Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, it's and guess what, We wrote a whole
Speaker 1: ass book. That's right, y'all. Our book, We Over Me,
Speaker 1: The Counterintuitive Approach to Getting Everything you Want from your Relationship,
Speaker 1: discusses family, parenting, devours favorite topic, sex and intimacy, finances
Speaker 1: and commitment with the honesty and raw truth y'all have
Speaker 1: always gotten from us. We over Me, The Counterintuitive Approach
Speaker 1: to Getting Everything you Want from your Relationship, is available
Speaker 1: for preorder today. That's right, Run don't walk to www
Speaker 1: dot p r h dot com slash we over Me
Speaker 1: to pre order your book today. Every decision is not
Speaker 1: agreed upon, but that doesn't mean that we can't move forward.
Speaker 1: That is a fact. And when writing this book, We
Speaker 1: over Me, I had to make a tough decision to
Speaker 1: include a particular moment in our lives, and I decided
Speaker 1: to go for it. Dead ass. Hey, I'm Cadine and
Speaker 1: we're the Ellises. You may know us from posting funny
Speaker 1: videos without boys and reading each other publicly as a
Speaker 1: form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need therapy most days. Wow.
Speaker 1: And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We are.
Speaker 1: We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of
Speaker 1: life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to
Speaker 1: talk about. Through the lens of a millennium married couple.
Speaker 1: Dead adds is the term that we say every day.
Speaker 1: So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts,
Speaker 1: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Speaker 1: Were about to think Philow talk to a whole new level.
Speaker 1: Dead ads starts right now, as you guys know. Now,
Speaker 1: we've gon a book call We over Me the counterintuitive
Speaker 1: approach to getting everything you want out of your relationship.
Speaker 1: And I remember when Cadina and I were sitting down
Speaker 1: because the book idea was presented to us, shout out
Speaker 1: to Carlos from CIA. He reached out through his fiance
Speaker 1: at the time now wife Rainy, who went to college
Speaker 1: with Codina and I. We shout and said, hey, Carlos,
Speaker 1: wons talk to you guys about a possible project. Let's
Speaker 1: see if you're interested. So Carlos came to us and said,
Speaker 1: I have a couple of publishers who are interested in
Speaker 1: you guys writing a book about your relationship. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think? And I was like nah at first,
Speaker 1: and they were like, what you mean? Nah, and I
Speaker 1: was just like, we have a podcast, we utilize our
Speaker 1: social media, you know, we have a travel show that's
Speaker 1: out now with the Boys. I feel like we've shared
Speaker 1: a lot, Like I don't. I really think there's anything
Speaker 1: that we haven't shared with everyone on the podcast and
Speaker 1: Codina was like, that's not true. I was like, what
Speaker 1: you mean we have shared everything and she was like, no,
Speaker 1: we haven't. And when I started to look in her eyes,
Speaker 1: I could tell what she wanted to share. And at
Speaker 1: first I was like, there's no way she wants to
Speaker 1: share this because this is something that she and I
Speaker 1: went through at a particular time in our life and
Speaker 1: we're not going to disclose that. Will let you guys
Speaker 1: read the book to see what we're talking about. But
Speaker 1: I looked at k and I said, is it what
Speaker 1: I think it is? And CONDEI looked at me and said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the abortion. So thinking about
Speaker 1: this entire book journey and what it looked like for us,
Speaker 1: it really called for us to pull on some vivid,
Speaker 1: some not so vivid, some painfully vivid moments in our life.
Speaker 1: And what I've realized over the course of our life
Speaker 1: is that together at least in the past twenty years.
Speaker 1: Memories are gonna be memories, right. There are moments that
Speaker 1: happen in our life, so whether they're good or bad,
Speaker 1: it's the memories we have, right that brings me to memories.
Speaker 1: Don't live like people, dude, they always member you when
Speaker 1: are things are good are bad? It's just the memories
Speaker 1: that yeah, say, hey boy, stop just remember when I
Speaker 1: write us. Oh God, I was prepared to go all
Speaker 1: the way into it. But memories, listen, memories good or bad,
Speaker 1: they are what they are. All right. Let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break. We're gonna get into the media, the show
Speaker 1: where we talk about we over me and some of
Speaker 1: the decisions that we had to make in this book
Speaker 1: writing process. Was that little bomb drop for everybody? Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was mainly because abortion has become a
Speaker 1: hot button topic. Absolutely because of the laws that are
Speaker 1: changing to reverse a woman's a woman's right to choose
Speaker 1: whether or not she wants to go through with a
Speaker 1: full term pregnancy. Absolutely. Um, it's wild to me. It's
Speaker 1: wild to me, um that this is even a conversation
Speaker 1: that we're having now, Um, with real versus way having
Speaker 1: been overturned in some states, um men, particularly feeling like
Speaker 1: they have the right to even dictate what a woman
Speaker 1: does with the body. So this is not even going
Speaker 1: to be like a pro choice pro life conversation, because
Speaker 1: that's not something that we feel like we need to
Speaker 1: discuss openly with people, because that's a personal decision. And
Speaker 1: for full disclosure, I think everyone has the right to
Speaker 1: be pro choice or pro life right for sure. I
Speaker 1: honestly feel like, yes, we as people are allowed to
Speaker 1: are should be allowed to not agree without spewing hate
Speaker 1: at each other or not being given a title right. However,
Speaker 1: I do feel like over arching with the decision of
Speaker 1: whether you want to be pro choice or pro life
Speaker 1: as a woman, and speaking for I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of women, we should just ultimately be given the
Speaker 1: choice to do with our bodies what we want. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna agreement with that, and I would say that growing up,
Speaker 1: I've always been like a pro life person, but as
Speaker 1: we've experienced for childbirths, how could you be pro life
Speaker 1: without considering the life of the mom, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So my perspective has definitely changed, and I
Speaker 1: feel like having the choice is definitely the main, like
Speaker 1: the main point that should be driven home because we're
Speaker 1: at the point now where we're giving people the choice
Speaker 1: to do whatever they want. You can choose your gender,
Speaker 1: you can choose your sex, you can choose everything. But
Speaker 1: now you're telling me that a woman doesn't have the
Speaker 1: right to choose, even if they're raped, or even if
Speaker 1: it could cause a woman her life for or cause
Speaker 1: a woman to lose her life, she doesn't have a
Speaker 1: choice to decide. I feel like that's unfair, a little
Speaker 1: bit extreme, right, So yeah, um, Deval and I, in
Speaker 1: the book, we detail what transpired at that particular point
Speaker 1: in our life. Um, and in this episode, we didn't
Speaker 1: really want to dive too much into the details of it,
Speaker 1: because that's the whole point of the book, right, So
Speaker 1: you can look at it and you can read it
Speaker 1: and you can see, you know, a detailed explanation of
Speaker 1: what he and I were feeling. And the great thing
Speaker 1: about the book and the way it was written is
Speaker 1: that it really gives particular points in our lives and
Speaker 1: it gives both of our perspectives. Right. So, Deval and I,
Speaker 1: when we were talking about this topic, he said something
Speaker 1: that really just kind of it just reiterated to me
Speaker 1: in that moment how much of a team and a
Speaker 1: unit we are, And you said, you know, when we
Speaker 1: discuss our abortion, and he never put it on just
Speaker 1: me and said that time you had an abortion. It
Speaker 1: was when we made the decision to have our abortion.
Speaker 1: Because a lot of times I feel like you hear
Speaker 1: these stories about women who sit with someone, you know,
Speaker 1: procreate with someone, and then in turn feel very alone
Speaker 1: because they feel like now the onus is just on
Speaker 1: them to make a decision either way or the woman
Speaker 1: feels like I'm going to make this decision solely without
Speaker 1: necessarily considering or consulting how the father of this child
Speaker 1: may feel. It is going to say that as well, right,
Speaker 1: So it's it's very very two sided. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: that to this day, and even in that moment um
Speaker 1: you were very adamant about speaking about us as a
Speaker 1: unit because this is a decision that we ultimately made together. Yes,
Speaker 1: And that's and that's the whole point of we over me,
Speaker 1: is that there is no decision that's just you. There's
Speaker 1: no singular decision anymore. Um. I think that's important too,
Speaker 1: because speaking on behalf of some men, you can't make
Speaker 1: that decision on your own. If it's something we've done together,
Speaker 1: so you can't say this is something we've done together,
Speaker 1: but then the decision is ultimately mine. But I do
Speaker 1: understand though, that it is your body. So we sat
Speaker 1: down and we had a very very tough conversation. And
Speaker 1: when you get into the book and you hear how
Speaker 1: she felt and you hear how how I felt, you
Speaker 1: can actually understand both arguments. But at this point it's
Speaker 1: not about arguments, and it's not about being right. It's
Speaker 1: about what's doing what's best for all three of us
Speaker 1: in that moment um. I also feel like it was necessary,
Speaker 1: so people may ask me why I wanted to discuss this,
Speaker 1: and it's probably going to be like a bombshelf for
Speaker 1: our families too, because no one really in our families
Speaker 1: knew that this transpired, and in part because of the
Speaker 1: point that we were in our life. Um, we were younger,
Speaker 1: and it was a part of the ridicule that we
Speaker 1: felt like we might have gotten the shame, the backlash. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it was one of those things where we
Speaker 1: also ultimately knew that we weren't conducting ourselves in the
Speaker 1: most careful manner. Yeah, we weren't responsible, So it's almost
Speaker 1: as if we were going to be getting the fingers
Speaker 1: pointed at you like you should have done that. I
Speaker 1: told you so. And it's easy for everything to be
Speaker 1: or for everyone to be reactive in moments like that
Speaker 1: where I felt like if we discussed this now, it
Speaker 1: might prompt people to be more proactive about how they
Speaker 1: are proceeding with their sexual life. I'm in agreement with you,
Speaker 1: and that's why when it came time to have this
Speaker 1: discussion and you wanted to share, it also wasn't a
Speaker 1: thing where COIN was like, well, I'm sharing because it's
Speaker 1: my body. It was always we in us. She asked
Speaker 1: me how I felt, and I'm going to tell you
Speaker 1: what made me feel comfortable. I can't say who, can't
Speaker 1: say names because also I'm trying to respect people's privacy.
Speaker 1: But I did speak to some members of my family.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say whether it was men or women.
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm just gonna let you guys know
Speaker 1: that Kadeina and I are choosing to speak on this
Speaker 1: topic because this is what we experienced. And I had
Speaker 1: a resounding, a resounding amount of family members that said
Speaker 1: we've been there as well. Mm hmm. And I was like, what, wait, like,
Speaker 1: what like you? Because I grew up in a Southern
Speaker 1: Baptist family, and you know you hear like you don't
Speaker 1: talk about sex in the Southern Baptist families, let alone
Speaker 1: an abortion. And I remember the ridicule my brother and
Speaker 1: his girlfriend at the time, who was seventeen, received from
Speaker 1: having a child, And I felt like, just because of
Speaker 1: the way my family was and the way we grew up,
Speaker 1: that this couldn't have possibly have ever happened to anybody
Speaker 1: else in my family. So to speak to the people
Speaker 1: I spoke to a very as ages, different generations, and
Speaker 1: hearing them say, sweetheart, we went through the same thing,
Speaker 1: it was like yeah, But then it was also, why
Speaker 1: didn't you guys speak to us about sex before we
Speaker 1: got to this situation so we knew how to move responsibly.
Speaker 1: So that made me feel like we now have a
Speaker 1: responsibility to share our story. Hopefully it will save another
Speaker 1: young couple from going through what we went through in
Speaker 1: that moment, feeling the shame and the ridicule even leading
Speaker 1: up to having the conversation about whether or not we
Speaker 1: were going to go through it or not. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: I think I share the same sentiment in having a
Speaker 1: very similar family structure or makeup where you know, my
Speaker 1: mom's side particularly raised seven day event as my uncle's
Speaker 1: a pastor, like my aunt is still very very active
Speaker 1: in the church with her family, and there was just
Speaker 1: no way a that sex was really discussed in entirety. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that I just left to
Speaker 1: kind of figure out on my own or kind of
Speaker 1: lean on like an older cousin or friends who figure out.
Speaker 1: And as we became parents too, we realized the value
Speaker 1: and making sure that we now will have those candid
Speaker 1: conversations with our children, of course in an age appropriate
Speaker 1: way and a timely manner, like the conversations are naturally
Speaker 1: going to progress into things that are a little bit
Speaker 1: more detailed, and you know how how twos and the
Speaker 1: what to watch out for is are going to be
Speaker 1: that much more detailed as our boys get older. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's also making sure, particularly as we raise four boys,
Speaker 1: that they understand the female anatomy and how the woman's
Speaker 1: body works and how their body works. And there's so
Speaker 1: many different things that need to be unpacked, and I
Speaker 1: didn't particularly feel comfortable having those conversations early on, so recently,
Speaker 1: UM even had a conversation with my mom and she
Speaker 1: and I have just had now in my I want
Speaker 1: to say older age. She and I have developed a really,
Speaker 1: really just a way better line of communication because I
Speaker 1: think she understands now how out I in learning from
Speaker 1: you how to be transparent communicate. UM. It's helped our
Speaker 1: relationship so much more. And I think she in turn
Speaker 1: feels comfortable speaking about a lot of things that she
Speaker 1: wouldn't have before. UM. And I can still see sometimes
Speaker 1: discomfort in the way she approaches things, you know, but
Speaker 1: it's better and she's making an effort and I love
Speaker 1: that about where we are in our relationship. UM. And
Speaker 1: I was speaking to her about, you know, a gripe
Speaker 1: that I had with a family member and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, why, why aren't conversations
Speaker 1: just had, Like what is the what is the what
Speaker 1: is the complexity around just mustering up the goal of
Speaker 1: the strength to have the conversation that's uncomfortable and a
Speaker 1: lot of times it's what is it? What do you think? Judgment?
Speaker 1: Shame and judgment absolutely which is killing me in this
Speaker 1: day and age, especially with social media. Right we told
Speaker 1: about this before a young lady sent me email. Why
Speaker 1: would you share this conversation with you and your son? Right?
Speaker 1: What is the purpose of life? Is the purpose of
Speaker 1: life to obtain as much materialistic things so you can
Speaker 1: flaunt in front of everybody else. It's not the perfect
Speaker 1: of life. No, that's not the perfect or to learn
Speaker 1: as many things, as many ideas and then just hold
Speaker 1: it to yourself. But you have the wealth of knowledge
Speaker 1: quote unquote, and nobody else does. Right, is it just
Speaker 1: the right not just material things, but to obtain as
Speaker 1: much knowledge as possible to keep it to yourself, to
Speaker 1: prove that you're smarter than everyone else. No, that's not
Speaker 1: the purpose of life. The purpose of life is to
Speaker 1: view the world in its entirety from as many different
Speaker 1: perspectives as possible, so that you can obtain knowledge and
Speaker 1: then share it so that the next generation can be
Speaker 1: better than you like. To me, that's the whole purpose
Speaker 1: of life. So when you go through something in your life,
Speaker 1: it's not to keep it secret so that no one
Speaker 1: can judge you. It's to share it so that the
Speaker 1: hope is you help someone. And when you when you
Speaker 1: say you're gonna help someone, you can't then dictate how
Speaker 1: you're going to help them. For example, we're sharing about
Speaker 1: our abortion. I'm not going to this saying I'm sharing
Speaker 1: this story hoping that no one never gets an abortion. Ever, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I share this hoping that they
Speaker 1: banned abortions because no, or I'm not sharing it hoping
Speaker 1: that people will agree with our decision or not, or
Speaker 1: then me or you potentially feeling like we're going to
Speaker 1: be shamed a ridicule for sharing our story, or you know,
Speaker 1: people saying, you know what, kid, I don't agree with
Speaker 1: the fact that you had this abortion, so now therefore
Speaker 1: I'm going to unfollow you because I don't believe in
Speaker 1: that and I'm pro pro life, like that's something that
Speaker 1: I've considered too. But then also in us realizing that
Speaker 1: we're in a space where we choose to share, and
Speaker 1: then y'all can take it or leave it. You know,
Speaker 1: people are going to support regardless, and if that's a
Speaker 1: choice that somebody decides to make because I'm being transparent,
Speaker 1: then that's on them. And and to be honest, that's
Speaker 1: the purpose of sharing, the purpose of sharing so someone
Speaker 1: can listen to the story and then make an objective decision. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: hopefully an objective decision about how they want to live
Speaker 1: their life moving forward. That doesn't mean and the reason
Speaker 1: why I say objective decision is because I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be objective on the fact that I know everyone is
Speaker 1: not going to agree with our decision one to have
Speaker 1: one and then to share it. So we've already come
Speaker 1: to terms with that, and I think people need to
Speaker 1: understand what's the purpose. Part of the reason why I
Speaker 1: chose to share this because I remember how I felt
Speaker 1: as a young man going through that and not feeling
Speaker 1: like I had anyone to talk to, because I felt
Speaker 1: like I was the only one ever in life that
Speaker 1: went through this, even though I knew it and I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I felt like I was and I felt alone. And
Speaker 1: I did also feel like, what if I was doing
Speaker 1: something that was going to ultimately harm my girlfriend? If
Speaker 1: I had more information from people would want through it,
Speaker 1: I would know the right way to do things, see
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, And if I had more information, I
Speaker 1: could have took the right precautions to not even be
Speaker 1: in this predicament, which to me is why people should
Speaker 1: share their stories so that the next generation doesn't even
Speaker 1: have to have these conversations because we've taken the necessary
Speaker 1: precautions to not be here. Yep. Absolutely So going back
Speaker 1: to this conversation that I had recently with my mom,
Speaker 1: I was asking about, like why is it? And you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, probably shame, m probably fear of judgment. Um.
Speaker 1: There's also apparently in prior generations to my generation, just
Speaker 1: this idea of within my family. At least I can't
Speaker 1: speak for everyone's family, but my mom pretty much said
Speaker 1: like they're from an era where you just forget about things,
Speaker 1: like you just you just hope things will blow over.
Speaker 1: Let bygones be bygones, just you know, sweep it under
Speaker 1: the rug and move on. And there's so much detriment
Speaker 1: in that that mentality because nothing is ever resolved like
Speaker 1: that root of the problem is never discussed, it's never unhashed,
Speaker 1: and it's a complete and total disregard for how someone feels.
Speaker 1: So my response to that is like, Okay, so no
Speaker 1: one's going to take into account how I may feel
Speaker 1: about it. You want to hear how I feel because
Speaker 1: you just want to know how I may feel about something,
Speaker 1: but you're not even going to then say, validate my
Speaker 1: feelings or say, you know, you may have mistaken how
Speaker 1: things transpired, and I just just hate that that's the
Speaker 1: rhetoric around um some of my family dynamic, and that
Speaker 1: in turn forced me to feel like I was very
Speaker 1: alone in this situation aside from having you, because there
Speaker 1: was just no way that I was going to be
Speaker 1: able to speak to anyone about this. So you didn't
Speaker 1: speak to anyone in your family, no women, no women
Speaker 1: in my family about it other than an older cousin
Speaker 1: who at that point was only maybe what to three
Speaker 1: years older than me. So it's not even like I
Speaker 1: was getting guidance from someone who necessarily had I think
Speaker 1: she had gone through something similar. She might have had
Speaker 1: one in her life too, But it's also too like,
Speaker 1: you know, she's not in a adult per se, you know,
Speaker 1: she's kind of like my peer, um almost like a
Speaker 1: little older sister. But nobody who really could have pointed
Speaker 1: me in the right direction, Like I could have caused
Speaker 1: harm to myself not going to the right place, not
Speaker 1: seeking out the right resources, not howing to heal after
Speaker 1: it um mentally and emotionally, knowing how to deal with
Speaker 1: something like that. Like that's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: she wasn't even privy to or was able to help
Speaker 1: me through. UM. Years later, I had divulged this to
Speaker 1: one family member who I felt like I could just
Speaker 1: trust and just you know, after the fact, you're just
Speaker 1: like yo, like I went through this, and she she
Speaker 1: said to me, like, I really wish in that moment
Speaker 1: you would have felt comfortable coming to me. And her
Speaker 1: relationship with me got stronger after the fact because as
Speaker 1: she saw I was getting older and she kind of
Speaker 1: realized I didn't have those outlets to be very transparent with.
Speaker 1: I felt more comfortable over the years because she developed
Speaker 1: a relationship with me where I felt comfortable enough to
Speaker 1: do that. And I'm just hoping that you and I
Speaker 1: can do that for generations to come. Like I feel
Speaker 1: like my sister or your sister, our nieces, you know,
Speaker 1: god children can come to us and say, man, you
Speaker 1: know Aunt Kaine and Uncle Deval will never judge us
Speaker 1: for the decisions that we make, or hopefully they can
Speaker 1: feel comfortable having the conversations before they even make these decisions.
Speaker 1: And those are just the things that we were lacking
Speaker 1: in those moments. UM. So, yeah, it was one of
Speaker 1: those things where we just felt very alone. But the
Speaker 1: little support that we did have from someone in your corner,
Speaker 1: my dad knew. Yeah, your dad didn't know. You're right,
Speaker 1: your dad didn't know. I forgot about that, yeah, because
Speaker 1: I needed the finances to let it happen. But also
Speaker 1: I've always had a relationship with my father where he
Speaker 1: never judged me, even though you never had the conversations
Speaker 1: about sex. No, like like, here's here's the truth about
Speaker 1: my parents. My parents were always very open with having conversations.
Speaker 1: A lot of us not having conversations wasn't part because
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to start having those conversations. I
Speaker 1: was a child, and you expect your parents to bring
Speaker 1: some of these conversations to you because you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: around that age. They should be talking to me. But
Speaker 1: my parents never did. And what happened was my brother
Speaker 1: ended up having a baby at seventeen and I was
Speaker 1: actively having sex at fifty. So it was just like
Speaker 1: you out there doing stuff, You're doing grown adults stuff,
Speaker 1: and no one's there talking to you about it. But
Speaker 1: when my back was against the wall, I could always
Speaker 1: go to my pops, and my pops never judged me.
Speaker 1: The first thing he always asked was How's I was, kay, like,
Speaker 1: how is? How is? She? Like? What do you need?
Speaker 1: He was always there to help me through the process.
Speaker 1: And I'm looking to build that type of relationship with
Speaker 1: my children because even though we felt alone, I never
Speaker 1: really felt alone because I could run to my pops
Speaker 1: and I knew that my pops. My pops is not
Speaker 1: a judgmental person. Now, my pops is a deacon in
Speaker 1: the church, and he grew up and he at the
Speaker 1: time I was a young adult. So he also didn't
Speaker 1: force his beliefs and thoughts and ideas on me. That's
Speaker 1: very atypical of someone who was growing up in the church, right.
Speaker 1: But he didn't say, well, you know, and scold me,
Speaker 1: and he just said, okay, um, how is Condein? As
Speaker 1: I told how how told him how he was, he
Speaker 1: asked me, you know what the thought process was? I
Speaker 1: told him about how I felt, and I also told
Speaker 1: him that you and I didn't agree, and he was like,
Speaker 1: do you want me to exclose disclose who wanted to
Speaker 1: and who didn't want to? You want me to wait
Speaker 1: for the book? Okay, well, okay, well we'll let you
Speaker 1: guys wait for the for the book. Um, but Kadina
Speaker 1: and I didn't agree on what we were going to do,
Speaker 1: and we couldn't come to an agreement at all, so
Speaker 1: ultimately the decision was made. But the thing that made
Speaker 1: me feel good was that both of us were constantly
Speaker 1: thinking about the other person at all times. It's the
Speaker 1: wildest thing to me, Like, like, I remember thinking pros
Speaker 1: and cons, pros and cons, but I just want my
Speaker 1: baby to be okay. And then it was almost a
Speaker 1: point where well, I remember saying this man, fucking whatever's
Speaker 1: gonna make my baby okay, I'm doing it. Like all
Speaker 1: my beliefs that went out the window, all my thoughts,
Speaker 1: all my ideas, because you have all these ideas as
Speaker 1: a man and as a person about how you're going
Speaker 1: to handle this situation until you get into this situation
Speaker 1: with someone you care about and then they start talking
Speaker 1: to you about what they believe and then you like,
Speaker 1: al right, well, whatever's gonna make you okay and make
Speaker 1: you happy and and make and I just want you
Speaker 1: to be okay. And that's what it came down to
Speaker 1: to me, was like Cadeen has to be okay. Because
Speaker 1: I also felt indebted to your parents, like we I
Speaker 1: was responsible for you. Even though we were young at
Speaker 1: the time, I was like this, I this is my responsibility.
Speaker 1: And also I sat, I laid down with this woman
Speaker 1: and we made adult decisions to do adult things. So
Speaker 1: I have to now act as an adult and I
Speaker 1: have to take care of this woman. So whatever's gonna
Speaker 1: make her okay, I'm gonna rock with it. You know
Speaker 1: what I realized by you've been just saying this early on.
Speaker 1: And this goes back to the miscommunication episode that we
Speaker 1: have that you guys, I don't know if you will
Speaker 1: have heard this yet by the time this ears, but
Speaker 1: even in that miscommunication episode twenty years later, right having
Speaker 1: a full blown argument, ultimately we were still worried about
Speaker 1: what the other person was feeling in that moment. Like
Speaker 1: with the Soul Training episode, it was just like, I
Speaker 1: mean the Sole Train Awards and you going, even though
Speaker 1: I didn't feel good, it's just like, but I want
Speaker 1: him to go experience that, and you were just like, man,
Speaker 1: I don't feel good, she's in Jamaica, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be all right because you know, I want her to
Speaker 1: have a good time. Like That's how we both fell
Speaker 1: in those moments, and that was probably the earliest time
Speaker 1: in our life. That was probably the earliest time in
Speaker 1: our relationship where we were I know we always talk
Speaker 1: about costantly communicating and the lack thereof sometimes especially on
Speaker 1: my part, but we were really effective communicators when it
Speaker 1: came down to that. I think we both gained a
Speaker 1: level of maturity in that entire interaction that really made
Speaker 1: me feel like, man, regardless of what I decided to
Speaker 1: do here, he got my back. Facts. You know, when
Speaker 1: when you guys read the details of what we were
Speaker 1: going through during that time and what was going on,
Speaker 1: and you hear how each of us were so concerned
Speaker 1: about the other, especially during this moment of our life,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, that's that's kind of mature for
Speaker 1: two young kids. And it also made me realize, you know,
Speaker 1: how we moved forward through this. I didn't say she
Speaker 1: over me and you didn't say he over me. We
Speaker 1: both said we over me, because there's a difference between
Speaker 1: we over me and he over me. If you constantly
Speaker 1: put your partner over you, you're oh, you're still isolating
Speaker 1: one singular person over the betterment of the group, and
Speaker 1: after a while, that builds resentment. Right when we talked
Speaker 1: about the the episode about miscommunicate. The biggest miscommunication was
Speaker 1: that I was constantly putting you over me, and at
Speaker 1: times you were putting me over you, and we weren't
Speaker 1: expressing how we felt. And it wasn't until we were
Speaker 1: able to say, oh, well, we both collectively want this,
Speaker 1: so let's find out what's the best decision in the
Speaker 1: what what decision is the best interests of both of
Speaker 1: us and not just one of us. Yeah, even since
Speaker 1: selecting the book title, we had to rework it a
Speaker 1: couple of times. M We had some ideas in the
Speaker 1: very beginning, some kind of preliminary ideas, you know, we
Speaker 1: were thinking like, oh, you know, de valcating the Brooklyn
Speaker 1: love story, like what would resonate with people who didn't
Speaker 1: even know us, because if our book is gonna be
Speaker 1: in bookstores and stuff like that, there will be people
Speaker 1: that were going to be exposed to that may don't
Speaker 1: even know who we are. And one title that kept
Speaker 1: coming up for the two of us is You're All
Speaker 1: I Need. And we really liked it because that's a
Speaker 1: song that you play a lot. Yeah, and and it
Speaker 1: was kind of reminiscent of just like us, right. Um,
Speaker 1: But the feedback that we were getting from the publishers
Speaker 1: and stuff. They were saying like, you know, you're all
Speaker 1: I need. Puts the owner's just on one person. You know,
Speaker 1: there's not like necessarily a togetherness or it's just saying
Speaker 1: like you're all I need in order to be happy
Speaker 1: or you're all I need to in order to thrive,
Speaker 1: when we all know that that's not the case, Like
Speaker 1: you have to find that internally. So we had to
Speaker 1: rework the title a couple of times, and then finally
Speaker 1: Devout came up with over Me, and we were like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's really stuck. And then it was trying to figure
Speaker 1: out then the subtitle UM and I think in saying
Speaker 1: the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want for from
Speaker 1: your relationship? Um, was that something you came up with?
Speaker 1: Or was that the producer? I'm trying to know that
Speaker 1: was that? Was that was something that the whole title was. Actually,
Speaker 1: let me just pat myself well explain that to people,
Speaker 1: because some people have been asking like, you know what,
Speaker 1: like where'd you come up with that title? So I
Speaker 1: came up with it because I feel like everything we discuss,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to building a relationship, it's counterintuitive
Speaker 1: to what we've been hearing recently through social media. Social media,
Speaker 1: what you hear a lot of is I have a list,
Speaker 1: I want these things, I demand these things. I need
Speaker 1: to find someone who can check the boxes on all
Speaker 1: the stuff that I desire in my life. And there's
Speaker 1: someone out there who will match all of the stuff
Speaker 1: that I need. An I I was just like wro
Speaker 1: wro whoa, whoa. Whether you're a woman or a man,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you're only concerned about yourself, you
Speaker 1: can never exist fully in a relationship that's gonna serve
Speaker 1: both parties. So I was like, realistically, our relationship is
Speaker 1: extremely counterintuitive, right, because there's other parts of the book
Speaker 1: where we became closer when my focus was no longer
Speaker 1: on me, my focus was on you. For example, I
Speaker 1: gave you this analogy in the car the other day.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I realized that marriage is a
Speaker 1: lot like philanthropy. Oh yes, this conversation we had. So
Speaker 1: we'll be having these real end of conversations in the
Speaker 1: car on the way to the gym and whatnot. We do.
Speaker 1: That's how that's how we stay together. We laugh at
Speaker 1: each other, we we bounce ideas, of each other. But
Speaker 1: to be a philanthropist is to be to be empty,
Speaker 1: and to be empty in the idea of everything is
Speaker 1: about you, this is about someone else. So in order
Speaker 1: to fully be a philanthropist, you have to have your
Speaker 1: ship together at home. Right. You can't really help other
Speaker 1: people unless you're fulfilled, right, And if you live in
Speaker 1: abundance and you feel secure, then you can say I'm
Speaker 1: in a position to help other people. I feel like
Speaker 1: getting into a relationship is a lot like philanthropy because
Speaker 1: in order to fully be in a relationship, you have
Speaker 1: to have your home together. And what I mean your home,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about your spirit, your soul, and the person
Speaker 1: as an individual is looking to be of service to people.
Speaker 1: I'm so fulfilled in who I am as an individual
Speaker 1: that I can be of service to someone else. That's
Speaker 1: counterintuitive to what we're saying in relationships. Relationships a lot
Speaker 1: because most people are looking for someone to compleat them.
Speaker 1: I need to find someone to fill the gaps in
Speaker 1: the parts of the lives that I don't I'm not
Speaker 1: good at. And then when a person misses a gap,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you're not good enough. You don't fulfill
Speaker 1: that gap. Whereas to me, if you think about philanthropy,
Speaker 1: you don't go out in the world saying I'm going
Speaker 1: to help people and these people better fill the gaps
Speaker 1: and want to help in them. It's like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: fulfilled in my life and I want to help people.
Speaker 1: But philanthropy is also a business, just like marriage is
Speaker 1: a business. That's a fact, right, So you also have
Speaker 1: to help people. But you can't help people unless you
Speaker 1: have everything around you in place to help people without
Speaker 1: expecting something in return. That's the biggest part for me.
Speaker 1: It's the expecting something in return portion. My thing is
Speaker 1: with philanthropy. For example, you're going out there to help, right,
Speaker 1: so you help, you don't neate time, you don't eate resources,
Speaker 1: and the feeling of fulfillment that you get is sometimes
Speaker 1: not even tangible, right, It's not like I can it's
Speaker 1: a material thing that I'm necessarily getting from this act
Speaker 1: of kindness. It's just me feeling within my soul, within
Speaker 1: my spirit that I'm doing a good deed to help
Speaker 1: someone else. And marriages so much like that, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: benefits to being married. Right in the business portion of it,
Speaker 1: you build a business like for example, we did, We're benefiting, yes,
Speaker 1: financially from the partnership that we have um but ultimately
Speaker 1: when those things go awry, when the business ain't business
Speaker 1: in when times are hard, when money is low, Like,
Speaker 1: what's the one thing that's consistently consistently saved us over
Speaker 1: the years was the feeling for each other. The feeling
Speaker 1: and the love for each other that we have. And
Speaker 1: I've always heard my mom say, like, love don't pay
Speaker 1: the bills, right, but the love that we have is
Speaker 1: enough to sustain us through the moments where the bills
Speaker 1: might not be getting paid easily. But at least we
Speaker 1: feel good knowing that we're in the spread together and
Speaker 1: you're not alone. We'll think about this too. Even with philanthropy,
Speaker 1: you don't just choose a random cause. You have to
Speaker 1: have discernment about a cause that matters to make It's
Speaker 1: the same thing with people when you're choosing to get married.
Speaker 1: You don't just choose anybody. You have to have discernment
Speaker 1: about a cause that means something that matters to you,
Speaker 1: and and also use discernment to know that that person
Speaker 1: it's also a philanthropist in their own right and they
Speaker 1: want to be of service to you and to me.
Speaker 1: I felt like speaking about the abortion and speaking about
Speaker 1: the other topics because there were so many other topics
Speaker 1: we spoke about in the book. It also allowed us
Speaker 1: to show people how our spirits have always been to
Speaker 1: serve the other person. You know what I'm saying, It's
Speaker 1: never been about me, And in the moments where it's
Speaker 1: been about me is where we've often gone astray. That's
Speaker 1: what's so counterintuitive, right. So many people get married because
Speaker 1: it's about me. What can I gain from being married?
Speaker 1: As opposed to saying what can I offer someone else
Speaker 1: as a spouse? And think about the moments over our
Speaker 1: life where the focus was shifted to be about me.
Speaker 1: Me like you in that moment was like, well I
Speaker 1: need this, I need that. I'm gonna do this for me,
Speaker 1: And I felt like, you know what, I need this,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this for me. That's usually when things
Speaker 1: fell apart for every reason, because the selfishness that occurred,
Speaker 1: or the the lack of consideration for the other person,
Speaker 1: or not even that. It's just saying, this is what
Speaker 1: society has deemed normal to transpire in a relationship or
Speaker 1: a marriage. This is what a husband or wife is
Speaker 1: supposed to do. So let me just do this aimlessly
Speaker 1: thinking I'm doing a good job because that's what everybody
Speaker 1: said I should be doing. But it doesn't even serve
Speaker 1: you in the way that you need to be served.
Speaker 1: I think about how many people suffer in their marriages
Speaker 1: for that reason, because they're so concerned about what you know,
Speaker 1: the patriarchy says, You're so concerned about what the church says.
Speaker 1: You're so concerned about what you know you've seen growing up.
Speaker 1: That just does not suit your needs in that moment.
Speaker 1: And this is what's crazy about speaking about the abortion.
Speaker 1: Everything we just talked about being a service to each other,
Speaker 1: right as taboo as abortions have been. Right. Facts and
Speaker 1: stats from Trouble. Abortion is a common health intervention. It
Speaker 1: is safe when carried out using a method recommended by
Speaker 1: WHO w h U World Health Organization, appropriate to the
Speaker 1: pregnancy duration and by someone with the necessary skills. Six
Speaker 1: out of ten of all unintended pregnancies end in an
Speaker 1: induced abortion. Six out of ten, three out of ten
Speaker 1: of all pregnancies are terminated of women obtaining abortions and
Speaker 1: mothers of American women will have an abortion. By as
Speaker 1: common as abortions are, it baffles my mind that it
Speaker 1: is so taboo to talk about, and then people wonder
Speaker 1: why when we have these discussions about abortions. It's so
Speaker 1: radicalized and it's so polarizing because people don't just share
Speaker 1: their experiences and what their thoughts are, and they can't
Speaker 1: do it in this day and age without feeling judged, condemned,
Speaker 1: in shame. You can't share nothing nowadays without like you
Speaker 1: just have to know, Like if you're going to share something,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna have to know that you're just going
Speaker 1: to share it because you want to. And whatever feedback
Speaker 1: you get, however, people take it unsolicited advice, unsolicited comments.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna be what it is. It's just gonna
Speaker 1: be what it is. So it's crazy with these kind
Speaker 1: of statistics that that's where we are. And there's so
Speaker 1: many things around women's health UM that are not that's
Speaker 1: not discussed. It's not just abortion, this infertility that no
Speaker 1: one's talking about, the struggles with that UM fibroids, particularly
Speaker 1: things that plague um African American or women from other
Speaker 1: ethnicities other than white, things that are plaguing our community
Speaker 1: that we just don't talk about. And that's so much
Speaker 1: of the generational trickle down of not feeling comfortable having
Speaker 1: these conversations because of shame. UM. In part, why shout
Speaker 1: out to myself Stir Sakari, who's an rn UM. She's
Speaker 1: advancing her studies now and she's in uh in grad
Speaker 1: school getting her masters and women's health because she sees
Speaker 1: the deficit there um and how there's just a lack
Speaker 1: of education and a lack of support around African American
Speaker 1: women having that voice or having that presence um. You know,
Speaker 1: just even when you go to the clinic or you
Speaker 1: go to the doctor. It's like us, for example, now
Speaker 1: are in the space where we're seeking out black doctors,
Speaker 1: black dentists, black pediatrician, black you know, if we want
Speaker 1: to make sure that when we walk into these rooms,
Speaker 1: into these offices and we may potentially have a problem,
Speaker 1: or you're just going for your physical or checkup, that's
Speaker 1: someone who looks like you, who may understand your particular
Speaker 1: struggles UM and things that you may be predisposed to.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at some of these questions that Trouble presented.
Speaker 1: Some of these were not going to discuss because you're
Speaker 1: in the book, and of course we want you guys
Speaker 1: to purchase the book hard copy, definitely, because that will
Speaker 1: help us get in the New York Times bestselling copy.
Speaker 1: Let's put us on your mantle or something on the
Speaker 1: bookshelf there. There are a couple of questions here that
Speaker 1: I do want to answer. For example, did this decision
Speaker 1: affect your relationship in any way? Yes, it did, and
Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, it made us closer, which is
Speaker 1: insane because we didn't agree. Necessarily, we didn't agree, and
Speaker 1: we don't want to get too much into whose perspective
Speaker 1: was what, But we didn't agree and we were able
Speaker 1: to make make it through and come through stronger. And
Speaker 1: that resonated with me because so many times relationships are
Speaker 1: dismantled through tragedy, right or dismantled through a tough, stressful situation.
Speaker 1: But in this situation, it made us a lot closer
Speaker 1: because we learned that we we could trust each other,
Speaker 1: we could rely on each other, and that we always
Speaker 1: care about each other. You know, there was no point
Speaker 1: during this whole time where there was an argument where
Speaker 1: it was just like, well, I believe in and you're
Speaker 1: not considering my feelings. I don't ever at any point
Speaker 1: feeling like you never consider my feelings, not one time,
Speaker 1: not at all. And that was the earliest. You know,
Speaker 1: we speak so much about being a service as someone.
Speaker 1: That was the earliest moment where I think we did
Speaker 1: ourselves a disservice by not acting in a careful manners.
Speaker 1: So we were both doing ourselves a disservice as a
Speaker 1: group collectively or as a couple collectively and as individuals.
Speaker 1: But we did so much of a service to each
Speaker 1: other by being able to really have such a adult
Speaker 1: conversation at such a young age to figure out what
Speaker 1: was going to make the most sense for us moving forward.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's another question. It says, how does this
Speaker 1: conversation run abortion affect you now? And do you think
Speaker 1: there should be a political issue? Let me ask you,
Speaker 1: as a woman, do you think abortion should be a
Speaker 1: political absolutely not like there's just no there's there is
Speaker 1: no like politics. And a woman's body and her right
Speaker 1: to decide what happens to her body should never be
Speaker 1: a political issue. What should be an issue that when
Speaker 1: it comes to politics law all that is when instances
Speaker 1: like that happened and a woman is raped, for example,
Speaker 1: and she's forced to now bring forth this child who
Speaker 1: is conceived through rape, and then it's like, what measures
Speaker 1: are going to be taken to, um, hold this person
Speaker 1: accountable who raped her, and then you're potentially going to
Speaker 1: give him rights to this child too at the same time,
Speaker 1: like it's just so much, it's so convoluted to me
Speaker 1: at this point, um that nothing when it comes to
Speaker 1: a woman's body should ever be a part of a
Speaker 1: political debate. It just it doesn't make any sense to me, Like,
Speaker 1: like I just I don't even have much more to
Speaker 1: say about it because I'm just it's just a hard
Speaker 1: it's just a hard No, it's a hard note for me.
Speaker 1: It is a hard note for that's a medical decision
Speaker 1: that should be made between a woman and her provider
Speaker 1: and whoever the provider is. And doctors are shamed for
Speaker 1: it too, Like you just can't you can't be an O, B. G.
Speaker 1: Y And that's walking around here saying, yeah, I do
Speaker 1: this at my clinic. Like when we when this happened
Speaker 1: for us years ago, it might have been in a
Speaker 1: time where that was something that was offered and it
Speaker 1: was a little bit more accessible. Um. You know, now
Speaker 1: you have places like planned parenthood and people have more
Speaker 1: options to nowadays, UM, I feel like in having to
Speaker 1: talk about things like this, there are other options, like
Speaker 1: there's the Plan B pill now, which I don't think
Speaker 1: was available when we were going through this. That wasn't
Speaker 1: like an option now too. Um So there are different
Speaker 1: routes that people continue to ensure that you know, before
Speaker 1: this even becomes a situation where I need to seek
Speaker 1: out a termination, I have these resources that I can
Speaker 1: try ahead of time. UM. I don't think it should
Speaker 1: be a political issue, and the conversation around it affecting
Speaker 1: me now it just further reiterates to me that it's
Speaker 1: such a personal decision. It is really such a personal decision. Um.
Speaker 1: But like I said early on in the conversation that
Speaker 1: it's not just a personal decision for the woman. I
Speaker 1: feel like the person who got you there or y'all
Speaker 1: did this together. There should also be a conversation between
Speaker 1: both of you what what should be done or what
Speaker 1: the next steps will be taken. So, if you do
Speaker 1: decide to go forward and have a baby, right, what
Speaker 1: does that conversation look like between you and the father
Speaker 1: of this child. Are you considering what he's also thinking
Speaker 1: and feeling in this moment? You know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of different conversations needs to happen, because as much as
Speaker 1: it's a woman's right to her body and the right
Speaker 1: to her choice, she didn't get here alone. How did
Speaker 1: you feel as a guy in this, Like you know
Speaker 1: you're you said before, like pregnancy is not the thing
Speaker 1: that you have to necessarily go through, right, so you
Speaker 1: don't have to stop your life for anything. Really, um
Speaker 1: so like in that moment as a man, or as
Speaker 1: a young man where you conflicted it all with how
Speaker 1: to even approach me in the conversation to say how
Speaker 1: you really felt genuinely, it's interesting to hear to have
Speaker 1: to answer that question now because I'm going to be
Speaker 1: thirty nine this year, a father of four boys, so
Speaker 1: my perspective has changed a lot um mainly because I've
Speaker 1: also seen the effects that pregnancy has had on you,
Speaker 1: you know, almost losing you twice, So that puts me
Speaker 1: at fifty percent of the time when you were pregnant,
Speaker 1: there was a chance that you could have no longer
Speaker 1: been here. So these are things that I think people
Speaker 1: who are having opinions about abortions don't consider because a
Speaker 1: lot of people have opinions without having real world experience.
Speaker 1: For example, there's no way in the world a man
Speaker 1: that is pro life would say to her his wife,
Speaker 1: not gonna will uncle who was raped, for example, you
Speaker 1: have to have that baby, and your rapist is going
Speaker 1: to have rights over the child that he forcibly put
Speaker 1: into your body. So now you're not only being raped once,
Speaker 1: you're being raped over and over and over again by
Speaker 1: the state, because now the state is giving the rapist
Speaker 1: more rights over your body than you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: if you really just think about that, there's no way
Speaker 1: a sane person man becauld say that that's okay, young
Speaker 1: devout before having kids, before seeing what pregnancy can do
Speaker 1: to a woman's body. Was more along the lines of
Speaker 1: pro life. We don't know what this life is going
Speaker 1: to be. Why how could we take this life away
Speaker 1: before seeing what this could be? The next president of
Speaker 1: the United States, you know, that was one of the
Speaker 1: yea that was That was one of the things that
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I love her and she loves me,
Speaker 1: and everything's gonna be fine, and yeah, you can figure
Speaker 1: it out. Like it to me, it's hard to ask
Speaker 1: people to have an objective idea of thought about this
Speaker 1: because it is so like singular when it comes to
Speaker 1: what decision needs to be made for what woman, which
Speaker 1: is why it should be a personal decision based on
Speaker 1: that circumstances. Casting a wide net over all women, saying
Speaker 1: all women shouldn't be allowed to do something to me
Speaker 1: seems like it doesn't make any sense. So as a man,
Speaker 1: and I hate talking about this top topic because I
Speaker 1: feel like men shouldn't even have an opinion on something
Speaker 1: that's so personal to women. Because here's the thing. Men
Speaker 1: would hate it if if women came up with a
Speaker 1: law and said you have to get a sectomy by
Speaker 1: this time. You know what I'm saying, I think about it.
Speaker 1: Just think about that, if we're going to control all
Speaker 1: women's reproductive organs, imagine a council of women and said, well,
Speaker 1: we're all gonna get together now and all men passed
Speaker 1: the ages of thirty five, if you don't plan on
Speaker 1: having children, you gotta go get a a sectomy. Think
Speaker 1: about that, you know what I'm saying, Like like like,
Speaker 1: think about that? Or what if a young man is
Speaker 1: as testicular cancer And I remember one of my teammates
Speaker 1: in college had testicular cancer and he had to remove
Speaker 1: one of his are nuts, right, What if the rule
Speaker 1: was you can't do that surgery because that would limit
Speaker 1: your ability to reproduce, so you have to live with
Speaker 1: the cancer and possibly die. Because that's what they're doing
Speaker 1: to women now. Some women have to make a choice.
Speaker 1: If I have this child, I could lose my life.
Speaker 1: And now they're saying, well, you don't get a chance
Speaker 1: to choose your life, or the fetus is life. You
Speaker 1: have to go through it and see what happened topic
Speaker 1: and it's going to rupture your whole flopen and you're dying,
Speaker 1: which has happened in America. There have been young women
Speaker 1: who have lost their life because they couldn't get abortions,
Speaker 1: and they're like, that's just part for the course. Imagine
Speaker 1: imagine a council of women telling man, hey, listen, I
Speaker 1: know you got to sticular cancer and you don't plan
Speaker 1: on using your balls, but because of reproductive health politics,
Speaker 1: you can't get the surgery to remove it, and you
Speaker 1: got to see what happens with the cancer. Men would
Speaker 1: go crazy, But it's the truth, though, Like I feel
Speaker 1: like people need to understand that every situation is isolated
Speaker 1: and different and it should be left up to the
Speaker 1: people who are making the decision. And when I say people,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't just be left to the woman because two
Speaker 1: people sat down and decided unless it was forced on
Speaker 1: the woman. If it's forced on the woman, she didn't
Speaker 1: have a choice. So now since she didn't have a choice,
Speaker 1: my man's you don't have a choice. You put something
Speaker 1: in her body, she should decide. That's how I feel
Speaker 1: about it, honestly. But I do also feel like speaking
Speaker 1: about abortions as a man is man splinting, and it's
Speaker 1: highest level, and it's hard. Women are on the attack,
Speaker 1: like it's it's ridiculous. It's hard to even watch. When
Speaker 1: I watch some of the debates, I'm like, it's just
Speaker 1: really a debate, really, But I do want to applaud
Speaker 1: you because we need to go take a break. I
Speaker 1: do want to applaud you for being brave enough to
Speaker 1: say and this is what she said to me, babe.
Speaker 1: I may get some scrutiny, I may lose some followers,
Speaker 1: I may lose a following. I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 1: I wish I had someone to speak out on what
Speaker 1: they were going through before I even got pregnant. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to do that. Absolutely. I just hope that
Speaker 1: I just hope that it can help somebody, because that's
Speaker 1: the whole point of why we do what we do. UM,
Speaker 1: And that's the whole point of us trying to be
Speaker 1: vulnerable and transparent. So if this speaks to someone or
Speaker 1: someone you know, share the episode, UM, and just have
Speaker 1: the conversations early on, especially parents, like we're looking at
Speaker 1: ourselves in a different lens now, you know, us at
Speaker 1: that age versus us now so much more responsibility. We're
Speaker 1: raising the next generation of children. Um, These conversations have
Speaker 1: to be had. So let's take a quick break and
Speaker 1: we're gonna come get into y'all's business a little bit
Speaker 1: with our listening letters. So let's go pay some bills
Speaker 1: and come back, all right, y'all, And we're rolling right
Speaker 1: into listener letters, all right. So y'all continuing to write
Speaker 1: in So we love you for that. Thank you so
Speaker 1: so so so much. Hi. Family, First, I want you
Speaker 1: both to know how much of an inspiration you are
Speaker 1: to the culture. Thank you, especially after speaking about what
Speaker 1: we spoke about. This is the reason why we do it, y'all,
Speaker 1: So we love that. It's refreshing to see a couple
Speaker 1: love and support one another the way you do. So
Speaker 1: thank you for that example. Look at affirmations right out
Speaker 1: of the back. Thank you. I'm a twenty nine year
Speaker 1: old black woman and I am in love with my
Speaker 1: best friend. He's twenty nine, sixty months older than me,
Speaker 1: and we met freshman year in college. After the last
Speaker 1: twelve years, we've been through so much together. Both went
Speaker 1: to the military after college. He has two beautiful babies,
Speaker 1: failed relationships, etcetera. And now we both find ourselves single
Speaker 1: and loving on each other. Yes, the feelings same, mutual,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if he sees me the way
Speaker 1: I see him. I'm a lover to the core, and
Speaker 1: when I love, I love hard. He's everything to me.
Speaker 1: He makes me feel like I can accomplish anything and
Speaker 1: everything and still be his feminine woman, which isn't something
Speaker 1: that comes easy to me. The problem is he broke
Speaker 1: things off with his son's mother around the middle of
Speaker 1: two thousand twenty two, and ever since then, it's been
Speaker 1: me and him. If I call, he's coming. If I
Speaker 1: need him, he's there. It's just that I feel as
Speaker 1: though he only does it because he's lonely. We talked
Speaker 1: about a committed relationship before, but I don't feel secure
Speaker 1: and how that conversation went, it seems like he wants
Speaker 1: to have me in this capacity and still be able
Speaker 1: to mingle. I don't know what to do or how
Speaker 1: to explain to him how I'm feeling, because at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I don't want to lose my
Speaker 1: best friend. I love him and I know he loves me.
Speaker 1: Should I tell him how deep my love really runs
Speaker 1: for him? Or should I move on? Thanks in advance
Speaker 1: for me, tell me what it's going to you see yourself? Girls?
Speaker 1: See yeah, I about to say, girl, I shot my
Speaker 1: shot and look at me now, look at me now.
Speaker 1: And this is before I even thought the vow was
Speaker 1: going to be my best friend, my person, Like I
Speaker 1: don't even know if there's a word to describe like
Speaker 1: what you are to me, but you know, as close
Speaker 1: as we can get it too, your my person. You're
Speaker 1: my best friend, and I just feel like you need
Speaker 1: to say how you feel because it also may be
Speaker 1: a thing too where he feels the same way and
Speaker 1: he doesn't know what to say. It's like, how do
Speaker 1: I get myself out of this friend zone situation? You know?
Speaker 1: And sometimes people are purposely put in the friend zone
Speaker 1: situation because they know for sure they don't want anything
Speaker 1: more than that. But the fact that you two seem
Speaker 1: to have been kicking it for a long time, going
Speaker 1: through things that are very similar. He's gone a straight
Speaker 1: he's been out there, he had the babies and all that,
Speaker 1: and he's still there. He might just be waiting for
Speaker 1: you to make the most is So I say, shoot
Speaker 1: your shot, Steph Currie wish. That's what I was going
Speaker 1: to get to. He might be comfortable in that wet
Speaker 1: Now you have a friend with benefits. Clearly their friends
Speaker 1: with benefits. She didn't say that they were intimate, but
Speaker 1: I'm getting intimacy here are you? I'm getting She said
Speaker 1: love on each other. That's what I'm saying. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Specific That may be coword for she'd be
Speaker 1: dropping that thing on him and now they'ncomfortable being that.
Speaker 1: Now he may be comfortable being able to have his
Speaker 1: cake and eat it too since he's mingling with other women,
Speaker 1: but still can get some consistency. But I feel like
Speaker 1: that's not working for you. So when you ask, should
Speaker 1: I say something? Are you comfortable in this situation? No?
Speaker 1: So since you're not comfortable, speak on it, because you
Speaker 1: can't spend the rest of your life being a friend
Speaker 1: with benefits. So if you're not comfortable, now, what's the
Speaker 1: worst that could happen? You're no longer friends because he
Speaker 1: feels uncomfortable. You're uncomfortable anyway. Girls. Half the battle is
Speaker 1: trying to keep someone's attention. And you said that whenever
Speaker 1: you call, he's coming, you know, whenever you ring, he's there,
Speaker 1: So that in itself already shows that them other chicks
Speaker 1: that he may be mingling with Clarton don't mean that
Speaker 1: much to him if he's leaving, you know, um, And
Speaker 1: he might have been coming out of these relationships, and
Speaker 1: he called things off with his son's mother around the
Speaker 1: middle of it hasn't even been a year yet technically,
Speaker 1: so he might be just kind of like seeing, you know,
Speaker 1: enjoying himself being a little single for now, which is cool,
Speaker 1: which is fine, and he's entitled to do that. And
Speaker 1: then you know, if you express that and at least
Speaker 1: you have some clarity. I just hate lack of clarity.
Speaker 1: And then it gives you the choice to decide whether
Speaker 1: it's something you want to continue to nurture as a
Speaker 1: friendship or if you feel like, man, this friendship may
Speaker 1: be prohibiting me from then opening myself up to help
Speaker 1: up to meeting someone else too, because you may not
Speaker 1: want to be twenty nine and single forever. Right, So
Speaker 1: if it's not gonna work out for y'all, as that
Speaker 1: you might be able to then move forward saying all right, well,
Speaker 1: he's just going to continue be my friend. So the
Speaker 1: wireless question you can ask is should I have a
Speaker 1: conversation about it? If you're thinking about it, have a conversation.
Speaker 1: You know we're gonna tell you to have. There should
Speaker 1: be no conversation that they'd be going on conversed, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, always have the conversation and
Speaker 1: be prepared for whatever response you get. Don't have the
Speaker 1: conversation expecting a certain in response, because then you're going
Speaker 1: to be in for disappointment. Have the conversation and see
Speaker 1: where it goes. Absolutely good luck to you, since I
Speaker 1: hope it works out. Please hit me back and let
Speaker 1: me know like everything worked out, because you're not like
Speaker 1: a follow up. Number two. Hello, my name is Unice
Speaker 1: from New Jersey Becaudan and de Val. I'm a huge
Speaker 1: fan of both of y'all and your podcast is awesome.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Unice. I've been with my boyfriend for a
Speaker 1: decade and we both agree that we don't want to
Speaker 1: get married and have any children, and we are completely
Speaker 1: okay with that. Both sides of our family are not
Speaker 1: being accepted of our decision and it's making us not
Speaker 1: want to be around them no more. What should we do?
Speaker 1: Ps I already pre ordered your book. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for pre ordering our book. Thank you. This is
Speaker 1: very simple. Do not tailor make your relationship to anyone
Speaker 1: else's expectations because you will fail. Period. You will always
Speaker 1: fail at being what other people want you to be
Speaker 1: because you can only be what you want to be.
Speaker 1: This is very simple. You both agree that you don't
Speaker 1: want to get I didn have kids, but you love
Speaker 1: each other and want to be around each other. Do
Speaker 1: what makes you happy until it doesn't make you happy anymore, period.
Speaker 1: If it makes you happy to the end of time,
Speaker 1: stay that way. Don't let anybody else tell you that
Speaker 1: you have to get married or you have to have kids.
Speaker 1: That is not the case. Even us as a married
Speaker 1: couple who wrote a book called We Over Me about
Speaker 1: the advantages of being monogamous and married. Also believe that
Speaker 1: if two people agree that they don't want to be
Speaker 1: monogamous and be married and have kids should live in
Speaker 1: their ultimate happiness. It's giving forced philanthropy. And nobody wants
Speaker 1: to be a forced philanthropist. Okay, nobody want to force
Speaker 1: nobody to be of service to something that they don't
Speaker 1: want to be of service to. That's a sure fire
Speaker 1: way to be setting yourself up for a life of misery,
Speaker 1: do y'all. And if the family don't accept it, that's tough.
Speaker 1: They can make whatever decisions that they want, because half
Speaker 1: the time those family members are living in misery as well,
Speaker 1: and they, you know, just want that for you as
Speaker 1: well because they like the company. Don't do it, don't
Speaker 1: subscribe to it, period. And but but have the conversation
Speaker 1: with the family, like, yo, this is the last time
Speaker 1: mom discussing this fact. This is what we want from
Speaker 1: my life. And it doesn't matter what you say, what
Speaker 1: you do, how you say, and how you do what
Speaker 1: we're gonna do what's in the best sages of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Leave it alone, period, okay, point blank period. If you'd
Speaker 1: like to be featured as one of our listener letters,
Speaker 1: Now this is something we're gonna force you all to do,
Speaker 1: not just kid, We're going force you all to write
Speaker 1: to us because we want to hear from you. UM.
Speaker 1: Email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: And you don't have to be like unite and give
Speaker 1: your name. But what you do need to do is
Speaker 1: please purchase our book absolutely hard copy, prefer Blake. And
Speaker 1: that's D E A D A S S A D
Speaker 1: V I C E at gmail dot com. All Right,
Speaker 1: moment of truth time. So we're talking about UM. We
Speaker 1: over me from the pages of our book, UM, from
Speaker 1: the depths of our heart, being able to share this
Speaker 1: particular portion of our life with you guys. Ultimately, I
Speaker 1: just hope it helps someone like that's my moment of truth. UM.
Speaker 1: I can't go back in the past and change a
Speaker 1: decision that was made. And I'd like to think that, UM,
Speaker 1: the struggles that I've had with the decision that I
Speaker 1: did make, UM, I was able to make peace with
Speaker 1: with myself, with you, with God. UM. For a long time,
Speaker 1: I struggled with the idea that I would be punished
Speaker 1: in perpetuity and I would never have children. One day, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I honestly felt like that was just it for me,
Speaker 1: and that decision was going to haunt me for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life in the worst way possible. And
Speaker 1: look how wrong I was, Look how wrong I was.
Speaker 1: And I know there's a lot of women who struggle
Speaker 1: with that. UM. I know someone in particular that said
Speaker 1: she had one at seventeen and she cannot have children
Speaker 1: to this day and she feels like that's the reason why.
Speaker 1: It's a punishment and perpetuity for a decision that she
Speaker 1: made when she was a child. UM. So I just
Speaker 1: hope that this can help someone. And if you've ever
Speaker 1: been in that position, UM, and you require healing, because
Speaker 1: it does require healing. UM. I just hope that you
Speaker 1: if you don't have the support that you need, that
Speaker 1: you find it, UM, that you're able to overcome it,
Speaker 1: and that you're able to share and feel confident in
Speaker 1: sharing your story without shame and judgment, because it's necessary
Speaker 1: to have these conversation stions. Absolutely, my moment of truth
Speaker 1: is simple. The greatest gift you can give anyone is
Speaker 1: to inspire them to be better than they were yesterday.
Speaker 1: And through we over me, we are hoping to inspire
Speaker 1: as many people as we can to just be better
Speaker 1: humans so that the world can be a better place.
Speaker 1: That's a fact, all right, y'all. Be sure to follow
Speaker 1: us on Patreon if you have not signed up yet
Speaker 1: and subscribed. We have so much good exclusive content for y'all.
Speaker 1: You're going to see the dead As Podcast live shows
Speaker 1: in its full entirety, extended episodes, extended clips where we
Speaker 1: have rehashes and we chat with the crew after each episode,
Speaker 1: extended stuff with the family. You'll see more of the boys,
Speaker 1: so be sure to sign up there. And if you're
Speaker 1: not following the podcast page yet, please do so on
Speaker 1: social media at dead As the Podcast and you can
Speaker 1: find me at Cadena. I am on Instagram and TikTok
Speaker 1: and I am devout. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: be sure to rate, review, sub subscribe, and go right
Speaker 1: now and purchase. We over meet a hard copy baby,
Speaker 1: I am manifesting New York Times bestseller. We need your help, love, y'all.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you do that for us. We'll see you
Speaker 1: all next time. Peace. Oh who's coming on the book tour?
Speaker 1: Come on through. Oh that's right, we do have a
Speaker 1: book a little bit see him tell him dead Ass
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and
Speaker 1: is produced by the Nora Opinion and Triple Follow the
Speaker 1: podcast on social media at dead as to Podcast and
Speaker 1: Never Miss a Thing