WEBVTT - Episode 13: Daniel Goes to an Arsenal Game, Germany Deep Dive and a Messy Messi Interview

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the way, and I'm John Green, I'm Danielle Alercon,

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<v Speaker 1>and today we're gonna be talking football, specifically, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about Arsenal because Daniel just got back from

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<v Speaker 1>a trip to London to see his beloved Arsenal football club.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we put it in a idiom shit the bed? Yeah? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was.

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<v Speaker 2>And how are you, John, I'm doing great, Thanks for asking.

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<v Speaker 2>It was terrible. It was absolutely miserable, miserable weekend of football,

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<v Speaker 2>wonderful weekend of seeing friends and of going to that,

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<v Speaker 2>going to the Emirates and all this stuff. And I

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot to say about it, but I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to get out of the way that that it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was possibly the worst I've ever seen Arsenal play ever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was pretty directionless and in fact, I think

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<v Speaker 1>they were kind of lucky to get back to one

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<v Speaker 1>to one and then they ended up losing two to one. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a World Cup podcast, we mostly talk about

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<v Speaker 1>national football, but in this case we need to be

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<v Speaker 1>talking about Arsenal because they are in pursuit of their

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<v Speaker 1>first league title in twenty two years. It would be

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<v Speaker 1>a huge deal if it happened, but Daniel insists that

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<v Speaker 1>he would not be disappointed if it didn't happen. He

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<v Speaker 1>would be just fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be just fine because I have a very

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<v Speaker 2>philosophical take on this and I don't expect.

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<v Speaker 1>To win, so I'm Peruvian.

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<v Speaker 2>And I really think I'll be okay. However, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say a couple of things. Well, I want to say,

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<v Speaker 2>even when you watch a terrible game of football, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're there, it's incredible, Oh my god, it's so good

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<v Speaker 2>because you really see how athletic these guys are. Not

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<v Speaker 2>the Arsenal players because they were barely moving, but the

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<v Speaker 2>Bournemouth players in this case, how technically gifted they are,

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<v Speaker 2>the way they move on the pitch to the extent

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<v Speaker 2>that they are moving at all. And also you really

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<v Speaker 2>sort of see the symbiotic relationship between the fans and

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<v Speaker 2>the team. And and honestly, I I'm not sure where

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<v Speaker 2>the panic came from, if it came from the manager,

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<v Speaker 2>from the players, from the fans, but together this triumvirate

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<v Speaker 2>of anxiety was really able to create a sense of anxiety.

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<v Speaker 2>I heard things said John that you made me blush,

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<v Speaker 2>and that Shakespeare would not have recognized Leo Trossar touches

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<v Speaker 2>the ball and this very nice looking lady behind me says,

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<v Speaker 2>go on, then do something, you fucking taught he He

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't even done anything yet, he hasn't even messed up.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was there was just so much vitriol and anger.

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<v Speaker 2>A woman told me that if she had a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>she would shoot the referee. Uh the he wore laughing, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and she said it laughing, and I was like, that

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<v Speaker 2>is really not okay, And I think that she either

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<v Speaker 2>to the level.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't even think the referee had a bad game.

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<v Speaker 2>He didn't, he didn't know he was. He was definitely

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<v Speaker 2>not the problem. The problem was the Arsenal players weren't moving.

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<v Speaker 2>And I say this because all teams have despicable fans.

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<v Speaker 2>Some teams have great fans, you know, the proportion of

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<v Speaker 2>them changes, and I think you can be a great

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<v Speaker 2>fan and a dispicable fan on the same day. But

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<v Speaker 2>it was It was both a lovely experience and a

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<v Speaker 2>sobering experience, and I really did learn a lot about

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<v Speaker 2>that relationship of anxiety between groups of fans and the team.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating, especially when a team is down in the

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<v Speaker 1>relegation zone like what's happening to Tottenham right now or

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening to my club Wimbledon is really interesting because

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<v Speaker 1>the panic starts before kickoff and the tension and the

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<v Speaker 1>pressure is just ratcheted up. And that especially when you're

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<v Speaker 1>when when when like Arsenal, you play these incredibly precise

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<v Speaker 1>passes and the speed of the game, you know, is

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<v Speaker 1>such that the movement is so important and and opening

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<v Speaker 1>up space is so important, and you just start to

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<v Speaker 1>mishit those passes a little bit because of tension, and

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<v Speaker 1>it just becomes impossible. Everything becomes impossible.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the ways I know you're a good friend

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<v Speaker 2>is that you brought up Tottenham to try to make

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<v Speaker 2>me feel better, and I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's that's really kind of you.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'll tell you who wasn't trying to cheer me

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<v Speaker 2>up everyone else, because it was my friend Juan Diego

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<v Speaker 2>and Ernando and we went we went on a long

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<v Speaker 2>walk to Hackney like sort of to like sort of

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<v Speaker 2>to process the game, and we're all wearing our Arsenal

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<v Speaker 2>gear and stuff. And I got so much shit from

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<v Speaker 2>so many people, strangers and cars, like people hanging out

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<v Speaker 2>of the bus y'all was shipped today, mate, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like all this stuff and it was so hilarious.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, just like when we finally got to this

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<v Speaker 2>Turkish restaurant. We none of my friend Nano lives in

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<v Speaker 2>London and he's been going to this Turkish restaurant for

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty years, and he was like, oh, we got

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<v Speaker 2>to go to this place.

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<v Speaker 1>It's you know, we.

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<v Speaker 2>Walked all the way over there and even though the

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<v Speaker 2>guy we walked in and like everyone was like whoa,

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<v Speaker 2>just like man man don. I don't know if you

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<v Speaker 2>heard the news on Friday that the former mayor of

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<v Speaker 2>New York City, Eric Adams, had obtained Albanian citizenship.

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<v Speaker 1>I did, and congratulations to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not to be dramatic, but if there's one thing

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<v Speaker 2>that could have made my weekend worse, it's if Eric

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<v Speaker 2>Adams had also become Peruvian. Like in terms of football,

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<v Speaker 2>like everything went wrong, everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Went wrong, and everything went wrong. Manchester City one going away,

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<v Speaker 1>Arsenal lost at home. Liverpool looked pretty good, which I

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<v Speaker 1>know is neutral for you, but still notice I.

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<v Speaker 2>Guess the only thing went well was that Tottenham lost.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's of little comfort That's how despondent I was

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<v Speaker 2>that I didn't even get much joy out of time

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<v Speaker 2>I'm losing.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you've gone from a potential quadruple, you know, winning

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<v Speaker 1>four different titles in one season, to a potential none upple.

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<v Speaker 2>Then upple is our specialty. So, like I said, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be fine. I can handle it. The abuse that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>getting on my five BOROUGHFC group chat is epic, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, I just have to take it. I

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<v Speaker 2>just have to take it because they're right. They're totally right.

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<v Speaker 2>We should be we should have won that game.

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<v Speaker 1>I still think Arsenal will win the league. I think

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<v Speaker 1>they have to win against Manchester City absolutely, not for

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<v Speaker 1>the number of points involved necessarily, just for the mental

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<v Speaker 1>part of it. I think they have to have a

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<v Speaker 1>mental reset. And I think playing, you know, sometimes playing

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<v Speaker 1>a really great football club brings out the best in

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<v Speaker 1>you because they want to be on the front foot more,

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<v Speaker 1>they're less counter attacking, da YadA YadA, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that might happen for Arsenal. I think that they're going

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<v Speaker 1>to beat City and I think that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>win the league, and I think that you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>have joy at the end of this. I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>you to deny yourself the joy Daniel in trying to

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<v Speaker 1>protect yourself from potential pain. I think that's a mistake

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<v Speaker 1>that many adults and teenagers make that young children don't make.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that young children have that one right.

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<v Speaker 2>So I should be more childlike approach it with the unfettered,

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<v Speaker 2>unhinged devotion.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>There's the phrase that you learn as an adult. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the hope that gets you, you know, it's the hope

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<v Speaker 2>that really hurts. And if you just don't have hope,

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<v Speaker 2>then you can't be hurt. And I've been hurt a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been hurt a lot in my life, in my

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<v Speaker 2>footballing life and my fandom, and I do think that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a measure of protection. But I also think

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<v Speaker 2>it's not just a measure of self protection here, John,

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of a big picture thing. Like I'm confident

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<v Speaker 2>that in my lifetime I will see Arsenal win something.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm also very.

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<v Speaker 2>Much of the mind the awareness that I, in my

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<v Speaker 2>immense privilege and good fortune, was able to take a

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<v Speaker 2>little junket weekend to London to see the game with friends, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's pretty correcial. Even when you lose, it's still special. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I went to the Barbicane and I saw this

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<v Speaker 2>Bettis Gonzalez, this famous Columbian artist, had a retrospective that

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<v Speaker 2>was incredible, ate good food. I stayed up till like

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<v Speaker 2>four in the morning, drinking wine, my friend there and

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<v Speaker 2>doing his wife Atlanta. I mean, it was like it

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<v Speaker 2>was great, you know. So it was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be fine. And the other thing is this

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<v Speaker 2>Arsenal is a team as all of anyone who's a

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<v Speaker 2>fan of anything. You know, I have been given moments

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<v Speaker 2>of immense joy by this team that are you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously winning a trophy is a greater joy which you've

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<v Speaker 2>experienced as a Liverpool fan. I have not in recent years.

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<v Speaker 2>Having said that, those special moments are also important, those

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<v Speaker 2>moments when I've jumped up to celebraty goal and hugged

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<v Speaker 2>my uncle Edgut or you know, hugged a stranger in

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<v Speaker 2>a bar, or you know. I mean, so it's all

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<v Speaker 2>a journey. It's all a journey, John, And this year

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<v Speaker 2>that journey maned in a trophy. It mayned in none,

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<v Speaker 2>and either way I will be a fan next year

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<v Speaker 2>and we go on and on and on and on.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'll tell you what, if they win the Nune

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<v Speaker 1>up all, I will give you a hard time. I promise,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna not gonna lay off you out of friendship.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go ahead and treat you like a regular

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<v Speaker 1>person and say that it is truly incredible the forces

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<v Speaker 1>that restrict Arsenal from achievement. And I think you're right

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<v Speaker 1>to say that it's the players, it's the manager, it's

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<v Speaker 1>the fans. And I remember this with Liverpool. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>Liverpool hadn't won an English Premier League title ever and

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't won you know, league in thirty years, and I

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<v Speaker 1>remember as as it got closer, the pressure would build

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<v Speaker 1>and build and build. And the only way Liverpool finally

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<v Speaker 1>got over that hump and won a title was because

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<v Speaker 1>they had like a seventeen point lead going into April

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<v Speaker 1>and there was no way they weren't going to win

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<v Speaker 1>the league, because otherwise the pressure would have inevitably gotten

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<v Speaker 1>to the players. You forget that people are human, You

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<v Speaker 1>forget that, like these elite athletes are just people who

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<v Speaker 1>feel the same thing we feel, who like go to

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<v Speaker 1>bed at night, like right now I'm trying to finish

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<v Speaker 1>the edits for my book. Not to compare myself to

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<v Speaker 1>Hector Bellerin, but like I'm trying to finish the edits

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<v Speaker 1>of my book, and I lay awake at night staring

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<v Speaker 1>at the ceiling. I wake up in the morning, the

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<v Speaker 1>first thing I think about is the book. The last

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<v Speaker 1>thing I think about at night is the book. The

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<v Speaker 1>stress is overwhelming. I know that I have these deadlines

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<v Speaker 1>I have to meet, and I know that, like, once

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<v Speaker 1>I'm done with this edit, I will never be able

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<v Speaker 1>to rework this book, and it'll be in print for

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<v Speaker 1>however many years, and for those years, I'm gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>to live with these fine decisions as I'm making them

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<v Speaker 1>right now. And that is real pressure. It is nothing

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<v Speaker 1>like the pressure of millions and millions of people, tens

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<v Speaker 1>of millions, maybe one hundred million people around the world,

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<v Speaker 1>from Colombia to Sierra Leone to North London, caring about

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<v Speaker 1>what you do on a football field, when you have

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<v Speaker 1>to be so precise in your movements and you have

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<v Speaker 1>to somehow get all that stuff out of your head,

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<v Speaker 1>like you've got to be d vaka RIGHI. You know

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<v Speaker 1>who didn't know it was the ninety fifth minute when

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<v Speaker 1>he scored the ninety fifth minute winners, right, Like, you

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<v Speaker 1>have to be that kind of person in order to

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<v Speaker 1>handle that kind of pressure totally.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will say that you could tell there was

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<v Speaker 2>the guys were feeling pressure on Saturday because they we'd

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<v Speaker 2>get the ball for throwing and it was often males

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<v Speaker 2>Luis Kelly who would be standing on the touch line

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<v Speaker 2>for like forty five seconds to a minute because he

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't find someone to pass to because everyone was paralyzed

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<v Speaker 2>with and they just won't.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>There these are people who know how to play the game,

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<v Speaker 2>they know how to do the movement, so there's some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of anxiety induced disconnect between their mind and their

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<v Speaker 2>body that is causing them to just freeze. And they

0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.080
<v Speaker 2>just stood there and the crowd is get getting more

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.199
<v Speaker 2>and more anxious because we you know, we just want

0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.200
<v Speaker 2>to get an early goal so we could you know,

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.679
<v Speaker 2>enjoy the afternoon, and it just never came. Yeah, it's

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.200
<v Speaker 2>all a journey. We're gonna be okay.

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 1>I will say that that Victor Yokerez takes a good penalty.

0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he puts his boot through. He doesn't think too much.

0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.480
<v Speaker 2>He's you're not going to see him attempt a panenka.

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you that we.

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Need to talk about this, not in this episode, but

0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.559
<v Speaker 1>before the World Cup begins. We need to talk about

0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.079
<v Speaker 1>the John and Daniel guide to taking a penalty, because

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:43.679
<v Speaker 1>you and I have the same worldview when it comes

0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.319
<v Speaker 1>to penalties. There's sort of, too broadly speaking, two ways

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.560
<v Speaker 1>of thinking about it. The pananka is on one extreme,

0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 1>but there's there's team plays it well and team kick

0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.000
<v Speaker 1>it hard. Yeah, And I'm team kick it hard. I

0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 1>mean kick kick, kick the stuffing out of the ball.

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because then even if it if you get

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 2>it on target, it'll go in most more often than not.

0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I did want to say one thing, but it does relate.

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>To the World Cup.

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.439
<v Speaker 2>Actually, John, that I noticed and almost like an asterisk

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 2>to add to your deep dive on England. Uh Man,

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>these players are totally knackered.

0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh they are. They are Declan.

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Rice like, I don't know where he gets the energy.

0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.720
<v Speaker 2>But his partner in the midfield, Martin Zubamendi, was one

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of the best players in the league. I think in

0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.520
<v Speaker 2>one of the signings of the summer through like November,

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.360
<v Speaker 2>and then since then he's just it's been a steady

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.400
<v Speaker 2>drop off, and he just doesn't have the legs. And

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's like a you know, one of those

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>first names on the team sheet kind of guys at

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>his club and for country, for Spain, and Spain is

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:52.079
<v Speaker 2>as a side known for its you know, historically it's

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 2>incredible midfielders, of which he is won. But if you

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 2>play them into the ground, they then then the there's

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.080
<v Speaker 2>nothing that you can do. You can't you can't overcome

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>the limitations of the human body, and these guys all

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>look just wrecked.

0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.320
<v Speaker 1>What I'm hearing is that the US men's national team

0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.440
<v Speaker 1>is going to win the World Cup with a bunch

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.800
<v Speaker 1>of MLS ers because they're going to have fresher legs.

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.679
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm hearing. And I love what you're saying.

0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I love your take.

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.760
<v Speaker 2>That was the subtext. I'm glad you can read between

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 2>the lines for that optimistic message of jingoism that was

0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 2>embedded in my analysis.

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's only why it's only jingoism when we're talking

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 1>about America apparently.

0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 2>All right, anyway, last thing, I appreciate you not condescending

0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>to me, and I expect and accept all abuse that

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I get. If Arsenal doesn't win anything, it shall be deserved.

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I will take it and I will accept it, and

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>it will fuel me next year.

0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 1>God speed, Daniel. We're going to come back with a

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.640
<v Speaker 1>deep dive into the German national team, speaking of not

0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 1>the freshest legs on. We're going to deep dive into

0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the German national team and what I think could be

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a tricky World Cup for them despite their strong history

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>as a world cupping nation. So we'll be right back.

0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>So Sean, if you could come on the screen real quick,

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>because I believe Daniel did not go to Italy with us.

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 3>That is correct. Daniel was not in Italy with us, but.

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>We went to Italy together in nineteen ninety four. And

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to say who was the trip of

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>a lifetime, but it was the trip of a lifetime.

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>We also, as you might remember, went to Switzerland.

0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 3>I do remember going to Switzerland. I'm very curious, very

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 3>very curious where this.

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not talking

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>about that, Sean. That's not their business, that's not the

0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 1>listener's business. But you and I both know what we're

0:15:59.240 --> 0:15:59.800
<v Speaker 1>thinking about.

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 2>What happens in Basil. In Basil as they say, I believe.

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 1>In this case it was los enn but yes, but

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.280
<v Speaker 1>look I am.

0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>I just want to say from Jump that I'm impressed

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>that you did not place me in this memory as

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>you you know, famously placed me inside memories of yours.

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh. Yeah, No. If there had been like a glowing

0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 1>light of joy in the memory, then I would have

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 1>known that you were there. But there isn't. There's just

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the glowing light of Sean, and so he loves quite

0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>large in the memory. Anyway, Sean. When we went to Italy,

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 1>which was not that long ago, I mean, admittedly we

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.720
<v Speaker 1>were we were younger than we are now, but like

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 1>we were old enough to be conscious and like friends

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 1>and we're still friends. Like you know, we had a consciousness. Yes,

0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Germany was one year old. We forget this. I forgot

0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.120
<v Speaker 1>this until I was doing the research and they kept

0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.640
<v Speaker 1>prattling on about West Germany and East Germany and I

0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.240
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, right, there was a Berlin wall up

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 1>for my entire childhood.

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 3>We arrived on the heels of history to Europe.

0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.400
<v Speaker 1>We did. And remember that everything costs like thirty five

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 1>thousand lira because of all the inflation in Italy at

0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the time. But yeah, we arrived on the heels of history.

0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 1>That's beautifully put, Sean. I'm going to put that in

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.240
<v Speaker 1>my new novel quick while I still have a chance to.

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 1>And I've been thinking about it because since nineteen ninety

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.679
<v Speaker 1>three or nineteen ninety two, or whenever Germany became Germany again,

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:46.120
<v Speaker 1>it has been an astonishingly successful side. You might remember

0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.119
<v Speaker 1>that guy Joachim Lowe who scratched his balls during the

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.919
<v Speaker 1>World Cup and then sniffed his hand. He was the

0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 1>manager for.

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.800
<v Speaker 2>A while, wasn't he the guy who maybe you don't

0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.199
<v Speaker 2>remember that, Oh I remember that. I remember vividly he

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.320
<v Speaker 2>picked his nose and eat it as well.

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Or is that a different manager I think he might have.

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 1>He is fascinated by the products of his own body,

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>which is a legitimate fascination.

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:16.560
<v Speaker 3>Is so great, Like my stomach is turning right now

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.359
<v Speaker 3>due to the scatological nature of this part of the deep.

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 1>But he does it all. He does it all like

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>on on the bench, Sewan, so like people can see,

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.000
<v Speaker 1>like the camera panned to him and he stuck his

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.439
<v Speaker 1>hand in his pants and then went wow. This is

0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.440
<v Speaker 1>giving a new meetings to the phrase deep dive. John

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.000
<v Speaker 1>he also, while we're talking about Yochim Low has the

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 1>single worst haircut among wealthy individuals on Earth. So like,

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.959
<v Speaker 1>obviously not everybody can afford a great haircut that's not

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>on them, but he can. And his haircut looks exactly

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 1>like like my eight nineteen eighty seven bowl cut, when

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.159
<v Speaker 1>my mom literally put a bowl on my head and

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.639
<v Speaker 1>cut around it, like that's what it looks like. He

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.639
<v Speaker 1>is no longer the manager. I'm not sure why I've

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.000
<v Speaker 1>devoted so much to the Deep Dive to him. The

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 1>current manager is Julian Naglesman, which is surreal for me

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.639
<v Speaker 1>because I remember Julian Naglesman as a player, and he

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 1>has a much better haircut and better personal hygiene so

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 1>far as I've observed thus far. But in twenty fourteen,

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.640
<v Speaker 1>this guy, Joachim Low led Germany to the World Cup,

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 1>and then in twenty eighteen they kind of bombed out

0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 1>in the group round, and then now they're very good.

0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 1>But there's two problems. Problem Number one is the problem

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.359
<v Speaker 1>that Daniel has identified, which is the legs problem. They

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of older players, right, so they've got

0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Joshua Kimmick as their captain. I mean, basically it's Bayern

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Munich starting eleven plus Antonio Rudiger. They have a stunning

0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.120
<v Speaker 1>number of players who play for Bayern Munich or else

0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>for Barusha Dortmund. And they've gone through a really long season.

0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:01.439
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Toaz thirty, Antonio Rudiger is thirty three three, you know,

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, these are not young players and they've gone

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 1>through a very long season, and they're gonna then. The

0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.520
<v Speaker 1>second problem this time around is that they're in an

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 1>exceptionally hard group. And I I worry that this team

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 1>that has won, depending on your worldview, either four or

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.959
<v Speaker 1>one World Cups, I worry that they're gonna be in trouble.

0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 3>John jumping in, can you will you tell us who

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 3>else is in their group?

0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.199
<v Speaker 1>So they've got curis L not the hardest opponent, but

0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.399
<v Speaker 1>then they have Ivory Coast and Ecuador. Now, probably the

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.119
<v Speaker 1>top three are gonna get through to the knockout rounds

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 1>because probably everybody's gonna beat Curs out. Everybody's gonna have

0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.120
<v Speaker 1>at least three points. Probably teams with three points will

0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.200
<v Speaker 1>make it to the knockout rounds, like the third place

0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 1>team with three points will make it to the knockout rounds.

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 1>But I genuinely worry about Germany against both Ecuador and

0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Ivory Coast. Especially against Ecuador. I think Ecuador is like

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 1>my sleeper team of the World Cup. I think that

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.119
<v Speaker 1>they could go to like the semifinals and assuming like

0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.479
<v Speaker 1>my so, I I think it's very possible that, like

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 1>by the quarterfinals or even by the round of sixteen,

0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.960
<v Speaker 1>Germany's up against somebody they they're going to struggle to beat,

0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:21.399
<v Speaker 1>whether that's Brazil or Spain or France, could be a

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 1>South American nation. I think they could be in for it.

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I think that this could be the year that we're

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.439
<v Speaker 1>talking about Germany as one of the early teams to

0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.480
<v Speaker 1>go out. Even though they're like I think, third favorites

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to win the tournament, I think they're fourteen to one

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.199
<v Speaker 1>to win the tournament, there's still I think they're going

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.960
<v Speaker 1>to struggle. So I have a few things to say. John.

0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:43.520
<v Speaker 2>One is I think that there's going to be a

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:44.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of teams that are going to go out early

0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.080
<v Speaker 2>because there's that extra round of thirty two. So there's

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.800
<v Speaker 2>going to be, yeah, you know, sixteen teams that are

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:51.680
<v Speaker 2>going to go out.

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Sixteen teams are going to go out in the round

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.639
<v Speaker 1>of thirty two, and they're all going to look like failures.

0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.240
<v Speaker 1>But that's just the nature of knockout rounds, right. I Mean,

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 1>some of them are going to be up against teams

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:04.879
<v Speaker 1>that are easily beatable, But if you finish second in

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.480
<v Speaker 1>a group you could get there. Especially if you finish third,

0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.200
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have a really hard knockout round game. Yeah,

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 1>So that's one thing.

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:14.159
<v Speaker 2>The other thing that I want to know is that

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I that I just build off your analogy of this.

0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.280
<v Speaker 2>It's basically the Byron eleven Bayern Munich starting eleven plus Rudiger.

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.520
<v Speaker 2>It's also the Bayern Munich starting eleven minus Harry Kane. Yes,

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.679
<v Speaker 2>which actually I think is a huge problem that I

0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:33.400
<v Speaker 2>see with Germany who's scoring the goals? Like who's there?

0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Who's there starting number nine? If you don't have Harry

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Kane up there because he happens to be English. I mean,

0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.399
<v Speaker 2>Kai Havertz is not really you know, you know, tearing

0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 2>up any trees this this season. He's coming back from injury.

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.480
<v Speaker 2>He's an odd duck as a as a as a nine.

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I love.

0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he is a nine. I mean I

0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.000
<v Speaker 1>was he a nine for Arsenal, like I feel like

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.400
<v Speaker 1>he's much more of a midfielder than he is a

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 1>pure out and out striker.

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I would point you to the evidence of the Bournemouth

0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 2>game to the contrary on that.

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:11.120
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't.

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think the best game that he played

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.240
<v Speaker 2>for Arsenal last season, when he was you know, when

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.680
<v Speaker 2>he played quite well, was as a nine, for sure,

0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, okay, yeah, no, for sure.

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean I think back to these incredible opportunistic strikers

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:33.640
<v Speaker 2>that Germany has had, like merciv Close or Muller.

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Thomas, Robert Mueller, but he was the the special count.

0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:43.800
<v Speaker 1>No Robert, special counsel for.

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>The the Yes rest in Peace. Uh yeah, no, so

0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>not Robert Mueller, Thomas Mueller. But these kind of like

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, engineers of space that could find little holes

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:00.520
<v Speaker 2>and all their goals were scored were one touches. And

0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm just wondering who among the current crop of German

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:04.679
<v Speaker 2>players can do that.

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 1>So let me offer up a few names. There's Nicholas

0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Folkrug who's now thirty three years old, plays for AC Milan.

0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:15.119
<v Speaker 1>He may not even get called up because he's a

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 1>I think a great striker. But he's not a young man.

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:24.400
<v Speaker 1>There's Nick Woltemadi who plays for Newcastle, who scores goals occasionally.

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.600
<v Speaker 1>He scores goals occasionally. I believe he has scored four

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:31.359
<v Speaker 1>goals for Germany. And then there's Dennis Undov who plays

0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:35.879
<v Speaker 1>for Stuttgart, who also scores goals occasionally, Like he scores

0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:37.919
<v Speaker 1>a fair number of goals in the Bundesliga, but he doesn't.

0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:42.439
<v Speaker 1>And I think he may be the guy. But I

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:43.879
<v Speaker 1>think you're going to see a lot of You're going

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.160
<v Speaker 1>to see Leroy Sana play, You're going to see serge

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:47.879
<v Speaker 1>Ganabri play like You're going to see a lot of

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.120
<v Speaker 1>goals come from midfield and out on the wing if

0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Germany have a successful World Cup. And sometimes you don't

0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.000
<v Speaker 1>need an out and out striker, right, I mean, think

0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.680
<v Speaker 1>about like the role that Roberto Fermino played in Liverpool's

0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 1>starting eleven for so along. He didn't score a ton

0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:04.080
<v Speaker 1>of goals, but he didn't need to because he created

0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:04.960
<v Speaker 1>a ton of goals.

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Or think about Olivia Jerux winning the World Cup for

0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.320
<v Speaker 2>France as the starting number nine without scoring a goal

0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:15.159
<v Speaker 2>in the tournament. That's also it's still very important player

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:20.040
<v Speaker 2>for very important tournament. Yeah, yeah, target man distributor, et cetera. Yeah,

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:21.959
<v Speaker 2>I'm interested to see what Germany does if they if

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 2>they I remember that when they went out in the

0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 2>group stage. I'm trying to think what year that was.

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Was that twenty fourteen, twenty eighteen they went in a

0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:34.160
<v Speaker 2>group stage. Yeah, so I mean it can happen, and

0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>you know they don't. It's been a while since that

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 2>phrase of like, you know, twenty two men kick a

0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.680
<v Speaker 2>ball around for ninety minutes in the Germans win. Since

0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 2>that phrase was like kind of inviolable truths, I think

0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 2>it's a little bit more flexible now. But I'm interested

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:50.200
<v Speaker 2>to see what they do. They have a lot of

0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 2>players that I like. Lucilla for example, it's one of them. Yeah,

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.360
<v Speaker 2>they have some fine players. We'll see, we'll see. Thank

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 2>you for that, Yeah, we'll see.

0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:04.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited to see how the World Cup pans out

0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 1>for Germany, but also for everyone. I'm finally letting myself

0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:09.640
<v Speaker 1>get really excited, Daniel. It turns out I am going

0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:11.400
<v Speaker 1>to one game. I just got tickets to a game.

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm starting to get fired up. When we come back,

0:26:14.720 --> 0:26:17.440
<v Speaker 1>we will talk about the most important photograph ever taken,

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 1>and until then, just imagine what it might be a

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 1>photograph of. And when we come.

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 4>Back, I will I will paint you a picture.

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, So I'm going to describe a photograph to you.

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Imagine a photograph of two men arm in arm, similar heights,

0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:56.399
<v Speaker 1>one of them wearing a chain like a necklace, a cool,

0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:01.360
<v Speaker 1>cool guy chain that looks kind of expensive, excellent postures.

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.879
<v Speaker 1>And then one of them is a beautiful man with

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:10.520
<v Speaker 1>a stunning, stunning head of hair, the perfect hairline, a

0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:16.240
<v Speaker 1>wonderful jaw line, a strong chin. I just as attractive

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.959
<v Speaker 1>as a person can be in a really tight T shirt,

0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 1>arguably a little too tight, except that he can pull

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:26.040
<v Speaker 1>it off, because of course he can. And that man

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 1>is Daniel, and an arm in arm with him is

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Lionel Messi, who has a terrible haircut, it must be noted,

0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and for some reason, it's wearing a Brian Fairy T shirt. Yes, yeah,

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:42.439
<v Speaker 1>so we're talking about we're talking about one of the

0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:48.200
<v Speaker 1>greatest physical specimens of all time and Lionel Messi exactly exactly.

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm here to tell the story of how this photo

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.680
<v Speaker 2>came to be, John, and maybe along the way I

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.360
<v Speaker 2>want to give our listeners a little relationship advice. You'll

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.640
<v Speaker 2>be able to see for yourself this photograph. I think

0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:02.720
<v Speaker 2>that as usual, John has described it in a way

0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:05.960
<v Speaker 2>which you know, what made him famous as a fiction writer.

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>But you'll be able to judge for yourself, So John,

0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Once upon a time there were many, many magazines that

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 2>were published the United States around the world. As you know,

0:28:16.600 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I've written for many of them. And magazines for our

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:23.280
<v Speaker 2>younger listeners are like very thin little books that were

0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 2>published on a regular.

0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Say, they're more sort of like printed out websites.

0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>There you go, yeah, printed out websites. Yeah, but now

0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:37.359
<v Speaker 2>the kids don't even go to websites, so it's.

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Like Instagram, but text based and printed.

0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And it was they were printed on a like

0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 2>on our schedule, right, So they are often known as periodicals.

0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:52.600
<v Speaker 2>And there was a specific niche among these that were

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 2>called glossies. And glossies were kind of the high end

0:28:56.960 --> 0:28:59.240
<v Speaker 2>fashion magazines. So you know, there was the regular magazines

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 2>or print on sort of regular paper, and the glossies

0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:05.080
<v Speaker 2>got their name from the glossy paper that they were

0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>printed on, nice shiny paper, the kind you'd want to

0:29:10.040 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, wrap a gift for your mom for Christmas

0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:16.160
<v Speaker 2>in you know, because it was kind of nice and

0:29:16.240 --> 0:29:18.680
<v Speaker 2>uh and they were kind of lucrative, right, yeah, And

0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:23.280
<v Speaker 2>just out of curiosity, Daniel, real quick, did you write

0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:29.800
<v Speaker 2>for these glossies or did you model for them? I

0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>have a very funny story about not modeling for them,

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 2>but uh, no, I've never written. I had never written

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 2>for a glossy magazine. I should say until the year

0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:46.160
<v Speaker 2>that I was engaged to be married. Now Godline and

0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I were engaged for about two weeks, and it just

0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:52.640
<v Speaker 2>so happened that in that period a glossy magazine finally

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>called me up. And these were these magazines that had

0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 2>they had so much advertisement that they were like thick

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:01.720
<v Speaker 2>with advertisement. They had to just sort of come up

0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:03.880
<v Speaker 2>with articles to fit in so they could have all

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.280
<v Speaker 2>this advertisements that they had to print. So Vanity Fair, Gqvogue,

0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 2>those are the glossies, and they paid I played so

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:14.479
<v Speaker 2>much money. Yes, one of these editors who worked at

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 2>one of these magazines called me up and asked me

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 2>if I was interested in writing a profile of Lionel Messi,

0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.240
<v Speaker 2>and of course I was interested. Huge soccer fan, blah

0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:24.080
<v Speaker 2>blah blah. The problem is that I was about to

0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 2>be married and the reporting trip would be then the

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:32.120
<v Speaker 2>week after my wedding, so terrible timing. But I talked

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:36.520
<v Speaker 2>it over Carolina and I was promised full access. So basically,

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I was told I would get to spend three days

0:30:39.320 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 2>with the world's greatest player. I'd get to see a

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:44.160
<v Speaker 2>training session, I get to go to a game at

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 2>the camp. No, I'd get to see what made him tick.

0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I'd get to talk to all his friends. I'd have

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.200
<v Speaker 2>full access. And I spoke with Carolina and she said,

0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>you gotta go, you gotta do this, and we would

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:54.480
<v Speaker 2>do the honeymoon later.

0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:55.800
<v Speaker 1>And yeah.

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 2>So basically, thirty six hours after my wedding, I'm on

0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 2>a plane to Barcelona. This was in the olden days

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.120
<v Speaker 2>when you didn't have Wi Fi on airplanes and everything

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 2>was better. I rid in New York, so I flew

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:10.160
<v Speaker 2>from San Francisco to New York. I checked my email

0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 2>and that's when I got the first blow, which was

0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>that I would no longer have three days with Lionel Messi.

0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 2>I would have a single day.

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 4>Now.

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I still thought a single day is good, you know.

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I was imagining us, like, you know, hanging out of

0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:27.040
<v Speaker 2>his house. Like playing Xbox or you know, FIFA or something,

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:31.320
<v Speaker 2>and then like going to eat some Argentine barbecue somewhere,

0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:35.120
<v Speaker 2>the grill and Barcelona somewhere, and then you know, riding

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>riding in his car to the practice. I don't know

0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:39.160
<v Speaker 2>what I was imagining, but you know, I was like,

0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>a day, that's still pretty good.

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 1>And then at the end of the night, he'd be like,

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 1>you know what, man, you're so cool. I'd like to

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 1>spend three days with you, like, cancel your flight back,

0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:49.000
<v Speaker 1>like we're hanging out. Yeah.

0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean I figured he'd probably you know, tuck me in,

0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:54.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, give me the guest room in his gigantic

0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 2>house south of Barcelona.

0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Sure, you know, to be lovely, and you'd get to

0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 1>know her as well, and then you and Carolina and

0:32:02.280 --> 0:32:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Lionel Messi and his wife would become fast friends.

0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, spend Christmas together, vacation together, that kind of thing.

0:32:07.720 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Normal stuff, normal stuff. So this is what I was imagining,

0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:15.280
<v Speaker 2>right anyway, So I was like, well, I probably can't, can't.

0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 2>I might be able accomplish that in a day, you know,

0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 2>it's fine.

0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I checked my mail.

0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Again when I got to Barcelona, and now it was

0:32:21.800 --> 0:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>no longer a day. It was an hour.

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:29.880
<v Speaker 2>So at this point, just to be clear for any

0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 2>husbands or wives out there that are sort of or

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>newlyweds who are trying to start up a marriage and

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>you're going to build a life together, I just want

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 2>to be clear that I had given up my honeymoon

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>to spend an hour with a soccer player. Yeah, it

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>was just beginning to dawn on me that this was

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the wrong way to start my marriage.

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Right. Well, but you weren't just spending an hour with

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:56.120
<v Speaker 1>a soccer player. You were also getting paid an obscene

0:32:56.120 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 1>amount of money to write about that hour. Sure, but wait, okay,

0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 1>so here's what happened.

0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I got to Barcelona and and I, you know, I

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>was like, well, I've got you know, I had planned

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 2>four days in town. Now I've got two extra days

0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 2>to report, So I'm just gonna report the ship out

0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 2>of this story, which is what I do. So I

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:19.640
<v Speaker 2>talked to everybody. I found the guy who took Messi's

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:22.479
<v Speaker 2>first photo. I d he has his little shop across

0:33:22.520 --> 0:33:26.719
<v Speaker 2>from from Lamasia back when Messi was a teenager with

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 2>like long hair, and he needed his his ID cards

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:31.160
<v Speaker 2>so we could enter the grounds. Of the stadium. I

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:34.560
<v Speaker 2>found the owners of the Argentine restaurant in the suburb

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:39.080
<v Speaker 2>where Messi had his has his gigantic home, and uh,

0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:40.880
<v Speaker 2>and I got to sit in the booth where Messi

0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:46.480
<v Speaker 2>sometimes goes to eat. He surrounds himselves with Argentines. Because

0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 2>if you've got to think about this, it's remarkable. Actually

0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Messi arrived as a pre adolescent to Barcelona. He never

0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:56.960
<v Speaker 2>stopped talking like an Argentine, like he he just was

0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:00.720
<v Speaker 2>militant about keeping his accent forever. Yeah, and it's just

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 2>And I should note because I spoke with learning out

0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.600
<v Speaker 2>of the Faccio who wrote this great book about about

0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Leo Messi and is an Argentine journalist living in Barcelona,

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that he's thrown us up with Argentine's and also specifically

0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:17.840
<v Speaker 2>with Argentines of Italian descent. And there was a player

0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:20.640
<v Speaker 2>actually I can't remember his name now, but he had

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:24.200
<v Speaker 2>a ponytail and he was on Barcelona that year and

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 2>they were like, the only reason he plays is because

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Messi likes him having him around, like his only reason

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.439
<v Speaker 2>he's on the team because he's Italian Argentine like from

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the same area, speaks the same language, and so it

0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:37.560
<v Speaker 2>makes Messi happy, so we gave him a contract and

0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:39.319
<v Speaker 2>so he could just be Messi's buddy on the team.

0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:41.799
<v Speaker 2>So I learned all kinds of really fun stuff like that.

0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Also heard some really remarkable anecdotes that are not suitable

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:51.520
<v Speaker 2>for a family podcast about Ronaldinho and his time in Barcelona.

0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>The long and short of it is that when the

0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:58.600
<v Speaker 2>club realized that Leo Messi was hanging out too much

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 2>with Ronaldinho, basically sold Dnio, who was, I gotta say,

0:35:02.560 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 2>is like the most electric player of his generation. But

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>they were like, we cannot let this man influence our

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:10.880
<v Speaker 2>golden boy. And Ronaldino of course went on to fame

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.080
<v Speaker 2>and fortune playing in a Paraguay.

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:16.080
<v Speaker 1>In prison with his brother.

0:35:17.400 --> 0:35:20.759
<v Speaker 2>And uh, anyway, that's a whole nother story. So you know,

0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:23.120
<v Speaker 2>I kind of got this tour of Messi's Barcelona with

0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Leonardo Faccho, who I mentioned before, and I learned this

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:30.480
<v Speaker 2>incredible fact which I love from from Leonardo's book, is

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 2>that even when when Messi was a boy, he wouldn't

0:35:33.080 --> 0:35:36.000
<v Speaker 2>speak in class, so he would actually they had to,

0:35:36.239 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, this kind of shared double desks, and he

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:41.520
<v Speaker 2>would whisper to the girl next to him and she

0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:45.120
<v Speaker 2>would speak for him, so he's kind of always always

0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>had a spokesperson. So anyway back to the scene at hand,

0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I finally do have my day where I get to

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go meet uh Luna and Messi and I

0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 2>get I'm told to get to the Portiva, which also

0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 2>known as Lamasia, around ten am, and I did punctually

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:04.200
<v Speaker 2>there and I get there and I'm like, hey, so

0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 2>you know I'm a journalist for this fancy glossy magazine.

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:11.480
<v Speaker 2>This has all been scheduled. Publicist editors have been negotiating

0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:15.880
<v Speaker 2>my arrival. Can I walk around Lamasia? No, no, well

0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.680
<v Speaker 2>you can't. I'm like okay, and they take me to

0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 2>this kind of press room and they tell me Messi

0:36:22.600 --> 0:36:24.919
<v Speaker 2>will be there in a few minutes. It's super hot.

0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:28.359
<v Speaker 2>This is like September. I was not given so much

0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.840
<v Speaker 2>as a glass of water. And I waited and I

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 2>waited and I waited, and then someone came in and

0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 2>told me that I'd be meeting Messi. Actually not then,

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:41.840
<v Speaker 2>but like before afternoon training. And I was like, okay,

0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:45.680
<v Speaker 2>so can I watch the training And They're like, no,

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.440
<v Speaker 2>absolutely not, you cannot watch the training. So right outside

0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the press room where I have there's like a little

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.880
<v Speaker 2>tiny balcony and I just kind of mentioned to this

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 2>guy that from the balcony I could see one of

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 2>the fields where the younger like you know, like you

0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.719
<v Speaker 2>sixteen teams of Barcelona are practicing. And I just kind

0:37:01.760 --> 0:37:03.239
<v Speaker 2>of mentioned it because I was just desperate to talk

0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:04.680
<v Speaker 2>to someone because I've basically have been locked in a

0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:10.680
<v Speaker 2>room at La Masia. And the guy was like, oh, no, no, no,

0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:13.239
<v Speaker 2>no no, you can't watch the kids train. You have

0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:15.439
<v Speaker 2>to stay in this room. You can't look out the window.

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 2>And I'm just like what the hell.

0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, what is this?

0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 2>So kind of like I kind of like am peeking

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:22.759
<v Speaker 2>out the window and I see Messi and the other

0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:26.400
<v Speaker 2>players arrive. They have super fancy cars, you know, Messi,

0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:30.040
<v Speaker 2>these players, John, You've heard all the names Messi, Piquet,

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Carlis Puyol, Cesc, Fabergas, Esta, Chavier Nandez. I mean, these

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:37.360
<v Speaker 2>guys are like living legends. And I'm talking about the

0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Barcelona with Pep. The Barcelona. That's like winning the league

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the Barcelona, it's like winning the Champions League. The Barcelona

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 2>that is like the height of that kind of like

0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:52.759
<v Speaker 2>amazing psychodrama of like Pep versus Mourinho. I mean, it's

0:37:52.800 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 2>just like these are the guys right, and naturally Messi

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.240
<v Speaker 2>did not come up to speak to me before training,

0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 2>and a little totem was sent up to tell me

0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:04.800
<v Speaker 2>that he would come after training. So at this point

0:38:05.200 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 2>training started like three. I've been there remever since ten,

0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I've resorted to go into the bathroom and just like

0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:13.879
<v Speaker 2>lapping water into my mouth out of the sink because

0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:17.719
<v Speaker 2>I have not been given anything. It me's nothing, you know,

0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm like eating like wadded up paper towels, just chewing

0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:24.719
<v Speaker 2>on paper just to trick myself like I'm starving. And

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 2>then I didn't know what had happened at training that day.

0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:31.439
<v Speaker 2>I found out later, but I could tell because I

0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:33.840
<v Speaker 2>am an astude judge of character. John As you know

0:38:34.760 --> 0:38:37.640
<v Speaker 2>that something bad had happened at training, and I'll tell

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:40.280
<v Speaker 2>you what happened. I kind of saw the players trudging

0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 2>off with this look of there but for the grace

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 2>of God, go I you know, this kind of like

0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, they had seen something. I found it later

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.799
<v Speaker 2>that the something they had seen was a young player

0:38:52.840 --> 0:39:00.400
<v Speaker 2>named iberhem Fli had torn his acl m and so

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.680
<v Speaker 2>I had of course, was not allowed to watch training,

0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:04.080
<v Speaker 2>so I didn't see any of this, but I could

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:06.279
<v Speaker 2>sense something was wrong. And that is one of those

0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:09.279
<v Speaker 2>things that I think really affects players' moods because they

0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:13.799
<v Speaker 2>know that all of them are one bad turn, one

0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:16.480
<v Speaker 2>injury like that away from sitting out for a year,

0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:19.759
<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah, and maybe, like in the case, we

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:22.600
<v Speaker 2>were here, maybe never quite being the same, never quite

0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:25.120
<v Speaker 2>being the same exactly, which is precisely what happened to Fla.

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:25.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, at this point, it's past six pm, so I've

0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:30.799
<v Speaker 2>been there for a full working day, nothing to eat,

0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:36.399
<v Speaker 2>super hot, and I'm not one to be dramatic, John,

0:39:36.719 --> 0:39:41.400
<v Speaker 2>but I was basically being held prisoner at the Barcelona

0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:43.960
<v Speaker 2>training ground by that point. That's how it felt.

0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:46.319
<v Speaker 1>It does seem like you were actually more of a

0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>prisoner than when you played in a Peruvie in prison.

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, there you go. Yes, And I'm glad you're

0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:54.560
<v Speaker 2>bringing it full circle because you see, you're seeing what

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing.

0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Man.

0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.280
<v Speaker 2>So finally it's just before seven pm when the World's

0:39:59.280 --> 0:39:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Greatest Player Final.

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:00.640
<v Speaker 1>He walks in.

0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:02.799
<v Speaker 2>We sit down at this table. It's this little silver table.

0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:06.120
<v Speaker 2>There's three chairs. It's me across from Messi and his

0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:08.600
<v Speaker 2>publicist is kind of in the middle, and so begins

0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the world's worst interview. He batted me away like I

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:20.600
<v Speaker 2>can't remember what I asked him, but you know, he's

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:22.480
<v Speaker 2>like he gave me his look like he'd rather be

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:24.799
<v Speaker 2>at the dentist, I mean, and just looking at me,

0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like disheveled and sweaty. And the tightness of

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:31.759
<v Speaker 2>my shirt that you mentioned, John, My shirt was a

0:40:31.800 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 2>normal size at the beginning of the day, but after

0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 2>like you know, eight hours of being held hostage at

0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the barnbers Blown training ground in like a hot September day,

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:43.920
<v Speaker 2>the shirt was just stuck to me, which is what

0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 2>you so kindly pointed out.

0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 1>And I asked my first question.

0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:52.000
<v Speaker 2>He said this thing, and I'm going to imitate an

0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:59.280
<v Speaker 2>artistein accent he said, Jay, which is basically like, dude,

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:01.640
<v Speaker 2>I've been asked this so many times, like you could

0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:05.960
<v Speaker 2>like he's rolling his eyes in like oh god. And

0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 2>it got worse from there. It just got worse, Like

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.279
<v Speaker 2>every single question was worse. And I had I had

0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:14.840
<v Speaker 2>prepared three days worth of questions John, and then I

0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.959
<v Speaker 2>have you know, I realized that something bad has happened

0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 2>at training. I realize that that he's not interested in

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 2>speaking with me. He doesn't know what a GQ is,

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.799
<v Speaker 2>or what a you know, Vogue is, or what a

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:31.520
<v Speaker 2>New York He doesn't give a shit.

0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:35.279
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't care. He's just like this weird guy who's

0:41:35.320 --> 0:41:36.759
<v Speaker 1>all sweaty, is sitting here.

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:38.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, he's like been waiting for me for eight hours,

0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:41.640
<v Speaker 2>like a freaking stalker, and now he's asking me dumb

0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 2>questions that I've been asked before, and you know, so

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:49.480
<v Speaker 2>he's just being monosyllabic, and at the end of it,

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 2>it's just like it's just devastating, you know. He basically

0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 2>the publicist just kind of calls time on it and

0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 2>it's done before he walks out. We take this photograph,

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 2>I asked the publicsers, Okay, we take a photograph, and

0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:03.120
<v Speaker 2>he said this thing to me. He's like, of course,

0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I know we all have feelings, uh and and uh

0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:14.040
<v Speaker 2>you know I I I it was. It was a

0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 2>very very humiliating thing to hear. So I took my photo.

0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Messy walks out immediately, of course, forgets the entire interaction

0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:28.880
<v Speaker 2>that I have never forgotten, and the publicists can sense

0:42:29.120 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 2>my humiliation, which is actually manifesting as physical pain. Like

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:35.839
<v Speaker 2>at this point, it's just like like, this is the

0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.360
<v Speaker 2>worst reporting experience of my life, possibly one of the

0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.840
<v Speaker 2>most humiliating experiences of my life at all, you know,

0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:44.279
<v Speaker 2>the whole of it. And then keep in mind I

0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:48.440
<v Speaker 2>skipped my honeymoon for this, right and uh and and

0:42:48.520 --> 0:42:51.360
<v Speaker 2>the publicist says to me, says, uh, you know, I know,

0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I know Leo really well. If you have any other questions,

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:56.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to answer for him in his voice, you know,

0:42:58.280 --> 0:42:58.839
<v Speaker 2>which is.

0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Way worse than if you just said nothing. Yeah.

0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:07.520
<v Speaker 2>It just shatters all all you know, norms of reporting

0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:11.400
<v Speaker 2>and ethics. I teach journalism. You can't do it, you know.

0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:14.799
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I so needless say. I wrote my

0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:18.520
<v Speaker 2>draft in which I included that moment, and I sort

0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:20.400
<v Speaker 2>of created this kind of like, you know, Frank Sinatra

0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:23.799
<v Speaker 2>has a cold situation where you're writing around the limitations

0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:28.760
<v Speaker 2>of the celebrity, right, And then got a very kind

0:43:29.640 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 2>she wasn't that kind, a very efficient, carefully worded email

0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 2>from editor saying that the article was not going to

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:40.040
<v Speaker 2>be published, and then I could kindly take my kilfee

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 2>and go away.

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Uh, and so rude.

0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I have never written for a glossy magazine, John, and

0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:50.160
<v Speaker 2>that was as close as I got.

0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I also have never written for a glossy magazine. But

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't have to fly to Barcelona, did not have

0:43:55.640 --> 0:43:56.400
<v Speaker 1>that experience.

0:43:58.239 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I did go to get to go to a game

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.279
<v Speaker 2>at the cap Noll, and I did get to go

0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:06.439
<v Speaker 2>to a press conference with Pep, which was pretty cool.

0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:08.200
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't It wasn't all bad.

0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:12.919
<v Speaker 1>The emotional distance though between I'm going to spend three

0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:18.280
<v Speaker 1>days with Lionel Messi and I'm going to spend fifteen

0:44:18.400 --> 0:44:23.640
<v Speaker 1>incredibly bad minutes with Lionel Messi. Yea is. It's quite

0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:27.120
<v Speaker 1>a delta. It is, and it's it's very.

0:44:26.960 --> 0:44:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Instructive, and I think it really you learn a lot

0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:33.279
<v Speaker 2>about humility. And also I think it has shaped in

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:35.600
<v Speaker 2>some ways the kind of journalism that I do, Like

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't do any journalism with famous people.

0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.120
<v Speaker 1>You know, you interviewed me once. I remember for an

0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:43.360
<v Speaker 1>article you were writing, and when you interviewed me, you

0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:45.359
<v Speaker 1>were great. I was very impressed. I thought you did

0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:49.080
<v Speaker 1>a very thorough job. At no point did I did

0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I feel like saying I've been asked this question a

0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:56.680
<v Speaker 1>million times before, so to police, please know that you've

0:44:56.680 --> 0:44:59.560
<v Speaker 1>got fans. It's just a messy, isn't one of them.

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:02.120
<v Speaker 2>That's fine, that's fine because I still have the photograph

0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:03.960
<v Speaker 2>which proves we're best friends.

0:45:07.200 --> 0:45:09.839
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's interesting to like, it is a really

0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>interesting conundrum. What do you do with that fifteen minutes

0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.680
<v Speaker 1>when you have to write the article, right, like you

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.359
<v Speaker 1>have to write the article. You don't want to. You

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:20.720
<v Speaker 1>do want to assume, like, hey, Messi has bad days

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:24.320
<v Speaker 1>just like everyone. Frank's not sure a cold style, and

0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:30.640
<v Speaker 1>also this was an unusually bad day. But you also

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of want to write about the machine that's trying

0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:36.719
<v Speaker 1>to make you know, Messi into a global international superstar

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:41.160
<v Speaker 1>and trying to make him into an American celebrity as

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:45.080
<v Speaker 1>well as a global celebrity. And it's just so hard,

0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:47.319
<v Speaker 1>like when you have so little to work with, it's

0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:49.200
<v Speaker 1>so hard, it is.

0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:51.200
<v Speaker 2>And actually, John, there's something really interesting that you I'm

0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:54.520
<v Speaker 2>glad you mentioned that because it reminds me that it

0:45:54.560 --> 0:45:58.000
<v Speaker 2>wasn't just that the publicist said, let me give you

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Messy quotes and you run them as if they were

0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:05.040
<v Speaker 2>quotes from him. They also wanted me to say that

0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:09.480
<v Speaker 2>we had spoken at an Argentine training camp, because the

0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:12.880
<v Speaker 2>club has certain rules about what when the players can

0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:15.960
<v Speaker 2>speak and when they can't, which is why you get

0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:18.560
<v Speaker 2>these situations where players leave their clubs, go to their

0:46:18.640 --> 0:46:22.160
<v Speaker 2>national teams and then give some incendiary quote to like

0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a local you know, local journalists, like you know, another

0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Argentine Enzo Fernandez from Chelsea goes away on international duty

0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 2>mentions that he likes Madrid and then like all Hell's

0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:37.800
<v Speaker 2>breaks loose because it's interpreted as this kind of slight

0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:41.520
<v Speaker 2>to the city of London and Chelsea and whatever. So

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.240
<v Speaker 2>they wanted me to lie not only with like quotes

0:46:44.239 --> 0:46:46.560
<v Speaker 2>that were made up, they wanted me to say that

0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:48.360
<v Speaker 2>the quotes that were made up had happened in a

0:46:48.400 --> 0:46:51.560
<v Speaker 2>place that they hadn't happened, where I would not be right.

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:55.440
<v Speaker 2>All of that went into my draft, which might be

0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:58.600
<v Speaker 2>why my peer, that might be why they killed it.

0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Man. Yeah, yeah, I've been on the other side of

0:47:03.239 --> 0:47:07.799
<v Speaker 1>that coin. Not on a messy scale obviously, but on

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:14.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, the complicated relationship between publicists and the reporters

0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:19.160
<v Speaker 1>they work with scale. And that's what my novel is about,

0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:28.400
<v Speaker 1>because it is a really strange complex exchange of access

0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:33.280
<v Speaker 1>and information, and you know, on some level you're trading

0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:36.439
<v Speaker 1>your private life for public praise. And it's messed up, man,

0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:40.200
<v Speaker 1>it's really messed up. And good on you for having

0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:43.799
<v Speaker 1>the proper journalistic ethics in that moment.

0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Or the lack of journalistic tops to be unable to

0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:52.560
<v Speaker 2>elicit an interesting question or interesting response out of Lianel Messi.

0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:58.160
<v Speaker 2>But I did feel like I felt like a defender,

0:47:58.520 --> 0:48:01.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a hapless defender going up against you know,

0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:05.960
<v Speaker 2>against a Messi, you know, in the game incidentally that

0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw, he played against the Athletico Madrid when Falcao

0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:12.879
<v Speaker 2>was on Madrid, and so it was bill they were both.

0:48:12.960 --> 0:48:14.759
<v Speaker 2>It was relatively in the season. They were both at

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 2>the point like point like the joint top scorers in

0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the league. Messi scored a hat trick and also scored

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:22.879
<v Speaker 2>a fourth goal that was an own goal just because

0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:24.960
<v Speaker 2>he ran out of player and the player panicked and

0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:26.040
<v Speaker 2>shot it into his own net.

0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:29.279
<v Speaker 1>Uh one f.

0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:35.520
<v Speaker 2>And Falcao did not have a touch like in the

0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:37.279
<v Speaker 2>bottom he didn't have a dangerous touch the whole game.

0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:56.279
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So that's life, that's life.

0:48:57.280 --> 0:48:57.960
<v Speaker 1>Let's just some mail.

0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, let's do it now. Okay, hey guys,

0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:02.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm loving your podcast. I always had this take, and

0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if it's a hot one. I think

0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:07.920
<v Speaker 2>all of America, North and South should play for the

0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:11.960
<v Speaker 2>World Cup spots. For all the spots, not separate CONCA,

0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:15.239
<v Speaker 2>CAF and South America. I think quote unquote powerhouses like

0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:17.879
<v Speaker 2>Mexico and the US would struggle to qualify, and more

0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:20.600
<v Speaker 2>South American teams may go to the World Cup. Curious

0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:23.879
<v Speaker 2>to hear your thoughts. Keep up the good work, Randy thoughts.

0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:27.520
<v Speaker 1>John Well, I'm opposed to it because it would make

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.759
<v Speaker 1>it so much harder for the US and Mexico to qualify,

0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:33.680
<v Speaker 1>But I'm in favor of it in the sense that

0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:35.560
<v Speaker 1>it would lead to there being better teams in the

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:39.880
<v Speaker 1>World Cup. I genuinely think the US, like if South

0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.800
<v Speaker 1>America had four and a half more spots, I think

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the US would qualify. I think it would be really

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:50.520
<v Speaker 1>hard for Honduras, for Costa Rica, for Jamaica to qualify.

0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:55.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, certainly Cursou would struggle, but I think, you know,

0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:59.919
<v Speaker 1>even with more spots, it would be hard for those

0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:04.200
<v Speaker 1>smaller countries in North America and I but I see

0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the argument because isn't the World Cup supposed to be

0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:14.240
<v Speaker 1>the best forty eight teams coming together to play a tournament,

0:50:14.360 --> 0:50:17.560
<v Speaker 1>or is it ultimately supposed to be the world's teams

0:50:17.600 --> 0:50:19.760
<v Speaker 1>coming together to play a tournament. I guess that's the question.

0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:24.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, I'm gonna say that it's already difficult for Costa.

0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:25.279
<v Speaker 1>Rica and al Duas and Guatemala.

0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:26.879
<v Speaker 2>Then to make it a qualify for a little cust

0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:31.719
<v Speaker 2>that isn't a huge change. And I just think that

0:50:31.760 --> 0:50:35.360
<v Speaker 2>you could go if you push the logic of this question,

0:50:35.920 --> 0:50:38.279
<v Speaker 2>then you basically end up having a you know, a

0:50:38.360 --> 0:50:41.160
<v Speaker 2>two hundred team World Cup, and which we have a

0:50:41.160 --> 0:50:43.719
<v Speaker 2>World Cup. We have a World Cup the last two

0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:46.560
<v Speaker 2>years just to qualify for the World Cup with forty

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:48.120
<v Speaker 2>eight teams, And that seems to me.

0:50:48.400 --> 0:50:54.839
<v Speaker 1>Don't tempt me with a good times. I just don't.

0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I I think that there's you know, look, I don't

0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:02.200
<v Speaker 2>think of that help Peru qualify. I do think we

0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:04.240
<v Speaker 2>would make it hard of the United States to qualify.

0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:12.360
<v Speaker 2>I think there's something about also these long international rivalries

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>that last generations, like uh yeah, Peruchile, you know, pu Parauay, Peru, Columbia,

0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:21.160
<v Speaker 2>pre Epidoor, all the you know, all the countries we play,

0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:26.720
<v Speaker 2>we have the major major rivalries and global football. Yeah, exactly, exactly,

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:27.680
<v Speaker 2>that's precisely what I mean.

0:51:27.960 --> 0:51:31.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I got another question from Fletcher, who writes hig Guys.

0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for the pot. I think John has used the

0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:34.719
<v Speaker 1>word ultra to refer to himself a couple of times.

0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:37.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm from Scotland, where that term has a specific and

0:51:37.600 --> 0:51:40.719
<v Speaker 1>not positive definition. I was wondering what that word means

0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:42.239
<v Speaker 1>to both of you and how you think the current

0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:45.880
<v Speaker 1>ultra phenomenon FIST and the wider super fan culture. Fletcher. Fletcher,

0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:50.200
<v Speaker 1>first off, thank you for listening. Secondly, I was my

0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:53.880
<v Speaker 1>high school team's ultra that that is like a specific

0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:57.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of ultra. I'm not I'm not saying that I like, uh,

0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:01.080
<v Speaker 1>break glass bottles and grind them into heads of opposing players.

0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:04.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying that when I was fourteen, I went to

0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the away games. That's my definition of ultrum. Yeah.

0:52:09.440 --> 0:52:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's a certain tongue in cheek quality

0:52:12.040 --> 0:52:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the way you were using the word, which I admire.

0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm trying to communicate is a level of

0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:20.279
<v Speaker 1>a level of tongue in cheakness to it. I will

0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:25.239
<v Speaker 1>say that the part of football culture, like there's that

0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:28.120
<v Speaker 1>great Bill Buford book among the thugs about traveling with

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Manchester United supporters, and the part of football culture that

0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:36.759
<v Speaker 1>would act violently or you know, in any way that

0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:41.600
<v Speaker 1>isn't in good fun toward other fans and their fan

0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:47.760
<v Speaker 1>communities is reprehensible. Anytime you take it outside the world

0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:53.759
<v Speaker 1>of we're here to have a good time, it's it

0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:56.799
<v Speaker 1>misses the point of sport. To me, the point of

0:52:56.840 --> 0:53:00.160
<v Speaker 1>sport is to have those rivalries and those conflicts in

0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:05.120
<v Speaker 1>a completely peaceful, peaceable way. And if you start to

0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:11.160
<v Speaker 1>treat your football club identity like like a reason to

0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:13.719
<v Speaker 1>go to war, you missed the point of football to me.

0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean I I think I've said this before,

0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:20.080
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like the World Cup is one of

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:26.600
<v Speaker 2>the few places where I love and celebrate nationalism. And

0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that that the kind of jingoism, which is

0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:35.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of the fiercer, less palatable cousin of nationalism is

0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:39.760
<v Speaker 2>uh is kind of the distortion of that kind of fandom,

0:53:39.800 --> 0:53:41.759
<v Speaker 2>which I don't like. But I'm with you. I think

0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:44.200
<v Speaker 2>it's all in good fun. And and and John was

0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:48.759
<v Speaker 2>a great ultra, a great fan, but certainly we use

0:53:48.800 --> 0:53:52.279
<v Speaker 2>the words in tongue in cheek to describe what it

0:53:52.360 --> 0:53:54.480
<v Speaker 2>was like to have a single fan away at a

0:53:54.560 --> 0:53:58.439
<v Speaker 2>high school game. Magical, magical, drawn.

0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:00.760
<v Speaker 1>You mean they can't put me on the under the bench,

0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:01.520
<v Speaker 1>but they didn't.

0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, So Lily asks the following, what is the

0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:10.200
<v Speaker 2>best way to score or tally your World Cup brackets

0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:12.520
<v Speaker 2>to declare a winner? I have a bet established, but

0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:14.520
<v Speaker 2>we haven't figured out the numbers yet. I have added

0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:17.480
<v Speaker 2>a golden goal type rule where, regardless of brackets, whoever

0:54:17.480 --> 0:54:20.200
<v Speaker 2>calls the winner of the World Cup automatically wins. My

0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:23.480
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend I happy they've selected two different winners, and whoever

0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:26.640
<v Speaker 2>correctly predicted will feel like a winner regardless. He happily

0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:28.680
<v Speaker 2>agreed to this auto win given that he picked Spain

0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.279
<v Speaker 2>and I picked Norway. But he's an Arsenal fan and

0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:34.399
<v Speaker 2>they manage to find a way to lose all the time.

0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for that, Lily. That really stings, given today's

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:46.440
<v Speaker 2>content of today's show. I think that's a I think, Lily,

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:48.960
<v Speaker 2>not to side with your Arsenal loving boyfriend, but I

0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:53.799
<v Speaker 2>do think that he has a greater chance of being

0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:58.359
<v Speaker 2>right here than you do. Spain is definitely one of

0:54:58.360 --> 0:55:01.160
<v Speaker 2>the candidates to take it all. I don't know if

0:55:01.200 --> 0:55:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I can say the same about Norway.

0:55:02.920 --> 0:55:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Depends how erly Holland fares, but yeah, I would have

0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:08.960
<v Speaker 1>to be a hell of a tournament for him. Yeah. Yeah,

0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:11.440
<v Speaker 1>I've been thinking about this, Daniel, because you and Sean

0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:14.279
<v Speaker 1>and I are going to do this and there is

0:55:14.320 --> 0:55:17.280
<v Speaker 1>a small chance. And the deal is that whoever wins

0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:21.439
<v Speaker 1>gets their name in the other person's book, unless Sewn wins,

0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:23.239
<v Speaker 1>in which case he gets his name in both of

0:55:23.239 --> 0:55:26.480
<v Speaker 1>our next books. Yeah, and so I've actually asked the

0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:29.520
<v Speaker 1>printer of my new book, Hollywood Ending, what the last

0:55:29.760 --> 0:55:33.319
<v Speaker 1>date possible is for me to make one change, And

0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:35.960
<v Speaker 1>that change would be to insert one of your names

0:55:36.080 --> 0:55:38.520
<v Speaker 1>into the book. I even know where it would go,

0:55:38.680 --> 0:55:41.399
<v Speaker 1>like I know what page it's on, and you would

0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:48.080
<v Speaker 1>be a movie director. And I am excited about this possibility.

0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:52.440
<v Speaker 1>But if it goes all the way to the final,

0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure that I'll be able to do it,

0:55:54.640 --> 0:55:58.160
<v Speaker 1>just timing wise, because the book will get oppressed too quickly.

0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:02.520
<v Speaker 1>But if someone's got a really really big lead going

0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:04.600
<v Speaker 1>into the final, then I think I can, like a

0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:06.880
<v Speaker 1>week before be like well it's going to be Daniel.

0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you could just insert it just now because

0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:13.560
<v Speaker 2>you just just becuz, you know, just just in case

0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:14.520
<v Speaker 2>to cover yourself.

0:56:15.040 --> 0:56:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I could. It's not a bad idea. Actually, why not?

0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:21.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean you have you have the name of a

0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:24.200
<v Speaker 1>movie director, Sean has the name of an actor. I could.

0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:26.799
<v Speaker 1>I could squeeze them both in. Yeah, squeeze them in.

0:56:27.080 --> 0:56:30.319
<v Speaker 1>Why not? But no, no, no, let's not. Let's not. Let's not. No. No.

0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:34.280
<v Speaker 2>I think I like this kind of golden goal situation,

0:56:34.320 --> 0:56:35.520
<v Speaker 2>but I don't think that's what we need to do.

0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:38.239
<v Speaker 2>We need to do sort of accumulation of points game

0:56:38.280 --> 0:56:38.640
<v Speaker 2>by game.

0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Do you get one point for every game you get right?

0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Or do you get more points if you get I

0:56:43.080 --> 0:56:45.040
<v Speaker 1>think you get one point for every game you get right,

0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and then do you recede it after the first round.

0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Let's not forget let's you have to make a role.

0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Let's not figure it out on the airth I mean, Daniel,

0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:55.719
<v Speaker 1>you've always got such good ideas.

0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, A key one being not to you know, sort

0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:03.799
<v Speaker 2>of like start elaborating, you know, spitfire ideas that are

0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:07.480
<v Speaker 2>half formed on tape in front of our millions of fans.

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:08.200
<v Speaker 1>We don't want to.

0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:11.319
<v Speaker 2>We will spare you guys all of that. Those are

0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:13.760
<v Speaker 2>the questions we have. We have a special guest next week,

0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:17.120
<v Speaker 2>John Yeah, and that's gonna be very exciting. He's gonna

0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:19.840
<v Speaker 2>join us for the mail bag section. I also want

0:57:19.840 --> 0:57:23.800
<v Speaker 2>to mention about Arsenal. This comes out Wednesday morning. We're

0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:27.080
<v Speaker 2>recording on a Monday Wednesday afternoon. Arsenal has a chance

0:57:27.120 --> 0:57:29.520
<v Speaker 2>to reset their season and make make it to the

0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Champions League semifinals. So I will either be by the

0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:36.480
<v Speaker 2>time you hear this, you know, once more sort of

0:57:36.480 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 2>inhabiting in a fancy land of hope, or I will

0:57:39.680 --> 0:57:43.320
<v Speaker 2>be even more despondent. And you in the future already

0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:46.840
<v Speaker 2>know and I currently do not, So that's exciting. I

0:57:46.880 --> 0:57:50.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know emails at away ndpod at gmail dot com,

0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:50.959
<v Speaker 2>anything else done.

0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:53.040
<v Speaker 1>No, just thanks for all your emails away in pod

0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:54.840
<v Speaker 1>at gmail dot com. It's great to hear from you.

0:57:54.960 --> 0:57:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to Sean and Kurt for making the podcast happen,

0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:00.000
<v Speaker 1>and we'll see you next week.

0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Take care,