WEBVTT - $69 Million Art Auction Is Just The Beginning For NFTs 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.520 you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.600 with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.439 on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.680 at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, there is 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:29.160 no way for me too politely, UM express my reaction 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:34.280 to the non fungible token auction news that we got yesterday. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.720 I mean, I think most people when they saw this 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.239 headline n f T SAIDs digital art record in sixty 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:46.320 nine million dollar sale. Um, most people have been shocked. 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.280 And everybody I've spoken to, granted they've all been over 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.320 the age of nineteen, has had trouble explaining it. So 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.760 we're gonna bring in John Louise, president of Ava Labs, 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:00.360 and may be able to better to help us better 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:05.640 understand what happened yesterday. Um, when someone agreed to pay 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.200 sixty nine million dollars for a piece of digital code 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:18.240 somehow attached to artwork. John, Uh, please give it a shot. Hey, Paul, 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.200 Hey Matt, thank you for having me and Paul's nice 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.600 to talk. It's been many years since I was on 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:24.680 the by side as a techi media industor and you're 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.880 on the shell side, So I thank yeah. So I 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.039 think it was fantastic. First of all, how cool was 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.160 it to watch the artist's live stream or and watch 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:36.600 it later on on YouTube and streamed the actual auction. 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.000 You got to see how they were. They went from 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.200 three to fourteen, then you have some big jumps to 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.000 fifty and then straight to sixty nine. That was just incredible. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.200 So I think, you know, what happened yesterday is really 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:51.200 a function of not how not just how much people 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.240 appreciate people's art, which is fantastic. His previous piece sold 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:58.200 Little Ways Back for six million, so he's a fantastic artist. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.800 But it's also uh enthusiasm for the whole space because 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.000 a lot of people now thinking what n F keys 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.720 can be and what they will do the end. Let's 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.440 start with that. Let's start with what it is John, 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.480 because I think people's art is pretty cool too. But 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:21.600 what was it that son bought? Okay, so he bought 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.560 basically an Offlencible token, which is basically a unique digital 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.600 representation of that and he actually had the only one 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:36.280 of that representation. But it's a line of code. But 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.799 I mean think about it though, the whole space, So 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.440 that art is fantastic, but the whole space is interested 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.920 in this area because business models are going to change. Um. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.680 The collectible side of this is exploding. Also because the 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.560 code enables place discovery better. What I mean by that 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.959 is because it's cold code, because so it's frictionless. Suddenly 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.640 you don't have to have paperwork and paperwork upon paperwork. 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.200 It's digital, and then you have global asset access, giving 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.840 more people around the world to participate in these things, 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.800 and that leads to the better price discovery. I just 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.520 talked about participating watching it on YouTube. I was fortunate 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.440 enough as an investor together to go say, I saw 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.120 that Visa competitors to Christie's and watch how these auctions 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.920 were done. Suddenly everyone can participate and watch it and 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:34.160 see how this was done through the uh oh no, 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.040 oh no, we lost John, did we? And in an 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.080 age where you can pay sixty nine million dollars for 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.960 a line of code, we can't get phone lines to 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.520 stay good exactly. I mean, I agree with you, Matt. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.360 I I found it is fascinating I'm trying to get 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:50.920 I'm still trying to get my head around n f 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:53.640 t S and fortunately there's a Bloomberg quick take there 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.200 that that really further my education. But you know, I 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.960 guess it's just a question of simply, uh you authenticating 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.120 these things, John, Do we have you back? Yes? I'm back? Sorry, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.360 all right? John? So yeah, go ahead. So I don't 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.000 know where I left off, but you know, I was 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.000 saying I'm very excited about n f t S in 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.880 general and all these artists using it because business models 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.560 can change. And what I mean by that is there 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.159 are there are other rock bands, groups, events, stuff, people 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.920 all calling us to help them create n f t s. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.919 So right now, ticketing, I mean the QR code is 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:33.440 actually fraud with fraud. UM artists now can actually program 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.880 secondary sales and get a percentage of the sales like 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.440 they couldn't before. So it's almost like a friend star 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:46.600 getting royalties. Tell us. So, I'm president of Ava Labs. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.920 We are a blockchain, the next generation blockchain that provides 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:54.159 the scale and speed to enable transactions like yesterday's UM 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.320 sail in and what does and what does Justin Son? 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.159 So Justin Son is the investor who bought this. He 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.320 paid in ether, which is kind of a cool side note, 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.520 but what does he I mean he doesn't get a 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.960 painting or there's nothing signed by people. Um what does 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.520 he have with this line of code? Like can you 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.920 click on it and see the artwork? Or um, I 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.680 mean I can't get it? So he can have the 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.800 representation of it on his phone. He's the only one 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.279 that has it. But you don't really know what he 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.320 wants from it. Maybe this is the way he thinks 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.159 of his digital identity, his sovereign identity in other words, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.719 like we're becoming more digital every single day, and maybe 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.320 this is the way he wants to represent himself. Think 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.240 about way back when when Prince had a big fight 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.480 with his label because basically the Prince name was effectively 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.040 owned by you know whatever label he was at, and 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.520 suddenly he trade these symbols to represent who he was 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.280 to end around that process. So maybe Justin is using 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.040 this as a future sovereign identity and to represent and 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.200 who he is, and that could be very cool. It 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:03.960 does say a lot about him. He paid a lot, 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.200 so that tells you something about him, and it tells 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.679 you a style of interest in art, so that maybe 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.520 what he's trying to use it for. Alright, So he's 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.680 speculating because he thinks he can resell this because there's 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.960 far more access around the world to buy this and 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.760 there's better price discovery. So in theory, I guess I've 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.239 also seen news John that you know Lebron James Uh 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.960 creating an n f T on a highlight reel. So 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.720 this can be applied in theory to almost any type 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.720 of content, couldn't it. That's right, that's right. Unlike the 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.000 UH content, a lot of the content we used to study, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.120 I'm not sure the content that's being created, and some 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.200 of these NBA Top shots stuff can be resold. It 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.000 is really more of a collectible and there's an emotional connection, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.000 just like someone buying baseball cards. They have an emotional 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.400 connection to that moment, that shot, and they're willing to 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.719 pay a high price for it, just like I have 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.240 a at a baseball card somewhere that probably is not 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.520 worth that much, but it means a lot to me personally. Alright, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.320 So what are some of the next applications we should 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.280 look for? That's exactly what I was gonna ask. I 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.640 think you can see business models change UM event ticketing, 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:19.160 for instance, right now the artists basically sell tickets and 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.720 it goes out to the world and sometimes there's resales 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.600 of it through ticket Master and other places. Suddenly they 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.160 can have control and see where those tickets are going. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.120 And it's better in the sense that you know, QR 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.880 codes is can easily be replicated and three or four 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.080 people can show up for that same seat. This will 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.400 be harder going forward. Like I said before, artists now 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:44.120 can have UM basically streams of revenue associated with secondary 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.480 sales of their UH collectibles to collect those their art 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.920 or whatever it is. Wow. This it opens up so 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.400 many different avenues. I'm not sure where to go, but 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.680 this is I feel like we're obviously the very very 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:57.520 very early innings here and we can learn a lot 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.640 more as we go along. John Wu, thanks so much 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.320 for joining us. John will He's a president of AVA Labs, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:08.080 are based in Miami. Well President bidens one point nine 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.880 a trillion dollar bill that was recently signed that brings 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.560 the total, including last year, to six trillion dollars in 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.680 fiscal stimulus tied to the coronavirus. The question is is 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.240 that enough? Is that too much? Let's dig in with 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:26.160 Near Cassar. He is a Bloomberg opinion columnist and along 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.720 with Tim O'Brien, uh Near rhoda column saying, you know 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.599 what bidens were on COVID demands, war time stimulus and 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.800 it certainly feels that way. Near, thanks so much for 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.959 joining us here. When you think about the fiscal studies 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.080 that we've you know, put through again at six billion 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:45.400 dollars or put that in context for us, well, you know, 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.960 there's a lot of handwrying about the size of this 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.120 of this relief effort, and I think it's more relief 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.480 than stimulus, um. And it does seem like a lot 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.719 of six trillion dollars is a lot of money. But 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.160 when you put an historical context, when you look at 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:03.120 you know, other big spending measures and we we used 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.320 as an example, you know, what we spent on the 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.480 World War two effort. When you put that in the 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.520 context of a larger economy, it's it's not it's not 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.679 that big. I mean, one thing to keep in mind 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.440 is we have a twenty one trillion dollar economy, so 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.679 six trillion dollars on that is just under thirty in 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:24.440 five alone. Um. You know, defense spending was GDP, so 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.400 when you put in broader context, it doesn't appear as big. 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.880 Now that doesn't mean that there aren't reasons to criticize it, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.439 as we have said, there are. You know, we wish 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.080 that the six trillion dollars had been spent more, let's 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:40.160 say smartly, you know, more targeted relief, more on infrastructure, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.280 education and public health. But size doesn't seem to be 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.320 a very smart criticism of this, of this relief effort. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.000 I don't know, man, I mean to use the term 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.000 hand ringing when talking about six trillion dollars seems a 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.439 little bit loaded. That's a lot of money. And to 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.520 compare this to World War Two, in which seven five 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:07.200 million people died, seems um a grand gesture. I think 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.920 it's fair to say this is an absolute ton of 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.000 money going into the economy. And I don't think that 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:22.280 Larry Summer's concerns about overheating are going too far. Um. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.079 It's it's not that I don't have sympathy for people 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.200 who have lost jobs. I do, and I think it's 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.240 alarming when you look at um initial jobless claims were 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.360 at records every single week since August, and you know, 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.200 it's worse than it was in a great financial crisis. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.079 But still, this is a big sledgehammer with which to 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.440 hit this problem. And I think a comparison to World 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.520 War Two is just going a little far. Well. I mean, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.320 you can compare it to to f fine, I mean, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.079 you can compare it to anything you liked. I mean, 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.640 but not something in which seventy million people died, because 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.720 that's an even bigger pandemic than this, by like exponentially bigger. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.839 Well not in the US, and fairness right, so many 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.000 five million people didn't die in the US, but but 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.599 way more how many people how many Americans died in 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.080 World War Two? But let's leave that aside for a minute. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.160 I mean, I think what we ought to talk about 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.800 is what is it that we're trying to solve, what 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.199 should be the solution, and what are the potential problems. 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.000 I mean, one of the things that Lara's Summers is 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.520 worried about, as a lot of people are worried about installation. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.920 But if I said to you, show me where inflation 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.880 is is worrisome in this moment, it would be very 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.400 difficult to produce that evidence. I mean, in theory, you 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.640 could get more inflation from the cocktail factors that are 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.439 on the table. Supply chains obviously are strained. There's a 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.680 lot of stimulus and relief that's been spent. Uh, you know, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.560 saving has spiked. All of that in theory would cause inflation, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.320 but there's no we haven't seen inflation. There's no reason 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.600 to think that worse in inflation is actually on the horizon. Now, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.120 now couple that with the fact that you have a 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.440 lot of people in this country that are suffering. Yes, 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:04.599 a lot of people have done okay in this pandemic, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.040 but there are, by by good estimates, there are more 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.480 than fifty million people in this country that are food 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.200 and secure. Those people have to be said, um, and 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.600 so we can argue, especially since their food costs more 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:18.080 and more near even though you haven't seen inflation, there 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:24.560 has been right in food prices and gas. Well, I 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.640 mean maybe I should ask you what would you how 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.760 would you propose to solve the problem? No, I I'm 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.320 just pointing out I think that, um, it's better to 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.959 air on the side of spending too much than too little. 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.520 But you can't say that we haven't seen inflation and 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.560 then start talking about people who can't afford food, when indeed, 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.839 we have seen inflation. Look at ground beef prices, they 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.040 continue to march higher and higher and higher. Look at 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.559 gasoline prices. Paul filled up for three dollars ago. And 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.760 so we have seen inflation. And listeners and viewers get 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.439 really angry when they have trouble paying the grocery store 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.080 bill and it's expensive to dry. I'm there, and then 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.800 they hear on Bloomberg Radio that we haven't seen inflation, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.960 because of course we've seen inflation. It's just that, you know, 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.760 maybe iPads aren't more expensive, but the stuff they need 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:15.480 to live is more expensive. Hang on, we should share 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.840 the number. So, as you know, core CPI last month, 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.559 the number came in less than expected. Year over year, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.440 core CPI is up one point three percent and CPI 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.400 is up one point seven percent. That's still well below 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.000 the FEDS targeted two percent and well below the historical 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:34.000 inflation rate going back to one of two point two percent. 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.319 So while we can cherry pick, you know, one of 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.880 the other, uh, one of the other sort of data point, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:44.560 the larger picture still shows that inflation has um has 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.040 been low and and if anything, we're having trouble even 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.319 with the six trillion dollars. We're having a trouble getting 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.440 it up. And by and by the way, that's been 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.559 the story of the U S since the financial crisis. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.080 People have been screaming inflation since then and the four 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.240 trillion dollars we spent to stimulate men and we still 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.600 haven't gotten inviation. So I also want to I also 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.319 want to point out here that you are correct. I've 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.319 I've looked into it. Well, in terms of World War two, 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.760 more people, many more people have died of COVID in 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.760 America than died from World War two. Two thousand soldiers 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.480 were killed in the war thanks to my producer, and 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.040 well over five hundred thousand have died from COVID. So 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.920 maybe it is a fair comparison near case or thank 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:31.080 you so much for that. We appreciated Lauren sour now 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.520 for our weekly visit the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.800 where she is an Associate Professor of Emergency Medicine. Lauren, 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:43.600 we heard President Biden yesterday say that all adults should 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:49.960 be eligible for vaccines by May one. Does that seem 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.560 aggressive or reasonable to you? I think it's probably both. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.280 Actually it is. It will need to be aggressive in 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.280 order to meet it. But I think it's reasonable to 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.960 think that with some of these novel strategies that we're 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:06.320 going through UM and turning on now that you know that, 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.360 that we could see UH May first target date. I 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:12.400 guess I would call it to get vaccine into the 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.520 arms of every American. I mean, I think the key 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.160 about meeting that deadline is going to be beyond setting 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.240 up the infrastructure and making sure UM taking that next 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.200 step to make sure that people are there waiting to 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.120 receive it, UM, that they can have the access points 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.400 and safely get to the vaccine, and that they're willing 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.400 to make it. So a lot of community work has 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.320 to happen between now and then. So, Lauren, we're clearly 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.440 right now in a in a in a period where 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.800 demand a well outstrips supply, but presumably that's going to 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.280 change over the next several weeks going into May. Then 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.160 the challenge probably becomes, as we've heard from many folks 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.520 like yourself, educating those folks that are reluctant to get 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.400 the shot. What can you tell us now about your 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.520 experiences there? Yeah, I mean, simply having the vaccine, enough 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.840 vaccine available for everyone in America doesn't mean that everyone 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.000 in America is going to, you know, wake up on 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.960 May second with vaccine in their arms. But it's a 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.560 lot there's a lot of really strong trust rebuilding that 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.680 has to happen. I mean, UM, during the last administration, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.560 we lost we lost a lot of our trusted communicators, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.400 especially around health and public health. And we're building that 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.840 trust back up. And and there's many communities across the 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.560 country and even across the Glow that that trust wasn't 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.920 really there to begin with. UM. And so we have 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.640 a lot of work to do to make sure that communities, 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.400 vulnerable communities UM believe in the system that created and 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.680 is administering these vaccines, and and that that is work, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.960 that's real work that has to happen and should already 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.160 be happening in a lot of places. How do we 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.040 go about that? I talked to Richard Edelman this morning, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.720 who said, one good idea could be to get corporate 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.280 bosses to tell their employees because you know, it's it's 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.320 closer to home, You're you're likely to trust somebody right there, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.600 especially UM in a lot of cases, someone for whom 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.280 you were Do you think there are other strategies that 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.120 that could work. Well, Yeah, I think, UM the key 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.400 is to be UM, to be very careful that you're 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.080 not moving from building trust to being coercive. Right. And 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.160 so the boss the employee employer relationship can be really 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.959 challenging to navigate simply because UM it can go around 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.000 like work workplace requirements like is this a requirement or 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.080 is this the trusted relationship I have with my boss, 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:32.080 he's telling me that he or she believes in the vaccine. UM. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.119 A place that a lot of this work can be 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.040 done is in the local church groups, local faith based organization, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.080 local community leaders, people who UM who have the trust 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.560 of their community and can be messengers that this is 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.879 a safe and effective vaccine and we need this for 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.679 each other, for ourselves, but also for each other to 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.720 keep our most vulnerable population safe. UM. Community work is 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.639 growing in this space, and I think there's people UM 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.200 way smarter about it than me, uh, doing a lot 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.760 of work here to make sure that the message is 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.680 not just get the vaccine, but here's why you can 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.119 trust the vaccine, here's why the vaccine is not just 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.399 safe but also effective. UM. And it's really important to 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.680 reopening the country. So Lauren, you know the vaccines are 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.520 coming fast and furious. That's the good news that one 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.120 of the concerns that really still lingers out there are 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.960 some of these variants that are out there. What's the latest. Yeah, 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.040 there's several variants that I think people are keeping an 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.680 eye on. I do think that part of what's happening 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.920 is that this is the first time we've just been 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.640 having variant discussions out in the public, you know, really, um, 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.520 all across the board, and I think there there's a lot. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.520 The way we talk about variants is really important because 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.560 some are variants of concerns. Some are variants to watch 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.480 because they may change the dynamics of the outbreak or 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.600 the pandemic, and some are are simply natural things that 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.160 happened to a virus as it moves through a population 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.520 that actually doesn't change the dynamic of the outbreak of 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.960 the pandemic. And so UM, we're watching two or three 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.159 right now that are I think important and may have 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.560 an impact on vaccines and therapeutics. UM. But the companies 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.080 are adjusting, which is good because UM, along with this 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.760 increased you know, sort of observing as a variant and 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.439 the science around it means that we are seeing them faster, 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:22.359 which is also really good. What about the kids, Lauren, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.560 I mean, the boomers are pretty much covered now. Um. 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.840 Generation golf is coming along quickly, and then your millennial 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.280 cohort is going to get shots. Um. But still we 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.400 don't really know a lot about kids under sixteen, right, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.960 what's gen Z gonna do? Yeah, there's actually work being 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.280 done on the vaccine side to under like bridging studies 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.199 to understand how the vaccines do in pediatric populations in 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.760 the kids. Um, And I think it is a big 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:53.840 push to get this work done so that we can 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.920 take that one step closer to reopening schools safely. So UM, 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.359 I agree with you. I think that there's still a 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.639 lot of work and knowledge building that has to happen 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.199 in that population. But I also think that it is 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.879 being done. Um. You know, luckily the the infections are lower, 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.520 which is great for kids, but also not it makes 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.840 it a little harder to do the studies. So UM, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.240 we have to just sort of keep enrolling as many 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.600 kids into those studies as we can safely and effectively UM, 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.960 and hope that on the other end, we have products 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.879 that are safe for them and get them back into schools. Faster. Lauren, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.560 thank you so much again for joining us and sharing 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.560 your wisdom with us as we make our way through 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.800 this pandemic and now through the better times of these vaccinations. 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.760 Laurence Sour, Associate Professor of Emergency Medicine that Johns Hopkins 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.480 School of Medicine. I should know that the Bloomberg School 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.280 of Public Health at Johns Hopkins is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:52.400 founder Bloomberg LP, Bloomberg Philanthropies, and this radio station. Mark 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.560 Metric is the CEO of Sacks and Adam Burger Managing 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.840 director of Insight Partners. The two are working together on 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.960 the spinoff of what I believe to be one of 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.520 the most iconic department stores in the United States of America. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.240 Sacks Fifth Avenue is a luxury business that everyone sort 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.280 of grows up knowing. It's kind of the pinnacle um 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:19.080 of of luxury shopping as a destination in New York City. 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.240 Tourists go there all the time. Um, Mark, now you 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.520 want to bring it online. Uh, now you have brought 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.440 it online and you want to make it its own business? 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.800 Why I separate it? Well, first, thanks for having me. Uh, 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.840 you know we've been online actually for almost twenty years. 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.800 So I think it's why partner up with somebody like 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.159 Insight and go to rapidly grow it. And that's because 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.400 you know, the luxury online market is about to explode. 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.439 I mean, it's going to triple in the next few years. 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.760 And I am a believer that twenty years ago when 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.040 we all went online the first time, we didn't invest 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.080 the right way. You know, we had our scores, we 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:57.440 had things we had to worry about, We had to 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.560 be very you know, we had to make decisions a lot, uh, 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.160 you know, about about where to invest. And I think 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.199 this time, this iteration of growth, um, we're gonna be 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.200 there and we're gonna you know, we're gonna be able 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:15.840