WEBVTT - The Nürburgring 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.560 Welcome to Car Stuff, a production of I Heart Radio's 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:08.960 How Stuff Works. Hi, and Welcome to Car Stuff. I'm 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.960 your host Scott Benjamin, and I am Kurt Garren. You know, 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.840 I'm super excited about this show this week because we've 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:16.479 got a topic that's got a lot of meat to 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.599 it and something that I think that is gonna be 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.880 just right for conversation between the two of us, because 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.440 we both have an interest in this sort of thing anyway, Um, 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.000 you know, a little bit of track driving, a little 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.520 bit of uh, a little thrill seeking. I guess maybe 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.680 we're both kind of not adrenaline junkies, but we both 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:32.640 like to uh, kind of test the limits of our 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:34.839 vehicles kind of you know, just get out there and 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:36.360 have a little bit of fun in them. And I 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:38.120 think this is something that a lot of people can 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.240 relate to. Maybe not a lot of people have done 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.360 this in the past, of course, I think we're gonna 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.440 find very few of our listeners have actually done this. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.960 But there are a couple of examples that that I'll 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:48.600 tell you about in just a moment. So let's just 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:50.559 jump right into it and I'll tell our listeners what 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.000 we're gonna be talking about today, And it was kind 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.520 of a question that I had, and it's something that 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.400 I know I've voiced on my other show on car 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:00.880 stuff in the past, and and I think I've maybe 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.120 answered a little bit and and we've even discussed this track, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.920 and I'll get to all of this, you understand it 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.920 just a moment. But my question is about the nerber Ring, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.960 and the nerber Ring has, in the past, i don't know, 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.800 decade or maybe even twelve fifteen years, seem to be 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:22.160 the place that manufacturers have taken their automobiles to test 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.040 the limits, to see how fast they can lap the Nerburgring. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.920 And there's a specific part of the nerber Ring that 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.399 they do this in. There's it's it's a it's a 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.360 certain loop that they tested on. We'll talk about what 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:35.560 it is. Is it's kind of like a level playing 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.120 field for all manufacturers to be able to go and say, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.200 we can run this track at this speed in this 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.720 amount of time in this car, and that's why our 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:47.680 car is the best. And if you think you can 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.440 top it, go do it. Yeah. And it offers a 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.240 bunch of different types of conditions as well through the 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.600 surface of the course and the terrain weather and all 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.080 sorts of other obstacles that may get interesting and kind 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.000 of like a something something to brag about. Oh absolutely, 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.360 we'll we'll talk about all of this because there's some 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.200 really there's believe it or not. Even the weather is 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.079 a fascinating topic on this track, and so as the 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.520 like the surface material because it changes over over time, 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.880 over distance rather And maybe one of the coolest things 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.120 about this is that you can go and drive on 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.520 this track if you just have a few dollars in 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.760 your pocket. It doesn't really cost that much money. It's 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.520 officially a toll road. And I know I'm probably not 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.040 giving anything away by saying that right now. And man, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.440 there's some fascinating things that go along with this whole thing. Now, 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.880 now here's a little bit of background, and I want 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.400 to temper this with this thought. There's a car stuff 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.760 episode on the Nurburgring, and we went through a lot 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.440 of history. We went through the details of how they've 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.440 modified the track, and you know, like you know, the 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.920 different curves and all that stuff and and the barriers, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.800 and you're just a lot of information about the track itself. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.160 So there's a ton of history, there's a ton of 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.200 material there about Grand Prixs or you know about Grand 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.320 Prix racing about um, you know, the switchover to Formula 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.320 one and all of that. It's all there. So I 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:06.720 don't want to I don't want to double up on 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.720 too much of that. And I know that's tough not 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.359 to step on that. So we're gonna We're gonna have 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.919 a little bit of overlap, but not a whole lot. Now, 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.120 there's a few things that I do I do feel 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.480 like we need to repeat. This is just because there's 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.000 some really interesting things about this track that I think 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.800 are important. And one number one, probably the most important 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.360 thing that we need to know about this track is 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.519 that it's insanely dangerous. Insanely dangerous. I mean, it really is. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.000 And it was designed a long long time ago. I 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.760 think the track was built in what and it's like 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.720 it's a huge, huge track. It's it's what UM well, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.680 in its current uh form, I think that the overall lap, 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.720 if you uh, the nord Schlift or nord Schleef that 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.520 we're gonna talk about, which is the North Loop UM 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.400 is about fourteen It's over fourteen miles, right, okay, so 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.440 over a hundred yeah, oh yeah, that's right. That's that's 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.440 another important point. This is a this is of course 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.640 that goes through the mountains. Yeah, i'd I'd like to 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.240 see what the elevation changes. I think the course of 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.120 a lot. I think that I think that I read 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.480 somewhere that the elevation change is over a thousand feet 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.360 between the start and finish of the of the track. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.680 So really an interesting track. It's it's fascinating. What do 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.320 you say, A hundred and fifties some turns, they had more, 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.280 they tried to make it safer and uh. And that's 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.400 partly due to Jackie Stewart. Uh. In fact, it's it's 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.200 mostly due to Jackie Stewart and a lot of other 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.320 F one drivers that got together and said, we are 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.840 actually they're actually gonna boycott this race if they didn't 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.200 make some changes. And this this wasn't always the case 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.480 because early on, you know, Formula one, it was it 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.000 was a little bit different. It was it was it 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.039 was fast, sure, but it wasn't quite as fast and 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.880 it wasn't quite as dangerous as it was in the 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.679 late nineteen sixties. And when they started adding some wings 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.159 to the cars and we're at a little more down force, 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.839 so you know where the car stuck to the track exactly, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.000 and so when they when they would go over some 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:07.279 of the more I guess pronounced elevation quick elevation changes, 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.919 maybe the car would get lighter than than it should 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.080 have been or yeah, that was I was just trying 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.760 to figure out why the drivers were so afraid of 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.400 this particular track, and that's all I could come up with. Well, see, 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.400 the course got it wasn't that the course changed, of course, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.800 you know that is the same as it always exactly. Yeah, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.480 the cars got faster and the car has changed. They're 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.279 probably more dependent on air flowing flowing around it in 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.400 a certain way. Absolutely, they're not. Cars aren't supposed to 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.880 get too far off the correct surface. Yeah, exactly right. 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.839 Cars are designed to be on the track surface. And 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:40.880 we've talked about this with you know, the thrust SSC 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.000 and you know all the other cars that are going 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.040 fast and essentially every car that we talked about so 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.240 far on the fast track. Um. But cars are designed 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.080 to stay low, to stay kind of stuck to the ground. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:54.359 The faster you go, the more down force they have 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.600 to have in order to stay on the ground. And 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.719 what happens is that there's some dramatic elevation changes, and 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.479 whether it's just a little rise or um, you know, 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.080 it's like you're coming over a crest and you can't 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.599 see what's going on on the other side of it, 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.120 UM and it drops right off. At this point, the 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.560 cars were going so fast that they were becoming airborne. 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.039 And part of the problem was that with the way 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.159 that the down force was UM designed, I guess on 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.520 these cars it was meant to act like a reverse 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.599 wing to push the car down. So when you get 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.920 air underneath the car, it acts in the opposite way. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.839 It acts like it's gonna want to lift off. And 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.960 we've seen that in recent years of course with Lama 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:31.760 and you know other tracks as well. It's not just 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.279 it's not just the nerbor Ring, but but tracks where 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.800 cars become airborne. These road courses are really really dangerous 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.760 for drivers that are going super super fast and UM. 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.320 Back then, you know, back in the late six nineteen sixties, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.240 Jackie Stewart was saying that at the time, and I 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.560 think I've mentioned this another podcast even you know they 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.000 f one podcast is that you know a lot of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.000 his friends were dying on this on this on these circuits, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.440 on these Grand Prix circuits, and the Nerburgring was especially dangerous. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.640 In fact um, one of the facts that came out 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:03.520 of the Last Car Stuff episode, and I think it 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.120 was something that Bennett mentioned, is that this is hard 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.159 to believe. And I don't know where he dug this up, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.200 but I do remember him saying this that F one 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.120 drivers had a two thirds chance over five years of 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.360 competition that they would be killed in competition in five years. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.720 Two thirds chance. That's sixty six percent chance that you 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.880 would die in a race if you raced for five 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.800 years or longer in F one competition at the time. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.440 And this is like, you know, during the late nineteen sixties, 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:34.360 early nineteen seventies. So Jackie Stewart had a very valid point, 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.200 you know, he said, you know, I'm I'm losing I'm 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.960 losing friends every weekend on these tracks. Safety has got 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.400 improved in some way. Let's start with cars, of course, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.280 but let's move on to you know, safety equipment and 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.320 tracks and everything. So he wanted improvements everywhere the Nurburgring. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.000 They respond They changed a lot of the a lot 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.840 of the track, you know, they slowed down some of 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:55.800 the corners and you know, it made it a little 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.400 bit safer in a lot of ways, and there's a 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.560 lot of ways they can design corners to make them 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.920 a little bit better. But overall, still the Nurburgring is 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.080 just an inherently dangerous course for a lot of reasons. 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.520 And I think you you already know a couple of reasons. Why, Yeah, yeah, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:10.840 I think I know what you're trying to get a 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.480 I mean the fact that the track is kind of 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.720 laid right on top of these extremely rolling hills in 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.480 the middle of a forest. Um, it's a lot narrower 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.560 than a lot of modern day race tracks are designed 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.160 to be, the surfaces different, the weather conditions are different, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.360 and then just the general speed at what you're going Um, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.679 of course is designed at a time when cars didn't 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.000 see speeds like they see now. Sure they were fast, 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.840 but they weren't quite as fast as they were in 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.360 the sixties and seventies. And then even now, I mean 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.719 they're they're incredibly fast. You know, I think I want 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.240 to mention this right now, if that's all right, I 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.280 want to take just a second to say that I 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.400 think the last German Grand Prix that was run at 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.200 the Nurburgring. And that's very specific. Well we'll talk about 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.679 that in a second. But the last one that was 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.040 running at the Nurburgring was and uh, you know, of 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.320 course there were other during Grand Prix. I mean, the 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.160 latest one was in twenty eighteen, I believe, right, or 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:02.800 was there one in En There might have been one. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:07.720 They all right, um, but but yeah, they kind of 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.280 like skip around. So it's not always run at hockenheim 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.199 Ring or at um you know, the Nurburgring. It's kind 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.480 of a mix of the two, or sometimes it's just 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.800 not even either one of those, you know, depending on 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.200 whether they're gonna run something else. Um. You know, you 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.760 mentioned one thing here that another thing that I need 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.760 to mention real quick. The weather. The weather is a 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.960 huge factor in this. Now, this course is so large 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.440 that there is a there there's a town in the 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.240 middle of the track. I mean, there are people that 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.320 live there. There residents that live there throughout the year. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.400 There's a castle in the middle of the track. That's 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.480 how big this is. And all of the you know, 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.040 the the surrounding property I mean, and the castle goes 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.400 back to like the eleven hundreds or something like that. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.079 Goes back a long long way. I mean it's an old, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.160 old castle. Of course. If you ever look at any 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:56.440 bit of footage that is maybe shot where you know 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:01.240 there's an airplane fly over, the track itself is beautiful track. 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.480 I mean you would you would just kind of your 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.679 mouth with water wanting to get onto this track and 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.000 drive it because it's such an interesting looking track. It 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.080 looks beautiful, really it does. And that's why Jackie Stewart 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:13.760 decided he was going to call it the Green Hell 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.640 because he feared it, but it was also beautiful and 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.319 it was green, and you know, the trees are right nearby. 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.480 There's a great sensation of speed and everything. But the 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.240 weather is something that you really have to factor into 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.640 this thing because it could be pouring rain on one 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.240 part of the course and the other part could be 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.280 completely dry and sunny. And we've seen Sir Jackie Stewart 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.520 talk about this and he one one scene is one 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.000 where he was in a rolls Royce and he's still 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.800 in his his his garb right his his his fire 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.319 suit on and yeah, I think a little yeah, I 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.480 think they picked him up in the pits and said, hey, Jackie, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.839 let's go out and talk about the course a little bit. Here. 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.520 We happen to have this Rolls Royce for you, you know, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.960 as a convertible, very nice, perfect Yeah, that's right, did 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.199 no problem. Maybe maybe it was even his who knows. Um, Yeah, 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.200 he's driving the track and he's discussing what some of 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.240 the surface changes are like and what some of the 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.240 weather changes are like. From what I gather from what 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.920 Stewart said was that the different types of pavement hold 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.679 water different besides the fact that one lap it may 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:15.840 not be raining, and then the next time you come 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.880 through a certain section that had rained or is currently raining, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.680 the weight water drains off of the track is different 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.480 as well, So some spots that will dry out quicker 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.719 and some spots that will dry out slower. And then 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.600 water running across the track in a certain way creates 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.600 little streams, so that if you can imagine flying over 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.079 a hill and then setting up for a turn right 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.840 after you jump over this little rise and then it 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.079 being wet on the other side, you know, you can 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.120 imagine how tricky and the I guess just generally sketchy 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.160 this particular track can get when you're racing on it. Yeah, 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.840 and it wasn't wet the previous lap, so you know, 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.680 the things change on this course over the course of 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.520 one lap. It's just it's fascinating to me that you know, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.440 there there is a weather factor as well in this 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.840 and it it almost reminds me a little bit of um, 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.800 you know, like Pike's Peak or something like that, where 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:05.920 you might you might encounter a date with sunshine and 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.280 warm weather at the bottom, you get to the top 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.520 and there's a blizzard practically going on. Um it's similar 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.959 to that or well, that's why it maybe the ultimate 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.000 test track in a way. A lot of conditions are different. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.960 Road surfaces are different. There's concrete slabs, there's bank turns, 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:26.280 uphill downhill, suspension gets light, gets heavy, like you mentioned, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.640 It's just it's a place where everybody could go and 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.199 kind of see what they have. You know what. I 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.920 love the idea that you know, everybody's kind of got 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.400 their own opinion about what this course is all about. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.920 Like the drivers do a lot of them are I 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:41.480 think a lot of them are afraid of it. And 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.480 I don't think there's anything wrong with that, or at 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.120 least uh, there's a level of respect about the course. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.160 Well you know honestly. Yeah, yeah, I guess maybe the 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:51.800 respect is a better way to say it. I mean 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.600 to say they're afraid of it. I mean they do 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.360 it anyway because they've got nerves of steel, right. I 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:57.800 think I would be afraid of it, really if I 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.080 had to go out and do that. Of course, the 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.520 first time I assume that rookies are afraid of it, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.080 probably I'm as sure. I'm sure that they are. But 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.959 Jackie Stewart, he said, um in in one of those laps, 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.640 you know he has he does have great respect for 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.520 the course. He does, and I think he has a 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.959 little bit of fear for of it because it is 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.040 a kind of scary thing to drive. You never know 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.120 if you're gonna make it back. He said. He always 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.320 every time he left to go to the German Grand 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.760 Prix at the nurburg Ring, he would stop at the 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.040 end of his driveway, look back at his house, kind 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.920 of like one long moment, and then leave. And he said, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.319 because I never knew if I was ever going to 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.920 come home from that race. Because that's not dangerous it was. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.160 And he said, while he was driving this thing, he said, 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.199 you know, I drive this at speed, I'm going a 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.320 hundred and seventy five miles an hour on this course 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:41.720 at the time he was this is back in again 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.199 in the late sixties, hundred seventy five miles an hour. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.559 He said, you know, when I if I really were 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.600 ever to walk this course, if I would ever just 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.680 like really take in that, you know, there's no guardrail here, 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.400 and over here there's you know, just pine trees, and 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.280 you know over in this area here, like if I 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.559 go off, I'm going into a stream, you know that 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.000 kind of thing. He said, if I ever, if I 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.040 ever really just took all that in, I probably would 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.640 never drive here ever again. I'd never raced his course. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:09.920 And uh, and I think he's got a point. He said, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.520 the less he knows about the course, the better, and 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.319 that he just knows I gotta go fast and turn 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.679 left right there, right right there, and aim for that 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.520 tree so that I can hit the carousel in the 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.600 right spot. And it's just he knew the course really well. 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.680 But he said, the less he knew about the surrounding 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.200 part of the course, you know, the the dangerous part, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.440 like if you were to go off course, the better 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.280 off he was. Yeah, so he had he did have 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.560 a healthy respect for it, and you know, I think 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.960 there's more, there's more to it. You know, we listened 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.520 to UM some audio from Boris said who is also 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.880 he's a legendary road racing driver as well. You can 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.200 look up this interview if you want on YouTube. You 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:52.240 can find the entire Boris said, UM discussion, it's I 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.560 think it's got the title is long. It's it's it's 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.960 UM Steve Littart's podcast. Yes, it's he's a he's a 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.160 he was a crew chief in NASCAR for are several drivers. 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.040 It's Steve Lettart on Location and that's his podcast, although 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:06.720 this one has video as well, but it was from 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.800 Watkins Glen and there he's discussing, you know, the dramatic 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.040 elevation changes and and if you skip forward to about 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.720 the ten minute mark, that's about where the discussion about 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.080 the Nurburgring starts. And uh, he's talking about he races 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.080 in something that's the twenty four hours of Nurburgring. So 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.520 imagine how grueling that would be on on you know, 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.800 a series of drives. It's not just one driver, obviously, 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.680 but he said something just remarkable here. He said that 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.840 at the start of that race two hundred and thirty 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:38.160 cars start that race, two hundred and thirty. Imagine starting 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.600 the race with two hundred and thirty cars on the track. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.600 And we're talking about a track like what we've been discussing, 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.480 a long, long track, you know, with a hundred and 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:51.280 fifties some hundred fifty six turns, elevation changes, it's you know, 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.440 going to get dark at some point during this race. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.560 There's weather changes. Uh, there's very little runoff. There's you know, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.480 the almost no guard rails of mentioned. I mean there 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.280 are some, but you're in an extremely fast cars. And 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.360 he said you if you're in a fast car and 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:06.840 when he and he was, of course he's in one 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.040 of the top end vehicles. He was passing on average 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.400 fifty cars per lap. Yeah, fifty, I think he said 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.800 something like the faster cars a lot slower cars. Every 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.080 three lap means a sports car races all different kinds 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.920 of categories. Yeah, you know, that can make it dangerous too, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.040 because you've got slower cars and faster cars on the 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.040 same track. You know, what's interesting And gosh, you know, 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:30.840 I know we're going way over here, we have to 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.200 stop a moment. But um, what's really interesting? He said, 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.040 and here's our answer. Here he says, it's about a 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.960 nine minute lap for him in the sports car series, 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:40.840 So you know that Formula one Cars is doing a 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:42.760 lot faster than I mean, I guess a seven minute 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.640 lap something like that ballpark during the tourist and parting, 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.440 which is the kind of the daily driver events they 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.160 have at the track. Yeah, I think they said like 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.640 a ten minute lap is something to brag about. So 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.160 we'll get there. Well, we'll talk about that soon, but 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:02.760 I think first maybe we should take a break. I 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.800 love this topic. This is a this is an interesting 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.760 one because the truck has so much history, so much, 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.000 so much going on for it. We're going to talk 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.879 about the manufacturers and what they're doing at the Nrburgring 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.960 because it's not just you know, races that happen there, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.560 it's it's manufacturers that are going there and using it 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.520 as a test facility, and they're using it as kind 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.119 of a level ground test facility so that you know, 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.439 when one manufacturer says our car can lapped Nerburgring in 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.200 this amount of time, the other manufacturer has a way 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.520 to compare exactly to that time with their own version 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.840 of whatever car that they want. To bring, whether that's 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.520 an all electric car, whether that's a hybrid car, internal 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.440 combustion car, whatever type of car they want to bring, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.240 sports car, sedan, any of those things. They can claim 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.720 that they have the fastest vehicle based on the timing 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.680 that is consistent that at that track. Now we talked 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.160 about all the other things that are inconsistent. Of course, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.120 drivers are not going to be consistent. You're not gonna 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.080 have the same driver in uh different manufacturers. Car is 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:01.960 gonna bring your own driver, you know, whether it's a 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.480 pro or somebody that you know they have in their 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.560 own test track or whatever. Um, there's gonna be the weather, 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.120 there's going to be uh just you know, even um 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.200 atmospheric conditions that day at high pressure, low pressure, wind, 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.680 you know whatever. They're gonna have to deal with all that. 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.480 But the thing is that you know you're on the 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.520 same track, You've got the same distance, you've got the 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.440 same timing facility that you know says like this is 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.879 an accurate time. Everybody gets the same treatment. There's no 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.480 there's no difference in this. It's the exact same distance 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.919 every time and no no difference at all, no variance, 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.680