Speaker 1: Welcome to zero. I'm akshatrati. This week more coal, less gas,
Speaker 1: and the same old energy crisis. My guest today is
Speaker 1: Jennifer Morgan, Germany's Special Envoy for climate change. In the
Speaker 1: world of climate diplomats, she stands alongside John Kerry of
Speaker 1: the US and she A Genoa of China as one
Speaker 1: of the most important figures. Germany is the world's fourth
Speaker 1: largest economy and the largest economy an emateur in Europe.
Speaker 1: When she was appointed as the country's first climate Envoy
Speaker 1: in March last year, Jennifer became the face of Germany's
Speaker 1: international climate negotiations. She has a unique background. From twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty twenty two, she was the leader of Greenpeace,
Speaker 1: an organization known for its environmental stunts and political pressure campaigns.
Speaker 1: They disrupted ail drilling the coast of Greenland, blocked Russian
Speaker 1: whaling ships, and scaled Toronto's ceantower. Now she has moved
Speaker 1: into government and inherited a mess. After decades of cultivating
Speaker 1: deeper economic ties with Russia through energy imports and hoping
Speaker 1: it would create a more peaceful world, Germany has been
Speaker 1: proven wrong. Alongside invading Ukraine, Russia exploited Germany's over reliance
Speaker 1: on gas and turned energy into a weapon. Denmark, Poland,
Speaker 1: and Sweden say they believe leaks in two major Russian
Speaker 1: gas pipelines to Europe are the results of sabotage. Germany's
Speaker 1: chance to all of shots has unveiled a two hundred
Speaker 1: billion euro plan to guard the German economy against the
Speaker 1: effects of soaring energy prices. In this hardware store near Berlin,
Speaker 1: they're already getting ready for the cold season. Customers aren't
Speaker 1: rushing to buy fans, but anything that'll keep them warm
Speaker 1: this winter. Germany is now in a very difficult position.
Speaker 1: It has been forced to rapidly wean itself off Russian
Speaker 1: ass and find replacement to keep its manufacturing economy going.
Speaker 1: Before the war, Russia provided Germany with fifty two percent
Speaker 1: of its gas. Since September, it provides none. This has
Speaker 1: come at enormous cost to German citizens and the planet.
Speaker 1: Germany has had to pay through the nose for imports
Speaker 1: of liquefied natural gas, out competing poorer nations. It has
Speaker 1: built new energy terminals and reopened enough coal plants to
Speaker 1: power five million homes. Many are not happy. Protests erupted
Speaker 1: in January near Dusseldorf around the expansion of a coal
Speaker 1: mine that produces lignite, the dirtiest form of coal. Greta
Speaker 1: Thunberg was briefly detained when she joined the demonstrations. This
Speaker 1: is all playing in the background as Jennifer pursues delicate
Speaker 1: climate negotiations. I sat down with her at the World
Speaker 1: Economic Forum in Davos to ask whether the war has
Speaker 1: put a dent in Germany's climate ambitions, how the country
Speaker 1: can continue to play a role as a climate leader
Speaker 1: while increasing coal use, and if trade tensions with the
Speaker 1: US are spurring more climate competition. Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thanks great to be here. You are now germany Special
Speaker 1: enoy on climate, But immediately before taking on this role,
Speaker 1: you were the head of Greenpeace. You were an activist.
Speaker 1: Now you're a diplomat. How has it been moving from
Speaker 1: one to the other and how does what you did
Speaker 1: as an activist feed into your work as a climate envoy. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess I consider myself and many other diplomats activists diplomats,
Speaker 1: because what you learn when you are working as an
Speaker 1: activist or as a campaigner in NGO, you learn how
Speaker 1: to have clear goals, you learn how to communicate, you
Speaker 1: learn how to build coalitions, and all of those things
Speaker 1: are incredibly important also as a climate envoy. When you
Speaker 1: took on the role, Germany was at a moment of transition.
Speaker 1: It had elected a new government which had the Green
Speaker 1: Party as a partner, and just before getting into government
Speaker 1: it had set a twenty forty five net zero goal.
Speaker 1: But of course in the last twelve months things have
Speaker 1: changed drastically, and that's because of the war. Since the
Speaker 1: war began, Germany has built new llergy facilities, revived goal
Speaker 1: facilities that would do to be shut down, and is
Speaker 1: being incredibly high prices for the gas that it's importing
Speaker 1: out competing many poorer nations who can't afford that gas anymore.
Speaker 1: So how can you continue to argue that Germany is
Speaker 1: a leader on climate action because there's a whole other
Speaker 1: part of the story, and that story is the largest
Speaker 1: piece of energy legislation and the history of Germany. That
Speaker 1: is scaling up renewables to eighty percent by twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: That is the continued work to recently in North Wine Westphilia,
Speaker 1: to phase out coal by twenty thirty. That is a
Speaker 1: climate law that is binding that will keep us to
Speaker 1: all of those targets. And that is also the fact
Speaker 1: that we have phased out Russian fossil fuels. Fifty five
Speaker 1: percent of German gas imports were from Russia, and that
Speaker 1: we will in the end use less gas and phase
Speaker 1: it out earlier than we would have before the Russian
Speaker 1: War of aggression. So what I understand and see in
Speaker 1: this new government in this moment of climate crisis and
Speaker 1: energy security, is that we're thinking it together. There have
Speaker 1: been short term emergency things that have had to happen,
Speaker 1: like having coal in reserve if needed to get us
Speaker 1: through the winter, and those have been painful decisions to make,
Speaker 1: but they will be They don't question our climate targets.
Speaker 1: Those are set, they're legally binding. And the new emissions
Speaker 1: trading too, that just has been passed through the European
Speaker 1: Union I think will make it even more likely that
Speaker 1: that can be met earlier. Now. As the head of
Speaker 1: green Peace, you know, optics matter. One of the things
Speaker 1: that Greenpeace does well continues to do well, is organize
Speaker 1: spectacular protests which bring attention of world governments, world media
Speaker 1: to tell a story that really needs to be told,
Speaker 1: and at this moment as we speak, their protests taking
Speaker 1: place in Germany. Who gains the expansion of a coal
Speaker 1: mine in Luzert. Greta Tunberg was detained at the protest
Speaker 1: and was carried off by police dressed in riot gear.
Speaker 1: Those images are stunning. First, do you wish you were
Speaker 1: able to protest with them? Well, I think that there is. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: we live in a democratic country where that kind of
Speaker 1: engagement and peaceful protest is possible and is a very
Speaker 1: important part of our national conversation. And I've participated in
Speaker 1: many protests and demonstrations in my time, and I think
Speaker 1: that the voices of youth in our country that in
Speaker 1: a way demonstrate the seriousness of the situation that we're in.
Speaker 1: Their level of desperation, of anger, of wanting things to
Speaker 1: happen more quickly is a very legitimate one and one
Speaker 1: that we take very seriously. Another way to as our question,
Speaker 1: what has Germany done since you became an own way
Speaker 1: that you would have protested if you were still in
Speaker 1: your last role at Greenpeace. I mean, I think I'm
Speaker 1: now in a new role. So, like I said, peaceful
Speaker 1: protest and human rights and democratic systems are fundamental, and
Speaker 1: in the past I have been part of that community.
Speaker 1: Now I'm very grateful and thankful that I live in
Speaker 1: a country where that is the case, and those rights
Speaker 1: for peaceful protest need to be maintained. I think that
Speaker 1: it's a challenge we live in right now. We are
Speaker 1: in a climate crisis. I think the government is working
Speaker 1: to do everything that it can to phase out COLE
Speaker 1: more quickly while also dealing with this Russian war of aggression,
Speaker 1: and that is hard, It is not easy at all,
Speaker 1: But I think it's also really important and images do
Speaker 1: matter about you know, the over fifty percent of households
Speaker 1: in Germany and have renewable energy, the fact that we're
Speaker 1: moving more quickly than anyone else in getting those moving
Speaker 1: and accelerating that pace and scale of change, and then
Speaker 1: sharing that learning with other countries so that they can
Speaker 1: learn from the mistakes and the challenges that Germany has
Speaker 1: had in balancing all of these different things, keeping the
Speaker 1: climate crisis and the acceleration of it as front and
Speaker 1: center as we possibly can now. One small mover protest
Speaker 1: that you did make was last summer you were critical
Speaker 1: of Chancellor Shoals when he pushed for the G seven
Speaker 1: to allow new gas investments globally. How did that go
Speaker 1: inside the German government? Well, you know, the G seven
Speaker 1: I think made some decisions I think again working to
Speaker 1: try and get clarity on that pledge to not fund
Speaker 1: have public funding go to any fossil fuel new fossil
Speaker 1: fuel developments. You know, we have a robust coalition government
Speaker 1: in Germany and that means that partners speak with each
Speaker 1: other and worked fine solutions. So it went fine. Well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Ellen, though, you said that climate goals remain
Speaker 1: as they are both for twenty thirty and four twenty
Speaker 1: forty five. However, we also know, you know, when fossil
Speaker 1: fuel assets are built, there can be a real risk
Speaker 1: of lock in because capital, once spent, would like its returns,
Speaker 1: and so do you fear that the LLENG terminals that
Speaker 1: are being brought in would lead to that kind of
Speaker 1: lock in. I think that we have to remain vigilant.
Speaker 1: That's not the intent right now of this government and
Speaker 1: the work. Not only the intent is also to be
Speaker 1: accelerating the pace and scale for green hydrogen to be
Speaker 1: moving and working with, for example, countries in the Nordic region,
Speaker 1: I mean Denmark, Norway, Sweden, etc. They're to be scaling
Speaker 1: up their renewables in order for that infrastructure then to
Speaker 1: be adapted to that. But we know that we always
Speaker 1: remain have to remain vigilant and make sure and have
Speaker 1: transparency and accountability about what decisions are taken and making
Speaker 1: sure that they're stuck to coming up to more international matters.
Speaker 1: The US passed the biggest climate build, the Inflation Reduction Act,
Speaker 1: last year, and that's ramped up treat tensions between the
Speaker 1: US and Europe. Ursula wonder Lane said at Davos that
Speaker 1: the EU should increase funding for clean tech, should the
Speaker 1: EU match the level of subsidies that the US is
Speaker 1: offering two companies investing in clean tech. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: first of all, it is excellent that the United States
Speaker 1: has a law that moves forward on renewable energy, on
Speaker 1: bringing down greenhouse gas emissions, and that is to be welcomed.
Speaker 1: It's been a long time coming, and I think that
Speaker 1: we all have hoped throughout the years that once the
Speaker 1: US does that, it will move quickly and it will
Speaker 1: shift things. And I think that's what's starting to happen.
Speaker 1: And so I think what you're seeing in Europe and
Speaker 1: in our discussions also with the United States, which have
Speaker 1: been good, is how that then can create a race
Speaker 1: to accelerate the research and development, driving down the cost
Speaker 1: the technologies that are needed. What that looks like specifically
Speaker 1: within Europe. I think that's what we'll be working on
Speaker 1: in the coming months, whether it be around the Raw
Speaker 1: Materials Act, whether it be around clean tech. But that's
Speaker 1: the conversation that we're having with the US and driving
Speaker 1: that forward. And you know, I think Europe has incredible
Speaker 1: assets and vision and opportunity for companies and for that growth.
Speaker 1: One thing we've been hearing here from energy CEOs, from
Speaker 1: clean tech venture capital funding bodies is that for them,
Speaker 1: the US has become so much more attractive a because
Speaker 1: it's the US and it's the largest economy, be that
Speaker 1: these subsidies are backed by the US government, seen as
Speaker 1: a completely reliable source of money to get from, and
Speaker 1: see that the regulatory nature of energy industry in general
Speaker 1: is much easier to navigate in the US than it
Speaker 1: is in Europe, which is a market made up of
Speaker 1: twenty seven countries. Against those forces, do you see that
Speaker 1: we are entering an era where there's going to be
Speaker 1: more competition for climate solutions than collaboration. I think that
Speaker 1: there will be both. I think that there will be collaboration.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're looking around, what are the standards
Speaker 1: that need to be set for socially inclusive, environmentally sound
Speaker 1: green hydrogen, I think that's an area that needs to
Speaker 1: have collaboration to make sure that benefits you especially look
Speaker 1: at not only in developing countries, indigenous lands, that type
Speaker 1: of thing. But I also think having a competition to
Speaker 1: drive things faster and bigger scale is not a bad thing.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a very active discussion now
Speaker 1: in Europe about how we can do that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like game on. Let's go, let's make
Speaker 1: use this moment in a way to drive things to
Speaker 1: move faster and bigger. The US and Europe were at
Speaker 1: very different levels when it came to acting on climate
Speaker 1: change only twenty four months ago. The US did not
Speaker 1: have this bill. It was years of dragging its feet
Speaker 1: trying to reduce emissions. It still consumes a lot of coal,
Speaker 1: it has a lot of oil and gas reserves in
Speaker 1: its backyard, and so Europe looked like the place where
Speaker 1: the transition will happen faster. But now with what has
Speaker 1: happened with the biggest US climate bill, executives say we
Speaker 1: are not so sure because Europe moves slowly. Is there
Speaker 1: something being done to speed things up to ensure that
Speaker 1: Europe can compete as clean tech industries grow in other
Speaker 1: parts of the world. I guess I wouldn't share your
Speaker 1: characterization because I think that Europe, through the fit for
Speaker 1: fifty five plan, through the emissions trading system that has
Speaker 1: been in place for many years, through the renewable energy
Speaker 1: directives that are there, through the driving of emissions target
Speaker 1: of at least fifty five by twenty thirty, and many
Speaker 1: other measures, I think has been setting the standards and
Speaker 1: I think is better prepared than others because of the
Speaker 1: fact that we're thinking it through on so many different levels. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's good to have incentives coming in a sensives alone
Speaker 1: is the experience and what's shown in the literature is
Speaker 1: not adequate to drive the types of reductions we need.
Speaker 1: We are talking about a having of global emissions in
Speaker 1: seven years, and for that you need to throw every
Speaker 1: tool in the toolbooks that you have, and there I
Speaker 1: think that the different European measures that are there and
Speaker 1: have been tested in a way, it's a mature debate
Speaker 1: that has learned a lot already. Can things move faster, Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and that's why there was a breakthrough recently with Robert Habeck,
Speaker 1: Minister of Economy and Climate in Germany, working to have
Speaker 1: a faster time frame on building wind turbines in Germany.
Speaker 1: I think we have in Europe a lot that other
Speaker 1: countries can learn from because we've had to accelerate the
Speaker 1: learning process. You know, we're in regular dialogue with the US,
Speaker 1: but we're also finding that as Germany and Europe as
Speaker 1: a whole, there's so much curiosity and entrance to work
Speaker 1: with us from emerging economies because we've gone through it,
Speaker 1: because we know what it's like to have a grid
Speaker 1: with forty five percent renewable energy in it, because we've
Speaker 1: had to build up that market, and because we're also
Speaker 1: working to keep our energy intensive industries at home. So
Speaker 1: I think it's a healthy debate. But I think we
Speaker 1: know from what scientists tell us and our own experience
Speaker 1: that you need actually a whole number of different tools
Speaker 1: and policies and measures and incentives as part of that
Speaker 1: to be able to address this also across all sectors.
Speaker 1: After the break, I asked Jennifer how Germany will meet
Speaker 1: its overseas climate commitments and whether fossil fuel interests are derelncoll.
Speaker 1: One of the roles that you have as representing Germany
Speaker 1: on the international stage is to stand for Germany's contribution
Speaker 1: towards international finance. Now, Germany is supposed to contribute as
Speaker 1: much as six billion euros each year towards this hundred
Speaker 1: billion dollar fund, but so far the government in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one spent only five point three billion. The gap
Speaker 1: is small relative to other countries, but it is real.
Speaker 1: What is it that you're doing to make sure that
Speaker 1: Germany delivers on its promise? Well, the actually we overachieved
Speaker 1: our target in twenty twenty one because at that point
Speaker 1: it was four and now the Chancellor has made clear
Speaker 1: that we want to move to six and that half
Speaker 1: of that finance should go to adaptation as well, which
Speaker 1: has been a key request of developing countries. What I
Speaker 1: am doing, I think to put it in the broader context,
Speaker 1: meaning one hundred billion is essential, and I worked with
Speaker 1: Minister Guilbo from Canada to try and look at, okay,
Speaker 1: what more can be doing on that in the lead
Speaker 1: up to the COP But what happened, I think at
Speaker 1: the COP and across the board is this recognition of
Speaker 1: the need for reform of international financial institutions. We have
Speaker 1: institutions that were built after the Second World War. They
Speaker 1: are no longer fit for purpose, and Germany is working
Speaker 1: to bring forward proposals into the World Bank and other
Speaker 1: financial institutions to change that so that issues of the
Speaker 1: debt crisis, issues of the gaps between rich and poor,
Speaker 1: the food crisis, the climate crisis are actually much more
Speaker 1: central in how those institutions are working. So that's one
Speaker 1: area where I'm active, where Germany is active with partners
Speaker 1: to try and work that through. And how positive are
Speaker 1: you on that reform? Is bring meeting coming up in April.
Speaker 1: But these are bodies that haven't changed all that much
Speaker 1: in a very long time. At COBB there was a
Speaker 1: broad agreement where every country signed up to wanting a
Speaker 1: reform of multi lateral development banks. How positive value it
Speaker 1: will happen and soon Well, I'm positive that there is
Speaker 1: a greater level of attention and understanding of the problem
Speaker 1: than there has ever been, and I think therefore also
Speaker 1: a greater level of accountability and expectation and commitment of
Speaker 1: governments to work towards it. I think we have to
Speaker 1: work to make sure that it is a transformational change,
Speaker 1: not just an incremental change. And that is a conversation
Speaker 1: to have with our partners around the world, because it
Speaker 1: only works, you know, when we all come together with
Speaker 1: that vision as we move forward in these just transitions
Speaker 1: that need to occur around the world, whether it be
Speaker 1: in the energy sector, in the agricultural sector, that matching
Speaker 1: those transitions with the financing packages and the financing tools
Speaker 1: that are required is absolutely fundamental. And so I think
Speaker 1: it's a moment, and I think it comes from the
Speaker 1: fact of the COVID pandemic and the situation the direction
Speaker 1: of so many developing countries that it's no longer possible
Speaker 1: to look away. Sticking to COUP twenty seven, you had
Speaker 1: the loss and damage fund agreed upon. There's no sum
Speaker 1: attached to it. Do you see actual numbers this year
Speaker 1: at COP twenty eight. Well, I think, first of all,
Speaker 1: I think it was a major breakthrough for the most
Speaker 1: vulnerable countries that after thirty years, their demand was met,
Speaker 1: And I think that the European Union played actually an
Speaker 1: important role in meeting that hand, that was reached out
Speaker 1: and asked for, and so now you know, we have
Speaker 1: to get that fund as part of a bigger mosaic.
Speaker 1: We can't forget the mosaic because what that means is, yes,
Speaker 1: there needs to be and will be a fund for
Speaker 1: loss and damage. But actually the commitment was bigger than that.
Speaker 1: The commitment was to look at all the different financial
Speaker 1: institutions in that mosaic or ecosystem to make sure that
Speaker 1: there is coverage for loss and damage across the board.
Speaker 1: And so I think this year the commitment was to
Speaker 1: get that moving, to get that fund established, and then
Speaker 1: I think the big question of who pays is also
Speaker 1: a big part of that question. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: quite clear from the cop conclusions that it's not only
Speaker 1: industrialized countries and it's not only countries. It's clear that
Speaker 1: developed countries need to play a leading role. But working
Speaker 1: that through is a big part of the negotiation as well.
Speaker 1: So whether or not numbers by the end of this year,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I think we need to see what
Speaker 1: the fund looks like, but certainly I mean Germany, as
Speaker 1: of January, the Global Shield is up and running, which
Speaker 1: was an initiative with the Vulnerable twenties. So there is
Speaker 1: a lot happening already. You said not countries, are you
Speaker 1: thinking of private institutions contributing? Well, I think there's different
Speaker 1: ideas that have been kind of put out there for sources.
Speaker 1: The Secretary General, i think, has suggested a windfall profit
Speaker 1: tax on fossil fuel companies. Prime Minister Motley has also
Speaker 1: put out some ideas on that. You there are older
Speaker 1: ideas that have been out there forever about tobin taxes
Speaker 1: and financial transaction and all of these different things. So
Speaker 1: there's advocates looking at private jet tax I mean, so
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but it's clear that
Speaker 1: if you look at the damages, we haven't really talked
Speaker 1: about the why we're doing all of this. I mean,
Speaker 1: the climate crisis is ravaging through countries and the costs
Speaker 1: are immense. They are immense, and so both getting the
Speaker 1: intergovernmental and the accountability moving through these types of funds
Speaker 1: is important, but then also looking at how they can
Speaker 1: be filled. COP twenty seven happened in Egypt a fossil
Speaker 1: fuel exporter. COP twenty eight will happen in the United
Speaker 1: Arab Emirates. A big fossil fuel exporter. The head of
Speaker 1: COP twenty eight is the head of the state oil company.
Speaker 1: Will two years of fossil fuel friendly COP presidencies delay
Speaker 1: climate action? Well, I mean, I think it's clear that
Speaker 1: COP twenty eight has to have a focus on emissions
Speaker 1: reductions and mitigation, as we say, because we know we
Speaker 1: have seven years to have global emissions and I think
Speaker 1: that the COP president understands that, he understands the science
Speaker 1: has an immense opportunity to be driving things in the
Speaker 1: direction that are needed, as a tremendous opportunity to have
Speaker 1: a very inclusive COP with civil society, experts, business contributing
Speaker 1: to that, and that's how we will engage with them.
Speaker 1: So really, at the end of the day, each of
Speaker 1: these COP presidencies are looked at and judged by the
Speaker 1: outcomes that come at the end. And so we're working
Speaker 1: for a COP where we have, you know, a major
Speaker 1: shift on the just transition and the phase out of
Speaker 1: fossil fuels and scale up of renewables, set of finance outcomes,
Speaker 1: adaptation of courses. But if we just look at the
Speaker 1: last few hours at COP twenty seven, there was clearly
Speaker 1: the Loss and Damage Fund on the one side, which
Speaker 1: was a progress that every party wanted, and then there
Speaker 1: was a demand from the EU and other progressive countries
Speaker 1: that that'd be met with mitigation, which in the text,
Speaker 1: but in the end, because the Loss and Damage Fund
Speaker 1: was so important that EU had to tone down or
Speaker 1: walk away from its resistance, we didn't even really get
Speaker 1: a statement at the very end what happened. I think
Speaker 1: that the Executive Vice President Timmerman's spoke as well at
Speaker 1: the end, and he said that the EU had made
Speaker 1: the decision to support the full COP and not walk
Speaker 1: away from it because we understood how important this loss
Speaker 1: and damage fund was for the most vulnerable countries, and
Speaker 1: this fund needs to be for those most vulnerable countries,
Speaker 1: and that we were unsatisfied with the results on mitigation,
Speaker 1: and that to me puts additional pressure on COP twenty
Speaker 1: eight to fill that gap. Sure, we maintained the one
Speaker 1: point five goal and the types of emission reductions that
Speaker 1: are needed in the text. Yes, there is new language
Speaker 1: for renewable energy in that text, but the you know
Speaker 1: what we need this year is on fossil fuel, stronger
Speaker 1: language matched with the finance reforms that are needed so
Speaker 1: that countries can phase out while providing and having prosperity
Speaker 1: for their people and taking care of the planet at
Speaker 1: the same time. It's a tall order, but we have
Speaker 1: no choice. I mean, look, the planet is on fire.
Speaker 1: The poorest are suffering immensely, and so I think that
Speaker 1: the incoming cup presidency understands that, and we'll count on
Speaker 1: them to drive us forward in a way that we
Speaker 1: can all feel like we got the whole thing at
Speaker 1: the end. Thank you very much for this conversation. You're
Speaker 1: very welcome. A climate on wise rule is never easy,
Speaker 1: having to balance short term political realities with the long
Speaker 1: term need to reduce emissions. Jennifer's position is harder because
Speaker 1: of the geopolitical shock Germany has faced over the last year.
Speaker 1: While she didn't answer many of my questions directly, it
Speaker 1: was a great insight on how she is playing the
Speaker 1: balancing act. Thanks for listening to Zero. If you liked
Speaker 1: this episode, please take a moment to rate and review
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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot Net zero's producer is Oscar Boyd and
Speaker 1: senior producer is Christine riscoll Our. Theme music is composed
Speaker 1: by Wonderlely Special thanks to Laura Milan, John Ninger, Petra Sorgey,
Speaker 1: Olivia Rudgard and Kira bin Rim. I'm Markshatrati back next week.