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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. I can't find my daughter Fine

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Speaker 1: Ming Ming Chin eventually admits that she beat her daughter

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Speaker 1: to death in a fit of rage in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: of their home in North Camp just kind of pretty well. Children,

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Speaker 1: there's like no words, like I don't even know how

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Speaker 1: you know you described that a little five year old girl,

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Speaker 1: Ming Ming struck the girl's head against the floor. Your

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Speaker 1: father cleaned her up and then unsuccessfully tried to revive

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Speaker 1: from so many regulars to this business, so many people

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Speaker 1: who interacted with this little girl. They told me she

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Speaker 1: was happy and social and always talking to customers. That

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Speaker 1: so many of those customers made connections with this precocious

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Speaker 1: little five year old and they were trying to help

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Speaker 1: police find her. To have a child five years old

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Speaker 1: die at the hands of the person that we all

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Speaker 1: leave is the one person that will protect us no

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Speaker 1: matter what, it's just unfathomable. I remember when Lucy and

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Speaker 1: John David we're five years old. I wish they were

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Speaker 1: five years old again. I wish you could start it

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Speaker 1: all over again, because it's been the best ten years

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Speaker 1: of my life. But they were so tiny and so precious.

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Speaker 1: I look back at the pictures of them at age five,

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Speaker 1: and that makes it very difficult for me to reconcile

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Speaker 1: a gorgeous little five year old girl murdered and found

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Speaker 1: hidden in a Chinese restaurant. How are you hidden in

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Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant? I mean, how can that happen? What?

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Speaker 1: They hide the little girl's dead body under a table

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Speaker 1: and nobody notices? How do you hide a child in

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Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant and she's not found. When I first

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Speaker 1: heard about this child's disappearance, we got on it. The

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Speaker 1: little girl Ashley missing hidden in the family restaurant of

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Speaker 1: Ang's Asian Cuisine in North Canton, Ohio. I, Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: We want justice. I don't want Ashley's murder in the

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Speaker 1: hiding of her body to go unnoticed, as if it

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Speaker 1: never happened, her being just another statistic that goes on

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Speaker 1: the FBI list of how many child murders there were.

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Speaker 1: Somehow I want her name to be remembered, because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to remember it all start at the beginning. Joining

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Speaker 1: me my longtime friend Jane Vellez Mitchell, founder of Jane

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Speaker 1: Unchained dot com journalist, animal rights activists and investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: Dr Patricia Saunders, psychologist, joining me out of Manhattan. Vincent Hill,

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Speaker 1: a private investigator, and Ashley Wilcot, lawyer, child advocate and

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Speaker 1: founder of Child Crime Watch. You can find it on Facebook,

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Speaker 1: Alan and Jackie. Of course, everyone, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us as we dissect the case a little Ashley.

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Speaker 1: Let's start at the very beginning when Ashley goes missing? Allan,

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Speaker 1: what what happened? How was she reported missing? Well, there

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Speaker 1: was a nine one one call saying that she's missing,

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Speaker 1: and it started to search. Hold on, Allen, before you

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Speaker 1: go any further, let's take a listen to that nine

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Speaker 1: one one call and see what we keep learning. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? I can't find my daughter? Hey? How

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Speaker 1: old does she? Five? She just turned five? S's a topic? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And you at Ames? Thanks? Yeah. When the last time

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Speaker 1: you've seen it? Uh this afternoon probably at the time,

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Speaker 1: uh three? Maybe four? Wow? N five? You saw her

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Speaker 1: in five? What was she wearing? Okay? What what was

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Speaker 1: she wearing? She's wearing a purple winter code. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what those things are called, but they're not jeans.

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what color were they? Grayish? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And you haven't seen it in five hours? About Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean she was there sleeping. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: where was she sleeping at? In the restaurant? You know,

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Speaker 1: she she was sleeping there. And I picked up my

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Speaker 1: older daughter from school. We all saw her sleeping there.

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Speaker 1: So and you know, we went to work and you know,

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Speaker 1: we let her sleep and we got busy, and then

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Speaker 1: uh uh after we got busy, and when we started

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Speaker 1: cleaning up, and and then you know, we opened her

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Speaker 1: door and she's not here. Okay. Alan, As I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to that NOIM on one call, I am looking at

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Speaker 1: photos of little Ashley and it's just killing me. I

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Speaker 1: want to go to the discovery of her body. Exactly

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Speaker 1: where was her body found? Alan? It was found in

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Speaker 1: her parents restaurant, and it was in the in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: and it had been there during the whole search. It

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Speaker 1: had been right by the freezer. Yes, and there had

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Speaker 1: been a state wide search for it. Jane blas Mitchell

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Speaker 1: joining me. Jane, this brings back so many memories of

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Speaker 1: the whole state and turning into a nationwide search looking

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Speaker 1: for this five year old little girl, just absolutely beautiful,

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Speaker 1: the long dark hair, the big brown eyes, the big smile,

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Speaker 1: the perfect little teeth. The whole state was looking for her.

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Speaker 1: She's right there in Ang's Chinese cuisine the whole time.

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Speaker 1: How is it, Jane her parents didn't find her well

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Speaker 1: because the mother killed her. And the concession video is

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Speaker 1: absolutely chilling, Nancy, and it is just creating just a

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Speaker 1: fire store of outrage around the country because she's talking

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Speaker 1: to the investigator like, oh, a misplaced order or where

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Speaker 1: she didn't get the order right, and she just casually says,

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Speaker 1: I just killed her and I told my husband to

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Speaker 1: take care of it. Literally the emotionless. What's so shocking

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Speaker 1: is how casual she was, and it doesn't take long

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Speaker 1: for this investigator to break her. And you're right, there

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Speaker 1: are such chilling parallels to the case as any case

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Speaker 1: a mother's thanks please look for my child, and all

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Speaker 1: along she knew exactly where the trial was and um

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Speaker 1: was so blase and casual. Ashley Wilcot, lawyer and child advocate,

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Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com on Facebook, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: have you listened to this woman's confession? I have the

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Speaker 1: mom gosh, and there's no emotion. It is absolutely crazy

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Speaker 1: to listen to because she does just say it like

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Speaker 1: it's another day in the park and it's not a

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Speaker 1: big deal. And she also stayed she didn't say she

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Speaker 1: even hid the body or had her husband hide the body. Instead,

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Speaker 1: she said, oh, I told my husband to dispose of

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Speaker 1: the body like a piece of trash. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: amazing to me luckily joining me as Vince and the

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Speaker 1: whole private investigator and Dr Patricia Saunders, a well known

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Speaker 1: psychologist out of New York. Guys, before I go any further,

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear exactly what they're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this shocking confession. I know, did

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Speaker 1: you're not crying? You said, I don't have nothing to last?

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Speaker 1: Is not beautiful. You don't have no tears left, You

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Speaker 1: don't have not left. Your daughter is dead? What happened?

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Speaker 1: How did you die? Just her? Did you hit her? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Dr Patricia Saunders, Boy do I need to shrink right now?

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Speaker 1: And so on so many levels, but let's just start

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Speaker 1: with this confession. Her affect is so flat, pat And

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Speaker 1: another thing that really struck me with what Jane Bles

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Speaker 1: Mitchell said, it was like it was like she had

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Speaker 1: a misplaced order at Ang's Asian Cuisine. It's just so casual.

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Speaker 1: I think it's any piece of this that is cultural, uh,

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Speaker 1: and has to do with the differences in language that

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Speaker 1: especially if she's from the provinces that the Chinese cultural

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Speaker 1: people tend to handle anxiety by freezing up and by

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Speaker 1: presenting a bland, blank face. But nonetheless it's still cold

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Speaker 1: as ice. It seems like this is a mom who

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Speaker 1: was simply did not bond with this child, and the

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Speaker 1: fact that it was a girl child in China makes

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Speaker 1: her garbage. You know what when he just said something,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand you don't bond, you know, but I

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Speaker 1: want another thing that Jane said earlier, she said this

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Speaker 1: reminds her of taught mom reminder top Mom never asked

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Speaker 1: anybody to find Keiley. It was the grandmother. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Vincent Hill, private an investigator, why bothered call

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Speaker 1: nine one one. I mean, she killed a little girl

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Speaker 1: and she was hid there in her own restaurant as

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Speaker 1: people were eating. I mean she they were looking for

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Speaker 1: her for a long time, and as people were ordering

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Speaker 1: Chinese and eating and cooking and all that. The little

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Speaker 1: girl's body was in the restaurant. Yeah, Nancy, and I

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Speaker 1: think that call was based strictly on nothing but guilt.

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Speaker 1: He knew what they had done, knew you had to

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Speaker 1: report it before it went too long because too many

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Speaker 1: people would start asking questions. You went ahead and placed

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Speaker 1: the nine one one call. And I too, have seen

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Speaker 1: the confession video, and I I've set across an interrogation

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Speaker 1: table from some very hardened criminals who had more emotion

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Speaker 1: than this mother showed who had killed her, a little

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Speaker 1: five year old. I just couldn't believe it. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen to more of that confession, that chilling confession.

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Speaker 1: Did you hit her? Yeah? Okay? How? How? How? Yeah? Okay?

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Speaker 1: You know, um, Ashley Wilcott, you know very well that

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Speaker 1: the state never has to prove motive. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: law does not require a prosecutor to climb into the

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Speaker 1: mind of a killer, wander around and figure out why.

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Speaker 1: That's just not part of the burden on the state.

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Speaker 1: The state is to show who did it in the

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Speaker 1: correct jurisdiction and hopefully how that's what the state has

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Speaker 1: to prove. But practically speaking, Ashley Wilcot, don't you believe

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Speaker 1: the state needs to show motive as a practical matter, sure,

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Speaker 1: and I think that everybody wants to know why, because

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Speaker 1: you also want to know in the future, how can

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Speaker 1: we help prevent these kinds of crimes. And here's what's

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Speaker 1: fascinating in this case. This mother states, oh, she was

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Speaker 1: overwhelmed because the child was disobedience. And she even says, hey,

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Speaker 1: you can't control yourself sometimes, So I guess that's her

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Speaker 1: motive in this case. You know she's overwhelming. To me

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Speaker 1: that that could be her motive. You're exactly right. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to what murder mom says, I only have

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Speaker 1: two hands on the whole hands girl, on two hands.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to, but you can't control yourself sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I don't have four hands. I'm not four hands girl.

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Speaker 1: Did she just say that? Dr Patricia Saunders, I don't

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Speaker 1: have four hands. I'm afraid. So she expected if five

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Speaker 1: year are all to help out in the restaurant. But

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Speaker 1: listen to this. Listen to this, Vincent Hill, Private an investigator.

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Speaker 1: The mom who murders her little five year old girl

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Speaker 1: blames the grandparents. The grandparents, she shifts a little girl

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Speaker 1: back to China. I think for the summer and says

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Speaker 1: she comes home and is disobedient. Maybe she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to come home to a mom that beats her. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's why she's disobedient. And when you beat a child,

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Speaker 1: what do you expect is going to happen? What do

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Speaker 1: you think is going to happen? Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, I

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Speaker 1: mean that was the biggest scapegoat, if you will, that

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Speaker 1: I've heard she was sent to her a grandparents house

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Speaker 1: and she came back disobedient. I mean, when my kids

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Speaker 1: were younger they went to my grandmother's house, did they

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Speaker 1: come back acting different? Absolutely? That's what all kids do

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Speaker 1: when they go to their grandparents house because they get spoiled.

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Speaker 1: But that does not justify norm Does that mean you

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Speaker 1: can just snap and lose it all because you have

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Speaker 1: a disobedient tow That's part of being a parent. Children

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Speaker 1: don't always listen to what their parents say. Let me

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Speaker 1: pause just briefly and thank you for joining us here

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Speaker 1: on serious sex in. It means so much to us

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Speaker 1: that you are joining us in our quest for justice.

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Speaker 1: I also want to thank our partner, Legal Zoom. What

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Speaker 1: people across our country. Thanks legal Zoom, police say they

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Speaker 1: got a tip of where the reported missing girl might be.

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Speaker 1: So I know she didn't wander off on her own.

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Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. I just was not expecting

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Speaker 1: to this breaking break, choked up. There's like no words,

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Speaker 1: like I don't even know how you know you describe

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Speaker 1: that a little five year old girl. The one thing

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Speaker 1: we wanted at the end of the day was, uh,

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Speaker 1: to recover that girl alive. Police say Chen struck her daughter,

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Speaker 1: Ashley jaw with her right fist multiple times so hard

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Speaker 1: it killed her. I'm just shocked. Um, just his personality,

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Speaker 1: he just does not seem that way. She was a

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Speaker 1: little more reserved than him. But again, nowadays, you never

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Speaker 1: know when this type of relie comes about. It's it

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Speaker 1: is really devastating. Um, and just are so sad for

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Speaker 1: that little girl. A gorgeous little five year old girl

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Speaker 1: murdered and found hidden. How do you hide a child

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Speaker 1: hidden in the family restaurant of Ang's Asian Cuisine in

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Speaker 1: North Canton, Ohio. The little girl Ashley. We now know

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Speaker 1: that the father of the little girl laying tried to

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Speaker 1: revive the child. What do we know, Jane Willis Michel,

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Speaker 1: about the cause of death of this five year old

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Speaker 1: little girl who was then stuffed in a corner and

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Speaker 1: hidden in a Chinese restaurant. Well, it was a fatal

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Speaker 1: brain injury, and you're right, Nancy. After it happened, and

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Speaker 1: prosecutors said it's not premeditated. She had essentially a fit

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Speaker 1: of anger and hid her child, and then they tried

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Speaker 1: to revive her. And when they couldn't revive her, the

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Speaker 1: wife says to the husband, take care of it, and

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Speaker 1: then he hides the body. So he's also with big

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Speaker 1: trouble and will do time. But what's really interesting is

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Speaker 1: this woman's backstory. She came here from China as an

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Speaker 1: illegal immigrant. She said she was persecuted in China because

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Speaker 1: she's a member of a meditation group uh Kalum Gung,

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Speaker 1: and they are they're basically persecuted in China. And then

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Speaker 1: she starts this restaurant. So I think she had a

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Speaker 1: very hard, hard life. Not to make excuses for her,

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Speaker 1: but I think a part of her just shut down

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Speaker 1: at a certain point and her values became confused. Keeping

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Speaker 1: the business running was her obsession, and the daughter came second, third,

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Speaker 1: or fourth. And the prosecutors also said that the husband

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Speaker 1: was abusive to both the wife and the child. So

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Speaker 1: on top of everything else she's gonna doing. Is that

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Speaker 1: what they say, that's what the defense says. Well, then,

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Speaker 1: of course here's what her defense lawyer has to say.

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Speaker 1: This couple in the family, Um, this led to violence

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Speaker 1: in the hall and the unfortunate stuff. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

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Speaker 1: Not to steal a line from the late Great Gomer Pile,

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Speaker 1: this is the way I see it. America gave her asylum,

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Speaker 1: They gave her the opportunity for a better life. She

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Speaker 1: married a bright young man. And I'm looking at their

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Speaker 1: wedding photos, which actually better than my wedding photos. And

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Speaker 1: she's got on a faux mink, white mink jacket, beautiful

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Speaker 1: pink roses. She's gorgeous. He's dressed up in the white

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Speaker 1: jacket tuxedo with the black pants with a matching flower

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Speaker 1: boutineer on his chest. They have a family business that

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Speaker 1: they own and operate, and then they get the greatest

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Speaker 1: blessing that God can give, I believe, and that is

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Speaker 1: a child, a beautiful child. She has it all everything.

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Speaker 1: That's the way I see it. Ashley Wilcot completely agree

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Speaker 1: with you, Nancy, and I have to say this, while

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Speaker 1: there are some allegations that the husband was abusive. She

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Speaker 1: does not, in her confession, act like what we typically

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Speaker 1: see as a victim. Now this doesn't mean all victims

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Speaker 1: act the same, but she doesn't present as a victim

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Speaker 1: or someone who's been um beaten and physically abused in

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Speaker 1: a victim of domestic violence. She she seems very certain

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Speaker 1: and sure of herself. No, I'm no doctor, but I

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Speaker 1: would just take that into account. You know, I worked

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Speaker 1: at the Battered Women Center for nine years while I

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Speaker 1: was a prosecutor, and I fully understand the battered women's syndrome.

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Speaker 1: And I sighed with battered women who don't have a

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Speaker 1: way out of their home life or can't see that

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Speaker 1: they have a way out. That in no way justifies

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Speaker 1: murdering your five year old little girl. No way. And

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Speaker 1: to bring that up to me and my mind is

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Speaker 1: an insult to this five year old little girl. I'm

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Speaker 1: not having it. I'm not accepting that as an excuse.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this. Did you're not crying? You said I

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Speaker 1: don't have nothing left. You told me you don't have

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Speaker 1: no tears left, You don't have nothing left. Your daughter

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Speaker 1: is dead? What happened? How did you die? Just hear

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Speaker 1: her and if she does, did you hit her? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: how did you? How did you hit her? How? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And to do that, I I only have two hands

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Speaker 1: on the whole hand, girl, on two hands. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do that. To add but you can't kind

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Speaker 1: of toll yourself sometimes. I told my husband, okay, kiding, okay,

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Speaker 1: So you're telling me that you told your husband. I

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Speaker 1: told my husband. Both parents arrested after the horrific discovery,

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Speaker 1: and it sounds like mommy's blaming everybody but herself. But

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Speaker 1: again back to Jane Villis Mitchell's observation that when she

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Speaker 1: called in on nine one one, she acted like she,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe lost one of her orders, one of

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Speaker 1: her Chinese food orders. Well, the judge had harsh words

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Speaker 1: for her. I find it difficult to imagine the horror

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Speaker 1: for your child, Ashley, barely five years old, barely five

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Speaker 1: years old, the void of love, the complete absence of protection,

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Speaker 1: the presence of such anger, the horror of being beaten

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Speaker 1: by her own mother. And I use the word mother

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Speaker 1: with great pain. I find when talking to you it's insulting.

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Speaker 1: Two mothers who do what they are supposed to do

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Speaker 1: for their children no number of years is enough. A

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Speaker 1: hundred years is not enough. We can't do anything to

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Speaker 1: help five year old Ashley now, but let me give

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Speaker 1: you this number. Now. It's for child Help. I know

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Speaker 1: the ladies that I personally know, the ladies that started

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Speaker 1: child Help, and I'm very impressed with them Allan. What

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00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: is the toll free number for child Help? It's their

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Speaker 1: national child abuse hotline one eight hundred for a child

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00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: or one hundred four to two four four five three,

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00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: or find him at child help dot Org. One eight

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00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: hundred four two two four four five three one eight

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00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: hundred four a child is the child Help National child

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00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: Abuse hotline, and it's dedicated to stopping and preventing child abuse.

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00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: It serves the US and Canada. It's staff twenty four

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00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: hours a day, seven days a week, with crisis counselors

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00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: and interpreters who provide assistance in over one hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy languages, including Chinese. I want to pause and thank

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Speaker 1: our partner who is making our program today on series

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Speaker 1: Sex M two Possible. Does anybody beside me worry about

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Speaker 1: blood pressure? I am, because just the other day it

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Speaker 1: was over the holiday, Ashley. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: saw this, But a local newscaster just dropped dead, like

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Speaker 1: in her mid fifties from a stroke. Did you read

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Speaker 1: about that, Ashley did? I did. I was stunned, I know,

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Speaker 1: and leaving behind her family. You know, Ashley, I cannot

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Speaker 1: afford to drop dead of a stroke and leave the

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Speaker 1: children to be raised by my husband alone. God bless him.

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Speaker 1: I love him. He's a wonderful father. But I mean, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I come home from being out of town,

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Speaker 1: nobody's brust their teeth. It looks like a cyclone hit

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Speaker 1: the home and they've been eating McDonald's cheeseburgers ever since

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Speaker 1: I've been gone. Okay, so no, no, and no, I

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Speaker 1: gotta keep living. Now. This is what I found out about.

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Speaker 1: They're loaded with nutrients that increase blood flow, which helps

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Speaker 1: your blood pressure and increases energy. But who has time

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Speaker 1: to go get fresh beats, prepare them and cook them

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Speaker 1: every day? I do not. Now you can get those

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Speaker 1: energy benefits from beats and a powerful concentrated super food

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Speaker 1: want those benefits of a superfood, call eight hundred five

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Speaker 1: E E T S dot com. Nancy's Beats dot com.

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Speaker 1: Now with your first order, you get an entirely free

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Speaker 1: to see how super beats working for you, plus free shipping. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna get that at the vitamin store. Call

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Speaker 1: eight hundred five one six zero six eight three or

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Speaker 1: go to Nancy's Beats dot com. Today's super beats. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've prosecuted so many child abuse cases I can't even

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Speaker 1: count them all. Children so helpless they can't take up

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Speaker 1: for themselves, that cannot defend themselves. Now a spate of

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Speaker 1: publicity surrounding the torture and death of another of our

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Speaker 1: society is helpless and that is man's best friend dogs.

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Speaker 1: I was shocked when I read a story about a

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Speaker 1: dog found frozen solid after being left outside chaining its

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Speaker 1: kennel for a month. Um right now, Alan, you're telling

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Speaker 1: me what the temperatures are outside? What what are they? Alan?

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Speaker 1: It is actually colder on the some parts of the

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Speaker 1: northeast US than it is on the surface of Mars today,

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Speaker 1: and we know that's not good. Police investigating the death

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Speaker 1: of a dog chained outside a Connecticut home in bitter cold,

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Speaker 1: bitter cold, and found frozen inside it's doghouse on Year's Day.

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Speaker 1: The Hertford Cops say the dog may have been outside

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Speaker 1: as long as a month. The little dog frozen solid

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Speaker 1: when the officers got there, according to Deputy Chief Brian Foley.

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Speaker 1: It's just heart breaking. Um w t i C TV reported.

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Speaker 1: A veterinary assessment says the dog had been lying in

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Speaker 1: fecal material, which was found frozen onto its body. J

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Speaker 1: vlls Mitchell joining me from Jane Unchained dot com. Jane,

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Speaker 1: what happened? The dog was apparently out there for months

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Speaker 1: because the dog's owner was in jail and had a

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Speaker 1: family member purportedly taking care of not only the dog

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Speaker 1: that was found frozen solid outside, but another dog that

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Speaker 1: was found malnourished and shivering inside the home, and neighbors

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Speaker 1: say that essentially there was a burst water pipe inside

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Speaker 1: the home and somehow the dog ended up chained outside

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Speaker 1: because of that first water pipe. Why both of them

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Speaker 1: weren't outside are both inside and kept together is a mystery.

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Speaker 1: But imagine the mentality of a family member who's supposed

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Speaker 1: to take care of two dogs and then leaving that

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Speaker 1: dog not just outside, but change outside. This is a

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Speaker 1: torture killing this dog. It's seven degrees right now to

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Speaker 1: lead o Ohio. This dog was left outside for a

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Speaker 1: month and shade inside this dog. I mean, I can't

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Speaker 1: even imagine it. And unfortunately, Nancy, it's happening all over

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Speaker 1: the country as this extreme cyclone bomb or whatever they

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Speaker 1: want to call it of cold is enveloping a good

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Speaker 1: part of the nation. We also have another case in

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Speaker 1: a New Hampshire of a woman charged with neglecting twenty

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Speaker 1: two German shepherds, leaving them in a barn with no

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Speaker 1: heat and with their water bowls frozen solid so I

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Speaker 1: couldn't drink the water. I mean, it's unimaginable. And I say, anybody,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to kids and dogs and animals in general,

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Speaker 1: be a nosy neighbor. If you see something like this,

427
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: call the cops, call the h Maine Society before a

428
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: dog freezes solid. To Dr Patricia Saunders, psychologists joining us,

429
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: how can people be so cruel to animals? And you know,

430
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm seeing it more and more and more cruelty to animals,

431
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: But to die in this manner? You know, Patricia just

432
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: took the twins skating ice skating um in New York

433
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: and it was so cold. I would make them come

434
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: in every fifteen minutes two get hot chocolate and warm up,

435
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: and had the little heating pads on their hands and

436
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: over their toes. And I can't imagine leaving a pat

437
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: outside like that. What's the thinking, Patricia, I don't even

438
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: know if it is thinking, Nancy, it's to me there

439
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: isn't terribly much difference in the psychology of child abuse

440
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: and animal abuse. They're objectified as things, as possessions, not

441
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: as feeling, being and thinking and faties. And we know

442
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: that dogs in particular have the mental functions of a

443
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: two year old human, and that they do experience motion.

444
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: So it's unfathomable to me. Hill. As a private investigator,

445
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: you've seen it all, and it seems to me this

446
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: level of cruelty has got to seep into the rest

447
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: of your life. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And what I can

448
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: tell you when I was back in patrol police in

449
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: the streets of Nashville, you know, it was not on

450
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: common when I would answer a call for domestic violences

451
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: against a child, but you would see, you know, some

452
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: animals that were just very well, malnourished and just left

453
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: to their own devices. But the great thing about the

454
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: state of Ohio back in and unanimous zero passed the

455
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: Gooders Law, which makes animal cruelty actually a fifth degree felony.

456
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: So I think these dog owners here in Ohio have

457
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: more problems than they realized when they did what they did.

458
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's very tragic and cruel that this

459
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: dog was left out in seven degree weather when you

460
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: know here in Atlanta it's twenty two degrees right now,

461
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: and I don't want to step outside the comforts of

462
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: the heat that I'm in right now. You know, there's

463
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: more than just these two stories, the one I told

464
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: you about, the one with the German shepherds, that Jane

465
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: Villas Mitchell told you about. There's one now out of

466
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: Michigan I've just learned about. On the very first day

467
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: of the New Year, County Animals in Need of Homes

468
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: and Rescues posted about a dog found frozen to the

469
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: ground at Welts Boulevard in Flint. After finding the dog,

470
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: which the group named Felice, his injuries were addressed, but

471
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: he was frozen. Discovered frozen to the ground. At first

472
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: they thought he would lose one of his legs because

473
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: of this, but he's now having to have surgery, surgery

474
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: to save the leg. How can you leave a dog

475
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 1: frozen to the ground, Ellen, do what do you know

476
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: about that case? Well, it was on New Year's Day

477
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: and it was in Genesee County in Michigan. They found

478
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: this dog. This is an older dog. Uh and I'm

479
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: looking at the picture. You see the picture of it.

480
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: It looks like a dog that might be my senior.

481
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: It's a senior dogs, right, which I can relate to

482
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: the organ asation said, they originally feared that Folice, which

483
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: they named him, would lose one of the legs due

484
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: to that being frozen to the ground. But guess what

485
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: they've given him surgery and they've saved the leg, and

486
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: there's more surgery set for this week. Well, it doesn't

487
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: in there in Franklin County. That's in Columbus. There was

488
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: a tragic reminder to bring your pets in during this

489
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: arctic blast. And that's according to the Franklin County Dog Shelter.

490
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: They have been alerted that three dogs have been found

491
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: frozen dead. It's simply inhumane. Anybody that's been outside has

492
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: felt the pain of their fingers freezing, their toes freezing.

493
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: Dogs can't regulate their body temperature, they don't have on

494
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: a coat, they can't just rush in from outside, and

495
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: they die. The Franklin County Dog Shelter alerted the Humane

496
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: Society about the three deaths and a now pursuing animal

497
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: cruelty and neglect charges. What about that? To Jane Velez Mitchell,

498
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: I think the owners should be prosecuted. It shouldn't just

499
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: be a sad story. This is a crime, Jane, It

500
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: absolutely is, and they need to be prosecuted. And thank

501
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: you for covering it. Nancy and I believe it should

502
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: be illegal to leave your dog chained outside under any circumstances. Nobody,

503
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: no sentient being wants to be chained outside on on

504
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: some kind of chain. It's a prescription for disaster and

505
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: it and do see one arrest so far. A woman

506
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: charged just charged cruelty after police say her dog froze

507
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: to death in the bitter Call. Her name Michelle Bennett,

508
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: age fifty, old enough to know better. Michelle Bennett arrested

509
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: for one count animal cruelty. Her dog froze to death

510
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: in a doghouse at her home. Now, according to the

511
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: police report, uh we also hear from a doctor, Stephanie Henry,

512
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 1: a Windsor veterinarian, the dog was brought to her clinic

513
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: around six thirty pm and it was frozen solid. It

514
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: was also malnourished. He was underweight and he was frozen solid.

515
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: Now her bail is only she's going to get out

516
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: on bail. But I'm taking a look right now at

517
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 1: the mug the mug shot of Michelle Bennett Patricia's Honors.

518
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: She's fifty years old. She should know better. Just because

519
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: she's fifty doesn't mean that she should know better, Nancy,

520
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: that she's an adult. People are stuck in prim think

521
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: you wouldn't know better than to let a dog freeze

522
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: and starve outside. Who would to be frozen solid like

523
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: a cube of ice? Patricia, Are you trying to actually

524
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: defend her by saying she didn't know better? No, I'm

525
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: saying that cruelty are now. I'm saying that knowledge doesn't

526
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: mean anything in terms of how old one is. It's

527
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: a matter of your heart. And this woman has a cold,

528
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: cold heart, and I think she's guilty of murder. Doesn't

529
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: mind the animal in Michigan animals found frozen to the ground.

530
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: Uh now the other dog I told you about having

531
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: to have surgery a dog frozen to death in an

532
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: outdoor doghouse in Butler County. I mean it goes on

533
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: and on and on. How much? How many more times

534
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: does this have to happen? And can you imagine mug

535
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: and the pain the animal goes through Vincent Hill, private Investigator.

536
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: This isn't like picking up a gun and firing it

537
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: in a fit of anger. It takes time for a

538
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: dog to free solid like an ice cube. Yeah, it's

539
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: a very slow and painful death, Nancy. And keep in mind,

540
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: while this is going on, the dog still has its needs,

541
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: like needs to eat, it needs to drink, so not

542
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: only are you freezing to death, you're essentially starving and

543
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 1: being dehydrated to death as well. It's very so alan.

544
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: How can people report crimes like this or inhumane treatment

545
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: of animals? Nancy? The Humane Society of the United States

546
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: says that if you see animal cruelty, you can call

547
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: your local animal control agency as soon as possible, or

548
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: just dial nine one one and tell the emergency dispatcher.

549
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: Because by law, any alleged animal cruelty has to be investigated,

550
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: so they say also that you should document it. Be

551
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: sure to document the case with your cell phone video

552
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: or take pictures, make notes of dates and times, specific

553
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: details that would help the appropriate agency investigate. If your

554
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: county doesn't have a proper animal welfare agency or your

555
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: local police you don't think are really equipped to handle

556
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: an animal cruelty case, then email the Humane Society at

557
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: Humane Society dot org. You'll find their address or call them.

558
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: They have a number that's not twenty four hours, but

559
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: it's most hours. You can call them at eight six

560
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,959
Speaker 1: six seven to zero to six seven six eight six

561
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: six seven to zero to six seven six. I want

562
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: justice and for people that poo poo. The feelings and

563
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: the lives of animals. Remember, remember what you do to

564
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: the least of mine, So have you done to me?

565
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: That's what I have to say. And I want them

566
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: all to go to jail and sit there and think

567
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: about what they've done. And you know what, maybe we

568
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: can let them go in without a coat. Nancy Grace

569
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off good bye friend,