1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, we have an extra special guest, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Sadia Modsburg, director of Innovation and managing partner at the 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Foundation, a small, four billion dollar outfit dedicating itself 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: to the betterment of mankind. How's that for a broad subject? Anyway, 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: If you're at all interested in philanthropy or how foundations operate, 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: and what it's like to have to think about giving 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: away hundreds of millions of dollars a year, I expect 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: you will find this conversation to be quite fascinating. The 10 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Foundation takes a decidedly off center approach. As the 11 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: expression goes, they are not looking to give a man 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: of fish as much as they are looking to find 13 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: the economic choke point that is leading to whatever distress 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: any given region is suffering and find ways to fix 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: that on a permanent basis. Two so called teach the 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: person to fish. Uh. They've spent a lot of time 17 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: thinking about things like resilience and how cities and regions 18 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: can develop resiliency. Two ongoing threats, be they economic, terrorist, 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: or even just threats um caused by the weather like 20 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: Super so Sandy or Katrina all told, I found this 21 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: to be quite a fascinating conversation, and if you are 22 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: at all interested in all things philanthropy, I think you'll 23 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: similarly find it interesting. With no further ado, here is 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: my conversation with Saudia Madsburg. This is Masters in Business 25 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: with very Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio Mice. Special guest today 26 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: is Sadia Mottsburg. She is the managing director at the 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: Rockefeller Foundation, which has about four billion dollars in assets. 28 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: She joined the foundation in and leads the foundation work 29 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: on innovation. Previously, she was senior vice president for strategic 30 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: Planning at the New York City Economic Development Corp. She 31 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: spent six years at Mackenzie and four years at Cisco. 32 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: Has a Masters in Science in Applied Economics from Copenhagen 33 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: Business School, as well as an undergraduate degree in international business. 34 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: Saudia Madsburg, Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you, briam delighted to 35 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: be here. Uh and it's a pleasure to have you. 36 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: So let's spend a little bit of time on your 37 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: background before we delve into the details of what the 38 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: foundation does. How do you go from being a consultant 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: at mackenzie and working on telecom technology at Cisco, to 40 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: too of working in a foundation. How does that trend 41 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: position take place? So if you had asked me, you know, 42 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: twenty odd years ago, whether I think I would be 43 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: sitting in the position I'm in now, the answer would 44 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: probably be no, because it hasn't been an intentional career 45 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: choice that I made from the very beginning. UM, I've 46 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: always followed my intuition and my feeling in terms of 47 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: what I need to be doing and where I need 48 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: to be doing that. So that is what took me 49 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: from consulting to the world of tech, to public um 50 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: sector in terms of New York City and now here 51 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: at philanthropy. But as I do reflect back at all 52 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: of this, I do think that the experiences I've gathered 53 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: along the way put me in a better position to 54 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: be doing the job I'm doing today. So so obviously 55 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: with an entity like McKenzie, which is known as a 56 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: consultant to all different manners of organizations and businesses, UM, 57 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: there's clearly and overlap. But technology telecom, how does that 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: translate into heading up the innovation project Rockefeller? So technology, 59 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: I would say I mean always but a lot recently 60 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: as well, is playing a critical role in terms of 61 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: how society is developing, how the basic fundamentals of you know, 62 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: the job market are being shaped, what has happened, where 63 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: growth is coming from, how we interact with each other, 64 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: how we work with each other. Uh, the work that 65 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: I did at Cisco was very much about that. It 66 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: was about understanding what is the fundamental role that technology 67 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: plays in our lives at work and outside of work, 68 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: and how can we use technology to address some of 69 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: the fundamental challenges and opportunities. Because it's not all about 70 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: challenges as we go along, So let's talk about some 71 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: of those challenges and some of those opportunities. I want 72 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: to reference something you had blocked about for the Foundation, 73 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: the Innovative Finance Revolution. What is that and what does 74 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: the Foundation do with that? So before I get to 75 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: describing the revolution, maybe I can dis where have the 76 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: challenge that that revolution attempts to address. So twenty fifteen 77 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: I think was a landmark year and in many different ways, 78 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: but there are two particular things that we saw happened 79 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: that year. One was that the world came together to 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: um agree on what we call the Sustainable Development goals, 81 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: which are seventeen very lofty goals about how we want 82 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the world, what we want the world to look like. 83 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: At the same time, we also had the Paris Climate 84 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: Agreement that you know, most countries around the world came 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: together and agreed on and has been ratified by you know, 86 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: a significant number of them. I think there's one large 87 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: country that hasn't gotten around to signing offer right, and 88 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: we can we can get to what that actually means 89 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: in practical attempts. But both of those agreements kind of 90 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: brought to the forefront the big question of how are 91 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: we going to pay for all of this? How are 92 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: we going to pay for these sustainable development goals? And 93 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: this isn't just about developing countries, it's about us, Europe, 94 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, the entire world. And how are we going 95 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: to pay for are all the climate related efforts that 96 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: we want to do, And that is where innovative finance 97 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: comes in. And just to put a few numbers on 98 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: the table as well, it's estimated that for the sustainable 99 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: development goals, they're going to cost around fifty to seventy 100 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: trillion over the next decade. Trillion trillion with a capital 101 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: T that's a lot of zeros, and there are also 102 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: some you know, and and these are high level estimates, 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: so when you dig down, I'm sure you can refine 104 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: it along the way, but they're also estimate stent that 105 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: there's a massive funding gap in terms of how we're 106 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: going to get there, and that takes into account the 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: money philanthropy has, the money the private sector has. So 108 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: if we're talking about and there's just another number for 109 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: to put it in context, a gap of roughly two 110 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: point five trillion per year in developing countries alone. So 111 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: that doesn't even include where we are sitting right now. 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: So we have to think innovatively. We have to think 113 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: about alternative solutions, and we at the Rockefeller Foundation think 114 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: that innovative finance is a big part of the answer. 115 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: So how does that manifest itself? What does innovative finance 116 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: do to help funds projects like smart power for rural development. 117 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: So innovative finance represents a pretty expansive set of financing 118 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: mechanisms that, in one way another are designed to either 119 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: attract more money to development goals and and different programs 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: and initiatives, or to take the money that's already in 121 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: place and the new money that's coming in and make 122 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: sure that it's more effectively deployed. Because I talked about 123 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: the massive funding gap. That gap is there and we 124 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: need to focus on it. At the same time, we 125 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: also need to make sure that the way money is 126 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: delivered is done in a more predictable way, in a 127 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: more sustainable way, because if people you know, are working 128 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: in this space, you have to know what's going to 129 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: happen next year in terms of whether you're going to 130 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: have the money or not. So you're really referring to 131 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: of philanthropic efficiency, making sure that the money that is 132 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: allocated is used appropriately and effectively for whatever the I 133 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: will say, not just philanthropic funding, also what comes from 134 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: the private sector, also what comes from the public sector. 135 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: So pretty pretty broad and and you know, just to 136 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: put context to what kind of financing mechanisms we're talking about, 137 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: it's everything from insurance links, securities, to pay for performance 138 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: debt structures to even micro texas. I'm Barry Ridholts. You're 139 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special 140 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: guest today is Sadia Modsburg. She is the director of 141 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: Innovation at the Rockefeller Foundation, and and let's talk a 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: little bit about the foundation's mission. I'm gonna quote right 143 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: off of the website to improve the well being of 144 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: humanity around the world. That's a little broad. What what 145 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: does it really mean in actuality, improve in the well 146 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: being of humanity? It is indeed quite broad, and every 147 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: time I say it, I almost kind of need to stop, 148 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: take a breath, let it sink in, and then, you know, 149 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: talk about what that actually means. So, the Rockefellow Foundation 150 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: has been around for roughly a hundred and four years. 151 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: The year I joined, we were celebrating our centennials, So 152 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: the fact that we had been around for a hundred 153 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: years and were reflected back on what we had achieved 154 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: in those hundred years and what it had meant. We 155 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: have always stayed true to the mission, which is to 156 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: promote the well being of humanity. But what that means 157 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 1: at any given point in time, of course, has shifted 158 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: over the years, and it's shifted based on what we 159 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: think the big challenges of our times have been and 160 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: where we think that philanthropy has an important role to 161 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: play in terms of stepping in, trying out new solutions, 162 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: proving how they work, and then letting others step in 163 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: and drive those forward. I would say, though, the three 164 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: things that have remain the same over the hundred and 165 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: four years. One is our focus on innovation, so really 166 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: driving towards new thinking and new solutions. The second is 167 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: more you know and and it's something if you read 168 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: some of the letters written by John D. Rockefell in 169 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: the early days that it comes out is this idea 170 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: of scientific philanthropy, meaning what what's about trying to really 171 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: understand what the core underlying drivers behind the challenge are. 172 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: So instead of just throwing money at something and so 173 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: here's money, you know, let's go alleviate the pain and 174 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: suffering here, it's about really understanding what the fundamental issue is. 175 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: So when they say when you say scientific philanthropy, you 176 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: mean sort of a scientific methodology using an evidence based approach. Yes, 177 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: to say, hey, these dollars are actually having resonance and 178 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: having an effect, these not so much less focus on 179 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: what's working. Both that, but also to use the data 180 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: and to use the research to understand what the problem 181 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: really is, where the problem really comes from. So when 182 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out what the answer to that 183 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: problem is, you're actually addressing the root causes of it. 184 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: As opposed to just you know what comes to this effect. 185 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: So it sounds like it's somewhat process oriented. Don't just 186 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: identify a problem, find that fulk rum point that's the 187 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: key to the problem. Right. That sounds quite fascinating. I 188 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: assume you're a five percent foundation, meaning each year you 189 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: give away five of of the four billion or so 190 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: UM and your your portfolio offsets those that that donation. 191 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: How do you prioritize where to focus your efforts again, 192 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: improving humanity, improving the well being humanity a giant charge 193 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: trying mission. How do you drill down and say, we 194 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: want to focus on these areas and within these areas, 195 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: this is the specific um issue we want to attack. So, 196 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, we try to you know, really understand 197 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: what we think the big challenges of our times aren't 198 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: based in at set our strategy at any given point 199 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: in time. That's the responsibility that the senior leadership team carries, 200 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: as the responsibilities that our trustees carry as well. If 201 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: we look at where we are at this point in 202 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: time and where we have focused, we have two overarching 203 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: goals as we call them. One is around resilience building, 204 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: the other one is advancing inclusive economies and within that therefore, 205 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: what we call issue areas um that we focus on. 206 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: There's advanced health, revalue ecosystems, transform cities, and secure livelihoods. Now, now, 207 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: having just said what these issue areas still brought issues, 208 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,599 Speaker 1: So that brings us back to how do you operationalize 209 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: it on a day to day basis? How do you 210 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: actually try to understand what's happening in those spaces. We 211 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: have a strategic insights team that continuously monitors what's happening 212 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: in those spaces and shapes different suggestions for areas where 213 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: we could engage, and then we take those are years 214 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: and have a conversation around you know, how pressing is 215 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: the problem. And I'll be honest, in most cases when 216 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: you look at it, nobody can come and argue the 217 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: problem isn't pressing. They're they're terrible things happening around the world, 218 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, in our backyard and across the ocean as well. 219 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: So it's about that, But then it's also about what 220 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: we like to call looking at dynamism and potential for innovation. 221 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: So with dynamism, what I mean is is there something 222 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: happening at this point in time that makes it the 223 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: right time for us as a foundation to go in 224 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: and engage. Is it on the policy side, is their 225 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: developments in the private sector that what we should be 226 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 1: looking at and focused on. Is it something in civic society, 227 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: some thing that gives an indication there's a momentum that 228 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: we can build on and accelerate. And then of course 229 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: there's the impact at scale. We're here, I mean, philanthropy 230 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: is here to serve poor and vulnerable people around the world. 231 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: That is our role, that is what we're focused on. 232 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: So at the end of it, it comes down to 233 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: our ability to have impact. So we're gonna talk more 234 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: about resilience in a few minutes. Let's talk a little 235 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: bit about um, the day to day and the prioritization. 236 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: Do you look for low hanging fruit as the expression 237 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: uh suggest, where where there's an immediate impact or are 238 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: there occasional moonshots that hey, we don't know if this 239 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: is going to be successful, but if it works, the 240 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: impact is tremendous. So it's a both, it's it's that's 241 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: what I was going to say. It's a fine balance, 242 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: and it's both. And again, when our mission is so broad, 243 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: our areas are so broad, if we're really doing our 244 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: job well, we can't be going to the obvious solutions 245 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: and funding the obvious things. But sometimes you need to 246 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: do that too. Um. I mean, we think of our 247 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: money as America's risk capital, where we can deploy it 248 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: in ways where the private sector wouldn't be will too, 249 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: because they maybe don't want to take on the risk. 250 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: The public sector again may not be able to because 251 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: either they don't have the resources available or they don't 252 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: have the ability to take that risk. So we have 253 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: a big responsibility in terms of what we do with 254 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: that really precious privileged capital in terms of driving towards 255 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: new solutions. I mean, and you talk about moonshots that 256 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: you can look at it in many different ways. We 257 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: talked about in a bit of finance earlier and one 258 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: of the portfolios that that I oversee the Foundation is 259 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: called zero Gap, and it is focused on the financing 260 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: mechanisms and closing the funding gap within that. Right now, 261 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: we're funding something called outbreaking epidemic insurance. Now, ten years ago, 262 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: if you weren't to anybody in the insurance industry and said, 263 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, public health, you know there's a massive lack 264 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: of funding. They are all these public health emergencies that 265 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: come up time and time again, we don't have a 266 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: good system in place to fund out how about insurance. 267 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: Many of them would probably you know, have roll their 268 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: eyes and say, yes, that's great. We run this business, 269 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, based on these things, and you know, good 270 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: luck fiddling with that. Over in the philanthropic sector. I'm 271 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. 272 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: My special guest today is Sadia Madsburg. She is the 273 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: managing director of the Rockefeller Foundation, focusing on the Foundation's 274 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: work on innovation. So let's talk a little bit about 275 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: resilience as a public policy here in here in New 276 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: York City and the surrounding region. Uh, the Superstorm Sandy 277 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: was a giant mess that caused all sorts of problems 278 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: in some ways outside of Katrina. It was the most 279 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: expensive um storm, certainly on the East Coast. What can 280 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: we as a city and a region do to become 281 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: more resilient. So I was working for New York City 282 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: at the time super Storm Sandy hit, and you're right, 283 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: it was a massive disaster. It was a mess. It 284 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: costs the local economies of the states that were hit 285 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: by it a lot. The small and medium sized businesses 286 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: were shut down for a while. The public infrastructure broke down, 287 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about subways or telecommunications infrastructure, um, electrical electrical. 288 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: I live in the suburbs. We had no electricity for 289 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: twelve days. If you would have asked me beforehand, yeah, hey, 290 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: what are the odds that a storm is going to 291 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: knock out electricity for two weeks? I would say, this 292 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: is America. That shouldn't happen. Yeah, exactly. I mean I 293 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: was living downtown Manhattan and you know I had to 294 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: relocate to Midtown. That was the extent of you know, 295 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: the suffering I I went through. But but no, it 296 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: was a big shock to the system. And that really 297 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: does bring forward this whole concept of resilience and what 298 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: should we do, not just at a city level and 299 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: a state level, but for countries and regions as well. 300 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: At the Rockefeller Foundation, we talked about resil alliance as 301 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: the capacity of individuals, communities, societies to withstand shocks when 302 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: they happen and then bounce back from them faster as well. 303 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: So it's not about trying to stop the disasters from 304 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: happening and saying how do you put in place the systems, 305 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: the solutions, the policies that will allow you to bounce 306 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: back faster? Now have we done that? Because I know 307 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: in the world of finance, we are notorious for experiencing 308 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: something terrible and then forgetting about it as soon as possible. 309 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: Have we forgotten about Superstorm Sandy or Katrina? Or have 310 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: we taken steps to become more resilient as a as 311 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: a geography. So I think in in the public realm um, 312 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: there's this very broad understanding that you cannot just forget 313 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: and pretend that it didn't happen. It's happening time and 314 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: time again in different parts of this country and different 315 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: parts of the world. So there is a very strong 316 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: momentum and focus on saying, you know, let's let's get 317 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: to this oceans. Part of it is also breaking away 318 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: from the silos that we operate in. Don't think about 319 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: you know this is this has to do about education, 320 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: This has to do with infrastructure, this has to do 321 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: with you know something else. You have to sometimes cut 322 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: across the silos and say what are the right solutions 323 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: you put in place? And I mean, I'd like to 324 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: give an example again from our innovative finance portfolio of 325 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: something we're funding currently which people would not normally associate 326 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: with resilience effort, and it has to do with natural infrastructure. 327 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: So by natural infrastructure, I mean oyster reefs, I mean 328 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: coral reefs and you know marsh lands and coastal wetlands. 329 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: They protect a natural barrier when it comes to storms. 330 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: You know, they have done it time and time again. 331 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: Their science out there that shows that, you know, a 332 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: healthy coral leaf can absorb around of the energy of 333 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: a wave that is massive. So you don't even have 334 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: to go think, you know, let's build a massive sea 335 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: wall or any you know, thing equivalent to that. How 336 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: do you put in place mechanisms that can allow you 337 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: to protect the natural environment we have today that is 338 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: protecting us. So so what we're funding and we're working 339 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: currently with the Nature Conservancy and they're partnering with Swiss 340 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: re on it is to say, um, there's the meso 341 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: American reef. It's the second largest reef in the world. 342 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: It protects a lot of the local economy. When it 343 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: comes to the Mexican Mexican tourism system, can you gather 344 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: the hotel association and the local businesses that benefit from 345 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: having a healthy reef get them to pay into a 346 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 1: fund that invests in the maintenance of the reef but 347 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: also bios catastrophe insurance on it, so when something terrible happens, 348 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: one insurance pays out immediately, so you have the money 349 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: in hand, build right away because you have to. And 350 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: I didn't understand you know, the complexity of it, but 351 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: a lot of it is picking it up at the 352 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: right time, reattaching it so it can continue to go. 353 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: It's you know, you can't come back in a month, 354 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: two month, three months into it because then you're vulnerable 355 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: to the you know, there are some little things I 356 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: was I think a lot of people were shocked about 357 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: with Sandy, and we haven't even gotten to Katrina shocked 358 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: to learn that emergency generators are located in the basements 359 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: of buildings, which assumes there's no flooding right stop and 360 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: thinking about this was done twenty thirty years ago. People 361 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: weren't really conceptualizing a wave coming over Manhattan, going down 362 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: into the subway, going down into the basements of buildings, 363 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: and basically rendering those emergency generators um unusable. But what 364 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: you're talking about with reef building and oyster bed promotion. 365 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: These are giant macro projects that are far beyond anyone business, 366 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: probably anyone UM city or or municipality. It has to 367 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: be part of a broader effort. I'm Barry Ridhults. You're 368 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: listening to Masters and Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special 369 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: guest today is Sadia Madsburg. She is the Director of 370 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: Innovation at the Rockefeller Foundation, whose mission is to improve 371 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: the well being of humanity around the world. So let's 372 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: get into the nitty gritty of that. Uh, I'm ballparked. 373 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: The foundations about four billion dollars? Is that slightly more 374 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: than that? Slightly more than that? Um? How does the 375 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: Foundation manage its money? Do they use in house managers? 376 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: They use out outside managers? They use both. So we 377 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: have our investment office that is led by our Chief 378 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: Investment Officer, Donna Dean. She's a brilliant, very very smart 379 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: woman who's been taking care of the money for us 380 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: so that the rest of us on the program side 381 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: have money to spend on unfulfilling our mission. Uh. It 382 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: is managed externally. We have our team internally that sets 383 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: you know, goals and along with the with our board 384 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: and and us on which direction we want to be 385 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: going in, and then they look for the right opportunities externally. 386 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: So you target five percent a year to give out. 387 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: That's everybody that's a tax exempt foundation uses uses that money. 388 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: How our priorities set? Is it long term thinking and 389 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: it's mapped out over years, or do you have the 390 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: ability we reference the bowler earlier, do you have the 391 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: ability to pivot when an emergency such as that pops up. 392 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: So we try to do boats because we have to 393 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: be invested in areas for the long term. You can't 394 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: come up with solutions, you know, in the short term 395 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: and say, you know, we saw for it, let's go 396 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: on the next, onto the next one. So we have 397 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: some of it dedicated towards our longer term initiatives and programs. 398 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: One example of that is what we call yield wise. 399 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: It's focused on reducing post harfice lass in agricultural food 400 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: chain in Africa. It's something we yield loss yield wise. 401 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, so it's focused on reducing post harvest loss. 402 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: So from the time a small hold of farmer harvests 403 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: it till the time it gets to a market where 404 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: you can still sell it. There's a big loss that 405 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: happens in there, meaning just natural attrition rot or what 406 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: what is it that it's a combination of that. So um. 407 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: One of the crops that we're looking at is called cassava. 408 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: It's something that you have to get to the market 409 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: quickly and process very quick to melon and it's um 410 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: a decent size and so I you know, for me, 411 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: it's more about how do you want link it to 412 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: the local markets in a more efficient way quickly And 413 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: sometimes technology plays a role, or processing close to where 414 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: you're harvesting plays a role. Uh. Sometimes it's about having 415 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 1: in place agreements when it comes to bulk purchase with 416 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: big you know, food chains, where you know there's somebody 417 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: there to take it off your hands and know what 418 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: to do with it. Um. So it's a number of 419 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: different things that come into play in terms of how 420 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: you can work towards reducing food loss. So when I 421 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: when I'm I'm listening to the maintaining the yield and 422 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: dealing with the loss, that sounds like you're trying to 423 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: attack two things. One is poverty in the Third World 424 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: by by allowing farmers to generate a better economic return. 425 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: But that also applies towards food scarcity and starvation. If 426 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: you're getting a better yield, then you have less loss. 427 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: That just means is that much more food around, right? 428 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: I mean it has to do with food security definitely. 429 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: UM And actually, I mean what I didn't mention was 430 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: the efforts that we're doing here in the US UM 431 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: within that initiative aren't focused on reducing harvest loss, but 432 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: it's about consumer waste. There's a lot of food that 433 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: you know comes into grocery stores, comes into your fridge, 434 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: my fridge that never gets consumed that we end up 435 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: throwing out. So again, more to say, we look at 436 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: what the challenges were and then figure out what we 437 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: think the appropriate response would be. So let's let's talk 438 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: about that, because I know I'm the person who takes 439 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: the garbage out in the house and my wife is 440 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: always wait a second and going through the fridge and 441 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: tossing out whatever is turns or the tomatoes. So what 442 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: can you do in the United States to reduce And 443 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: it's the if memory serves it's massive. It's like fift 444 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: of the farmed food is wasted. Is that is that 445 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: a fair number? So I don't know the exact percentage, 446 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: but it is a really, really significant amount. Yes, uh 447 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: so we're in the process of deciding where to go 448 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: with it. Part of it has to do with creating 449 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: alternative markets. Right, what is waste to you may not 450 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: be waste to somebody else. Um. I don't know how 451 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: things were when you were growing up in your house 452 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: and what kind of food culture there was around it. 453 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: But in the old days, you used to take a 454 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: lot of the things that you would consider close to 455 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: expiration and you would make stock out of it, right, 456 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: And you would make stock and cook it right, and 457 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: you could put it in the freezer. It tastes delicious. 458 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: You can use it, you know, for time and time again. 459 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: But and then you can, you know, do other things. 460 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: You can donate it to local organizations that try to 461 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: bring food to people that don't currently have food. So 462 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: part of it is behavioral. Part of it has to 463 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: do with the market dynamics, and I think you have 464 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to work on both hand. And I recall reading not 465 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: too long ago about the market for quote unquote ugly fruit, yes, 466 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: which I find fascinating that, Hey, this tomato was ugly, 467 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: this apple isn't pretty, but it's perfectly edible. And there 468 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: are people who are more than happy to buy it 469 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: at a substantial discount. And that's an economic solution to one. 470 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: I mean not just that very if you go to 471 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: any of the farmers markets around here. I live close 472 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: to Union Square and I go so I go there often. 473 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: And the food isn't set up to look beautiful and 474 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: well shaped and the same proportions and the same sizes 475 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: and all that. That is just nature. That's you know, 476 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: that's part of the charm of the farmers market. This 477 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: isn't factory farmed. Every tomato is perfectly read, perfectly round. 478 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 1: Everything looks like it was recently grown without a lot 479 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: of chemicals that I think always thought that was half 480 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: the appeal. So we're talking about some of the things 481 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: that money can do. What are some of the things 482 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: that money can't do, or at least can't do by itself. Meaning, 483 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: how do you decide we can only go so far 484 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: with this project? And there needs to be a lot 485 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: more education and a lot more persuasion of people before 486 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: they recognize and funds a project. If that makes any sense. 487 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: It does, um, I think the most stark example of 488 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: what money can't fix or philanthropy can't fix today is 489 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: the Syrian crisis. Um If you look at it, it's 490 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: a crisis that started, as you know, small protests escalated 491 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: into a full blown um civil war. Now you're a conflict, 492 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: and now you're at a point where you know there 493 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: there is a cease fire. But I've read one of 494 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: the headlines in New York Times saying, you know, the 495 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: parties were quarreling about how to move forward. In the 496 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: span of those five years, you have a quarter of 497 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: a million people that have died. You have eleven million 498 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: people that have been displaced from their homes, some of 499 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: them within Syria, but a significant amount of them left 500 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: Syria as well, state went to neighboring countries. Jordan's I 501 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: was Jordan recently. And then it's amazing what capacity that 502 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: country has had to take in refugees time and time again, 503 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: and the treat them with decency and dignity. But Lebanon 504 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: as an example, Jordan as an example. There even your 505 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: refugee is going to Iraq. I mean, who would have thought, 506 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: but you know, somebody would want to go to Iraq 507 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: as a refugee to get away from what's bad. And 508 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: then I got you know, Turkey, and then I started 509 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: getting closer to my old home, which is Europe, and 510 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: it's been front and center of the policy debate in Europe, 511 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: in the US, in Australia, and you know, all other 512 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: parts well impacted. Brexit might have an impact on the 513 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: election here. I I think people underestimate how significant the 514 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: issue in Syria was as a global um affectation. It's 515 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: really driven all sorts of issues around the world. So 516 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: if I take that as an example, there's no amount 517 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: of money that I could have given us a grant 518 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: that would have fixed the core of that problem. Now 519 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: there are things that we can do, we should be doing, 520 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: and we are trying to do around How do you 521 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: then take the people that are, if affected by the conflict, 522 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: refugees and try to create more inclusive societies that they 523 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: can be a part of to actually, you know, allow 524 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: them to come back into what could be a normal 525 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: life away from what what they left behind. That's quite 526 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: that's quite astonishing. So when you pick a specific issue 527 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: to focus on, obviously one one question is can we 528 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: have an impact? And if the issue is perhaps not, 529 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: we there's not enough money in the world to resolve 530 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: this that that becomes a diplomacy and governmental challenge. But 531 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: when you find something that you believe your approach and 532 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,959 Speaker 1: your um cash can actually impact, how do you go 533 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: about measuring that impact? How can you determine how effective 534 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: a given program is, both both when you're evaluating against 535 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: other programs you're running or deciding, hey, we're really seeing 536 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: residents here, let's put a greater refer into this or not. 537 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: Do you manage just like an actual portfolio. So we 538 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: do have a very strong focus on what we call monitoring, 539 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: which is doing it as the program is implemented, and 540 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: then evaluation, which is the actual outcomes of the program 541 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: once it has been implemented. One because we want to 542 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: make sure that the impact we want to have on 543 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: the life of pinvulnerable people is actually achieved, but to 544 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: also so we can figure out whether the starting point 545 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: that we had for when we started the program was 546 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: the right one or whether we need to pivot along 547 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: the way. We have been speaking with Sadia Modsburg of 548 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: the Rockefeller Foundation. If you want more information on the foundation, 549 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: you could go to their website just google Rockefeller Foundation, 550 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: or go to Rockfeller is it Rockfellow Foundation dot org? 551 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: Is that right? Um. If you enjoy this conversation, be 552 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: sure and stick around for the podcast extras, where we 553 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: keep the tape rolling and talk about all things philanthropic. 554 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: Check out my daily column on Bloomberg View dot com 555 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: or follow me on Twitter at rit Halts. I'm Barry 556 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: rit Halts, Human listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. 557 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. I don't know why I do that. 558 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: I do that every time, Sadia, thank you much so 559 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: much for doing this. I find the topic of how 560 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: great pools of wealth is subsequently used in endowments and 561 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: foundations for whatever the founding principle um goal was, Even 562 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: when it's something as broad as making humanity, improving the 563 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: well being of humanity, something like that, it's fascinating because 564 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: you usually don't get to see the nuts and bolts 565 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: of how that's done. And what I find really interesting 566 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: about the Rockefell Foundation, I think people's general sense of 567 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: foundations are they're throwing money at problems, and and everything 568 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: you've described is much more to get Biblical teach a 569 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: person of fish rather than give them a fish. It's 570 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: identifying where the problem is and looking for a solution 571 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: where there's some subsequent ongoing economic incentive to keep the 572 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: solution going. And that's that's really quite fascinating to me. Um, 573 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: I imagine your day to day work must be really interesting. 574 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: It really is that it keeps me on my tiptoes. 575 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: So when I was at the point of deciding whether 576 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: or not to join you know what I would broadly 577 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: characterize as the social sector of the development sector, I 578 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: actually went around and talked to a lot of people 579 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: and I thought, I don't want to just jump the 580 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: fans because I think it's going to be better on 581 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: the other side. Let me get a realistic feel for 582 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: what's happening. And it was an interesting time where, you know, 583 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people said, no, no, no, if you 584 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: really want to make a difference, you know, find one 585 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: of the smaller startups and go work there. Don't go 586 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: in philanthropy. There's said in their ways and what have 587 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: they done. And what I've come to realize and and 588 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: really respect about the place that I work in, about 589 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: the field of philanthropy at large, is, you know, it's 590 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: not about hacking. You know, global poverty, you can't do that. 591 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: The problems that there's no silver bullets, there is none 592 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: of that and you know this idea, you can do 593 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: an app and you know everything will be fine. No, 594 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: you have to have respect for the complexity of the 595 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: problem and then you have to just go at it. 596 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: And my days are fascinating. I mean, you can start 597 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 1: with talking about infrastructure finance, and then you know, talk 598 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: about a humanitarian crisis and rhythm refugee crisis, and from 599 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: there will go on to natural disasters in Africa and 600 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: how to think about the solutions there. So there's never 601 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: a dull moment I can imagine. Um, I was going 602 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: to ask you. We didn't get to to this question earlier. 603 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: I and I don't know if this is the focus 604 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: of the Rockefeller Foundation, but what can a foundation do 605 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: about global or domestic inequality? Is that an issue that 606 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: comes up. So one of our two goals is about 607 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: advancing inclusive economy. So we we talk about it and 608 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: think of it as inclusion that everybody gets to participate 609 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 1: in the economic bounty of a given so not just economically, 610 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: but socially as well, because you can't distinguish one from 611 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: the other. If you're a member of society, you want 612 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: people to be integrated on the social side, cultural side. 613 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: You know, economic side, give them the same opportunities and 614 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: treat them as equals. And I think philanthropy has a 615 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: role to play. One of the programs and you mentioned 616 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: it earlier that we're funding is Smart Powerful Rural Development. 617 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: It is an effort focused on trying out testing new 618 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: sustainable business models that drive like trification and economic development 619 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: of rural villages in India. That's about how do you 620 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: take somebody who's currently completely excluded from what's happening and 621 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: try to bring them into the economy, but do it 622 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: in a way where it's actually sustainable. Really that that's 623 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: quite ah, that's quite interesting. A buddy of mine is 624 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: working on this project that it's called Helical something I'm 625 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: drawing a blank on it. They essentially take what is 626 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: a a rail car or you know, the standard shipping 627 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: containers and they converted so you could basically air drop 628 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: it anywhere. The doors open it up, solar panels come 629 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: out to the top. You you purify water, you have 630 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: a satellite uplink for communication. You are able to grow 631 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: all sorts of food stock for for um, cattle and 632 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: sheep and everything. And it's the idea is you can 633 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: instantly in the response of let's say a Katrina or 634 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: some other emergency. You could instantly instant civilization with this 635 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: one thing. It's really quite that is fascinating. You know. 636 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: It's recently um in Denmark and I was visiting my dad, 637 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: who spends part of his time in Denmark now a 638 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: lot of it in Pakistan, and he was telling me 639 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: how he has a solar panel installed back home in 640 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: the village in Pakistan because there's so much load shedding 641 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: that happens. And I thought, wait, it's like you just 642 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: had it installed yourself, and he said, yes, it's about 643 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: It was like, it was like, do you have a 644 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: battery for it? And he looked at me as if 645 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: I was an idiot, and of course I have a 646 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with it? You know? How 647 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: do you get power at night? It's amazing how this 648 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: sort of decentralization. Remember when you look at let's say 649 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: telecommunications and a lot of parts of the world. You know, 650 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: it's a big deal for the United States to wire 651 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: phones to everybody, and a lot of parts of the 652 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: world just skipped over that went right to cellular I 653 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised to see something very very similar happening 654 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: with electrical distribution. They're gonna skip over that centralized authority 655 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: and say, hey, it's especially today panels are so efficient, So, 656 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: I mean, they still have a way to go, but 657 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: they're a tenth of what they were. I think that 658 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: that you need on gred and offward situations to go 659 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: hand in hand. But but but I think they have 660 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: a big role to play. I mean, you mentioned decentralization. 661 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: Another interesting thing that we're funding right now is and 662 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: it's very different from electrification, where it goes back to 663 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: the topic of inclusion is the use of blockchain technology 664 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: to create economic identities for displaced people. Now, that sounds 665 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: so in other words, Syrian refugees, everybody gets a unique identifier, 666 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: and that blockchain is a way that you can validate 667 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: who they are. So not just that, and it's more 668 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: about what it can do for the development organized less 669 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: about what it can do for the development organizations, and 670 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,479 Speaker 1: more about the individual. Today, if you're displaced from home, 671 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: you know, you may have left under god awful circumstances, 672 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: you may have some form of identification or not. You 673 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: end up in a camp, you get a number and 674 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: that's quote unquote your identity. But and then you know, 675 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: when you go from one place to another, you may 676 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: keep it, you may not, you may get a new one. 677 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: There's probably no record, collective record of what you've done 678 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: along the way. So what blockchain can allow you to do? 679 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: And we're still testing it, so so let's see what 680 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: the results are. It can allow you to record along 681 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: the way the different interactions. You have to say, you're 682 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: living in Jordan's not in a camp. You know the 683 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: refugees there live outside the camps. You get a cash 684 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 1: transfer from U n h c R regularly, right, Um, 685 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: You have a cousin that lives in Europe who sends 686 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: you money, remittances regular on a regular basis. You have 687 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: some small job that you've taken somewhere, you know, maybe 688 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: part time, maybe something. You have money that comes from. 689 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: Imagine if you had one place where all those interactions 690 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: could be recorded. So at some point in time you 691 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: want to start your own business and you go to 692 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: the bank and say I would like to take out 693 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: a loan, They wouldn't look at you and say, well, 694 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you are just a person who has no 695 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: record of showing what your credit worthiness is or isn't 696 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: you actually have the ability yourself as an individual to 697 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: choose how much you want to share with the institutional 698 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: and then figure out alternative ways of getting integrated into 699 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: the new home that you found. That that's fascinating, that 700 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: that may be the best single usage of blockchain i've 701 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: heard to date. That that's really quite interesting. So I know, 702 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: I only have you here for another fifteen twenty minutes, 703 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: and I have a bunch of questions I want to Uh, 704 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: I wanna go over. Let me just go to one 705 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: that I know I missed earlier. You mentioned about working 706 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: with the private sector. How do you integrate what you 707 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: do with both state and federal governments, local and federal governments, um, 708 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 1: other philanthropy as well as the private sector. How does 709 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: that look when a project is moving forward? Right? So, 710 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, one of the core principles that 711 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: we've always had is about building relationships and partnerships because 712 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: we realized that we never alone can come up with 713 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: the with the answer and then drive it forward. Now, 714 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,439 Speaker 1: that can take many different shapes and forms. Sometimes it 715 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: is the public sector, either the federal level or state 716 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 1: or national um sorry, state or local that we partner 717 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 1: with and then bring in the private sector, and sometimes 718 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: it may just be with the private sector. I mean, 719 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: I'll give you one example of a place where we 720 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: we've collaborated quite well across the board, and it goes 721 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: back to the to the finance work as well. UM 722 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: it's called New York City Housing Acquisition Fund, and this 723 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: was around ten ten years ago, more than ten years now, 724 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: where we came to get there with a number of 725 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: different philanthropies, the City of New York, and a number 726 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: of big banks to create this fund that was targeting, um, 727 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: creating more affordable housing units here in the city. You 728 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: know what the real estate market here looks like. You 729 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 1: know how tough it can be to get loans to 730 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: to do affordable housing. So what we did was, so 731 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 1: there's Battery Park City along with a number of different foundations, 732 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: we created a guarantee fund. At the back of that, 733 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: we attracted around two hundred million from big banks. So 734 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: you have the likes of JP Morgan City, Morgan Stanley, 735 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,479 Speaker 1: many of them or most of them that put money 736 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: into it. Now, we couldn't have done that alone. The 737 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: banks wouldn't have ventured into it because they saw it 738 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 1: potentially as a risky proposition and the city couldn't have 739 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: done it alone. And so what did that end up funding? 740 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: So they have to date deployed over three hundred million 741 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 1: UM and invested in either the preservation or the creation 742 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: of more than ten ten house affordable housing units here 743 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: in the city. And that's in down in Battery Park alone. 744 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: It's it's it's all over the city. And they continue 745 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: the work. The fund still exists. That that's quite that's 746 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: quite fascinating. You know, I wanted to ask you a 747 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: question personally. So you're you're born in Copenhagen or born 748 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: in Denmark? Is that right? And so you you grew 749 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: up there? You do a semester abroad UM at Boston 750 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: College and at George Washington for undergraduate and graduate. How 751 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: challenging was the decision to say, um, I'm gonna come 752 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:43,240 Speaker 1: work in America. By all the annual UM surveys, Denmark 753 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: is considered one of the happiest countries in the world. 754 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 1: How do you decide to I mean, do you just 755 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: not like bicycles? What makes you? Every I've been to Dencark. 756 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: I've been to Copenhagen twice and the one thing everybody 757 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: tells you is look both ways. Pretty cross the street 758 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 1: you're gonna get rund of a bike by schools. And 759 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: it's so true. It's I've never seen anything. Forget Portland, 760 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: Seattle of San Francisco, that is a bicycle city. It 761 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: sure is. And you know it's a dangerous endeavor to 762 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: drive in the city. You're here where it's dangerous to bike, 763 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: and everyone's exactly there as a as a as a 764 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: car driver. It's like you're surrounded by bikes. It's amazing. 765 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: So I I mean you mentioned, you know, my being 766 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: born in Denmark. I was. Both my parents were from Pakistan. 767 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: They had moved there back in the sixties, and as 768 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: a result of a lot of different family decisions, I 769 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 1: ended up moving and living in Pakistan for a long 770 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,800 Speaker 1: time as well. So yes, I did my basic elementary 771 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: schooling in Pakistan. I lived there for nine years, then 772 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 1: moved back to Denmark. Um was that culture shock going 773 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: back and forth like that. So I mean, if you 774 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: take kind of you know, a spectrum, you could put 775 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: Pakistan at one end and you'd put Denmark at the 776 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: exact Visit it right, Boisan is loud, it's colorful, it's messy, 777 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: it's completely it's completely unorganized, and then Denmark, on the 778 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: other hand, is calm. It's you know, very black and 779 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 1: white and gray, and it's it has a you know, 780 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 1: very different field to it. I grew up in both worlds. 781 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,879 Speaker 1: I grew up in both worlds when I was living 782 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: in Denmark. I grew up in both worlds when I 783 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 1: was living in Pakistan and visiting Denmark. Um. So for me, 784 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: I don't see the culture shock. I can start a 785 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: thought in my head in Danish and finish it in 786 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: Urdu and then say it in English. That is just 787 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: how you know what my life was like. In terms 788 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: of moving to the U S. I'd say yes, I 789 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: lived in Boston for half a year, and then I 790 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: lived in d C for a year while I was studying, 791 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 1: and then when I was at McKenzie, I did um, 792 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: I moved over to your New Jersey office. Lived in 793 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: New York, but did that for a year. And the US, 794 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: the U S. East Coast has always had a special 795 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: place in my heart. So my husband and I we 796 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: moved here eight years ago because we were getting restless 797 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: in Denmark. I was getting restless in Denmark and New 798 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: York has always felt like home right. A lot of energy, 799 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 1: a lot of dynamism, a lot of things going on here, 800 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot of messiness, lots of noise. Yes, so it's 801 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of of all the world. Exactly, very interesting. 802 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: So let's jump to some of my favorite questions. I 803 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,439 Speaker 1: asked these of all my guests. Um, we talked about 804 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 1: what you did before you started working? Who were some 805 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: started working at a Rockefell, or who are some of 806 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: your early mentors. So I think it's only now that 807 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,879 Speaker 1: I've come to think of them as my mentors. If 808 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: you'd ask me this question twenty years ago, I wouldn't have. 809 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: That's a lot of the women in my family. I 810 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: grew up in a very patriarchal society, whether that was 811 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, in our house in Denmark, or whether it 812 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: was in Pakistan, and in Pakistan I assume as patriarch 813 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: called Denmark also, No, well, a lot of that culture 814 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: from Pakistan moved over with my family to Denmark. So 815 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: so no, not wrought a Daniel society. It's the opposite. 816 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: But if you look at it, I've I've drawn inspiration 817 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: from many that you know found their own way forward, 818 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: whether that was my aunt who raised her own kids 819 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,720 Speaker 1: the way she wanted to after her husband passed away, 820 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: or my mother who was, you know, a very successful doctor, 821 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: or some of my cousins who broke away from tradition 822 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,800 Speaker 1: and did what they wanted to do, um, which was 823 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: against expectations. On the other side, I would also say, 824 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: in the more traditional sense, some of the directors that 825 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,320 Speaker 1: I worked with when I started at McKenzie um ages 826 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: Ago one in particular. I remember it was one of 827 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: my first projects. I was the junior associate on the team. 828 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,879 Speaker 1: We went in seated there with the CEO and so on, 829 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: and the CEO asked a question and the director turned 830 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: around and pointed to me, and he said, well, she 831 00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: did the work, why don't we just ask her? And 832 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: it was just I mean, it showed me that it's 833 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: about your ideas and what you have to offer and 834 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: not rank um that matters in the world. And he 835 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,719 Speaker 1: showed that by example, and he gave me the confidence. Now, 836 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 1: if the answer to this question hadn't been good, I'm 837 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: sure he wouldn't have given me the same opportunity again UM, 838 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: But that did set the tone for how I've approached 839 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,560 Speaker 1: a lot of things in my career since. Care to 840 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: share the name Michael, help you, Michael, help you, help you? 841 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: So local Danish person. Yes, And so let's talk a 842 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: little bit about what people influenced your approach to philanthropy, 843 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: who has affected how you look at the world of 844 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: affecting change for the betterment of mankind. So this may 845 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 1: sound a little bit cliche, but this was ages ago. 846 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 1: I was still in the private sector. I was getting 847 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 1: on a plane to go to some clients somewhere and 848 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: I had a magazine UM that had an interview with 849 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,879 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton. And I know it's not the popular thing 850 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: to say these days and talk about the Clinton Foundation, 851 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 1: but I talked about some of the work where it 852 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 1: laid out some of the work that they were doing 853 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,799 Speaker 1: in Africa around medicine for HIV n A. So talked 854 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: about how they had brought together different players from the 855 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: private sector to you know, reset the price off those 856 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,879 Speaker 1: medicines in that part of the world, and how they've 857 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: done it through something called advanced market commitments. And to me, 858 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,279 Speaker 1: that was completely fascinating that, you know, and I hadn't 859 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: thought of philanthropy in those terms. I thought about it 860 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: in the more traditional You just give money and then 861 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: you wait for something good to happen Um the other person, 862 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 1: and this is more around our zero gap And in 863 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: a bit of finance work I met he used to 864 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,000 Speaker 1: be the former Treasurer of the World Bank. His name 865 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: is Kenneth lay Um, and he was the one who 866 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: designed the very first green bond. Now when we talk 867 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: about green bonds and all the good and bad things 868 00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 1: that have come with it, you know, it doesn't get 869 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,080 Speaker 1: associated with the person. But you know, I've had many 870 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: conversations with him since and he keeps going at the 871 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: point and I completely agree with him, and it's it's 872 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: influenced my approach as well, which is, you know, take 873 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,320 Speaker 1: philanthropic funding to create new solutions that are sustainable instead 874 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: of putting philanthropic funding forward as concessionaire capital, cationary capital. 875 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,879 Speaker 1: That's quite interesting them that that's really quite quite fascinating, 876 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: And it's so easy to get wrapped up, especially in 877 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,760 Speaker 1: the last election, with some of the political criticisms of 878 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 1: various foundations. When you look at what the Clinton Foundation 879 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: itself has actually accomplished. They've performed a lot of extract 880 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: the politics, They've performed a lot of good and that 881 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: gets lost in the political debate. So I don't I 882 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: don't think what you're saying is especially controversial. You just 883 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: have to sometimes ignore all of the craziness around around 884 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: US elections. That has to so, as a someone who 885 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,879 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time overseas, how do you look 886 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: at US? I mean, do you I think our elections 887 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: are insane? I can't imagine someone who didn't grow up here. 888 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 1: You know, you look at the UK their elections or 889 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: they seem to last a month and a half and 890 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: it's done. This is like a never ending at least 891 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,319 Speaker 1: for this one was two years. Just someone who's far 892 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: and born but living in New York look at this 893 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,280 Speaker 1: and say, what are you people doing? This is a 894 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: giant waste of energy, um verry. You forget that I 895 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,799 Speaker 1: also grew up in Pakistan. So if I take so 896 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: an insane electoral process is in a constant state of elections. 897 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, until recently, I think we've 898 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,320 Speaker 1: had a very long period where none of the elected 899 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 1: governments had finished their attemp before there was a new election. 900 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: How does it compare to the way self governance takes 901 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: place in in Denmark? So Denmark is very buttoned up, 902 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: it's very focus. From the time you announced an election 903 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,920 Speaker 1: to the time the election happens. You're talking about weeks. 904 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: You know, there isn't any after this election, especially. Um, 905 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about books. People always ask, 906 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,640 Speaker 1: always say to me, I'm curious as to what favorite 907 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: books your guests have so related to philanthropy, finance, fiction, nonfiction. 908 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,840 Speaker 1: What sort of books do you really enjoy? So, Um, 909 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of my time reading white papers 910 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,360 Speaker 1: and such reports and those aside. I know, I know. Actually, 911 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,320 Speaker 1: my my seven year old daughter is really into Harry 912 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,040 Speaker 1: Potter these and you know, once in a while when 913 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: she sees me with an actual book, she will come 914 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: over and she was like, how long is that book? 915 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,919 Speaker 1: And I'm like, three pages, doesn't matter. I just read 916 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,400 Speaker 1: seven hundred pages. You can do this. So she's looking 917 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,120 Speaker 1: down and oh, yeah, I get shamed by my daughter. 918 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: But to mention a couple of interesting ones I've I've 919 00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,640 Speaker 1: read recently, Um, there's a fascinating book called Today We 920 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: Drop Bombs, Tomorrow We Build Bridges, and it traces kind 921 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: of the history of what has happened in the humanitarian 922 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: space since the beginning of the Afran War, post war reconstruction, 923 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: and no, not so much about post war reconstruction. It's 924 00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,759 Speaker 1: about how our humanitarian agenda has been brought closer and 925 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:24,400 Speaker 1: closer to our military priorities. Really, so, humanitarian organizations have 926 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 1: always worked on the principle of neutrality. You know, you 927 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,880 Speaker 1: go where the need is great as you do what's 928 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: needed to be done. It's not about politics. It's just 929 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: about helping the change that has changed in many ways. 930 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,360 Speaker 1: You should read the book. It's it's a fascinating recounter 931 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,759 Speaker 1: Peter gil Um. It's about what happened in Afghanistan. What 932 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,920 Speaker 1: has you know, happened since in other parts of the 933 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: world as well, where NGOs to a large extent are 934 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:57,040 Speaker 1: dependent on funding from the governments and if the governments 935 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,840 Speaker 1: want them, you know, to go to certain part off, 936 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: say a country, to perform their work there. Sometimes you 937 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: don't really have an influence over that. So if you 938 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 1: look at where the bulk of the foreign aid went 939 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,319 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, it went to the places where there was 940 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 1: also the biggest military presence. Quite fascinating. Give me another 941 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: book if you have. I just started reading it. Strangers 942 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,320 Speaker 1: at the Door. It is it looks at the moral 943 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,520 Speaker 1: crisis brought upon by you know, the massive refugee crisis. 944 00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: It kind of argues that, you know, it's it's a 945 00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,520 Speaker 1: challenge that cuts across borders, and we are all dependent 946 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 1: on each other define the right solutions. So taking a 947 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: more protectionist approach, um isn't the way forward. I mean, 948 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: it's that sounds fascinating any and then I can always 949 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,760 Speaker 1: recommend some research papers if if you're interested, I'll pass 950 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,359 Speaker 1: listen everybody. I would imagine half the listeners to this 951 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,239 Speaker 1: been a lot of time reading and finance and other 952 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:08,040 Speaker 1: such UM related papers, and the question always comes up, 953 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 1: is I want to put this aside? Give me something 954 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,319 Speaker 1: either fiction or nonfiction, biography or something else. I can't 955 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,080 Speaker 1: tell you how often the question comes up. UM. So 956 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,520 Speaker 1: those are two good recommendations. Well, we'll look into that. 957 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,799 Speaker 1: So since you joined UM the Rockefeller Foundation, how have 958 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:30,200 Speaker 1: you seen the industry changed? Meaning how is philanthropy in 959 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: the midst of adapting to the modern world. So in 960 00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 1: the last four years a lot has changed. I think 961 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:43,840 Speaker 1: more filmthropic money with big names has come in. Zukobug 962 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,600 Speaker 1: Chan initiative is just an example of that. I guess 963 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,680 Speaker 1: that's good for the broader field in terms of more 964 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,319 Speaker 1: people focusing on the things that that we focus on. 965 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,120 Speaker 1: UM I think there's been a clear recognition of the 966 00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,279 Speaker 1: role of private sector in getting to solutions, and I 967 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,759 Speaker 1: think the work around climate change and the involvement of 968 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,799 Speaker 1: the business community in that largely speaks to it. I 969 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,880 Speaker 1: think there's also been more of a recognition of the 970 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,719 Speaker 1: interdependence and problems cutting across boundaries than before. I think 971 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,720 Speaker 1: climate change again is part of it. You can't as 972 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,640 Speaker 1: one country you just solve it. You're dependent on every 973 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: other country around you. Global migration is another example of that, 974 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:32,439 Speaker 1: and then the big backlash against globalization that has come 975 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 1: to the forefront is affecting a lot of them. What 976 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 1: about big data? Is big data impacting philanthropy the way 977 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: it is impacting the private sector. So it is, and 978 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,200 Speaker 1: we do try to build solutions around it, but it's 979 00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: it's again about having context for that data, understanding what 980 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: it means and what you need to do, instead of 981 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,480 Speaker 1: blindly following it. So I'm down to my last two 982 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:59,240 Speaker 1: and very favorite questions. So if a millennial came to you, 983 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,040 Speaker 1: someone who just duated college and said I'm interested in 984 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,440 Speaker 1: a career in philanthropy, what sort of advice would you 985 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,520 Speaker 1: give them. I would say one thing, which is have 986 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 1: respect for the problems. It's something that we were talking 987 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:16,360 Speaker 1: about earlier. These are complex, messy problems. You have to 988 00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,920 Speaker 1: have respect for them. You have to really understand them 989 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,200 Speaker 1: before you start jumping to solutions. There are no quick 990 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: fixes around here, you you know. Uh. The other thing 991 00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,520 Speaker 1: I would say is you better buck up because you're 992 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,360 Speaker 1: going to get knocked down many, many, many times. And 993 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,680 Speaker 1: that is part of working in this space. You try 994 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,440 Speaker 1: many things before you get to the one that really works. 995 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 1: So be willing able to just jump in there and 996 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,360 Speaker 1: and keep going at it. You have to be resilient. 997 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 1: And yes, yes, very much, so thank you for that plug. 998 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,000 Speaker 1: And and our last question, what is it that you 999 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,080 Speaker 1: know about the world of philanthropy today that you wish 1000 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: you knew ten plus years ago when you started. I 1001 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,800 Speaker 1: wish I knew how hard it would be to give 1002 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,440 Speaker 1: away money. Really it is really really difficult. So with 1003 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,400 Speaker 1: all the other jobs I had before coming here, including 1004 00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,320 Speaker 1: city government, it was about you know, I have this idea, 1005 00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,720 Speaker 1: and where do I get the money from and what 1006 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: do I do? And then with this job, I was like, 1007 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: this is realiant. Now I'm the one who has the 1008 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,720 Speaker 1: money and I get to have the conversations about where 1009 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,040 Speaker 1: to give the ideas. It is so difficult because at 1010 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,000 Speaker 1: the core of it, our responsibility is to poor and 1011 00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 1: vulnerable people. It's precious dollars. It cannot be squandered. And 1012 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,080 Speaker 1: even though when we take risks, they're calculated risk. I 1013 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,040 Speaker 1: end with one thing. So David Rockefeller Jr. Used to 1014 00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: be on our board. He just retired last year after 1015 00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,920 Speaker 1: his term was up. And he's a lovely man, very passionate. 1016 00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: Every time we had our board meetings, you know, got 1017 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,280 Speaker 1: a chance to meet him, he would say, what are 1018 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: you working on right now? That excites you the most? 1019 00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,480 Speaker 1: I remember the first time he asked me the question. 1020 00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 1: You know, I had a slight moment of panic and 1021 00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: I was like, if I can't with conviction give him 1022 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,960 Speaker 1: an answer, you know, about to that question that I 1023 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,400 Speaker 1: don't deserve to be in this role because it was 1024 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,520 Speaker 1: you know, his family that started at all. It's because 1025 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,240 Speaker 1: of him that we're doing what we're doing, and I 1026 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,720 Speaker 1: better do a good job. Well, that sounds quite fascinating. 1027 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Saudia Madsburg of the Rockefeller Foundation. 1028 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,040 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this conversation. Be sure and look up 1029 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: an inch or down an inch on Apple iTunes and 1030 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,760 Speaker 1: you could see any of the hundred and fifteen or 1031 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:35,760 Speaker 1: so such conversations we have had previously. Uh be sure 1032 01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,120 Speaker 1: and share your comments, feedbacks and suggestions with us right too. 1033 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that again because I just totally uh 1034 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,120 Speaker 1: tripped on my own tongue. Be sure and send us 1035 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:52,440 Speaker 1: your comments, feedback and suggestions. That's the proper use of 1036 01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,680 Speaker 1: the plural words right to us at m IB podcast 1037 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,000 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. I would you remiss if I 1038 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: did not thank Medina, our recording engineer, Taylor Riggs, our booker, 1039 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,760 Speaker 1: and Michael Batnick, our director of research. I'm Barry Riholts. 1040 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.