1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Nearly every night, before I head to bed, I 2 00:00:24,276 --> 00:00:26,596 Speaker 1: pull out my little red date book and update my 3 00:00:26,676 --> 00:00:29,356 Speaker 1: to do list for the next day. The list is 4 00:00:29,476 --> 00:00:32,676 Speaker 1: usually pretty long, but if I actually put down everything 5 00:00:32,716 --> 00:00:35,836 Speaker 1: I wanted to get done, it would probably sound something 6 00:00:35,916 --> 00:00:40,676 Speaker 1: like this. Meditate for ten minutes, go to a yoga class, 7 00:00:40,836 --> 00:00:43,076 Speaker 1: crept from my happiness course, bring the car in for 8 00:00:43,116 --> 00:00:45,476 Speaker 1: an oil change, think about some cool new guest for 9 00:00:45,516 --> 00:00:47,996 Speaker 1: the podcast, don't get behind on that inbox, get in 10 00:00:48,036 --> 00:00:50,476 Speaker 1: some quality times with my weake, time to have more fun, 11 00:00:50,596 --> 00:00:57,156 Speaker 1: get eight hours of sleep, and so on. Now, when 12 00:00:57,196 --> 00:01:00,396 Speaker 1: I think about it rationally, I realize it's literally impossible 13 00:01:00,436 --> 00:01:02,756 Speaker 1: to get all those things done in a single day. 14 00:01:03,036 --> 00:01:05,916 Speaker 1: But no matter how much do, I constantly feel bad 15 00:01:05,996 --> 00:01:10,316 Speaker 1: about how much I didn't do. And that is the awful, yucky, 16 00:01:10,596 --> 00:01:13,476 Speaker 1: not good enough feeling that we'll be digging into today 17 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:16,996 Speaker 1: because in this episode in our season on Difficult Emotions, 18 00:01:17,316 --> 00:01:20,796 Speaker 1: we're going to examine guilt. I think guilt shown up 19 00:01:20,796 --> 00:01:23,116 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways for me that I wasn't 20 00:01:23,156 --> 00:01:26,676 Speaker 1: even noticing as guilt. But on one particular morning when 21 00:01:26,676 --> 00:01:29,156 Speaker 1: my son was in kindergarten, I think it was just 22 00:01:29,236 --> 00:01:31,876 Speaker 1: kind of the epitome of guilt taking over. This is 23 00:01:31,956 --> 00:01:35,036 Speaker 1: Valerie Briton. She's the author of Let Go of the Guilt, 24 00:01:35,316 --> 00:01:38,476 Speaker 1: Stop beating yourself up, and take back your joy. She 25 00:01:38,596 --> 00:01:41,836 Speaker 1: hit her rock bottom with guilt over a bowl of cereal. 26 00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:47,076 Speaker 1: We were getting ready and my son always wants just 27 00:01:47,116 --> 00:01:49,636 Speaker 1: some cereal, like he wants dry cereal and a cup 28 00:01:49,636 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 1: of milk, which for me is guilt inducing because my 29 00:01:53,996 --> 00:01:57,516 Speaker 1: mother made a full out Southern breakfast grits, eggs, bacon, 30 00:01:57,716 --> 00:02:02,596 Speaker 1: orange shoes, toast, so cereal for me was always just 31 00:02:02,636 --> 00:02:05,676 Speaker 1: a snack. I eat rice crispies after school, so I 32 00:02:05,756 --> 00:02:10,036 Speaker 1: already you know there's this thing of seal, but it's 33 00:02:10,036 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: what he wants. He doesn't like eggs, he doesn't want 34 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:14,356 Speaker 1: the other stuff. And so just as we were leaving 35 00:02:14,356 --> 00:02:19,716 Speaker 1: on this particular morning, my son says, Mommy, can I 36 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:25,516 Speaker 1: eat my cereal at the table today? And immediately, because 37 00:02:25,636 --> 00:02:27,796 Speaker 1: I knew we really didn't have time to do that, 38 00:02:27,996 --> 00:02:31,756 Speaker 1: I felt guilty about the prospect of saying no, and 39 00:02:31,836 --> 00:02:34,076 Speaker 1: so rather than saying what I knew I needed to say, 40 00:02:34,076 --> 00:02:37,716 Speaker 1: I let guilt step in and say, well, we have 41 00:02:37,796 --> 00:02:40,156 Speaker 1: to do it really fast, which you know you're talking 42 00:02:40,196 --> 00:02:42,676 Speaker 1: to a five or six year old and really fast 43 00:02:42,916 --> 00:02:44,916 Speaker 1: is not really fast. So by the time we get 44 00:02:44,916 --> 00:02:46,916 Speaker 1: out of the door, I'm like, we are not we 45 00:02:46,956 --> 00:02:48,916 Speaker 1: are going to be so late. And the problem was 46 00:02:49,276 --> 00:02:52,196 Speaker 1: my son schools across town and there's a bus that 47 00:02:52,276 --> 00:02:54,036 Speaker 1: comes to our areas. I have to get him to 48 00:02:54,116 --> 00:02:56,956 Speaker 1: the bus otherwise if we've missed the bus. It's about 49 00:02:56,956 --> 00:03:00,236 Speaker 1: a twenty five minute drive to the school. And so 50 00:03:00,596 --> 00:03:03,236 Speaker 1: we're racing up the street like my hands are just 51 00:03:03,356 --> 00:03:06,756 Speaker 1: gripping the steering wheel, my shoulders are tight. We get 52 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 1: to the parking lot where the usually waits, and I'm 53 00:03:11,956 --> 00:03:14,836 Speaker 1: turning in so fast that I hit a curb and 54 00:03:15,076 --> 00:03:20,516 Speaker 1: bust attire. And I still don't stop because I can't 55 00:03:20,516 --> 00:03:22,556 Speaker 1: go that fast, but I can hear like the rubber 56 00:03:22,636 --> 00:03:25,916 Speaker 1: from the tire like smacking the street. As I continue, 57 00:03:25,996 --> 00:03:28,156 Speaker 1: I see the bus and the bus is moving and 58 00:03:28,196 --> 00:03:30,596 Speaker 1: taking off, and I'm like, maybe he'll see me. I'm 59 00:03:30,596 --> 00:03:33,116 Speaker 1: sure not be recognized my car. The bus driver stops, 60 00:03:33,276 --> 00:03:35,236 Speaker 1: I get Alex off, I get him on the bus, 61 00:03:35,236 --> 00:03:40,156 Speaker 1: and I'm like, what just happened? And thinking back on it, 62 00:03:40,236 --> 00:03:42,156 Speaker 1: like when I even tried to explain it to my husband, 63 00:03:42,196 --> 00:03:46,116 Speaker 1: I was like it was guilt. I felt so guilty 64 00:03:46,796 --> 00:03:48,476 Speaker 1: that all he wanted was to sit at the team, 65 00:03:48,596 --> 00:03:50,476 Speaker 1: which would have been fine if he had asked fifteen 66 00:03:50,476 --> 00:03:53,516 Speaker 1: minutes sooner. I felt guilty that I was feeding him 67 00:03:53,556 --> 00:03:56,716 Speaker 1: cereal for breakfast instead of what my mom normally fed me. 68 00:03:57,356 --> 00:03:59,916 Speaker 1: And so what I realized is that so often what 69 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:03,596 Speaker 1: happens is we allow guilt to get in the driver's seat. 70 00:04:04,076 --> 00:04:08,116 Speaker 1: It's natural to feel any sort of negative emotion, but 71 00:04:08,156 --> 00:04:10,516 Speaker 1: what you don't want to for that emotion to take 72 00:04:10,636 --> 00:04:13,996 Speaker 1: over your decisions. And that's what happened that morning, which 73 00:04:14,076 --> 00:04:16,876 Speaker 1: was fairly expensive, as I called the tow truck and 74 00:04:17,116 --> 00:04:20,556 Speaker 1: waited for an uber to pick me up. I mean, 75 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:23,316 Speaker 1: I love this story because it's so relatable, right, it 76 00:04:23,356 --> 00:04:25,276 Speaker 1: has so many of the features of what happens to 77 00:04:25,316 --> 00:04:27,436 Speaker 1: me when I'm going through this process of guilt, right, 78 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,276 Speaker 1: Like one is that you have this awful flurry of 79 00:04:30,476 --> 00:04:32,876 Speaker 1: I'm not good enough thoughts over and over again, like 80 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:35,076 Speaker 1: I'm not my mother, what kind of mother? Oh my gosh, 81 00:04:35,076 --> 00:04:37,316 Speaker 1: I pop, that's hire. But the other is just the 82 00:04:37,396 --> 00:04:41,036 Speaker 1: way that gilt can cause these automatic reactions to take over, 83 00:04:41,476 --> 00:04:43,316 Speaker 1: you know, So talk about how this played out in 84 00:04:43,356 --> 00:04:45,756 Speaker 1: You're a scenario and why it's so powerful that we 85 00:04:45,836 --> 00:04:47,276 Speaker 1: need to kind of pay attention to this so we 86 00:04:47,316 --> 00:04:51,636 Speaker 1: can recognize guilt. Well, it happens so fast. I mean 87 00:04:51,876 --> 00:04:54,636 Speaker 1: it was probably not even two seconds before I had 88 00:04:54,636 --> 00:04:57,916 Speaker 1: already answered his question, but a whole movie had played 89 00:04:57,916 --> 00:05:00,996 Speaker 1: out in my mind before I answered it. You know, Mommy, 90 00:05:01,036 --> 00:05:03,636 Speaker 1: can I eat at the table? And immediately like I 91 00:05:03,676 --> 00:05:06,476 Speaker 1: had this flashback to being a kid in Germany and 92 00:05:06,876 --> 00:05:09,516 Speaker 1: one morning my mother fitting me cereal. I thought she 93 00:05:09,596 --> 00:05:11,436 Speaker 1: was just feeding me a snack, and when we got 94 00:05:11,436 --> 00:05:13,276 Speaker 1: ready to go, I was like, where's my breakfast? Like 95 00:05:13,436 --> 00:05:16,196 Speaker 1: all of this played in my head, even my mother's 96 00:05:16,196 --> 00:05:18,596 Speaker 1: own guilt at trying to give me serial because it 97 00:05:18,596 --> 00:05:20,796 Speaker 1: was going to be faster and than me having the 98 00:05:20,916 --> 00:05:23,316 Speaker 1: reaction if I can't believe you're sending me to school 99 00:05:23,396 --> 00:05:28,356 Speaker 1: with no breakfast. I think, particularly women, we are more 100 00:05:28,396 --> 00:05:31,716 Speaker 1: guilt prone. The research shows that what happened for me 101 00:05:31,796 --> 00:05:35,716 Speaker 1: is that I started talking about guilt very casually as 102 00:05:35,756 --> 00:05:38,596 Speaker 1: I would be speaking around the country, and I just 103 00:05:38,756 --> 00:05:42,556 Speaker 1: noticed that women in particular had a very strong reaction. 104 00:05:42,596 --> 00:05:45,076 Speaker 1: It would be like a collective side if I just 105 00:05:45,156 --> 00:05:49,396 Speaker 1: said the word guilt and I began wondering if we 106 00:05:49,396 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 1: were more guilt prone, and I realized men also feel 107 00:05:52,036 --> 00:05:55,156 Speaker 1: guilt at Men feel guilty around different things, and they 108 00:05:55,196 --> 00:05:58,276 Speaker 1: process it very differently. So oftentimes, as women, when we're 109 00:05:58,316 --> 00:06:01,516 Speaker 1: talking about our guilt, men are perplexed. There's even some 110 00:06:01,556 --> 00:06:04,236 Speaker 1: research showing that women feel more guilty if we have 111 00:06:04,276 --> 00:06:07,596 Speaker 1: to work after hours. Whether we're married, or have kids 112 00:06:07,716 --> 00:06:11,076 Speaker 1: or anything else, still feel guilty like we're not supposed 113 00:06:11,076 --> 00:06:13,836 Speaker 1: to be doing that. And so when you become more 114 00:06:13,876 --> 00:06:17,276 Speaker 1: aware of your own guilt triggers, you can start to 115 00:06:17,316 --> 00:06:22,116 Speaker 1: be more intentional about really seeing those before they hijack 116 00:06:22,596 --> 00:06:26,076 Speaker 1: your decisions and your actions. And one of the simplest 117 00:06:26,076 --> 00:06:29,876 Speaker 1: things you can do is just label the emotion. Right 118 00:06:29,956 --> 00:06:33,556 Speaker 1: it comes and you go, ah, that's guilt, and it 119 00:06:33,676 --> 00:06:37,356 Speaker 1: just interrupts the thought pattern. There's guilt there it is, 120 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:41,916 Speaker 1: and you have an opportunity once you interrupted, to be 121 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:45,556 Speaker 1: intentional about what action you're going to take next. And 122 00:06:45,596 --> 00:06:47,836 Speaker 1: so I think an understanding guilt it might help us 123 00:06:47,836 --> 00:06:50,276 Speaker 1: to kind of define what it is. So give me 124 00:06:50,356 --> 00:06:54,036 Speaker 1: a definition of guilt. What is it? Guilt basically is 125 00:06:54,596 --> 00:06:59,116 Speaker 1: us saying either we've done something wrong or we feel 126 00:06:59,156 --> 00:07:01,476 Speaker 1: like we've done something wrong. Those two things are not 127 00:07:01,556 --> 00:07:04,236 Speaker 1: the same, even though they can feel the same. So 128 00:07:04,276 --> 00:07:07,756 Speaker 1: I've done something wrong. Is very clear you've done something wrong. 129 00:07:07,796 --> 00:07:09,676 Speaker 1: You probably need to atone for it, try to make 130 00:07:09,756 --> 00:07:13,276 Speaker 1: up for it, fix the problem. If you just feel 131 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:16,676 Speaker 1: like you've done something wrong, you can still behave as 132 00:07:16,716 --> 00:07:22,396 Speaker 1: though you're guilty. And so, because guilt says I owe 133 00:07:22,716 --> 00:07:25,516 Speaker 1: there's a debt that I owe right, we will go 134 00:07:25,596 --> 00:07:29,356 Speaker 1: about trying to pay for whatever it is we feel 135 00:07:29,396 --> 00:07:34,436 Speaker 1: we've done wrong. And so this false sense of guilt 136 00:07:34,516 --> 00:07:37,956 Speaker 1: is very different from authentic guilt, and yet we can 137 00:07:37,996 --> 00:07:41,836 Speaker 1: react in very much the same way. So the single 138 00:07:41,956 --> 00:07:44,996 Speaker 1: parent who feels guilty that their child doesn't have the 139 00:07:44,996 --> 00:07:50,436 Speaker 1: other parent every day, who overcompensates, who knows they're spoiling them, 140 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:53,716 Speaker 1: who knows they're not disciplining them about something, in the 141 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:57,796 Speaker 1: same way, but they feel they owe right. Guilt is 142 00:07:57,836 --> 00:07:59,996 Speaker 1: a debt that can try to make up for the 143 00:08:00,036 --> 00:08:04,316 Speaker 1: fact that things aren't perfect. So I'm going to overdo it. 144 00:08:04,356 --> 00:08:06,516 Speaker 1: And so we can see how the false guilt can 145 00:08:06,596 --> 00:08:10,676 Speaker 1: cause us to make decisions that are productive. And this 146 00:08:10,716 --> 00:08:13,516 Speaker 1: idea of false gill is really powerful, right, because it 147 00:08:13,596 --> 00:08:17,036 Speaker 1: kind of explains why we're going through so much guilt nowadays. 148 00:08:17,116 --> 00:08:19,356 Speaker 1: Right you know, you talked about going to give talks 149 00:08:19,356 --> 00:08:21,156 Speaker 1: to so many people and you ask about guilt, and 150 00:08:21,196 --> 00:08:23,876 Speaker 1: you have a whole audience of thousands of people nodding like, yep, 151 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:26,196 Speaker 1: I have guilt too, And it doesn't feel like we're 152 00:08:26,196 --> 00:08:29,396 Speaker 1: all doing actual harmful things to other people, right, you know, 153 00:08:29,436 --> 00:08:31,876 Speaker 1: And so talk about the prevalence of this false guilt. 154 00:08:31,916 --> 00:08:34,956 Speaker 1: It feels like it's kind of everywhere right now. So 155 00:08:35,076 --> 00:08:40,476 Speaker 1: false guilt can occur from successes, false gilt can occur 156 00:08:41,156 --> 00:08:43,916 Speaker 1: from guilt trippers in our lives. Right. So people will 157 00:08:43,996 --> 00:08:48,356 Speaker 1: use guilt to manipulate you. But you can't be manipulated 158 00:08:48,516 --> 00:08:52,196 Speaker 1: unless in some way you might agree or you might 159 00:08:52,236 --> 00:08:55,276 Speaker 1: not have come to terms with your own values of 160 00:08:55,316 --> 00:08:59,436 Speaker 1: what really matters. Now you are kind of participating in 161 00:08:59,476 --> 00:09:01,916 Speaker 1: that and allowing them to get you to do things 162 00:09:01,916 --> 00:09:05,916 Speaker 1: you wouldn't normally do because you're feeling guilty. So it 163 00:09:05,996 --> 00:09:08,316 Speaker 1: shows up in a lot of different ways. And what 164 00:09:08,436 --> 00:09:12,196 Speaker 1: I found is that oftentimes we don't even realize that 165 00:09:12,276 --> 00:09:15,236 Speaker 1: it's guilt, even if it's just that feeling I'm not 166 00:09:15,276 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 1: doing enough, I'm not doing enough oftentimes that's a sense 167 00:09:18,636 --> 00:09:21,796 Speaker 1: of guilt somehow I'm not working hard enough for I've 168 00:09:21,796 --> 00:09:24,316 Speaker 1: been given more than I ought to be entitled to. 169 00:09:24,596 --> 00:09:28,476 Speaker 1: And so that sense of guilt can really cause us 170 00:09:28,636 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: to take actions or not to take actions that if 171 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:35,916 Speaker 1: we didn't feel guilty, perhaps we'd make some different choices. 172 00:09:36,556 --> 00:09:38,956 Speaker 1: And so you've argued that even this false guilt might 173 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:40,756 Speaker 1: be there to teach us something that is kind of 174 00:09:40,796 --> 00:09:45,596 Speaker 1: giving us an important message. What do you mean by this, Well, 175 00:09:45,716 --> 00:09:49,556 Speaker 1: I think it's really important for us when we are 176 00:09:49,636 --> 00:09:52,996 Speaker 1: feeling guilty and we label that guilt, Ah, that's guilt, 177 00:09:53,236 --> 00:09:55,716 Speaker 1: that we kind of peel back the layers and we 178 00:09:55,756 --> 00:09:58,676 Speaker 1: ask ourselves, did I actually do something wrong? Again? Guilt 179 00:09:58,756 --> 00:10:01,396 Speaker 1: is indicated you've done something wrong or you feel like 180 00:10:01,436 --> 00:10:04,876 Speaker 1: you have. And oftentimes if we get really honest with ourselves, 181 00:10:04,956 --> 00:10:08,316 Speaker 1: we discover now I have it. Actually, I've found for 182 00:10:08,356 --> 00:10:12,116 Speaker 1: a lot of people that resetting their expectations is a 183 00:10:12,116 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 1: big part of this process. So oftentimes expectations are put 184 00:10:16,756 --> 00:10:19,556 Speaker 1: upon you, right, so people tell you what they're expecting, 185 00:10:19,556 --> 00:10:22,476 Speaker 1: and if you don't have a strong sense of your 186 00:10:22,516 --> 00:10:27,956 Speaker 1: own expectations of yourself, others expectations will then guide what 187 00:10:28,036 --> 00:10:30,276 Speaker 1: you are saying is right or wrong, and so some 188 00:10:30,316 --> 00:10:34,076 Speaker 1: of this requires getting quiet, asking yourself some very basic 189 00:10:34,196 --> 00:10:37,796 Speaker 1: but profound questions, Why am I doing what I'm doing? 190 00:10:37,996 --> 00:10:40,996 Speaker 1: Am I actually doing something wrong? Does this line up 191 00:10:41,036 --> 00:10:44,956 Speaker 1: with my values? When you do that work, there's a 192 00:10:45,036 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 1: freedom that begins to come. Feeling guilty doesn't just feel crappy. 193 00:10:50,036 --> 00:10:51,756 Speaker 1: You can also lead us to get stuck in the 194 00:10:51,796 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 1: past and to make bad decisions in the future. We 195 00:10:55,316 --> 00:10:58,676 Speaker 1: wind up caught and that happiness sapping cycle of rumination. 196 00:10:59,236 --> 00:11:01,956 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll learn more ways to identify when 197 00:11:01,956 --> 00:11:04,956 Speaker 1: our guilt is faults and some strategies to feel better 198 00:11:05,116 --> 00:11:07,756 Speaker 1: when it is. We'll also hear how we can handle 199 00:11:07,796 --> 00:11:10,876 Speaker 1: guilt in cases in which we did actually do something wrong. 200 00:11:11,676 --> 00:11:21,196 Speaker 1: The happiness lab will be right back. Some days I 201 00:11:21,196 --> 00:11:22,796 Speaker 1: feel like I can't get out from the way of 202 00:11:22,876 --> 00:11:25,716 Speaker 1: my own guilt. I get remorseful about the things I've 203 00:11:25,756 --> 00:11:28,636 Speaker 1: done and all the things I didn't do. I feel 204 00:11:28,636 --> 00:11:31,396 Speaker 1: guilty for letting myself down and for not doing the 205 00:11:31,436 --> 00:11:34,316 Speaker 1: best for others. And then I even start to feel 206 00:11:34,316 --> 00:11:37,756 Speaker 1: guilty about feeling guilty all the time. For me, this 207 00:11:37,876 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 1: guilt upon guilt upon guilt cycle can feel really overwhelming. 208 00:11:42,276 --> 00:11:44,436 Speaker 1: So I was surprised to hear from author and guilt 209 00:11:44,436 --> 00:11:48,036 Speaker 1: expert Valerie Britain that being a guilt prone person may 210 00:11:48,076 --> 00:11:51,276 Speaker 1: have some benefits. Look, there's actually an upside to guilt 211 00:11:51,636 --> 00:11:53,836 Speaker 1: that I was pretty excited about. Made me feel better 212 00:11:53,836 --> 00:11:57,796 Speaker 1: about it all. So when you are a person who 213 00:11:57,956 --> 00:12:00,716 Speaker 1: number one cares about what other people think, right, you 214 00:12:00,716 --> 00:12:03,036 Speaker 1: can overdo that. But it's actually a very good thing 215 00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:06,036 Speaker 1: to care about other people and your impact on other people. 216 00:12:06,596 --> 00:12:09,676 Speaker 1: You're going to be more guilt prone in those who 217 00:12:10,156 --> 00:12:14,556 Speaker 1: have the trait of conscientiousness, which is a very strong 218 00:12:14,716 --> 00:12:18,196 Speaker 1: feeling about right and wrong and how you ought to 219 00:12:18,236 --> 00:12:21,236 Speaker 1: do things. Those people tend towards guilt, as people also 220 00:12:21,316 --> 00:12:26,036 Speaker 1: tend towards being better managers, better t in relationship with 221 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:31,396 Speaker 1: and so it's important for us to not say, you know, 222 00:12:31,516 --> 00:12:35,356 Speaker 1: guilt is bad. Guilt is actually a guide. It's a 223 00:12:35,396 --> 00:12:39,316 Speaker 1: really important guide to help you do what's right, to 224 00:12:39,356 --> 00:12:42,036 Speaker 1: help you avoid what is wrong. So when guilt comes up, 225 00:12:42,076 --> 00:12:45,236 Speaker 1: it's not like I shouldn't feel guilt, because again, authentic 226 00:12:45,276 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 1: guilt is actually a guide for you in terms of 227 00:12:48,156 --> 00:12:50,076 Speaker 1: doing what's right and wrong. And then one of the 228 00:12:50,076 --> 00:12:52,476 Speaker 1: big benefits. It seems like we can get from understanding 229 00:12:52,476 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 1: our guilt better is that when we experienced guilt, it 230 00:12:54,796 --> 00:12:57,316 Speaker 1: can tell us when our actions are really misaligned with 231 00:12:57,316 --> 00:13:00,676 Speaker 1: our values and our expectations. You experience this a little bit, 232 00:13:00,716 --> 00:13:03,276 Speaker 1: I think in the scenario you talked about with Breakfast, 233 00:13:03,516 --> 00:13:05,756 Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about why that guilt was 234 00:13:05,796 --> 00:13:09,516 Speaker 1: a misalignment with maybe expectations and values that weren't really 235 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:12,036 Speaker 1: good for you at the time. You know, I mentioned 236 00:13:12,076 --> 00:13:14,676 Speaker 1: the guilt with that little incident with my son, that 237 00:13:14,716 --> 00:13:17,756 Speaker 1: I had a lot of guilt that came up around motherhood. 238 00:13:18,476 --> 00:13:21,876 Speaker 1: I was over forty before I became a mom. I 239 00:13:21,996 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 1: had this vision at twenty that I wanted to have 240 00:13:25,476 --> 00:13:28,756 Speaker 1: my own business. I wanted to write books, and that 241 00:13:28,756 --> 00:13:32,996 Speaker 1: that would give me the flexibility and freedom to have 242 00:13:33,076 --> 00:13:35,836 Speaker 1: a great career and also have a family. I found 243 00:13:35,836 --> 00:13:41,276 Speaker 1: myself finally reaching my vision, having the career, being an author, 244 00:13:42,076 --> 00:13:46,756 Speaker 1: having a family, and yet still feeling oftentimes guilty. So 245 00:13:46,796 --> 00:13:49,116 Speaker 1: even when I would be out speaking, I would feel 246 00:13:49,116 --> 00:13:51,036 Speaker 1: guilty for being away from home, even if it was 247 00:13:51,076 --> 00:13:53,716 Speaker 1: just overnight. So one of the things I did, and 248 00:13:53,756 --> 00:13:56,556 Speaker 1: I did it through journaling, was I started asking myself 249 00:13:56,556 --> 00:14:00,076 Speaker 1: what are you feeling guilty about? Exactly? Okay, what are 250 00:14:00,116 --> 00:14:03,396 Speaker 1: your values around this? And what I discovered is I 251 00:14:03,556 --> 00:14:07,796 Speaker 1: had these very old fashioned thoughts and voices that were 252 00:14:07,836 --> 00:14:10,516 Speaker 1: playing in my head about what it meant to be 253 00:14:10,556 --> 00:14:12,756 Speaker 1: a mother, what it meant to have a career, what 254 00:14:12,876 --> 00:14:14,796 Speaker 1: it meant to be a woman. And I had to 255 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:17,796 Speaker 1: get really clear, is this what I believe that I 256 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:20,116 Speaker 1: should be home with my son. My husband was the 257 00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:22,716 Speaker 1: one that actually reminded me of my own vision that 258 00:14:22,716 --> 00:14:25,916 Speaker 1: that was never my vision. My vision was always having 259 00:14:26,036 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 1: a business and having a family so that I could 260 00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:32,476 Speaker 1: have flexibility. So when I began to own that and 261 00:14:32,556 --> 00:14:34,956 Speaker 1: really peeling back the layers meant saying, so what harm 262 00:14:34,996 --> 00:14:38,076 Speaker 1: do you think you're doing to your son or to 263 00:14:38,156 --> 00:14:41,316 Speaker 1: your family? And I was like, actually, when I'm gone, 264 00:14:41,916 --> 00:14:44,196 Speaker 1: especially when my mother decides she's going to come over 265 00:14:44,236 --> 00:14:46,956 Speaker 1: and help, and my son isn't even missing me. He's like, oh, 266 00:14:46,996 --> 00:14:50,756 Speaker 1: Grandmammy's here, he's excited. I realized when I really peeled 267 00:14:50,756 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: back the layers that the things I was feeling guilty 268 00:14:53,876 --> 00:14:58,916 Speaker 1: about were basically non existent. And so that helped me 269 00:14:59,596 --> 00:15:04,756 Speaker 1: clarify my values around entrepreneurship, around living a life of 270 00:15:04,836 --> 00:15:09,876 Speaker 1: purpose around contributing to my family in a very significant 271 00:15:09,916 --> 00:15:16,036 Speaker 1: way and showing our children what's possible. So I had 272 00:15:16,076 --> 00:15:20,196 Speaker 1: to slow down and really push back. My mother was 273 00:15:20,236 --> 00:15:22,316 Speaker 1: at home when I was a kid, and then when 274 00:15:22,356 --> 00:15:24,796 Speaker 1: I went off to school, she started working. She never 275 00:15:25,196 --> 00:15:28,716 Speaker 1: suggested that I needed to follow her path. And yet 276 00:15:28,756 --> 00:15:31,556 Speaker 1: when I got really honest with myself, I realized I 277 00:15:31,636 --> 00:15:33,556 Speaker 1: was looking around me. I was in a neighborhood with 278 00:15:33,596 --> 00:15:36,196 Speaker 1: a lot of stay at home moms. People would make comments, 279 00:15:36,556 --> 00:15:39,476 Speaker 1: oh gosh, you're gone so much, and I actually wasn't 280 00:15:39,476 --> 00:15:42,716 Speaker 1: gone that much, but that was their perception. And if 281 00:15:42,716 --> 00:15:45,876 Speaker 1: you're going to take back your joy from guilt, at 282 00:15:45,916 --> 00:15:47,596 Speaker 1: some point you really do have to say, is this 283 00:15:47,636 --> 00:15:50,596 Speaker 1: what I believe too? Or do I have a different 284 00:15:50,596 --> 00:15:53,196 Speaker 1: set of values for my own family. Another thing you've 285 00:15:53,276 --> 00:15:55,476 Speaker 1: argued we need to look into more deeply, and this 286 00:15:55,596 --> 00:15:57,716 Speaker 1: was really helpful for me reading the book, was we 287 00:15:57,756 --> 00:16:01,196 Speaker 1: sometimes have expectations that aren't necessarily helping us. One of 288 00:16:01,196 --> 00:16:03,076 Speaker 1: my favorite ideas that you talk about in the book 289 00:16:03,076 --> 00:16:06,516 Speaker 1: are cases where we have what you might call vague expectations. 290 00:16:06,596 --> 00:16:08,956 Speaker 1: You know, so talk about vague expectations. This is something 291 00:16:08,956 --> 00:16:11,036 Speaker 1: that plagues me a lot, I think. So the vague 292 00:16:11,076 --> 00:16:14,196 Speaker 1: expectations are, you know, I'm going to lose weight, I'm 293 00:16:14,236 --> 00:16:18,116 Speaker 1: going to eat better, work more, or whatever it happens 294 00:16:18,156 --> 00:16:21,996 Speaker 1: to be. It's not defined, and so no matter what 295 00:16:22,076 --> 00:16:26,316 Speaker 1: we do, there's a possibility that we haven't quite met 296 00:16:26,356 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: the expectation because we never defined it. So I'm going 297 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:31,996 Speaker 1: to work out more, Well, maybe you did. Maybe last 298 00:16:32,036 --> 00:16:34,036 Speaker 1: week you didn't work out at all, and this week 299 00:16:34,036 --> 00:16:36,556 Speaker 1: you worked out twice, but you feel guilty because you 300 00:16:36,596 --> 00:16:40,156 Speaker 1: still haven't done enough because you never clearly defined what 301 00:16:40,436 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 1: enough is. And so when you find yourself in the 302 00:16:43,596 --> 00:16:46,036 Speaker 1: hole I'm not done enough or I need to do more, 303 00:16:47,236 --> 00:16:50,596 Speaker 1: ask well, how much would be enough? How much is more? 304 00:16:51,276 --> 00:16:54,436 Speaker 1: Because oftentimes we've never clarified that and the guilt that 305 00:16:54,556 --> 00:16:57,436 Speaker 1: we feel, you can nip it in the bud by 306 00:16:57,476 --> 00:17:00,356 Speaker 1: defining what that means. So if working out twice this 307 00:17:00,396 --> 00:17:02,716 Speaker 1: week is enough, great, you don't need to feel guilty. 308 00:17:03,836 --> 00:17:05,756 Speaker 1: And another thing I think that crops up with these 309 00:17:05,836 --> 00:17:08,036 Speaker 1: vague expectations is that we tend to have them in 310 00:17:08,116 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: every domain. Right. You know, we feel like I should 311 00:17:10,596 --> 00:17:12,716 Speaker 1: do more as a parent, I should do more at work, 312 00:17:12,796 --> 00:17:14,716 Speaker 1: I should do more in terms of my personal life 313 00:17:14,716 --> 00:17:17,596 Speaker 1: and my health. But then when you add these things up, 314 00:17:17,716 --> 00:17:21,196 Speaker 1: you simply can't do more in all of these different domains, right, 315 00:17:21,196 --> 00:17:22,716 Speaker 1: I mean, is this something you see coming up with 316 00:17:22,756 --> 00:17:27,596 Speaker 1: your clients too. Yeah, we are living in a society 317 00:17:27,676 --> 00:17:31,076 Speaker 1: now where we're constantly looking at what we think everyone 318 00:17:31,116 --> 00:17:33,916 Speaker 1: else is doing right, But no matter what we're doing, 319 00:17:34,396 --> 00:17:40,156 Speaker 1: the upward social comparisons really can not only dampen our 320 00:17:40,236 --> 00:17:45,956 Speaker 1: joy but bring more guilt. And so being very intentional 321 00:17:46,156 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 1: about setting those expectations in a reasonable way and noticing 322 00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:58,196 Speaker 1: when they're harmful. When you have unrealistic expectations that cannot 323 00:17:58,196 --> 00:18:00,836 Speaker 1: be met, or maybe they can't be met in this season, 324 00:18:01,676 --> 00:18:06,076 Speaker 1: give yourself permission to change that expectation. You know, when 325 00:18:06,076 --> 00:18:09,036 Speaker 1: I married my husband and suddenly was a bonus mom 326 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,836 Speaker 1: to two girls. Leading up to that time, in the 327 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:14,836 Speaker 1: prior five years, I had written a book a year. 328 00:18:15,556 --> 00:18:18,676 Speaker 1: In those previous five years, I had gone through divorce, 329 00:18:19,396 --> 00:18:22,636 Speaker 1: I was single, I didn't have anyone else to take 330 00:18:22,676 --> 00:18:25,276 Speaker 1: care of. I didn't even have a dog anymore. It's 331 00:18:25,356 --> 00:18:30,196 Speaker 1: just like, so oftentimes I was writing late. I might 332 00:18:30,276 --> 00:18:34,476 Speaker 1: write on weekends because I'm a recovering procrastinator. So I'm 333 00:18:34,516 --> 00:18:38,116 Speaker 1: pushing to those French times, right. And we got married, 334 00:18:38,156 --> 00:18:41,036 Speaker 1: and so the first book was due and I found 335 00:18:41,076 --> 00:18:43,036 Speaker 1: it really hard to write it. I got it written, 336 00:18:43,116 --> 00:18:44,836 Speaker 1: but it was hard. And then the next year my 337 00:18:44,876 --> 00:18:48,356 Speaker 1: son came along and I couldn't do it, and I 338 00:18:48,436 --> 00:18:50,716 Speaker 1: just had to call the publisher and say, I cannot 339 00:18:51,356 --> 00:18:53,276 Speaker 1: get this to you. I'm going to need to take 340 00:18:53,316 --> 00:18:56,836 Speaker 1: a year off. I just like I've been waiting my 341 00:18:56,836 --> 00:18:59,996 Speaker 1: whole life that this might happen, right, that I might 342 00:19:00,156 --> 00:19:02,916 Speaker 1: get to have a child, And here I am, I 343 00:19:02,956 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 1: can't do it. I had to change the expectation in 344 00:19:06,276 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 1: that season. Great, I wrote a book a year, but 345 00:19:08,796 --> 00:19:11,636 Speaker 1: I can't do that anymore. And that's really this idea 346 00:19:11,636 --> 00:19:14,596 Speaker 1: that you talk about of outdated expectations, right. You know, 347 00:19:14,636 --> 00:19:18,276 Speaker 1: those might have been expectations that work before, maybe pre pandemic, 348 00:19:18,316 --> 00:19:20,436 Speaker 1: they worked maybe at a different time of your life. 349 00:19:20,676 --> 00:19:23,036 Speaker 1: But it can be really hard to be compassionate enough 350 00:19:23,076 --> 00:19:27,476 Speaker 1: with yourself to update these expectations. It can. We're also 351 00:19:27,516 --> 00:19:32,276 Speaker 1: good at beating ourselves up. Self compassion is absolutely critical. 352 00:19:32,916 --> 00:19:36,276 Speaker 1: Outdated expectations often lead us to I did it before, 353 00:19:36,316 --> 00:19:39,476 Speaker 1: I did it before, but before you didn't have these 354 00:19:39,516 --> 00:19:44,556 Speaker 1: other responsibilities or these other circumstances that are very real. 355 00:19:45,596 --> 00:19:48,156 Speaker 1: How do you want to show up now? What's reasonable 356 00:19:48,236 --> 00:19:52,796 Speaker 1: now and what's important now? That's the other very critical question, 357 00:19:53,156 --> 00:19:55,996 Speaker 1: And so I had to decide in those early years. 358 00:19:56,116 --> 00:19:58,396 Speaker 1: My son is still a baby. I don't want to 359 00:19:58,396 --> 00:20:01,676 Speaker 1: miss this time because I'm stressed out about a deadline. 360 00:20:02,236 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 1: It'll be there, I'll still right. But right now my 361 00:20:06,036 --> 00:20:09,756 Speaker 1: focus is really here. And so we have to give 362 00:20:09,796 --> 00:20:14,156 Speaker 1: ourselves permission. We have to show ourselves some grace. So 363 00:20:14,276 --> 00:20:16,756 Speaker 1: go easy on yourself. How do we deal with it 364 00:20:16,796 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 1: when the guilt is real? We've forgotten someone's birthday, you know, 365 00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:23,716 Speaker 1: we've said something inappropriate to our spouse or something like that, 366 00:20:23,876 --> 00:20:26,796 Speaker 1: because sometimes, you know, we really have messed something up. 367 00:20:27,156 --> 00:20:29,916 Speaker 1: That's a really great question, because sometimes we really have 368 00:20:30,036 --> 00:20:32,556 Speaker 1: done something wrong right, and we need to deal with it. 369 00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:35,516 Speaker 1: And that takes some courage because it depends on what 370 00:20:35,596 --> 00:20:38,756 Speaker 1: you say to yourself about being guilty of something, and 371 00:20:38,836 --> 00:20:41,196 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, it's a sense of denial, 372 00:20:41,236 --> 00:20:47,316 Speaker 1: which is the worst approach. So being able to one except, yeah, 373 00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:50,676 Speaker 1: I did something wrong and I'm going to take responsibility 374 00:20:50,716 --> 00:20:53,516 Speaker 1: for it. So I give six a's in the book 375 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:57,916 Speaker 1: around when you really are guilty. So one is just admitted, right, 376 00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,396 Speaker 1: you're just acknowledging, Hey, I did something wrong, I caused 377 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:03,236 Speaker 1: harm in some way. The second is just to assess it. 378 00:21:03,516 --> 00:21:06,196 Speaker 1: You know, what is the harm that I caused? And 379 00:21:06,316 --> 00:21:09,676 Speaker 1: this can be hard to look at, but be willing, kescourage, 380 00:21:09,716 --> 00:21:14,476 Speaker 1: be willing, and then apologize and it's that real apology, 381 00:21:14,676 --> 00:21:16,916 Speaker 1: right Who do you owe an apology too? It might 382 00:21:16,956 --> 00:21:21,116 Speaker 1: be more than one person, And what specifically would a 383 00:21:21,196 --> 00:21:25,396 Speaker 1: sincere apology sound like? Not only stating what's wrong, but 384 00:21:25,516 --> 00:21:29,836 Speaker 1: acknowledging the impact on that person and apologizing for your 385 00:21:29,876 --> 00:21:33,276 Speaker 1: contribution whatever that happened to be. And then whenever you 386 00:21:33,356 --> 00:21:36,756 Speaker 1: can atoning for it, how can I make amends? Some 387 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:40,316 Speaker 1: things you can't undo, but you can certainly at least 388 00:21:40,396 --> 00:21:44,436 Speaker 1: try not to make the situation worse. And if there's 389 00:21:44,436 --> 00:21:46,956 Speaker 1: a consequence of a way that you could pay back 390 00:21:46,956 --> 00:21:49,436 Speaker 1: in any way, Again, it just depends on the circumstance, 391 00:21:49,916 --> 00:21:52,356 Speaker 1: do what you can. And that's where this fifth one 392 00:21:52,356 --> 00:21:55,156 Speaker 1: comes in, which is just a just your behavior. That's 393 00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:57,436 Speaker 1: a big one. It's not okay to apologize and just 394 00:21:57,516 --> 00:22:02,076 Speaker 1: keep doing the same thing, right, and then lastly accept forgiveness. 395 00:22:02,276 --> 00:22:05,196 Speaker 1: And a lot of times we withhold the forgiveness from 396 00:22:05,316 --> 00:22:08,196 Speaker 1: ourselves and so being able to accept it from the 397 00:22:08,236 --> 00:22:10,916 Speaker 1: other person to be thankful if they're willing to give it. 398 00:22:11,476 --> 00:22:14,436 Speaker 1: Sometimes they're not going to give it. Sometimes there's not 399 00:22:14,436 --> 00:22:17,036 Speaker 1: an opportunity. I mean, it might be someone who's moved on, 400 00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:20,916 Speaker 1: who's passed away, and that's when you really do have 401 00:22:20,956 --> 00:22:23,916 Speaker 1: to do the work of being able to forgive yourself 402 00:22:24,996 --> 00:22:28,516 Speaker 1: for your own humanity, for things she can't change, so 403 00:22:28,556 --> 00:22:31,756 Speaker 1: that she can eventually just move forward. Feeling guilty can 404 00:22:31,756 --> 00:22:34,356 Speaker 1: be an honest signal that we've screwed something up and 405 00:22:34,436 --> 00:22:36,236 Speaker 1: that we need to take steps to make it right. 406 00:22:37,036 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 1: But once we've done that, we can forgive ourselves and 407 00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:43,756 Speaker 1: let that guilt go. Case closed. But sometimes guilt isn't 408 00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:47,996 Speaker 1: really about having done something wrong. It's based on outdated, vague, 409 00:22:48,076 --> 00:22:51,396 Speaker 1: or even unreasonable expectations about the kind of person we're 410 00:22:51,436 --> 00:22:54,516 Speaker 1: supposed to be. We'll talk about some concrete strategies we 411 00:22:54,556 --> 00:22:57,676 Speaker 1: can use to reset these not so good expectations and 412 00:22:57,756 --> 00:23:00,236 Speaker 1: lose the unhelpful remorse that goes with them. When the 413 00:23:00,236 --> 00:23:12,556 Speaker 1: happiness lab returns in a moment life coaching author Valerie 414 00:23:12,596 --> 00:23:15,156 Speaker 1: Burton argues that we can learn something from our feelings 415 00:23:15,156 --> 00:23:18,276 Speaker 1: of guilt, but only once we've determined whether our guilty 416 00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:21,996 Speaker 1: feelings are actually warranted in the first place. One of 417 00:23:22,036 --> 00:23:26,436 Speaker 1: the big opportunities that happened for me was recognizing that 418 00:23:27,236 --> 00:23:31,316 Speaker 1: my guilt was actually it was fear happiness as a risk, 419 00:23:31,996 --> 00:23:37,436 Speaker 1: and guilt is safe. I realized that I never allowed 420 00:23:37,436 --> 00:23:41,996 Speaker 1: myself to fully be happy. Guilt was the thing that 421 00:23:42,156 --> 00:23:45,556 Speaker 1: dampened my happiness, and it was a tool I was 422 00:23:45,636 --> 00:23:48,596 Speaker 1: using out of fear that my happiness wouldn't stay around, 423 00:23:48,636 --> 00:23:50,636 Speaker 1: that something was going to come up that wasn't going 424 00:23:50,676 --> 00:23:53,076 Speaker 1: to go my way. And so if I get too happy, 425 00:23:53,436 --> 00:23:55,836 Speaker 1: that's really risky. But if I put a little guilt 426 00:23:55,876 --> 00:23:58,276 Speaker 1: in there, things aren't. I mean, they could be great, 427 00:23:58,276 --> 00:24:01,556 Speaker 1: but they're not that great. I felt safe that way. 428 00:24:02,036 --> 00:24:05,676 Speaker 1: That for me was a real eye opener. I had 429 00:24:05,836 --> 00:24:10,516 Speaker 1: never thought of guilt as something that was safe for me, 430 00:24:10,636 --> 00:24:14,396 Speaker 1: that I was choosing when I didn't have to. And 431 00:24:14,436 --> 00:24:17,476 Speaker 1: so the first step of embracing this opportunity really is 432 00:24:17,596 --> 00:24:21,956 Speaker 1: to notice and allow that you're feeling guilt. Talk about 433 00:24:21,956 --> 00:24:24,116 Speaker 1: the science of how it can be powerful to label 434 00:24:24,156 --> 00:24:29,196 Speaker 1: our emotions. Ah, well, there's something that happens when we 435 00:24:29,276 --> 00:24:31,796 Speaker 1: have an emotion. This happens even when the emotion is 436 00:24:31,996 --> 00:24:35,916 Speaker 1: quote unquote positive emotion. Right. One, It's our thoughts that 437 00:24:36,036 --> 00:24:40,716 Speaker 1: lead to our emotions, and so those thoughts of guilt, 438 00:24:41,396 --> 00:24:43,876 Speaker 1: I've done something wrong, I am wrong, whatever the case 439 00:24:43,956 --> 00:24:46,836 Speaker 1: might be. Or really what leads to the feeling the 440 00:24:46,876 --> 00:24:51,116 Speaker 1: emotion of guilt. It relates back to cognitive behavioral therapy. 441 00:24:51,196 --> 00:24:53,916 Speaker 1: Right what are you thinking and what does that lead 442 00:24:53,956 --> 00:24:57,236 Speaker 1: to in terms of your actions and your emotions. The 443 00:24:57,276 --> 00:25:02,316 Speaker 1: real key is to practice thought awareness, to practice noticing 444 00:25:02,756 --> 00:25:05,476 Speaker 1: what you're saying to yourself that's leading to the guilt 445 00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:09,956 Speaker 1: and having the discipline to discern whether it's valid or not. 446 00:25:10,676 --> 00:25:13,916 Speaker 1: Have I actually done something wrong or am I just 447 00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:17,156 Speaker 1: feeling that I've done something wrong? If it's just a feeling, 448 00:25:17,196 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 1: how might I change the thought so that it leads 449 00:25:21,196 --> 00:25:23,556 Speaker 1: to a new feeling? You know? I gave an example 450 00:25:23,596 --> 00:25:25,676 Speaker 1: in the book of a woman who had had a 451 00:25:25,756 --> 00:25:28,756 Speaker 1: child very young. She'd gotten pregnant in her senior year 452 00:25:28,836 --> 00:25:31,716 Speaker 1: of high school, which she number one felt guilty about, 453 00:25:32,036 --> 00:25:35,756 Speaker 1: but even more she felt guilty because her daughter didn't 454 00:25:35,796 --> 00:25:39,116 Speaker 1: have a father. Later she married and she had a 455 00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:43,276 Speaker 1: second child. Wonderful husband, great dad to both girls. But 456 00:25:43,396 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 1: the continual guilt was the guilt that the younger child 457 00:25:47,516 --> 00:25:51,116 Speaker 1: had a different and more stable experience than the older child. 458 00:25:52,316 --> 00:25:55,116 Speaker 1: And so it was very interesting as I did that 459 00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:59,636 Speaker 1: particular interview of the things that this mom had never 460 00:25:59,716 --> 00:26:04,356 Speaker 1: even asked herself or really thought about just her hardness. 461 00:26:04,356 --> 00:26:07,236 Speaker 1: She was very hard on the older one of You've 462 00:26:07,276 --> 00:26:08,916 Speaker 1: got to do this, and then this, and then this, 463 00:26:09,116 --> 00:26:11,556 Speaker 1: and so anything that went wrong, even if it wasn't 464 00:26:11,596 --> 00:26:14,876 Speaker 1: anything really wrong, she blamed it on well, if I 465 00:26:14,916 --> 00:26:17,916 Speaker 1: had not had my child so young, if she had 466 00:26:17,956 --> 00:26:21,156 Speaker 1: had this better experience in her early years, if I 467 00:26:21,156 --> 00:26:22,836 Speaker 1: had not been trying to go to school and work 468 00:26:22,876 --> 00:26:25,876 Speaker 1: at the same time. And what we realize is she's 469 00:26:25,956 --> 00:26:28,716 Speaker 1: saying to herself that, Okay, my daughter got to see 470 00:26:28,796 --> 00:26:32,556 Speaker 1: because because of all of these things. We start talking 471 00:26:32,556 --> 00:26:35,276 Speaker 1: it through, Well, what about her friends that didn't have 472 00:26:35,316 --> 00:26:38,476 Speaker 1: that experience, are they all doing perfectly? Well? Well, no, 473 00:26:38,636 --> 00:26:42,196 Speaker 1: actually she's doing better than there. So then what really 474 00:26:42,236 --> 00:26:44,876 Speaker 1: are you saying to yourself? A lot of times we 475 00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:49,716 Speaker 1: don't really question our thoughts and how our thoughts are 476 00:26:49,796 --> 00:26:51,836 Speaker 1: leading us to feel things that may or may not 477 00:26:51,956 --> 00:26:54,716 Speaker 1: actually be rooted in the truth. One method that you've 478 00:26:54,756 --> 00:26:56,716 Speaker 1: given folks to kind of think about their thoughts better 479 00:26:56,836 --> 00:26:59,676 Speaker 1: is this peel method. What is the peel method? Yes, 480 00:26:59,796 --> 00:27:02,436 Speaker 1: so peel is just an acronym and it's really simple, 481 00:27:02,556 --> 00:27:05,676 Speaker 1: and it's really about you being able to peel back 482 00:27:05,716 --> 00:27:09,836 Speaker 1: the layers to see is this authentic guilt or false guilt? 483 00:27:10,316 --> 00:27:14,436 Speaker 1: So the first P and peel is simply PenPoint your 484 00:27:14,436 --> 00:27:17,156 Speaker 1: guilt trigger. What is it that's really triggering you're guilt? 485 00:27:17,196 --> 00:27:18,996 Speaker 1: And for a lot of people, they know what that 486 00:27:19,036 --> 00:27:22,116 Speaker 1: guilt trigger is. Right, for me, it's often been something 487 00:27:22,116 --> 00:27:24,956 Speaker 1: with my son. Whatever, you it may be something else. 488 00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:28,916 Speaker 1: The E the first EAT is examined the thought, so 489 00:27:29,076 --> 00:27:33,236 Speaker 1: what am I saying to myself about this guilt trigger? 490 00:27:33,476 --> 00:27:35,396 Speaker 1: What am I saying that's causing me to feel I've 491 00:27:35,476 --> 00:27:40,196 Speaker 1: done something wrong? The second eas exchanged the life for 492 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:44,276 Speaker 1: the truth. So each time you notice that there's an 493 00:27:44,276 --> 00:27:48,476 Speaker 1: inaccurate thought, you're asking what would be a more accurate 494 00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:51,836 Speaker 1: thought about the situation. So in the example of the 495 00:27:51,876 --> 00:27:54,676 Speaker 1: woman who's saying, and my daughter doesn't have straight a's 496 00:27:54,796 --> 00:27:57,436 Speaker 1: because I had her young and blah blah, blah blah blah. 497 00:27:57,956 --> 00:28:01,476 Speaker 1: A more accurate thought is, you know, she just has 498 00:28:01,556 --> 00:28:04,396 Speaker 1: a hard time in that subject. We need to get 499 00:28:04,396 --> 00:28:07,396 Speaker 1: her some help. I don't have to give this whole 500 00:28:07,476 --> 00:28:10,796 Speaker 1: explanation that may or may not have anything to do 501 00:28:11,196 --> 00:28:13,756 Speaker 1: with the real reason why she doesn't have a higher 502 00:28:13,756 --> 00:28:17,476 Speaker 1: grade in this class. And then the alice list your evidence. 503 00:28:17,676 --> 00:28:21,836 Speaker 1: What's the evidence that supports the truthful thought about this situation. 504 00:28:22,476 --> 00:28:25,156 Speaker 1: So as I just gave that example, what is my 505 00:28:25,236 --> 00:28:28,196 Speaker 1: evidence that it's not about the past? Well, the evidence 506 00:28:28,436 --> 00:28:30,196 Speaker 1: is that a lot of kids are having a hard 507 00:28:30,196 --> 00:28:33,836 Speaker 1: time in this class, and my daughter isn't expressing anything 508 00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,036 Speaker 1: that tells me that she's struggling with these things I'm 509 00:28:36,076 --> 00:28:39,756 Speaker 1: talking about. So you actually start listing the evidence. It's 510 00:28:39,836 --> 00:28:42,876 Speaker 1: not just telling yourself that there's a different truth. It's 511 00:28:42,916 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 1: actually telling yourself the truth and then listing your evidence 512 00:28:46,996 --> 00:28:49,716 Speaker 1: for that truth. I'd let this process because it allows 513 00:28:49,716 --> 00:28:51,756 Speaker 1: you to do something that we know is so powerful 514 00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:54,276 Speaker 1: when you're trying to switch your thoughts around, which is 515 00:28:54,276 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 1: that you're really harnessing curiosity. You know what am I 516 00:28:57,076 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 1: really thinking here? But also what's the evidence for that? 517 00:28:59,676 --> 00:29:02,356 Speaker 1: Not judgmentally, but just kind of being curious about where 518 00:29:02,396 --> 00:29:04,276 Speaker 1: this stuff came from. I mean, have you seen that 519 00:29:04,316 --> 00:29:06,796 Speaker 1: this pl technique can really work? Do you have examples 520 00:29:06,796 --> 00:29:10,796 Speaker 1: of this being really powerful? Resolutely? I am amazed at 521 00:29:10,836 --> 00:29:13,116 Speaker 1: the things that people are able to let go up. 522 00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:17,076 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the mother daughter guilt. I was amazed at 523 00:29:17,116 --> 00:29:19,356 Speaker 1: how many stories of that I got as I began 524 00:29:19,436 --> 00:29:22,876 Speaker 1: writing the book, researching and then hearing from readers. I 525 00:29:22,916 --> 00:29:25,116 Speaker 1: won't go into detail about like why is there mother 526 00:29:25,196 --> 00:29:27,956 Speaker 1: daughter guilt? But there seems to be a lot of, 527 00:29:28,276 --> 00:29:30,036 Speaker 1: you know, feeling like you've got to live up to 528 00:29:30,076 --> 00:29:34,676 Speaker 1: these certain expectations. A lot of times our upbringing from 529 00:29:34,676 --> 00:29:40,836 Speaker 1: a religious standpoint can have all sorts of expectations that 530 00:29:41,036 --> 00:29:44,596 Speaker 1: somehow you need to be perfect, you need to be 531 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:48,916 Speaker 1: so very good in every way. Inevitably you're going to 532 00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:50,996 Speaker 1: fall short and the guilt is going to come in. 533 00:29:51,196 --> 00:29:55,076 Speaker 1: So I really believe that the biggest outcome is when 534 00:29:55,076 --> 00:29:57,876 Speaker 1: you're able to just accept where you are. And it 535 00:29:57,916 --> 00:30:01,316 Speaker 1: really does require a bit of humility to say I 536 00:30:01,356 --> 00:30:06,156 Speaker 1: won't always get things perfect, and that's okay because I'm human. 537 00:30:07,196 --> 00:30:09,356 Speaker 1: I don't have to beat myself up. Beating your self 538 00:30:09,436 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: up literally is about you feeling that that guilt, that 539 00:30:13,076 --> 00:30:15,356 Speaker 1: debt that you owe, and if no one else is 540 00:30:15,396 --> 00:30:17,876 Speaker 1: going to make you pay, you're going to make you pay. 541 00:30:17,956 --> 00:30:20,316 Speaker 1: And when you realize I don't have to do that, 542 00:30:21,116 --> 00:30:24,036 Speaker 1: I can give myself some grace. I can let go 543 00:30:24,116 --> 00:30:27,236 Speaker 1: of the guilt. I can literally just say it is 544 00:30:27,316 --> 00:30:29,636 Speaker 1: what it is. Now, how am I going to grow 545 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:32,876 Speaker 1: from it? What can I learn from it? But beating 546 00:30:32,916 --> 00:30:35,076 Speaker 1: myself up does not need to be a part of 547 00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:39,236 Speaker 1: the equation, and so getting comfortable with that, I think 548 00:30:39,276 --> 00:30:43,396 Speaker 1: can be a big step for many people who are perfectionists, 549 00:30:43,756 --> 00:30:45,796 Speaker 1: who feel like they have to get it all right 550 00:30:45,996 --> 00:30:49,676 Speaker 1: or they fail completely, instead saying I don't have to 551 00:30:49,676 --> 00:30:53,156 Speaker 1: get it all right, and in fact I can't, and 552 00:30:53,276 --> 00:30:57,556 Speaker 1: here I am still trying. When we start to ask 553 00:30:57,556 --> 00:31:00,436 Speaker 1: ourselves the right questions, we can come to see false 554 00:31:00,476 --> 00:31:04,596 Speaker 1: guilt for what it is, false, fake, simply not warranted. 555 00:31:05,476 --> 00:31:08,476 Speaker 1: In addition to making us feel less guilty, this process 556 00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:10,556 Speaker 1: can also help help us connect to what our true 557 00:31:10,636 --> 00:31:13,916 Speaker 1: values really are. So whenever I start to go into 558 00:31:13,956 --> 00:31:17,076 Speaker 1: guilt overload, I'm going to plan to use Valerie's Peel method. 559 00:31:17,596 --> 00:31:20,956 Speaker 1: I'll try to pinpoint my triggers, really examine my thoughts 560 00:31:21,436 --> 00:31:24,396 Speaker 1: exchange all those lies for the truth and start to 561 00:31:24,476 --> 00:31:27,596 Speaker 1: list the evidence. And when all those unchecked boxes on 562 00:31:27,636 --> 00:31:29,516 Speaker 1: my to do list make me feel like I'm not 563 00:31:29,596 --> 00:31:32,756 Speaker 1: good enough or doing enough, I'll just add one more 564 00:31:32,756 --> 00:31:36,476 Speaker 1: item to the list, give myself a little grace, and 565 00:31:36,516 --> 00:31:40,036 Speaker 1: I'll plan to check that one off right away. I 566 00:31:40,076 --> 00:31:42,316 Speaker 1: hope you've learned some strategies that you can use to 567 00:31:42,436 --> 00:31:45,396 Speaker 1: reset your relationship with guilt, and I hope you'll come 568 00:31:45,396 --> 00:31:47,956 Speaker 1: back to hear the next episode of The Happiness Lab 569 00:31:48,036 --> 00:31:55,556 Speaker 1: with me Doctor Laurie Santos. If you love this show 570 00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:59,436 Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 571 00:31:59,996 --> 00:32:03,516 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 572 00:32:03,556 --> 00:32:06,516 Speaker 1: and uninterrupted listening for only four ninety nine a month. 573 00:32:07,196 --> 00:32:10,076 Speaker 1: As a special gift to Pushkin Plus subscribers, I'll be 574 00:32:10,076 --> 00:32:12,996 Speaker 1: sharing a series of six guided meditations to help you 575 00:32:13,036 --> 00:32:16,676 Speaker 1: practice the lessons we've learned from our experts. Pushkin Plus 576 00:32:16,716 --> 00:32:19,276 Speaker 1: is available on the show page and Apple Podcasts, or 577 00:32:19,316 --> 00:32:28,316 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot fm, slash plus. The Happiness Lab is 578 00:32:28,316 --> 00:32:31,356 Speaker 1: co written and produced by Ryan Dilley, Emily Anne Vaughan, 579 00:32:31,676 --> 00:32:35,716 Speaker 1: and Courtney Guerino. Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, 580 00:32:36,116 --> 00:32:40,156 Speaker 1: with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering by Evan Viola. Special 581 00:32:40,196 --> 00:32:45,116 Speaker 1: thanks to Milabelle Heather Fame, John Schnars, Carli Migliori, Christina Sullivan, 582 00:32:45,316 --> 00:32:50,036 Speaker 1: Brant Haynes, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Royston Preserved, 583 00:32:50,396 --> 00:32:54,596 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg, and my agent Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab 584 00:32:54,716 --> 00:32:57,276 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and Nate Doctor 585 00:32:57,356 --> 00:33:01,116 Speaker 1: Laurie Santos. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the 586 00:33:01,156 --> 00:33:06,396 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts,