: are true or not, that nearly everyone has heard about. 649 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,919 Speaker 1: One of these is a narrative that has formed around 650 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: the way the US government and military has handled the 651 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: UFO question. It starts in Next Time on Strange Arrivals. 652 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: Strange Arrivals is a production of I Heart Radio and 653 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: grimin Mild from Aaron Mankey. This episode was written and 654 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: hosted by Toby Ball and produced by Miranda Hawkins and 655 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,719 Speaker 1: Josh Thame, with executive producers Alex Williams at Frederick and 656 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,400 Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey special thanks to our voice actors Joe McCormick 657 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: and Jeff Williams. Learn more about the show over at 658 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 1: Grim and Mild dot com. For more podcasts from My 659 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 660 00:46:48,840 --> 00:47:00,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.