1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. On Tuesday, June fourth, twenty nineteen, 2 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: the dead body of a female was discovered that the 3 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: residence of former Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins Smith. The 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. The 5 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: Randolph County Sheriff's Office responded to the scene that around 6 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: five forty five PM and immediately began securing the crime scene. 7 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: The Arkansas State Police Criminal Investigation Division was dispatched to 8 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: the scene along with forensic examiners from the Arkansas State 9 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: Crime Lab a little rock. The body has been sent 10 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: for an autopsy to determine the positive identification and cause 11 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: of death. What happened and absolutely gorgeous Arkansas State senator 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: body found shot dead and wrapped in a blanket outside 13 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: her home. To top it all off, her husband, her 14 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: ex husband, a judge. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 15 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. What in the hay 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: happened to Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins with me an 17 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: all star panel, Dave Mac, doctor Michelle Duprey, Ashley Kelly, 18 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: and Daryl Cohen. First to You, Syndicated talk show host 19 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: Dave Mack Dave Mack. What happened for an Arkansas state 20 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: senator to be found dead and wrapped in a blanket. 21 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: Just let's just start with how her body was found. 22 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: About a day or two before her body was found, 23 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: neighbors heard gunshots, okay, when her body was found. When 24 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: they went on a welfare check, they found her deceased 25 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: body wrapped in a blanket. And apparently it was you know, 26 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: hot and everything else, so you've got decomposition. That's why 27 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: they couldn't even determine quickly what had happened. Okay, you 28 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: know to doctor Michel du Pree, we're now a medical 29 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: examiner out of South Carolina and author of Homicide Investigation 30 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: fuel Guide, how badly does it hurt an investigation when 31 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: the body is left in hot weather Financia. Of course, 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: hotter weather makes the body decompose faster, and of course 33 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: that there is any injuries, the body will decompose out 34 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: those injuries even more fast. So it can be very 35 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: difficult to do to determine who that is. You know, 36 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: I know it's harsh to think of it this way, 37 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: but think about a piece of fruit that you let 38 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: sit there and decompose. The warmer the weather, the more 39 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: rapidly the fruit decomposes. Same thing with a human body. 40 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this from our friends at THHV eleven. 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: This is Jordan Hollington's deputy is joined by Arkansas State 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: Police's criminal investigation team. A sea of investigators spotted combing 43 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: through the former state senator's property. Neighbors living around the 44 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: crime scene chose not to go on camera because they 45 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: said they're scared to speak out, but they said this 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: whole ordeal is like a mystery. Colin Smith's home located 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: right off Highway ninety in the Edgewood neighborhood, one that 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: people here told us off camera is typically quiet. You 49 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: can see the vehicles behind the crime scene tape. Neighbors 50 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: told us the red truck belongs to the former senator. 51 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: That's the vehicle she was spotted driving in about two 52 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: weeks ago, and the others we are told belonged to 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: her father and son. As investigators arrived, neighbors said those 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: vehicles were left on the property. The body found outside 55 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: the home has since been taken to the state crime lab. 56 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: The condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. There, 57 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: they'll determine the cause of debt. Wow. Okay, back to 58 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: doctor Michelle d Pre, medical examiner from South Carolina dot 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: door du Pre, they could not even identify the body 60 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: and a decomposed so much. But come on, it's wrapped 61 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: in a piece of carpet and it's outside her home 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,839 Speaker 1: and she's missing. I mean, how could it have decomposed 63 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: so rapidly they can't even identify it? Nancy, that very 64 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: well may be because of the injuries and where the 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: injuries are. Injuries will decompose a lot faster than the 66 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: normal intact skin or tissue, so I suspect that this 67 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: is partly due to the injuries. So bottom line, what 68 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: they're saying is they can't look at her face and 69 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: identify her. Okay, that means her face was either so 70 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: badly injured, say from a gunshot, wound or bludgeoning, they 71 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: can't make a facial recognition identification. Daryl co and criminal 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: defense attorney joining me out of Atlanta. You can find 73 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: them at Darrell co and dot TV. Darryl. That's every 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: murderer's dream for the body to go, you know, unfound. 75 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: For the longer the better delay. Delay delay is a 76 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,119 Speaker 1: defendant's friend and then the body's so decomposed you can't 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: make an id. Why does that cause murder perps to 78 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: dance up and down the hall all of the courthouse. Well, 79 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: they dance because if you can't determine the cause of death, 80 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: if you can't even determine who it is it was 81 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: killed without DNA, they're dancing because the more time, the 82 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: less evidence, the more likely a defendant's going to be acquitted. 83 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: And in this instance, what do we have. We have 84 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: a recently killed person wrapped up, decomposing, and how do 85 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: we put a purp there? How do we part a 86 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: person of interest there? How do we find the defendant 87 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: to prosecute we have? The police have to do a 88 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: lot of work, a lot of the investigative techniques that 89 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: they don't like to do. So from a defense strategy, 90 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: this is, you know, a jackpot. They can't identify her 91 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: body at days and days and days passed before the 92 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: body's found. To Dave Matt joining Me, syndicated talk show host, 93 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:05,799 Speaker 1: So she Arkansas state senator apparently goes missing. She served 94 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: in the legislature. She was found dead outside her home 95 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: there in Pocahontas. That's about one hundred and thirty miles 96 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: northeast of Little Rock, Arkansas. Now, authorities have released very 97 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: few details about her murder, but we know it's a 98 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: murder because why else would she be wrapped up in 99 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: a carpet. They're releasing very few details about how she 100 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: was killed, but apparently it was a gunshot wound, and 101 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: Dave Mack, I'm de do seeing that, says they can't 102 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: make a facial recognition id she was shot in the face. 103 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: You kind of have to assume that we don't even 104 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: know exactly what day she was killed. We only know 105 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: that her last post was on May twenty eight, and 106 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: then nothing else was heard from her, and when police 107 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: went to check, that's when they discovered her. And that 108 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: was at least a day or two after neighbors reported 109 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: hearing gunshots. To add to the mystery, a judge agrees 110 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: to seal all the records, all the documents, so we 111 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: can't find out exactly what police know, but I do 112 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: know this. Take a listen to sound victim Arkansas State 113 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: Senator Linda Collins. This is from Ashley kurtzy Ka r KTV. 114 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: I am here with Senator Linda Collins Smith and you 115 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: know what it's like to be on the receiving and 116 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: this is your community. How are folks holding up right now? 117 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: You know, I know that a lot of folks are tired, 118 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: And of course for the folks that are coming back 119 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: into their homes and having to clean up, they are tired, 120 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: but I know that they have to do this, and 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: so they're out here. They're getting some help maybe you know, 122 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: hopefully there's volunteers coming to help clean up after the 123 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: disaster getting over here, and their hearts, they're broken, they're tired. 124 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: They did this in twenty eleven to have to be 125 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: doing it again. And so I have had a home 126 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: burned to the ground and whether you have nothing, and 127 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: you know we were home but didn't even have his 128 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: shoes on that day. So I know that for these people, 129 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: I just want to thank all of you for turning 130 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: out and the host state, the community turning out to 131 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: help these people by donating, you know, being generous and 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: giving to them. You are hearing in the Arkansas State 133 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Senator Linda Collins so worried about her constituents, so worried 134 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: about the people around her, But who's here to worry 135 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: about her? Now? She has found we believe shot dead 136 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: by a gunshot wound to the face, her body decomposing 137 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: wrapped up in carpet outside her home. Crime Stories with 138 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, with the Arkansas State Police Criminal Investigation Division 139 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: and the Randolph County Sheriffs Department, in coordination with the 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: Third Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney's Office, have arrested one person 141 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: in connection with the homicide, a former Arsas State Senator 142 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,239 Speaker 1: Lynda Collins Smith. Forty eight year old Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell, 143 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: is in custody in connection to that investigation. Sheriff Kevin 144 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: Bell told us she was arrested around four o'clock today, 145 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: That was just about an hour before the press conference tonight. 146 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: Criminal charges are pending and we are still waiting to 147 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: confirm details about why exactly she's being considered a suspect, 148 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: but Sheriff Bell says they cannot disclose any more information 149 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: right now. The investigation is presently at a critical juncture 150 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: and no further information will be released at this time 151 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: until we are confident that it will not compromise the 152 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: integrity of the criminal investigation. We're also learning more about 153 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: the arrest, like Shelby said, O'Donnell was arrested just before 154 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: four this afternoon during a traffic stop on Highway sixty two. 155 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: Bell was the one who arrested O'Donnell. You are hearing 156 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: some of the latest the mysterious circumstances around the death 157 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: of former Arkansas State Enator Linda Collins, and now we 158 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: are learning that a female staffer is suspected in the murder. 159 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: They say, the female staffer was pulled over because of 160 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: a traffic stop. Okay, you know what. They did, the 161 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: same thing with Timothy McVey, the Okay City bomber. I mean, 162 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: it happened so often that a simple traffic stop yields 163 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: incredible results. Same thing in Israel, Keys the serial killer, 164 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: they kill, the Alaska barista, the young teen girl, Samantha 165 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: ko Nick. He was pulled over I think in Texas 166 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: for a tail light or some other traffic incident, and 167 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: the whole thing blew wide open. In this case, this 168 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: female staffer pulled over with a traffic violation and then 169 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: charged with murder. Take a listen to our friend Marty 170 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: Gonzalez at ABC News this morning new insight into the 171 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: connection between a former Arkansas state senator killed in her 172 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: home and her former campaign staffer arrested in connection. It 173 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: comes as a shock. Linda Colin Smith was found shot 174 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: to death on June fourth. Days later, Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell 175 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: updated her Facebook profile picture to this smiling image of 176 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 1: them together. Then Friday, without explanation, police took O'Donnell into custody. 177 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: The investigation is presently at a critical juncture and no 178 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: further informational way released at this time. ABC news station 179 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: KAI reporting that O'Donnell recently appeared as a corroborating witness 180 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: in Colin Smith's divorce case. And we're told the two 181 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: were good friends. They were all fighters for the Second Amendment, 182 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: and so they would you know, you'd see them at events, 183 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: travel together. This weekend, family, friends and colleagues gathered for 184 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: Colin Smith's funeral, remembering her as a loving mother and 185 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: tough legislator. And police still aren't saying anything about a 186 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: possible motive or when charges maybe file. I don't get it. 187 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: A former female staffer of this arc saw state senator 188 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: is now suspected in her murder. Her gunshot wound to 189 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: the face. To syndicated talk show host Dave mac what 190 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: is the evidence they have against the staffer a friend. 191 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: They're not saying Nancy. They're playing this so close to 192 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: the vest. All we know is that apparently Becky o'donald 193 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: was very very close to Linda Collins. The part that 194 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: made me sick was six days after her body was discovered, 195 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: this Becky o'donald posts a picture of the two of 196 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: them to her Facebook page, and the tim hugging and smiling. 197 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: So all I can think of is that that case 198 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: years ago of Selena the singer and her friend who 199 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: managed her clothing store and was her fan club president 200 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: shooting her. That's all I can think of. I can't 201 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: even get past anything else in The police aren't helping 202 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: by giving us any information. Well, we know that Linda Collins, 203 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: who formerly went by Colins Smith, and O'Donnell, the woman 204 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: now suspected in her murder, her former friends slash staffer 205 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: were friends, and o'donald had helped Collins with her most 206 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: recent campaign and had even been high up in the 207 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: campaign and the highest echelons of the campaign. You know, 208 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, when you have a friend on friend murder, 209 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: what could be a possible motive? M A l E 210 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: My view, is when things come out, we're going to 211 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: find out there was a man involved, and that she 212 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: was mad. She shot her in the face because she 213 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: couldn't stand to see her anymore, and she was going 214 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: to get mad and get even I think we'll find 215 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: that that's what's going to be part of it. Yep, 216 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: a man, you know, Daryl Cohen. I find that so 217 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: interesting that you, a man, think that men are so 218 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: so irresistible that a friend would shoot another friend in 219 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: the face to get a I believe you said, m 220 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: A l E. Really is that your experience with women 221 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: that they pull guns and knives and beat each other 222 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: to be with you? No? I wish somebody would, but 223 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: the answer is no. I feel in this instance it 224 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: smells to me very much like a soap opera. That 225 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: they were friends. They had an argument. If they have 226 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: an argument over losing a campaign not going to happen, 227 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: they have an argument over address not going to happen. 228 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: If they have an argument over mail, and they are 229 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: both interested very much in this mail, I think very 230 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: easily it could happen. What about it, joining me Ashley Kelly, 231 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: licensed clinical social worker. Any number of things, maybe one 232 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: uncovered financial wrongdoing, in the campaign, maybe one of the other, 233 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: maybe one found something incriminating of the other, you know, 234 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: maybe it was a heat of passion, an argument, maybe 235 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: like in Selena, possibly the staffer had a crush on 236 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: Linda Collins that was not returned. It could be a 237 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: number of number of factors. Sure, and without knowing this 238 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: good friend's mental health background, she could have it undiagnosed 239 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: personality disorder that showed its ugly face in a heat 240 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: of passionate could have been a lot of different things. 241 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: It's hard to say without that information. So right now 242 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: we don't know the motive. But what do we know 243 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: at all about any evidence police have to arrest the 244 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: friend slash campaign worker. What do we know if anything, 245 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: at this early juncture, Dave Matt Nancy. All we know 246 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: is that police were called for a welfare check and 247 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: been tracking it back two days before her body was discovered. 248 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: Neighbors said they heard gunshots. We have an ongoing relationship 249 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: between Rebecca then O'Donnell known as Becky and miss Collins, 250 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: so we know they had a very close bond and 251 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: that they've been together for many, many years as friends. 252 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: Police are not releasing any any evidence whatsoever. On what 253 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: directly ties Becky to the murder Miss Collins joining me 254 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Beer Bones Consulting, Karen 255 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: way In at this point. You know, if it was 256 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound, hopefully they have a projectile or possibly 257 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: a casing. If a semi automatic was used, they can 258 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: trace that back to a gun if they find one. 259 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: If if Rebecca had a gun registered to her and 260 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: they can trace that back, that might be one way. Also, 261 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that the senator had surveillance at 262 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: her house. Most people do now, so they may have 263 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: Rebecca on surveillance at the house around the time of 264 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: the murder. So these maybe things that police are keeping 265 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: close to the vest for obvious reasons. But it's certainly 266 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: there's another odd fact. And Dave Mack alleged this earlier. 267 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: Rebecca Lynn O'Donnell recently switched her Facebook profile picture to 268 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: one showing her with the dead senator. And she did this. 269 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: It's a real smiley picture of the two together after 270 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: Linda Collins is killed. That's creepy in itself, but let's 271 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: go on. Well, you know, Daryl Cohen, I'm gonna have 272 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: to eat a dirt sandwich, because apparently it's now coming 273 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: out that the Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins, divorced from 274 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: a judge, had a close relationship with the staff or 275 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: O'Donnell's boyfriend. So, you know what, as much as I 276 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: pooh pooed you, you may be right. Daryl Cohen, Okay, 277 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: you stole that from me. But I don't know of 278 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: any outbursts or any anger directed one against the other. 279 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: Do we know anything about that, Dave Max, No, Nancy. 280 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: But you know, the one thing you have to think 281 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: about is you've got a woman O'Donnell, who is working 282 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: for a very high profile and very wealthy former state senator. 283 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: On their last campaign, they thought they were gonna win. 284 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: She didn't. But you know, you've got a lot of 285 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: really tight relationships, and O'Donnell was one of the three 286 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: people who actually testified over a financial deal between Linda 287 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: Collins Smith and her former husband, the judge Smith, and 288 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: so she was intimately involved in all aspects of the 289 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: campaign and of their personal life. We wait as justice unfolds, 290 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: but what we know now a former female stafford slash 291 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: friend suspect and the murderer of gorgeous Arkansas State senator 292 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: former Senator Linda Collins. Nancy, we just got an update. 293 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: Arkansas judge has found probable cause to charge Rebecca len 294 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: O'Donnell with capital murder, abuse of a corpse, and tampering 295 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: with physical evidence in the murder of former state Senator 296 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: Susan Collins Smith. She was arrested last Friday night, you know, 297 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: the Arkansas State Police and Randolph County Sheriff's Department and 298 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: announced the arrest and connection with the murder charge. The 299 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: judge has now sealed all the records in the case 300 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: until it's over with, and he's slapped a gag order 301 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: on everyone involved, so we're not going to get a 302 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: whole lot more information, but he has found enough to 303 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: charge her. Clive stories with Nancy Grace. It has been 304 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: seven months since Kaden McWilliams was last seen alive. He 305 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: was in school then at Denver's Ellis Elementary, described as 306 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: a kind and sweet seven year old, but now police 307 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: confirmed the last week of school Caden disappeared. Today. Denver 308 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: Public Schools would not comment on whether anyone had reported 309 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: Kayden missing then, saying the district does not want to 310 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: hinder the police investigation. But police started searching for the 311 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: boy just two weeks ago, and then arrested his mother, 312 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: Alicia Pankey, December twenty second, on a heroin charge, shortly 313 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: after police receiving tips leading them to this storage unit 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: where they found Kayden's body. Police also arrested this man, 315 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: Leland Panky, Alicia's husband, on a year old domestic violence charge. 316 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: Records obtained by Denver seven, he was accused of strangling 317 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: a woman until she lost consciousness in twenty seventeen. He's 318 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: not yet charged in Cayden's death, and it's not clear 319 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: if he is Cayden's father. What we know is the 320 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: coroner is still investigating how this little boy died, and 321 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: it could have happened months ago. I Nancy Grays, this 322 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You 323 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: were hearing our friend Jacqueline Allen at ABC seven in Denver. 324 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: How did seven months pass until this little boy? Cat 325 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: William's body was found encased in cement? How did it happen? 326 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: Cat William's body was found encased in concrete. Newly released 327 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: court documents show his mother, Alicia Pankey, went to police 328 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: about six days before he was found to report her 329 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: husband choking her. Police then checked on her children and 330 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: found her daughter at a daycare center. They say the 331 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: girl told them that Cayden was lost. Police searched the 332 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: storage unit off East Evans Avenue on December twenty three 333 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: and found a large piece of concrete King's remains hidden 334 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: an animal carrier. I just don't understand how seven months 335 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: go by. Joining me an All Star panel, Dave Matt Doctor, 336 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Michelle Duprie, Ashley Kelly, Daryl Cohen, and Karen Smith Dave 337 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: mac Let's just start at the beginning. How does a 338 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: seven year old boy go missing for seven months and 339 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: nobody knows well. The mother of Kadin actually went to 340 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: the school to check him out on May twenty fourth, 341 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: and then she arrived back at the school in August 342 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: to say that she was going to homeschool him. Okay, 343 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: so there was a plan of action here. He was 344 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: removed from school early from one year and before the 345 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: next year got underway, she said, no, I'm checking him out. 346 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to homeschool this little boy. That's why they 347 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: didn't know he was missing. Yeah, that's the same thing 348 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: that happened with the Turpins out in California. The house 349 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: of horrors where all the children were starved, beaten, chained 350 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: to their beds. They were quote home schooled as well. 351 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: But I gotta tell you, I met a lot of 352 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: kids this past week at Scout camp that were a 353 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: lot of them were homeschooled, not the majority, but some 354 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: of them, and they seemed perfectly adjusted. They excelled. So 355 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that homeschooling is bad. But what I 356 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: am saying is that homeschooling gives a lot of bad 357 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: parents a chance to get away with abuse and no 358 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: teachers know about it. What about it? Joining me? Atlanta 359 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Daryl Cohen, Darryl what about it? Nancy? 360 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes there's nothing to explain. Sometimes you just have to 361 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: take the facts as they are. Seven months it just 362 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: doesn't work. I just don't understand what was going on. 363 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: I'm not sure any of us understand what was going on. 364 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: I don't understand another thing. Dave mac How do they 365 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: finally find his body in case of cement and where? Okay, 366 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: it went back to the original charges. You know when 367 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 1: you heard the report that Panky Leland Panky have been 368 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: accused of choking his wife Elisha Alicia, and there was 369 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: a charge. He never appeared in court, so when she 370 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: went and filed a complaint the week before Christmas, the 371 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: police went to find him. That's when they found the 372 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: living conditions of the family. Okay, they were living in 373 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: short to run hotels. When they searched the rooms the hotels, 374 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: they searched the leveland Panky's room, and they found things incriminating. 375 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: There was a problem. They could find the daughter. They 376 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: asked him, where's your son. He said, let's change the subject, 377 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: talked about something else. When they talked a little girl, 378 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: she says, well, he's missing. He's gone. They then tracked 379 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: back over to the mother's hotel. They were not living 380 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: in the same hotel. When they got to hers, she 381 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: was telling a story of moving things in a BMW 382 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,719 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of cash and drugs involved 383 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: in this. But the bottom line is they were able 384 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: to trace back just detective work going through these hotel rooms, 385 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: they were able to find different indicators that there was 386 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: something in a storage building. They found a car to 387 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: business part of a storage facility, and that's when they 388 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: looked into this thing and saw something that was out 389 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: of the ordinary, shouldn't have been there. Looked like a 390 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: big wrapping of trash bags, thick trash bags. But there 391 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: was a stench as soon as they started opening one 392 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: of the bags. Daver dogs indicated there was a decomposed 393 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: corpse in there. It took authorities seven months to find him. 394 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: In kasten sement. I'm talking about a seven year old 395 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: little boy, Caveman Williams. Because first he was being homeschooled, okay, 396 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: so schools were not keeping up with a deli tenants. 397 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: Nobody knew he was missing. Then they go to the 398 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: home because which is a motel on a domestic violence warrant. 399 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: It's what I'm understanding, and that's when they start sorting 400 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: out that the boy is missing. Is that correct? That's 401 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. That's why there was seven months in between. 402 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: Nobody was looking after this kid. And again they did 403 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: have a younger daughter involved too, and she was in daycare. 404 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: So you've got one child from this family that seems 405 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: to be okay, but you've got this little boy and 406 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: nobody's seen him from May twenty fourth until we have 407 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: this horrific discovery inside that. So the daughter is in 408 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: daycare and she's okay, and she says her brother Caden 409 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: is missing. You know. To Ashley Kelly, licensed clinical social worker, 410 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: I've noticed a lot of abuse cases that one child 411 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: is singled out for the abuse in the family. It 412 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: looks like the daughter is okay. Why is that why 413 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: the parents singled out one child. Yeah, that's a good question, Nancy. 414 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: It does happen quite a bit where one child is 415 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: singled out and the other seems to be fine until 416 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: that child is either removed or unfortunately killed in this case, 417 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: so it's not unusual. It's not unusual unfortunately for abus. 418 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: You know, what we know about the way that he 419 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: was found is also shocking and I may need a 420 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: shrink Ashley Kelly to explain how somebody could do this. 421 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: But this child's body was found encased in cement inside 422 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: a dog crate in a Denver storage unit. The boy 423 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: apparently died in the crate after the dad forced him 424 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: to sleep there, and we are learning this from the mother. 425 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Jackie Crate ABC seven, Denver. 426 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: This case started unfolding just days before Christmas, but sadly, 427 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: police believe the seven year old Kaden McWilliams may have 428 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: been dead since May. It wasn't until the week of 429 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: December twenty first, police received information about a missing child. 430 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: That week, an officer discovered heroine inside a hotel room 431 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: belonging to the child's mother, Alicia Pankey. On December twenty second, 432 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: She's arrested at a hotel for felony drug possession. The 433 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: next day, on December twenty third, Kayden Is found dead 434 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: inside a Denver storage unit. It's unclear how long he 435 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: had been there. His mother, Alicia Pankey, was in court 436 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: this afternoon after turning herself into police yesterday. And Kayden 437 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: was a student at Ellis Elementary School in southeast Denver. 438 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: It's unclear up until what point he was enrolled there, 439 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: and new tonight we heard from the school's principal who says, quote, 440 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: Kayden was the sweetest boy. He stood out from others 441 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: from the moment he walked through the school doors every 442 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: morning with a huge smile on his face and quote. 443 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: The school also called Kayden a model student, saying he 444 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: wasn't afraid to do the right thing because it was right. 445 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: And tonight, Alicia Pankey is being held for investigation of 446 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: child abuse resulting in death. Crime stories with Nancy Great. 447 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: The seven year old boy found dead in the storage. 448 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: Une had meth and cocaine in his system. According to 449 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner. Caten Williams was found in December. On Friday, 450 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: the Denver Office of the Medical Examiner released the autopsy results. 451 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: The report reads, in part, it is possible the Decedon 452 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: experienced complications of injuries, for example infection or sepsis. However, 453 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: he may have also suffered a component of asphyxia, dehydration, 454 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: and or hypothermia, which cannot be confirmed. His mother, Alicia Pankey, 455 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: was formally charged with child abuse resulting in death and 456 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: abuse of a corpse. This little boy only twenty seven 457 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: pounds at age seven when his body was found in 458 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: cased in cement. To doctor Michelle Dupre, author of Homicide 459 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide South Carolina Medical exam Or doctor g Pre, 460 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: we still don't have a cause of death. How can 461 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: you get a cause of death? And what's the hold up, Nancy. 462 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes we cannot get a cause of death. In that case, 463 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: we actually follow that death certificate as under harmon, which 464 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: leaves that case open in case new information or new 465 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: evidence of found. In this case, it may be very 466 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: difficult because the child's body was conclosed in cementth it 467 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: may be very difficult to tell, you know, I'm not 468 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: quite sure how this slipped through the cracks to Dave 469 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: Matt When the first incident of domestic abuse occurred. Why 470 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: were the children allowed to stay in the home with 471 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: the dad Leland Panky? You know, Nancy, they moved around 472 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot in a voided contact. That's why there was 473 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: that open warrant for Leland Panky that they hadn't meantle 474 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: to serve. They had left their home and were living 475 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: in a short term hotels and that's why the kids 476 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: were under the radar, you know, that's why they weren't found. 477 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: So they were going hotel to hotel to stay under 478 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: the radar, to keep him out of jail apparently, and 479 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: and to deal drugs because you've got forty thousand dollars 480 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: in cash that they were found with on top of drugs. 481 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: Both parents, Leland as well as Elisha, we're both found 482 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: with drugs on them and that's what actually landed them 483 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: both in jail. Pankey, Leland Panky actually ended up in 484 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: jail because of the old warrant on domestic of violence 485 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: and drug charge. You know what about that? Did doctor 486 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: Michelle dupre. What about the fact that he had meth 487 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: in a system when they analyzed. How do you find 488 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: that out, Nancy. We would do toxicology examination, and we 489 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: can do that from tissue. We can do that from 490 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: surrounding the surrounding environment. We can test body parts to 491 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: de charming if there is toxicology issues, and in this 492 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: case there was. We've learned another fact to Daryl Cohen. 493 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: Apparently a woman spoke with the mother, Alicia Pankey, and 494 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: she says the mom told her that Caden died in 495 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: that door crate after he was forced to sleep there 496 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: by the dad. Leland that the crate was covered with blankets, 497 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: and Alicia believes Caden suffocated overnight. Now, in my mind, 498 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: that's still felony murder, which carries the same sentence as 499 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: premeditated murder. Felony murder is simply when you're committing a felony. 500 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: Think of it like this, a bank robbery. Jackie Howard 501 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: and I go into rob a bank and we bring 502 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: intern Riley along with us, and Riley's just sitting out 503 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: in the car and minding her own business as a 504 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: getaway girl. And then Jackie gets a wild hair and 505 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: starts shooting kills three bank tellers, Riley sitting out in 506 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: the car, a little intern Riley. Uh huh. She's in 507 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: it for three counts, a murder one, that's right. She's 508 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: committing a felony bank robbery and a death occurs even 509 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: though she didn't intend it. In this case, Daryl Cohen, 510 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: I would argue to a jury, this was child abuse, 511 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: extreme child abuse, putting a child in a dog crate 512 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: and covering it with blankets, and if he's suffocated, it 513 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: was a result from child abuse. That's felony murdered. Darryl, Hey, 514 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: you going to get around that? I do not know 515 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: how to get around that, and I wish I had. Well, 516 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: that's what you're paid for. That's what you get paid 517 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands of dollars you and your dopers 518 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: and your killers, all your clients. My Nancy. My argument 519 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: would be that she didn't mean to kill him, but 520 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: it's the felody murder rule. My argument would be that 521 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: he was unruly, he was difficult to deal with, and 522 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: we've tried everything, and so we put him in a 523 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: grate and we put the blankets over him. That would 524 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: be my argument. We did not mean to kill him. 525 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: We are just devastated. My clients are devastated that he 526 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: is dead. But frankly, it would not fly and it 527 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: shouldn't fly. So bottom line, Daryll Cohen, if she's charged 528 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: with child abuse resulting in death, what would her penalty 529 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: be in Georgia? Life? Probably life with parole, but life 530 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: unless you know what I think the mom should be 531 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: charged with keeping the dad in the home. Listen to this. 532 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: So I was able to confirm that Elijah Pinky is 533 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: married to Leland Pinky with a marriage license. We already 534 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: knew that Elisha Pinky has a criminal record deating back 535 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: to two thousand that includes driving under the influence in 536 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: heroin position. Today I got hold of more court documents 537 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: that accused Leland of abusing her several times. Today, Leland 538 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: Pankley appeared in court facing second degree assault charges from 539 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: an incident back in November of twenty seventeen. He's accused 540 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: of holding his wife down on the couch and strangling her. 541 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: His wife told officers that she lost consciousness twice from 542 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: his triangulations. Police believed that the boy has been dead 543 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 1: since me We are also learning the same woman who 544 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: reported how Alicia said Kayden died allegedly said that the 545 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: dad holding him, lifting him by the neck off the floor. 546 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: He went to a bathroom with the little boy, where 547 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: Alicia heard a scuffle ensued. Then Leland comes out of 548 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: the bathroom alone, saying they can't save both children. That's 549 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: contradictory to putting him in a cage blankets over him. 550 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: She says that the mom said the parents removed the 551 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: boy's body from the hotel in the dog carrier, took 552 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: him to the storage unit, covered him in cement, and 553 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: in case the kennel in trash bags. To me, mom 554 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 1: needs to be charged with murdering one right along with 555 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: the dad. What about that? Daryl Cohen one thousand percent agree. 556 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: If those facts are as mentioned, the mother is equally culpable. 557 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: She did exactly what it takes to murder her own child. Well, 558 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: I can tell you on this charge, even if it's 559 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: not upgraded, she is looking at a max of life 560 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: behind bars. If she is convicted on even these charges, 561 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: she will get life behind bars. Bottom line, Caden's body 562 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: showed signs of abuse, starving prior to his death. Is 563 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: this just another case of a child slipping through the 564 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: system's cracks, Dave matt Is that what happened? Apparently so, Nancy. 565 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: But I will tell you that twenty seven pounds at 566 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: the time of his death. Somebody in that school system 567 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: had to know how because he couldn't have weighed much 568 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: more than that when he was in school for the 569 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: last time. Because they're saying that he died within four 570 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: to six weeks from the last time he was seen 571 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: in school. So you're gonna tell me that it's normal 572 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: for a seven year old to weigh twenty seven pounds. 573 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: I got four kids. They all weighed more than that 574 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: by the time they were two. So how long had 575 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: he been being home school before he died? That's a 576 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: good point, Dave Matt. Well, they checked him out in 577 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: May twenty fourth, Okay, that was when she a week 578 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: before school ended. His mom checks him out of school. 579 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: Then she goes back to school in August after he's 580 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: presumed now we believe he's already dead. But she goes 581 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: back in August and says, oh, he's not coming back 582 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: to school this year. I'm going to homeschool. So how 583 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 1: long before he was dead? Nancy? They're actually they're actually 584 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: saying that they last saw him May twenty fourth, and 585 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: then the school never saw him again. Police are saying 586 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: that he was killed, that he had to him killed 587 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: some time between then and July. So we're talking five 588 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: or six weeks between the time that school last saw him, 589 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: So he was already emaciated by that time. I found 590 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: it hard to believe. There were no bruises, no indicators 591 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: at all that he was being mistreated. Why did it 592 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: take so long for them to charge the mom and 593 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: the dad once they found his body. Well, you know what, 594 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: we mentioned that he was encased in cement, and from 595 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: the time that they found the body until and they're 596 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 1: having to break down everything that went on. It wasn't 597 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: just a simple process of looking at a child. You're 598 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: talking about a child that had been dead for some time, 599 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: encased in cement. You know, we just found out not 600 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: that long ago about the drugs that were found in 601 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: his liver in his body. So they still haven't determined 602 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: the actual cause of death, but they found that he 603 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: had he had wounds that hadn't healed all the way. 604 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: He had broken bones, some that were healed, some that weren't. 605 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: We know that the condition of this child's body was 606 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: horrific at the time of his death. That's all we know. 607 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: That's why it takes so long for all this to 608 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: go on. We wait as just as so a full 609 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: for the mother Alicia Pankey and husband Leland Pankey, May 610 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: they both wrought in hell. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing 611 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,