1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous historians. Welcome to our classic episode. For this week, 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: we have been going through a bit of a phase 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: with tradecraft and spying and World War Two and all 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: those off off camera shenanigans, backstage shenanigans that determined the 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: course of history. Max, Is it fair to am I like? 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: Am I alone in this between you, me and Nola? 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: Am I the only guy who's obsessed with spies in 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: World War Two? 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: No? It's awesome. I mean, especially the story. 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 3: I mean this is literally where the idea James Bond 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 3: came from. I mean, this is what fleming. Fleming worked 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 3: in intelligence in World War Two. This is where our fictionalized, 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 3: you know, obsessive view of spies come from. Is this 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: era and the things they were doing? 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well said, We're going to meet a guy 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: named Juan Pougeot originally volunteered to spy for the British 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: during World War Two and they didn't take him seriously. 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: In today's classic episode, we are exploring the story of 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: one of the most successful double agents in modern history. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: We can't wait for you to hear it. As a 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: matter of fact, why delay here? 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: It goes? 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. 24 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: So it's no. 25 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Secret that here on Ridiculous History we often explore the 26 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: stories of con artists who make their way through the 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: world via subterfuge and deception. We often talk about this 28 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: in a villainous sense. We talked about malicious con artists, 29 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: you know, liars, fraudsters, things of that nature. But today 30 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about a good sort of con, a con 31 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: for the greater benefit of humanity. We're talking about one 32 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: of the most well known and most successful spies of 33 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: World War Two. Oh also, I'm Ben Ben. 34 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: You are Ben, If that's your real name, I have 35 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: many names. My name is Noel with the one and 36 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 2: only Noel. Well, I'm gonna go by Noel the Firestarter 37 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: Brown today in honor of Keith Flint harp, Yeah, Keith Flint, 38 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: the Twisted Firestarter, And that is Casey as our super producer, 39 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: Casey Pegrin. In the fact, that's the. 40 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 4: One A little short aside my first concert ever nineteen 41 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 4: ninety eight, the Tabernacle Atlanta, Georgia Prodigy Meat Beat Manifesto. 42 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 4: As the opener was. 43 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: How was the show? 44 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 4: It was great. You know, you never really know what 45 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: to expect from like an electronics show. Sometimes it's just 46 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 4: dudes stand behind a laptop, but they really really put 47 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 4: everything into that performance. They had the dancers, which was 48 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 4: Keith's primary role, and there was like a pit and 49 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 4: it was really intense, and it was a little scary 50 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 4: as like a fourteen year old or whatever. 51 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: Oh man, I bet you were almost afraid you were 52 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: gonna get like steamrolled. 53 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there were a lot of big 54 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 4: dudes there. 55 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: Well that's the thing too with Keith and the Prodigy, 56 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: and like his vocals were almost more like punk rock, 57 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: shouty kind of stuff, and that was a time in 58 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: the nineties where techno there was a pit It was 59 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: almost more of like a punk rock aesthetic where if 60 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: you know the iconic fire Starter video where he's kind 61 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: of like mugging into the camera and he's all pierced up, 62 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: and it was like, we'd never seen a dude like 63 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: that in the States at that point, short of like 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: the sex Pistols or something like that. And so he's 65 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: a very iconic looking guy, and his vocal style was 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: absolutely copied and even parodied because it became such an 67 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: iconic part of like the sound of like nineties electronic. 68 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: It was percussive, almost so like his vocals were in 69 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: almost an instrument of punctuation or percussion. Speaking of iconic. 70 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: Before we get today's show, we do have an announcement 71 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: that will make will make rough sense, but will make 72 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: even more sense if you are a member of our 73 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: community page Ridiculous Historians. So, in a previous episode, folks, 74 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: Nolan and I had kicked around the idea of a 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: T shirt with Casey's face audit and Casey, will you 76 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: know we're all actually friends even when we're not on 77 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: the air. So we asked Casey. He was cool with it, 78 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: and we got a hard man man. 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: It was a hard man. 80 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: It was a hard man. And now we have an announcement. 81 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: We had taken a break earlier today and Casey, you 82 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: you said that you would be comfortable with us having 83 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: having a photo of you on a T shirt, but 84 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: only a very particular kind of photo. Now, I don't 85 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: know if we should spoil the surprise just yet, but 86 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: tune in later because we have we have something very 87 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: special coming up for all our fans of Casey on 88 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: the Case. 89 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, we can just say that we're going to tie 90 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 4: up a loose end from earlier in the show's history. 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 4: If you've been listening for a while, there were certain 92 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 4: things that were promised earlierly on and that will maybe 93 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: come to fruition now. 94 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: I love it. 95 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: I love how this this feels like subterfuge. It feels 96 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: like we're talking in spycraft, right, it really does. 97 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: Ben And way to bring it back around to the 98 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 2: actual topic of today's show, a well, which you set 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: up a very famous gentleman who wasn't at the time 100 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: famous for much of anything. He was kind of waff 101 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: lay in his life, in his career, in his prospects. 102 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: I think he ran kind of a third rate motel 103 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: in Spain. A man whose last name you may know 104 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: poujol One poujol Garcia. Yeah, born in nineteen twelve on 105 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: Valentine's Day. Fun fact, he was one of those people 106 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: who's sort of like a compass, swinging and searching for 107 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: true north. As you said, Noel, he he ran a motel. 108 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: I believe he ran a movie theater as well. For 109 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: a while, it was going job to job. He didn't 110 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 1: feel like the academy or higher education was his particular 111 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: bag of beans. But he lived in Spain, and in 112 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one he did his six months of compulsory 113 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: military service in Spain, and he hated working for the military, 114 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: which would come in handy later. He hated everything about it. 115 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: He specifically said, did you see this quote? He specifically 116 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: said that he lacked the essential qualities of loyalty, generosity, 117 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: and honor necessary to be a good member of the military. 118 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but something that he did have in spades was 119 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: a vibrant imagination and an ability to kind of almost 120 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: just sink into the background and be simultaneously able to 121 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: convince people of things and also be completely innocuous and unnoticed. 122 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: Just a super important skill to have if you are 123 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: to be a spy. Let alone, what Pougeol became just 124 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: one of the most famous double agents in the history 125 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: of military affairs, right right? 126 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: But how how did this guy who was a relatively 127 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: unhappy manager of things and a relatively dissatisfied member of society, 128 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: how did he move from mediocrity to excellence? Also, I 129 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: want to say, do we ment I think we mentioned 130 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: this earlier on the show in a previous episode. You 131 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: hit on the crucial definition of an effective spy. Nol 132 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: An effective spy is not James Bond. In fact, if 133 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: you think about it, James Bond is a terrible, terrible, 134 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: terrible spy. He's drunk all the time, he uses his 135 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: real name. He is super flashy, you know what I mean. 136 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: A real spy is the guy who's in the corner 137 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: or the lady who's in the corner like ten meters 138 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: away from James Bond taking notes. You know, this guy 139 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: was not James Bond. This guy was not James Bond. 140 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: And let's look at how he became so successful. Let's 141 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: go back to the nineteen thirties. In nineteen thirty six, 142 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War begins. He is managing a poultry farm. 143 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: His sister's fiance is captured by the Republican forces, and 144 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: then his sister and his mother are arrested their charge 145 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: with being counter revolutionaries, and he gets called up for 146 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: service on the Republican side of the war. But because 147 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: the Republican government treated his family so poorly, he says, 148 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to skip out, and he hides at his 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: girlfriend's house and then he's discovered and a police raid. 150 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: He goes to jail for a week. 151 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: He's freed via a resistance group, and then he hides 152 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: with them until he can make some false ideas really 153 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: that show him to be too old to be in 154 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: the army. And so he goes back to managing another 155 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: poultry farm, but this one's under control of the Republican government, 156 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: and the inefficiency of the farm and the inefficiency of 157 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: the government, according to his life story, makes him hate 158 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: Communism even more than you already hated it. 159 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And then he ends up in 160 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: said third rate motel in Madrid, which was ever so 161 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: ironically named The Majestic Fantastic Mental Floss. Article goes through 162 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: some of this history of this fascinating man. So he 163 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 2: hates Communism. At this point, he is not living his 164 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: best life. He is depressed. He is just kind of 165 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: you know, Spain is just crumbling around him with this 166 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: civil war that they were doing. They were going so 167 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: far as to like turning bull rings into theaters, I 168 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: guess for like public executions. It was not a happy 169 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 2: place to be. So he's already learned to kind of 170 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: keep his head down and blend into the background and 171 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: be as innocuous as possible as not to you know, 172 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: catch a bullet because he also he doesn't sympathize with 173 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: either either side of this conflict. He hates the communists 174 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: and he also hates the fascists. 175 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: Right because he rejoined that Republican side using these false papers, 176 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: and he intended to get out of the area they 177 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: controlled to Dessert and he deserts to the nationalist side 178 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: of the conflict, and then they treat him like garbage too, 179 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: so he says, you know what, I hate it hate 180 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: the communists, I hate the fascist And then he is 181 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: learning increasingly to try to keep his head down. 182 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: So through his post at this hotel and through the 183 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: just the ramshackle nature of Spain during the Civil War, 184 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: he ends up becoming kind of successful at helping people 185 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: procure things. He meets two pro Franco princesses who are 186 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: aging and they really want to get their hands on 187 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 2: some scotch, so he decides, okay, I'm going to smuggle 188 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 2: in some scotch from over the border in Portugal, and 189 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: he's able to get papers. He doesn't have a passport 190 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: at the time, and does this job for these princesses 191 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: and that gives him the papers that he needs to 192 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: then leave the country. 193 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: So he leaves the country. But there's terrible timing involved, 194 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: because just a few weeks earlier, in September of nineteen 195 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: thirty nine, England had declared war on Germany and German 196 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: forces led by Adolf Hitler were starting to eat up Europe. 197 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: The word about the concentration camps had had leaked to 198 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: the public, and Pujol found himself trapped. He found himself trapped, 199 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: and he found himself incensed, livid. He wrote about this 200 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: later in a book called Operation Garbo, which came out 201 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five. 202 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: And we have a quote, yeah, and this is from 203 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: that Mental Floss article that we highly recommend you checking out. 204 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 2: He says, my humanist convictions would not allow me to 205 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: turn a blind eye to the enormous suffering that was 206 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: being unleashed by this psychopath Hitler, and he decided he 207 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: wanted to do something about it. This is so this 208 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: is so great because he had limited military training, he 209 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 2: wasn't very good at it, and he hated it. He 210 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: basically defected. And then now he's like running booze for 211 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: aged you know, princesses, and all of a sudden, he 212 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 2: like he hears his calling. 213 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, his compass that was swinging wildly finds it's true 214 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: North and this is the part that always cracks me up. 215 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen forty one, he strolls into the 216 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: British embassy. He mosy's in and he's he says, hey, 217 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: you guys. 218 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: Want to like a do you want like a spy 219 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: or something like? 220 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: Can? I I'm interested in contributing to the effort, but 221 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't think the militaries for me. And then they 222 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: say you can't just walk in here and say make 223 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: me a spy. What are your qualifications? Do you know 224 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: anything about spying? Do you hold an important government position? 225 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: Can you do anything? What do you bring to the 226 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: table other than your desire to be sneaky? 227 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Brits aren't exactly known for their like willingness 228 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: to just kind of like riff and just go with 229 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: it and roll with it. Right now. They want some 230 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: They want some bona fides from this guy. They want 231 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: to be able to vet him and prove that he 232 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: actually is what he says he is and can do 233 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: what he says he can do. So they send him 234 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: a packing. So he's like, okay, okay, I know what 235 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: my endgame has. My endgame is to help out the Brits, 236 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: but they don't need me right now because I am 237 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: nothing to them. What am I? So he decides to 238 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: do the most insane thing, the most insane turn about. 239 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: I am going to make myself indispensable and an asset 240 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: to the Germans, the enemy of my friend or my 241 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: perceived friend, and the folks who I want to be 242 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: aligned with. So he goes to the Germans. They're a 243 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: little bit more willing to kind of like take what 244 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 2: they can get and install various spies of various pedigrees, 245 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: and so they more or less take him at his word. 246 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: And what's his cover story? Ben Oh? 247 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: So he literally calls the German embassy and his cover 248 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: story is a list of absolute bs. He is winging it, 249 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: he's improvising, you know, I love good improvisation. And he 250 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: meets a guy with a. 251 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: Code name Federico. 252 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: So he meets this guy and this is total, this 253 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: is total, straight out of the movies kind of spy stuff. Right, 254 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: He's told this, there will be this guy Federico in 255 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: a light suit holding a raincoat in the back of 256 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: a cafe. This guy's trained to spot frauds and Prujol says, 257 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: first off, let me tell you this, and he starts 258 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: talking about how much he loves Hitler. He's very, very 259 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: pro Nazi, he loves their whole thing. And then he 260 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: starts saying that he is friends with a ton of diplomats, 261 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: a ton of VIPs, very influential people. This impresses his 262 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: contact that he meets, and he gets his callback, as 263 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: you would phrase it in the world of auditions. He 264 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: gets his He gets his call back. But there's one 265 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: problem with these diplomats, isn't there No. 266 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: We're all bogus. That's true. They're not real, and neither 267 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: are the reports that he is giving them what he 268 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: refers to as chicken feed, little bits and bobs of 269 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: military supposed military intelligence, like the movement of troops and 270 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: battalions throughout England, et cetera. And he cobbles together these 271 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: facts that I guess he did. He just make them 272 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: up off the top of his head. Yes, yeah, but 273 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: he makes them up so they sound so convincing that 274 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: even the Brits start thinking they have a mole because 275 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: someone is like leaking this even though they're vague and 276 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: not real. How did he do that? Ben I'm a 277 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: little I'm a little foggy on how this happened, because 278 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: apparently the Brits caught wind of some of this intelligence 279 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: that was being leaked to the Germans, and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, 280 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: We've got to put a cap on this leak that 281 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: we have, right, Okay, So here's how it happens. 282 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: The contact that he meets says, look, we don't need 283 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: any more Nazi spies in Spain. We need someone to 284 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: go abroad. And the guy's like, cool, I've got a passport. 285 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: He says, go to Lisbon, get an exit visa. And 286 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: he goes to Lisbon. Looks like a dead end, looks 287 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: like he can't get the document. He needs a diplomatic visa, 288 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: but he befriends a guy in Portugal who is able 289 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: to help him get this visa. Well, he steals the 290 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: visa essentially by help him get the visa. He befriends 291 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: the guy and steals it, and then he forges this document. 292 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: He comes back to Spain, he shows his contact Federico, 293 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: and the guy is impressed, so he says, all right, 294 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: I'll give you this stuff you need. I'll give you 295 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: invisible ink. I'll give you the codes we use. Here's 296 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: three grand and here's your code name. Arabell so ben 297 00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: I was looking desperate. 298 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 2: I'm like, surely he had some real intel that he 299 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 2: was using to make these reports that he was delivering 300 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: to the Germans seem more believable. But no, it just 301 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: turns out he was just so good at crafting what 302 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: sounded like realistic intel that even the Brits were concerned 303 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: that they had somebody funneling information to the Germans. And 304 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: there's an amazing interview with author Stephen Talti, who wrote 305 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: a book entitled Agent Garbo with a brilliant, eccentric secret 306 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: agent who tricked Hitler and saved D Day, And he 307 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: describes the British response to what they perceived as a 308 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: very real threat in terms of information being funneled to 309 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: the Germans. He says the British were terrified. They were like, 310 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: someone is sneak past our lines and someone is in 311 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: the heart of the beast reporting on us. Because Poujol's 312 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: reports were so believable, even to the people in the 313 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 2: country that he was supposed to be spying on. Yeah. 314 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a great article in Big Think Dot com 315 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: about this story as well. The article is Juan Poujol 316 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: gar the WW two double agent who secretly controlled the war. 317 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: I know it sounds like a hyperbolic claim, but here's 318 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: what happened. 319 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 2: He did fool everybody. 320 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: He said, okay, I will go to London, so his 321 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: German spymasters think he is in London. But as as 322 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned, he has never been to London. He doesn't 323 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: speak English, and he just starts making stuff up using 324 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: a tour guide, using publicly available information from newsreels, and 325 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: then he also starts making a spy network in London. Again, 326 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: he's still in Portugal. He's making a spy network in 327 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: London with people who do not exist. And these reports 328 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: sound so realistic that they fool the British. They fool 329 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: the British intelligence services, and the British launch a man 330 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: hunt to find this mysterious arabell. Yeah, they've given him 331 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: his name the Germans. The Germans answered Prairie right, yes, 332 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: and what a wily fox this poujol was. Now, he 333 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: didn't get everything right. The reports weren't perfect, but at 334 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: the time the British were panicking because there were supposed 335 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: to be no Axis spies in Britain, and there was 336 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: one huge trick that made the British believe in his 337 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: value as a spy. He invented an entirely fictional armada, 338 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: a British armada in Malta, and based on the reports 339 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: of this again fictitious armada, the Axis powers spent a 340 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: ton of time and money trying to find them. They 341 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: responded in full force. They got there. There was nothing there, 342 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: of course, and they continued to still trust his information. 343 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: So finally, finally, finally, finally, in nineteen forty two, based 344 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: primarily on that story of the armada, he was able 345 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: to convince the British to hire him. 346 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: Do you think he was like, Hey, remember me, I'm back. 347 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: I've got something for you. I think it will make 348 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 2: you want me. Please want me the British. No, but 349 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: he they do want him. Boy, do they ever want him? 350 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 2: He is the Not only is he the Germans answered prayers, 351 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: He's actually their worst nightmare. It turns out he is 352 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 2: the the British is answered prayers, and he is handed 353 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: over to the Security Service for handling. Let's say there 354 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 2: he is. He's assigned an officer by the name of 355 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: tama Are Tommy Harris who speaks Spanish, because again this 356 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: is mind blowing to me. He doesn't speak English. No, 357 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: he does not speak English. And then what followed was 358 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 2: a partnership between the two men who were very well matched. 359 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: And there's a really great article on the history of 360 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: m I five m I five dot gov dot UK 361 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: slash Agentcarbos, the whole, the whole deal there, and they 362 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 2: really compliment each other, and they had this give and 363 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 2: take relationship that allowed them to be synergistically effective. I mean, 364 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: really really an incredible pairing of these two guys. Yeah. 365 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And it's strange to look back, with the benefit 366 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: of all this stuff being declassified later and see just 367 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: how extraordinarily ambitious and ballsy this stuff was. He eventually 368 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: he invented twenty seven fictional subagents, and he would assign 369 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: various reports to these people, so it would rarely be 370 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: him finding out something directly, would rarely be Arabell. Arabell 371 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: became a spymaster as far as the Nazis were concerned, 372 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: but his reports were mixed up in a very clever way. 373 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes it would be stuff that was true but didn't 374 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: matter at all. You know what, I mean like, oh, 375 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: they're paving some road in London or whatever. Sometimes it 376 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: would be incredibly false stuff. Something is wrong, or it's 377 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: in a different location or the numbers are different. Sometimes 378 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: it would be real stuff that was very valuable, and 379 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: that stuff just never made it to Germany on time, 380 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: and it's say like, oh, okay, a two week old 381 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: report says in a week this will happen. 382 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: Well, because of having real access to I five into 383 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 2: all of this information obviously upped his game in terms 384 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 2: of double agent nests. Right before he was succeeding just 385 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 2: by his own you know, moxie. Right now he's actually 386 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: got the real goods to weave in some of those 387 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: real true facts and make the Germans really believe he 388 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: was still on their side. 389 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: So here's a cool example of that. He gave Germany 390 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: accurate intel on Allied forces landing in North Africa. And 391 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: the letter is poostmarked before the landing, but timed to 392 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: arrive after the landing. And so instead of getting irritated 393 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: with the guy, the Nazis up apologize. They say this 394 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: is great information and it's our bad that we didn't act. 395 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: Curse the post office. 396 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 2: Use stamps dot com instead. 397 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: Yes, Stamps dot com. That's our commercial for Stamps dot com. 398 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: So what happens next, Like, how is he able to 399 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: successfully keep this rigorm role going? 400 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: That's a really good question. Man. Before we go there, 401 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: I want to backtrack, ever so slightly, just to show 402 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: the Kahones, the true cohones of our boy Pujol. When 403 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 2: he went to the Germans and gave them this BS 404 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: cover story, it was all stuff they totally could have 405 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 2: verified or or you know, shot down. They just didn't 406 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 2: do their homework basically right because they had access to 407 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: Portugal or to Lisbon and they just didn't do it 408 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: for whatever reason. They were so thirsty for what he 409 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: had to offer because he did such a good job 410 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 2: of like you know, doing kind of a upclose magic 411 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: kind of misdirection right, So that is incredible. He could 412 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: have died instantly. They would have put him in a 413 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 2: concentration camp lickety split if they had found out that 414 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: he was he was trying to play them. So, yes, 415 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: how do they maintain this subterfuge? Ben? As he has 416 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 2: now been gifted with the assistance of the Brits, he 417 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 2: they are still they are like upping their game. They've 418 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: got three hundred and fifteen documents they've sent back to 419 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 2: the Germans, some of which are peppered with real information, 420 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: but too late, fake information that makes them think that 421 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: they're actually getting some help. How does this kind of 422 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 2: come to critical mass? 423 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: Ben Well, he kept escalating his stunts, his cons. We 424 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: mentioned his imaginary spies. They included traveling salesman, a waiter 425 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: who lives in a cave, a retired Welsh seamen, an 426 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: Indian poet, someone with OCD, a radio mechanic. These folks 427 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: filed expense reports and some earned salaries. They were their 428 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: expenses were paid, and their salaries were paid by the 429 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: Nazi Party. By nineteen forty three, he has become one 430 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: of their favorite people, one of Germany's favorite people as 431 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: far as spycraft is concerned. The spy ring that Abwer 432 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: sends him new cipher's new vials of disappearing inc. And 433 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: this just makes it easier for MI five to crack codes. 434 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: The Nazis in one memo, compare him to an army 435 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: of forty five thousand men. He's that valuable, and he 436 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: decides to cook up his biggest lie yet is this 437 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: Operation Fortitude? 438 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: Ben that you're talking about this is this is Operation 439 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: Fortitude lay it honestly. Yeah, so we've got January nineteen 440 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: forty four. The Germans believed that the Allies were getting 441 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 2: ready for a large scale European invasion, and they passed 442 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: this information on to Poujol and they asked him to 443 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: help keep them abreast of any developments in the new information. 444 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: So this gave Poujol what he needed to really turn 445 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 2: the tables and give the Allies the upper hand big time. 446 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: Right, So, under the code name Overlord, British and American 447 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: forces planned to invade occupied Europe. 448 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Germans were right. They thought they knew 449 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: what was going on, and they were absolutely correct. So 450 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 2: how is Pujol able to give what would seem like 451 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 2: the upper handed Germany for Germany and flip it back 452 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 2: around and make D Day a guaranteed success? Right? 453 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: Oh, we have to mention his code name was Arabelle 454 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: to the Nazis, but he add a code name to 455 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: the British once they hired him. Mister It was Agent Garbo, 456 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: named after Greta Garbo because they thought he was such 457 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: a good actor. 458 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will tell you if you see he's 459 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: got some pictures that are really funny. Headshot They always 460 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: look like headshots. He's dressed in like a German military garb, 461 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 2: and he's just doing this real actors type grin and 462 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 2: it really looks like somebody wearing a costume preparing to 463 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 2: go into a role. 464 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: And then you see his passport pictures and he looks 465 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: almost like a different person exactly. He's a little disheveled. 466 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: But yes, so Agent Garbo, as he is known in 467 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: the Allied Forces and the Allied intelligence networks. He has 468 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: a crucial role to play. The German high command needs 469 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: to be misled about the location of the landings. They 470 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: decide on the actual point of attack the beaches at Normandy, 471 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: and their next move is to persuade German forces that 472 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: the invasion force would be much much further north right, 473 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: confirming what Hitler had originally thought was going to be 474 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: the most likely point of contact. Garbo's agents would report 475 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: authoritatively that the Normandy landings were themselves a ruse and 476 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: there was a much bigger attack to come. So on 477 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: June ninth, he sends a key memo. 478 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just happened to be on a super 479 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: crucial day when Hitler and his cronies, his toadies, his 480 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 2: military high command were trying to decide whether Normandy was 481 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: the real deal or whether it was some kind of subterfuge. 482 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: And they were trying to plan the movement of their 483 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: troops and where they wanted to send the bulk of them. 484 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: They had some in Belgium, they had some in France, 485 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: and they were trying to decide whether they should divert 486 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: them down to Normandy and completely head off this invasion. 487 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 2: Pujol sent this telegram saying, no, this is fake. Seriously, 488 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: you are wasting your time. Don't use those resources at Normandy. 489 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: Send them elsewhere, because this is what's really happening. And 490 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: at the time those forces were already on the move. 491 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 2: So this was a clutch decision on the Germans. And 492 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 2: a telegram received right at the exact right time. If 493 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: it had been a little later would have been too late, 494 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: right they would they would not have rediverted the I imagine, 495 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: because it would have been taken too long. Time was 496 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: of the essence. They made their bed, they were going 497 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: to lie in it. But it was this crucial time 498 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: where a change of plan. 499 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: Was possible, right m H and the Panzer divisions were 500 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: already moving toward Normandy, but Adolf Hitler sent in order 501 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: based on this telegram and turned them around, sending them 502 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: instead to the northern point of contact, Pas de Calais. 503 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: In this lie was so effective that through July and 504 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: August of that year, the Nazi forces kept two armored 505 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: divisions and nineteenth infantry divisions in that northern point in 506 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: anticipation of an imminent invasion. So you would think after 507 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: D Day, you would imagine that after all this stuff 508 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: goes down and this house of cards collapses, that arabelaka 509 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: Garbo's reputation would be ruined amongst the German intelligence circles. However, 510 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: that was not the case. In fact, he won a 511 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: very prestigious award, prestigious, if we would say it in 512 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: the British way from the Germans, but from the Germans. Yeah, yeah, 513 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: oh was it? He got the Iron Cross. The Iron 514 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: Cross was rendered for his extraordinary services to Germany. And 515 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: the thing is this had to be approved by Adolf 516 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: Hitler himself, so he was notified he had been awarded 517 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: the Iron Cross. And then he and Harris said, you know, 518 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's such an honor. Truly unworthy, 519 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: but I'll take it. 520 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: And this is such a like, oh, it's like a 521 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 2: total fu type thing where they collaborated on this message 522 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: together Pugel and Harris. Harris was not known to the 523 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: Germans office. Pujel was exclusively their point of contact, and 524 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 2: they talked about offering humble thanks, humble thanks, such an honor. 525 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: Oh stop, let's keep going now, No, yeah, totally. And 526 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 2: yet Pujol remained unexposed to the Germans. But by September 527 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: of forty four, there have been a few close calls 528 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: that you know of Pujehl potentially being exposed unmasked to 529 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 2: the Nazis. Didn't happen, but the British security services like, 530 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 2: we're going to take extra care to make sure that 531 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: you are guarded against any potential retribution from the Germans. 532 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: But that didn't even ultimately prove to be necessary because 533 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: the war ended, and they even were hoping that his 534 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: background would allow him to get into post war Nazi 535 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: Germany and continue to do some good work. 536 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: As you said, he feared reprisal from Nazi survivors. The 537 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: Nazis never realized at this point that they had been 538 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: fooled and as Agent Garbo. He received an MBE from 539 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: the King on the fifth of November nineteen forty four, 540 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: the most Excellent Order of the British Empire. So he 541 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: is one of the few, if not the only, person 542 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: to receive prestigious awards from both Germany and the Allies. 543 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: That is most excellent. Here's an even cooler thing. I 544 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: feel like this is the ultimate bragging rate. What do 545 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: you do when you're the spy's pulled off everything? When 546 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: you do one last one last con, one big job, 547 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: one last one big job, one last ice. With the 548 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: help of m I five, Prujol travels to Angola and 549 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: fakes his death in nineteen forty nine. 550 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 2: Yeah for the ultimate cover. He died the ultimate protection 551 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: against the Germans. He dies of malaria. 552 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: He also moves to Venezuela and he starts managing a 553 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: story again. He runs a bookstore and gift shop. 554 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 2: That's all he ever wan and it's quiet life of 555 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 2: a shopkeeper. 556 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: Eventually, though, Thomas Harris is remember him his friend Anthony Blunt, 557 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: who turned out to be a Soviet spy right who 558 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: penetrated in My five. Eventually, this Anthony Blunt guy says 559 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: that he met Garbo and knew him as either Joan 560 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: or Jose Garcia, and people started searching for this guy. 561 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: And a British politician named Rupert Allison was interested in 562 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: the case of Garbo, and everyone he talked to did 563 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: not know Garbo's real name. That's how high the secrecy was. 564 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: The Soviet spy Blunt gives him that lead on a 565 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: Jose Garcia, and the guy is still searching. He eventually 566 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: hires a research assistant to get this call every j 567 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: Garcia in the Barcelona phone book, and eventually they get 568 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: in contact with Pajol's nephew, and then Rupert Allison finally 569 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: meets Pajol in New Orleans in nineteen eighty four, and 570 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: then Alison's like, dude, you're awesome. Thanks by the way, 571 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: thanks for d Day, thanks for all the cool stuff 572 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: he did. Will you go hang out with Prince Philip 573 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: because he'd love. 574 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 2: To meet you. He goes, okay, yeah, we'll go. What 575 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: do they do? Where do they hang? They have some tea? 576 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: We don't know, We just knew it was a quote 577 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: unusually long audience. Oh wow, So if you know Prince Philip, 578 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: who was probably like, tell me your wall stories. 579 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 2: Yes, please, I want to hear those. 580 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 4: Yeah. 581 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: And then he died in Caracas in nineteen eighty eight, 582 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: where he lived pretty anonymously, like I said, the quiet 583 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: life of a ShopKeep who happened to be one of 584 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: the most badass and outlandish and effective double asians in 585 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: the history of spycraft. It's certainly the one we know about, right, 586 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 2: Definitely no James Bond, Bravado and this guy. He was 587 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 2: simultaneously brazen and perfectly measured in the way he did. 588 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 2: He pulled this stuff off because you have to have 589 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 2: some kind of throwing caution to the wind kind of 590 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 2: attitude to even attempt some of this stuff. But you 591 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: can't just you can't be reckless, right, He had to 592 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: like kind of have a system and stick to it 593 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,280 Speaker 2: and have some discipline, you know, I mean, really really 594 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 2: interesting character. 595 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: Some of his fictional subagents also met their end. Agent 596 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: one retired in nineteen forty three, Agent six died, so 597 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 1: he followed up on their lives as well. 598 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 2: Dude, some of these fictional agents had richer lives than 599 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 2: I have had. So, I mean, this is very very precise, 600 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: detail oriented stuff with this guy who's building these fictional Universes. 601 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 2: I mean, it's world building. It his finest what this 602 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: guy's doing. 603 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: And if you'd like to read more about Juan Prujol Garcia, 604 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: there is the book we mentioned Garbo. There's also a 605 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: great article on Badass of Theweek dot com, which I 606 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: think is cool. If you're ever listening to one of 607 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: our pure podcasts, Behind the Bastards, which is an excellent show, 608 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: and you're feeling down about life in general, then you 609 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: can find out about some historic good guys on Badass 610 00:36:58,920 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: of the Week dot com. 611 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 2: And it's funny you think of this guy as a badass, 612 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 2: and he certainly was. But a good spy probably doesn't 613 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 2: have to kill very often, right, a good spy you 614 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 2: only have to kill if you're either an assassin or 615 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 2: your cover is blown right, right, And he didn't kill it. Well, 616 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: he is responsible for death, absolutely, but you don't hear 617 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 2: any stories of him having to have, you know, slipped 618 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 2: someone a poisoned dart or something like that, or a 619 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 2: little no no no. 620 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: He's a way better spy than James Bond. 621 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 5: I agree. I agree, James Bond is kind of a hack, yeah, 622 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 5: when you think about it. So hopefully we don't get 623 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 5: too much hate mail about that. I will admit I 624 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 5: do enjoy the films. 625 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 2: I do, and they're all on Netflix now, by the way, 626 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 2: or even even like the Timothy Dalton ones, and like 627 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 2: the Roger all of them. I don't really want to 628 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 2: dig back in. You know what else is on streaming? Now? 629 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 2: What's that? This is a recommendation, I guess if we're 630 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 2: doing that, I think we wrapped up with the show. 631 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 2: On Amazon Prime, you can find this insane cash of 632 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 2: terrible eighties B movies. Oh yeah, and all of these 633 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: genres like sword and sorcery, kind of slasher type genre movies, thrillers, 634 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 2: spy thrillers. But they're like the C level ones. They're 635 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 2: the ones that were like, so you had your Cone 636 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 2: in the Barbarian, which is a big hit. Then you 637 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 2: have this whole pile of like kind of copycat movies 638 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: that are very entertaining and they do not age well, 639 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 2: but they're a lot of fun if you want to 640 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 2: dig in on Amazon Prime. 641 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: I have a comic book recommendation. Hoay, I may have 642 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: said this before. As a matter of fact, I bet 643 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: I have, But I want to put the word out 644 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: there because I just reread it. 645 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 2: There is a. 646 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: Comic series called Uber and its follow up is Uber Invasion. 647 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: It's an historical account of World War Two if a 648 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: specific type of superpower were discovered. I don't want to 649 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: say any more than that. I don't want to spoil it. 650 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 1: It's amazing. 651 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 2: You should. 652 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: You should check it out if you are at all 653 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: interested in good graphic novels. It is ongoing, so at 654 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: this point, I don't know how it ends either. I 655 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: would love to hear your opinion about it. You could 656 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 1: tell us about this. You could tell us about some 657 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: of your favorite spy stories on our Instagram, on our Facebook, 658 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter, on Facebook, we highly recommend you check out 659 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: your fellow listener's opinions on our community page Ridiculous Historians. 660 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: You can follow us to believe we're a ridiculous history 661 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: show on Instagram. 662 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 2: That's right, Ridiculous History show on Instagram. And I am 663 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 2: personally at Embryonic Insider if you feel like hanging out with. 664 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: Me, and I am at Ben Bolin if you feel 665 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: like seeing some weird stuff, no spoilers. 666 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 2: Wow, you're really that's a good teas man. That's a 667 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 2: good teas I don't think you'll be let down either 668 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 2: Ben gets up to some shenanigans. Let me tell you. 669 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: If you don't wan to see that stuff, he can 670 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 2: send us an email ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com. Thanks 671 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 2: to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Yeah, thanks to 672 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 2: Casey Pegram who composed our hearts. The theme of our Hearts, 673 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 2: that's what he composed. Me. If that's his real name, 674 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 2: I think it possibly might not be, but I am 675 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 2: going to respect his privacy. 676 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, what if his real name is just a 677 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: clever switcheroo of the letters. What if his real name 678 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: is like pacey Kegrim. 679 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 2: I like that. 680 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: That's pretty fun And thanks to our research associate Gabe. 681 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: Thanks to Thanks to you, Noel. This has been an 682 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: absolute pleasure. And now I'm going to spend the afternoon 683 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: figuring out what our core spy nicknames would be. Will 684 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: you be sure and let me know, Ben, You let 685 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: me know if you've got one, Hey, let us know 686 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 1: if you've got one. 687 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 688 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 689 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.