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Speaker 1: M We're back. I'm Robert Evans podcasts Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 1: Bad people talk about him. This is part two of

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Speaker 1: our episode on the Sacklers. So you should have listened

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Speaker 1: to the first one by now, and this intro shouldn't

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Speaker 1: seem out of place if you haven't, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is going on, weirdo? Listen to listen to the episodes

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Speaker 1: in the right order. Now, this is not Memento. This

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Speaker 1: is Behind the Bastards. And this is and by this

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Speaker 1: I mean you James Heney, actor, comedian. Uh, street fighting champion,

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Speaker 1: Well I never won, but I've been in a street

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Speaker 1: fighter too. And uh, you get the blue blue plugs

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Speaker 1: in the zone. I'm in Alchemy. This. Yes, it airs

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Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Thursday. It's an improp show. We get

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Speaker 1: suggestions from the audience emails and it's with Kevin Pollock.

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Speaker 1: That Kevin Pollock. We have a live show May seven

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Speaker 1: at the Dynasty Typewriter Theater in downtown l A. I

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Speaker 1: really hope you're there. You specifically me, specifically, I might

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Speaker 1: be I might be a state. It was actually talking

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Speaker 1: to specifically to the listener, to the listeners. Specific Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're welcome to come, but I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to reserve a seat for you. I've stated my desire

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Speaker 1: that listeners gang up on the on the venue and

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Speaker 1: force their way in, and a mighty surge the weapons

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Speaker 1: was probably maybe too far. Well okay, but think about

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Speaker 1: think about it this way. Remember Escape from New York.

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Speaker 1: Pretty pretty cool movie. Sure, pretty fun movie. Remember the

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Speaker 1: sequel in l A when he has to shoot the

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Speaker 1: basketballs also a pretty cool movie. Yeah, I guess you're right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly what I if that was a comedy show, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be like the It would be like that.

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Speaker 1: It also reminds me of people were invading the theater

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Speaker 1: to see the show live armed. They'd be prepared if

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Speaker 1: it happened here, if it happened here, because which is

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Speaker 1: my other podcast? Yeah? Is that it? It could. Now

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Speaker 1: let's let's move off from that depressing topic to a

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Speaker 1: different depressing topic. The origins of our nightmares. Sh would

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Speaker 1: be at crisis. We've been talking about, of course, the

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Speaker 1: Sackler family, which you know most of these Sackler men are,

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Speaker 1: and where of course doctors uh, you know, from Arthur

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Speaker 1: down to Richard. But their real talent and passion seems

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Speaker 1: to have been for marketing rather than medicine. When OxyContin

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Speaker 1: first went onto the market, produced salesforce was around three

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Speaker 1: hundred people. By the end of a millennium, it had

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Speaker 1: doubled to more than six hundred people, equal to the

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Speaker 1: number of d agents fighting the abuse of prescription drugs.

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Speaker 1: That is most likely a coincidence, but that salesforce was

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Speaker 1: absolutely critical to Oxycontin's commercial success and the opiate epidemic

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Speaker 1: currently burning its way through the American heartland. I found

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Speaker 1: a great study on this published in the U S

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Speaker 1: National Library of Medicine, titled The Promotion and Marketing of

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Speaker 1: OxyContin Commercial Triumph, Public Health Tragedy. It lays out exactly

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Speaker 1: how Producee Pharmaceutical, at the direction of Richard Sackler, president

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Speaker 1: and co chairman of the board for the company, quote,

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Speaker 1: from nine to two thousand one, Produce conducted more than

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Speaker 1: forty national pain management and speaker training conferences it resorts

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Speaker 1: in Florida, Arizona, and California. More than five thousand physicians,

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Speaker 1: pharmacists and nurses attend to these all expenses paid symposia

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Speaker 1: where they were recruited and trained for produced National Speaker

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Speaker 1: Bureau is well documented. This kind of pharmaceutical company symposium

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Speaker 1: influences physicians prescribing, even though the physicians who attend such

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Speaker 1: symposia believe that such enticements do not alter their prescribing patterns.

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Speaker 1: One of the cornerstones that produce marketing plan was the

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Speaker 1: use of sophisticated marketing data to influence physicians prescribing. Drug

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Speaker 1: companies compile prescriber profiles and individual physicians detailing the prescribing

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Speaker 1: patterns of physicians nationwide, and an effort to influence doctors

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Speaker 1: prescribing habits. Through these profiles, a drug company can identify

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Speaker 1: the highest and lowest prescribers of particular drugs in a

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Speaker 1: single zip code, county, state, or the entire country. One

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Speaker 1: of the critical foundations of produced marketing plan for OxyContin

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Speaker 1: was to target the physicians who were highest prescribers for

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Speaker 1: opioids across the country. Another name for these guys would

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Speaker 1: be pill mill. Pill mill, that's what you've heard for

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Speaker 1: Producee Pharmaceuticals stated plan was to essentially make pill mills

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Speaker 1: happen by finding the doctors who were most willing to

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Speaker 1: just give anyone a prescription for opiates and then essentially

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Speaker 1: giving them more money having them speak at events and

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Speaker 1: flying them level marketing thing does It does kind of

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Speaker 1: sound like that kind of sounds like, Oh, you're really

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Speaker 1: good at selling these, Why don't you go speak to

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Speaker 1: other people and get them to get a little cut

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Speaker 1: of that? Yeah, that is kind of what was going on.

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Speaker 1: There's a pre trial memo from a case in Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: that's ongoing this year, and it includes a quote from

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Speaker 1: one of the promotional videos that Produe mailed with thousands

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Speaker 1: of doctors. Quote, There's no question that our best strongest

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Speaker 1: pain medications are the opioids. But these are the same

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Speaker 1: drugs that have a reputation for causing addiction and other

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Speaker 1: terrible things. Now, in fact, the rate of addiction amongst

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Speaker 1: pain patients who are treated by doctors is much less

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Speaker 1: than one percent. They don't wear out, they go on working,

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Speaker 1: they do not have serious medical side effects. What year

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Speaker 1: was that that would have been? Like, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to give him like it's it's it's terrible,

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Speaker 1: but it is only four years in before the whole

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Speaker 1: crisis is out of control. It is, but it's also why,

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Speaker 1: as one sales rep later total reporter quote, we were

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Speaker 1: directed to lie. Why when mens words about it. Greed

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Speaker 1: took hold and overruled everything. They saw that potential for

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars and just went after it. Sean Thatcher

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Speaker 1: was a produced sales up from two thousand nine to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen. He went into more detail on

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Speaker 1: this when he was deposed in court. Quote. High decile

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Speaker 1: prescribers were those who prescribed more produced drugs, or because

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Speaker 1: of their prescribing of other opioids, were potentially high prescribers.

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Speaker 1: They were priority targets for the sales team. Salesmen and

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Speaker 1: women were paid lavish bonuses for increasing OxyContin sales in

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Speaker 1: their territories, and two thousand one annual bonuses for sales

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Speaker 1: averaged seventy one thousand, five hundred dollars. Produce paid more

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Speaker 1: than forty million dollars that year to salesmen who managed

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Speaker 1: to convince doctors to prescribe more oxycontent. From n to

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Speaker 1: two thousand, Perdue increased its physician call list from between

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Speaker 1: thirty three and forty five thousand to between seventy and

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Speaker 1: ninety four thousand doctors. So they're just selling this ship

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Speaker 1: to doctors as hard as they can. Those people need

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Speaker 1: a degree and have to know anything about the sales

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Speaker 1: people under no circumstances. Why would why would they need

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Speaker 1: to know any amounts? Probably the less the better, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the less the better, the better you get it. You

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Speaker 1: don't have any bullshit in your head about helping people

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Speaker 1: about doing no harm. Haven't had to sign that hippocratic oath,

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Speaker 1: because that's the hippocratic oath. You don't want anybody who's

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Speaker 1: who knows what that is selling pills for you. Now,

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Speaker 1: one method that Perdue had to convince doctors to be

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Speaker 1: frequent prescribers was their coupon program. They would give doctors free,

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Speaker 1: limited time prescription coupons for their patients who are first

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Speaker 1: time users. These coupons were generally good for a seven

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Speaker 1: to thirty day supply of boxy content. Now, if your

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Speaker 1: school was anything like mine, you remember teachers worridly telling

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Speaker 1: you that drug dealers would regularly give out free pot

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Speaker 1: or heroin or whatever. Never never once. I mean that,

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Speaker 1: That's what I was told, is like, yeah, they'll give

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Speaker 1: you free stuff to get you addicted and then they

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Speaker 1: start charging you. I've never seen a drug dealer give

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Speaker 1: away free drugs like that, Not once have I ever

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Speaker 1: been like head to somebody, be like, here's some free heroin. Man,

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Speaker 1: you come back to me if you like it like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But at the same time they were probably teaching people

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Speaker 1: that would grow up to be sales exactly because that's

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Speaker 1: that that's that's that's where it actually was done. The business. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's Perdue actually did the thing that, like we joke

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Speaker 1: about our teachers telling us drug dealers did that. They

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Speaker 1: obviously didn't. It's fucking nuts. The company gave out more

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Speaker 1: than thirty four thousand coupons by the time they ended

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Speaker 1: the program in two thousand one. At that point, OxyContin

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Speaker 1: did not need any more help. Spreading doctors were also

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Speaker 1: bribed with lamer gifts, OxyContin, fishing hats, stuffed animals, and

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Speaker 1: CDs with titles like Get in the Swing with Walk

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Speaker 1: with Oxyconton, guessing it was swing music. Probably, how embarrassing

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Speaker 1: would it be for like you to be out with

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Speaker 1: your family with your dad wearing an oxycotton hat, like

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Speaker 1: going on the family road trip and popping in an

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Speaker 1: Oxyconton SKA album Real Addicted Fish Uh figure mighty mighty Addicts.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't figure that. Mighty mighty bosstons one,

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Speaker 1: we'll work shop it. According to the d e A,

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Speaker 1: no one had ever done this before with a schedule

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Speaker 1: to opioid. Perhaps there is a reason for that. Produce

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Speaker 1: sales people were also heavily targeted primary care doctors, but

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Speaker 1: two three, almost half of the doctors prescribing oxycontent were

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Speaker 1: primary care physicians. The National Institutes of Health explains why

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Speaker 1: this was an issue quote, some experts were concerned that

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Speaker 1: primary care physicians were not sufficiently trained in pain management

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Speaker 1: or addiction issues. Primary care physicians, particularly in a managed

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Speaker 1: care environment of time constraints, also had the least amount

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Speaker 1: of time for evaluation and follow up of patients with

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Speaker 1: complicated chronic pain, so they specifically targeted the kinds of

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Speaker 1: doctors who didn't have training and prescribing opiates and weren't

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Speaker 1: likely to check back in with patients to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they hadn't developed a problem. As a result, primary

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Speaker 1: care doctors kept prescribing and people kept getting addicted. Good

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Speaker 1: strategy for producing go to the dummy doctors. Go to

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Speaker 1: the doctors who don't know what or who you know,

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Speaker 1: like that's just not what they're supposed to do. Like before,

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Speaker 1: produced primary care physicians weren't handing out a lot of

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Speaker 1: opiate prescriptions. Now I'm not a I don't know a

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Speaker 1: lot about doctors, but isn't a primary care physician the

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Speaker 1: doctor you go to most regularly unless something is yeah,

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Speaker 1: unless something exactly, and you used to only get something

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Speaker 1: like oxycontent if some it was really wrong. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: think that those doctors would have some more investment in

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Speaker 1: a person that they hopefully know, like you're returning to

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Speaker 1: this person, they're going to have to see this person

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Speaker 1: deteriorate over time. I don't know that you are, because

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't have I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of these are like doctors at clinics and stuff,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have You know, if you don't have healthcare,

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Speaker 1: you're probably not going on a super regular basis, or

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Speaker 1: even if you do, Like I since I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: was the last time I don't want to say the

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Speaker 1: last time I've been to the doctor, but it's been

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Speaker 1: more than ten years. Yeah, I have. I have texted

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Speaker 1: some fans who were doctors questions in the past, and

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Speaker 1: that's like my health care plan. I've always thought primary

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Speaker 1: care was like, oh, that's your doctor, Like go find

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Speaker 1: what doctor you want. You go back to that Primarcare doctor.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what it is for some people, but

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of people, it's just like

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Speaker 1: the doctor at the dock in the box clinic, and

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Speaker 1: you know, they see you if you've got a problem,

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Speaker 1: and they're not going to check back in because it's

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Speaker 1: not their job. Before Purdue, most opioids were prescribed on

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Speaker 1: a long term basis were used for what's called malignant pain,

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Speaker 1: which is essentially like what cancer patients are going through,

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Speaker 1: pain that as the result of a deadly and ongoing illness.

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Speaker 1: Perdu aggressively pursued the idea that opiate should be for

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Speaker 1: any kind of pain, especially chronic pain. By the non

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Speaker 1: cancer pain related market had grown to be eight six

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Speaker 1: percent of the opioid market. Produce company training emphasized to

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Speaker 1: sales people at the risk of addiction with oxycont was

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Speaker 1: less than one percent. This was based on two large

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Speaker 1: studies that found addiction to opioids was not common with

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Speaker 1: people who have prescribed them after serious injuries like a burn.

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Speaker 1: None of the research produced based their less than one

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Speaker 1: percent stat on was done on people who were actually

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Speaker 1: given opioids for chronic pain. We know now that the

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Speaker 1: rate can be as high as fifty. So yeah, they

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Speaker 1: made the claim that like it it's not addictive based

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Speaker 1: on like someone would come in with like a serious

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Speaker 1: injury and they'd get like, okay, well, we'll give you

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Speaker 1: a month or two of oxy to deal with this.

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Speaker 1: Most of those people didn't get addicted, so they were like, see,

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Speaker 1: it's not addictive, but if you're given it for chronic pain,

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly easy to get addicted. But they weren't correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, because you're saying people get addicted

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Speaker 1: to Depending on the types of chronic pain, the rate

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Speaker 1: of addiction can be as high as fifty I would

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Speaker 1: expect that maybe addiction to the point of abuse and

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Speaker 1: throwing your life away. But wouldn't anybody like physically simply

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Speaker 1: become addicted because a chemical your doesn't your body assimilate

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Speaker 1: to any chemical it puts in there, Like, it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily So addiction is pretty complicated and a lot of

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Speaker 1: it has to do with the circumstances of your life. Um,

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Speaker 1: So generally, like you're less likely to get addicted if

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Speaker 1: you're like reasonably happy, if you're okay with like your situation.

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Speaker 1: So like an injury like a burn or something that

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Speaker 1: hurts for a little while, you might just use the

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Speaker 1: pain killers until the pain stops and you're unless Like,

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Speaker 1: but if you're in a chronic pain situation, because like

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Speaker 1: depression is so common with chronic pain, like, those people

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Speaker 1: are more likely to have other stuff that like it

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Speaker 1: makes them more vulnerable to to to being addicted to

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Speaker 1: because a lot of it is social, Like a lot

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Speaker 1: of it has to do with what's going on in

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Speaker 1: your life. It's why the rates of addiction out in

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Speaker 1: the country where there's not much going on is so

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Speaker 1: much higher. It's the same reason why the rate of

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Speaker 1: alcoholism and like Alaska is through the roof is because,

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of isolated people who don't have

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Speaker 1: much else to do. So I think it probably has

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Speaker 1: a lot to do with that. I just thought that

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Speaker 1: no matter what, if you took some drug to get

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Speaker 1: rid of pain, and you took it for a long

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Speaker 1: period of time, your body assimilates to having that drug

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Speaker 1: to not have pain. So is that not in itself?

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Speaker 1: It is, But these people, like the studies where they

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Speaker 1: said it wasn't addictive were based on people who just

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Speaker 1: were taking for a short time. You have a burn,

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Speaker 1: You're not taking it for months for a burn usually,

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Speaker 1: or even like a broken you know, bone or something like.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just to get you through the worst part

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Speaker 1: of it and then you stop. Then I was drawing

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Speaker 1: around conclusion for some reason. I thought we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the chronic pain. No, no, no, chronic pain. It's

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Speaker 1: super easy to get addicted to pain killers if they

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Speaker 1: prescribed for chronic pain. Sean Thatcher that sales were up

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Speaker 1: I quoted earlier, also alleged that he and his fellow

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Speaker 1: sales people were urged to use the term pseudo addiction

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Speaker 1: rather than addiction when talking about the risk of people

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Speaker 1: getting addicted to oxy content, or to make it seem

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Speaker 1: less love of problem. By the early two thousands, it

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Speaker 1: was clear that these strategies worked, so Produce kicked it

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Speaker 1: in a high gear. They bribed every single level of

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Speaker 1: the distribution chain, and they did it legally. In addition

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Speaker 1: to the free drug coupons for users, Produce gave wholesalers

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Speaker 1: rebates for keeping oxy content off their prior authorization lists.

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Speaker 1: These are lists healthcare companies keep of drugs and medical

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Speaker 1: devices that require extra approval before dispensation. Pretty also bribed

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Speaker 1: pharmacists by giving them free refunds for their first orders.

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Speaker 1: Medical researchers got grants, presumably to keep showing that oxycontent

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Speaker 1: wasn't addictive. Pretty also spent millions advertising in medical journals.

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Speaker 1: And here's one example you can see. Should I describe

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Speaker 1: the So it's a picture walking upstairs, take the next

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Speaker 1: step in pain relief? Well, that makes sense. The person

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Speaker 1: is going up the stairs. Oxy cotton of some letters

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Speaker 1: that I don't associate with anything, and rapid onset of

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Speaker 1: I don't know that word for six months. One to

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Speaker 1: start and stay with, easy to dose, easy to tyrate,

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Speaker 1: tight trate. Yeah, I know that word, tight trade. I

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Speaker 1: use it all the time. I was just tight trading. Uh.

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Speaker 1: To see this clearly, I had to hold it further

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Speaker 1: away from my face. So one to start and stay

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Speaker 1: with it sounds like start once you pop, you just

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Speaker 1: can't stop. Yeah it is. There's kind of a little

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Speaker 1: bit of like sinister in there, like one to start

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Speaker 1: and stay with, Yeah, take the next step in pain.

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Speaker 1: The intentions with this was never for chronic pain, but

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Speaker 1: that seems like it's targeted to chronic Oh no, that's

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Speaker 1: what they were trying to sell it for. It just

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Speaker 1: doesn't work well. For that just doesn't work because it's

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Speaker 1: going to be addictive. Yeah, it's going to be addictive,

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Speaker 1: and it's not going to like deal with the problem

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Speaker 1: like that. One of the things that they found particularly

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Speaker 1: recently is that it's just a bad idea to give

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Speaker 1: people opiates for chronic pain, like therefore acute pain and

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Speaker 1: therefore people who are dealing with like malignant pain. And

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Speaker 1: we're not going to solve all the problems today, But

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Speaker 1: what is the better option for chronic pain? I mean

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Speaker 1: usually a combination of like physical therapy. There are some

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Speaker 1: lighter sort of pain killers that can help a lot

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Speaker 1: of people do find relief with stuff like marijuana. Um,

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Speaker 1: but like if you're some of it is like just

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Speaker 1: dealing with a higher level of pain, which it had

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Speaker 1: to deal with pain. But it's better than a life

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Speaker 1: of being addicted exactly. It's it's a better and healthier

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Speaker 1: than that. And like you can have you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you use medication for help sleeping and stuff, but like

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Speaker 1: prescribing someone see content because they've got chronic back pain,

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Speaker 1: it just gets a lot of people killed. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it stops them from from healing in some cases, because

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Speaker 1: some of these things people can get better from, but

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Speaker 1: like then they just instead just do a lot of oxy.

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Speaker 1: So Perdue and the Sackler family also made certain to

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Speaker 1: donate piles and piles of cash to senators and congress

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Speaker 1: people and important committees. The company itself was fairly bipartisan,

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Speaker 1: but Richard Sackler preferred to donate to Republicans. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about his donations later. So the

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Speaker 1: bribery or legally distinct from bribery, occurred on every possible level,

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Speaker 1: but Perdue lavished most of its attention on doctors. Here's

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Speaker 1: Esquire again quote. We used to fly doctors to these seminar,

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Speaker 1: said Sherman, which were in practice just golf trips to

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Speaker 1: pebll Beach. It was graft. Though offering perks and freebes

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Speaker 1: to doctors was hardly uncommon in the industry, it was

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Speaker 1: unprecedented in the marketing of a schedule to a narcotic.

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Speaker 1: For some physicians, the junkets to sunny locales weren't enough

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Speaker 1: to persuade them to prescribe. To entice the holdouts, a

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Speaker 1: group the company referred to internally as problem doctors. The

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Speaker 1: reps would dangle the lure of produced lucrative speakers bureau.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was automatically approved, said Sherman. And we would set

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Speaker 1: up these little dinners and they'd make their fifteen minute

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Speaker 1: talk and they get five dollars. That's not bribery, because reasons,

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Speaker 1: because reasons, because reasons. It sounds like they're giving a speech.

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Speaker 1: It's not bribery. But the loophole is, yeah, the speech

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Speaker 1: just doing some sort of work exactly, it's it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's super shady um speaking of things that are shaped. No,

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Speaker 1: that's not a good way to pivot into the ad, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: I'm tail spending here. What do we what do we?

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Speaker 1: We gotta we gotta, we gotta put some daylight in

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Speaker 1: between that. Whenever I need to be saved, I do

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Speaker 1: commercial work. I'm a commercial actor. Oh yeah, well, could

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Speaker 1: you do a commercial for something on this table? Maybe

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be surprised how well I can change my voice.

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Speaker 1: Maybe these halls triple soothing action meant uh yeah, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: halls sometimes just the name. I'm ready to buy some halls, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Can we order a thousand of these? You at the listener,

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Speaker 1: order a thousand halls, and also order a thousand of

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Speaker 1: whatever products are advertised, unless it's again oxycontent, which I

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Speaker 1: hope is not being advertised on this podcast, although if

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Speaker 1: if they do, I want some free oxy, Sophie, can

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Speaker 1: we can we set that up. We can't set that up.

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Speaker 1: That would be a huge conflict of entrance products. We're back.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, those were great products. I threw my money

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Speaker 1: at the microphone, but nothing came out. And I know

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Speaker 1: I know you did. You did you have to throw

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Speaker 1: your money harder? Well, it's quarters. I figured i'd have

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Speaker 1: to throw it hard. I recommend everyone throw their money

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Speaker 1: at whatever is nearest to them. Uh it will. I'm

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Speaker 1: very hungover. Um, let's just let's just talk more about

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Speaker 1: the fucking sack all right? Uh? Perdu when the sackler's

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Speaker 1: face no consequences for any of their mouthfeasance until two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven, when the State of Virginia suthed their asses

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Speaker 1: from miss branding oxycontent in legallys miss Branding is a

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Speaker 1: wide term that includes outright lying about a medication, straight

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Speaker 1: and addictiveness. Three company executives pled guilty to misleading regulators

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Speaker 1: in a public statement. Produce said this quote. Nearly six

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Speaker 1: years and longer ago, some employees made or told other

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Speaker 1: employees to make certain statements about oxycontent to some healthcare

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Speaker 1: professionals that were inconsistent with the FDA approved prescribing information

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Speaker 1: for oxycontent and the express warnings that contained about risks

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Speaker 1: associated with the medicine. The statements also violated written company

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Speaker 1: policies requiring adherence to the prescribing information. We accept responsibility

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Speaker 1: for those past misstatements and regret that they were made.

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Speaker 1: It sounds pretty good. Oh yeah, of course if they

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Speaker 1: were they regretted they yeah, and they accept responsibility. So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's going to be paying back and

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Speaker 1: covering medical bills, right, I mean there there was actually

385
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Speaker 1: some of that. We'll get into what kind of payback

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Speaker 1: they had to give. The Sacklers were not forced to

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Speaker 1: take responsibility, however, so this is I guess I understood that. No,

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Speaker 1: this is just per due, and in fact they explicitly

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Speaker 1: None of the Sacklers were were implicated, especially not Richard Sackler,

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Speaker 1: former CEO of the company and co chairman of the board. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to propublic a quote Freedman, who by then had

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Speaker 1: risen to chief executive officer, was one of three Predue

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Speaker 1: executives who pled guilty to a misdemeanor of miss branding

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Speaker 1: oxy content. No members of the Sackler family were charged

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Speaker 1: or named as part of the plea agreement. The Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: lawsuit alleges that Sackler controlled Purdue board voted that the

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Speaker 1: three executives but no family members, should plead guilty as individuals.

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Speaker 1: After the case concluded, the Sacklers were concerned about maintaining

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Speaker 1: the allegiance of freedmen and the other executives, According to

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Speaker 1: the Massachusetts lawsuit, to protect the family, Produce paid the

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Speaker 1: two executives at least eight million dollars. At that lawsuit alleges,

402
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 1: so they did the mom thing. They had three of

403
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Speaker 1: their three of their made men go to like I mean,

404
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 1: they didn't actually go to jail, but like they got

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Speaker 1: like two or a half years probation and they got

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Speaker 1: community service. So they had three of their guys who

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Speaker 1: weren't members of the family give themselves up and then

408
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 1: they bribed them millions of dollars. And in theory, there's

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Speaker 1: two things I want to mention. First of all, when

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Speaker 1: you call it miss branding. It sounds like you're describing fraud.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand the difference. I think the difference is

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Speaker 1: that their lawyers preferred the term. I think miss branding

413
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 1: is like the legal honestly, I want to Fraud's much

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00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: nicer than miss branding. Asked me. Second question would be, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, so I guess we'll just leave it

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Speaker 1: a it's it's it's it's frustrating. Documents revealed that during

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Speaker 1: the trial showed that that's what it was. So they

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Speaker 1: sent their employees to go to jail, right, well, they

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Speaker 1: didn't go to jail, but sent that they That is

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Speaker 1: that not the way that shell companies do work. It's

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Speaker 1: the way work work. Yeah, it is exactly what happens.

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Speaker 1: You're and then you just open up a new company

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Speaker 1: or you have new people that start taking charge of

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Speaker 1: these things, and it's really shady because like one of

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Speaker 1: the things they said is that, well, no, Sackler was

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Speaker 1: had a direct position at the company since two thousand

427
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: and three I think it was, and that's or like

428
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,959
Speaker 1: that's when um or after two seven and like basically

429
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: Richard Sackler ran the company until they got into legal trouble.

430
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 1: And then they promoted this guy Freedman to CEO, and

431
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 1: Richard stepped back and was just on the board. But

432
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,479
Speaker 1: the majority of Pretty board has always been Sackler family members.

433
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: Even though they were claiming so they could say that, like, well,

434
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: none of them work for the company. What's because they're

435
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: running it and getting all of the profits from the company. Yeah,

436
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: it's very, very shady. It's structured like a criminal enterprise,

437
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,919
Speaker 1: but is legally distinct from one because they have more

438
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 1: lawyers than mafia dons. Yeah, which is hard to do too,

439
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: which is that they because mafiadans do have a lot

440
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: of layers. Yeah. In two thousand sixteen, fifty three thousand

441
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: Americans died from opioid overdosesdifty three thousand. For comparison, only

442
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand Americans died from gun violence. For more comparison,

443
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 1: that is roughly the same number of Americans dying in

444
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: one year has died throughout the duration of the war

445
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: in Vietnam. Yeah, two thousand and sixteen, Just two thousand

446
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: and sixteen. Chris Christie had of the Commission on Combating

447
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis, recently noted that opiates

448
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: kill roughly one hundred and forty two Americans per day,

449
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: which he noted was a September eleven every three weeks.

450
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: Not only a Chris Christie guy, but that's a good comparison.

451
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: It's very rare that I'm a In fact, I refused

452
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: to be Chris Christi guy, even now he did happen

453
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: to accident. He made one good point. One good point.

454
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: He made one good point. And that's a good point.

455
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: Since than two hundred thousand Americans are believed to have

456
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: died from overdosing on prescription pain medication, that is roughly

457
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: half of the number of Americans who died fighting in

458
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,239
Speaker 1: the Second World War. Yeah, as part of that two

459
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: thousand seven plea agreement, Predue Pharmaceuticals was forced to pay

460
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: more than six hundred million dollars in fines, which is

461
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: simultaneously one of the largest such fines ever leveled on

462
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: a company and a slap on the wrist. You want

463
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: to guess what produced total profits for boxy content are,

464
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say it's gotta be over multiple billions, right,

465
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: multiple billions is one way to put it. It's at

466
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: least thirty five billion dollars. Six hundred million dollars doesn't

467
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: sound like much of a fine, does not. It's a

468
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: drop in a bucket. It's a drop in a bucket.

469
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: No members of the Sackler family admitted to do any wrongdoing,

470
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: but they in the company's board were all forced to

471
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: pinky swear that the company would not break the law again.

472
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: So that's something, right, you know, I feel like we

473
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: can trust. Well, it depends on whether or not they're

474
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 1: couldn't not break the law. Well, let's read the next

475
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: It's a good start. The plea agreement also included a

476
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: non prosecution agreement similar to the one Jeffrey Epstein signed.

477
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: It basically made the Sacklers and company executives immune to

478
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: any new criminal litigation based on activity that occurred before

479
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. Since none of the Sacklers have been

480
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: executives at produced since that point, it's likely they're pretty

481
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: safe from the possible consequences for their crimes. That was

482
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: the plan. That's absolute. It's really frustrating, right, really pisses

483
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: you off. Yeah, speaking of their crimes, the Sackler family

484
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: has done extraordinarily well off of oxy content. Before the

485
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: drug they were just multimillionaires now, their families worth in

486
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: estimated fourteen billion dollars, perhaps much much more. Forbes put

487
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: them on its list of America's richest families in two

488
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, a sign of how quickly they rose with

489
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: the help of America's deadly at drug. We have mostly

490
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: focused on Richard Sackler in this episode, and he is

491
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: the man morally most culpable, but Sackler family members made

492
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: up the majority of Produce Pharmaceuticals Board for the entirety

493
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 1: of the time. We've discussed the Sacklers as a family

494
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: run the company, and they are notoriously tight lipped about

495
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: the source of their wealth. During his eleven hour deposition

496
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: in Kentucky in two thousand seventeen, Richard Sackler said quote,

497
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. More than a hundred times he failed

498
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: to recall exactly how much money his family had netted

499
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: from the drug. He confirmed it was more than a billion,

500
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: and said I don't think so when asked if it

501
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: was more than ten billion. While the Sacklers got unspeakably

502
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: rich off oxy content, the United States as a nation

503
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: has suffered greatly. According to the American Public Health Association

504
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen, the economic impact of opioid use

505
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: totaled around eighty billion dollars, and that was in two

506
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, before the opiate crisis hit its peak. A

507
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen paper by Princeton economist Alan Krueger suggests

508
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: that opioid addiction is responsible for fully twenty of the

509
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: decline in labor force participation from two thousand and fifteen.

510
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: It is unlikely that the full extent of the damage

511
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: caused by the sacklers and produce pharmaceutical will ever be known.

512
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: Cool did they create the hunger for a world of fentanyl? Yeah?

513
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: Oh I don't. I don't see a world with fentanyl.

514
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't for them, it would exist, putting down the

515
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: red carpet of the oxycont mm hmm. I think if

516
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: if oxyconton hadn't existed, our problems with fentonyl would be

517
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: veterans who got injured in the field and prescribed fentyl

518
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: maybe continue, like with Vietnam and morphine and stuff like.

519
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: I think that would have still been a problem because

520
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you you lose a leg to

521
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: a car bomb or whatever, and they give you a

522
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: fentnyl lollipop and they shoot you full of it for

523
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: weeks and then you come home and you're addicted. But

524
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: I don't think the whole towns would be being wiped

525
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: out in the in the Midwest, in the Northeast, and

526
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: the rural America would be suffering the way it is.

527
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: I think that's all on I think the hunger for

528
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: fentanyl in the US consumes something like nine of the

529
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: world's pain killers. Like we're not of the world, Like

530
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: there's not of the world's pain Yeah, yeah, Like it's incredible. Um,

531
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: it's it's just incredible. Near the end of the deposition,

532
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: a lawyer for the state of Kentucky asked Richard Zackley, this,

533
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: sitting here today, after all you've come to learn as

534
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: a witness, do you believe that produced conduct and market

535
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: and promoting OxyContin in Kentucky caused any of the prescription

536
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: A drug addiction problems now plaguing the commonwealth. Sackler's response was,

537
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: I don't believe so. Shockingly, there's still more to say,

538
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 1: because in two thousand nineteen, a bunch of information from

539
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: several depositions was finally released onto the public record after

540
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: a year's long fight by Purdue to keep it hidden.

541
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: Among other things, this information revealed that co chairman Richard

542
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: Sackler continue to have a major role in pushing oxycontent

543
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: sales after two thousand seven. According to stat News quote,

544
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, he decided to shadow sales reps

545
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: for a week to make sure his orders were followed.

546
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: The complaint states Wressell Ghastia, then the company's vice president

547
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: of sales and marketing, who was also a defendant in

548
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: the Massachusetts lawsuit, went to produce chief compliance officer to

549
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: warn that if Sackler directly promoted opioids, it was a

550
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: potential compliance risk l o L. The compliance officer replied,

551
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: according to the complaint, other staff raised concerns, but they

552
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: ultimately said that Richard needs to be mom and anonymous

553
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: when he went to the field. So Richard was going

554
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: into the field following sales reps around to find make

555
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: sure they were pushing OxyContin enough. In two thousand eleven,

556
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: four years after the law suit, four years after the loss,

557
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: four years after his company was sued for sake, he

558
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: just kept on pushing that he was brave. He was

559
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: as addicted to the money as America was to oxy.

560
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: I'd like to see him have to take some I

561
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: don't know, crocodile tears and then take it away from him. Yeah, yeah,

562
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: i'd like I think anything with people like this, you

563
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: should just take away all their money and make them

564
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: live like normal people in an apartment. We'll also get predicted,

565
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't wish that in anybody, But I feel

566
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 1: like you reap what you so I feel like in

567
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: this case, yeah, forced addiction to an opiate might be

568
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: might be fair for Richard Sackler give a little taste

569
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: of his own medicine. Literally, speaking of tasting your own medicine,

570
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: I've been eating halls again. I don't know if you

571
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: can smell it all the way over there. It's my favorite.

572
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: It sounds triple soothing. What if I was to tell

573
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: you I had a dollar seventy five for a bus

574
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: ride to Venice speech and I could give you five

575
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: dollars to give speeches if you sold thousands of halls.

576
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: Thousands of halls you mean you mean sell them to

577
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: my readers, tell them about the mental costs of pressent oral.

578
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't care who you give these halls too, But

579
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: if you can get rid of a bunch of them.

580
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: I got a crate of halls free trip to Venice

581
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: on a bus, on a bus, buy some halls. Uh,

582
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: And you're not as good at commercial I'm not. I'm not.

583
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: I would not be able to eat if this were

584
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: my job. Products, We're back, Sophie. Sophie approves of that.

585
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: And two thousand nine and produced sales manager wrote a

586
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: warning letter to a company executive stating that he had

587
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: found perdue employees were pushing opioids on an illegal pill mill.

588
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: He asked, I feel very certain this is an organized

589
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: drug rain. Shouldn't the d A be contacted about this?

590
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: Produce took no action for two years? Why would they?

591
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: So far rampant dishonesty had netted them tens of billions

592
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: of dollars in profits and one tiny fine. Now I

593
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: feel like we should probably end by talking just a

594
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: bit about how the Sackler family decided to spend their

595
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: vast wealth have donated much of it to museums like

596
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: the Googgenheim and the Tate and the Louver in the

597
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: Middle Oughts. Before any of this was public knowledge. Their

598
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: generosity granted the Sackers a reputation as himlinded philanthropists, but

599
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: they did not only donate to museums. I'd like to

600
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: quote from sledge Now, a website that specializes in revealing

601
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: gross donations made to shady organizations by terrible people. Quote.

602
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: From two thousand fourteen to sixteen, the Richard and Beth

603
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: Sackler Foundation donated seven seven hundred dollars to the Middle

604
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: East Forum in addition to a hundred and fifty and

605
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Middle East Forum is at the center

606
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: of an Islamophobia network. According to the Center for American Progress,

607
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: the Forum promotes American interests in the Middle East and

608
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats and protects the

609
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: freedoms of anti Islamist authors. According to its website, the

610
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern Forum funded anti Muslim rallies in London and UH,

611
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: including some rallies for a guy named Tommy Robinson who

612
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: was essentially a Nazi like like literal Nazi Tommy Robinson.

613
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: The Middle East Forum funded him to do rallies and

614
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: live and stuff and continue being a Nazi UH and

615
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: they got a lot of money from the Sackler family. UM.

616
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: The founder of the Middle East Form, Daniel Pipes, gave

617
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: a speech in two thousand seventeen in which he said, quote,

618
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: Muslim imigrants want to replace existing European civilization with Islam.

619
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: You may recognize this sentiment is essentially the same thing

620
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: that the christ Church shooter wrote out in a seventy

621
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: three page manifesto before murdering fifty people in a mosque. Again,

622
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Daniel Pipes received money from Richard and Beth Sackler. The

623
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: Sacklers also gave money to Stephen Emerson, founder of the

624
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: Investigative Project on Terrorism and That Role. Emerson has claimed

625
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: that Islam quote sanctions genocide, planned genocide as part of

626
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: its religious doctrine. He has submitted faked FBI documents to

627
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: news outlets in order to claim that American Muslim organizations

628
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: are actually terrorist groups. Two fifteen, the Richard and Beth

629
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: Sackler Foundation gave fifteen thousand dollars to an Islamophobic group

630
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: called Ghadwatch. That same year, they also gave eleven thousand,

631
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: five hundred to the American Defense Initiative formerly known as

632
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: Stop is Islamization of America. These are just public donations.

633
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: Hate groups tend received most of their funding from donor

634
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: advised funds. Which are public charities that basically dontle money

635
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: from anonymous rich people into groups that they don't want

636
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: people to know they're donating to. So we know on

637
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: paper that the Sacklers have donated tens of thousands of

638
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: dollars to hate and hate adjacent groups. The real number

639
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: of their donations may be much higher, and in fact

640
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: probably is. What's terrible is they're putting all this money

641
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: to hate groups and anti Muslim groups. But when you

642
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: look at it, and I'm not an expert, I don't

643
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: know the numbers, but I'd bet money right here, right

644
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: now that more people have died from oxyconton than terror.

645
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean more people die from OxyContin in

646
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: a day than have died from More Americans die from

647
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: OxyContin in a day than have been killed by all

648
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: of ices, and more total people have been killed by

649
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: oxycontent than ISIS has killed, even in Iraq and Syria. Um,

650
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: not that they haven't killed a lot of people, but

651
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: like sucking, oxyconton is killed way more like it's a lot.

652
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: To me, I'm not afraid of terrorism because it's not

653
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: it's terrorized. It's a pretty niche risk. Whereas I know

654
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: people who have had horrible pill problems. I am so

655
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: afraid for my nieces and nephew y. I don't think

656
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: they would have for do it, but that's what I'm

657
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: afraid of. It that strikes fear into me. More of

658
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: a threat, yeah, way more of a threat. Yeah. Oh.

659
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: I should also note that the Richard and Best Sackler

660
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: Foundation donated money to True the Vote in two thousand sixteen.

661
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: That is the voter fraud rotchdog that was the source

662
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's claim that three million illegal immigrants voted

663
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and sixteen elections. So they gave

664
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: money to those guys too. Now, the good news, and

665
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: there is at least a little bit of good news,

666
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: is that all of the recent press about the rampant

667
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: crimes of Perdue with the direction of the Sackler family,

668
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: has led to a number of their favorite foundations and

669
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: museums to stop accepting their donations. Some of this is

670
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: due to a protest at the Goggenheim earlier this year,

671
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: activist dumped like a you know, you know that comment

672
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: Richard Sackler made about like a blizzard of prescriptions. So

673
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of activists went to the Guggenheim and dropped

674
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: like a literal blizzard of prescription papers and like the

675
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: central foyer down like a couple of stairs and stuff,

676
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: and you know, the Guggenheim announced that they would not

677
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: be taking any more Sackler money. And the tape, yeah, yeah,

678
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: the tape made the same thing. Britain's National Portrait Gallery

679
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: canceled reception of a one point three million dollar donation

680
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: from the family. So like, these people are so toxic

681
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: that charities are turning down their money now, although probably

682
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: not the racist ones, probably not the racist one. Additional

683
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: lawsuits have begun to stack up against Perdue Pharmaceuticals, some

684
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: targeting the Sacklers themselves for their involvement in company crimes

685
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: after two thousand seven. Last March, Perdu and the Sacklers

686
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: agreed to pay two hundred and seventy million dollars to

687
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: the state of Oklahoma. Seventy five million dollars of that

688
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: will come directly from the Sackler family. The suit in

689
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: Massachusetts is still ongoing, and last March another lawsuit was

690
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: filed in the state of New York. This lawsuit also

691
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: rests heavily on claims that the Sackler family are personally

692
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: to blame for a huge amount of the opiate crisis.

693
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to quote from NPRS coverage of that now quote.

694
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: New York's two hundred and fifty one page suit claims

695
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: to offer new details of how the Sacklers serving on

696
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: produced board pushed year after year to boost the sale

697
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: and consumption of their powerful opioid medications, reaping huge profits

698
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: even as evidence mounted that the drugs post a deadly risk.

699
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: State officials claim they squeeze the company, funneling billions of

700
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: dollars out of its coffers into a complex network of trusts, subsidiaries,

701
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: and private offshore accounts. We allege that the family has

702
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: illicitly transferred funds from Purdue to personal trusts so that

703
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: they are potentially outside the reach of law enforcement and

704
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: our efforts to seek restitution. Oh my unrelated note, as

705
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: the airing of this podcast, approximately a hundred and forty

706
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: five Americans die every day from opiot overdoses. So that's insane.

707
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: Ticked up a couple since that's sixteen. That's the story,

708
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: so and the one of the there's so many bad

709
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: parts of this story, but my one of my concerns

710
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: it seems like there's no consequences to this. It seems

711
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: like this is still there's nothing changing. Yeah, so is

712
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: that where something it's it's just not fair. The health

713
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: system has to change or else. This is not as

714
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: long as there's profit. This might be an like the

715
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: worst of it. But as long as there's profit going on,

716
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: isn't this what we would expect from our health system?

717
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if if, if you are making for profit

718
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: pain medication, all you care about is that you don't

719
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: care that they're using it for pain. You just cared

720
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: that they're using it. If you don't take the profit out,

721
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: then you can't eliminate that. Yeah, it seems like it

722
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: might be an inevitable consequence of the system as it

723
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: is set up. And I'm sure everyone else is at

724
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: wondering this. I should have asked earlier. When you say perdue,

725
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: you do mean the Chicken company, right? No? Oh my god,

726
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So it's not. Oh my god, I'm

727
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: so sorry. I thought were talking about the Chicken Company

728
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: this whole time. No, no, no, I'm kidding. I'm sorry.

729
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: You looked at me like you really thought it was serious.

730
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. And one of the best things I

731
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: could do is say the dumbest thing. The only chicken

732
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: company I know is Tyson, because the little town in

733
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: Oklahoma where I grew up had a Tyson chicken plant.

734
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: So that's that's what I think about. And also the

735
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: little town in Oklahoma where I grew up has a

736
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: crippling oxy contin problem, killing, killing a lot of people

737
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: in it about good times? Good times? Do you think

738
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: that there's a Do you think that we've learned a

739
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: lesson and that with things like fent and all that

740
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: are taking over oxycotton, we're going to tighten up the

741
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: rules that we have on these abusable drugs. I suspect

742
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: we will continue punishing the users rather than punishing problem

743
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: people like Richard Sach. I mean, it looks like the

744
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: opioid crisis is such a bipartisan thing. Everybody knows what

745
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: a problem it is, and it's like it's it's not

746
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: one of those things like climate change that a lot

747
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: of chunks of the country don't believe in. Like everybody

748
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: knows it's a thing, and so there might be serious

749
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: consequences for the sack attentions on it. Now. I hope

750
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: that we use this attention to do something. Yeah, I

751
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: hope they all wind up in a cell um. I

752
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: I would like that for the Sackler family. I would

753
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: like them to lose all their money and be in

754
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: a prison cell because they killed two d thousand people. Ish,

755
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: what what they did is legally distinct from murder. I'll

756
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: agree to that. But they killed a lot of people

757
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: with their greed and corruption. And I mean they're not incompetence,

758
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: very competent, very competent scheme to addict America to pain killers,

759
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: but like a trained assassin of the American dream. Yeah,

760
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: like a trained assassin of the American dream. Like you

761
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: hired someone to kill the American heartland and they were

762
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: just like, what have we just fled it with pills?

763
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: A little bitty white pills worked great, good plan, pretty

764
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: pretty cool, pretty cool and good. It's times like these

765
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: I wished I believed that there was something to punish

766
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: them in the afterlife. That would be nice, That would

767
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: be nice. I feel like if there was a bolt

768
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: of lightning would have struck Richardson at some point, like

769
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: when he heard that people had died in Massachusetts and

770
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: was like, it could be worse. It could have been,

771
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: could have been as bad as it's gonna get. Uh So, Uh,

772
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: that's that's the episode, James. You want to plug some

773
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: plugables before we push out here? Well, yeah, of course

774
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: I would. Alchemy this comes out every Tuesday and Thursday.

775
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: It's improv inspired by the user's mail email. Uh So,

776
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: please check that out and if you can, on May seven,

777
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: at the Dynasty type of the theater in downtown Los Angeles,

778
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a live recording of it at eight pm.

779
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: Means and I will be on Behind the Bastards dot

780
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: com and at Bastard Pod on Instagram and Twitter, although

781
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: Sophie manages both of those because I don't know how

782
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: to use Instagram and it scares me. I know Beyonce

783
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: is on there, and I don't know how to how

784
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: to interact with that. Huh is that who's on your shirt?

785
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: I don't know much about Beyonce. I mean, I don't.

786
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: I just don't know much about her. I know she's

787
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: on the Graham. I know she's big, a big Grammar.

788
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: She's Graham and hardcore, but I don't know how to

789
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: use the Graham. I just I just tried to use

790
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: Snapchat for the first time yesterday and it scared me

791
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: and I threw my phone in the trash and I

792
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: haven't picked those are expensive. I would not throw your

793
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: phone around. I would just uninstall thee that. I don't

794
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: know how to do that. I'm so sorry. Anything I

795
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: know how to do is Twitter, and I do too

796
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: much Twitter. Well, you know how to do a damn

797
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: good podcast or two? I would say, there's a new

798
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: one that you've got coming out? That is there, Sophy?

799
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: Do we have another podcast? Well, if it's not new,

800
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: it's but it's new to me because I haven't heard

801
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: it yet, and I'm excited. What what? What is that?

802
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: What is the podcast? It could happen here? When I like,

803
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: it's a scary thing. But honestly, when we go through

804
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 1: two hours of talking about oxy cotton and people getting

805
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: away with it, there's a six side of myself that wonders,

806
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: if it happening here might be it won't all be bad.

807
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: I think that maybe some people might pay for serious

808
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: consequences for what they've done. Yeah, but I don't want

809
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: to say that. I don't want to sound like an anarchist.

810
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: I'm okay with sounding like an anarchist. I will say this.

811
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: I hope that it doesn't happen here, but if it does,

812
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: I hope one of the few positive aspects of it

813
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: is that people like the Sacklers are punished. Yeah. Yeah,

814
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't be able to rule without yeah, without balance,

815
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: without some sort of somebody controlling that. You know, people

816
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't be going to prison for sixty years for selling pot.

817
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: And then Richard Sackler gets fourteen billion dollars, Like that

818
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: doesn't seem fair to me. Well, he paid six million

819
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: and he did well, his company did he it's seventy

820
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: he did have to just now billions. You haven't been punished, Yeah,

821
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: you haven't been punished. Yeah. It's like if you steal

822
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: a million dollars from somebody's house and the cops when

823
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 1: they arrest you, make you pay a thousand dollars. It's like, well,

824
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: this was worth it. This, I won't do this tomorrow.

825
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't believe I'll do this again. Yeah, got him again,

826
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: Get him again? You'll believe word? Yeah, I believe. Really

827
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: a lot of heavy lifting being done by the word

828
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: believe in pretty pharmaceutical acts. All right, Well, this has

829
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: been the podcast I've been Robert Evans buy a shirt

830
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 1: off of Tea Public. Sophie grabs her shirt and shakes

831
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: it whenever it's time for me to mention the shirts

832
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: because I always forget. So get a shirt on Tea Public.

833
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: Get some of our branded behind the bastards. Hydrocode on

834
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 1: not OxyContin for some reason that I don't understand, but

835
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: it's got my face on it. We can't do that.

836
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: You're telling me that's that's drug dealing, But I just

837
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: we could. I just heard about a guy who made

838
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: thirty four billion dollars stealing drugs. Can we use that not? Okay? Okay,

839
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: Well apparently we have to stop doing that. Uh, this

840
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: is the end of the episode. It's done. It's finished, Daniel.

841
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: Are you going to turn off the episode? Is it?

842
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: Or is it time to do that? Is it time

843
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: to do that? Am I going on too long again?

844
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: If I, like I do have that freedom, this is

845
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: a lot of power because nobody can go until I

846
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: finished the episode. So this is like I know this,

847
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: no one at home is enjoying this, but I'm feeling

848
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 1: such a rush right now, like I'm holding the world

849
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: and the all right side. It's done.