Speaker 1: We don't want to be walking around, you know, getting
Speaker 1: pissed at every driver on the road. That's a really
Speaker 1: unpleasant way to live. So the antidote to that is
Speaker 1: like learning how to really fully feel and release the
Speaker 1: depth of those emotions. Welcome to the one you feed
Speaker 1: Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the
Speaker 1: thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or
Speaker 1: you are what you think ring true, and yet for
Speaker 1: many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direct, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this
Speaker 1: episode is Taylor Jacobson, the CEO and founder of focus Mate,
Speaker 1: a virtual coworking community with a mission to help everyone
Speaker 1: do their best work. Thousands of people in a hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety three countries worldwide sit side by side via
Speaker 1: video to keep each other company, cheer each other on,
Speaker 1: and hold one another accountable. Tyler is a passionate voice
Speaker 1: on creating soulful work and workplaces and has been featured
Speaker 1: in The New Yorker, CNN, The Guardian, NPR, Fast Company, Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: Business Week, and I'll just add to that the One
Speaker 1: You Feed Podcast. Hi Taylor, Welcome to the show. Great
Speaker 1: to be here. It's a pleasure to have you on.
Speaker 1: We're going to to be talking about a variety of
Speaker 1: things today. We'll be talking about your company that you've
Speaker 1: built called Focus Mate. We're gonna be talking about spirituality,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about focusing routines, all kinds of
Speaker 1: different stuff. But before we get into all that, let's
Speaker 1: start like we always do with the parable. There's a
Speaker 1: grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life,
Speaker 1: there are two wolves inside of us that are always
Speaker 1: at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things
Speaker 1: like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is
Speaker 1: a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred
Speaker 1: and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about it
Speaker 1: for a second. And looks up, but it's grandparents says, well,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandparents says the one you feed.
Speaker 1: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 1: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 1: the work that you do. Well. I just got chills
Speaker 1: in my body listening to tell that, even though I
Speaker 1: know it obviously thought about it. What it means to me,
Speaker 1: you know, is like good and evil are not these abstractions.
Speaker 1: They are our experience of ourselves in every moment. And
Speaker 1: I think evil is just the expression of fear. And
Speaker 1: we all have fear, you know, it's it's human nature.
Speaker 1: And then on the other side of fear, you know
Speaker 1: what is there. There's different words for it, but you
Speaker 1: could say that's love or kindness or truth. I'm a
Speaker 1: fan of that is kind of the opposite of fear
Speaker 1: or the opposite of ego. So I think it's just
Speaker 1: it is a moment to moment discernment and effort for
Speaker 1: each of us to feel the kind of um reflexive
Speaker 1: or autonomous nature of our fears and the patterns that
Speaker 1: those have cultivated in us, and to just resist them,
Speaker 1: one tiny little choice at a time, and to find
Speaker 1: that what's on the other side of that, is this
Speaker 1: an intrinsic goodness that wants to be expressed. I love that,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna put a pin in coming back to
Speaker 1: truth because I think it's a big word for you
Speaker 1: and I want to make sure we get to it.
Speaker 1: But let's start by talking about focus Mate, the company
Speaker 1: that you've built. And I don't want to spend a
Speaker 1: ton of time here, but I'd like to know a
Speaker 1: little bit. First, maybe you could describe for people what
Speaker 1: you do and then secondly why you built it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for asking. So yeah, just really tangibly, what is
Speaker 1: focused Mate? Let's start with what problem we solve. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of us are, let say, distracted or have
Speaker 1: a hard time taking action on the things that we
Speaker 1: most want to be an action on, very universal experience.
Speaker 1: So I started focus Mate to help really myself first,
Speaker 1: but to help other people to be an action on
Speaker 1: the things that matter to them. And I can talk
Speaker 1: about how that's evolved, but yeah, simply put, we create
Speaker 1: um the opportunity for you to meet up with one person,
Speaker 1: one partner, or a group of people to keep each
Speaker 1: other company and hold each other accountable while you take
Speaker 1: action on whatever it is that you want to be
Speaker 1: an action on. And so after this, I could set
Speaker 1: up a focus Mate session because I want to write
Speaker 1: a blog post and I could get matched up with
Speaker 1: you and you want to edit a podcast episode, And
Speaker 1: so we share our commitments to what we want to
Speaker 1: work on, and we might write those down actually and
Speaker 1: post them in the chat interface, and then we hang
Speaker 1: out there on video while we work quietly together. And um,
Speaker 1: it's really an experience of not just accountability, but also camaraderie,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'll say structure to like, it really
Speaker 1: helps us to have some kind of definitive start point
Speaker 1: and also endpoint for things. And so it's kind of
Speaker 1: this very light touch in all those ways. And I
Speaker 1: think people are surprised by how much those things can
Speaker 1: impact you. But it's enough to have a very transformational
Speaker 1: and often life changing impact on just your ability to
Speaker 1: do the things you want to do. Yeah. I first
Speaker 1: heard of your organization through a coaching client of mine
Speaker 1: and had used it as a way of kind of,
Speaker 1: like you said, procrastinating known things. He could show up
Speaker 1: book of focus Mate session and log in and you know,
Speaker 1: have somebody there. Now. The first thing that a lot
Speaker 1: of people when they hear that think is like, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna meet a complete stranger that I don't know
Speaker 1: and feel anxious about that. Talk about why and how
Speaker 1: people get past that. Yeah, So that's totally the right question,
Speaker 1: in fact, because so much of the power of focus
Speaker 1: Mate is actually in the experience of feeling safe and
Speaker 1: being with other people. It's a facet of how our
Speaker 1: nervous system works. Actually that we can't really reach optimal
Speaker 1: sense of embodied safety alone or if we're too isolated
Speaker 1: too often, and so one of the reflexive responses that
Speaker 1: our nervous system has to being around somebody that is
Speaker 1: not presenting a danger that feels safe to us is
Speaker 1: it actually helps to calm us down, help us feel grounded,
Speaker 1: and to help us focus. And it has an impact
Speaker 1: on even blood flow to the brain and you know,
Speaker 1: so a direct impact on our ability to focus. So
Speaker 1: all that is to say, feeling safe is really critical,
Speaker 1: and so having those thoughts go through your mind, you know,
Speaker 1: and to be evaluating am I going to feel safe
Speaker 1: with this other person? And even the word stranger I
Speaker 1: think connotes danger. I think that's kind of what we
Speaker 1: mean when we say strangers like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this person is safe, and so focus Mate we just
Speaker 1: put a tremendous emphasis on our culture and on creating safety.
Speaker 1: So the culture of focused Mate is really the opposite
Speaker 1: of kind of hustle culture or grind culture, which might
Speaker 1: seem counterintuitive for a quote unquote productivity company. But I
Speaker 1: believe in my experiences that when we're in that headspace,
Speaker 1: we don't think is clearly and the ways we work,
Speaker 1: even the things we work on are not as true
Speaker 1: of expressions of ourselves, and our work isn't as creative,
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So there is a bit
Speaker 1: of a leap of faith when you try anything new,
Speaker 1: and I would say almost universally, what people find is
Speaker 1: it's like this really magical soft landing of safety and
Speaker 1: warmth and acceptance, and it's a declaration of vulnerability to
Speaker 1: join focus Mate, to say, you know what, I'd rather
Speaker 1: admit that I might be better off getting somebody else's
Speaker 1: help than continue to struggle, because it's more important to
Speaker 1: me to follow through on this thing, to be who
Speaker 1: I really want to be, than it is to try
Speaker 1: to muscle through or or tell myself the story that
Speaker 1: I can do it on my own and and we
Speaker 1: really strongly reaffirm that in every touch point of your
Speaker 1: experience so that when you experience other members of the
Speaker 1: focus make community. It really is a lot of encouragements,
Speaker 1: a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of like, wherever you're at,
Speaker 1: wherever you're starting point is is okay, you know. And
Speaker 1: we're also working on ways to give you preferences over
Speaker 1: who you get to work with as well. So you know,
Speaker 1: one of the examples as gender based matching. You know,
Speaker 1: some people just would feel safer working with somebody of
Speaker 1: their own gender, for example, and if that's you, that's fine.
Speaker 1: And so when someone logs on, it's not like you're
Speaker 1: spending this time chatting with another person. There's a little
Speaker 1: brief introduction and then it's kind of a work right. Yes,
Speaker 1: we say about sixty seconds you're saying hi or being friendly,
Speaker 1: but it's really you know, smile and then asked the
Speaker 1: other person, hey, what are you up to? What are
Speaker 1: you working on this hour? And then you get to
Speaker 1: work within sixty seconds. And then at the end it's similar,
Speaker 1: you know, chime goes off and you're just checking in
Speaker 1: how to go eric, you know, okay, I got distracted
Speaker 1: for a minute or so, but I got back to it,
Speaker 1: and I'm really psyched about my progress. How to go
Speaker 1: for you? And so it's it's very um focused. What
Speaker 1: led you to create this product? It really came out
Speaker 1: of my own huge struggles, you know, I'm gonna say it,
Speaker 1: with being who I knew I could be or being
Speaker 1: who I wanted to be, and my whole life, I've
Speaker 1: always been interested in, let's say, personal development. But about
Speaker 1: ten years ago, I almost got fired from a job
Speaker 1: and I chose to leave that job instead of getting
Speaker 1: fired basically, and it was just very demoralizing, and it
Speaker 1: was really a result of me not I was working
Speaker 1: from home and I just couldn't. I couldn't hack it
Speaker 1: with that kind of isolation, lack of accountability, I just
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. And leaving a job like that was
Speaker 1: very demoralizing and also humiliating for me. And so it
Speaker 1: just kind of cast me into this dark place and
Speaker 1: I got a lot more serious about how do I
Speaker 1: get unstuck? You know, what do I need in order
Speaker 1: to bootstrap myself to a better place of being somebody
Speaker 1: I want to be? And so I just by and
Speaker 1: by got more and more passionate about all the things
Speaker 1: I was learning and sort of realizing I could use
Speaker 1: all this struggle to help other people. And and it
Speaker 1: was years later that I really stumbled on this technique.
Speaker 1: But when I did, it was just so life changing
Speaker 1: for me that it clicked really quickly that there was
Speaker 1: an opportunity to help other people. Yeah, I mean, right
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I see several core
Speaker 1: behavior change principles embedded right in focus mate, Right, like
Speaker 1: know when you're going to do something, Okay, you commit
Speaker 1: to a session that tells me I'm doing it at
Speaker 1: this time, know what I'm going to work on, you know,
Speaker 1: knowing what I'm going to do. I talked about it
Speaker 1: with coaching clients. Is just basically like we want to
Speaker 1: be specific, like what, when, how, where? Any bit of
Speaker 1: ambiguity in those things is terrible for procrastinators, right, they
Speaker 1: can become roadblocks. And so with focus mate, immediately I
Speaker 1: know when I know where I'm gonna be in front
Speaker 1: of my computer, I know I've decided what I'm going
Speaker 1: to do in that period because I'm going to articulate
Speaker 1: it to someone else. Uh. The other big principle there
Speaker 1: is that we just tend to. It's just a facet
Speaker 1: of human nature. Were often more accountable to others. You know,
Speaker 1: knowing that somebody is going to be sitting there without
Speaker 1: a partner if I don't show up, you know, enables
Speaker 1: me to try and take it to the session. Although
Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't be without a partner because you'd rematch them.
Speaker 1: But the point being, I've got an accountability there, and
Speaker 1: I think you guys keep track of accountability also, right,
Speaker 1: And if you make sessions and you don't show up,
Speaker 1: there is some penalty for that over time. Right, Maybe
Speaker 1: penalty is not the word you would use. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we're really like a carrot not a stick kind
Speaker 1: of culture. That is one way to put it. Well, basically,
Speaker 1: just say hey, it looks like something came up. That's okay,
Speaker 1: we're not judging it, but we just if you have
Speaker 1: another session after that, we'll kind of freeze your account
Speaker 1: so that the next person has a partner and sort
Speaker 1: of say hey, just kind of wave your hand and
Speaker 1: say hey, I'm back, I'm okay. Uh, let's reactivate your
Speaker 1: account and you know, and we trust you, And that
Speaker 1: seems to work better than the stick approach. You got it.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. So let's move on from the product
Speaker 1: and let's talk about focus. So you know, the goal
Speaker 1: of focus mate, and the problem you were solving was
Speaker 1: an inability to I would say it would be maybe
Speaker 1: an inability to get started and then actually focus. You
Speaker 1: know that you're sort of solving two things there, but
Speaker 1: get started. Focus mate a clunky name. Talk a little
Speaker 1: bit to me about how you think about a getting
Speaker 1: started on a task, you know, for people who procrastinate.
Speaker 1: Let's start there and then we'll move to focus after that.
Speaker 1: How I think about getting started on a task? Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: if somebody's a procrastinator, obviously focus mate is sort of
Speaker 1: your best answer for you know, how to work through that.
Speaker 1: But do you have any other suggestions or ideas? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: just taking a step back, Like I think that procrastination
Speaker 1: is an expression of feeling unsafe, and I'll explain that
Speaker 1: a little bit more. But like we are so perpetually
Speaker 1: stressed out and from a nervous system standpoint in fight
Speaker 1: or flight, you know, when we're distracting ourselves. It's kind
Speaker 1: of this expression of that constant low level agitation or
Speaker 1: anxiety or whatever you want to call it. But stress,
Speaker 1: And we might think of fight flight as like I
Speaker 1: stepped into traffic and I like got a huge rush
Speaker 1: of adrenaline, But actually a more common experience of fight
Speaker 1: flight is much more subtle. It's just stress basically, or
Speaker 1: it's rumination or you know, like waking up early with
Speaker 1: thoughts about work or something, whatever it is. And when
Speaker 1: our body is in that state, we can't focus because
Speaker 1: our body is basically preparing to either fight or run.
Speaker 1: It's optimizing for one of those functions. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of agitation, there's a lot of energy to act,
Speaker 1: but it's not focus, it's not calm, right, So we're
Speaker 1: really bad at slowing down and being like, Okay, what
Speaker 1: do I really want to do with my time, and
Speaker 1: then doing that thing because the blood flow is not
Speaker 1: even in your brain, you know, it's just it's just
Speaker 1: moving you, and it's kind of grabbing for things that
Speaker 1: can help to really numb that unwanted feeling. But what
Speaker 1: we really need is to slow down and feel grounded,
Speaker 1: and from that embodied safe place, what naturally is going
Speaker 1: to arise is a more authentic desire than Netflix or
Speaker 1: snacking or whatever myriad things we do. From from a
Speaker 1: procrastinating place, So that sort of indirectly speaks to what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. But with getting started, I do think
Speaker 1: that addressing that experience in our bodies can be really important.
Speaker 1: So when why is a morning routine such a popular thing.
Speaker 1: It's because when we say morning routine, we're not doing
Speaker 1: things that stressed us out. We're basically mourning. Routine is
Speaker 1: doing things that ground us, and even things like just
Speaker 1: brushing our teeth, are drinking a glass of water. It's
Speaker 1: having a slowed down experience of ourselves that that actually
Speaker 1: signals to our body, I'm safe. And so from that
Speaker 1: place we're able more easily to get started and something
Speaker 1: like focus Mate. You might still feel a little bit
Speaker 1: of that agitated energy when you show up, but the commitment,
Speaker 1: as you said, like the accountability to show up. You've
Speaker 1: got a scheduled time that might be enough to get
Speaker 1: you over the hump as well. Right, and then once
Speaker 1: you're butts in the chair, you're already slowing down. Now
Speaker 1: there's a person there, they're helping you feel grounded to
Speaker 1: reflecting on what you want to do. So it's sort
Speaker 1: of easing you into a into a safer space. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be focused mate, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's really how do we ground ourselves, how do we
Speaker 1: slow down, how do we set the intention? And so
Speaker 1: it's starting to feel slower and safer in our bodies,
Speaker 1: and and then how do we just get ourselves over
Speaker 1: the starting line to start that thing as well? And
Speaker 1: so you've got a line that I heard recently, it
Speaker 1: was design a life that demands what you want to give.
Speaker 1: Say a little bit more about that. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: that's something we say internally on our team at Focus Mate.
Speaker 1: And the way that we think about ourselves as a
Speaker 1: company and our mission is it's actually not really about
Speaker 1: focus it's about being who you really want to be,
Speaker 1: or being who you truly are, and that starts with
Speaker 1: our team. You know, we think about serving ourselves on
Speaker 1: our team before we think about serving our customers. And
Speaker 1: like how we interact with each other on our team
Speaker 1: is it's kind of the energy that we're putting out
Speaker 1: to our community. And so we have this mantra internally
Speaker 1: of that's what we're helping each other do, is to
Speaker 1: design a life that demands what you want to give.
Speaker 1: That's kind of one way of thinking about this and
Speaker 1: so we don't have a lot of hard and fast
Speaker 1: rules about how we work. That focus mate. The starting point,
Speaker 1: you know, even in interviewing somebody is really let's let's
Speaker 1: really learn about you and what works for you, and
Speaker 1: we'll share about us as well and see if there's
Speaker 1: some real alignment there and see if this is a
Speaker 1: good environment to support you in designing the life that
Speaker 1: you want to live. And are the things that we need,
Speaker 1: the roles, the skills that we need in our team,
Speaker 1: Are those things that you really want to give And
Speaker 1: it could be tactical stuff too, you know, the times
Speaker 1: of day that you want to be working. Do you
Speaker 1: want to be on a lot of calls or is
Speaker 1: that really not good for your energy and you'd like
Speaker 1: to you know, just kind of be a synchronous and whatever.
Speaker 1: So that's where it comes from, you know. And actually
Speaker 1: I'll just share briefly like I'm in a very active
Speaker 1: like reinvention of my own role at the company, and
Speaker 1: it's really been enabled by the strength of that conviction
Speaker 1: and commitment by the entire team. Where I was very scared,
Speaker 1: honestly to relinquish some of the responsibilities that I had,
Speaker 1: but I could also feel that I just no longer
Speaker 1: had the energy to keep like muscling through some of
Speaker 1: the things that I had been doing since we started
Speaker 1: the company, and the team and especially our head of operations,
Speaker 1: who has really taken a lot of this stuff off
Speaker 1: my plate, was just really adamant, like, we got you,
Speaker 1: we got this, let's reinvent this. Let's design a life
Speaker 1: that demands what you want to give, and we all
Speaker 1: have faith that when we do that, and when I
Speaker 1: do that, it will serve the company as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about that line is two things.
Speaker 1: One is my experience is no matter what you design
Speaker 1: to get a life you demand, there are still things
Speaker 1: that you don't really want to do. You know, there's
Speaker 1: just some measure of that. You know that, at least
Speaker 1: the stage that our organization is right, there's just things
Speaker 1: I do that need to be done, and I don't
Speaker 1: love doing them. I outsource as much as that as possible,
Speaker 1: but as you know, you know, early on in the
Speaker 1: company's state, you don't have money to do all that.
Speaker 1: But I think the other thing that's really interesting about
Speaker 1: that is that it changes, you know, we design a
Speaker 1: life that demands what we want to give, and then
Speaker 1: what we want to give. At least my experience is
Speaker 1: it can morph over time, and that maybe was your
Speaker 1: experience with focus Mate was early on you were giving
Speaker 1: what you wanted to give and then it transformed and
Speaker 1: you had to, as you say, kind of be willing
Speaker 1: to try and reinvent. And that word reinvent always sounds lovely,
Speaker 1: but it's rarely a lovely process. Yeah, that's just important observation,
Speaker 1: like or transformation. Like God, I would never wish transformation
Speaker 1: on my worst enemy. It's like pain, you know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean often the way we come to it is
Speaker 1: like burnout or something like this, where you get in
Speaker 1: a groove and hopefully it starts out being you know,
Speaker 1: you're doing something that's authentic, and then you just keep
Speaker 1: going and you make to start feeling some dissonance and
Speaker 1: you know, the like the thing starts to rattle a
Speaker 1: little bit, and maybe you start to get migrains or
Speaker 1: like chronic pain or like other signals that your body
Speaker 1: is like, no, this isn't working for me anymore, for
Speaker 1: us anymore. Yeah, unfortunately, because of Categorically, I guess we'll
Speaker 1: say fear, like, oh my god, if I stopped doing
Speaker 1: this thing, it's not going to get done. The company
Speaker 1: is going to fall apart. You know. For me, it
Speaker 1: was real like if I tell my colleagues what's going
Speaker 1: on for me and that I need rest, everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: stop working If I need rest, our culture is suddenly
Speaker 1: be going to become lazy. And I'll come back to
Speaker 1: that in a sect. We have all these stories that
Speaker 1: keep us from just noticing, like the moment that thing changes,
Speaker 1: it's like, whoa, I feel some strong resistance to doing this,
Speaker 1: and like can I make a shift? But instead we
Speaker 1: just kind of plowed through, and then we have burnout
Speaker 1: or other you know, injuries or other things that really
Speaker 1: force us to a halt and and kind of force
Speaker 1: the reinvention on us. But the stories are rarely true,
Speaker 1: you know. So like in this case, the whole team
Speaker 1: was like really rallied around. They were like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: like you've worked so hard and let us take these
Speaker 1: things off your plate and find out, you know, what's
Speaker 1: on the other side of this reinvention. For you, you're
Speaker 1: in the startup world, which means you are trying to
Speaker 1: please a variety of people, right, I guess that's that's
Speaker 1: not just a startup world right. Companies in general are
Speaker 1: trying to please their investors slash shareholders, they're trying to
Speaker 1: please their customer, They're trying to please their internal team.
Speaker 1: You know, it sounds like your internal team was behind
Speaker 1: you sort of saying all right, I'm going to slow
Speaker 1: down and get some rest. Did you find any pushback
Speaker 1: from any of your other constituents or stakeholders around that,
Speaker 1: because startup culture is very much grind, hustle, macho like.
Speaker 1: You know, I can work more hours than you can work.
Speaker 1: Did you find any or have any issues there? And
Speaker 1: you're welcome to say if your investor situations are once
Speaker 1: you don't want to talk about, I get it, so
Speaker 1: you're welcome to say past no. You know, for me
Speaker 1: being able and willing to have one truth for all
Speaker 1: audiences is it's really like I think the ultimate aspiration
Speaker 1: in some ways, I think for like a human being
Speaker 1: is to feel that peace that comes with being true
Speaker 1: in always with all people, there's nothing to hide, So
Speaker 1: that's an aspiration. But um, I haven't experienced any of
Speaker 1: that pushback or tension, and I think it's because it's
Speaker 1: always been a core aspect of our ethos and even
Speaker 1: Our mission is really about paradigm shift, like creating a
Speaker 1: company in a different way and doing it at scale
Speaker 1: to really model that it's possible that you that hustle
Speaker 1: and grind isn't necessary, and to show to find out
Speaker 1: experiment with what happens when you do things this other way.
Speaker 1: And you know, I imagine that scares our investors sometimes,
Speaker 1: just like it scares me sometimes. But it's just like,
Speaker 1: what are we here for? What is my life for?
Speaker 1: It's not to make a lot of money, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: the persons, I really hope not for me. It's like
Speaker 1: the point is to you know, find out as much
Speaker 1: as you can experience as much as you can of
Speaker 1: your your soul, your true nature, to really, you know,
Speaker 1: experience that deeply. And so, yeah, how can our work
Speaker 1: and how can this company specifically for me, be kind
Speaker 1: of the vessel to further that experiment. And so it's
Speaker 1: very authentic for me to say to an investor, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we want to make this as big as possible, and
Speaker 1: we really believe we can reach you know, tens hundred
Speaker 1: million people or more, and so this can be a
Speaker 1: great place to put some money to work, but we're
Speaker 1: going to do it our way, you know, And I
Speaker 1: also think we're at a moment in time where that's
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of gessault is is shifting the
Speaker 1: collective consciousness. You know, we're all like the great resignation
Speaker 1: happening now, We're all feeling that inner pull for something different.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's also attractive to our customers
Speaker 1: and to our community. And you know, when we have
Speaker 1: an outage or something like this. You know, we had
Speaker 1: a seven hour outage a few months back, and we
Speaker 1: were very vulnerable about it and very apologetic about it.
Speaker 1: We did everything we could to provide alternate resources to
Speaker 1: people who needed them. But people are also very understanding
Speaker 1: and we're kind of just like, you know, you got this.
Speaker 1: It's okay, because we're so actively creating that narrative, you know,
Speaker 1: in all facets of what we do. Let's go back
Speaker 1: to focus for a second, and let's go back to
Speaker 1: you said somewhere our ability to focus as a function
Speaker 1: of our nervous system state period, and you you hit
Speaker 1: that a little bit. I'd like to dive in a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper there, and I'm gonna start by saying,
Speaker 1: I sometimes feel like we have hit a point where
Speaker 1: we need a different way of describing nervous system function
Speaker 1: then fight flight freeze. I heard recently flop, which crack
Speaker 1: cracks me up. I sometimes feel like those terms point
Speaker 1: towards and you said it, it it doesn't have to be extreme,
Speaker 1: but they point towards an extreme, you know, they point
Speaker 1: towards a very heightened type of reaction, Whereas I think
Speaker 1: what's happening with a lot of us is what's happening
Speaker 1: nervous system wise is mild but chronic. I guess, first
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that, Oh, yeah, it's pretty interesting to
Speaker 1: unpack a little bit. Actually, I'm thinking about it as
Speaker 1: you say it, Like I do think there's absolutely a
Speaker 1: need for a lexicon that resonates with people that like
Speaker 1: feels relevant to my life right because what I would
Speaker 1: love to see happen is for what we're talking about
Speaker 1: here and what we'll talk about more in a second,
Speaker 1: to become common knowledge, you know, for parents and teachers
Speaker 1: and just one workers, like to understand how your body
Speaker 1: works and how your nervous system works and what's really happening.
Speaker 1: And this extent is far beyond focus. I mean, the
Speaker 1: implications for relationships are profound. So yeah, fight flight, it's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not about to have a fist
Speaker 1: fight with my colleague, and so you might just reject
Speaker 1: this is somehow irrelevant. On the other hand, I believe
Speaker 1: that part of why we are so stressed is that
Speaker 1: we repress the extent of the experience that we're having
Speaker 1: as one of fight or flee, and so we're trying
Speaker 1: to here's the fun example. If you're experiencing fight flight,
Speaker 1: meditation might help you because you're slowing down your breath,
Speaker 1: You're sending signals to your body basically that I'm safe, right,
Speaker 1: But you might actually have enough pent up fight flight
Speaker 1: energy that you really need to get it out in
Speaker 1: a more aggressive way. And I'm a little bit reticent
Speaker 1: even use this language, but it's the truth is that
Speaker 1: when we're angry, it's a kind of murderous experience. You know.
Speaker 1: The fight impulse is violent, and it's so taboo in
Speaker 1: our culture to name that, let alone to allow ourselves
Speaker 1: to fully experience it. And I don't mean acted out
Speaker 1: of course at all, but to just experience the level
Speaker 1: of agitation, Like the directionality of that fight flight energy
Speaker 1: in us is immense, and I think why society we
Speaker 1: have so much angst is that we're collectively so repressed
Speaker 1: and we don't have the tools and also don't have
Speaker 1: the kind of shared understanding of what it actually means
Speaker 1: to release that fight flight energy in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: Like some thing that I will often do is I'll
Speaker 1: do like primal screaming, you know, And sometimes I'll do
Speaker 1: it in a pillow if I'm in a place where
Speaker 1: that's necessary. But there's also a few things that are
Speaker 1: more liberating for me than like going up on a
Speaker 1: hilltop and just like you know, screaming and in a
Speaker 1: very literal way, that's vibrating your body and it's unblocking
Speaker 1: this stuck energy that's in your body. You know. If
Speaker 1: you're not releasing that, you're literally just holding tension in
Speaker 1: your body, you know. And that's what we're walking around
Speaker 1: with when we feel stressed, when we feel anxiety, when
Speaker 1: we are procrastinating, whatever it might be. So I'm with
Speaker 1: you in terms of how do we make this common
Speaker 1: knowledge through through more accessible lexicon. And on the other hand,
Speaker 1: part of that is we can't nice it up and
Speaker 1: say we're just gonna do all these sweet, gentle practices.
Speaker 1: There's actually a need to fully embrace and and feel
Speaker 1: our anger so that we're not projecting it in all
Speaker 1: these sideways ways. And you know, you can imagine like
Speaker 1: the term snide remarkus coming up, or s arcasm or
Speaker 1: some of these really low key things that most of
Speaker 1: us are doing constantly. It's just like these little pressure
Speaker 1: valve releases of anger. But it's not actually a release.
Speaker 1: It's a manifestation of this pent up, unexpressed, unfelt fight
Speaker 1: flight energy. And we don't want to be walking around,
Speaker 1: you know, getting pissed at every driver on the road
Speaker 1: and all these that's a really unpleasant way to live.
Speaker 1: So you know, the antidote to that is like learning
Speaker 1: how to really fully feel and release the depth of
Speaker 1: those emotions. Yeah, as you're talking about that, it brings
Speaker 1: me right to I feel like one of the fundamental
Speaker 1: questions we wrestle with here at the one you feed,
Speaker 1: because it's a fundamental question I wrestle with, which is
Speaker 1: what do we do with negative emotion? What do we
Speaker 1: do with it? Do we experience it, do we feel it?
Speaker 1: Do we just really go into it and let it be?
Speaker 1: Do we work to try and soothe it? Do we
Speaker 1: try and put it in perspective. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: The other day, I had a busy day, lots of calls, calls, calls, calls,
Speaker 1: and I've been having trouble with a prescription for like
Speaker 1: four days. The poor pharmacy is overworked. They don't have
Speaker 1: enough people. It's just been very difficult. So I had
Speaker 1: like fifteen to twenty minutes, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: it's a three minute drive. I'm gonna go to the pharmacy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get there, I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave right And so I'm sitting there and I'm waiting
Speaker 1: in line, and it was supposed to be ready like
Speaker 1: four hours earlier. I finally wait in this whole line
Speaker 1: now the whole time, you know, talk about the sort
Speaker 1: of fight or flight. I'm like, oh god, I've got
Speaker 1: a coaching call. I got a client in seven minutes,
Speaker 1: you know, And and I'm not freaking out, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling that energy bill did I get up there
Speaker 1: and the guy's like, yeah, we'll get that ready for
Speaker 1: you right now. They had not gotten it ready, even
Speaker 1: though I talked to somebody a few hours earlier. Then
Speaker 1: I just had to go, Well, I can't stay. I
Speaker 1: gotta go, and I wasn't going to be able to
Speaker 1: get back there for another day because of my schedule. Anyway,
Speaker 1: long story short, I was leaving and I was feeling
Speaker 1: very angry, you know, anger out of proportion to the situation. Right.
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of ways to go there, Right.
Speaker 1: One way to go is to go and get in
Speaker 1: my car and bang on the steering wheel and scream
Speaker 1: for a while and let out a you know, a
Speaker 1: bunch of curse words and just vomit that energy out.
Speaker 1: That's one approach. Another approach, and it's the one that
Speaker 1: I chose to go with this time. But I don't
Speaker 1: always was. I I really went, hang on a second, like,
Speaker 1: get this in perspective, Like you are an incredibly like privileged,
Speaker 1: lucky person, and if this is the worst thing that's
Speaker 1: happening in your life, you need to take it down
Speaker 1: a notch and recognize, like, hey, there's nothing to be
Speaker 1: that upset about here. But that points to two directions,
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're compatible. Sometimes there's a way to do
Speaker 1: both those things, actually, but I think it does point
Speaker 1: to particularly as we look at spiritual literature, right, and
Speaker 1: we look at spiritual traditions, both those ways and psychological traditions.
Speaker 1: Both of the as ways are stressed at different times
Speaker 1: by different people. And I'm just kind of curious how
Speaker 1: you think about that. And that was a long set
Speaker 1: up for that question, but hopefully it's helpful. Such an
Speaker 1: awesome illustration. Yeah, and I love the contrast between those
Speaker 1: two approaches. So yeah, I'm really glad you shared that. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, it's an ongoing experiment for me, and I've
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot, as you've alluded to, from like
Speaker 1: different viewpoints in different traditions. So, like I read a
Speaker 1: book by David Hawkins called Letting Go that is profound,
Speaker 1: and you know, his view is basically, all emotion is projection.
Speaker 1: And so the experience that you had in the pharmacy
Speaker 1: was sort of the world helping to needle some anger
Speaker 1: that is repressed within you, right, And you talked about
Speaker 1: the disproportionate magnitude of your anger. So you know, perhaps
Speaker 1: David Hawkins would say that once you've released all the
Speaker 1: old repressed anger, you might not even feel any anger
Speaker 1: in that situation. It would just be kind of a
Speaker 1: ho hum, this is what is at other times there
Speaker 1: might be like a very small feeling in your body
Speaker 1: that you could label like the parts of your body
Speaker 1: that might heat up or feel tense or something that's anger,
Speaker 1: but it's just so momentary that it kind of just
Speaker 1: guides you back to here's my boundary, like something that
Speaker 1: didn't work for me, you know. And then like Peter Levine,
Speaker 1: whose body of work is somatic experiencing, right, he talks
Speaker 1: about how you see dogs that uh, like a dog
Speaker 1: will just come in from taking a walk, it will
Speaker 1: come indoors and it'll just shake right. It's like we
Speaker 1: just went on this excursion, there was different stimuli happening now,
Speaker 1: and back in my nest, I feel safe. Whatever stress,
Speaker 1: whatever tension or emotion that dog is holding its body,
Speaker 1: it just immediately releases. And that's the thing that all
Speaker 1: animals do, except humans, as they immediately release that fight
Speaker 1: flight energy or that stress, that tension. It's all emotional.
Speaker 1: I think all of these things are synonymous in some ways.
Speaker 1: So the trick thing for humans is that we have
Speaker 1: all this stored up tension. And so the technique that
Speaker 1: you chose in that moment, I would call that kind
Speaker 1: of a conscious dispersion of the anger, right, like, well,
Speaker 1: I just don't need to be angry right now. But
Speaker 1: you also experienced the disproportionate, you know, experience of anger,
Speaker 1: which points to okay, I have repressed anger, and I
Speaker 1: would say this is universal, right, So I think the
Speaker 1: answer is really both. It's we don't have to We
Speaker 1: can choose to do the work to unearth these stuck, repressed,
Speaker 1: suppressed things in our body, and if we do that,
Speaker 1: then that situation will make you gradually less angry in
Speaker 1: the future. Oftentimes I say to people, if you've got
Speaker 1: to choose between taking a perspective and feeling an emotion,
Speaker 1: to feel the emotion first, let it happen, let it be,
Speaker 1: allow it to be there, then move into taking a
Speaker 1: perspective on it right, then move into going, Okay, you
Speaker 1: know what, maybe it really isn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: You know, like, if you're unsure, that order of operations
Speaker 1: is probably best because then you're not repressing or bypassing.
Speaker 1: To the same extent. What I think is interesting with
Speaker 1: what David Hawkins is saying, and I've seen that theory
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways in a lot of different places.
Speaker 1: What I sometimes wonder is a couple of things, is
Speaker 1: it bottomless? So I went through this at one point
Speaker 1: in my life when I was I don't know, thirty
Speaker 1: thirty years old, thirty two years old, my marriage split
Speaker 1: up and I was separated from my son. And I
Speaker 1: certainly had a role in that happening, but my partner
Speaker 1: had left me for someone else, and I was really angry.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because that was a time that I expressed
Speaker 1: anger a lot. I took up boxing. I was so
Speaker 1: mad at her. I took up boxing and it was great,
Speaker 1: and I wrote hateful letters that I destroyed and I
Speaker 1: allowed the anger to flow through. So I've had some
Speaker 1: experience with like and now, you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: years later, I went from wanting her to you know,
Speaker 1: burn and hell to being like, oh yeah, sure, I'll
Speaker 1: come over for Thanksgiving. That sounds nice, you know, So
Speaker 1: I do. I do agree with that. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, I started working with a therapist and we
Speaker 1: started doing inner child work. Right that phrase then and
Speaker 1: now still makes us a certain part of me inside cringe.
Speaker 1: But the idea was, hey, look the things that happened
Speaker 1: to you as a child impact who you are today,
Speaker 1: your emotional reactions today. The way to work through that,
Speaker 1: is to go back if you can, and express the
Speaker 1: emotions that come up from that. And so I spent
Speaker 1: some time doing that, and then I hit a point
Speaker 1: where I felt like maybe I had more or less
Speaker 1: sort of gotten all there was to get out of that.
Speaker 1: But there seemed to be from her perspect did like
Speaker 1: you just kept going, And in my perspective, I was like,
Speaker 1: it feels like I've done enough of that that there's
Speaker 1: not enough benefit. As I'm talking this through, I'm realizing
Speaker 1: that what was happening was I started to realize I
Speaker 1: didn't have the emotions anymore, so I had, in essence
Speaker 1: sort of work through them. All Right, that was a
Speaker 1: long way of answering my own question. Well, I do
Speaker 1: think you that, thanks so much for sharing that, and
Speaker 1: like like my heart goes out to you. But also
Speaker 1: just like pulling the thread through to where you are now,
Speaker 1: and like going over Thanksgiving dinner, it's like such a
Speaker 1: amazing illustration of this. Oh yeah, it's just like it
Speaker 1: kind of is bottomless. Like clearly you might be happy now,
Speaker 1: but the pharmacy still pisces you off, you know, So
Speaker 1: it's like there's no righteousness and like am I gonna
Speaker 1: keep working with my anger or am I gonna just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I have really a healthy enough relationship
Speaker 1: to my anger right now that I want to focus elsewhere.
Speaker 1: There's no like right or wrong about that. I think
Speaker 1: it's just understanding, like cool, like at that point in
Speaker 1: your life, it was getting in the way of everything
Speaker 1: that you wanted to do and who you wanted to be,
Speaker 1: and so that that was an urgent priority. And sometimes
Speaker 1: that's what life serves us up is these like unavoidable
Speaker 1: things to heal. Right, and then back to our point
Speaker 1: about transformation and invention, like, yeah, I transformed a lot
Speaker 1: during that period. There's no doubt about that. I don't
Speaker 1: want to do it again exactly, and yeah, and then
Speaker 1: it's just like I think for me, it's have I
Speaker 1: reached a safe landing pad where I want to exert
Speaker 1: my effort elsewhere, or even things like doing yoga, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you're continuing to do I don't know if
Speaker 1: you do yoga. I do some yoga. Um, I'm very
Speaker 1: aware that the yoga I do is tapping into stuck energy,
Speaker 1: stuck emotion in my body. So like I might be
Speaker 1: feeling really good, but at the same time, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I really want to keep feeling better and keep healing
Speaker 1: more and keep getting my deep seated we could say,
Speaker 1: inner child fears whatever healed and out of the way
Speaker 1: so I can experience more of my soul or true
Speaker 1: self or inner freedom or inner peace or whatever these
Speaker 1: things are. So speaking of yoga, right you are living
Speaker 1: on an astroom right now. That was I'm assuming part
Speaker 1: of your getting rest from focus mate, anything you want
Speaker 1: to share about what that is, what you're doing there,
Speaker 1: what that's like for you. You know. I guess the
Speaker 1: first thing I'll say is that it wasn't just getting rest,
Speaker 1: It was really going through in my case also a
Speaker 1: breakup last year that just brought up a lot for me,
Speaker 1: you know, And really, I'll say the trauma that came
Speaker 1: up through that experience forced itself to be handled. You know.
Speaker 1: I spent several months kind of muscling through or trying
Speaker 1: to do things the ways I knew how. But at
Speaker 1: some point I just I realized that I wanted to
Speaker 1: fully commit myself to you know, we talked about the
Speaker 1: nervous system that really became my lens, Like, what's the
Speaker 1: optimal environment to do this kind of work? And you know,
Speaker 1: nature is extremely nourishing. Living in community can really nourishing.
Speaker 1: There's yoga classes every day here, there's healthy vegetarian meals
Speaker 1: cooked every day here, there's a shared commitment to personal
Speaker 1: growth here. There's a lot of ancient teachings that are
Speaker 1: really profound that we talk about on a daily basis here.
Speaker 1: So it was really for me, was I want to
Speaker 1: try an experiment in uh, what's the best? And I
Speaker 1: sort of joke it's like focus mate for my whole life,
Speaker 1: um as opposed to just you know, a one hour experience.
Speaker 1: I want to see what this is like, you know,
Speaker 1: And I'll say it's It's been really a lifelong interest
Speaker 1: of mine to live in community and sort of experiment
Speaker 1: with what I feel are more intuitive, healthy ways of
Speaker 1: living that are just really hard to come by in
Speaker 1: modern society. So I guess I just I reached a
Speaker 1: tipping point within myself where I was like, screw it,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna try this, you know,
Speaker 1: for my own sake. But it's also it certainly inspired
Speaker 1: me and provided a lot of learning in terms of,
Speaker 1: you know, stuff I want to take out into the
Speaker 1: world too. And is it the sort of situation in
Speaker 1: which you can also continue to work to some extent,
Speaker 1: or is it one of the spiritual communities that sort
Speaker 1: of asked you to withdraw from all that both? Uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, It's actually been a really challenging and
Speaker 1: fun experiment in that regard, because I've been really playing
Speaker 1: with that edge of yeah, there's a way that they've
Speaker 1: sort of asked me to show up here that adheres
Speaker 1: to their way of doing things, and yet my commitment
Speaker 1: to my own inner truth is higher than that. And
Speaker 1: so I'm really using this experience to try to thread
Speaker 1: that needle where I say, you know what, there's been
Speaker 1: moments where, you know, I skipped sat song, which is
Speaker 1: you know, like we all gather to meditate and chant
Speaker 1: and these things, and I skipped it, and I got
Speaker 1: some pushback, and immediately where my mind goes to is
Speaker 1: I'm going to get kicked out, you know. And then
Speaker 1: I kind of walk it back and I say, well,
Speaker 1: did they say anything about kicking me out? To like,
Speaker 1: am I reacting to reality right now? Or am I
Speaker 1: just creating a fear based story that I can't live
Speaker 1: my truth and have it work here as well? And
Speaker 1: so you know, this is a thing that we all
Speaker 1: do in relationships. It's like we're so scared of abandonment
Speaker 1: or getting hurt, we run away from the dynamic rather
Speaker 1: than just saying, oh let me, let me like try
Speaker 1: to be true to myself, but in a very loving
Speaker 1: and gentle way. And so it's helped that this is
Speaker 1: a short term residence for me with people I've never
Speaker 1: met before where I can say, all right, I'm really
Speaker 1: committed to that experiment. I'm not going to run away
Speaker 1: from this place. I want to be here, but I
Speaker 1: also want to skip thoughts on sometimes I want to
Speaker 1: you know, I have worked stuff that I that I
Speaker 1: want to do, and so how can I be very
Speaker 1: loving in communicating that rather than defiant or angry or
Speaker 1: pushing back against them. And honestly, it's shocked me in
Speaker 1: some ways how well that's gone. Where I I will say,
Speaker 1: you know what, the really loving things to do here
Speaker 1: would be too communicate where I'm coming from and why
Speaker 1: I'm choosing this, not because I'm asking for permission to
Speaker 1: do this, but because I want this relationship to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And then to hear the responses back that's like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: you know, like I never would have expected that, but
Speaker 1: so it's been it's been really eye opening for me
Speaker 1: in terms of this is healthy relating when you're there.
Speaker 1: Is it harder for you to put down work and
Speaker 1: go towards the spiritual or is it harder to put
Speaker 1: down the spiritual and go towards work or is it
Speaker 1: just go back and forth. Well, to me, that's a
Speaker 1: false dichotomy, like because I think we have a lot
Speaker 1: of concepts about what spirituality is that we haven't directly experienced,
Speaker 1: and so I think those are just ideas. But to me,
Speaker 1: the strongest access point that I have to spirituality is
Speaker 1: this thing that I will often call my inner truth.
Speaker 1: And to me, that is spiritual because where does that
Speaker 1: come from? It's not something I analyzed. It's not not rational,
Speaker 1: it's intuitive, but like what is intuition? Where does that
Speaker 1: come from? I don't know. But to me, there's a
Speaker 1: certain like what I would call divinity or kind of
Speaker 1: like inexplicable higher power that's at work in all of us.
Speaker 1: That is that voice, your inner compass, you know, whatever
Speaker 1: it is. And so to me, kind of the ultimate
Speaker 1: spiritual practice is I'm going to trust that inner GPS,
Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to that inner truth right now.
Speaker 1: And you know, in spiritual communities people use the word
Speaker 1: ego a lot, which I think ego is just it's
Speaker 1: the collection of all of our fears and under one
Speaker 1: umbrella called ego. So when we choose our truth, the
Speaker 1: only reason it's hard is because we're scared to do it.
Speaker 1: There's a fear that it's coming up against right So
Speaker 1: for me choosing to skip thoughts song, because what's authentic
Speaker 1: for me as I want to actually go take a
Speaker 1: hike up to the top of this hill and do
Speaker 1: you know whatever, that's the truth that's coming up for
Speaker 1: me right now. And in order to choose that truth,
Speaker 1: I have to face this fear that people are going
Speaker 1: to be pissed that I skipped thoughts on. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get kicked out, I'm gonna get scolded whatever, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna have a home, like all these all these fears
Speaker 1: come up, And so how do you conquer your ego?
Speaker 1: Let's say to me, the answer is you just choose
Speaker 1: your truth. Because in the process of choosing your truth
Speaker 1: over and over again, you're gonna experience fear and maybe
Speaker 1: you'll heal a little bit of it, your appeal, a
Speaker 1: little bit of it back, and you'll see that it's
Speaker 1: actually the thing that I was scared of isn't so
Speaker 1: scary after all. And in the process, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you get closer to ultimate truth. And to me, that
Speaker 1: is spirit, that's God. To me, the words aren't so important. Boy,
Speaker 1: there's a lot in there that we're only going to
Speaker 1: get to a little bit of before we need to
Speaker 1: probably go into post show conversation. I'm trying to pick
Speaker 1: which part of that I want to grab. Let's start
Speaker 1: with this one. You talk about intuition, your inner gps,
Speaker 1: that inner knowing. Do you believe that there's inner characteristics
Speaker 1: that are true in you that are different than me
Speaker 1: at the most basic level. Yeah, there's a notion I've
Speaker 1: heard at times of the idea of the healthy ego,
Speaker 1: which is it's sort of your individuality, your uniqueness, right.
Speaker 1: And so one way that I think about this is
Speaker 1: like all of the experiences that we've had, and especially
Speaker 1: the trauma that we've had, deeply inform the gifts that
Speaker 1: we can give to the world, and when we are
Speaker 1: living from the fear, we are not giving those gifts
Speaker 1: were basically just trying to protect ourselves. That's one of
Speaker 1: our full time job unconsciously. But as we heal those
Speaker 1: things and we tap into those gifts, now we're tapping
Speaker 1: into what I would call, you know, your soul or
Speaker 1: your truth. And I think that true nature is intrinsically loving.
Speaker 1: Like that's just kind of what comes when you're not scared,
Speaker 1: is we just find that we want to love and
Speaker 1: serve and give. And but the way that we do
Speaker 1: that sometimes it's like has the same shape, the same
Speaker 1: outline as our trauma, same outline as our fierce So
Speaker 1: like let's say it's you know, the shape of your handprint.
Speaker 1: It might start out being all fear, and it's an
Speaker 1: expression of fear, but as you heal those things, it's
Speaker 1: like now the light is coming through, but the light
Speaker 1: is coming through in the same shape. Because your unique
Speaker 1: gift is a function of your history with addiction, or
Speaker 1: that traumatic breakup of your marriage, or or these other
Speaker 1: things that have helped you become who you are. I
Speaker 1: think of that the same way as like, you know,
Speaker 1: a fish and a dog are not the same thing.
Speaker 1: They're occupying what Bill Plotkin calls their unique eco niche.
Speaker 1: They don't have the same problems that we have in
Speaker 1: doing that. But um, yeah, it's like when we're really
Speaker 1: being true to ourselves, were occupying our kind of correct
Speaker 1: role within the oneness of all things. It's a nice
Speaker 1: way to say it. And I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: our traumas and our fears maybe one of the major
Speaker 1: shaping forces of that role. But I certainly think everything
Speaker 1: that happens to us shapes us. And I think obviously
Speaker 1: we're clearly shaped by some genetic capability. There is a
Speaker 1: unique creation here that is eric, and it is informed
Speaker 1: by everything that has ever happened to me, good and bad.
Speaker 1: It's informed by the genes that I got, It's informed
Speaker 1: by all those things. And then I do believe this
Speaker 1: is a zen idea emptiness and form form and emptiness right,
Speaker 1: that emptiness is pure potentiality, it's the it's the energy
Speaker 1: underneath everything. But then it pops into form based on
Speaker 1: all sorts of things, you know, echo, niche, all these
Speaker 1: different things. So I think we're kind of talking about
Speaker 1: the same thing, and that there are versions of me
Speaker 1: that are or truer to essence. The more I'm healed, yeah, beautifully,
Speaker 1: But I hadn't heard some of those kind of zen concepts,
Speaker 1: but it really resonates. Yeah, you should look into, you know,
Speaker 1: the ideas of form and emptiness though they'll I think
Speaker 1: they'll really resonate. They resonate very much with what you
Speaker 1: just said before I started talking, which is that idea.
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna wrap up. You and I are
Speaker 1: going to continue in the post show conversation because I
Speaker 1: want to talk about how do you know whether to
Speaker 1: trust your intuition? A former drug addict like me is
Speaker 1: hesitant to trust strong inner feelings because you know, I
Speaker 1: had pretty strong feelings that we're coming from inside me
Speaker 1: that destroyed me, And so I think, you know, how
Speaker 1: do we know what inter voice to listen to, which
Speaker 1: inter voice to trust to think? We're going to pursue
Speaker 1: that in the post show conversation listeners. You can get
Speaker 1: access to that and um add free episodes and all
Speaker 1: kinds of other great things by going to one you
Speaker 1: feed dot net slash Join Taylor. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. It's really been fun. Ah yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Actus is awesome.
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