WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Robots of Theseus 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:14.680 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.840 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Today 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.919 we're going to dive into some listener mail and you 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.239 know we have we actually have two different carney the 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.720 mailbots here to help us today. The one on the 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.480 left here is just bright silver gleaming like a suit 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.479 of armor from the movie ex Caliber. And then, uh, 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:41.160 the one on the right and resembles a like a 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.280 rusty death bucket, like a suit of armor from Monty 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.040 Python and the Holy Grail. Yeah, that's pretty much what 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.280 he looks like. Uh, how how did did did we 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:52.680 get two carneys in these two different states. Well, it's 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.160 because we did that massive upgrade on Carney. You know, 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.880 we we started replacing some of his parts, um, upgrading 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.639 apart here apart air, and then we just kept doing it. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.280 And then on the other end, we when when we 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.160 were done the used parts, we just started assembling those 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.920 as well, until we had two complete carnis the carney 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:14.039 in which we had replaced every last piece with a new, 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:16.720 shiny piece, and then the carney that we built out 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.800 of the old pieces. Now the question is which Carney 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.759 is going to deliver us this week's listener mail. I'm 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.720 just gonna I'm just gonna close my eyes and put 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.880 my hand out and um and I guess hope that 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.039 I don't get pricked by the rusty one just because 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.600 I'm not sure my tetnas shots up to date. Uh. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.880 Fun fact, Russ does not cause tetanus, does it not? Well, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.440 there you go. So it's okay that he has razor 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.120 sharp rusty claws. It's a okay all right now. Unfortunately, 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.160 no matter what, we never have time to read all 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.280 of the great listener mail we get. So if you 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.680 have sent us a message and we haven't been able 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:53.880 to respond and you don't hear it on the show today, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.680 please please don't be discouraged. It's not because we don't 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.080 appreciate the mail we get. There's there's just a lot 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.400 of great stuff out there and and no time to 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.120 attend to it all. But we really do appreciate all 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.120 the wonderful community case we get from you lovely people 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.760 out there. Yeah, because even though we have twice the 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.320 Carney now, we only still have the two of us, 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.359 So there's only so much we can do, and there's 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.200 only so much time. That's right. Let's jump right in, Robert, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.640 all right, let's do it. I'm gonna put out my hand. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.760 It looks like Shiny Carney is bringing me something to 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.919 read here. All right. This one comes to us from Alex. 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.560 Alex says, Hi, Robert and Joe, your podcast is wonderful, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.760 and although it was already very good to begin with, 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.200 I feel you two are getting even better and better 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.200 because we keep replacing parts. That's what's happened. Keep up 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.600 the great work. We're big fans. I have a comment 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.920 about the ship of theseus episode. I'm a particle physicist 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.800 by training, so I was thinking about your discussion a 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.440 bit from that perspective. I don't claim to have any 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.800 definite answers, but I think the theory of quantum mechanics 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.960 adds more depth and weirdness to the problem of identity 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.840 on top of what you've already discussed. In quantum mechanics, 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.880 different particles of the same type are treated as truly indistinguishable. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.440 Two particles can be separated in space, but in the 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.600 theory they are described by one wave function, which simply 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.359 features a high probability to find a particle in region A, 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.720 as well as a high probability to find a particle 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.240 in region B with no mention that it's particle Alice 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.079 here and that it's particle Bob there. My tentative takeaway 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.840 is this, if a quantum teleportation machine were to transfer 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.280 the quantum state of the atoms in my body sitting 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.360 in place A onto a stream of photons, and then 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.520 transfer that onto atoms in a place B a mile away, 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.760 I don't see a real justification to treat the newly 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.400 created atoms a mile away is anything thing other than 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.920 truly the parts of my own body which have been 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.760 moved there. I still feel a bit queasy to hand 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:56.360 over my fate to this machine, but rationally I'd love 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.400 to hear a discussion of these quantum physics aspects of 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.320 the ship of the Theseius sometime. Cheers Alex. Now, that 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.600 is an interesting question because there's this obvious preference people 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.840 have that like, oh, if I'm going to be teleported 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.840 and it will still be me, I want the particles 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.040 that originally made my body to be the same particles 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.480 that make up the copy of me. Now, that's if 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.880 you're teleporting information about your body from one place to another. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.479 That's just probably not going to be the case, right, 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.200 You're gonna have to build from different particles. And Alex 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.000 is saying, why would that really make a difference. I 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.080 don't know if that really would make a difference. I 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.960 would think that the problem would be the interruption of 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.159 the continuous existence of you from during that moment of transition, 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.400 basically what I said before, where you just need somebody 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.400 to lie to you about that interruption. You know, you 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.000 need somebody to just to to gloss over the more 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.200 problematic details of your teleportation system. So I think you 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.320 said this before, you'd rather live in a world where 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.800 people are teleporting they are just actually dying every time 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.680 they do it. But nobody is it well. But but 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.200 I guess the positive spin is you're not only dying, 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.680 you're being reborn. I mean, this is kind of what, uh, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.680 what what Seth Brundel was talking about in Cronenberg's The Fly, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.839 The idea that it's it's like there's a purifying aspect 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.800 to the teleportation. I believe this was some of what 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.800 he was talking about before things began going terribly wrong 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.880 for him, mixing his DNA with that of a fly, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.080 but as being reborn worthwhile if you don't know you're 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.000 being reborn, Say, for example, people say, you know, I'd 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.080 love to be able to go back and start over 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.479 my life again, to do it right this time. But 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.440 if you were to go back and start over without 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.720 the memory of your previous life, how would anything, Why 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.000 would that be any better? Why would that change anything? 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.800 It seems like the value of being reborn is the 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.120 knowledge of what came before and the knowledge that you 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.720 have been reborn, or to just the idea that you've 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.880 been reborn. I mean, somebody could just fool you into 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.040 thinking teleportation is possible. You walk into a box, there's 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.640 some lights, you walk out of the box. But if 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.280 you feel will renewed right then it could have an 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.000 overall positive effect. Speaking of Cronenberg, I don't know if 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.200 you've read about this as well, but supposedly, uh, David 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.080 Cronenberg has has a screenplay that he wrote that is 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:17.240 a sequel to The Fly that doesn't necessarily contain any monsters. 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.760 It's more about something. I don't know that there are 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.160 any more additional details out there, but it is more 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.160 concerned with teleportation itself than it is with any kind 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.160 of monstrous side effects of the technology. Oh, I think 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.320 you could write a great psychological horror movie it's purely 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.000 about teleportation without any like DNA fusion or you know, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.800 becoming half fly or anything like that. Yeah, it's it's 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.960 one of my hopes that either Cronenberg will get to 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.720 direct that script, where somebody will one day direct that script. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.360 I'm very interested, um what he's exploring in that because 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.680 because we're also talking about later day Cronenberg. Cronenberg who 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.840 hasn't really been dipping his toes into the the squeamish 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.520 horror content of his his earlier filmography. So the more 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.880 recent Cronenberg version, it's just got a bunch of like 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.080 mafia guys who get into a teleporter together and they 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.160 come out having an existential crisis. I'd probably be down 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.200 for that, you know. And I do love so many that, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.440 like the transcendent ideas that were at least briefly discussed 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.360 in The Fly, like the idea towards the end that 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.560 not only is he gonna cure himself by climbing into 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.360 the telepod uh with Gina Davis's character, you know, but 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.880 they will become one perfect being you know that there's 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.720 this this fusion that will take place, that will create 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.640 a higher human. Yeah, and that embodies some of the 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.200 questions I guess about the whole teleportation idea. Like to him, 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.560 that's an idea of like addition or becoming better into her. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.600 That's obviously an idea of obliteration or destruction. Yeah, Okay. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.360 Also about the ship of Theseus, this comes to us 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.200 from our listener, and and writes, Hi, Robert and Joe, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.840 I'm a longtime listener of your show, and I'm writing 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.040 in to respond to your great episode on the ship 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.040 of Theseus. I've never heard of the mythic iteration of 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.760 this concept, but I'm familiar with it from the Romantic 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.840 poets of England. I wouldn't be surprised if they built 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.080 off of it from some of the philosophers you mentioned, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.960 including Hobbes. In a September eight, nineteen letter to his 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.600 brother and sister in law, John Keats, that's the romantic 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.000 poet John Keats takes a personal and religious approach to 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.000 the question. I've included the excerpt here. Quote from the 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.200 time you left me. Our friends say I have altered completely, 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.240 am not the same person. Perhaps in this letter. I 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.640 am for in a letter, one takes up one's existence 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.840 from the time we last met. I dare say you 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.800 have altered. Also every man does. Our bodies every seven 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.960 years are completely fresh material seven years ago. It was 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.959 not this hand that clinched itself against Hammond. We are 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.200 like the relict garments of a saint. The same and 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.679 not the same for the careful monks patchet and patchet 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.679 for St. Anthony's shirt. Oh that's nice. Yeah, I like that. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.240 That brings in. And I so if you believe, for example, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.960 that an item can be holy, that's another question about identity. 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.640 Imagine you say you believe uh in like a piece 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.439 of the True Cross or something, one of these medieval relics, 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:18.000 and it's gradually losing splinters, but having splinters replaced by 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.680 people who are working on it. Once the entire thing 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.839 has been replaced, it does still have holy power. But 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:26.040 this is why you notice it. In some of the 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.160 museums that you go to, There'll be a tiny vial 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:34.440 of vampire blood uh inside the temperature control compartment with it, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.640 so they can see just how holy the artifact still is. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.080 That would be a good test, and continues I love 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.280 that the section gets into different layers of identity, both 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:48.720 the one self reported and or time traveled to e g. Quote, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.760 taking up one's existence from the time we last met unquote, 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.880 and also the one created by others, as in the 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:00.640 monks reconstructing the relic ironically in trying to preserve the original. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.040 This also touches on the biological transformation that you mentioned 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.040 in the podcast, the seven to ten year recreation of 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.480 the cells in the body. As for identity being defined 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.400 by the static reality of an object or its constant 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.160 evolution in a process, Shelly weighs in with a poem 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.160 called mutability, which concludes on the following stanzas. So this 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:26.000 is Percy Biss Shelly we rest a dream has power 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.360 to poison sleep. We rise one wandering thought pollutes the 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:35.319 day we feel, conceive or reason, laugh or weep, embrace 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.440 fond woe, or cast our cares away. It is the same, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.200 for be it joy or sorrow, the path of its 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.480 departure still is free man's yesterday. May ne'er be like 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:52.440 his morrow, not may endure. But mutability. To me that 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.760 embodies very much the the idea of the Heraclitis type 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.600 idea of pant ray. Everything flows, it's all flox, it's 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.600 all change, but a continues. While he's maybe talking more 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.360 about emotional states here than comprehensive identity, the final thought 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.240 of the poem sides with the argument that existence is 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.760 defined by transformation, which brings up the question of whether 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.960 or not change itself can be defined as a constant. Anyway, 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.160 it's just some tie ins from yet another realm. I 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.599 love your show and the curious exuberance with which it 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:26.320 addresses these potentially terrifying existential questions. Thanks a lot, Thanks 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.240 for a lot of great listening sincerely, Anne, Thank you 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.120 so much. And I always love when people come at 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.720 us with poetry. Yes, and I particularly like the specimens 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.800 that she presented us with. With there, I want to 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.679 skip to another bit of listener mail here that came 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.480 to us about the Ship of Theseus. And this came 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.000 to us from Diana, Diana Rides, Hi, Robert and Joe. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.480 I've been listening for a while, sometimes by myself, sometimes 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.360 with the kids. Recently, my seven year old daughter and 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.800 I were listening to the Ship of Theseus episode and 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.360 I thought i'd ask her the question if you had 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.600 a toy and replaced all the parts that toy with 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.840 new different parts, would it be the same toy? Her 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.240 unequivocal answer was yes. When I ask why it we 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.480 would be the same and not different, her response was 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.559 because it's the same toy. The new parts don't make 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.360 it different. Yeah. So there you go. From the mouths 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.600 of babes love the show, Diana. I really like this, uh, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.280 this this email because it reminds me of the the 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.480 whole scenario of the replacing a lost toy, which is 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.880 something that uh and imagine a number of you have 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.440 experienced as a child or perhaps you've you've played a 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.800 part in the scenario as a parent. But obviously, when 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.920 you replace a toy, especially if it's a stuffed animal, 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.920 the replacement can often look just like a completely different 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.840 species compared to the like the worn out thing that 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.960 you had to replace, you know, uh, like it becomes 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.680 the essentially the rusty carney, Like the rusty carney is 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.400 the one you love, and then when you're presented with 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.400 this brand new, untarnished carney, you're like, that's not carney, 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.040 you know, that's not you know, uh, socks the bear socks. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.319 The bear has only one eye and his his fur isn't, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.480 you know, bright and fluffy, it's it's mad at and gray. Like, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.160 it's the wear and the tear that that that is 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.880 that is part and partial to the identity of the thing. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.920 But it sounds like Diana's child is saying, maybe that 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.280 it's not right that like, even if you do replace 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.199 all of the body parts of Socks the bear with newer, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.920 fresher body parts, it's the same bear. Yeah, So maybe 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.520 this is just h This is just me like looking 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.719 back on childhood experiences and you know, and and and 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.160 looking at my my own child's experiences through the eyes 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.600 of a parent. Yeah, maybe that ultimately doesn't matter to 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.760 the kid. They're like, yeah, Socks is great. Now, look 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.319 at him. He's he's doing great, He's he's wonderful. It 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.160 looks like he's brand new, exactly what I wanted, you know. 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.200 With the kind of unreality of childhood, the kind of 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.680 hallucinatory quality of the child's view of the world, I 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.120 can almost imagine that I could have been a little 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.840 kid and had some of my toys replaced with clearly 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.960 newer versions of themselves, And I wonder if I would 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.599 have noticed, or if I would have thought anything was unusual, 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:07.960 or if I just would have thought, hey, it's you know, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.280 it's even better now, Well, sometimes the function would be improved, right, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.480 like like I remember having two boba FETs. There was 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.600 the original Boba fet that I played with so much 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.440 that he couldn't stand up anymore like his his limited 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.280 joints were just they would just swivel around, so he 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.000 could only like lay down, that was it. Or you know, 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.000 he could fly through the air, I guess. But it 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.880 was only the newer boba Fete that could actually stand upright, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.960 which was more important. I think ultimately standing upright was 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.680 more important. The floppy boba fet was had limited usage. Okay, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.360 here's one from our listener and frequent contributor Jim writing 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.200 also about the Ship of Theseus Jim rights, Robert and Joe. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.680 One can visit a real life ship of Theseus in Boston. 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:57.440 The USS Constitution Old ironsides. She is the oldest commissioned 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.480 naval vessel still afloat. She makes it lea least one 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.920 quote turnaround a trip in the Boston Harbor every year, 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.400 where they take her out and dock her back again 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.920 in the opposite side for even more wear and tear 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.680 while docked. I was in Boston in the early nineteen 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.160 nineties where she was under major renovations. She was barely 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.480 a hull and timbers from what I remember. About a 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.360 dozen years later, I visited again when she was fully 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.160 restored and beautiful. I asked our guide on the tour 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.760 how much of the ship was original. He said about 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.920 fifteen percent as original, mostly below the waterline. He then 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.040 motioned towards the bow of the ship, toward the sick deck. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.280 I don't know what a sick deck is anyway, sick 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.800 deck and said, quote, do you see those brass nuts 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.400 and bolts in the bulkhead? They were made by Paul Revere. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:49.000 I was impressed. Um. He mentions that Malcolm Gladwell talked 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.920 about the Ship of Theseus in an episode of the 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.360 Revisionist History podcast. Yes, and I do remember. I do 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.680 remember listening to that one. Now I believe he was. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.280 I believe this was the the golf episode. Yeah, he 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.800 explains it so, Jim Rights. This was an episode about 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.880 golf courses on California. California property taxes are based upon 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.440 the value of your property when you purchased it, not 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.880 on current value. This was to prevent retired couples who 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.280 owned their houses from being forced to move due to 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.800 taxes when the value of their home skyrocketed. But what 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.880 about the Gulf country Club who owns them? They are 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.280 owned by the members, much like the members of a 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.520 credit union. But when does membership change so as to 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.760 recalculate the tax? The tax regulators determined that an individual 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.680 member leaving or joining was not enough to not enough 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.960 of a change to trigger a new property value. Therefore, 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.840 the golf courses are taxed that there are property values 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.400 from decades ago, even if the entire membership from those 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.160 original days has completely turned over. Given this logic, the 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.760 THESEUS Country Club never changes its ownership, especially for tax purposes, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.520 even if the entire membership turns over multiple times over 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.760 the decades. And then he also has a ps with 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.160 Star Trek transporter issues. I don't know, we could get 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.359 into those maybe maybe not sure. I'm I'm I'm positive 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.040 that um our our producer Alex would would would would 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.520 prefer that we get into these teleportation issues from track 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.000 so Jim Rights. In the old show, some sort of 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.320 cosmic dust causes Kirk to reassemble twice on the transporter. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.640 He was split into good and evil. It was their 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.800 Jecklin Highe homage. In the Next Generation, Riker is found 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.680 stranded as an outcast on a waste land of a planet. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.840 But hasn't he been on the Enterprise for years? He 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.280 had been on the barren planet when with a previous 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.760 ship before the Next Generation started. When beamed up from 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.919 the previous assignment, his signal was split by something in 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.800 the atmosphere. One copy materialized on his ship, the other 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.280 bounced back to the surface of the planet where he 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.080 re materialized, but no one knew the stranded Ricker wasn't 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.040 too pleased that no one had come looking for him. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.000 Oh man, what if that just happened? It turns out 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.879 it just happens all the time, like one out of 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.080 every five teleportations, and Star Trek ends up shooting a 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.760 random copy of you either to the surface of the 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.439 of the deserted planet or you know or you know, 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.000 into the walls. It is a galaxy full of like 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.280 Kirks and the you know, the red Shirt away parties. Now, 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.880 this next one, he mentions, is one of the episodes 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.199 I remember the most uh from watching Star Trek The 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.080 Next Generation as a kid, and yet I totally forgot 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.600 about this whole uh you know, teleportation ship of theseus 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.680 angle right gim rights. In the next generation the Dyson's 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.480 Fear episode, we meet Mr Scott from the old show, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.639 but he hasn't aged from the movies, which took place 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.600 decades previously. How he had put himself into a form 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.919 of stasis I don't remember exactly why, which placed him 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.920 in an infinite disassemble slash as symbol cycle, basically freezing 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.000 time until he was found. Yes, I forgot all about 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.560 that because it's it's a pretty distracting aspect of that 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.080 episode that there's a dycense here and if you you 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.879 were like me, you never encountered that concept before. It 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.399 was pretty mind blowing enough so that it overshadowed the 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:12.320 sort of glitching uh teleporter mishaps of of of Dr 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.560 Scott here, Mr Scott, Mr Scott say, I was never 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.840 a classic track guy. I'm not sure what his credentials are. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.040 I've been I've been lashed by our fans enough about 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.360 not having sufficient treknowledge. General Scott, that's correct, that's correct, 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:32.840 Admiral Dr Scott dds um one. Last note in Voyager 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.480 two characters information was mixed somehow. It wasn't a fifty 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.960 fifty mix. It was more like a sixty forty mix. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.760 In both cases, the sixty personality wasn't too keen on 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.199 sharing their bodies with the other. I only saw this 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.760 episode once, and when it originally aired, I think the 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.480 two characters were male and female. I have a memory 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.080 that they cast two different actors to play each so 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.720 as to make the fusion even more realistic. Oh nice, Yeah, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.119 I don't usually think a Star Trek is realistic, but 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.960 uh well, I'd explored a lot of territory. I will 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.639 say this. Uh. I am definitely pro Star Trek, especially 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.119 Next Generation and the Space nine. Uh And I'm not 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.760 really a fan of golf, so I will say check 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.400 out Star Trek by all means, but also check out 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:20.399 that Malcolm Gladwell a revisionist history episode about golf. He 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.080 he promises at the beginning that he says that he 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.480 hates golf, and by end, by the end of the episode, 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:27.800 he hopes that he thinks that you'll hate golf as well. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.200 Uh And, and I think I did hate golf even 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.320 more after listening to that episode. It's a great podcast. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.199 It just fills you with insightful rage. It's great for 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.240 road trips. Okay, maybe we should look at a couple 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.159 more Ship of THESEUS mails. All right, here's another one. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.359 This one comes to us from Marcos. I love your podcast. 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:48.840 I have to say it's my favorite way of passing 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.399 time on my commute. Conversation and conjecture turn a undane 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.679 daily trip into a timeless voyage. I was voyaging on 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:57.800 your Ship of Theseus episode when it occurred to me 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.679 that our constitution, by by this means the the U. S. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.280 Constitution has in a way become a document of THESEUS. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.600 The words like planks, have warped and rotted in a way, 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.560 and have been replaced each generation by new interpretations of 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.520 the same letters. It's as if each year a plank 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:21.080 is removed, studied, whittled, and placed back, so that the 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.600 same ship is now one of immense complexity and context. 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.959 Even a strict structuralist interpretation fills the same words with 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.400 more subtlety and complexity than the original carpenters ever did. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.080 I'm also thinking that the physical U. S. S Constitution 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.320 might embody an actual example of a true modernship of THESEUS. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.000 It's an interesting parallel. Thanks for adding insight to my 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.679 otherwise absent drive another reference to the old Iron Sides. 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.240 But this is interesting about the document because I mean, 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:56.240