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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and what good of

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Speaker 1: Steffan Never Told You proflection of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Today.

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Speaker 1: We are so happy to once again be joined by

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Speaker 1: the marvelous, the fantastic, the wonderful Bridget Todd Award winning.

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Speaker 3: Award winning and book buying because I just bought your

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Speaker 3: new book stuff I've Never told you.

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Speaker 4: Because I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: We were talking off Mike about how excited I am

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Speaker 3: so add award winning Comma stuff I'm Never told you

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Speaker 3: book purchasing to that name.

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Speaker 4: Of who I Am.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it really really reads a lot. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: are so excited to have you on. I just I

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Speaker 1: feel like we haven't seen you in forever, even though

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Speaker 1: I know it's not true.

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Speaker 5: Time flies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's great. It's very very great to have

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Speaker 1: you as always. How have you been, Bridget, what's been

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Speaker 1: going on? I know you do have some awards or

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Speaker 1: potential case trophy case.

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Speaker 5: Just case that sounded like what?

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Speaker 1: Sorry?

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Speaker 4: Like, do you know anything about my legal.

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Speaker 3: I am happy to take home the not the winning award,

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Speaker 3: but the second runner up whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 3: Shorty Award for Best Tech and Science Podcast, Major shout

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Speaker 3: out star team Joey and Tari.

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Speaker 4: And Jonathan and Mike.

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Speaker 3: Also, speaking of Joey, I heard Joey on stuff I've

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Speaker 3: never told you doing that episode about Kosa, and it

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Speaker 3: was a really good episode. So all of y'all yeah

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Speaker 3: for that one. Yeah, this summer is winding down, thank god.

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Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to fall. This summer didn't really

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Speaker 3: take for me. How has the summer been for y'all?

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Speaker 5: You're asking while we're in the middle of like hurricane season. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: so we've had a lot of rain, and a lot

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Speaker 5: more rain is coming today, especially in this week. So

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Speaker 5: I will say though, as a person who does enjoy

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Speaker 5: like some of the somber parts of the weather, like

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Speaker 5: the like the darkness and the lightning as long as

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Speaker 5: I'm not near it, because I do have a small

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Speaker 5: fear of that lightning. I am much like my dog.

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Speaker 5: But the heat, I'm good about it. But I do

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Speaker 5: have a fear of winter in that I don't like

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Speaker 5: being cold, so I feel like that's too close to

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Speaker 5: So I'm just an unhappy person, you know.

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Speaker 4: Any of the seasons like winter, I don't care for it.

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Speaker 5: I love fall and spring, but it's so sure that

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Speaker 5: I'll forget. Okay, I'm unhappy again.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready for like it's it's been so hot in DC.

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm so ready to like be contemplative with a

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Speaker 3: sweater and like walk around holding a coffee and like,

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Speaker 3: you know, all the little all the things that you

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Speaker 3: associate with fall.

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Speaker 5: I'm ready for right, Well, I am like a my

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Speaker 5: personality is Cardigan. Like that's just the personality that I am.

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Speaker 5: So I am looking forward to that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, your personality can really shine, It's true.

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Speaker 1: And Cardigan, that's my lifestyle.

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Speaker 5: Poncho, A good poncho and what I mean poncho, I'm

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Speaker 5: talking like you know, the sweater ponchos. I am that girl.

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Speaker 5: Don't worry about me. I'll be in the corner with

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Speaker 5: my poncho and Cardigans.

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Speaker 4: Cozy every day.

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Speaker 5: It sounds great, Annie, now you feel about it?

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Speaker 1: Uh, I'm ready for it to be over as well.

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Speaker 1: I was complaining about my AC unit, my window AC

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Speaker 1: unit just now. But I do agree with you, Bridget.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel like it it took because I'm still

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Speaker 1: I am definitely going out more than I did. But

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Speaker 1: when the pandemic was like en fulse thing. But I'm

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Speaker 1: still like I don't go out nearly as often, so

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Speaker 1: I don't go outside all the time, and so I'm

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Speaker 1: just getting like the heat with my sad ac Unit

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Speaker 1: and not any of that other stuff. Yeah, so it doesn't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just sort of felt like, oh falls coming out, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, bad miss it. Yeah, and I follows my

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Speaker 1: favorite month of season, so I'm very very excited for that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it is supposed to rain pretty badly today

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Speaker 1: and this there might be thunder. The power my power

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Speaker 1: goes out all the time, so we'll see. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's appropriate for what we're talking.

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Speaker 3: About a little bit on the horizon to be aware

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Speaker 3: that is a masterful segue.

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Speaker 4: You're a real tro.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I have a very specific skill set, and

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Speaker 1: it's like bad puns and some interesting segus transitioning perfect.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great transition because we got to be

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Speaker 3: aware of all the different Supreme Court legal challenges and

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Speaker 3: storms on the horizon, one of which I am talking

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Speaker 3: about today, and that's because the man who brought us

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Speaker 3: the legal challenge that struck down affirmative earlier this summer

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Speaker 3: is back, and this time he is coming for grants

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Speaker 3: and the fellowships that support marginalized people. So you all

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Speaker 3: probably recall that earlier this summer. Back in June, the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court struck down affirmative action, ruling that race can

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Speaker 3: no longer play a part in college admissions. Notably, the

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Speaker 3: decision just applied to race. It did not apply to

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Speaker 3: gender or things like legacy status or donor status being

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Speaker 3: considered in the college admissions process. Separately, some colleges like

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Speaker 3: Harvard have signaled that they might start re examining the

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Speaker 3: role that things like legacy status plays in college admissions

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Speaker 3: in light of that Supreme Court ruling.

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Speaker 4: Do you all remember this. I remember when the ruling

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Speaker 4: was struck down.

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Speaker 3: How big it felt, especially being a big Supreme Court ruling.

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Speaker 4: About a year the after row was struck down, it felt.

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Speaker 3: Like, you know, one big torrent of rain and then

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Speaker 3: another big torrent of rain to continue your METAe.

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Speaker 5: For Annie, Yes, good metaphor nicely done.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, no, it definitely did, because that was at

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Speaker 1: the end of the Supreme Court session and there had

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Speaker 1: just been a lot of I mean, it turned out

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Speaker 1: to be true, but a lot of fear around like

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Speaker 1: what will they do?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: It just made like all of these any decisions in

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Speaker 1: one day.

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Speaker 5: In one day. Yeah, you know it's odd because I

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Speaker 5: was absolutely alive, and I think, like talking about trying

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Speaker 5: to get into school and having this whole conversation when

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Speaker 5: I'm a firmative action was coming into debate to begin with,

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Speaker 5: and to see it like this, I'm not gonna lie,

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna be very transparent here as growing up in

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Speaker 5: a white household who are very conservative, not around any

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Speaker 5: marginalized groups outside of me who they rescued and put

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Speaker 5: that in air quotes out of like a marginalized a

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Speaker 5: bad situation. Seeing what they were saying was fed into

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Speaker 5: me and being like, yeah, I absolutely agreed that I

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Speaker 5: should not get I don't want to be given a

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Speaker 5: special spot because of my race. I want to earn it.

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Speaker 5: I said that out loud to my family before I

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Speaker 5: started college, in any of that, not understanding what it

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Speaker 5: really was. And I truly believe my parents believe that.

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Speaker 5: I don't think my siblings believe that because they're they

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Speaker 5: are educated and they understand, but I truly believe that

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Speaker 5: because that was what was fed into me. So I

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Speaker 5: have this real, like ugh it feeling about this whole

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Speaker 5: action because the face of the suit was an Asian

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Speaker 5: man who was bitter, bitter little baby that I feel

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Speaker 5: like so many ways about it, and then coming into

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Speaker 5: college on my own and then understanding what it truly

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Speaker 5: was and realizing, oh, yeah, that stuff that I spewed

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Speaker 5: out as a kid was actual white supremacy coming out

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Speaker 5: of my mouth because I was trying to impress my

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Speaker 5: white family, uh and being fed a bunch of lies.

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Speaker 5: So it was it felt like so gross to know

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Speaker 5: that I was manipulated like that at my young age,

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Speaker 5: at my young age. Also that I think, I don't

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Speaker 5: know how old the students. I guess he was trying

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Speaker 5: to get into college, so I guess maybe around the

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Speaker 5: same time. And then coming in to this now that

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my god, what have we done essentially,

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Speaker 5: like with allowing these types of lies to perpetuate and

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Speaker 5: not looking at the true statistics behind these actual numbers

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Speaker 5: and why affirmative action was and is necessary. But again,

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Speaker 5: because of that rhetoric being around, it wasn't surprising that

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Speaker 5: it was undone because it was truly hanging on by

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Speaker 5: a thread because of those types of lies. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: I have like this ache and like mourning in guilt,

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Speaker 5: guilt by association, and guilt by like past actions that

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my god, what is this? Like part

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Speaker 5: of what I was spewing is part of the reason

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Speaker 5: this is undone. Of course, the bigger picture is again

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Speaker 5: white supremacists and their power that they wanted to play

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Speaker 5: and the overall arcing like oh who was doing the

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Speaker 5: main grab and trying to make sure that what a

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Speaker 5: marginalized people stay down and stay unable to get to

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Speaker 5: any of these places because they do not have the

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Speaker 5: connections essentially just all connections, not even money anymore, so connections,

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Speaker 5: and it's just disgusting. So, yeah, I have very strong feelings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I first of all, thank you for sharing that,

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Speaker 3: and I can kind of identify, I know how you feel.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that you need to have guilt for

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Speaker 3: having felt that way, because, first of all, we live

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Speaker 3: in a society where it's so easy to pit marginalize

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Speaker 3: people against each other in service of upholding white supremacy.

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Speaker 3: Like that is a tried and true method that bad

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Speaker 3: actors and people interested in upholding white supremacy have engaged

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Speaker 3: for a very long time. And so the reason they

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Speaker 3: do it is because it's effective, and so it's not

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Speaker 3: surprising that it will be effective on you, a young person. Also,

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Speaker 3: the way that we talk about it, I think just

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Speaker 3: does not set people up to have a full understanding

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Speaker 3: of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: So we talk so much about affirmative action, and when

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Speaker 3: we talk about affirmative action, usually the face of affirmative

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Speaker 3: action is a black person, right, And so we're talking

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Speaker 3: about like, oh, well, do you think that black people

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Speaker 3: should get a leg up in admissions processes?

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Speaker 4: Of course people are not gonna agree with that.

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Speaker 3: But the reality is is that that is a myth

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Speaker 3: because the Department of Labor shows that the primary beneficiaries

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Speaker 3: of affirmative action are actually white women. That is not

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Speaker 3: what the way that are, the way that we talk

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Speaker 3: about it would lead you to believe, right. And so

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Speaker 3: another idea is that when we talk about admissions, so

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Speaker 3: I would say this is just my opinion, but I

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Speaker 3: would say that there is an outsized space given to

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Speaker 3: conversations about affirmative action, which, as I said, are sort

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Speaker 3: of translated through like oh black people, that there the

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Speaker 3: face of it, and so much less space given to

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Speaker 3: things like legacy status, which I think I had a

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Speaker 3: stat earlier but it's some astronomical amount of kids in

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Speaker 3: college get there because they are their parents went to

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Speaker 3: that college, or their parents are donors to that.

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Speaker 4: College, or some sort of a leg up.

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Speaker 3: And essentially what that is is like affirmative action for

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Speaker 3: rich people. Yeah, we don't even it's not even part

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Speaker 3: of the conversation and certainly has not been part of

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Speaker 3: the conversation the way that affirmative action has been.

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Speaker 4: So I would argue that, like, you were not.

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Speaker 3: Given a clear picture of the issue in order to

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Speaker 3: be able to like thoughtfully come up with a critique

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Speaker 3: or an opinion about it, right, And I think that

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Speaker 3: that has to be by.

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Speaker 5: Design, right absolutely. I think in the understanding, as you

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Speaker 5: were saying, is the rhetoric I was given was all

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Speaker 5: anti black. Like we're going to be very very specific

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Speaker 5: in calling it what it was. It wasn't about anything else.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't about me being a minority or like being

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Speaker 5: Asian and a marginalized woman. Is literally they were trying

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Speaker 5: to be anti black. They were staying the quiet part

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Speaker 5: out loud because that's all they see. That's the big

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Speaker 5: enemy that is built up against white people, which is

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Speaker 5: so disgusting and it's very prevalent, Like, that's the real understanding.

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Speaker 5: We need to have that whole fact and hold that conversation.

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Speaker 5: Is this is an anti black movement, and in that

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Speaker 5: it did not it did not actually help the black

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Speaker 5: community that much at all. It really did not bring in,

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Speaker 5: as you said, statistically, black people into colleges. It was

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Speaker 5: again more white women, all white women essentially. And then

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Speaker 5: again the legacy people. Those are the people who are

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Speaker 5: still remaining and going to colleges and still getting scholarships

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Speaker 5: to get into these colleges, and still getting like loans

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Speaker 5: at a reasonable interest rate, all of those things. But

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Speaker 5: for some reason, they built this boogeyman. Not some reason

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Speaker 5: we know why, but they built a boogieyman in order

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Speaker 5: to make sure that they put down a specific group

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Speaker 5: of people because they're like, hey, this is a battle

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Speaker 5: we can win. We've always won with this beat. Let's

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Speaker 5: do this.

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Speaker 3: Anti blackness is always that is a train that is

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Speaker 3: always on time.

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Speaker 4: So what's interesting.

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Speaker 3: About what you just said is that white women, despite

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Speaker 3: being the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action, are also the

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Speaker 3: most likely to be against it. So, according to a

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Speaker 3: twenty fourteen cooperative Congressional election study, nearly seventy percent of

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Speaker 3: the twenty thousand, six hundred and ninety four self identified

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Speaker 3: non Hispanic white women surveyed either somewhat or strongly opposed

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Speaker 3: affirmative action. Again, I think it's like one of those

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Speaker 3: situations where because the way that it is framed is like,

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Speaker 3: this is a program that helps black people, and if

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Speaker 3: you don't think black people should be getting a leg

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Speaker 3: up over you, you should not be into it, you

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Speaker 3: should be against it. That rhetoric actually ends up hurting

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Speaker 3: all marginalized people, whether you're a white woman, because you know,

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Speaker 3: like it's one of those dynamics where the anti blackness

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Speaker 3: becomes a way to.

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Speaker 4: Get people on board.

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Speaker 3: But then that is not an accurate reflection of who

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Speaker 3: the beneficiaries of programs like affirmative action actually end up being. Right, So, Annie,

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Speaker 3: you were saying how Asian Americans were kind of made

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Speaker 3: the face of the sort of victims of affirmative action,

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Speaker 3: and that is very much by design because of this

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Speaker 3: guy who is a conservativelee again named Edward Blum. I

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Speaker 3: call him a litigant because that's like kind of what

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Speaker 3: he is, like a professional lawsuit bringer. He is not

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Speaker 3: a lawyer himself, but he basically connects potential plaintiffs with

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Speaker 3: attorneys who are willing to represent them in test cases,

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Speaker 3: which he then uses to try to set legal precedents.

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Speaker 3: He is the founder and sole member of an organization

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Speaker 3: called Project on Fair Representation, which he found that in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five, which focuses on voting, education, contracting, employment,

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Speaker 3: racial quotas, and racial reparations.

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Speaker 4: Basically, his whole thing is.

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Speaker 3: Bringing legal challenges to strike down laws that I would

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Speaker 3: argue protect.

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Speaker 4: Non white, non straight, non men.

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Speaker 3: More on this later. However, if you were to ask him,

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Speaker 3: he would probably say that it's not that he wants

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Speaker 3: to elevate like one race over anybody else, but that

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Speaker 3: he wants all laws and all like public considerations to

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Speaker 3: be race or identity neutral. He has described his ethos

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Speaker 3: like this quote, Our history has been tainted tragically by

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Speaker 3: the use of race and various public and private arenas.

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Speaker 3: Race discrimination is odious, something the founding principles of the

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Speaker 3: Civil Rights Movement were designed to eliminate. Personally, I would

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Speaker 3: say that I don't know if I buy what he

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Speaker 3: is saying. It seems like an awfully convenient way to

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Speaker 3: justify the fact that he keeps gutting laws that protect

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Speaker 3: marginalized people.

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Speaker 4: But there you have it. That is what he says.

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Speaker 3: His motivation is he just thinks that everything should be

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Speaker 3: race neutral, right. The Guardian describes him as quote a

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Speaker 3: human wrecking ball on a mission to destroy the landmark

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Speaker 3: achievements of the civil rights era and send the country

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Speaker 3: back to a dark age of discrimination and harassment of

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Speaker 3: minorities in the workplace and higher education and at the

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Speaker 3: ballot box.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, this is the very basis of heading

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Speaker 5: that level of if everything was fair from the beginning,

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Speaker 5: great great, if everything was equal and everybody had same

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Speaker 5: in equity, that would be a beautiful utopia. But as

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Speaker 5: we know this land, this country, those countries that have

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Speaker 5: been colonized, as not based on that level, and that

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Speaker 5: it has never been about equity, has always been about

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Speaker 5: who has power and those who have power. Really was like,

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Speaker 5: but I love that time. That was the great time.

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Speaker 5: Buy can't we have that again? Which is like, hmm,

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Speaker 5: you know, we know what you're really saying exactly.

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Speaker 3: The affirmative action ruling was now Blump's first rodeo. A

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Speaker 3: legal challenge that he brought was what led to the

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Speaker 3: gutting of the Voting Rights Act. That was the Shelby

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Speaker 3: County Versus Holder case that he sponsored in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 3: and it led to the Supreme Court overturning a key

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Speaker 3: provision in the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights Act. That

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Speaker 3: legal challenge is when we saw the introduction of things

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Speaker 3: like voter ID requirements, cutting back on early voting, eliminating

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Speaker 3: same day voter registration.

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Speaker 4: All of that was because of him.

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Speaker 3: So thank you Edward Blum for ushering that into our landscape.

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Speaker 5: He's really the villain in all the story.

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Speaker 4: On my podcast, there are no girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: We've referred to him a lot as just like a

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Speaker 3: professional hater, Like he's just someone who like just like

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Speaker 3: hate hate hate, hate, hate, like go, I don't like

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Speaker 3: that hate hate.

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Speaker 4: Hate like professional hater.

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Speaker 5: Is he does?

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Speaker 2: He is?

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Speaker 5: He very rich.

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Speaker 4: I think he's.

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Speaker 3: Wealthy, like I think I think that he I've actually

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Speaker 3: looked into him because I'm he's one of those figures.

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Speaker 4: That I find so curious.

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Speaker 3: He did not come from wealth, but I think that

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Speaker 3: he has wealth now and he's just interested in using

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Speaker 3: that wealth and influencing those connections into creating these different

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Speaker 3: legal precedents that I would say harm us.

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Speaker 5: All right, he is that evil genius because we've seen

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Speaker 5: that in a lot of conservative think tanks as well

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Speaker 5: as essentially right wing groups that have been building up

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Speaker 5: the legal system to only help them, putting in uh,

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Speaker 5: those in law school that they know that they can

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Speaker 5: pull back out and educating them and funding them to

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Speaker 5: the full in order to come back out and do

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Speaker 5: these types of cases, knowing that if they can do this,

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Speaker 5: this is going to be the basis of how they win.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, did you guys, did you all see that

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Speaker 3: docuseries on the Duggers on Hulut.

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Speaker 4: So that's the whole thing. It's a real like jeeze

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Speaker 4: as you might imagine.

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Speaker 3: But sure, one of the things they make very clear

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Speaker 3: is that it's not just about like this one problematic

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Speaker 3: super religious family on TV. It is about this vast

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Speaker 3: network of young people who are being like trained and

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Speaker 3: educated and ursoll are very well connected to reach the

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Speaker 3: highest levels of government and influence to make laws for

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Speaker 3: all of us. So it's not enough that like their

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Speaker 3: kids are homeschooled or that their kids are live a

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Speaker 3: certain way. They are training the next generation of political

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Speaker 3: operatives and lawmakers to make sure that all of us

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Speaker 3: and all of our kids live the way that they

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Speaker 3: think that they should be living. So it's pretty, I

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Speaker 3: guess some diabolical.

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Speaker 4: It's the word I would use.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned earlier, how when you were having conversations about college,

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Speaker 3: you remember watching the first wave of the affirmative action

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Speaker 3: legal challenge go down. And even if folks weren't following

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Speaker 3: affirmative action very closely, they might remember Blum's earlier attempt

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Speaker 3: to challenge it. So Blum had been working to challenge

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Speaker 3: affirmative action since twenty thirteen, when he worked with this woman,

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Speaker 3: Abigail Fisher, who was the daughter of a good friend

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Speaker 3: of his, who was a white woman. She you might

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Speaker 3: unbreshid red hair. She did not get into University of

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Speaker 3: Texas because her GPA was frankly mid. She sued the

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Speaker 3: University of Texas at Austin in two thousand and eight

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Speaker 3: after it denied her admission. She had a three point

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Speaker 3: five to nine GPA as a senior, which put her

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Speaker 3: just below the cutoff for a state law requiring ut

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Speaker 3: to accept any graduate in the top ten percent of

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Speaker 3: their high school class. So like mathematically speaking, she was

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Speaker 3: not in the top ten percent of her high school class.

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Speaker 3: She felt that she should have still gotten admission because

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Speaker 3: of her extracurricular activities combined with her GPA, and that

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Speaker 3: she would have gotten into ut if the university had

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Speaker 3: not used race as a factor in selecting its freshman class,

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Speaker 3: which she argued was a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment's

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Speaker 3: Equal Protection clause.

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Speaker 4: Do you all remember this? Like she was like a

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Speaker 4: very like memorable.

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Speaker 3: Figure, Like I feel like when I when I hear

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Speaker 3: about this, I can see this one image of her

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Speaker 3: standing at a podium outside of the Supreme Court, which

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Speaker 3: is like burned in my mind.

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Speaker 5: I do remember this because I remember thinking, this is

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Speaker 5: the dumbest argument I've ever seen, because I'm like, girl,

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Speaker 5: you didn't make it, Like even without a firma diviction,

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Speaker 5: you wouldn't have You wouldn't have made it. Do you

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Speaker 5: not understand how many people are struggling to get into

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Speaker 5: college today because a little more access has happened, not

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Speaker 5: just because of a firma divection, but like if the

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Speaker 5: lottery and all of those things, would we have more scholarships.

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Speaker 5: I was just like, why are people listening to her?

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Speaker 5: I think that was the biggest question in my head.

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Speaker 5: I was like, why are we paying attention to this?

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Speaker 5: Like she has no case, I think I thought.

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking like is this an onion headblow? She

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Speaker 1: didn't just the grades are bad and now she's I.

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Speaker 5: Think that was the beginning of like, oh, this is

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Speaker 5: a Becky Sorry, Becky's in the world. That's really just

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Speaker 5: whining because she couldn't get her away like that. I

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Speaker 5: remember like that was the beginning of that of like, oh,

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Speaker 5: sorority girl was again, no, no, no, no hate to

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Speaker 5: sorority people. I'm so sorry, but you know that level

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Speaker 5: like stereotype in that my daddy said that I could

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Speaker 5: get in and now I'm not in.

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Speaker 3: Why so the way that y'all are reacting is exactly

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Speaker 3: how I'm this is validating because I remember her being

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Speaker 3: treated like kind of a joke, like her GP was

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Speaker 3: like fine, but certainly at three point like guess it

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Speaker 3: was a lot higher than my GP was when I

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Speaker 3: was in high school. So like I'll own that, but

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Speaker 3: like you know, it's not three point five nine is

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Speaker 3: not an automatic entrance to wherever you want to go

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Speaker 3: to college. It's like a fine GPA, And so I

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Speaker 3: remember people calling her becky with the bad grades and

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Speaker 3: the vibe around her. Was it like she was just

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Speaker 3: salty that she didn't get in and so she was

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Speaker 3: like blaming black people, And so obviously she was not

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Speaker 3: a very I guess sympathetic legal challenge to affirmative action.

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Speaker 4: And so obviously Abigail's legal challenge did not work.

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Speaker 3: So bum regrouped and made the strategic choice to make

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Speaker 3: the face of affirmative action or the people being harmed

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Speaker 3: by affirmative action, according to him, Asian Americans. According to

442
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 3: an NPR article he told a gathering of the Houston

443
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: Chinese Alliance in twenty fifteen, quote I needed plaintiffs.

444
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 4: I needed Asian plaintiffs.

445
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 3: MPR spoke to Hannay Lopez, a race and constitutional law

446
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 3: scholar at Berkeley, who described this as a deliberate switch

447
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: in strategy and that the argument was no longer centered

448
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 3: on how affirmative action impacts white people. Instead quote, there's

449
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: this move to strengthen the surface argument that this is

450
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: racism against minorities.

451
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 4: I think it's part of the appeal.

452
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 3: And so I've read like Asian American activists and advocates

453
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: saying that like what he was doing, was this intentional

454
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: shift to make Asian Americans like a like a proxy

455
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 3: stand in for white people to be like, oh no,

456
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: like I this can't be about racial animists because I

457
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 3: am trying to advocate for Asian Americans. And again, I

458
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 3: think it's a really great example of how effective a

459
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 3: strategy it is to pit marginalized groups against one another

460
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 3: in service of white supremacy, because in the end, it's

461
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 3: not like I think, since affirmative action has been struck down,

462
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 3: we've already seen data trickle in that wasn't that long ago,

463
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: but already we've seen data trickle in that suggests that like, yeah,

464
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: it's it's white people with connections, it's white legacy students

465
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: who are continuing to get more slots in admissions. It's

466
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: not you know, it's it's certainly not helping the Asian

467
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 3: Americans who were who brought this challenge, and it's actually

468
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: just opening up more slots for more rich white people,

469
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: because that's how college works in the United States, right.

470
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 5: And of course his play is being used by other

471
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 5: places such as Florida do doing the Asian American history

472
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 5: instead but blacklisting African American history, and we know what

473
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 5: that play is, that that's the same type of narrative.

474
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 5: They're like, Oh, this is working, let's try this, let's

475
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 5: keep this going exactly.

476
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 4: So I really wanted to talk about.

477
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: So, after on the heels of successfully getting the Supreme

478
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: Court to strike down affirmative Action, what is Blum's next move?

479
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 4: Well, he is.

480
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: Back after gutting affirmative Action. His next move is going

481
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: after fellowships and grant programs that support marginalized people. He's

482
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: assuming two corporate law firms on the grounds that they're

483
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: fellowship programs that are aimed at students of color, those

484
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 3: who identify as LGBTQ plus, and students with disabilities, exclude

485
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 3: applicants based on race, and he is demanding that those

486
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: programs be shut down. He is also suing a black

487
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: venture capital firm called the Fearless Fund. So this is

488
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 3: kind of the meat of why I wanted to bring

489
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 3: this conversation to the table today, because he is alleging

490
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 3: that the Fearless Fund is practicing unlawful racial discrimination. Blum

491
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 3: claims the Fearless Fund is engaged in explicit racial exclusion

492
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: by operating a grant program quote only open to black females.

493
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 3: According to The Washington Post, the lawsuit is asked to

494
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 3: prevent the fund from selecting its next round of grant winners.

495
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: The claim states that the firm is quote violating Section

496
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one of the Civil Rights Act of eighteen

497
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: sixty six, a US law barring racial bias in private contracts,

498
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: by making only black women eligible in the grant competition.

499
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, he's just like coming after anything that he

500
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: sees as supporting non white people. The Fearless Fund was

501
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: launched in twenty nineteen by three prominent black women, Keisha

502
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: Knight Pullman who you might remember as Rudy Huxtable on

503
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: The Cosby Show, entrepreneur arian Simone, and corporate executive Ayana Parsons.

504
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: They have a strong and impressive list of investors like

505
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: Bank of America, Costco, General Mills, MasterCard, JP Morgan. They've

506
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 3: invested in over forty businesses in the past four years,

507
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: including Atlanta favorite The Slutty Vegan.

508
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 4: Have y'all eaten there?

509
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, it was near my house that I lived.

510
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Samantha was smart and went during the Super Bowl,

511
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: so there was no one there.

512
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 5: So they stay open till two am and so when

513
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 5: the Super bowls, because it's always packed out, and we

514
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 5: went at it still took forever. They made good food.

515
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,719
Speaker 5: It takes a while, but yeah, we went. I think

516
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 5: they only been once though I don't stand in lines.

517
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: It was a long line. I've never been.

518
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 5: But and she has expanded that business everywhere, especially in

519
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 5: Atlanta and then Georgia. So good on her and owns

520
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 5: a lot of property.

521
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: That wouldn't be possible without the Fearless Fun. And so

522
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 3: the lawsuit that Blum is bringing centers on the Fearless

523
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: Funds Fearless Strivers Grant contest, which awards black women who

524
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: own small businesses twenty thousand dollars in grants and digital

525
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 3: tools to help them grow their businesses and mentorship opportunities.

526
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: So interestingly enough, Blama did not seek out the Fearless

527
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: Fund to sue, but rather, he says that a non

528
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 3: black woman who runs a business reached out to him

529
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: via email and flagged like, do you know that these

530
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: black women are running a grant program that I can't

531
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 3: be part of? And so the Washington Post reports, but

532
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: the lawsuit sites three female business owners, one from New

533
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: York and two from Virginia, who argue that they could

534
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: have benefited from the Fearless Funds grant program, but they

535
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 3: were ineligible because they are not black. So yeah, these

536
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: non black women basically just felt like they should be

537
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: entitled to this grant program that black women established for

538
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: themselves to support black women.

539
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 4: They were like, we should have a piece of that.

540
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 5: That's such an interesting take because I'm like, well, you

541
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 5: also didn't get it from every other business grant ever,

542
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 5: so why are you choosing this like you want did

543
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 5: you try for it? This just seems like a lazy

544
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 5: part of like I want this one thing, I couldn't

545
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 5: get it.

546
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: I quit.

547
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: They're biased, Like yeah, I mean this is just my opinion,

548
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: and but like it's so hard to not see this

549
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: as like just hater vibes, like everything has to be

550
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: for you, and if it's not for you, you have

551
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 2: to shut it down.

552
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to what we were saying

553
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: earlier about the women who benefit from affirmative action are

554
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 3: also the ones who are the most likely to be

555
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: against it.

556
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 4: I firmly believe that there is enough.

557
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: Out there for all of us. And I'm an entrepreneur, right,

558
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: so I know how hard the funding spaces for women,

559
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 3: all women, and but I know how hard it is

560
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: for black womenicular as a black woman.

561
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 4: We'll get into some of the stats in just a moment.

562
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: But I believe that despite that, there is enough for everyone.

563
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: Everyone will find their lane, everyone will find their people,

564
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: everyone will find what they need to make what they

565
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: want happen. I believe that as like a like a

566
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: meditation that keeps me in this work and keeps me

567
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: being an entrepreneur.

568
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 4: But I feel like the dynamic that.

569
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: Says that women need to be pit against each other,

570
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: that if you're a white woman, you need to be

571
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: trying to shut down a grant that is for black women,

572
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: that's not a dynamic that helps anybody, right, And so

573
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 3: I think that.

574
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 4: We all have our place, we all have our niche.

575
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 4: There's enough for all of us.

576
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: But that dynamic that we are enemies only serve that

577
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: does not serve anybody. It doesn't serve me, it doesn't

578
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 3: serve it. It ultimately won't serve them as either. It

579
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: just keeps us pit against each other as opposed to

580
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: these larger systems that are actually holding us all down.

581
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 5: It's such a mind play that they have to people

582
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 5: have to go through to be like, Okay, I can't

583
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: get this one thing because they say I can't have it,

584
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 5: so that means no one should have it because I'm

585
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 5: gonna be miserable, and so are you. Misery loves Company.

586
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: We're going to keep this mentality going and then also

587
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 5: not look at the like here's the small thing versus

588
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 5: the giant amount of stuff that you also can't get

589
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 5: because you're not a rich white man, but you don't

590
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 5: care about that thing, Like that's the one thing that's

591
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 5: a little bit more accessible to tear someone down who

592
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 5: other people will help you tear down with, instead of

593
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 5: this big giant amount of cash that's just sitting here

594
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 5: for the white man. Like it's just I said, for

595
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 5: the white man, like I'm a native, but like that,

596
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 5: you know, that's just like mind level of like how

597
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 5: much you're willing to ignore to be like, Okay, I'm

598
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 5: at the bottom. Who can I make lesser than me?

599
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 5: Who can I push down further than me? So at

600
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 5: the very least I'm not at the very bottom. Oh

601
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 5: my god, that's just such a mind trick.

602
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: This reminds me of when I was a little kid

603
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 3: and my brother had this like free coupon for an

604
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: ice cream from McDonald's that he got from school. So

605
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: he met to McDonald's together and he got one ice cream,

606
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: and I didn't have any money because he were little kids,

607
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: and so they gave him his ice cream, and I

608
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: got very jealous, and so I smacked it out of

609
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: his hand onto the ground, and he was.

610
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 4: Like, I was going to give you a bite.

611
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: That's like because I was like, I don't want him

612
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: to get something that I can't have.

613
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 4: It's got a flattering story.

614
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: But I was like seven years old, right, because it's

615
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: like he was going to give me a bite, so

616
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: I missed out. I'm getting my bite because I could

617
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: not just let him have something that I wanted and

618
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: felt entitled.

619
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 5: To you immediately and probably earned. I'm thinking of an

620
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 5: accelerated reader.

621
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 4: What it was like.

622
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: It was like a if you read X amount of books,

623
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 3: you get an ice an ice cream coupon or something.

624
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 5: I weren't for this, but yeah, I think this is

625
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 5: so interesting. And the fact that he, of course Blum

626
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 5: had to pounce on this, I'm sure it was like

627
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 5: a gift for him. I must take this.

628
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: He was like, ooh, I was looking for a way

629
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: to spread my hater vibes, and yeah, after that Supreme

630
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: Court ruling, and now this lands, this gift, lands in

631
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: my inbox.

632
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 5: And also makes me stronger, stronger than the woman who's complaining.

633
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: Because exactly.

634
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: So, Blum is using what he is called quote the

635
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: shoe on the other foot test. The rhetorical strategy that

636
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: he asks himself is if a grant program funded white

637
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: male business owners wouldn't be considered fair. But that test,

638
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 3: like you were saying, Sam, really assumes that we are

639
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 3: all equal and all have equal access, which the data

640
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 3: could not paint a clearer picture about the fact that

641
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: that is not happening. Black women are the fastest rising

642
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: group of entrepreneurs in the country. According to the Harvard

643
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: Business Review In the US, an astounding seventeen percent of

644
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: Black women are in the process of starting or running

645
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: a new business. That's compared to just ten percent of

646
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: white women and fifteen percent of white men. Yet despite

647
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: this lead, only three percent of women are running mature businesses.

648
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: Why well, One big reason is access to capital. Harvard

649
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: Business Reviews research found that sixty one percent of black

650
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: women self fund their total startup capital. This is in

651
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: spite of the fact that, in their finding, only twenty

652
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: nine percent of black women entrepreneurs live in households with

653
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: incomes over seventy five thousand dollars, compared to fifty two

654
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: percent of white men. This data is also combined with

655
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: data suggesting that black women are less likely to own

656
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: our own homes, take on a higher level of debt

657
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 3: to do things like go to college, and are often

658
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: like saddled with debt to go to college right, And

659
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: so ultimately that leaves us saddled with more debt and

660
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 3: having fewer personal resources and low collateral. Black entrepreneurs typically

661
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 3: receive less than two percent of all venture capital dollars

662
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 3: each year, while companies led by black women receive less

663
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 3: than one percent of all funding.

664
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 4: This is according to crunch Base.

665
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, the funding landscape is not great for black women.

666
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: Less than one percent of funding goes to us. And

667
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 3: so the fact that we already don't get that much,

668
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: that there are grants and investment funds specifically aimed at

669
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 3: shifting those numbers just a tiny bit, like the Fearless Fund,

670
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 3: and that people are saying, no, we need to go

671
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 3: for that too. That less than one percent that goes

672
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: to y'all that needs to go to us now. In

673
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, Pew found that just three percent of US

674
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 3: businesses were black owned, while eighty six percent were white owned.

675
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 4: And so, yeah, as I said, like, as.

676
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 3: An entrepreneur, these kind of dismal numbers completely aligned with

677
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 3: my own experiences trying to raise money for projects that

678
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: I want to do.

679
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: There's just not a lot out there, and.

680
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: You really have to stay focused and stay positive and

681
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 3: not really let the sort of numbers around how dismal

682
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 3: things can be kind.

683
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 4: Of get in your head.

684
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: But then on top of it, when you have people

685
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 3: like Blum and these women that he's representing in this case,

686
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: to challenge these funds, to challenge what little.

687
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 4: Is out there for black entrepreneurs.

688
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 3: Who are women, it's hard to internalize that as anything

689
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 3: other than they don't want us here, They don't want

690
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 3: us to have anything.

691
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 4: You know.

692
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And it's so frustrating too, because a lot

693
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: of companies like to act like they are supporting marginalized people,

694
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: they are supporting black people, and they make these like

695
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: outward promises and then just don't really follow through with them.

696
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, y'all might remember or be thinking like I thought

697
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, like, after all the racial justice uprisings,

698
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: I'm the wake of the murder of George Floyd. I

699
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: thought that all these businesses and funds and grants were

700
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: like going to start funding more diverse people and like

701
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 3: having a more inclusive portfolio. Well, I remember all those

702
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: promises too. Business has committed three hundred and forty billion

703
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 3: dollars between May twenty twenty and October twenty twenty two,

704
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 3: according to McKenzie, and The Post also reports that investments

705
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: swelled in the startup world. A record five point one

706
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: billion dollars in funding was allocated to black founded startups

707
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one. That sounds like a lot. However,

708
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 3: all of that interest and excitement and commitment pretty much

709
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 3: eroded very quickly, with funding for black founded startups plunging

710
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: fifty percent in twenty twenty two. So remember this is

711
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: all happening against the pendulum kind of swinging back the

712
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: other way where all of these corporate diversity efforts became

713
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: a political lightning rod, and these employers just sort of backpedaled, right,

714
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: And so I think that.

715
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 4: That's where we're at now.

716
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: Where in twenty twenty people talked a lot of big

717
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: games about money they were going to give and funds

718
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: they were going to give, and how they were going to.

719
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 4: You know, support inclusive people.

720
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 3: And startups and YadA, YadA, YadA, and all of those

721
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: promises just fizzled out, right, And I think that we're

722
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: sort of seeing I would argue, like a backlash to

723
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: that now where diversity and inclusion staffers are being let go.

724
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 3: I think like recently Chick fil A just like happened

725
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: to have a diversity and inclusion person on their staff,

726
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 3: and like there was a worry of like online protests

727
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: because of that, Like just having somebody thinking about that

728
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 3: on staff is now a lightning rod. And so obviously

729
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: in that kind of climate, these organizations are not going

730
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 3: to be funding black women, even though they committed to it,

731
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: even though it seemed like that was there was a

732
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: lot of excitement around that. Like yeah, I just think

733
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 3: that we're in a completely different landscape than we were

734
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty.

735
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: I mean, this is definitely that whole level of they

736
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 5: want good publicity, but they're not going to follow through.

737
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 5: Is the black square. Let me pretend like I care,

738
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 5: and at the very least I'll be like Hey, let's

739
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 5: tell the black people in the story. Like that's as

740
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 5: far as their actual actions went. Was putting something on

741
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 5: Instagram that they obviously deleted soon after because they wanted

742
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 5: to look okay for one group of people. And I

743
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: found that interesting that people are met at Chick fil

744
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 5: A because it's like they're anti LGBTQ plus. So that's

745
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 5: not enough for you. They need to be racist all

746
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 5: of these things. For us to support you, you better

747
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 5: be super super racist and super super homophobic in order

748
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 5: for the conservatives, you can hate everyone except for white

749
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 5: as people. Yeah, if not, we're not gonna support you,

750
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 5: even if your chicken is okay.

751
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 3: So it and like this is a little like unrelated,

752
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: but like I think that with a lot of these people.

753
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 4: The Chick fil A example that you just gave is

754
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 4: a great example.

755
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 3: A lot of these people like just they'll find anything

756
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: to be aggrieved about. Like you know, I saw like

757
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: Cracker Barrel was adding plant based sausage to their menu

758
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: and people were like plant baited sausage. I'm not gonna

759
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 3: shop at Cracker Barrel and I'm never gonna go to

760
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: Cracker Barrel again. And it's like they're not taking regular

761
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 3: sausage off the menu. You don't have to order it

762
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 3: just because they're putting food on the menu that like

763
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 3: someone else might like, that's not you, that's cause for

764
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 3: for upset. And so another thing I wanted to say

765
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 3: about your point, Sam, is that there's a makeup company, Tart.

766
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 3: They got in hot water early this year because they

767
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 3: were doing these brand trips that looked as if they

768
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: were not being inclusive of black influencers. That they were

769
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: asking black influencers like after the fact to come and

770
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: like giving them substandard accommodations and all of that. And

771
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 3: somebody found that in twenty twenty, you know, they when

772
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 3: they posted their Black Square, this company was like, we

773
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: pledged that we're going to be more inclusive and give more,

774
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 3: do more partnerships with black and.

775
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 4: Brown models, and blah blah blah.

776
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: And then they quietly removed that from their website, but

777
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: somebody found it on the wayback machine. It was like, Oh,

778
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: let's get to update on all of these like very

779
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 3: specific commitments that you made. And it turns out that

780
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: they basically just like didn't do any of that stuff.

781
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 3: But the thing is, nobody put a gun to your

782
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 3: head and forced you to make these commitments. You made

783
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: these commitments and just to quietly be like, M just kidding,

784
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: Like that doesn't sit right with me, Like nobody told

785
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: you to do this, Nobody told you to post a

786
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: black square.

787
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: You did it, You volunteered to do it.

788
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 3: So when people expect a little follow through, that should

789
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 3: be that should be a given.

790
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I I think about this a lot too.

791
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: We talked about this with a lot of the like

792
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: what happened with blud Light, what happened with Target? And

793
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, then they just backtrack and make everyone angry.

794
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: But is I feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding of

795
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 1: in this case, what it's like to be a trans person,

796
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: and then when they get like a little taste of

797
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: that the company, it's like, oh my god, oh never mind,

798
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: Like they can't even just for that one second, like

799
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: if they get this online hate that the cause, the person,

800
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: the community they're saying they support gets they get it,

801
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: and then they're like never mind, Actually, can they have

802
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: that privilege that rite, that ability to step out and

803
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I don't want to deal with this anymore,

804
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: which I think is just very telling of ignorance and

805
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: just like a oh, sure, let's do this, and then

806
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: they get that hate and they're like, oh, oh never mind. Yeah.

807
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: Backtracking the Dylan Mulvaney thing that you just mentioned, the

808
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: thing that I will never be over is that Dylan Mulvaney,

809
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: when she left social media at the height of all

810
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 3: of this and came back and made that video, said

811
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 3: that nobody at bud Light even called her to be like, hey,

812
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 3: are you all right? Like I'm seeing what's going on.

813
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 3: I that is something that will stick with me forever.

814
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: That this brand, because she said happened to say yes

815
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 3: when asked to do a brand collaboration with bud Light,

816
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 3: she was had to go dark, had to probably go

817
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: into hiding, like was the target of very severe attacks,

818
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 3: and that bud Light, the company who came to her

819
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: to bring her into this, couldn't even follow up with

820
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: an email when they saw of this happening, how quickly

821
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: they abandoned her.

822
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: And I feel like, if you are a brand or.

823
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: An institution who is working with marginalized people, if you're

824
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 3: not going to stand by them when this stuf kind

825
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 3: of stuff happens and when they get into situations that

826
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 3: really like you have put them in but by offering

827
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 3: them this, you know, these partnerships, that's just not how

828
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: you engage people like that. Like at a certain point,

829
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 3: it's like, I understand that bud Light is a corporation,

830
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: and I don't expect corporations to like care about any

831
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: of us, certainly not marginalized people. But the people who

832
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: run bud lights marketing or influencer partnerships should really be

833
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: taking a good hard look in the mirror because that's

834
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: just like a failure of like how to be a

835
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: human to each other.

836
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: Like, I like that just sticks with me.

837
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 3: I could not believe that she said that that nobody

838
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: even ever reached out to her after they just like

839
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 3: dropped her and never ever followed up again.

840
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's going back to your point. You know,

841
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: companies are not big companies especially not are not allies,

842
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't think of them that way.

843
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: But they.

844
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: If they post the black square, if they take these stands,

845
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: if they say they're going to do something, then yeah,

846
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: they should absolutely be held accountable. That's just backing away

847
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: and causing real harm. We were telling you a story

848
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: before we started this out of nowhere, someone bought that

849
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: up and like making these things so politicized that just

850
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: to have a diversity inclusion person at your company becomes

851
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: oh well then hate, like all of this hate, like

852
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: you keep saying, it's irresponsible and it's not taking into

853
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: account like the reality of working with these groups.

854
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's ultimately what these people want. I

855
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 3: think that they want just working with a trans woman

856
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 3: to be a lightning rod.

857
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 4: She's not saying anything untoward, she's not doing anything untoward.

858
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 3: She just is because her existence is a lightning rod.

859
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 3: Her existence is politicized. I think just having a DEI person,

860
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: just providing a grant for black women, they want that

861
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: to be toxic. They want people to know that if

862
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: you do that, you might be in court, you might

863
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, be targeted for a hate campaign, and so

864
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: to just make it not something that anybody would want

865
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 3: to risk. And these companies are so spineless that they're

866
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: going along with it. It is that they're being held hostage,

867
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: and they're just like, Okay, well, they don't want us

868
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 3: to have the chicken sausage. They don't want anybody who

869
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 3: doesn't eat sausage to be fed at our restaurants, So okay,

870
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: we'll drop Actually Krecker Barrel did stand by their sausage choices,

871
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 3: I will say that, but it's like I have been

872
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: surprised by how these big, huge corporations just cowtow to

873
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: people who are not serious, people who are just interested

874
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: in and flexing their power, their political power, for no

875
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: real reason.

876
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 5: I mean absolutely, we see all of these things actually

877
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 5: hurting people. They don't even want to be the face

878
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 5: of anything. They just want to exist. Funds like Fearless

879
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 5: fund is to exist and to help and lift up

880
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 5: people that they know need lifting up. The same thing

881
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 5: with Target when they had the small businesses with the

882
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 5: LGBTQ queer content and then taking them off the shelf.

883
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 5: We were just existing and feeling like we wanted to

884
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 5: be the representation that no one else is willing to

885
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 5: look at or see or stand behind. And you literally

886
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 5: came after them, taking away their money, taking away their existence,

887
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 5: causing harm because again the mulvany thing, she was just

888
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 5: holding a beer. Yeah, she said, I like bud light, simple,

889
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 5: why can't she choose to do that? And that ended

890
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 5: up being a thing of like, well, she is hurting

891
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 5: the beer industry, she is doing these things. No, she's

892
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 5: just existing with a product that they sent her. They're

893
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 5: not like giving her fifty percent of the shares of

894
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 5: bud Light. Like that's what is happening, Like this whole

895
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: level of like what people are shoving to do and

896
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 5: they're having to come back and being like, instead of existing,

897
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 5: we have to fight for our place to exist, and

898
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 5: that's such an absurd ideal, like the fact that this

899
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 5: has to be done.

900
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 3: So this is what Tony Morrison says about racism, and

901
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: I think it fits to all of what you're saying.

902
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: The function, the very serious function of racism is distraction.

903
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you

904
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 3: explaining over and over again your reason for being. Somebody

905
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 3: says you have no language, and you spend twenty years

906
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 3: trying to prove that you do. Somebody says your head

907
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: isn't shaped properly, so you have scientists working on the

908
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 3: fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art,

909
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 3: so you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdom,

910
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary.

911
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 3: There will always be one more thing. So like that

912
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: quote really speaks to what I think is happening. You know,

913
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 3: the Fearless Fund. The stats that I just read about

914
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 3: black women entrepreneurs and how little of the funding we get.

915
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: It shows that the women who are running the Fearless Fund,

916
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 3: they have work to do.

917
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 4: They have serious work to do to right the.

918
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: Wrong and to bake a little more equity into the

919
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: funding landscape. So they don't really have time to play

920
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 3: around with these legal challenges. But yet here they are

921
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 3: having to spend their money, money that could go to

922
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 3: the funding landscape, staffing up a legal team, holding press conferences,

923
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: all of this. It is such a distraction at a

924
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 3: time when marginalized people have real work to be doing.

925
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 3: Fearless Fund is fighting back.

926
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 4: They have a.

927
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 3: Beefy legal team including the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Gibson Dunn, Crutcher,

928
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 3: and Ben Crump, the attorney who represented families of George

929
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: Floyd and Tyree Nichols in their civil suits over the

930
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 3: men's killing up the hands of the police.

931
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 4: And I feel confident like these women are like bad

932
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: as women. They are not going down without a fight.

933
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 3: But also they shouldn't have to write like they should

934
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 3: be able to just do their work and focus on

935
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 3: that work, and they should not have to be spending

936
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 3: their money on these fogus legal challenges just because they

937
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: want to exist, just because they want to support other

938
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: black women.

939
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 5: And I find that again we're in this situation that

940
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 5: black women are the ones that have to be the

941
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 5: ones to fight, like they don't want to. They're tired,

942
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 5: they've been doing this, and now we're back again because

943
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 5: we know there's a lot and I know there's a

944
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,720
Speaker 5: lot of fun specifically to women, like point blank women,

945
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 5: and they surely didn't have to go after them. And

946
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 5: I bet they were denied some of those and they're

947
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 5: probably better at that. But yet if they didn't, that

948
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 5: seems silly, and that seems very targeted. Yeah, so that's

949
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 5: very telling. But like it again, it has to be

950
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 5: the black women that has to put up this fight

951
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 5: in order to get anything done.

952
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 3: I mean, tail as old as time, right, and I

953
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 3: think right. I'm worried about this for a couple of reasons.

954
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: One is that I think that if these grants and

955
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: funds that specifically are meant to boost black women entrepreneurs

956
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 3: are deemed unconstitutional, I really don't know what the landscape

957
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 3: is going to look like because, as I said, like already,

958
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 3: so little of that funding goes to us in.

959
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 4: The first place.

960
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 3: But further, one of the reasons I wanted to talk

961
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 3: about it on the show today is that I don't

962
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 3: think it's getting near the same amount of traction and

963
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: attention that Blum's affirmative action challenges did. And I really

964
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: think that we need to see white male and white

965
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: women and really everybody in the startup space. We need

966
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 3: to see vcs and entrepreneurs speaking up about this, because

967
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 3: Blum is essentially arguing that the startup space should basically

968
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 3: just be for white people, and I think it's up

969
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: to everybody in the space to push back and say, like,

970
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: that is not the kind of funding space that we want,

971
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: That is not the kind of startup space that we want,

972
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: and to really make that really clear, like what kind

973
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: of a space do we want to have for the

974
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: next generation of entrepreneurs. We want to tell them that

975
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 3: the tiny little bit that they that might go to

976
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: them isn't even for them anymore. I don't I don't

977
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: think that's the space that we want.

978
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 5: Right and absolutely in the same space, again, this is

979
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 5: gonna hurt white women as well and the like if

980
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 5: we're saying that all of this is too specific and

981
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 5: it leads out other people of race. It's gonna hurt

982
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 5: gender as well. So this is not even just for

983
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 5: white people. It's gonna be for white men. We're gonna

984
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 5: have more elon musks running running programs into the ground.

985
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 4: That's what we're gonna been thousand percent.

986
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 3: And I mean kind of like what you were alluding

987
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 3: to before, time and time again in tech, particularly when

988
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 3: black women challenge things or do things or start things,

989
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: they uplift all women. And so even if that specific

990
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: program is for black women owned businesses, you're gonna tell

991
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 3: me that that a black woman who is financially supported

992
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 3: is not going to go on to do something that's

993
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 3: going to lift up all women and all marginalized people.

994
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 3: Time and time again we see that that's how it

995
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: goes with black women. And so yeah, I just think

996
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: that this is just this is me smacking that ice

997
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 3: cream out of my brother's hand when I could have

998
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 3: gotten a bite instead.

999
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,439
Speaker 5: I mean, we already know that people like to still

1000
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 5: white women's products because it's that good, So why not

1001
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 5: let us have it, Like, yeah, we're gonna get the

1002
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 5: good stop this.

1003
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 4: So I hope this is something that we I'm going

1004
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 4: to be following it.

1005
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: I'll give folks updates as they come, but I really

1006
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 3: want to see more folks in the space speaking up

1007
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: about this because what the Fearless Fund has done has

1008
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: been really great, and it's they're really.

1009
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 4: Like a good.

1010
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 3: Force in the space and I think the day we

1011
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 3: need them, frankly, we need them, we do.

1012
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 5: And it's it's a drop in the bucket, let's just

1013
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 5: be real honest, like it's it's nothing in comparison to

1014
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 5: what other people get, essentially, and it's like, wow, you

1015
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 5: really are going after the little groups for nothing, just

1016
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 5: just to make a point, and obviously to keep that

1017
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 5: little bit, as you were saying, in your pocket instead

1018
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 5: of seeing what this is actually could do for the

1019
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 5: entire humanity. Humanity is lost. I'm sorry what Yeah?

1020
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean this is very important too because

1021
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: obviously professional litigant blow here like it's going to keep

1022
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: trying and if this succeeds, then it's going to make

1023
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: things worse for everyone except for certain people and then

1024
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: easier for him to win the next thing and the

1025
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: next thing. So yes, this is really really important and

1026
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: thank you as always Bridget for bringing it to us.

1027
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for having me. Everyone who's listening should

1028
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 3: go out and buy stuff. I've never told you the book.

1029
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: I'd have bought it. Let's read it together.

1030
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're hoping to do a little crossover. We'll

1031
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: get to go on your show. Yes. Oh, I'm so excited.

1032
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the good listener

1033
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: find you?

1034
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 4: You can listen to my podcast there are no girls

1035
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 4: on the internet.

1036
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 3: You can find me on Instagram at Bridget Marie and

1037
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 3: DC or on Twitter at Bridget Marie. And you can

1038
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 3: find me on TikTok at Bridget makes Podcasts.

1039
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: Yes, and we really do. You appreciate your support with

1040
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: the book. We love it so much. Thank you, Thank

1041
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: you having you on. As always, feeling is so mutual,

1042
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: so listeners, if you would like to contact us, you

1043
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: can our emails Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

1044
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

1045
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: or on Instagram at TikTok at stuff. I never told you.

1046
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: We have a tea public store and we yeah, we

1047
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: have a book, a book, get it stuff. We should

1048
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: read books dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer,

1049
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: Christina Executive producer Maya and our contributor Joey. Thank you

1050
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening stuff on your pertilows

1051
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: direction of I Heeart Radio. For more podcasts on my

1052
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: heart Radio, you can check out the heart radio app,

1053
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or if you listen to your favorite shows,

1054
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: h