Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. You're listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: As all of you know, Monday is Martin Luther King
Speaker 3: Junior Day, a federal holiday that celebrates the life and
Speaker 3: legacy of Martin Luther King Junior. Over the next half hour,
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about race relations in America, including
Speaker 3: with the author of How We Heal, a Journey toward truth,
Speaker 3: racial healing, and community transformation from the inside out. It's
Speaker 3: written by the first female and first African American leader
Speaker 3: of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation. That conversation a little
Speaker 3: later on right.
Speaker 4: And just a reminder, of course, Martin Luther King Day
Speaker 4: also happens to fall on January twentieth, which is the
Speaker 4: day that President elect Donald Trump will be inaugurated. This Monday,
Speaker 4: we Tim and I will be doing a special edition
Speaker 4: of Bloomberg Business Week that afternoon looking at the new
Speaker 4: incoming administration and all the policies that may come down.
Speaker 4: So we want to get into that and more with
Speaker 4: our next guest, who has a certain very personal story
Speaker 4: and attachment of course to Martin Luther King Day. We
Speaker 4: were joined by Reverend doctor Bernice King. She's the chief
Speaker 4: executive officer of the Martin Luther King Junior Center for
Speaker 4: Nonviolent Social Change, which is also known as the King Center.
Speaker 4: She is the daughter of Martin Luther King, Junior and
Speaker 4: her mom, Coretta Scott King, founder of the King Center.
Speaker 4: Doctor King, so nice to have you here with us.
Speaker 4: You know, Monday, for many it's a holiday. Well, nice
Speaker 4: to have you here. For many more, it's also a
Speaker 4: reminder of our difficult past around race relations and discrimination.
Speaker 4: What does the day mean to you? Honoring your dad.
Speaker 5: Well, it's an opportunity, obviously for us to not just
Speaker 5: commemorate his life, but to really look further into his teachings.
Speaker 5: He was not just a civil rights leader, he was
Speaker 5: a teacher. He left us a blueprint as to how
Speaker 5: to create a just, humane, equitable and peaceful world. And
Speaker 5: every year, one of the things that I encourage is
Speaker 5: that we study him more because he spoke about things
Speaker 5: that we as a nation and world needed to do
Speaker 5: to fight against what he saw as a triple equals
Speaker 5: of poverty, racism, and militarism as a threat to our humanity.
Speaker 6: And so here we are once again this year, and.
Speaker 5: As we inaugurate a new president, those teachings don't change,
Speaker 5: they stay the same. What we have to do is
Speaker 5: to connect to them and to connect to the spirit
Speaker 5: of that movement so we can continue to move our
Speaker 5: nation and world forward.
Speaker 4: I was going to ask you just to follow up.
Speaker 4: You said, you know your dad leaving us a blueprint.
Speaker 4: How would you think he's doing how we are doing
Speaker 4: today with that blueprint?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, he said to us, and where do
Speaker 6: we go from here?
Speaker 5: A community in nineteen sixty seven the book that published
Speaker 5: then that we must find a way to live together
Speaker 5: as brothers, and he meant humanity, as brothers and sisters,
Speaker 5: or together we would be forced to perish as foods.
Speaker 6: And I think we've not found a way to do that.
Speaker 5: I think he further divided around different ideologies instead of
Speaker 5: trying to spend time learning in spite of our differences,
Speaker 5: how do we live together? How do we create a
Speaker 5: coexistence where we don't co annihilate one another?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 5: How do we create a world where everyone has decent
Speaker 5: and affordable housing and access to healthcare? You know, how
Speaker 5: do we ensure that people who may end up in
Speaker 5: the homeless population. How do we ensure that that is
Speaker 5: short lived and we create a pathway to people to
Speaker 5: reclaim their lives. How do we create a fair distribution
Speaker 5: of wealth in this nation? He talked about having a
Speaker 5: radical redistribution of wealth. He didn't talk about it in
Speaker 5: the sense that we just have to remove wealth from
Speaker 5: someone else, but we have to figure out how do
Speaker 5: we balance our economy so that people can have enough
Speaker 5: to do well. And then, of course he talked about
Speaker 5: how do we respect who we are from the different
Speaker 5: cultures and different backgrounds. We'll never all agree on everything,
Speaker 5: and we'll never all like each other, we'll never all
Speaker 5: think alike, but we certainly can spend time learning how
Speaker 5: to live together. So that takes a lot of listening, curiosity,
Speaker 5: It takes a lot of courage, It takes a lot
Speaker 5: of humility, It takes compassion. These are all the things
Speaker 5: that he taught us through the spirit and the heart
Speaker 5: of nonviolence that he led that movement in.
Speaker 3: Well, it's that last point that I want to talk about,
Speaker 3: doctor King, because we've been talking about over the last
Speaker 3: few months the dismantling of DEI programs at many companies.
Speaker 3: If I just look at the stories that are One
Speaker 3: of our reporters, Jeff Green has written in recent months.
Speaker 3: Here's some headlines. Walmart under fire from investors for cutting
Speaker 3: DEI programs, Meta retreats from diversity and inclusion, appeasing Trump.
Speaker 3: Amazon is halting some of its diversity and inclusion programs.
Speaker 3: McDonald's walks back DEI goals in latest corporate retreat. Other
Speaker 3: companies including Deer and more.
Speaker 4: And we talked about Corporate America, you know, did hire
Speaker 4: more black workers for a while and then it stopped.
Speaker 3: How do you like, how do you in an environment
Speaker 3: such as this where see things seem to not necessarily
Speaker 3: be going in that direction. How do you have optimism?
Speaker 5: Well, always have optimism because there are always people, you know,
Speaker 5: like Target and Costco and others, who who choose to
Speaker 5: follow the pathway that we all know is for the
Speaker 5: best of our nation and our world. Look, if we
Speaker 5: don't have an inclusive economy as a nation, then we're
Speaker 5: not going to survive in the global economy. And so
Speaker 5: I think there's gonna be some hard realities we're going
Speaker 5: to be faced with in a few years.
Speaker 6: If what those.
Speaker 5: Who have sought to remove DEI have done you know
Speaker 5: it's gonna show certain results.
Speaker 6: I think it's up to certain.
Speaker 5: Courageous leaders to combine forces and stand against this.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 5: It really, at the end of the day, is really
Speaker 5: not about the language anyway. You know, It's about who
Speaker 5: we are as a people. Do we have a love
Speaker 5: centered way of leading our cultures? In corporate America? You know,
Speaker 5: in our educational institutions, when we look a lot around
Speaker 5: at our different cultures, do we have everyone that's needed
Speaker 5: in terms of represent at the table. You know, whether
Speaker 5: you call it DEI, you call it representation, or you
Speaker 5: call it a belonging culture or for us, the beloved community.
Speaker 5: How do we create beloved community cultures? Because at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, it's about the outcomes. So if
Speaker 5: they remove the names, they remove what they call DEEI,
Speaker 5: but then they are still committed to getting to certain outcomes,
Speaker 5: then maybe there's no problem. But if removing it also
Speaker 5: means that we're not going to ensure that we have
Speaker 5: cultures that reflect who we are as a nation and
Speaker 5: even as a world, then it just means those of
Speaker 5: us who practice non violence are going to have to
Speaker 5: organize and stratig our chives and come up with plans
Speaker 5: to put pressure where is needed.
Speaker 4: Doctor King, what do you think white Americans still don't
Speaker 4: understand about Black America today and what do you believe
Speaker 4: it will take to achieve true racial equality.
Speaker 5: Well, the first thing is Black America is not trying
Speaker 5: to take anything from anybody.
Speaker 6: I think that's the first thing people need to understand.
Speaker 5: There's this threat, like you know, if Black America were
Speaker 5: in charge, they will remove us and nothing to be
Speaker 5: further from the truth. If you study the history of
Speaker 5: our race, we've always been holistically. It doesn't mean there
Speaker 5: are exceptions in every racial grouping, but if you study
Speaker 5: as a whole, we're very forgiving people. We are very
Speaker 5: inclusive culture. We tend to stand, you know, with what
Speaker 5: is right and what is fair and what is just.
Speaker 5: And I think there's a misnomer that if we are
Speaker 5: in these roles we may do what others do. I
Speaker 5: think there's a misnomer as to who we are that
Speaker 5: you know, we just get jobs or we get opportunities
Speaker 5: just because we're black.
Speaker 6: No, we're very qualified.
Speaker 5: If you spend any time on social media, you see
Speaker 5: the number of young children out of the black community
Speaker 5: who are finishing college and getting PhD degrees when they're
Speaker 5: not even fifteen yet.
Speaker 6: They're not even fourteen yet.
Speaker 5: So we have a very intelligent, a very skilled community.
Speaker 5: And it doesn't take any thing away from anybody else's
Speaker 5: community who has intelligent and skilled individuals. And so we
Speaker 5: the biggest thing, Daddy says, I'm very powerful. He said,
Speaker 5: people hate each other because they don't know each other.
Speaker 6: They don't know each other because they don't communicate with
Speaker 6: each other.
Speaker 5: They don't communicate with each other because they're separated from
Speaker 5: each other. And so as long as we keep division
Speaker 5: and separation, then the myths can continue to be the truth.
Speaker 5: So we have to find a way, as I said,
Speaker 5: to learn to live together and cross some of these
Speaker 5: boundaries and not allow whatever every other commentary may say about,
Speaker 5: you know, any community to rule the day.
Speaker 6: I need to come and connect with you. I need
Speaker 6: to learn more about you. I need to spend time
Speaker 6: with you. I need to experience your culture.
Speaker 5: It doesn't mean I may embrace all of it, but
Speaker 5: I have a greater understanding of it. And I think
Speaker 5: that's what a love centered person, a compassionate person, a
Speaker 5: curious person. Right, we're doing a person more importantly who
Speaker 5: wants to see a better world.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, we think about We've only got about
Speaker 4: a couple minutes left here, but we are thinking about
Speaker 4: Martin Luther King day on Inauguration Day, incoming President Donald Trump,
Speaker 4: and what his administration might bring in terms of policies
Speaker 4: and what it means for Black Americans in equality in
Speaker 4: the United States. You know, we kind of get the
Speaker 4: sense that your dad, you know, tried to engage power
Speaker 4: to influence change. She seemed very pragmatic and yet took
Speaker 4: those risks. Do you think your father would try to
Speaker 4: engage with the right, the conservative right, to get them
Speaker 4: to better understand the implications of their positions or is
Speaker 4: that not even possible? And again, only about a minute
Speaker 4: and a half here.
Speaker 6: Oh, it's always possible. Non violence believes in the impossibility.
Speaker 5: Non violence actually can help overcome what seems to be impossible.
Speaker 6: So through strategy and plan.
Speaker 5: When he went to see Johnson, and Johnson said, look,
Speaker 5: I've done as much as I come the civil rights
Speaker 5: right now, I can't get the votes on voting rights.
Speaker 5: Daddy went back and said, well, we're gonna have to
Speaker 5: get him some power. We're going to have to help
Speaker 5: him figure that out. So in this administration, we got
Speaker 5: to figure out what are the connection points. You know,
Speaker 5: who are the people in the administration we might be
Speaker 5: able to have access to who may understand that can
Speaker 5: then translate the message.
Speaker 6: It's about strategy, and nonviolence helps you with that.
Speaker 4: Do you have faith in the Trump administration helping out?
Speaker 6: I have the Black community.
Speaker 5: I have faith in God, and I believe in the
Speaker 5: power of a collective conscience that is committed to freedom,
Speaker 5: justice and quality.
Speaker 6: And I believe it is possible.
Speaker 5: That's why our theme is, you know, mission Possible, protecting freedom,
Speaker 5: justice and equality. Excuse freedom, justice and democracy through the
Speaker 5: spirit of non violence three sixty five, which is kingy
Speaker 5: and non violence is taught and demonstrated by my father.
Speaker 6: That's what I have faith.
Speaker 4: In, doctor King. Just twenty five seconds left here. What
Speaker 4: do you hope every American kind of thinks about when
Speaker 4: it comes to our country here?
Speaker 5: I want them to remember that as a humanity, we
Speaker 5: have been to these places before. Maybe not literally us,
Speaker 5: but human beings have been in difficult, challenging times. We
Speaker 5: come from those individuals, and we too have the capacity
Speaker 5: to rise to the occasion and meet the challenges and
Speaker 5: move our nation and worw forth.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for finding time for us, our
Speaker 4: thoughts with you, certainly as we prepare for the holiday
Speaker 4: and to mark his memory and his legacy on Monday.
Speaker 4: That is Reverend doctor Bernice King, chief Executive Officer of
Speaker 4: the King Center, joining us from Atlanta on this Wednesday.
Speaker 7: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: As we mentioned earlier, we're spending a good portion of
Speaker 3: the final hour of our show focused on race relations
Speaker 3: in race in America ahead of the Martin Luther King
Speaker 3: Junior Holiday on Monday. We just spoke to Reverend doctor
Speaker 3: Bernice King, the CEO of the Martin Luther King Junior
Speaker 3: Center for Non Violent Social Change, also known as the
Speaker 3: King Center.
Speaker 7: Right and Lea.
Speaker 4: June Montgomery Tabron is the first female and first African
Speaker 4: American leader of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation. It's one
Speaker 4: of the largest philanthropic institutions in the United States. Also
Speaker 4: the author of a new book, How We Heal, a
Speaker 4: Journey toward Truth, racial healing and community transformation from the
Speaker 4: inside out. And we really want to start at the
Speaker 4: beginning of the book. June, welcome, welcome, Nice to have
Speaker 4: you here with Tim and myself. You know, it's so
Speaker 4: wild to be coming off of a conversation with doctor
Speaker 4: Bernice King and then to see how you start your book.
Speaker 4: Take us back the Sunday in late June of nineteen
Speaker 4: sixty three. You were eight months old.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and it's reflecting on the speech that doctor King gave,
Speaker 2: the speech that actually was the preface to his I
Speaker 2: had a dream speech, and I reflect on how important
Speaker 2: that that speech was actually first given in Detroit, where
Speaker 2: I was born, and was the beginning of my own
Speaker 2: healing journey in America, which is the story, very part
Speaker 2: of the story of the book that we have launched.
Speaker 3: So well, a lot happened between then and you becoming
Speaker 3: the ninth President and CEO of the W. K. Kellogg Foundation.
Speaker 3: It is one of the largest philanthropic institutions in the US.
Speaker 3: How do you draw that line though, and you do
Speaker 3: it in the book. How do you draw that line
Speaker 3: from that moment when you were an infant to this
Speaker 3: point in your career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a journey that I've been on, a
Speaker 2: personal healing journey. It's the journey our nation has been on,
Speaker 2: and it's the journey that I have.
Speaker 7: Led at the W. K. Kellogg Foundation. We've seen.
Speaker 2: Results coming out of the civil rights movement and the
Speaker 2: leadership of doctor Martin Luther King, We've continued to grapple
Speaker 2: with the issue of race in America. Our work at
Speaker 2: the W. K. Kellogg Foundation has been about how to
Speaker 2: address racism head on and to begin to dismantle those
Speaker 2: systems that disadvantaged children. Our work is about improving the
Speaker 2: lives of all children in America. And I am one
Speaker 2: of those children. And the story in the book is
Speaker 2: about how my journey encountered racism, but how it strengthened me,
Speaker 2: and how I learned to heal from those encounters, and
Speaker 2: how I then carried that into my work at the W. K.
Speaker 7: Kelloc Foundation, and how we know it is the work
Speaker 7: for the future of this nation.
Speaker 2: If we are going to connect people across our differences.
Speaker 4: Well, Jude, how can we though see more of your stories?
Speaker 4: And I think it's I think it's fair to say,
Speaker 4: you know, the Bloomberg News team talked about how corporate
Speaker 4: America was hiring more black workers coming off of George Floyd,
Speaker 4: coming off of the pandemic, and then it stopped, and
Speaker 4: how do we ensure that the trend continues in terms
Speaker 4: of your own story of where you started and where
Speaker 4: you are today, that even though you face challenges, had
Speaker 4: to deal with obstacles and faced racism, how do we
Speaker 4: first of all get rid of it in the country,
Speaker 4: but help others to be able to face it and
Speaker 4: achieve so much.
Speaker 2: More sure, And we work with Corporate America and a
Speaker 2: work in a body of work that we have called
Speaker 2: Expanding Equity. And what I know from that work is
Speaker 2: that companies are not retreating in this space. They understand
Speaker 2: and the business case of diversity. They know that their
Speaker 2: companies are better off with diverse talent and perspectives. And
Speaker 2: what I've learned working with these companies is that they
Speaker 2: see how they are higher performers as a result of
Speaker 2: their diversity, and they're continuing to make sure that they
Speaker 2: have that It is a business imperative for them. So
Speaker 2: that is the work of our nation is to make
Speaker 2: sure that everyone is engaged in our economy. And the
Speaker 2: numbers show that we conducted a study that indicates we
Speaker 2: could unleash an additional eight trillion dollars in economic growth
Speaker 2: in GDP by twenty fifty if we were just to
Speaker 2: make sure that all of our human capital was properly,
Speaker 2: properly utiliz are you since.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I just want to jump in because
Speaker 3: we only have a couple of minutes left, and I
Speaker 3: want to make sure I get your thoughts on this
Speaker 3: because it's in the news day in, day out. But
Speaker 3: Walmart cut its de I programs, McDonald's walk back DEI,
Speaker 3: you have Meta retreating from DEI. Amazon halting some of
Speaker 3: its DEI programs. These are just headlines from the last
Speaker 3: couple of weeks. Our companies. How do you feel about them?
Speaker 3: How do you think can we still does it set
Speaker 3: us back? Do we still tap into that human capital
Speaker 3: if we're if we're not conscious of this stuff.
Speaker 7: I think it's a headline.
Speaker 2: I think we have to really understand what that means.
Speaker 2: In many cases, what every company knows is that they
Speaker 2: have to compete for talent. They have to continue continue
Speaker 2: to build and grow talent. And you're not going to
Speaker 2: do that if you're not fully accessing our human capital.
Speaker 7: So the naming may change.
Speaker 2: The understanding that this is a business imperative and we
Speaker 2: almost have the best talent is not going away.
Speaker 4: So even though we see these headlines, you think Corporate
Speaker 4: America are certainly the big companies, the publicly held companies
Speaker 4: where we're seeing these headlines. You say that they still
Speaker 4: you believe that they're still committed to DEI efforts. Absolutely, yes,
Speaker 4: all right, that's go ahead to him.
Speaker 3: Well, it was just with thirty seconds left. Then why
Speaker 3: be so public about moving away from them?
Speaker 2: I think in this world today that the need for
Speaker 2: healing is imperative, and that's why we wrote the book
Speaker 2: and issued it in this moment. The narrative in this
Speaker 2: nation is divisive and it's forcing people to choose positions.
Speaker 2: Healing is about connections. Healing is about bringing people together
Speaker 2: across their differences, and that is the work of the
Speaker 2: nation for the future, and that is what we know
Speaker 2: people want to do.
Speaker 4: Well that I like ending on that optimistic note, June,
Speaker 4: thank you so much. Lea June Montgomery Tabron, President and
Speaker 4: CEO of the Kellogg Foundation. The new book How We
Speaker 4: Heal This is Bloomberg