1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Lawmakers and health experts say that the country is in 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: the middle of an overdose epidemic. In two thousand Americans 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: died from drug overdose. The state of Ohio figures it's 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: home to two hundred thousand opioid addicts. Pharmaceutical companies purposely 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: misled doctors about the dangers connected with pain magic. There 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: are far too many people overdosing, far too many people dying. 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: There's hardly a family anywhere that hasn't been somehow affected 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: by the opioid epidemic. This is crime stories with Nancy Grace, 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: We've doubled the number of overdoses and they continue to 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: climb every year. It's the greatest public health crisis of 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: our our generation. People need help right now, right now, immediately. 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: It's a disease, and it needs to be approached as 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: a disease in terms of early diagnosis. Believe it or not, 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: drug overdose is now the leading cause of death for 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: Americans under the age of fifty. Let me let that 16 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: so ken. Drug overdose is now the leading cause of 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: death for all Americans under fifty. That's by far over 18 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: half of America. What the hey is happening? I mean, 19 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: I see Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for 20 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: being with us, with me A very special guest today, 21 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: Dr William Maroney joining me, renowned medical examiner, Dr Maroney. 22 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't get it. I know this much. In all 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: the years that I prosecuted, Dr Maroney, I remember seeing 24 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: stock brokers losing their trading license, lawyers, doctors, young kids 25 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: out of so called good families. Just across the board, 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: people losing their licenses, their homes, their savings accounts, their marriages, 27 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: their families, estranged from their children under orders not to 28 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: have contact with their families because of drug dependency. It 29 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: ruins everything, and once you're in it, you can't get 30 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: out of it. I mean, for Pete's sake, I've been 31 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: on weight Watchers for what two months now, and sometimes 32 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: I do it and sometimes I don't. Um, don't tell Oprah. 33 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: But if I'm like that, what about people that have 34 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: a real addiction to drugs? And now it's claiming so 35 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: many lives, the leading cause of death amongst all Americans 36 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: fifty and under. Dr Maroney, makes some sense out of 37 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: this for me? Please? Alright, this whole thing started around 38 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: there is a non governmental organization. What do you mean 39 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: this whole thing. This whole thing started for ten years 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: before that, and I saw people losing everything because of drugs. 41 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: So what things started? What what happened was a casual 42 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: affair between doctors and patients about prescribing opioids that became 43 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: out of control. What will you play? Stop talking like 44 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: a doctor, because most of us are just you know, 45 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: the common normal Joe doing our job, getting our children 46 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: to skill. What's an opioid? Are you talking about a heroine? Yes, 47 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: heroins do not prescribe heroine, but doctors prescribe opioid pain 48 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: pills like hydrocode on and now mommy understands. Okay, so 49 00:03:55,200 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: got it? Set OxyContin, narco and as people were liberally 50 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: prescribed in an unorganized fashion because medical schools don't really 51 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: teach the swell and hospitals are paralyzed. They don't want 52 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: to deal with this either, so the physicians were left 53 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: with very weak guidelines and just too many prescriptions for 54 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: opioids went into the public. Stop saying opioids and nobody 55 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: knows what you're saying. Well, okay, are you talking about 56 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: pain killers? Okay that I know what you're talking about. 57 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: Listen to this, Dr Maroney let's put this into perspective. 58 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: The body bags piling up drug deaths, opioid as you 59 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: insist on saying, opioid death now surpass the peak in 60 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: car crash death that was in nineteen two. That's the 61 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: year the most people in America died in car crashes, 62 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: AIDS death AIDS and AIDS related s, in n gun 63 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: deaths in nineteen And listen to this doctor, After twenty 64 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: years of combat in Vietnam, our country's casualties represented just 65 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: one third, one third of the death toll of ten 66 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: years of dope overdoses, opioid overdoses, car crashes, AIDS, gun 67 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: deaths Vietnam. For Pete's sake, I mean what nobody notices this? 68 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: Am I the only one that's noticing. Yesterday, Alan Duke, 69 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: the Duke is with us. Alan, remember that article we read? 70 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Tell me about it and it was in my home town. Yes, 71 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: I've been wanting to ask you what's going on in 72 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: making Georgia. They've had this incredible well. It also included 73 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: warn of Robbins the demon city go ahead. Yes it did. Uh. 74 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: The latest numbers out as of yesterday, twenty seven overdoses 75 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,239 Speaker 1: with people hospitalized and there have been I think six 76 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: deaths is the latest death the last days. It was 77 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: a bad batch of dope and all these people took 78 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: it and odd, I want to get back to Dr 79 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: William Moroney. Okay, doctor, this is way out of control. 80 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: How is it happening? You know? I just had knee 81 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: surgery and they gave me. Oh, I don't remember what 82 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: it was, but it was some kind of an oxy 83 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: oxy codo Naxi content related bottle of drugs. I was 84 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: so afraid of it. First I put it on the 85 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: top shelf of the medicine cabinet, and then I remember 86 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: that commercial where the children are getting the dope and 87 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: they look in the mirror in the bathroom mirror and 88 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: it's the parents fault because they find these drugs that 89 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: are left. I immediately flushed the whole thing down the 90 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: commode and threw away the bottle. How many days did 91 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: you get from your doctor? How many days? And I 92 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: took it one night and then I said what was that? 93 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: And um I looked at it. When I saw what 94 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: it was, I got so freaked out by it. I 95 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: think that's when I flushed it down the common threw 96 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: it away. Um, what do I think it was it 97 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: was an oxy something. Well, here's what happened for the 98 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: last ten years, for a good decade. Like robots, the 99 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: prescriptions that were written were automatical. You get thirty days. 100 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: Everybody thinks in thirty days. Yeah, I think it was days. 101 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: You do not need thirty days. I don't know who 102 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: taught thirty days. Maybe you need four, maybe you need five. 103 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: But when you stick the human body on pain killers 104 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: derived from opium for thirty days, it's dependent at the 105 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: end of the month. And that's I'm just a lawyer, Okay, 106 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. But when you just said opium, 107 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: and I'm screaming, what is an opioid? It's a derivative 108 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: of opium. Yes, And when I think of opium, I 109 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: think of you know, the Far East and drug houses. 110 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: I think of the Poppies and Wizard of Oz. I 111 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: think of all the people that I try to get 112 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: into rehab and dealers dealing it. All those visions crashed 113 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: together in my head. Opium derivatives are opioids, and what 114 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: are their clinical names? OxyContin, oxycoda and what else? Purpose it? Norco, Thailand, 115 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: all three vicodin, all of delauded. All of those chemicals 116 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: come from the mother morphine, and morphine is a natural 117 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: substance from the poppy. Now, when you are saying these 118 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: medical names or professional names, the street names would be 119 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: what oxy roxy, what else? Right? And uh you know, uh, 120 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: vitamin H for the high power, and norco and the 121 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: big d's for delauded, T threes for tail and all threes. 122 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: But what people got from their doctors kind of locked 123 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: their bodies into seeing it every day, feeling it every day, 124 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: needing it every day. And then the doctors were afraid 125 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: to say no, but the people would say they're in pain. 126 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, But wait a minute. The prescriptions and are 127 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: one aspect of the overdosing of America. But all these people, 128 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: like the twenty seven people that were hospitalized, that's not 129 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: from a doctor's prescription. What is that, Nancy, I can 130 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: tell you. In making Georgia, one of the concerns is 131 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: fake percocet. They've identified a fake version of the drug percocet, 132 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: which is being home manufactured not by a big pharmaceutical 133 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: company but by some some criminals someplace and sold on 134 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: the streets and it's killing people. But what were you 135 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: gonna say doctor, and and here's what's happened. Insurance companies 136 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: and restrictive laws have made it very difficult for doctors 137 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: to continue to prescribe. And everybody always has a friend 138 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: or there's somebody all always near that says, well, I 139 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: can get you some of these, and you skip the doctor, 140 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: you skip the pharmacy, and you start buying this stuff 141 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: off the street. Like um Alan was just saying, it's 142 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: called Cotton's kickers, oxy cotton ox ocs, Orange County os 143 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: oxies killers, beings. There are uh kill Billy heroin. There 144 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: are a million street names for this. Those are names 145 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: for oxyconton on the street. So tell me, Dr Moroney. 146 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: Doctors over prescribe. The patients come in and claim they're 147 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: still in pain, and they may be, they may be 148 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: imagining it, or they may just want the drugs. I mean, 149 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: look at um Jim Carey right now. He is embroiled 150 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: in a wrongful death suit filed by his mistresses, his 151 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: girlfriend's family. He was getting drugs under a different name 152 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: and she got them either he gave them to her 153 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: or she got them on her own and she died. Okay, 154 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:39,479 Speaker 1: So there's also the fake name using to get prescriptions, 155 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: uh in his case, So the whole world wouldn't know 156 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: Jim Carey was using a painkiller then, like Michael Jackson, 157 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: just to them, Yeah, and Nicole was all. They would 158 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: doctor's shop and pharmacy's shop, and they would get tons 159 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: and tons of these pills from all different pharmacies in 160 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: the pacies didn't know about each other. What about that, 161 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, Well, the pharmacies are supposed to be running reports. 162 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: The federal government has a system that they've encouraged all 163 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: the states to have software that a pharmacy or a 164 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: physician can look up a patient by name and birth 165 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: date and see two years worth of the last of 166 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: narcotics that they filled. These are called Prescription Drug Monitoring systems. 167 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: And every pharmacist and American can run a report, and 168 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: every physician can run a report. But doctors became lazy. 169 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: Pharmacists are pushed to see a lot more people, and 170 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: people don't take the time to get those reports. And 171 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: if you if mandated dry, those laws are coming, but 172 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: up until now they've been voluntary. As they put it 173 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: in place, mandating it is the answer. Mandating means if 174 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: you're going to write a narcotic. If you're going to 175 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: write a pain killer, you have to run a report 176 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: on that patient. If you're gonna fill a narcotic, if 177 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: you're going to fill a pain a pain killer drug, 178 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: as a pharmacist, you have to run that to see 179 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: that that patients not running a scam and running a 180 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: couple of different doctors. Let's talk about percoset too, which is, 181 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: as you say, a derivative of and it's an opiate 182 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: perks Paula's roxy cotton, Roxy's blue dynamite, uh five twelves. 183 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: That refers to the generic brand that prints a five 184 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: one two on a round white percocet pill. There's a 185 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: million names for this for these dangers. So it's from 186 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: two sources. People getting overprescribed one way or another, by 187 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: hook or by crook, and then, as Alan correctly pointed out, 188 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: other people producing it not through pharmaceutical measures, and getting 189 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: it on the street. So okay, would you agree so far, 190 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney of um, the problem off the street is 191 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: a market that was created because now patients don't want 192 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: to go to the doctors, so they got kicked out 193 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: of a doctor's office or they know they can't get 194 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: enough from a single doctor, so they turned to the street. 195 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: And in the old days one of the only other 196 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: options you had on the street was you just got 197 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: heroin from a dealer. But now these fake pills are 198 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: on the street and somebody will offer you heroin or 199 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: the fake pills, and everybody knows that heroin is being 200 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: laced with other chemicals and drugs like fentanyl, and people 201 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: are dying, So people are afraid to ask for heroin, 202 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: and they're going back to things that look like pharmaceuticals 203 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: but they're fake. And it's an entire market driven by 204 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: the drug cartels and the dealers to give people more 205 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: options so they don't have to go to the doctors. 206 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: But they're already dependent, they're already addicted. Right now, people 207 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: dying of drug overdoses and record numbers. This is not 208 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: just a slight increase. It is a very scary, a 209 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: horrific surge and drug o d s in our country. Now. 210 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: Many claim we should be more permissive and more tolerant, 211 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: more understanding about drug abuse, and I agree with that. 212 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: Uh you know, Dr Moroney, you and I have talked 213 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: about this off camera so many times. Like I have 214 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: told you in the past, I would come out of 215 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: one arrangement calendar with a hundred and fifty new felonies 216 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: on it. I'd be in there in the courtroom all day, 217 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: cutting deals, putting cases on the trial calendar, trying to 218 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: get as many people in rehab as I possibly could. 219 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: I come back to my office six seven o'clock at 220 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: night and there'll be a hooldy stack of a d 221 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: fifty more felonies to take to be disposed of. In 222 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: their jargon, not mine. There were not enough spots for 223 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: people to go to rehab. Dr Maroney. I would try 224 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: to to get into rehab, a state rehab where you 225 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: don't have to pay for it. Most people cannot pay 226 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: for it. You'd have to wait to either have to 227 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: let them out of jail, which then immediately go and 228 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: get back on drugs the minute they walked out of 229 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: the courthouse, or they have to wait in jail for 230 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: a spot in rehab. And sometimes the weight in jail 231 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: would be seven eight months before you could get in rehab, 232 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: and by that time you know they I didn't They're 233 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: doing a year of jail time. It just was just 234 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: there was no money, no resources, and very often the 235 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: only thing I could do is send somebody to jail 236 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: an addict. And I knew that wasn't the right answer, 237 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: but it was the only answer I had. Here's what 238 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: the new move is. We know there's not an off 239 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: addiction doctors, we know the primary care can't do this, 240 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: we know there's not enough rehab clinics. The federal government 241 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: started in the last administration and is going to continue 242 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: drug court services for rehabilitation directly out of the drug 243 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: courts supervised by the drug courts. Drug courts are one 244 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: of the answers to the future. The Drug court associations 245 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: will create guidelines that will say, if you had a 246 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: nonviolent crime and your crime was based in UH drug use, 247 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: and you are admitting that you're an addict and you 248 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: need help, it's cheaper to get you a job, apartment 249 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: and drug court services and treat you outside of the 250 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: jail than it is to pay all that money and 251 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: keep you locked up. Or you're not getting any help. Now, 252 00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: listen to this. According to Justice Department, two thousand people 253 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: died of drug o d s in America two thousand fifteen. 254 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: Over half of those death dr Maroney. Over half involved 255 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: the use of synthetic pain meds. Fentanyl and other opioid 256 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: drugs over half now. Early numbers two thousand sixteen show 257 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: the death attributed to that opioids fentanyl, oxyconton, et cetera 258 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: have now skyrocketed to above sixty thousand. Sixty thousand people dead. Now, 259 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: Tell me about fentanyl. Fentanyl is a drug that works 260 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: in the brain that is not directly related by chemical 261 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: structure to opium and morphine. It's it's synthetic, but it's 262 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: very powerful, and we've always used it in surgery and 263 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: in hospice patients. But the new way that fentyl is 264 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: being used by the drug cartels is that it's being 265 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: sprinkled into the heroine. This fentanyl comes from Mexico and 266 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: it comes from China, and it is supposed to be 267 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: super branding and making the heroin stronger, but the people 268 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: who sell it really aren't managing the quality control. And 269 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: if there's too much fentanyl in your heroine, your heart 270 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: stops and you die. Tell me what are the what 271 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: are fentanyl patches? Explain to me how those work. Fentanyl 272 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: being manufactured by an ethical pharmaceutical company is available in 273 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: a patch that you wear on your skin like a 274 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: band aid, and the best way to say it is 275 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: they kind of mixed the medicine in the glue and 276 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: it sits on the skin for seventy two hours or 277 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: three days, and the plastic on the outside prevents the 278 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: drug from touching their people, so it's absorbed into the 279 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: skin and for for three days or seventy two hours, 280 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: you don't have to take any pills. Well, the patch 281 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: was designed for people who were really sick and head cancer. 282 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna die and we're nauseated because they couldn't swallow, 283 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: or because they were sick. So the fentanyl patch was 284 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: not designed for an average person on the street. Let 285 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: me ask you about this. What do you make of 286 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: the declaim there's going to be an anti heroin vaccine 287 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: that the shot could prevent recovering addicts from relapsing by 288 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: blocking the high you get from heroin. What do you 289 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: make of that? Well, currently, we have UM a drug 290 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: that we inject once every twenty eight days. It's not 291 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: technically a vaccine. It's still a depot like a birth 292 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: control shot, but it's available for men and women, and 293 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's a shot in the buttocks every twenty 294 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,719 Speaker 1: eight days and it does stay in the system and 295 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: block the brain. That shot is a drug called neil 296 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: trek Zone, which is similar to methodone or some box zone, 297 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: but instead of being an active drug that activates the pathway, 298 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: it's a blocker and it's in the same family, but 299 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: it has the opposite action of morphine. And that nel 300 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: trek Zone shot was available as a pill for a 301 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: decade and the federal government saw it was extremely successful, 302 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: but then people would forget to fill the prescription, so 303 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: they encouraged the development of that shot that you show 304 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: up your doctor once a month, you get the shot, 305 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: and then you don't have to take the pills. Let 306 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: me ask you this. Have you seen the wave videos 307 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: and photos of parents past doubt in the car on 308 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: opioid addiction. It's like every other morning I look at 309 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: the daily mail and there's a new set of parents. 310 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: They're like asleep on the sidewalk or in their car 311 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: with the children in the back seat, oded on heroin 312 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: or an opioid. I mean, a daughter just recently live 313 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: streamed her parents on heroin binge when she got home 314 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: to find them passed out in front of the TV. 315 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: And that was shot of course in America showing the 316 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: parents slumped over and unresponsive. The daughter even starts kicking 317 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: her father to try to wake him up. It it's 318 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: it's awful, and that really brought it to the forefront. 319 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: A recent shot, a shot of a mom and a 320 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: dad passed out in the car with their little children 321 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: in the back seat, and they were high on I 322 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: guess heroine or a derivative of opioid. So what do 323 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: we do with these children that are suffering because of 324 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: their parents drug addiction? Just tell me what you think 325 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: we need to do now, Dr Maroney, what what is 326 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: your book? Your new book coming out? My My new 327 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: book will be out in about two weeks. It'll be 328 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: available on Amazon dot Com and awful web page that 329 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: we're finishing. The name of the book is American Narcan. 330 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: Narcan is the blocker. It's the drug that reverses overdose. 331 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: American Narcan is the first book in America on the 332 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: essentials of the lock zone and heroin fentinel associated mortality. 333 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: Narcan American back with us when if you can on 334 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: the day that comes out, I know you'll be busy. Now, 335 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: just give me something I can understand. Dummy down for me. 336 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: What can we do now? Give me your top three suggestions. 337 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: In America, the drug Narcan and the generic no lock 338 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: zone is available. This there's like forty three governors that 339 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: have assigned laws that say you can get this and 340 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: keep it in your house. And that is to fight 341 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: your addiction. It's not to fight the addiction, it's to 342 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: reverse the overdose. Ah. Yes, that's what they tried to 343 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: Is that what they tried to give to Prince, to 344 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: prince and when when that one night when he was 345 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: on the private plane. It is, but what happened is 346 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: you don't have to go to the hospital. Get that 347 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: now naran can be prescribed. Yes, it's exactly the same 348 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: drug though, Nancy, it's the same drug. But the thing 349 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: nar Can you can have in your home. You can 350 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: have it in your home for and iver does to 351 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: save your life. Okay, number two, Number two, all Americans 352 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: need to understand there are hundreds of thousands of people 353 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: who have had their brains hijacked by the these drugs, 354 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: and we need to get them help and have sympathy. 355 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: We cannot we cannot beat them up with stigma and 356 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: prejudice and jail jail. Okay, So understanding, got it? At 357 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: number three, break it down, doctor, break it down. We're 358 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: not all m d s like you. Not everybody had 359 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: the money or the seven years from med school. Okay, okay, 360 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: so talk down to me. And and the third and 361 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: final thing is we need to pressure our lawmakers to 362 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: get the funds to the people that are doing the treatment. 363 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: I will never forget when I first entered the District 364 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: Attorney's office, my elected d A in his wisdom, sent 365 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: me along with the lobbyists on anti crime issues to 366 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: the Georgia Legislature. I've never been hit on so many 367 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: times in my life by married people that cured me 368 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: from any desire of thinking I could make change in 369 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: the world through politics. So good luck with that funding, 370 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. But you know what, I'm also an optimist. 371 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: I hear you, and I agree with me. Renowned medical 372 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: examiner and author Dr William Maroney his new book coming out, 373 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: American nar Can. Did I get that right? I can't 374 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: believe you have all people didn't have some long subtitle 375 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: like Facts and Statistics regarding the Opioid deaths in America 376 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty nine to two. Anyway, American nar Can. 377 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: Let me stop right now, just a moment and thanks 378 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: someone very special for making today's podcast possible. Our partner, 379 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: our sponsor, Blue Apron, the number one fresh ingredient and 380 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: recipe delivery service in our country. Blue Apron's mission is 381 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: to make incredible home cooking accessible to everyone. Blue Apron 382 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: achieves this by supporting a more sustainable food system, setting 383 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: the very highest standards for ingredients. Now. Blue Apron has 384 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: established partnerships with over one hundred fifty local farms, fisheries, 385 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: and ranchers across the US, and because of that, seafood 386 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: is sourced sustainably understandards developed in partnership with the Monterey 387 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch upcoming meals. Listen to this warm 388 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: smoked trout and asparagus salad with fingerling potatoes and garlic croutons, 389 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: peach honey glazed chicken mash, sweet potatoes, collared greens, and 390 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: tie basul whoa Blue Apron. Thank you for making this 391 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: podcast and so many others possible. Okay, back to the story. 392 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: We are being joined by one of my favorite people. 393 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: She's beautiful, she's talented, but most important, she is brilliant 394 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: and committed with me. Is Robin Gail Bund and she 395 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: is the president of I call it a think tank. 396 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: It's Fair Health. They are nonprofit, they don't owe anybody, 397 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: Nobody affects their opinion, and they are sought after from 398 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: entities all over the world. They are think tank about 399 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: health issues. That's all they do. They have just released 400 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: one of the leading studies regarding opioids. Robin. I just 401 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for making time to join us 402 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: on crime stories. Fair Health has issued a series of, 403 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: as you say, white papers on the opioid crisis. It 404 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: is a crisis. You started last July with the opioid 405 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: crisis among the privately ensured, the opioid abuse epidemic as 406 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: documented in private claims data. That's a mouthful. Then September 407 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: you published The Impact of the Opioid Crisis on the 408 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: health Care System, a study of privately build services. Now 409 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: your third in the series, peeling back the Curtain on 410 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: regional variation in the opioid crisis, spotlight on five key 411 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: urban centers and their respective states. Wow, okay, that was 412 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: a lot to take in, so I want to focus 413 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: on the paper that is coming out. What makes this 414 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: white paper different from the other two? Well, thank you 415 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: for for your interest. In this topic, which is a 416 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: critical one. Um. As you probably know, Fair Health houses 417 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: the largest private claims collection in the country, over twenty 418 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: three billion records for a hundred and fifty million people. 419 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: Of course the identified and while we okay, hold on, 420 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: let me break down down to regular people talk okay, 421 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: because you're like warp speed ahead of me and Alan Okay, 422 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: I think what she just said, Alan of us that 423 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: they procure and gather millions, billions, yeah, of health claims 424 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: and from that they don't care who you are, what 425 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: your name is. They're trying to deduce or figure out 426 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: what's happening health wise in our country, you know, Robin, 427 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: Like in Great Britain, Uh, everything is socialized. The government 428 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: has their fingers in everything, so they can very easily 429 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: track what's happening health wise. In fact, the other day, Alan, 430 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: I read how I v F raises your likelihood of 431 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: getting cancer by like thirty of varying cancer because of 432 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: a britt study. Because it's socialized, Fair Health is doing 433 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: that for the U S. Sorry, I just had to 434 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: break it down to regular people to okay, Guy Robins, sorry, Oh, 435 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: of course. So we have this enormous ocean of claims. 436 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: So what we try to do is, in effect, take 437 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: a glass bottom boat out and out on that ocean 438 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: and really try to reveal trends that we're seeing. And 439 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: you're right. We issued two earlier papers on the opioid crisis, 440 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: but those were at the national level UM and so 441 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: what we really want to do now instead of really 442 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: being out on that glass bottom boat scuba dive more 443 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: deeply and really looked at regional variation in the issue 444 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: involving opioid abuse and dependence. And what we saw with 445 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: dramatic differences in what's really happening under the hood in 446 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: these different states. You know, I can listen to you 447 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: talk all day. I really could. The way you compared 448 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: to gliding across the statistics statistics in our country and 449 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: glass bottom boat two deep diving in five states. You 450 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: picked opioid epidemic and we're talking about um oxycontent, oxycode codeown, percocet, heroine, 451 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: of course, any poppy opium derivative. California, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas. 452 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: How did you pick those five We chose those five 453 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,479 Speaker 1: states because they host the five most populous cities, and 454 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: by choosing the largest cities in the country and their 455 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: accompanying states. We thought that that would be the best 456 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: way to really provide a rich, detailed understanding of what 457 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: was happening in connection with this growing crisis. Guys, stay 458 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: with me, stay with us on this. The lives of 459 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: your children, your neighbors, your family, your relatives may depend 460 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: on what you are about to hear. Robin, I know 461 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: the findings to keep by surprise. I was surprised by 462 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: a number of things that came out of this sort 463 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: of deep down dive into this ocean. And one thing 464 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: I was surprised by was that the largest number of 465 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: procedures in both rural and urban settings were associated with 466 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: those age fifty one and older. What what what did 467 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: you just say in regular people to Some people have 468 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: associated the opioid crisis with really younger, younger people under 469 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: age thirty five, or millennials, if you will. But what 470 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: we're seeing is healthcare claims being submitted in connection with 471 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: those fifty one and older. And what that might suggest 472 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: is that this is really again getting to the heart 473 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: of some prescription patterns in the medical community, because it's 474 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: that age group that often is obtaining various procedures orthopedic surgery, 475 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So really that's an alarm 476 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: bell to look at that group of individuals and really 477 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: try to understand why they are outdistancing all of the other. 478 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: Now you look at the five most common opioid related 479 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: procedures for each state and the five pid realited procedures 480 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: that represented the highest expenditures. What did you learn, Well, 481 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 1: we learned that every state is very different and that 482 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: raises really interesting questions. So, for example, if you look 483 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: at the top five procedures in all the states, only 484 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: one code was on all of each of those five 485 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: states list, which was related to a drug screening test. 486 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: But in California, for example, the most common procedures were 487 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: associated with intens of outpatient services, whereas Illinois they seem 488 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: to rely heavily on a medication called maltrek zone, which 489 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: is part of their treatment protocol. New York, for example, 490 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: is known for methodome maintenance program that was its most 491 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: common And then you see in Illinois, um, I mean 492 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. In Texas they have primarily laboratory testings greening 493 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: as opposed to group therapy, intense about patients, or any 494 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: of those other services that might have surfaced in the 495 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: other states. So what it's interesting are those differences due 496 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: to different philosophies of the different states and the way 497 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: they want to treat Is it due to the reimbursement 498 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: practices of the insurance industry? Is it due to access 499 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: or the lack of access to some of those services. 500 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: And why it's so critical to look at this snapshot 501 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: in time is now to think about what happens after 502 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: this photograph was taken. Now that we know that there 503 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: are such differences in these various states, what are the 504 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: outcomes of these different protocols. Who's relapsing, who's having overdoses 505 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: after going through these treatment regimens. These are laboratories in 506 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: real time that we can now start looking at and 507 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: public health officials can start looking at. And importantly, as 508 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: you know, as you open up the newspaper every day, 509 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: there may be of abuses going on in different states 510 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: in the way in which people are being screened or 511 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: tested or administered medications. So it's it's important to both 512 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: try to create impactful treatments and interventions, but also try 513 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: to understand what's not working. What Robin is saying is 514 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: so critical because we're not talking about selling crack cocaine 515 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: or a doper showing up at your door at three 516 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: am to give you a bag of marijuana. We're talking 517 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: about open ord related deaths. People oh ding young and 518 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: old off heroin op M related products. Like what your 519 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: pharmacist and doctors are giving you oxycoda and oxycontent, uh percoset. 520 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I just had knee surgery. They gave me 521 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: thirty days of something robin oxycoda and roxy conton. I 522 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: took one one night. My husband get it was like 523 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: the size of a tiny, tiny, tiny little pill. And 524 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: the next night, I'm like, what was that you gave me? 525 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: And I looked at it. I saw it was an 526 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: oxy something. I'm like, uh uhm. I was afraid to 527 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: even put it in the medicine cabinet because I thought 528 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: the twins might find it. We went and dumped it. 529 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't care if my knee hurts. If 530 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: they ate one of these, dear Lord in Heaven, and 531 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: it has prescribed medicine, people think, oh, the doctor prescribed it, 532 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: it's fine. It's not fine because you get hooked on it. 533 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: So what are the major points? Rob and you expect 534 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: readers to take away from your latest study. From this 535 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: latest study is to show that this is an issue 536 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: that is evolving daily, and also for people to be 537 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: very mindful exactly what you just said, if you are 538 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: coming out of her procedure, to really question your medical professional, 539 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 1: if you are being given prescriptions for things that thailan, 540 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: all other types of pain management read amans could be 541 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: just as effective. It's also important to recognize that to 542 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: address issues with your insurance company, to see to what 543 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: extent if you are in the midst of some type 544 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: of opioid abuse disorder, to check to see what kind 545 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: of reimbursement and benefits are available to you through your insurer, 546 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: And to also really um address the fact that each 547 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: state is really moving and evolving in real time, and 548 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: that it's important to um understand that illicit drug distribution 549 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: channels may be impacting the type of approaches that again 550 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: state biases may be doing that as well, and that 551 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: it's important for these mini laboratories to help the country 552 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: design effective responses and create off ramps to this epidemic. Wow, 553 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, I am so knocked out by you and 554 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: by fair health. I never realized fair health existed until 555 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: my former ep Deemsicoli told me about it, and I 556 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: started following you and following fair Health and your studies, 557 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: and they are incredible. Just think about it. Millions and 558 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: millions of health claims across our country, billions, and they 559 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: take all of that information and they pick a topic 560 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: like opioid addiction and what it's doing to our country, 561 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: to our children, to our teens. Are high school students, 562 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: college students older than that that are getting these prescriptions 563 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 1: after surgeries or for pain, and then everything goes sideways 564 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: and people are dropping like flies. I mean, Alan, what 565 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: about those last studies at showing sixty thousand people dead 566 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen. I'm looking right now at fair 567 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: Health chart. This looks like it started around two thousand 568 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: thirteen and then it just the graph just goes skyrocketing 569 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: up to and it's sort of leveled off in the 570 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: last year according to as far as insurance claims. This 571 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: is a question I've got San Antonio, Texas. What's going 572 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: on there? Robin? You're you're reporting a hundred and forty 573 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: one thousand percent increase and in these addiction treatment claims 574 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: in the last ten years, hundred forty one percent. Where 575 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: does that happen. Why so opioid use as revealed, and 576 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: the claims also includes sentinel and it's been understood that 577 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: within the San Antonio region there are some distribution networks 578 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: there that should probably in our already catching the attention 579 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: of both enforcement officials and public health officials. Yeah, I 580 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: found that fascinating that, for example, in New York City, 581 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: which constitutes of the state population, only of the opioid 582 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: related claims were present there were San Antonio, which has 583 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: only in its surrounding area has only six percent of 584 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: the population, accounts for six of the claims within that state. 585 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: So yes, that's why the data are so important. They 586 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: can really shed a light and allow uh, sort of 587 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 1: the canaries in the coal mines to surface, and to 588 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: allow attention and resources to be directed to the geographic 589 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: regions that are really in some ways screaming out for 590 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: some intervention. Robin, listen to this. People are now designated 591 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: no axon carriers instead of designated drivers when partying no 592 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: axon is the anti opioid. It's it's I think what 593 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,439 Speaker 1: they tried to give prints on that private plane when 594 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 1: he was odying on prescribed drugs allegedly just very shortly 595 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: before his death, they gave him the antidote to o D. 596 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: Now it says saying, hey, you be the designated driver, 597 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: don't drink tonight. They're like, hey, are you carrying the axon? 598 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean that's crazy. Absolutely in some ways an effect, 599 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: everyone is being enlisted to be a foot soldier in 600 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,759 Speaker 1: this army. Whereas naloxon used to be um you could 601 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: be found to be violative of a law for administering 602 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: NLAX and people were afraid to administer it because they 603 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,240 Speaker 1: felt they're giving it to someone taking an illegal drug. 604 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: They will be found in trouble as well. States like 605 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: Illinois and a number of other states are passing laws 606 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: that in effect immunize people or make it, you know, 607 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: perfectly legal to administer that drug to stop someone from 608 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: having an opioid overdose. It's almost a recognition that this 609 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: is becoming at such an epidemic proportion, all of us 610 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: have to be deputized in trying to aid people from 611 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: really dying from an overdose or having some acute incidents. 612 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: So it's a fascinating social experiment that's going on in 613 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,840 Speaker 1: real time right now with us the President of Fair 614 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: Health doing everything in her power to save lives in 615 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: our country. Robin, You're awesome. Thank you for being with us. 616 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,359 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off, goodbye friend,