WEBVTT - Kesha 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:23.756 Pushkin pop music's long standing party animal, Kesha is now 0:00:23.836 --> 0:00:27.556 dead set on slowing down and on speaking up. Since 0:00:27.636 --> 0:00:29.996 debuting on the hook of flow Writers Mega Hit Right 0:00:30.076 --> 0:00:33.396 Round in two thousand and nine, Kesha's released five albums, 0:00:33.996 --> 0:00:37.356 two of which debuted at number one. Until very recently, 0:00:37.396 --> 0:00:39.636 she was involved in a decade long court case with 0:00:39.676 --> 0:00:43.956 her former producer and labelhead. Somehow, despite that bitter legal 0:00:43.996 --> 0:00:47.236 battle and a public struggle with an eating disorder, Kesha's 0:00:47.276 --> 0:00:50.516 remained steadfast in sharing her art with her fans, who 0:00:50.596 --> 0:00:55.476 she affectionately refers to as her animals. On today's episode, 0:00:55.476 --> 0:00:57.756 I talked to Kesha about how working with Rick Rubin 0:00:57.796 --> 0:01:00.436 on her new album Gag Order provided the safe space 0:01:00.556 --> 0:01:03.836 she's longed for when making music. She also talks about 0:01:03.876 --> 0:01:06.996 how she channels Dolly Parton, Iggy Pop and Beyonce when 0:01:06.996 --> 0:01:09.556 she's in promotion mode, and how early on her career 0:01:09.636 --> 0:01:12.316 she lived in a castle with roommate to Vendra Banhard. 0:01:15.236 --> 0:01:18.476 This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. 0:01:18.676 --> 0:01:23.436 I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my interview with Kesha. Look at you. 0:01:23.596 --> 0:01:26.396 There you are, Oh my god, Here I am there. 0:01:26.196 --> 0:01:29.596 You are here, I am I'm nobody. 0:01:29.716 --> 0:01:30.916 I am also nobody. 0:01:31.036 --> 0:01:33.436 Well that's not true based on what I've what I 0:01:33.516 --> 0:01:34.276 heard from this album. 0:01:34.436 --> 0:01:37.756 I was just listening to the episode with Andrea last night. 0:01:38.156 --> 0:01:40.876 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so good. It's a 0:01:40.916 --> 0:01:41.636 great episode. 0:01:41.796 --> 0:01:47.276 It made me feel so good, like it made me 0:01:47.276 --> 0:01:49.836 feel good about myself, I guess, which is the beauty 0:01:49.836 --> 0:01:51.996 of sharing intimate parts of your mind. 0:01:52.236 --> 0:01:54.916 Made you feel like seen, you know, yeah. 0:01:54.596 --> 0:01:57.156 And also not alone, which I feel like is the 0:01:57.276 --> 0:01:59.436 goal in making art. 0:02:00.076 --> 0:02:02.916 Was there any particular part of it that resonated. 0:02:03.116 --> 0:02:06.396 Like the entire thing? Just his ability to be so 0:02:06.556 --> 0:02:10.156 vulnerable about and like really transparent about where he was 0:02:10.196 --> 0:02:14.516 at when they recorded. That was helpful, especially the part 0:02:14.556 --> 0:02:19.516 about imposter syndrome and feeling like sometimes just when you 0:02:20.516 --> 0:02:23.636 have this hole inside of you, you focus on the 0:02:23.676 --> 0:02:26.556 goal of making something great and then when you make it, 0:02:27.156 --> 0:02:29.236 that hole is going to be filled. And then when 0:02:29.276 --> 0:02:31.796 you do make it, and like, by the grace of God, 0:02:31.916 --> 0:02:34.276 and I'm so grateful and so at the risk of 0:02:34.356 --> 0:02:38.156 sounding like an asshole, because I am grateful and I 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:41.076 don't want to ever sound like I'm not. But when 0:02:41.116 --> 0:02:45.156 you achieve success, thinking that's going to fix you, and 0:02:45.236 --> 0:02:47.636 it doesn't, then you're kind of left at the top 0:02:47.716 --> 0:02:53.596 of a mountain like alone, lonely, still broken. 0:02:54.236 --> 0:02:55.716 But accomplished. 0:02:56.676 --> 0:03:01.396 Yeah, accomplished, accomplished alone and like you've exercised all the 0:03:01.516 --> 0:03:05.236 resources you thought were going to fix you. So I 0:03:05.316 --> 0:03:08.196 just relate to that, like, not every day, but when 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:10.556 I have those moments, you feel so alone in that, 0:03:10.716 --> 0:03:14.396 and it's scary, it's sad, it's lonely, it's terrible. 0:03:15.156 --> 0:03:18.396 Yeah. Yeah, how long into your career did it take 0:03:18.796 --> 0:03:23.396 for that feeling to sort of make its way into 0:03:23.436 --> 0:03:24.636 your It's funny. 0:03:24.396 --> 0:03:29.276 Because, like, I think it actually is helpful that I 0:03:29.276 --> 0:03:32.156 have these insecurities that I sing about on the record 0:03:32.236 --> 0:03:36.236 and that I'm pretty transparent about now. In my life, 0:03:36.836 --> 0:03:40.716 I've never really felt that feeling of I'm on top 0:03:40.756 --> 0:03:42.316 of the world. Even when I had the number one 0:03:42.356 --> 0:03:45.836 album in the country, even when my song broke records, 0:03:46.476 --> 0:03:50.956 I felt like it was all weird luck and I 0:03:51.116 --> 0:03:54.076 never had that feeling of like walking into a room 0:03:54.116 --> 0:03:58.236 and being like suck by dick bitches, Like I wish 0:03:58.316 --> 0:04:01.556 I had a moment of that, because looking back, I'm like, fuck, 0:04:01.636 --> 0:04:03.676 I should have at least had like a year of 0:04:04.156 --> 0:04:07.716 being a narcissistic asshole and I missed it. 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:11.356 This is always awkward. We met the day actually you 0:04:11.436 --> 0:04:16.236 met Rick. Oh my god. Were walking on the beach 0:04:16.276 --> 0:04:21.436 in Malibu doing a separate interview for something different, But yeah, 0:04:21.476 --> 0:04:24.676 you had just met with Rick. We were talking and 0:04:24.716 --> 0:04:26.716 it was a good vibe. But even then I didn't 0:04:26.756 --> 0:04:28.636 want to. It's always weird to tell someone like when 0:04:28.636 --> 0:04:33.116 you've met them, But I met you like pre TikTok 0:04:34.276 --> 0:04:38.956 kesha like you. No, it's really not a bad story. 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:41.556 It was just no, it was just it was great. 0:04:42.236 --> 0:04:49.116 It was Coachella two thousand and seven or eight, and 0:04:49.316 --> 0:04:51.716 I was at the back of a tent watching Devandra 0:04:51.836 --> 0:04:59.116 Banhart and a blonde girl and a brunette of some 0:04:59.276 --> 0:05:02.196 I don't but just the script don't remember came up. 0:05:03.516 --> 0:05:06.556 I think we were all probably inebriated, but I remember 0:05:07.356 --> 0:05:10.996 me maybe not. You just get in I won't well, 0:05:11.316 --> 0:05:13.716 I won't, you know, put your business out there like that. 0:05:13.956 --> 0:05:16.716 But your friend was like, do you know who this is? 0:05:17.356 --> 0:05:19.836 And I was like, no, I know, I have no. 0:05:21.436 --> 0:05:24.596 Clue. That's a good friend right there. I don't remember 0:05:24.716 --> 0:05:27.836 this particular exchange, but I do remember going to see 0:05:27.836 --> 0:05:31.596 Devendra Banhart and I ended up sharing the same house 0:05:31.676 --> 0:05:35.596 with him in Laurel Canyon at one point. Wow, but 0:05:35.636 --> 0:05:38.516 there were so many rooms. The place was like a 0:05:38.556 --> 0:05:42.076 castle that I don't think we ever even met. There 0:05:42.156 --> 0:05:45.036 were like twelve rooms in this house, or like ten rooms. 0:05:45.916 --> 0:05:48.156 And I would come home and I think he shot 0:05:48.156 --> 0:05:50.316 a music video in the living room on my couch, 0:05:50.796 --> 0:05:52.476 and I like came in and it was just like 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:56.996 a very it's a very sexy group of individuals like 0:05:57.156 --> 0:05:58.996 on my couch, and I was like, the fuck is 0:05:59.036 --> 0:05:59.716 going on here? 0:05:59.796 --> 0:06:01.276 But sounds magical. 0:06:01.356 --> 0:06:04.716 It was a magical time. But like your story checks out, 0:06:04.756 --> 0:06:06.796 is there like a worse part? 0:06:07.036 --> 0:06:08.756 No, No, there's no bad part to it. It only 0:06:08.756 --> 0:06:11.956 it just it you having said that there was never 0:06:11.996 --> 0:06:13.756 a part in time in your life where you feel 0:06:13.756 --> 0:06:16.196 like you arrived, and some of your honesty on the 0:06:16.516 --> 0:06:20.876 record about it reminded me of that time because it 0:06:20.916 --> 0:06:23.436 was I remember your friend saying that her being like 0:06:23.476 --> 0:06:26.196 this Kesha she sings on the flow Rider song right round, 0:06:26.236 --> 0:06:28.476 and I was like looking at you, thinking about the souse, 0:06:28.516 --> 0:06:30.476 like this is no way this is the same person. 0:06:31.196 --> 0:06:32.996 I remember your name, and then like you was later 0:06:33.276 --> 0:06:35.276 or a year or two later, TikTok came out, and 0:06:35.316 --> 0:06:37.716 remember you were kind of like it was like you 0:06:37.756 --> 0:06:39.796 were off to the races. 0:06:39.396 --> 0:06:41.756 But blasted off into outer space. 0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:44.676 Even in that moment though, you didn't really seem super 0:06:44.716 --> 0:06:47.756 comfortable to me, and like, yeah, I'm Kesha of right 0:06:47.836 --> 0:06:51.796 round fame was like your friend was really interesting. 0:06:51.876 --> 0:06:56.316 Very very good friend, and I'm lucky to be surrounded 0:06:56.356 --> 0:06:59.996 by awesome women that we always like build each other 0:07:00.076 --> 0:07:03.276 up and like have each other's backs. And you say, 0:07:03.276 --> 0:07:05.276 I never felt comfortable in that role, But I don't 0:07:05.276 --> 0:07:11.316 think I've just ever felt super comfortable period, like ever 0:07:11.596 --> 0:07:14.716 in my entire life. I mean, have you had like 0:07:14.956 --> 0:07:19.716 an elongated period of time where you've just felt super company. 0:07:20.076 --> 0:07:23.676 I'm starting to now, and I'm worried that that means something. 0:07:24.556 --> 0:07:26.996 Oh that's so nice. That's that gives me hope. 0:07:27.396 --> 0:07:28.876 It gives me hope, but it also gives me anxiety 0:07:28.916 --> 0:07:31.476 because it does feel like maybe the other shoes is 0:07:31.516 --> 0:07:34.756 about to drop on some level and I should be prepared, 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:35.356 and I'm. 0:07:35.196 --> 0:07:37.396 Not knowing what if it's what if you just earned it? 0:07:38.196 --> 0:07:40.316 What if? But then how long can that last? How 0:07:40.356 --> 0:07:44.716 long can it lasts until you know, well, getting comfortable, comfortable, 0:07:44.836 --> 0:07:45.556 It's pretty sure. 0:07:45.956 --> 0:07:47.796 Just like taking the good. When you get the good, 0:07:47.836 --> 0:07:49.196 you have to let it in as much as you 0:07:49.236 --> 0:07:51.596 do the bad. That's something I'm trying to exercise on 0:07:51.636 --> 0:07:52.556 a daily basis. 0:07:52.876 --> 0:07:53.716 It's a fair point. 0:07:53.876 --> 0:07:56.356 Like I sometimes I don't know if this is the 0:07:56.356 --> 0:08:00.036 same with everybody or it's just like my special concoction 0:08:00.276 --> 0:08:04.596 of brain cells. But when I see I can see 0:08:04.596 --> 0:08:08.556 like a hundred thousand positives and the one negative thing 0:08:08.596 --> 0:08:12.316 will be the thing I keep with me and convert 0:08:12.436 --> 0:08:15.676 to being the voice of my higher power in my head. Yeah, 0:08:15.716 --> 0:08:17.676 and so I'm really working on kind of what you 0:08:17.716 --> 0:08:19.316 just said. If it's good, just let it be good. 0:08:19.596 --> 0:08:22.956 Let it be good. Yeah, not worrying too much. What 0:08:23.276 --> 0:08:25.996 I mean early on? What was it early in life 0:08:26.036 --> 0:08:28.436 that made you not feel so comfortable? 0:08:28.476 --> 0:08:32.236 Like what I have a core memory of playing a 0:08:32.276 --> 0:08:37.476 song to high school. All school was fucking miserable for me. Also, Yes, 0:08:37.556 --> 0:08:39.916 by the way, so I have a theory which I'm 0:08:39.916 --> 0:08:43.116 not sure if this checks out, so like don't quote 0:08:43.116 --> 0:08:47.196 me on it, but if you are doing great in school, 0:08:48.716 --> 0:08:50.556 you're fuck the rest of your life. Like if you 0:08:50.596 --> 0:08:54.956 have the best time in school, you're good. If you 0:08:55.116 --> 0:08:58.076 have a shitty time in school, you have to forever. 0:08:58.156 --> 0:09:01.076 I feel like there's this need to prove those motherfucker's wrong. 0:09:01.396 --> 0:09:04.356 I think a lot of our lives are like shaped 0:09:04.396 --> 0:09:06.676 by the experiences that we have, all of it. 0:09:06.756 --> 0:09:08.596 We think we are who we are because we're making 0:09:08.636 --> 0:09:11.596 conscious decisions day after day, day and day out to 0:09:11.676 --> 0:09:13.236 be who we want to be. But you know you're right. 0:09:13.476 --> 0:09:16.916 More often than not. It's it's based on unconsciously things 0:09:16.956 --> 0:09:20.036 that have happened and sets us on these courses that 0:09:20.116 --> 0:09:23.196 you sometimes can't you know, whatever you can't there's no 0:09:23.236 --> 0:09:23.796 turning back. 0:09:24.436 --> 0:09:26.236 Well, and I have you ever had this thought? I 0:09:26.236 --> 0:09:32.196 always think, what would my style of music, of taste 0:09:32.236 --> 0:09:35.636 and clothing of everything, what would that have been like? 0:09:35.716 --> 0:09:38.916 If that one Like all the men I've been in 0:09:38.956 --> 0:09:41.996 love with, the like unrequited love where they didn't love 0:09:42.036 --> 0:09:45.636 me back, I just so wonder if they had loved 0:09:45.636 --> 0:09:48.996 me back, if I would have ever become the person 0:09:49.196 --> 0:09:53.436 I was wearing the things I wore just to try 0:09:53.476 --> 0:09:57.596 to be hot for that dude's whose name I don't remember. 0:09:57.836 --> 0:10:00.876 Being like trapped in that that stage, Like you just 0:10:00.876 --> 0:10:05.556 would have never yeah gone past, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's 0:10:06.116 --> 0:10:09.316 it's fair because you know, especially early in life, relationship 0:10:10.356 --> 0:10:14.196 tend to work out to be like these these things 0:10:14.196 --> 0:10:16.556 that kind of prevent growth, you know. I think hopefully 0:10:16.556 --> 0:10:18.556 as you evolve and get older and life relationships become 0:10:18.596 --> 0:10:21.836 like you can kind of grow as individuals, you know, ideally, right, 0:10:21.876 --> 0:10:24.196 but yeah, like you kind of like it stunts your 0:10:24.196 --> 0:10:26.836 growth way or like early on, you know, well it. 0:10:26.916 --> 0:10:30.436 Can stunt it or just shape it, you know. Like 0:10:30.916 --> 0:10:36.076 my first severe love was somebody who was really into 0:10:37.156 --> 0:10:41.436 punk music, and because of that, I started listening to 0:10:41.756 --> 0:10:45.196 the Stooges And now I have a Stooges tattoo and 0:10:45.276 --> 0:10:48.116 I've done a song with Iggy Pop. Like, would I 0:10:48.156 --> 0:10:50.196 have ever done any of that if I didn't have 0:10:50.236 --> 0:10:52.836 a crush on a guy that I knew quote liked 0:10:52.916 --> 0:10:56.276 punk music on his MySpace profile. I don't know. 0:10:58.116 --> 0:11:01.876 I miss MySpace. I mean probably not, probably not. You know, 0:11:01.956 --> 0:11:04.596 who knows, you wouldn't gotten too Iggy. But that's that's amazing. 0:11:04.676 --> 0:11:08.236 Iggy is one of the smartest people I have ever met. 0:11:08.276 --> 0:11:09.516 I think he's iconic. 0:11:09.636 --> 0:11:13.396 Actually have like a like the Holy Trinity of people. 0:11:13.436 --> 0:11:16.036 I pray too. When I get an interview question and 0:11:16.076 --> 0:11:19.036 I'm like Okay. It's either like, okay, how do I 0:11:19.076 --> 0:11:22.436 answer this like really sincerely and kind and genuine and 0:11:22.476 --> 0:11:25.196 speak from the heart. Then I channel Dolly Parton. If 0:11:25.236 --> 0:11:27.916 I'm like Okay, now's the time to be a little cunt, 0:11:28.316 --> 0:11:31.356 then I'm like okay, I channel Iggy. And then when 0:11:31.396 --> 0:11:34.396 I'm like when you're just like above it all and 0:11:34.436 --> 0:11:38.276 you just like are the most powerful bitch in the world, 0:11:39.756 --> 0:11:40.476 then I'm Beyonce. 0:11:40.716 --> 0:11:44.796 Ooh, Beyonce. I was curious who were going to pick? Yeah, Beyonce. 0:11:45.076 --> 0:11:47.156 I mean, look, we all found little Beyonce, but like 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:50.436 when for you particular, we're in the journey, did you I. 0:11:50.316 --> 0:11:55.716 Think the self titled album with the pink I think 0:11:55.716 --> 0:11:58.916 it's just called Beyonce. Honestly, I'm not even like I 0:11:58.956 --> 0:12:01.196 don't have like every album that I play all the time. 0:12:01.276 --> 0:12:05.476 It was the feeling I felt when I heard the album. 0:12:05.996 --> 0:12:08.316 It's like black with her name. 0:12:08.196 --> 0:12:10.276 In pink thirteen. Yeah. 0:12:10.316 --> 0:12:14.516 When I first heard that album, my goal in life 0:12:14.676 --> 0:12:18.996 was too because she started in super pop like me, 0:12:19.556 --> 0:12:23.876 and I feel like she has fully embodied the power 0:12:24.876 --> 0:12:29.036 of who she motherfucking is. Yeah, and I am a 0:12:29.076 --> 0:12:32.356 no means comparing myself to Beyonce. It's just somebody that 0:12:32.436 --> 0:12:34.836 I tried to channel when I don't know how to 0:12:34.876 --> 0:12:37.716 respond to something. Yeah, but like I don't know, I 0:12:37.836 --> 0:12:41.716 just always felt a little bit different. I went to 0:12:41.756 --> 0:12:46.036 school in Nashville. I was born in the Valley and 0:12:46.116 --> 0:12:49.196 my mom was like a single mom made music, and 0:12:49.276 --> 0:12:51.836 we moved to Nashville, and I just remember from the 0:12:51.876 --> 0:12:55.116 earliest stages of going to school. I went to a 0:12:55.156 --> 0:12:58.476 Catholic school and all the boys were wearing shorts and 0:12:58.476 --> 0:13:00.036 all the girls had to wear skirts. And I remember 0:13:00.116 --> 0:13:02.116 getting in trouble and I got sent to like the 0:13:02.156 --> 0:13:06.076 head nuns office because I wore the boys outfit, and 0:13:06.156 --> 0:13:09.276 just since I was at like six years old, like, 0:13:09.356 --> 0:13:11.996 if the boys can do it, why can't I do it? 0:13:12.156 --> 0:13:14.516 And nobody really had an answer. I got my hands 0:13:14.556 --> 0:13:17.956 lapped and then it sent back to class. But I 0:13:18.076 --> 0:13:21.116 still have not gotten the answer from anyone. No one 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:23.316 has given me the answer. If the boys can do it, 0:13:23.316 --> 0:13:24.076 why can't I do it? 0:13:24.436 --> 0:13:28.956 That is uh hot debate it still at the moment, 0:13:29.636 --> 0:13:32.196 it's and it's a great question, and that's probably there's 0:13:32.196 --> 0:13:34.156 no good answer, you know, there's no I. 0:13:34.076 --> 0:13:36.396 Don't think there is I don't think there's a good answer. 0:13:36.516 --> 0:13:38.436 Like I've gone down all the rabbit holes in my mind. 0:13:38.556 --> 0:13:41.276 I haven't figured out the answer. But even then, I 0:13:42.076 --> 0:13:43.676 always wondering, like why do you want to push? 0:13:44.116 --> 0:13:44.516 Yeah? 0:13:44.556 --> 0:13:46.396 Why do you have to find a boundary and push? 0:13:46.636 --> 0:13:49.516 But I just if it doesn't make sense to me, 0:13:49.956 --> 0:13:52.916 I don't understand the concept of just shutting the fuck 0:13:53.036 --> 0:13:56.076 up and like it is what it is, which is something. 0:13:56.196 --> 0:14:00.036 Rick Reuben, who I did this record with, he said 0:14:00.036 --> 0:14:02.156 that to me a couple of times, and it like 0:14:02.196 --> 0:14:04.676 blew my mind. It is what it is. It's just like, 0:14:05.076 --> 0:14:06.916 what are you gonna argue with with that? It is 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:10.796 what it is? He would just I would be freaking 0:14:10.836 --> 0:14:13.436 out about something and he would just like laugh and say, 0:14:13.556 --> 0:14:16.956 it is what it is. And I am still trying 0:14:16.996 --> 0:14:22.076 to like reach that level of acceptance just in life. 0:14:22.356 --> 0:14:23.156 It is what it is. 0:14:23.516 --> 0:14:25.516 Did any of that it is what it did? Any 0:14:25.556 --> 0:14:29.116 of that you know that Ethos did that like find 0:14:29.116 --> 0:14:31.996 its way into your creative process throughout the making of 0:14:32.036 --> 0:14:32.436 the record. 0:14:33.396 --> 0:14:37.076 Yeah. Absolutely. I'm I'm like pretty accustomed to be a 0:14:37.116 --> 0:14:40.836 control freak as much as I can be, and with 0:14:41.396 --> 0:14:44.636 Rick kind of just like laughing it is what it is. 0:14:44.676 --> 0:14:48.396 We didn't film the first month of recording because I 0:14:48.516 --> 0:14:53.756 was just an emotional beyond emotional wreck, Like it was 0:14:53.836 --> 0:14:57.716 really scary to me. He's only the second producer I've 0:14:57.756 --> 0:15:01.076 ever done an album with, Yeah, and so I was 0:15:01.236 --> 0:15:05.396 just so I felt so scared that he was going 0:15:05.476 --> 0:15:09.356 to quit. And I kept just like obsessively last gkeing 0:15:09.396 --> 0:15:11.196 him if he quits projects a lot, and if he 0:15:11.236 --> 0:15:14.036 thinks he's going to quit my project, because I felt 0:15:14.036 --> 0:15:16.316 so nervous that I wasn't going to be able to 0:15:16.356 --> 0:15:20.196 deliver the goods. And he's just so patient and so kind. 0:15:20.596 --> 0:15:23.556 I mean, you know, he's an amazing human. Yeah, he's 0:15:23.836 --> 0:15:26.196 so great. It was such a great influence on my life, 0:15:26.676 --> 0:15:30.196 but I have kind of taken in it is what 0:15:30.276 --> 0:15:35.036 it is. I made what I consider to be the 0:15:35.036 --> 0:15:38.276 most proud thing I've ever made with Rick. I'm the 0:15:38.276 --> 0:15:40.596 most proud of this of anything that I've ever made 0:15:40.636 --> 0:15:43.676 my entire life. I think it's a masterpiece. I think 0:15:44.036 --> 0:15:47.556 it's a classic. And if people are going to sleep 0:15:47.596 --> 0:15:49.516 on that, that's not my problem. 0:15:49.876 --> 0:15:52.676 I hope not. It's really good. I mean the last 0:15:52.676 --> 0:15:55.156 two records you made were great too, Like from a 0:15:55.876 --> 0:15:58.716 listener's perspective. From the audience perspective, it seemed like even 0:15:58.796 --> 0:16:01.876 those records were like a big growth period for you too, 0:16:01.916 --> 0:16:03.676 like just hearing your vocal more, you know, it just 0:16:03.676 --> 0:16:06.196 felt like, oh wow, like you're you're really like you're 0:16:06.236 --> 0:16:07.876 seeing like this person can sing. 0:16:08.316 --> 0:16:11.156 So I got kind of used to having auto tune 0:16:11.236 --> 0:16:13.236 as this crutch because I was like, no, no, no, 0:16:13.236 --> 0:16:16.356 it's like I need my medicine, like or I'm not 0:16:16.356 --> 0:16:18.316 going to be able to live right, like this is 0:16:18.716 --> 0:16:20.596 this is my life for us in my music, I 0:16:20.676 --> 0:16:23.156 have to have the auto tune, and Rick like weaned 0:16:23.236 --> 0:16:26.956 me off. It was like a detoxing program with Rick 0:16:26.996 --> 0:16:30.316 with the auto tune. I swear to god, I would 0:16:30.356 --> 0:16:32.396 cry and be like, no, please give me the auto 0:16:32.476 --> 0:16:35.276 tune and he's like, I don't know how else to 0:16:35.476 --> 0:16:38.476 tell you that you don't need it, And like I 0:16:38.756 --> 0:16:42.876 still am getting used to that idea, Like it's. 0:16:42.756 --> 0:16:46.156 Been shocking to me that you still feel like you might. 0:16:46.356 --> 0:16:48.276 I mean, you're a great singer. 0:16:48.116 --> 0:16:52.716 Thank you, And also like yeah, fuck yeah I am. 0:16:53.396 --> 0:16:55.956 And it makes me sad because, like we're talking about before, 0:16:56.156 --> 0:16:57.996 sometimes you just remember that one comment. 0:16:59.516 --> 0:17:02.636 You know, there's comments that I think even if you 0:17:02.716 --> 0:17:04.476 move past, I mean, they're just going to stick with you. 0:17:04.516 --> 0:17:07.436 There's certain comments that it's just offhanded comments. People don't 0:17:07.436 --> 0:17:10.356 even realize what they're doing, you know, say something. I've 0:17:10.356 --> 0:17:12.516 had family members say things to me as a kid 0:17:12.556 --> 0:17:14.636 that you know, I still I still think about it. 0:17:14.636 --> 0:17:16.876 I'm like, oh my god, you know I'm deficient in 0:17:16.916 --> 0:17:19.916 this particular way because someone just said it one day randomly, 0:17:19.956 --> 0:17:21.276 you know, not even they don't remember it. 0:17:21.276 --> 0:17:25.476 I'm sure you know, they probably have no recollection of it. 0:17:25.556 --> 0:17:29.756 And those things almost help define who you become because 0:17:29.796 --> 0:17:33.556 as people were just an amalgamation of all of our experiences, 0:17:33.636 --> 0:17:35.876 all the sounds we've heard, all the records we've heard, 0:17:36.476 --> 0:17:39.596 you know, like everything's a rip off because we heard 0:17:39.636 --> 0:17:40.236 it somewhere. 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:40.716 Yeah. 0:17:40.716 --> 0:17:43.796 Like, I really think our brains are just like our dreams. 0:17:44.356 --> 0:17:48.676 Our dreams just interpolate what we've experienced. And it's the 0:17:48.716 --> 0:17:53.036 same with making music. It's like I'm just dreaming. It's 0:17:53.116 --> 0:17:55.196 kind of like I don't know what's coming out. It's 0:17:55.276 --> 0:17:57.996 just a dream, but it's a mashup of something I 0:17:58.076 --> 0:18:00.156 must have heard with something else I must have heard 0:18:00.196 --> 0:18:01.436 and something else I must have heard. 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:06.156 Yeah, the sort of like affirmations or sort of just 0:18:06.196 --> 0:18:09.996 like this the samples from sort of like you know, 0:18:10.316 --> 0:18:13.596 some are spiritual leaders. As a magician in there, it's 0:18:13.716 --> 0:18:15.236 kind of just like these great. 0:18:15.236 --> 0:18:17.356 A wizard not a magician. 0:18:17.716 --> 0:18:19.396 Excuse that the difference? 0:18:20.196 --> 0:18:23.756 Oh my god, yes there's a difference a magician. I 0:18:23.796 --> 0:18:27.396 don't actually know the technical reason they're different, but I'm 0:18:27.436 --> 0:18:32.236 pretty sure wizards are like more powerful, well more powerful 0:18:32.276 --> 0:18:35.436 well defense. Actually that's a good question, but we should 0:18:35.436 --> 0:18:37.596 ask the fans, what do you think is more powerful 0:18:37.836 --> 0:18:41.556 wizard or magician or a musician or yeah. 0:18:44.516 --> 0:18:47.476 And you have it sampled. You have a wizard sampled 0:18:47.956 --> 0:18:50.956 into uh, into the and like some other spiritual leaders, 0:18:50.996 --> 0:18:55.236 and it's it. It helps frame the listening experience in 0:18:55.236 --> 0:18:57.676 like a really beautiful way, you know, because you're dealing 0:18:57.756 --> 0:19:00.156 with really I mean, just from the title alone, you 0:19:00.196 --> 0:19:01.716 kind of know it's going to be an intense listen 0:19:01.836 --> 0:19:05.516 from just the type of gag order. And it proves 0:19:05.876 --> 0:19:06.396 proves to be. 0:19:06.556 --> 0:19:09.036 You know, it is an intense listen. And we are 0:19:09.356 --> 0:19:12.356 kind of talked about what we were going to call it. 0:19:12.356 --> 0:19:14.596 It was initially going to be called Eat the Acid. 0:19:14.916 --> 0:19:18.236 And as much as I love that song. It's one 0:19:18.276 --> 0:19:20.756 of my favorite songs I've ever written, Like it's a 0:19:20.836 --> 0:19:23.396 really special song. But I was afraid that that would 0:19:23.476 --> 0:19:27.756 maybe play into this whole party girl persona that I 0:19:27.796 --> 0:19:32.516 have been so desperately trying to recover from because I 0:19:32.596 --> 0:19:39.996 realized America doesn't understand irony in mass so ever since then, 0:19:40.036 --> 0:19:42.836 I have to be really careful anytime I mentioned any 0:19:42.956 --> 0:19:48.836 kind of substance, even if I'm joking, it's like it's 0:19:48.876 --> 0:19:51.716 going to follow me into I'm far beyond when I'm dead, 0:19:51.996 --> 0:19:53.516 Like that's what I'm going to be remembered for. 0:19:53.716 --> 0:19:56.276 So I was like, I don't know, maybe, you know, 0:19:56.356 --> 0:19:58.596 there's a lot of time to you know, if that's 0:19:58.716 --> 0:19:59.676 not what you want. 0:20:00.836 --> 0:20:04.156 I don't want to be remembered as the chick that 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:06.396 liked to party. It could be like she was really 0:20:06.636 --> 0:20:10.156 fun when she did party and and there's all these 0:20:10.236 --> 0:20:12.356 other facets. 0:20:11.796 --> 0:20:14.996 To her character and you can you know, yeah, and 0:20:15.116 --> 0:20:16.996 partying is now secondary too. 0:20:18.396 --> 0:20:20.956 I'm fun as fuck, like sue me. 0:20:23.516 --> 0:20:25.156 We're going to take a quick break and then come 0:20:25.196 --> 0:20:32.316 back with more of my interview with Kesha. We're back 0:20:32.316 --> 0:20:35.956 with more from Kesha. When did you write Eat the Acid? 0:20:36.596 --> 0:20:39.476 Okay, so eat the acid. I forget the date. But 0:20:39.556 --> 0:20:44.476 that was during lockdown, So I was upstairs. This is 0:20:44.556 --> 0:20:47.916 my house, so I was upstairs, and I was just 0:20:47.996 --> 0:20:52.116 having like this intensive anxiety because I think when you 0:20:52.156 --> 0:20:56.796 do what I do, you are like off to the 0:20:56.876 --> 0:20:59.476 races and you have very little time to sleep or 0:20:59.676 --> 0:21:03.076 do much of anything else besides maintained that this thing 0:21:03.116 --> 0:21:05.676 you fought so hard for and dedicated your life too 0:21:06.556 --> 0:21:11.236 is sustaining life. So that happened for twelve years. So 0:21:12.356 --> 0:21:14.916 lockdown was the first time I was in one place 0:21:14.956 --> 0:21:17.596 for more than two weeks, probably in over a decade. 0:21:18.716 --> 0:21:23.236 So everyone had a tough time, and I am I'm 0:21:23.356 --> 0:21:25.716 very grateful and I have a lot of privilege and 0:21:25.756 --> 0:21:28.836 I want to acknowledge that. But it was really mentally 0:21:30.236 --> 0:21:36.516 a fucking nightmare. Is almost unbearable, just because when you 0:21:36.556 --> 0:21:41.636 dedicate your life to something and then you have built 0:21:41.676 --> 0:21:48.956 this whole castle around this idea of what your purpose 0:21:49.076 --> 0:21:52.596 is and what is and then it's disintegrating in front 0:21:52.676 --> 0:21:54.956