1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe Table for a production of I 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. Artists coming together in 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: the restaurant, you know, and the casso drawn on the 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: table cloth and all that kind of thing. It's really 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: known throughout history, but it is to do with the 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: solitary nous of being in the studio and the solitariness 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: of being an artist, being very much alone. So this 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: idea of coming together to eat is such a nice thing. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Here we are and unseasonably wet and cold Saturday in London, 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: but I feel warmed, as I always am, by being 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: with my friend Tracy Emmon. She's a great friend and 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: a great artist. Tracy, over to you, okay, so I'm 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: My favorite thing to eat here is the grilled squid 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: with shred, chili and rocket. Eight medium squid no bigger 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: than your hand. Six large fresh red chilies, seeded and 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: very finely chopped, a hundred and fifty meal, extra virgin oil, 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: two DRAMs of rocket, four tablespoons of oil, and lemon dressing. 18 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: One lemon cut into quarters to make the sauce. Put 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: the chopped chilies in a bowl and cover with extra 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: virgin olive oil, season heat a grill until very hot. 21 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: Place the squid, including the tentacles, scored side down on 22 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: the grill. Season and grill for two minutes. Turn a 23 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: squid pieces over. They will immediately curl up and by 24 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: which time they will be cooked. Toss the rocket in 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: the dressing. Arranged two squid bodies with tentacles on each 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: plate with the rocket. Put a little of the chili 27 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: sauce over the squid, and serve with lemon. I'm so 28 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: happy that you chose such a class typically representative of 29 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: the river cafe recipe, and I was wondering why you 30 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 1: chose squid chilian rocket. When I go to a restaurant, 31 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: I always like to choose food that I wouldn't cook myself, 32 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: but god, it's so easy to cook, so maybe I 33 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: should do it. But then, and also, I'm Mediterranean, so 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: um squeet is such a Mediterranean food, and I always 35 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: have this sort of light in a primal thing that 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: if I can eat Mediterranean, eat part of my ancestral 37 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: food as much as possible, it makes me feel really 38 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: good when I eat it, So that's why I chose it. 39 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: When you say that you're Mediterranean, tell me about being Mediterranean. 40 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: Because I thought you were a market. Well Margaret is yeah, 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: Margaret Mediterranean market. And well I'm Turkish Cypriot. My dad's 42 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: Turkish Cypriot and my great grandfather was from the Sudan 43 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: and he was a slave in the Ottoman Empire and 44 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: around eighteen, I don't know, about nineteen hundred he was 45 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: given his freedom in Cyprus with fifty sheep. So we're 46 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: known as the there's a thing called like the Black Turks, 47 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: and they actually came from the slaves from the Ottoman Empire, 48 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: and my family on Mediterranean side is from that background, 49 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: so um, there's your Mediterranean. My dad was really fantastic cook, 50 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: like amazing cook. Grew all his own vegetables. We actually 51 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: grew all our ound. Me and my dad grew all 52 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: up all my vegetables on my studio roof back in 53 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: the nineties. Everything everything from cucumbers, grigettes, ob jeans, potatoes, tomatoes, 54 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: heritage tomatoes, beans, green beans, everything, and then my dad 55 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: would cook so and my mom was a terrible cook. 56 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: I hate saying it, both it's true. And the kind 57 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: of food I grew up on was a kind of 58 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: strange mixture of like this sort of really amazing food 59 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: that my dad could cook, and this really terrible food 60 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: that my mom could cook that I really loved, and 61 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: what you loved mother's food, egg and chips. My mom 62 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: was completely against me cooking, and when we were cooking 63 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: at school, my mom would actually wrote me letters saying, 64 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: my daughter will not learn to cook. My daughter is 65 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: not going to be a slave to any man. But 66 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: the truth was we didn't actually have the money for 67 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: the cooking ingredients, so my mom. But even so it 68 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: worked out kind of badly and kind of good. I 69 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: didn't learn to cook at school. Cooking at school was 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: pretty awful. And um, I only learned to cook when 71 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: I was much older, when I was sort of a 72 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: look around eighteen or nineteen, And even now I'm not 73 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: a very good cook, but I really like nice food. Yeah, 74 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: and what I cook, I cook well. So, yeah, that's 75 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: so interesting that she she did not want you to 76 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: be stuck in the kitchen as a slave or anyone 77 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: to cook for her for a man. That's normal, yeah, 78 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 1: but in a way for that time, back in the seventies, 79 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: it was pretty radical as well. It's kind of like 80 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: a strange psychotomy because there's my father being a good cook, 81 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: and there's my mom being a bad cook, telling me 82 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: not to be a slave to any man. She was. 83 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: She ambitious for you and everywhere apart from keeping you 84 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: from cookie did she have very strong ambitions for you. 85 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: She put me on the pill when I was fourteen 86 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: to make sure I didn't get pregnant. That's pretty ambitious. 87 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: She's considered the idea of me having children to be 88 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: a complete failure and not a positive thing. So she 89 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: did everything to stop me from being a single mother 90 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: and a young single mother. But that's right or wrong, 91 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It seemed to have worked in my 92 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: favorite Yeah and yeah, she's when I think about it, 93 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: she was really not. My mom was very cozy herson, 94 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: but she wasn't home based. Really wasn't her strong point. 95 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: Do you think she wanted to do something else for herself? Absolutely? 96 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: My mom was brilliant dancer, and when she was sort 97 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: of around fifteen, she had in an interview audition in 98 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: a theater to for dancing, and her dad wouldn't let 99 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: her go when you left her? And how old were 100 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: you when you actually left your father's cooking? The deliciousness 101 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: of growing vegetables, and how how old were you. Actually, 102 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: my dad never lived at home. My dad only spent 103 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: My dad left us when we were about seven, and 104 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: my mom left us when we were twelve for quite 105 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: long periods of time. So me and my twin brother 106 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: when we grew up, it was very different from other 107 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: people's backgrounds, and it was very impoverished. Were incredibly poor. 108 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: Were It's strange we had were very wealthy when we 109 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: had that growing up in we were seven and then 110 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: my dad lost everything and my dad was married, so 111 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: my dad spent three days with his wife, three days 112 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: with my mom. We would say, one day somewhere else. 113 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: So um, and so when my dad was around, the 114 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: cooking or anything my dad did was like a big tree. 115 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: My dad came here in on a ten pound ticket 116 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: from Cyprus, and then my mom's a gypsy, so it's 117 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: really quite exotic actually, you know. I was brought up 118 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: on pomgranites and watermelon and with with my dad and well, 119 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: my dad was at home, and then when I was older, Um, 120 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: I started traveling to Turkey with him as soon as 121 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: we could go back to Cyprus. When I was I 122 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: think I was twenty when the war finished, my dad 123 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: took me to Cyprus and baby, we're going home. And 124 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: that was the first trip to turken Sight for since 125 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: I was a baby, and and it was like amazing 126 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: m to be with my dad, to be living with 127 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: my dad. They're cooking everything, and and my mom was 128 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: kind of a bit piste off because all that she'd 129 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: done for me. And then suddenly I'm like, but I'm 130 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, on my my father's when you started out 131 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: by saying you're Mediterranean, and so to actually probably go 132 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: and see the Mediterraneans and have the food. But when 133 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: we when we were up until we were about six, 134 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: we would go to Turkey regularly once a year, and 135 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: we spent when we were really tiny, we spent two 136 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: periods of six months there. Once when I was about 137 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: three or four, and then another time when I was six, 138 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: we spent six months there and and all that time 139 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: it would have been Mediterranean food and Mediterranean cooking. And 140 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: we used to drive to Turkey, and this is really cool. 141 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: We used to have in the back of the our car. 142 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: We had a Zodiac. We had these little tiny wooden chairs, 143 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, with the rapportive seats, and my dad just 144 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: with a brand new Zodio and my dad just stuck 145 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: a hole through the roof through the you know the bits, 146 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: and then got bongee plastic things around the chairs and 147 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: then just sat us in the back of the car 148 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: bouncing up and we're twins bouncing up and down on 149 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: these chairs with those little knotty dogs, and we drive 150 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: to Turkey, and we'd stop on the way all the time, 151 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: and my dad would get the calor gas stove out 152 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: and fry eggs and cook and everything, and we'd go 153 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: go to fields and take watermelons and things. So it 154 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: was really exciting and like adventurous these drives. And I'm 155 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: being I'm romanticizing about it now because it is romantic, 156 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: and it was different and it was different from everybody 157 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: else's upbringing that I knew. And so we went from 158 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: that to this, like to squatting in a cottage and 159 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: my mom working in a hotel as a waitress and 160 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: aimper made and so it was like from high to 161 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: like really fast, a reversal of fortune when you were 162 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: having to cook for yourself. Did you what did you read? 163 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: What did you do? There was so my mom was 164 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: out a lot most of the time, working leading, and 165 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: at weekends as well, she'd be out to three in 166 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: the morning, so we were on our own and often 167 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: my mom would leave our sandwiches and whatever. But my 168 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: big thing was just like orange, just orange squash and 169 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: just tons of orange squash and sitting up at night 170 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: crosier in bed and we and also for example, like Christmas, 171 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: Like you said about this, a lot of this podcast 172 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: is about people sitting around the table and remembering it. Oh, 173 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: there was no sitting around the table for me. It 174 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: was sitting and watching the Telly with a tray with 175 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: egg and chips. You know, when my mom came home 176 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: and Christmas was not Christmas. We didn't have Christmas because 177 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: my mom was always working. Our Christmas was like a 178 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: week after and kind of cobbled together, but it was 179 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: never going to feel the same as the real Christmas. 180 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: And one I remember we had Salvation Army one year, 181 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: you know, coming around with food and presents because we 182 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: didn't have anything. My mom, if she didn't work, we 183 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: had nothing. And that is a very different upbringing to 184 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people I know, And it's not a 185 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: thing to feel sorry for. I'm just staying the difference. 186 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: And also it's pretty shocking to go from this wealthy 187 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: thing of being quite spoiled as well in lots of 188 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: ways up until I was seven and then nothing. Do 189 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: you remember being hungry? Yeah, and I think my mom 190 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: remembers asked, my mom's dead now? But you know, my 191 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: mom this, this is one of the most shameful things 192 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: that I have to say, But in a way, I'm 193 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: sort of proud of her. When that the hotel was 194 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: derelict behind, my mom went climbing on the roof and 195 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: took lead off the roofs to sell it so as 196 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: we had something to eat. And that is on another level, 197 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: complete different level. And so much of this is down 198 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: to education and so much and it's like the cooking 199 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: thing and education and food. There is really better ways 200 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: to do this. But when you actually have nothing, and 201 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: you're here about these people women shoplifting to get their 202 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: babies food, and it seems unimaginable, but it's not when 203 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: you've been that poor, that's not. And it's happening now 204 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: because we know that it's happening today, and we know that. 205 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: You know, when children couldn't get to school because of 206 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: the lockdown, they were missing the only meal they had 207 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: for the whole day. You know, very many children only 208 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: have lunch and that's it. I'm a big supporter of 209 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: the Salvation Army or mentioned earlier, and the Salvation Army 210 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: will feed sixty thou people a day a day and 211 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: it's more now and and all of these support of 212 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: food banking, margate or whatever. It is a really really 213 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: bad level. So um, yeah, And when you left, when 214 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: you left? When did did you? Did you London at thirteen? 215 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: Left school at thirteen, and I had to go back 216 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: to school by law for lost four months from Christmas 217 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: till May. Otherwise my mom social services would have been 218 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: involved or whatever. And my mom my mom didn't mind 219 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: if we didn't go to school. And I was brought 220 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: up with absolutely no rules and I guess this might 221 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: be slightly the gypsy side and things no rules whatsoever. 222 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: We made our own rules up. If I didn't want 223 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: to go to school, I didn't go to school. I 224 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: don't want to brush my teeth, I didn't want to brush. 225 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have sex, have sex as long as I 226 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: was not going to get pregnant. All of these from 227 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: the age of about thirteen fourteen, and and not going 228 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: to school was because school was so depressing. It was like, oh, 229 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: my god, I'll get there and they chat at me, 230 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: or this would happen. All that would happen. I wasn't 231 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: doing what I wanted to do, So the last few 232 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: months when I went back, I just did art for 233 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: four months more or less three days a week, and 234 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: then left when I was fifteen, and then came to 235 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: London the day I could leave school, that the first 236 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: of May, I think it was. I just came straight 237 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: to London with a bag to David Bowie albums and 238 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: some clothes and stare. I stayed in all different places. 239 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: I stayed in a school in Warren Street which was 240 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: pretty educational, with quite a lot of well known they're 241 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: quite well known people now, very successful people lived there, 242 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: and I stayed with different friends different floors. Stayed in 243 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: a cupboard in Clapham for quite some time. And and 244 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: it's a real mystery how I never really got into 245 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: trouble or but I was kind of sassy and sort 246 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: of streetwise, so that saved me quite a bit. So 247 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: I learned a lot and I grew up. But I 248 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: was always a lot more mature from my age. I 249 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: don't know why. I just grew up very quickly. I 250 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: had too and but I don't really have such big 251 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: regrets over that because it wasn't it wasn't my fault, 252 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: it wasn't my doing. Do you have memories of food 253 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: in that poverty at that time in London when you 254 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: first came, it's okay. So this is my only Scott 255 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: memory of food at Warren Street. I was only fifteen 256 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: or sixteen and I turned up and they were in 257 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: the basement cooking there. A lot of them went to 258 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: St Martin's in the Royal College of Art whatever, so 259 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: it was a good influence in lots of ways. And 260 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: I was so hungry and they said, you're hungry tracers. 261 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: So I probably haven't eaten for about two days, wasn't it. 262 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: And then they told me they were cooking dog and 263 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: I believe them, so I wouldn't eat it. And that 264 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: was one of my And when I bring this up 265 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: but in a step, when I see any of them, 266 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: they always yeah, it's not a good story. But that's 267 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: my only real big story about food. I think parvary 268 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: parvarty and food youth and food loneliness and food being 269 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: the first into world. But you don't know where you're sleeping, 270 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: what you're eating, you know, the lack of being taken 271 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: care of is would make it. It's true because now 272 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: I have this thing that i'll i'll work on, my 273 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: war covered, and I have one in France and my 274 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: house there and one in London, and my war cover 275 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: is just full of like literally, if there was like 276 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: a war, I've got enough food to keep me going 277 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: in tins and tins of saldines and all kinds of 278 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: stuff and everything. And it just gives me a sense 279 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: of security. And I really love going shopping for really 280 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: nice food and putting it in the fridge and looking 281 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: at it, and it makes me feel so safe and 282 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: cozy and secure. And it's taken me a long time 283 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: to realize that I had to hang up about it. 284 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: I think probably only in the last few years that 285 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: I realized how much it meant to me to that 286 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: food makes you feel secure and come portable. And for 287 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: a long time I didn't eat. I used to be 288 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: so thin and everything and whatnot. I didn't care about it. 289 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: I didn't care about food at all. For years and 290 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: years and years. I was very um, sort of not 291 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: anti food, but it just wasn't on my list of 292 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: things as a priority for living. But now now it 293 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: really is because because I understand about my strange relationship 294 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: with it and food and art and food and creating, 295 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: and you know, the the solitariness. I was thinking of 296 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: an artist, you know, in the studio working and then 297 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: um going out at night and partying and having food, drinking, 298 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: being together with other artists. When you were in art school, 299 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: was that something that you sort of where you exposed 300 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: to the idea that you all were painting and working together. 301 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: There was that hole? What was it like being now? 302 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: When I when I was at art school, I worked. 303 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: I used to get in wors getting late in the morning, 304 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: getting about quarter to eleven, which I was. I went 305 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: to Maidstone College of Art and the Royal College of Art. 306 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: Did painting at the Royal College of Art. When I 307 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: was at the Royal College of Art, I get in 308 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: about quarter to eleven in the morning, and I'd stayed 309 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: at ten o'clock every night, and I'd work at the 310 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: weekends as well. I had no social life when I 311 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: was at the Royal College of Art, none at all. 312 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: Just worked every single day. So and but the thing 313 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: about artists and restaurants is brilliant because then after I 314 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: left art school years later when when I m I 315 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: think one of the first things I did as soon 316 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: as I started having got money was oysters, and I 317 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: just I love oysters, and I all of my excess 318 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: income was spent on oysters. Absolutely. However, anywhere everywhere I'd go, 319 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: well like, I actually liked I actually really like rock oysters. 320 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: So that was quite easy in Witstable in those days, 321 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: and you get you get free oysters for seventy five 322 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: or something. It was amazing. And um, I used to 323 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: just try all different restaurants or different oysters, work out 324 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: what I like, what I don't like. And I think 325 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: my my biggest moment was I was on about a 326 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: hundred a week oysters, hundred oysters, and I used to 327 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: cycle everywhere, and I was so fit and I was 328 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: just lean on, sort of like a ballerine. I just 329 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: sind youw muscle and just like oyster diet, I was 330 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: just like on fire. It was fantastic. Do you have 331 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: a house in the south of France? What is what 332 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: is eating like there? Did you choose it? Also because 333 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: it was on the Mediterranean, I chose it by default, 334 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: but yes, it is on the Mediterranean, and I'm on 335 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: the top of a hill. On top of a hill, 336 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: looking at I have a sort of two hundred and 337 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: maybe two hundred and sixty degree of the sea. It's 338 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: just behind me that I can't see the sea, and 339 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: it is really beautiful. And it's in the middle of 340 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: a nate you reserve. I don't have any neighbors, and 341 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: it's a sort of twenty five minute drive to the 342 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: little town to buy food and everything. So what I 343 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: tend to do is do one shop in a week 344 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: and that's it. And then I have my war cupboard. 345 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: And my favorite cooking is when I get down and 346 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: I've got a vegetable garden as well, really Britute vegetable garden, 347 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: and I get down to the real nitty gritty and 348 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: I have to be really inventive with what I cook. 349 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I really love it and it's exciting and it's funny 350 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: with what I come up with and everything. And and 351 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: I just cook for myself there as well, because there's 352 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: no there's no restaurants whenywhere to eat near me, and 353 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: I love to produce there do you go and you 354 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: go around vegetables. I don't know if you if you 355 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: do want to talk about this, but we've had quite 356 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: a to multuous time, but probably nobody, certainly in this room, 357 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: certainly that mean more than you with your illness. And 358 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: I think your illness must have affected the way you 359 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: eat because it was to do with your digestive system, 360 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: isn't it? And so did you did you have to 361 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: start eating when you were ill? Or because actually it's 362 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: not my digestive system, it's my bladder, okay, so different bag. 363 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: And and yes, it has affected the way that I 364 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: eat because I can't have I still can't couldn't have 365 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: I can't have a full bow. I can't be because 366 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: it affects the stormer and everything. And my diets completely 367 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: changed since I was ill, which is quite quite strange. 368 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: It's like totally, I mean totally changed. To tell me, 369 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: what do you I am vast amounts of fish, vast 370 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: amounts of apples, vast amounts of fruit all day long. 371 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: I am a lot of which is not supposed to 372 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: be good for me. By eat a lot of cold food, 373 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: and I don't know why, much more than hot food. 374 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: I am a lot more lemon all the time because 375 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: they alkaline. I am my diet and it's not conscious 376 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: thing either. It's really sub I haven't even tried. I'm 377 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: not even thinking about it. It's just what's happened. It's strange. 378 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: So you haven't been directed by doctors of what you can. 379 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: I eat quite healthily. So they when you're when you're 380 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: coming out of hospitals that you see nutritions and they 381 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: tell you this, and they tell you that. But I'm 382 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: kind of quite forward thinking on good food. So when 383 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: I eat something bad, it's because I really want to. 384 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: And when you there are so many reasons we eat. 385 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: There isn't There are reasons we eat because we're hungry, 386 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: or eat because we're in a beautiful place and we 387 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: want to celebrate, or we eat because we are feeling 388 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: a certain way. We need comfort. If you needed food, 389 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: if you needed it for comfort, is there a food 390 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: that you might reach for and be totally apples? Apples, apples. 391 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: I eat probably about six D eight apples a day 392 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: a day, apples. I couldn't live without apples. What kind 393 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: I like? I've forgotten what they called it. Those pink 394 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: ones and they're kind of sweet, pink lady. Yes, I 395 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: absolutely loved them. I washed them, put them on the 396 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: bread board, and I get the knife and I don't 397 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: cut them equally. I just slice all bits off till 398 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: I gets the course. So it's all different shapes. And 399 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: maybe I take three of them, and I'm like a 400 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: big pile on a very beautiful blue Delf plate. And 401 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: then I sit anywhere and just slowly eat three apples 402 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: at a time that are all different bits, shapes and pieces, 403 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: and it makes me feel so good. That's what we 404 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: want you to feel, Drecy, we want you to feel good. 405 00:23:51,760 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. To visit the online shop of 406 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: the River Cafe, go to shop the River Cafe dot 407 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: co dot uk. River Cafe Table four is a production 408 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Adam I Studios. For more 409 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 410 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.