1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: And then I started a short story prize because I 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: was like, I think we need some more underposited writers. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: And I was like, this is cool, and then I 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: was like cool stuff isn't happening fast enough. So I 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: was kind of always like this is great, but I'm 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: sure there's more that I could do to help. And 7 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I should just try writing and 8 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: see how I get on, because and I hear a 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: lot of story that I tell a lot of stories 10 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: and said that what if I just tried tried to 11 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: put that to paper. And I wrote Queenie and it 12 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: really was kind of as simple as like I wrote it, 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: submitted it to an agent. One agent said this is amazing. 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: One agent said this isn't funny or good at all. 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, that's cool because I have an agent, 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: so I actually don't worry about it. Thanks for everything, everything, everything. 17 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: And that is today's guest on Naked with Carrie Chirpy 18 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: and Candice Accardi Williams. She's an author, a screenwriter, a show. 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: One sit back, relaxed and enjoyed this edition of Naked, y'all. 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: It's the greatest suspersion. 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 3: Then the tame making Naked with Harry Champion, and Carrie 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: Chappy is going to be a champion, A Champion, and 23 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 3: Carrie Chappie and the girls a Champion, and Carrie Chppion 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 3: and Carrie. 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: Shepy the greatest sports and entertainment Naked Ward. Hey, everybody, 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: welcome back to a new edition of Naked. Before I 27 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: dive into our guest today, I know I mentioned who 28 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 2: she is, but before I dive into our guest today, 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: it's it's really kind of apropos. Our guest is from 30 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: the UK. She's from London. In personal news, I went 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: to Paris this past week to see Don Staley in 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: the South Carolina basketball team take on the Notre Dame team. 33 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 2: It was the first time in the history of women's 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: collegiate basketball, women's sport, I think on the collegiate level 35 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: that a home opener was done overseas, and it was 36 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: to do a few things. One to make history or 37 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 2: her history is, I like to say, to set the 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: tone for what the women's game could be. Because if 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: we are across the Pond or in Europe and they 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: love to watch women's basketball, just imagine what happens when 41 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: it grows more and more, including the WNBA. So I 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: thought it was a really special time. But I mentioned 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: that to you guys, just yes for conversation purposes. Shout 44 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,399 Speaker 2: out to Don Staley who made that happen. But while 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: I was standing there talking to some people during the game, 46 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: a young lady walked up to me. True story, guys, 47 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: true story. I was so surprised, and she was like 48 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: a UKREE champion and she was saying it in her 49 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: French accent, and it was hard for me to really 50 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: understand her, and I thought that maybe she was a 51 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: huge sports fan. I knew that's where we were about 52 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: to go, and I said, yes, I am, how are 53 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: you And she said to me, I listened to your 54 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: podcast every single week. I'm a huge fan of Naked. 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: Can't tell you how much it means to me to 56 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: talk to you. She was like, I just listened to 57 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: this past episode, and she's naming episodes and what they 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: mean to her and how powerful they are. And I'm 59 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: really blown away because it is a it's rare where 60 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: people say I listen to your podcast all the time 61 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: because that's how I know you, as opposed to I've 62 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: seen you on the TV show or I loved you 63 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 2: on ESPN or whatever it may be by podcast, and 64 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: not to say that my podcast is not amazing, but 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: it's usually not what people lead with. So here is 66 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: this young lady and she is talking to me, and 67 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 2: she is so legitimately excited to share with me what 68 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: she loves about the podcast. And I thought, if someone 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: is listening all over the world, this is perfect to 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: know because you don't understand what you're doing. And this 71 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: is a shout out to the team. It's a shout 72 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: out to everybody that I work with at Black Effect, 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: Dwayne and obviously Jock Queis. It's just it's just a 74 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: little bit of love to let you know that what 75 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: we're doing is is being heard and in many instances 76 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: making a difference. She she led with, you know, we 77 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: don't have a lot of strong representation of unapology, unapologetic 78 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: black women, you know in France, and I have that 79 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: with you. It was really an emotional moment for me. 80 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: I held it together. Your author, y'all know, I'm a 81 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: cry baby, but the reality was was that I thought 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: it was beautiful. And so with that being said, it 83 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: felt and I knew this we were doing this podcast already, 84 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: but it felt very apropos to have another young black 85 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 2: woman uh in another country on the podcast today after 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: I had just received that beautiful message from that young lady. 87 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: And and so I say, I say this to today's guest. 88 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: She is unafraid. I think that some of her theories 89 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: are revolutionary, Like she doesn't believe black women should subscribe 90 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: to the idea that they have to be strong all 91 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: the time. And the older I get, I I lean 92 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: into that soft girl life loading. I lean into that 93 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: her Her reasonings may be different from mine, but I 94 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: do believe that we as black women should practice more vulnerability. 95 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: I think that makes us better, in fact, even more 96 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: strong if you will. And yes, we can do it all, 97 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: but should we have to? Damn it? No. The other 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: idea is this My guest, who is an author, a showrunner, 99 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 2: a writer, wrote this novel Queenie, and Queenie has been 100 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: really praised all over the world. It's about a twenty 101 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: five year old young girl who loses everything that matters 102 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: and really I mean in terrible traumas miscarriage, loses her 103 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: job or home, you name it. And the thing about 104 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: Queenie is that she doesn't date black men. And I 105 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 2: asked Candace today, our guest on Naked Why and she said, 106 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: and she tells her reasonings as to why, and it 107 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: would have been some I'm sure, but it's her truth. 108 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: And so today I want us to just listen to 109 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: the pod because she is acclaiming writer, producer, and a showrunner. Queenie, 110 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: when it came on the scene in twenty nineteen, received 111 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: high praise, along with her two subsequent novels. Now, Candice 112 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: is working in television along with still writing, but working 113 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: in television on a project called Champion, which we'll be 114 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 2: able to see a Netflix at the top of January. 115 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: And she's also taking Queenie, this book that really put 116 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: her on the map, and she's developing it into an 117 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: eight episode series. She says, the difference though between Queenie 118 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: and twenty nineteen and Queeny today is that she does 119 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 2: have relationships, good positive relationships with black men, and she's 120 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: updated that character. I find it fascinating. I mean, I 121 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: find it absolutely fascinating how she explains her experience, her writing, 122 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: and what she presents to the world in a very 123 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: unafraid way. Sit back, relax and listen to this of 124 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: Naked Champion, and care with Chappy and care with chat. 125 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 2: All right, thank you so much for being here today. So, 126 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: just by way of background on Naked, I just asked conversation, 127 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: you know, conversational questions. I'm really curious about the story 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: of still believing in dreams and achieving dreams, which I 129 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: think we all have. That's what makes the world go round. 130 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: And I want to begin with the idea of being 131 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: a writer, that profession when it's not really formulated, maybe 132 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: in inception in junior high school, in high school, when 133 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: you're younger. How do you know when you're young this 134 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 2: is what I want to do before you can really 135 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: ascertain yourself, writing novels and being a television showrunner. 136 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,559 Speaker 1: You know, writing was never an ambition of mind because 137 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was attainable. I just I kind 138 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: of assumed it was for other people. And my job 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: it was to read. So I know that I love 140 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: books when I was growing up, and I love TV 141 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: so much, like I wrote sort of sneak watch TV 142 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: and I would sneak proop books like it was just 143 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: twenty four or seven, Like that was part of my life, 144 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: just like constantly consuming things people had written. And I 145 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: was really happy with that. And when I left university. 146 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: I saw the A Friday's girlfriend worked in publishing, and 147 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, hold on what Yeah, of course 148 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: it's a job. And I was like, how did you 149 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: get that job? And she was like, well, I did 150 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: an internship and I was like, oh, so I got 151 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: into publishing where I was surrounded by books and I 152 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: was like okay, and this is great. 153 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: This is cool. 154 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: And then I started a short story prize because I 155 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: was like, I think we need some more under opposited writers. 156 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: And I was like, this is cool, and then I 157 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: was like cool, stuff isn't happening fast enough. So I 158 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: was kind of always like this is great, but I'm 159 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: sure there's more that I could do to help. And 160 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I should just try writing and 161 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: see how I get on, because I know I hear 162 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: a lot of story that I tell it stories, and 163 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: so like, what if I just tried to put that 164 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: to paper. And I wrote Queenie and it really was 165 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: kind of as simple as like, I wrote it, submitted 166 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: it to an agent. One agent said this is amazing. 167 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: One agent said this isn't funny or good at all, 168 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: and I was like, that's cool because I have an agent. 169 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: So I actually don't worry about it. Thanks for everything, 170 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: And then I am suddenly kind of I can't really 171 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: describe it. I just sort of I looked back when 172 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: I think last year, I'm thirty four. Now I looked 173 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: back and I was like, in a minute, I've just 174 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: stepped in writing NonStop for nine years. I just haven't 175 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: looked around. I haven't thought about anything else I want 176 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: to do. So that project to projects kind of sluck 177 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: up on me and I never even had the chance 178 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: to kind of like, it feels like this is what 179 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: I can do, and I can do it best. I 180 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: can do it very well. I love the feeding of writing. 181 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: Everything else around it very difficult, but the writing itself, 182 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: I feel like this is the thing that I didn't 183 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: know that I could do. 184 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: But I can do. What do you mean? Everything around 185 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: it is difficult. Everything around writing is difficult. 186 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: So when the book comes out, you've got to publicize it, 187 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: which is but some people they love it, and I 188 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: didn't realize some people love it. Like I've got so 189 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: many friends that were like, oh, the paperback of my 190 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: poetry collection is coming out, having a big party, and 191 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to do speeches and readings and performances, and 192 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, what of it if that comes out? Yeah, 193 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: it's fine, it's out. I'm not someone who likes public 194 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: speaking or kind of any type of speaking, So I mean, 195 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: this is great, this is nice, but you know what 196 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, like people actually love it and that's their 197 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: job and they're really amazing at it. But for me, 198 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: I'm a bit like the work is the work. There 199 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: we go enjoy the work. 200 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: You know, the work is the work. Enjoy the work. 201 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: It's interesting because I call that the accoutromarts of everything 202 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 2: else that comes with having a project or doing something 203 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: that you love. That's the extra that you have to 204 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: do to sell it. So I agree, depending on your 205 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,479 Speaker 2: interpersonal and interpersonal skills, it can be more work than necessary, 206 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: right the creative aspect, how do you when you were 207 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: writing Queenie? And for our listeners, this book is world acclaimed. 208 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: It as she mentioned, one person said it wasn't funny, 209 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: one of agents said it wasn't another word said it was. 210 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: I love those moments when we make everybody wrong. I 211 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 2: love it. I love it. I love it, and it 212 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 2: took off and everyone loved it. It's about a young 213 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: woman in her twenty something twenty five, I believe thought, 214 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 2: and she loses everything that matters to her or what 215 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: someone would think would matters. Home, miscarriage, relationships, all the 216 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: things that you aspire to have, and there she has 217 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 2: it at twenty five years old, and you're able to 218 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: tell this story with Schuler. Where did you draw inspiration 219 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: for Queenie? 220 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: Queenie is kind of I can't expect, but Queenie's personality 221 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: is kind of It's a bit mine and a bit 222 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: other people, so situations are very different to mine. But 223 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: I was I've obviously written and othern't not for a 224 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: written people person and that is like fight different characters. 225 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: So I love writing characters, writing people. But queen is 226 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: the person who's closest to me in that she, I 227 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: guess handles things the way that I would handle things. 228 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: But she's not as smart as me. She's not as 229 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: sharp as me. But also because Queenie is, she was like, 230 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: she's like a few years younger than me technically, so 231 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: I'm kind of like this is like a little sister 232 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: version of me, if that makes sense. Yeah, her voice 233 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: feels I actually started rereading it yesterday because I was 234 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: about to do to write another novel, you could probably 235 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: put twoty together. And I was like, what does she 236 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: have to remind myself? Like what it's like listening to 237 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: her and what she talks like and like how she engages. 238 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: And I was like, Aha, this is funny because I 239 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: had to read that's the first time I've been able 240 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: to read it since I wrote it. 241 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: Oh, that's beautiful. You just said something. I'm sorry. They 242 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 2: just made me want to ask you to gain another question. 243 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 2: You said, she's the younger maybe a younger sister in 244 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 2: new draw inspiration from different people. What do you think 245 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: resonated with so many people? Was it these you were 246 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: or was it the vulnerability? 247 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: So what I understand because I still get messages to 248 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: this minute from people being like, oh my god, I 249 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: just read it and it's done this and the other, 250 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 1: which is amazing. It's like, that's my favorite thing. My 251 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: favorite thing is being like our people saw Less Lonely 252 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: because most people say, like, it's funny, but also they 253 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: just can't believe that there is something that could be 254 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: this messy because we've had a lot of sort of 255 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: black female protagonists who were not They have to be 256 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: strong and they have to be confident. And they have 257 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: to handle everything and be able to shout people down. 258 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: And actually a lot of the time when I was writing, 259 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: these protagonists were not written by black women, do you 260 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: know what I mean? These women were written by other 261 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: who had decided this is what black woman is, and 262 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: this is what you'll represent. And I think that Queny 263 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: comes from a real place and people can tell them 264 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: because I don't throw away from the things that black 265 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: women find hard, find difficult, but exposing. Yeah, they're real, 266 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, and they say it how I see it. 267 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: Kind of so we have to pay bills, you know, 268 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: we have to do this fast forward. If you don't 269 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: want to fast forward, listen to the voices of iHeartRadio 270 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: and learn something about advertising back in a minute. 271 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 3: Every champion and Cary champion is to be a champion, 272 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 3: a champion and carry Chappion and carry chat Be a 273 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 3: champion and carry Chappion and carry Chatty great it's sports 274 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: and entertainment and naked woo. Every champion and carry Chappy 275 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: is to be a champion, a champion and carry Chappy 276 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: and Negley champion and care with sheppion. 277 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: They carried shep afraid nat word. Everybody welcome back to 278 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: Naked I have screenwriter, showrunner and author Candice hard and 279 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: Williams on Naked You. I read that you you don't 280 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: believe that the strong black woman. You feel like that 281 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: trope is not necessarily fair. You you don't believe in that. 282 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: And I can relate to that in so many ways. 283 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 2: And I think that the idea and even if I 284 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: went trendy, like social media trendy, the idea of software 285 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: life loading. I'm hearing so many people saying that, and 286 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: I'm and I embraced that because I have said this 287 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: as a woman of means and accomplished all the things. 288 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm tired and so therefore this might not 289 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: be the story that you want to sell to everyone. 290 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 2: What what made you realize that so early on in life? 291 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: So when I was twenty three swecty s twenty three, 292 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: I got really ill. I wasn't able to leave the house. 293 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: I was anxious all the time, I was having panic attacks, 294 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: felt absolutely terrible. And I realized and this was because 295 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: I'd been told from a very young age you have 296 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: to be strong. And I was like, this is where 297 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: being strong has got me. I cannot do anything by myself. 298 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: So I was in the house maybe for about two years, 299 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: and like going to like the newsagent to get like 300 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: a bottle of water. That was like the goal I 301 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: set for myself for the week, you know. And I 302 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: realized this because I was holding so much trauma and 303 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: so much pain, because I've been encouraged from my family 304 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: and I took to them about this often to just 305 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: never let it out, just so you just have to 306 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: bury it. And I'm just not built like that. And 307 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: I had to had to acually be like you guys 308 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: might be built like that, but I have not thought 309 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: that that I'm sensitive, like I need like to be 310 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: looked after. I'm a baby, you know. And it took 311 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: me a long time to be like, okay, cool, what's vulnerability? 312 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: What was on ability to you? What does it feel like? 313 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: How far can you go? And I have like still 314 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: kind of I've still had the same set of really 315 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: close friends that I've had since I was in my twenties, 316 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: and they know everything. They know sort of like my 317 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: feelings like pain, I triumph, my happiness, and they have 318 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: recognized that in the last ten years, I've gone from 319 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: being like no, no, I'm fine, I'm find to find 320 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: to be like can I speak to you because I 321 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: don't feel okay? 322 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 2: You know? Yeah? And that took now in time, it took. 323 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: A long time to you feel comfortable saying can I 324 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: speak to you because I don't feel okay? Well even 325 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: not let alone like saying what the problem was? 326 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: You know, bell, I applaud that, And that takes to 327 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 2: me that strong You know that that the strength is 328 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: in the vulnerability. And and when you release that, did 329 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: you find yourself getting more and more healthy physically mentally basically? 330 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: Like basically yes, And but to me, I guess I'm 331 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: kind of the strongest that I've been and that's because 332 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: I don't let things anymore and people that work with me. 333 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: So obviously, I've been show running for a couple of 334 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: years now. I did a TV show called Champion that 335 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: came out on BBC in July and it's going to 336 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: be on Netflix globally in January, which I'm very excited. 337 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: I found out today the last gets to see it. 338 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: That was a that was a very difficult job that 339 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: was sort of music and TV combined, and the same 340 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: with Queenie adapting that for TV now very difficult, very difficult, 341 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: And I have to say to you, Paul, stop doing this. 342 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: I don't know this, but what really what's going on? 343 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: And I was never doing that before? And I was ill, 344 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: I was sick, my body was hurting, I was in pain. 345 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: And now I'm just kind of like, guys, what was happening? 346 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: What's going on? 347 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: And people are a bit like, oh, because don't I 348 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: expect a black women to be able to be assertive 349 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: less we get told that we're angry, But I don't 350 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: care about that. If I mind really am angry, that's okay. 351 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: I do your job properly, and I feel much better 352 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: for having done that. But also, so that was years 353 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: of therapy. I've been seeing the same therapist for four 354 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: five years now, and also actually puncture, and so I 355 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: had to also it's not enough just to be sort 356 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: of vulnerable. You also have to take such care of 357 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: your mind in that time, and therapy has been like 358 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: the biggest thing for me. Obviously. In Queenie, she tells 359 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: her grandma she spoke to a therapist, and her grandma 360 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: is like, well, no, I don't think so, which is 361 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: obviously a very Caribbean response. My prom was quite similar. 362 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: But now actually she's really leaned into it. 363 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 2: And she's like, how is your talking going? And he's 364 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: feeling better. 365 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: Which is really nice. So I would say the biggest 366 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: thing is that you have to let it out because 367 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: otherwise it will just sit and it will just consume you, 368 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: and it's physically painful. I can't imagine. I can't even 369 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: imagine doing that anymore, do you know what I mean? 370 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: You say something that I think registers are lot most 371 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: of us when we are in positions such as a 372 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: show where now that's a powerful position and you have 373 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: to be and what it's precious. What you are putting 374 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: giving out to the viewer is precious, and it should 375 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: be precious because it has your name on it and 376 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: it is your project, and you are entitled, in my opinion, 377 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: to feel whatever way you want to feel if the 378 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 2: job is not being executed properly. And you said something 379 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 2: that I think is also key in addition to doing that, 380 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: don't feel bad about being honest. Now that is the work. 381 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: Being Feeling bad about being honest about people telling people 382 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: the truth is the work you went on too. And 383 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: I was going to get into your two shows. Congratulations, 384 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: that's huge, huge deal. The sacks strike is over. That's 385 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: huge so everything is great. I love all of this 386 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: for you, But I want to talk about the other 387 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 2: the other two books that you that you have written. 388 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: In the process of writing those books, did you feel 389 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: like you had to match Queenie? 390 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: So I wrote, yeah, so the short that the novella, 391 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: which is for young adults, that's Empress n Aya. That one. 392 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: That one, it was it was small and it was 393 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: sort of like a big bust of energy and it 394 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: was twenty thousand was I wrote thinking about ten hours 395 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: because I was like, right a, ready, let me just 396 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: write the story and what I need to do. And 397 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: I write in a very sort of intense bus like 398 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: all the time. And that was really nice because I 399 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: got to talk to young people and I got to 400 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: say to that, you know, like young kids, like it's okay, 401 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: like you're like poor and your friends are really rich 402 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: and you're kind of in this what you didn't understand things? 403 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: And then people person So that was if it's a 404 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: young adult, you're like, I can't swear and I can't 405 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: talk about sex, so it's never gonna be like Queenly. 406 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: So actually it's quite freeing because you could just what 407 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: did teens like, what did I like when I was fifteen, Yeah, 408 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: and do even talk about boys like boys were kind 409 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: of just like a whatever. And then with people person, 410 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: I'd written another novel straight off the back of Queenie 411 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: and it was about like the strong friend and it 412 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: was about her friendship groups and it was about like 413 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: what it meant, and I was like, and I didn't 414 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: really I wasn't really wiping with it. So I was like, 415 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to start again for Lucky to start again 416 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: and in lockdown, but by myself. One day, I was 417 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: just like, now I'm going to do it. I need 418 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: to what am I going to do? And so it's 419 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: my big sister, and I was like, I need to 420 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: write another novel, but like I don't know what to 421 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: write about because I'm very like very impulsive even with work. 422 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: Right if something isn't working, I'll just throw it out 423 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: and start again. I know that I have like a 424 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: limited story, so I'm like, okay, it's cool. And then 425 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: we got onto like another topic and she kind of 426 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: somebody were talking about maybe a TV show and I 427 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: was like, oh, what would you and my other sort 428 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: of half siblings do if something happened to me or 429 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: like someone trys to kidnap me or something. And she 430 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: was like, well, we don't handle it. And I was 431 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: like what She was like, don't ask any more questions. 432 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: It would just be handled. And I was yeah, that's 433 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: powerful and scary and I believe her. And then what 434 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: if that happened in a novel? And then I was 435 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 1: like And then I was like waiting because no one 436 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: talks about half siblings, like what that relationship is like 437 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,719 Speaker 1: reading and then really, I've never read that. And then 438 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I spoke about the mom said 439 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: much in queenly, but what does the father mean? 440 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: Like what does that wound mean? 441 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: And so I was like, let's do it. And I 442 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: didn't really feel that pressure of it not being Queeny 443 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: because I was like, it just isn't and until it's Queeny, 444 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of not that. And I 445 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: know people like kind of expected Queenie or wanted Queenie, 446 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: but I was like, if she comes back, look at her, 447 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, like it's like, but I wrote something that 448 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: I really believed in and I really cared about, and 449 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: I think with things like Queenie, I kind of have to. 450 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: That's what it feels. So not heavy isn't the word, 451 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: but it feels so important and it feels like many 452 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: people see themselves in her, and I feel like that 453 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: sort of something that I can just do quickly or 454 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: something that I can sort of put half of my 455 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: mind on. That's something that really, after like for five years, 456 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: kind of have to sort of like regroup and be like, 457 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: what I'm going to say? What are I experienced in 458 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: five years? 459 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: I think that people liked me or people who are 460 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 2: not like Wing were you? What can they take? Right? 461 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: And what can you? And I reading it and be like, oh, 462 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: so she went through that. I know what that feels like, 463 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: you know? Correct? I love that feeling of I'm not 464 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: the only one. How would you if you take? So 465 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 2: now you're taking Queenie and you're making it. I believe 466 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: it's an eight episode series? 467 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: Is that? 468 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 2: Is that Accurst? Yeah? Okay? So how do you put 469 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 2: how do you put Queenie in eight episodes? What do 470 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: you find the most important? I know? Right? Just like it. 471 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: It sounds like such an incredible, incredible task. I do 472 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 2: not envy. What do you find most important? As you 473 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: go into this process? For those who haven't even read 474 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: the book, because there will be your new fans who 475 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 2: watch this reasoning and think, well, this is clever, this 476 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 2: is well written, this is this I want to know more. 477 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: What do you find that you need to give to 478 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: them from the book that's easily adaptable for television. 479 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. For me, it was about thinking. It was 480 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: about the key things in the book, like the key 481 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: things that she goes through, the key people. So we have, 482 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, her friends, which are really important. We have 483 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: her family who are super important, and then I've brought 484 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: in fact, it's so fun, I've brought a new character 485 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: sort of forwards because I listened to my readers and 486 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: I really did read it. Also, when I'm a writer, 487 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: when I'm on the set, when I'm on set, I'm 488 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: such an actors writer, so I like trying to listen 489 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: to like how they talk. And then as I moved 490 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: through drafts, you'll find that, like I basically accommodated, like 491 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: the little ways you talk, or as you move little 492 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: breasts that you take the really interested in people. And 493 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people were asking why is Queenie not 494 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: like black men? Like what that about? And I was like, 495 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: what it kind of all there? But obviously it's too 496 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: buried so Chesske's cousin. Chesske is her best friend, her 497 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: cousin who is mentioned briefly. He has more of a 498 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: role in this and that was super fun because it 499 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: was really nice to explore Queen's relationship with black men 500 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: in real time rather than kind of like an anecdote 501 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: here or remember when your cousin said this there. So 502 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: it's bringing out all of the key things that kind 503 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: of happens. So we have like Tom and like interocial 504 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: relationships and what that meant. And we also have the 505 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: men in her life, so people that don't treat her 506 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: as well as she deserves to be treated, and we 507 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: have I guess it was about being at what are 508 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: those key moments and how can we make them as 509 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: a live as we came to TV? But also how 510 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: can I as a writer, how can I make sure 511 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: that Queenie is sort of working as hard as she 512 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: can in this time because she was written and published 513 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: like twenty seventy, written twenty nineteen on the brain and 514 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: coming out and. 515 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 2: For me that seems to be the most difficult. How 516 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 2: do you make her relevant today? I mean, this is 517 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 2: the thing. 518 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: The lucky thing is it's just like how do how 519 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: are we today? There is no mention of COVID. There's 520 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: a mention of current affairs, because it's like, I don't 521 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: just I mean, like COVID was a really dark time 522 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: and I don't wish to immortalize it in my work, 523 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: but it was really important to think about just like 524 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: how young people are and how they how they speak, 525 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: and like listen to them. But I have like friends 526 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: who are twenty five, and so I just listened to 527 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: them and I'm like, what you're talking like? And Dionn 528 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: plays Queenie is twenty six now, which is twenty five 529 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: on We started as I tried to keep it as 530 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: I and I'm kind of like, would you say that? 531 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: And She's like, yeah, I'd say that, And so I'm 532 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: all right, kind of webt it and just making sure 533 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: that the wild around her is still reflective of what's happening. 534 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: But you know, we spoke about gentrification, we spoke about race, 535 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: we spoke about steps, we spoke about how people are 536 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: treated in the book, and those things are still applicable today. 537 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, I you know this is bold. 538 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 2: You you know you're writing what you did, especially with 539 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 2: Queenie is such an you know it is a revolutionary act. 540 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: And I say that not often, but I say it 541 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: enough for people to just stop and take a moment. 542 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: Why do you write a novel where a young black 543 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 2: girl does not date black men? 544 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk about what it feels like 545 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: when you have been let down by the black men 546 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: in your life, and how what appears in adulthoods and 547 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: what that feels record what it means. And I myself 548 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: had been let down by all of the men in 549 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: my life around me, my dad, my mom's partner, my brothers, 550 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: my granddad. I didn't have a positive male role model 551 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: when I was growing up, and so I was like, 552 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: I would find it very difficult and authentic to suddenly 553 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: conjure up someone that I'd never met before. And I 554 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: don't ever feel like I should write characters that I've 555 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: never experienced, because I'm like, but how are they real? 556 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: And obviously, so many years have past since writing the novel, 557 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: and I have met and I've become close with so 558 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: many black men who are really kind and really loving 559 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: and really caring and will look after me and will 560 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: check in on me. And so I felt like I 561 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: was able in twenty twenty two to start writing this 562 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: person who I had seen before and had I had 563 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: met before. But I can't write someone who doesn't exist, 564 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: you know, in my life, not life in. 565 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: Your life, of course. Were you worried about the pushback 566 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: because some of your some of your ideals, some of 567 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: what you represent and say in the book are sometimes 568 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: the complete opposite of what we have been taught culturally. 569 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: Were you worried about people being angry with you for 570 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: not having your main character date a black man, or 571 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: were you worried about the eyea idea that you didn't 572 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: subscribe to the trope that black women are supposed to 573 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: be strong at all times. Do any of that make 574 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: you feel uncomfortable, as in, maybe am I betraying the 575 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: culture with this? 576 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: No, I don't, like, I'm not afraid. I really the 577 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: best thing for me is like having moost debates of people, 578 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: of having those conversations. I'm a writer and I think 579 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: my job is to provoke and also to listen. And 580 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of my readers because I'm like, I'm 581 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: grateful that you've engaged in the work that's really exciting 582 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: and that's really fun. But also quity is a work 583 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: of fiction, you know. So I'm kind of like if 584 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: I write a set of essays and I'm saying that, 585 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, black men are terrible and that you should 586 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: date white, and then I'm like, okay, fair enough for her. 587 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: Could awaits a blacklash, but this is a this is 588 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: a story, you know. But also people are able to 589 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: once I've written it and it's out there, it's yours 590 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: and you can say what you want and do what 591 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: you want. I don't tech things personally, it's what and 592 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: I'm really good at midnight anyway, those closes, I'm in Massa. 593 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: That's what. 594 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: That was. Where we did it, that went to one Yeah. 595 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, every champion and Cary champions to be a champion, 596 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: a champion and carry champion, and Cary Chat be out 597 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 3: a champion and carry champion and carried chapad is the 598 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 3: sporting entertainment and naked work. Erry Champion and carry champions 599 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 3: to be a champion, a champion and carry champion. Y 600 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 3: got a champion and carry champion and carry chat be afraid. 601 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 2: Entertainment and naked work. How would you if someone said, 602 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: describe yourself as a writer in three words. That might 603 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 2: be really difficult to do But how would you do that? 604 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: How would I do that? I would say, oh God, 605 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: I would probably say authentic, uh voracious, and I would say, uh, 606 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: not really unbothered. I think I'm afraid because I'm not 607 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: really afraid of anything. I'm afraid of mice, Like that's 608 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: my biggest thing that I'm like my rod. It's like 609 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: I won't come to New York until they've sorted out 610 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: this rap thing. I can't do it. It's too much. 611 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: It's been too many times. But apart from that really 612 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: afraid of anything, I'm kind of like this is We're 613 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: here on this app one time. 614 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: How can I be scared? 615 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? But how can I 616 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: be scared to say what I feel? It's me, it's 617 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: my life. 618 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: So it's safe to say that you won't be moving 619 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: to New York because we don't like roade it. 620 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: I just can't. 621 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: It was my dream, you know. 622 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: So Zad Smith, who I think is such an incredible 623 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: She's so incredible and she's such an inspiration. She was 624 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: obviously teaching in New York, and I was like, wait, 625 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: I could I could do that? Maybe in like ten 626 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: years that I could try and do that and then 627 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: every time I came to New York, I was like, 628 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: there's a rap, there's a rat, there's a right And 629 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,479 Speaker 1: I was like, I hear't come back here, but there 630 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: is a rap person sorting out, So I'm not let's see. 631 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I don't know. I'm not for sure. I 632 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: love you for that. I love your honesty. You're like 633 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: TWU in your rats, won't do it nothing, no, unafraid, voracious, authentic. 634 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: The same can apply to your new television show. Any 635 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: concerns as you take Queenie from from paper to film. 636 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: It's a very different kind of you know, with it. 637 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: With a book you are writing by yourself and you 638 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: have an editor and a if a TV show you're 639 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: writing with ten execs, so it's different. It's low. 640 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: That's that's what you've learned. TV is a strange game. 641 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 2: The the strike is over as of last night. Did 642 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: you during this time? And I don't know how involved, 643 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: they're not involved, you were, but during this time where 644 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 2: what were your thoughts on when the when the actors 645 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 2: would be able to come to an agreement with the guild. 646 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 2: What were some of the concerns you had. 647 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is it's very different in the 648 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: UK don't subscribe to it. And if I'd said, I'm. 649 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: Just be like, no, you aren't, do you know what 650 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: I mean? 651 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: Like it's just not so loads of might have loads 652 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: of friends who are actors, and they found it very 653 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: difficult because you know, so much of what is kind 654 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: of they get what in America. But for us it 655 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 1: was kind of like we don't have I mean I wish, 656 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: I wish we happened, you know, I wish we were, 657 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: but we're not part We're not. 658 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: Part of it. Well, what you just said, your BBC 659 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 2: show went to Netflix? What about that? When it comes 660 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: to the Netflix? What's in place for you? There? Are 661 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: you not affected by the the the commission that has 662 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: given to you or the residuals if you will? No, really, okay, 663 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: it's kind of like the UK are most things handles it? 664 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: So yes, we are not. And that was it was 665 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: difficult because of course there is such solidarity always with 666 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: writers and that's just because I'm a right, I have 667 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: friends who our actors, and of course I shouldn't have 668 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: to know someone to be affected by their struggle, you know, 669 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: or to believe their struggle. But of course, if I 670 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: could have down tools. I would, but it was just 671 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: like you can't. The show was still you know, everything 672 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: was still open, everything was still going hand. So it 673 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: was like cool, oh wow, you're fascinating. It needs but 674 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: amazing to see that everyone got what they need. 675 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 2: Me too. I'm happy for them. Everyone's working and it 676 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 2: means just a lot of different I need more content, 677 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, I'm tired of flipping through the 678 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 2: streaming services. I've been dying for more content. I now 679 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: do have more content. Everybody listening Champion. Yes, it's going 680 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 2: to be based in January. That's right around the corner. 681 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: It is about two rivaling siblings in a music competition. 682 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: Can you share more? Yes? 683 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: So it's about Yes, it's about brother. Insists that the 684 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: brother is a rapper and his sister is his long 685 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: suffering pa. She also has incredible musical talent and it's 686 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: revealed quite soon on, so it's not a spoiler that 687 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: she helps it with a long his lyrics and she 688 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: understands finding she's kind of told by someone like that 689 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: there's power in that. You should leverage it. And you 690 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: know you want to be as manager, you want to 691 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: get a bit of a them for yourself. Why don't 692 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: you do that? And she's like okay, cool, and she 693 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: says to him, you know, letting me be a manager 694 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: or I want to just go and do his music thing. 695 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, do it, good luck and then 696 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: actually she's really incredible and then the rivalry begins. It's 697 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: so oh, had so much fun making it. We did it. 698 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: We filmed it in Birmingham, which is like three hours 699 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: north of London, and we also filmed, I said, in Jamaica. 700 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 2: Which was the dream. Oh wow, good for you because 701 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 2: that's your family background, right, Yes, absolutely, so I was like, 702 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: let's also it's nice to go there and take work 703 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 2: for people to do, rather than just go there and 704 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 2: be like gonna go to me? Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, higher, 705 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 2: please make it better for Outside of what we talked about, 706 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 2: a Queenie coming to television for an eight episode run 707 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 2: and Champion will be able to see in January. Are 708 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 2: there any other projects that you're working on that you 709 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: want to share with us before we let you go. 710 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 2: I am going to know I'm starting in a novel 711 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 2: and then who knows that going to have a break 712 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 2: for a little bit, but I will never have a 713 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 2: break for that long, but we have Yeah, the next 714 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 2: novel is is going to be really good. 715 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: I can say that because I as I said good, yes, 716 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: and then I'd like to write horror one day. But 717 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: that is the thing that I think I will I 718 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: will do next after the books, and I have an 719 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: essay collection coming. I saw my editor today for lunch 720 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: and she said she's already let the legal team know 721 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: that that knovel is coming and that they will have 722 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 1: to do a lot of work. Now, great, that's probably 723 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: good for you, Kennis. I'm really excited for your biger 724 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: and I loved I'm excited to see all that you 725 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: do next. I think I asked this question anyone who 726 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: is writing or feel as if they have so much 727 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: great work sitting in the drawers or somewhere under the bed, 728 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: maybe in someone like they have a writer's cabin room, 729 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: if you will, and it's sitting there because they're tired 730 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: of rejection. 731 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: And the advice you can give to those people. 732 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: I would say, keep on writing. One of the things 733 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: that I wish i'd done when I kind of wanted to, 734 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: when I first realized that I wanted to write, I 735 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: wish I'd had more work to show for it. I 736 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: think there is something really beautiful about having a body 737 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: of work, about like also being your own sort of 738 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: personal archivist and making sure that your work, even if 739 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: it's like small poems, if it's all essays, you put 740 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: them somewhere important. You either write them down, put them 741 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: in a folder. Will you make a little book for 742 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: yourself so you can look at your work and see 743 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: what you've done. I think that when it comes to writing, 744 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: it's so easy to be like, oh, I'm not published, 745 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: so I'm not really a writer. But it's like if 746 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: you are writing, are in so many circles, in so 747 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: many circumstances, the systems are against us. You know, it 748 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter who you are. I think that being an author, 749 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: being a writer, you kind of if you have an 750 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: easy run of it, it's because you fall into the 751 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: pocket or the bracket of like what publishers or editors 752 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: are looking for, and if you don't, then you're kind 753 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: of left to maybe think that you're not good enough. 754 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: But everyone has a story to tell, I think, and 755 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: I think everyone's story is just the course it as 756 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: the other. Whether or not you get paid loads spit 757 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: or you don't get paid at all, so I would 758 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: say that if you write, you're a writer. Yeah, I 759 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: have to be published, but yeah, you know that's that's 760 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: how I. 761 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 2: If you're If you write, you are a writer. You 762 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 2: don't have to be published. Kennis, thank you so much 763 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 2: for all your wisdom, being so kind and unapologetic and 764 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 2: being unafraid. That's what I think I'll about this podcast. 765 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: Ah wow. 766 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 2: Again. If you guys want to support, you can listen 767 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: to or download all of Candas's books, or you can 768 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 2: go out and buy them, or you can go to 769 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 2: Kandas Carter Williams dot com. She has our own website. 770 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 2: This is for folks who are really interested in finding 771 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 2: out more about this woman who really blew up the 772 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 2: scene in a lot of ways. Last, but not least, y'all, 773 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 2: it's getting cold, which I'm doing for the holidays. If 774 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 2: someone could just tag me into some sort of response 775 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 2: and let me know what I got going on for 776 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 2: the holidays. Are you traveling? I want to do a 777 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 2: podcast on what to do for the holidays outside of 778 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: sibature family and be mad at them. I hope everybody 779 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 2: has a great week. I'll talk to you soon.