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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host and if you're wondering what couch

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Speaker 1: Talks is, it is the special bonus episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast where I answer questions that listeners send

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Speaker 1: to me and you can email those to me at

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Speaker 1: Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. Quick reminder

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Speaker 1: before we get in two couch Talks today that this

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Speaker 1: podcast does not serve as a replacement or a substitute

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Speaker 1: for actual mental health services, although we hope that every

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Speaker 1: episode helps in some way. So if you are a

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Speaker 1: newer listener to couch Talks, I answer a question, usually

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Speaker 1: only one that a listener sends, and we keep it anonymous,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to worry about anybody knowing that

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Speaker 1: you sent this question in or any of that. Never

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Speaker 1: will say your name, but just know that whatever you

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Speaker 1: send in the email, most of the time I will

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Speaker 1: read that, So if you don't want me to read something,

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Speaker 1: let me know. Sometimes people say I want to give

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Speaker 1: you more information, but don't read this when you answer

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Speaker 1: the question, and that can be helpful and helpful for

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Speaker 1: you because it protects you a little bit more. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to get right into the question today, and

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Speaker 1: here it is. Hi, Kat, I love your podcast. I've

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Speaker 1: been listening to it for a while and look forward

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Speaker 1: to listening to the new one each week. I'm a

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Speaker 1: nurse right now and just started school for clinical mental

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Speaker 1: health counseling. I've been struggling with an eating disorder for

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Speaker 1: about five and a half years. I am getting to

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Speaker 1: a point in recovery where I feel as though it

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Speaker 1: should be getting easier, but it's only getting much harder.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any tips on how to keep going

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Speaker 1: and or how to not feel like I'm making a

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Speaker 1: total mistake by going back to school to be a therapist?

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Speaker 1: Why I still have a mental health disorder? Thank you? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So this question is really good and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: split it into those two parts. So the first part

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Speaker 1: that you said was tips on how to kind of

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Speaker 1: keep going when recovery keeps being hard? What do I

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Speaker 1: need or what might be helpful? And then also, how

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Speaker 1: do I feel like I'm not making a mistake by

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Speaker 1: going back to school to be a therapist when I'm

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Speaker 1: struggling myself? So I want to tackle that question first,

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Speaker 1: because it's something that I think comes up a lot

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Speaker 1: A lot of people wonder but never ask out loud, like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I have some stuff like can I still be a

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Speaker 1: therapist even though I struggle with some of the things

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Speaker 1: that I might be helping my clients with? So let's

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Speaker 1: start there. So is it a mistake for going back

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Speaker 1: to school while you have a mental health disorder or

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Speaker 1: you have any issues going on? Or can you still

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Speaker 1: be a therapist while you're struggling yourself? Can both things

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Speaker 1: happen at the same time? And we're going to start

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Speaker 1: with my favorite way to answer questions by saying it

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Speaker 1: depends yes. And also sometimes know the severity of what

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Speaker 1: you're going through is really crucial, And it's pretty common

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Speaker 1: a lot of therapists become therapists because they've had some

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Speaker 1: experience with therapy themselves or their own mental health journey themselves.

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Speaker 1: So obviously therapists all over the place have and have

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Speaker 1: had their own struggles and possible diagnoses that their clients

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Speaker 1: might also have. This does not mean they can't be

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Speaker 1: a good therapist, and actually a lot of times it

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Speaker 1: gives them some leverage because they've gone through that experience

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Speaker 1: and they know what it really feels like. So I

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Speaker 1: think a better question to ask rather than oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like, am I making a mistake? Can I

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Speaker 1: do this? It's what do I need to be able

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Speaker 1: to take care of myself and also show up as

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Speaker 1: a therapist at the same time, And is it possible

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Speaker 1: to get that? If you're actively in crisis mode, it

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Speaker 1: can make things really difficult to do your job, often

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Speaker 1: nearly impossible. So, like I said, the severity is very important,

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Speaker 1: but we're all bound to struggle just as the rest

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Speaker 1: of humanity right as we move through life. I say

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Speaker 1: therapies for everybody, well, therapies for therapists too, because we're

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Speaker 1: also part of the everybody. So it would be really

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Speaker 1: unfair to say that you can't be a therapist if

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Speaker 1: you have your own stuff. With that, we have to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge our stuff because our unfinished work can make it

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Speaker 1: impossible to show up. I'm biased with clients. I might

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Speaker 1: experience countertransference more if I'm avoiding my own behaviors, and

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Speaker 1: then I might minimize or project what I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: avoid onto my clients, and we don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: I also believe that authenticity is really really important to

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Speaker 1: own and to stand in as a therapist. And if

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Speaker 1: we're avoiding our own work, then it can create like

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Speaker 1: a thicker blanket of shame on what we need to acknowledge.

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Speaker 1: So then we get deeper in our stuff and deeper

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Speaker 1: in our struggles. So we have to be really honest

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Speaker 1: and show up as authentic. And there's a difference between

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Speaker 1: being authentic and being transparent. We don't need to be

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Speaker 1: transparent with our clients, absolutely not, but we do need

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Speaker 1: to be authentic. And if we're teaching people how to

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Speaker 1: be authentic, we have to be able to model that

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Speaker 1: because then we're going to give them a very skewed,

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Speaker 1: warped view of what that is. And as I say this,

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Speaker 1: this is not to say that I haven't had really

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Speaker 1: hard days, in hard weeks and hard bunths while working

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Speaker 1: and while being a therapist. Quite the opposite. I've had

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Speaker 1: all of those. And what I would encourage anybody who's

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Speaker 1: working on something like an eating disorder while they're in

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Speaker 1: school for therapy or even while they are a therapist,

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Speaker 1: make sure you have a active support team. And I

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Speaker 1: say team like that's more than one person. You need

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Speaker 1: to have a group of people that can help keep

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Speaker 1: you accountable and also support you so you can show

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Speaker 1: up and be honest. And something else to consider. If

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Speaker 1: I'm active in an eating disorder, we have to look

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Speaker 1: at severity. This is a very sticky and iffy thing

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Speaker 1: to talk about to a mass group of people because again,

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Speaker 1: it depends and it very much depends on a variety

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Speaker 1: of things. But if I have struggled with an eating

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Speaker 1: disorder before and I'm an early recovery or some of

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Speaker 1: my behaviors are popping up, that might be a clue

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Speaker 1: to me that, hey, I need some boundaries and it's

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Speaker 1: important for me not to work with those clients because

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Speaker 1: I can't show up with what they need and they

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Speaker 1: might be triggering stuff in me. And that's something to know,

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Speaker 1: Like not every therapist can work with every type of client,

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Speaker 1: and that's not a bad thing. That's good. Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: noticing what I'm not good at and what doesn't help

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Speaker 1: me stay grounded and what I've learned and what I've

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Speaker 1: worked on in my own therapy. That's okay. You may

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Speaker 1: also want to consider engaging and just extra coping skills,

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Speaker 1: Like even when you think you're fine, just some extra

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Speaker 1: self care, some extra love, you take some extra precautions,

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Speaker 1: and you might need some extra supervision with some clients.

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Speaker 1: Because it's just really important to put our clients first

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Speaker 1: when it comes to us giving them care. They are

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Speaker 1: trusting us with their mental health. And if I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm putting someone at risk because I can't show

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Speaker 1: up because of my own stuff, that's a big red flag,

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Speaker 1: and I need to put myself first, so then somebody

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Speaker 1: else can put my clients first. So both of us

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Speaker 1: are being put first, but in different ways, if that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Again, everybody's going to have a day or

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Speaker 1: days when they are thinking to themselves, like what just happened,

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Speaker 1: and what did I do? Did my stuff just get

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Speaker 1: in the way, Like was I experiencing some countertransference? Like

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Speaker 1: that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when

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Speaker 1: our own struggles are consistently getting in the way of

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Speaker 1: our ability to maintain our recovery or get what we need,

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Speaker 1: or getting in the way of me actually giving a

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Speaker 1: client what they need. If my quality of health is

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Speaker 1: interfering in my ability to give quality care, what I

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Speaker 1: can't do is force you and make you understand that

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Speaker 1: you're not making a mistake, because for all I know,

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Speaker 1: there's some digging that you might need to do with

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Speaker 1: your own therapist about that to be more grounded in

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Speaker 1: your belief about yourself and what you're doing. So what

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Speaker 1: I can't do is tell you, oh, yeah, you're making

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Speaker 1: a mistake or no you're not and this is why.

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Speaker 1: But I can encourage you to talk about your situation

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Speaker 1: with hopefully a therapist or maybe even some of the people,

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Speaker 1: some of your professors or teachers, or ask other therapists

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Speaker 1: like how do they cope with this and what does

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Speaker 1: that look like for them? So you can look at like, hey,

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Speaker 1: am I trying to minimize what I'm going through? Or

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Speaker 1: am I catastrophizing what I'm going through? Both of those

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Speaker 1: are extremes, and we like gray over here, so we

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Speaker 1: need to make sure if we're doing one of those. Now,

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Speaker 1: for the second part, you ask for tips to help

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Speaker 1: ease the continued difficulty of recovery, like what do I

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Speaker 1: need to do to allow myself to keep staying in

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Speaker 1: this and keep trying and keep giving myself the care

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Speaker 1: that I need even though it's consistently hard. And I

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Speaker 1: always like to say, we need to find ways to

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Speaker 1: make it easier for us to succeed rather than ways

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Speaker 1: to push us through hard things. And that might be confusing,

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Speaker 1: like what do you mean by that? And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to explain. So, eating disorders are often lifelong battles. And

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Speaker 1: I don't say that to scare you, but I say

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Speaker 1: that because we can be in recovery, but staying in

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Speaker 1: recovery can still feel like there's work to be done.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't just like, oh, you, we are in recovery now,

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Speaker 1: and now you can just you know, not worry about

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Speaker 1: anything and just act like you're in recovery. No, like

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Speaker 1: to stay in recovery. There are things that I have

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Speaker 1: learned to get to this place that I have to

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Speaker 1: still do and when I stop doing them, well, no bueno.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about eating disorders is you're facing your

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Speaker 1: addiction every single day and it's glorified and glamorized, and

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Speaker 1: it's pretty easy at times to make unhealthy behaviors that

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Speaker 1: are part of our eating disorder look okay and kind

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Speaker 1: of like convince ourselves that, like, oh, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: this is taking care of myself because this said this

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Speaker 1: on this commercial or this person said this on TikTok

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Speaker 1: and you can rationalize a lot of that behavior. I

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Speaker 1: also think there is a hump in recovery that isn't

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Speaker 1: talked about nearly enough, and maybe this is what you're in.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes recovery can be really, really exciting. In the beginning.

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Speaker 1: You're getting this new lease on life, You're rejecting all beliefs,

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Speaker 1: and while that is scary, that changes can feel like

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Speaker 1: so empowering because oftentimes the changes that your maker can

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Speaker 1: be kind of extreme. And what I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: talked about in this part is while that is happening,

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Speaker 1: while we're doing this stuff and we're excited and we're

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Speaker 1: feeling this rush of this new lease on life, our

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Speaker 1: addictions are doing these pushups in the back of our minds,

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Speaker 1: in the back of our heads while we're kind of

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Speaker 1: ignoring them. And then we get to a point where

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Speaker 1: the newness has worn off and we start to wonder

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Speaker 1: if we made a mistake. And then just at the

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Speaker 1: point where we're like, oh, you know, this isn't as

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Speaker 1: fun and bright and shiny anymore, that addiction comes slipping

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Speaker 1: through the cracks with new tricks and like bigger biceps,

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Speaker 1: and it can feel really hard to fight back and

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Speaker 1: we've lost some steam already, and so then we lose

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Speaker 1: even more steam because we were like fighting this bigger battle,

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Speaker 1: and we start to think, is it always going to

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Speaker 1: be this way? You know, I'm just going to go

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Speaker 1: back to how it was before because this is exhausting,

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Speaker 1: and then we start to get this rosy retrospect and

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Speaker 1: we forget how exhausting. Also a life full of an

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Speaker 1: eating disorder was as well. And I really want to

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Speaker 1: normalize the experience of recovery getting harder because it is normal.

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Speaker 1: It is something a lot of people experience, and there

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Speaker 1: might be some shame wrapped up in that of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be this hard anymore, like what am I

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Speaker 1: not doing or what's wrong with me? Or my situation

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Speaker 1: is different, and it happens a lot. I want to

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Speaker 1: encourage people to not get fancy with your recovery when

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Speaker 1: it is hard. Let it be hard and go back

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Speaker 1: to the basics. Eating disorders are usually developed as a

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Speaker 1: means or a way to survive something, so it makes

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Speaker 1: sense that those survival instincts come back. They will come back.

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Speaker 1: Instead of getting down on yourself, offer yourself some perspective,

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Speaker 1: some understanding, and a big load of compassion. You might

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Speaker 1: need to reevaluate the content you allow yourself to consume.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you're causing yourself some extra hoops to jump through

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Speaker 1: that you might not want to jump through, and you

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Speaker 1: might not need to jump through. And it's scientifically proven

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Speaker 1: that the people around us have a direct impact on

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Speaker 1: what we think and how we feel. And in today's culture,

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Speaker 1: what we have lacked and acknowledging is we know that's true,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes the people around us in votes tend to

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Speaker 1: be online personalities, influencers, celebrities, and we might want to

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Speaker 1: reevaluate if we want to jump through those hoops, if

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Speaker 1: we want that stuff to rub off on us, and

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Speaker 1: we have to fight that. So that's one thing I

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Speaker 1: would just encourage you to look at do I need

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Speaker 1: more support? Like do I need to go back to

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Speaker 1: the basics? Do I need to talk about this more.

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Speaker 1: You might think, oh, I've been there, I've done that,

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Speaker 1: I've processed this, I've gone through that. But if you're

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Speaker 1: having thoughts and struggles in your brain, not processing those

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Speaker 1: with a therapist is not going to help you. If

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Speaker 1: you're cycling in your head, you need to get that

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Speaker 1: stuff out, journal it, draw it paint it, get it out,

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Speaker 1: and again I say that going back to the basics

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Speaker 1: what helped in the beginning. Okay, we're not above that.

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Speaker 1: We might have to go back and do that again.

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Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say is, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of goes with the like, reevaluate the people that we're

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Speaker 1: falling and around. It's just boundaries. Do I need to

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Speaker 1: tighten up boundaries a bit? There are things that I

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Speaker 1: personally will never be able to just not care about.

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Speaker 1: There are conversations that I can't have in places that

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go because they don't make me

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Speaker 1: feel good. And if I do go to them again,

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Speaker 1: I put myself in a position to have to jump

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Speaker 1: through a hoop that is not necessary and that's going

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Speaker 1: to wear on you. So I have to ask myself,

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Speaker 1: am I making it harder on myself? Am I adding

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Speaker 1: like salt to the wound by saying, Oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: those boundaries can be a little looser. I don't need

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Speaker 1: that anymore, or I could do that now I can

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Speaker 1: handle that. Well, maybe you tried and didn't work. So

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Speaker 1: we need to take a step back and reevaluate our

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Speaker 1: boundaries again. It goes back to how do I make

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Speaker 1: things easier for me to succeed. We don't have to

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Speaker 1: challenge ourselves all the time if it's not helping us.

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Speaker 1: There's a time for a challenge, and there's a time

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Speaker 1: to say a challenge isn't really worth it. I don't

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Speaker 1: need to push through it. I can take responsibility for

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Speaker 1: what doesn't work for me. And again, what I want

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Speaker 1: to say is with this therapy, therapy, therapy, if that

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Speaker 1: is something that you are able to access, and if

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Speaker 1: you're in school to be a therapist, especially a lot

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Speaker 1: of programs, you have to be in therapy to graduate.

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Speaker 1: So use that, allow yourself to use that, bring it up.

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Speaker 1: Then ask these questions that you're asking me in that

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Speaker 1: room and see what comes up. Therapy programs, groud programs

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Speaker 1: can bring up a lot of stuff, stuff that we

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Speaker 1: never thought about, stuff that we thought we had gotten

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Speaker 1: through already, and so there could be some internal sense

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Speaker 1: of self work coming up. Also, think about, like I

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Speaker 1: said before, when we were talking about countertransference, how like

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Speaker 1: our clients are bringing stuff up in us. We need

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge that. And if that's a hoop that I'm

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Speaker 1: pushing myself to jump through, I need to say Hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm learning something about this countertransference and I need

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Speaker 1: to create boundaries around how I engage with clients or

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Speaker 1: the types of clients I work with. So I could

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Speaker 1: talk about this all day, per usual, I can talk

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Speaker 1: about a lot of things all day, but I want

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge that, like, yeah, five and a half years,

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Speaker 1: it sounds that you've been doing this for long enough

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Speaker 1: and it should just like you know, I should be

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Speaker 1: at this point now. But recovery, although we want it

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Speaker 1: to be super linear and like a straight path straight up,

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Speaker 1: it can be really squiggly, and we sometimes have to

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Speaker 1: go back to the beginning and back to the basics

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Speaker 1: and reevaluate things. And so allow yourself to do that,

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Speaker 1: allow yourself to acknowledge that it's hard, knowing that that

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Speaker 1: is not something to be ashamed of. It's just kind

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Speaker 1: of part of the process for a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: So I hope that was helpful as always, and I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys are having the day you need to have.

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Speaker 1: I also hope that I see some of you guys

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Speaker 1: on Saturday at the Four Things with Amy Brown Live

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Speaker 1: show that's in Natural. I will be there, and so

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Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing some of you guys and

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Speaker 1: us having the night we need to have at that point.

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Speaker 1: So if you're coming on Saturday, I will see you Saturday,

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Speaker 1: and if not, I will talk to you guys again

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Speaker 1: on my day