Speaker 1: This week, as we celebrate the true meaning of Christmas,
Speaker 1: the birth of Jesus Christ, I want to stay on
Speaker 1: faith and the role of God and our country. So
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a really important book that
Speaker 1: just came out. We're going to interview the author of
Speaker 1: the book. The book is called Under His Wings, How
Speaker 1: Faith on the front Lines Has Protected American Troops. It
Speaker 1: is a celebration of faith and freedom, sharing first person
Speaker 1: accounts that show the profound role the belief in God
Speaker 1: has played in the lives of US military service members
Speaker 1: as they have served in combat from World War One
Speaker 1: to today, commemorating the courage, camaraderie, spirit and sacrifice of
Speaker 1: America's heroes. You're probably very familiar with the author. Her
Speaker 1: name is Emily Campano. She's a friend and a colleague
Speaker 1: of mine. She's also the co host of Fox News
Speaker 1: is Outnumbered. She has a podcast called The Fox True
Speaker 1: Crime Podcast with Emily Campano. But most importantly in reference
Speaker 1: to this episode, she is the author this amazing book.
Speaker 1: Clearly the rest of America agrees. It is a New
Speaker 1: York Times bestseller the very first week it went on sale.
Speaker 1: But we're going to talk about this book talk about
Speaker 1: her life, how she got into TV as well. Prior
Speaker 1: to that, she served as an attorney in the federal government,
Speaker 1: also practiced criminal defense and civil litigation. So we'll talk
Speaker 1: about her time in the law, how she got into TV,
Speaker 1: and this just very very special book, why it means
Speaker 1: so much to her, why she decided to write it,
Speaker 1: why it's so special, So stay tuned for that. And
Speaker 1: Lee Campanno, Well, Emily, I'm so excited to have you
Speaker 1: on this show. I appreciate you taking the time. I
Speaker 1: always love being on with you when I'm on Outnumbered,
Speaker 1: And I'm just so excited.
Speaker 2: Lisa, you are the best, and the honor and pleasure
Speaker 2: are all mine, believe me.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 1: Well, you were the best. And also I feel like
Speaker 1: I've learned. I mean, I always knew that you were smart,
Speaker 1: I knew that you had an illegal background, but you've
Speaker 1: done a lot, and so I can't wait to kind
Speaker 1: of just dig into your life, how you got into
Speaker 1: TV and then this amazing book that you wrote. But
Speaker 1: so I didn't realize you were the president of the
Speaker 1: Federalist Society in law school. So I imagine these past four
Speaker 1: years have been really tough for you to witness, you know,
Speaker 1: the weaponization of the law and or Biden and sort
Speaker 1: of the erosion of our constitution. So you'll talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about that, and then also just you know,
Speaker 1: from someone who cares about the constitution and as an originalist,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about sort of these past four years
Speaker 1: and witnessing all of this with the bid deminstration.
Speaker 2: You know, I will say Lisa that I think that
Speaker 2: the most surprising thing is not necessarily that people who
Speaker 2: believe in big government and people who you know, proffer
Speaker 2: big government as the answer, that they would encroach upon
Speaker 2: our liberties and that they would try to take away
Speaker 2: our freedoms.
Speaker 3: That's not a surprise.
Speaker 2: The surprise is the speed with which it all came
Speaker 2: crashing down, and the speed with which so many of
Speaker 2: our liberties and independents were taken away, how quickly law
Speaker 2: fair was used as a weapon. You know, I at
Speaker 2: least thought of these institutions is more sacred than that,
Speaker 2: as a little bit more stable than that. So I think,
Speaker 2: you know, my greatest takeaway of the last four years is,
Speaker 2: I guess it's in line with what Russell Schorteau wrote
Speaker 2: about the island of Sicily, which is where my family
Speaker 2: immigrated from.
Speaker 3: And he talked about that.
Speaker 2: He said, Look, the island of Sicily withstood for centuries invaders,
Speaker 2: you know, the Carthaginians and the Moors and all the things,
Speaker 2: he said, and it was always, it was always standing.
Speaker 3: The people always survived.
Speaker 2: But he said, nothing brought it to quicker or more
Speaker 2: devastating ruin than the Italian government. And the Italian government
Speaker 2: did in twenty years what centuries of those invaders had not,
Speaker 2: which is bringing the island to complete an utter ruin.
Speaker 3: And I see that.
Speaker 2: I've thought about that often in the last four years, Lisa,
Speaker 2: because he's exactly right, that the dismantling, that the absolute
Speaker 2: ruination of so much of this country, and again like
Speaker 2: the frankly eradication of so many of our liberties and
Speaker 2: independence came so quickly, came with with the.
Speaker 3: Stroke of a pen, came with the wielding of of.
Speaker 2: You know, elected das and the forces behind such, and
Speaker 2: that the prosecutorial discretions in both.
Speaker 3: Sides, and it just kills me.
Speaker 2: And I think the American people, thank God, saw that
Speaker 2: window of these last four years of what you know,
Speaker 2: in our sort of bifurcated to through an adventure what
Speaker 2: it could be like, and they chose, they chose wisely
Speaker 2: to quote Indiana Jones in the Last Cruisiade.
Speaker 3: You know what they shoudness.
Speaker 2: But yes, as president of the Federalist Society, you know,
Speaker 2: that wasn't that much. Wasn't that long ago that I
Speaker 2: was of just my small chapter in my law school,
Speaker 2: and at the time, my function was to ensure.
Speaker 3: That every debate was in fact a fair and equal debate.
Speaker 2: So for every speaker that was brought on campus, my
Speaker 2: role was to a book, you know, to ensure and
Speaker 2: book a speaker from the other side.
Speaker 3: And at the time, no one ever gave me flack.
Speaker 3: It was not a big deal. People supported that. It
Speaker 3: was actually lovely.
Speaker 2: It was exactly the way that debate should work, and
Speaker 2: it was everything was policy based, ideology based, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and balanced is the point.
Speaker 2: And cut to just a few years later, and we
Speaker 2: saw the absolute censorship, the absolute destruction of free speech rights,
Speaker 2: of any kind of of free speech or public discourse.
Speaker 2: We saw campuses being mowed down, people enduring physical violence
Speaker 2: at the hands of ideological censorship, of the refusal to
Speaker 2: hear and entertain any kind of debate. So the moral
Speaker 2: of the story for me is that it happens so quickly,
Speaker 2: and it's going to be a long road.
Speaker 3: To put the bricks back. But I have faith that this.
Speaker 2: Incoming administration is exactly that turnaround that we need.
Speaker 1: Well. And I'm glad that you said all that, because
Speaker 1: you know, you know, as Americans, you know, we're used
Speaker 1: to being free, and you sort of don't realize how
Speaker 1: fleeting that freedom can be, you know, And and to
Speaker 1: your point, as you so eloquently stated about, we've sort
Speaker 1: of seen these freedoms trampled upon these past four years,
Speaker 1: and it sort of like woke Americans up and you
Speaker 1: know it certainly, you know, woke me up. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it woke you up too, to just how quickly we
Speaker 1: could lose all of that, and you know, how quickly
Speaker 1: we can lose the American dream, and how important it
Speaker 1: is to preserve and fight for.
Speaker 2: It totally, and how the branches of government and the
Speaker 2: bodies of government that I thought were so independent that
Speaker 2: you know the reality is they are in theory that
Speaker 2: they're made up of people. You know, the money that
Speaker 2: the government operates with, that income that is our earned income.
Speaker 2: There are people operating within these bodies and agencies and
Speaker 2: branches of government. So when we talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: preserving that independence, my point is, you know, when it
Speaker 2: was just bastardized, when we saw free speech protesters, when
Speaker 2: we saw protesters for life.
Speaker 3: And how do you want to call them protesters?
Speaker 2: When we saw demonstrators, octagenarian demonstrators that were standing tall
Speaker 2: for the right to life, and we saw criminal prosecutions
Speaker 2: for that, we thought incarcerations for that.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the whole point.
Speaker 2: So I think the eye opening moment for America was like,
Speaker 2: you know, the lady, justice is supposed to be blind,
Speaker 2: but that only occurs when the people in those positions
Speaker 2: operate as such. And the subjectivity that we saw, the
Speaker 2: subjectivity that we saw in emails that were foid in
Speaker 2: all of the I mean, don't even get me started
Speaker 2: on the entire you know, Russia Gate and all the
Speaker 2: Intelligent community and right, it's like that all of that,
Speaker 2: those were the most farcical but dangerous, fictional, you know
Speaker 2: creations of these bodies, right, because when we say those
Speaker 2: things phrases like the intelligence community, when we say that,
Speaker 2: the executive branch, when we say the judicial branch like
Speaker 2: that that embodies this sacred independence. But it was anything
Speaker 2: but so you know, we the House claiming that we
Speaker 2: need I mean, that's that's an understatement. But again, you
Speaker 2: know it's I think it's going to come sort of radically,
Speaker 2: you know, do which is a big deal for sure.
Speaker 2: But I think the bigger deal is not necessarily slimming
Speaker 2: down the government. It's the transparency that Dojes dedicated to
Speaker 2: that I think will be really the radical part.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point, and that transparency
Speaker 1: is really needed also, just like to bring trust back
Speaker 1: in government, right, so many Americans, you know, we no
Speaker 1: longer trust our government, and so that transparency is key there.
Speaker 1: So you had a whole pre TV life, you know,
Speaker 1: where you worked as an attorney for the federal government.
Speaker 1: You practice criminal defense and civil litigation when you lived
Speaker 1: in California, and the list goes on. You ever missed
Speaker 1: working as an attorney? And what are you most proud
Speaker 1: of from that chapter of life?
Speaker 2: Thank you for asking that I'm still licensed. I still
Speaker 2: do a couple things sort of and so I feel connected.
Speaker 2: What I'm most proud of is I think my work
Speaker 2: with the incarcerated, and as a federal attorney, you know,
Speaker 2: I represented the government. My criminal defense work was private,
Speaker 2: and I saw therefore both sides. And when we talk
Speaker 2: about the government, you know, I've spoken a lot of
Speaker 2: you know, the bloat and the machine that it is.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of the work of defense attorneys.
Speaker 2: It's not to say my client's totally innocent or you know,
Speaker 2: get me off.
Speaker 3: It's really a lot more nuanced than that. It's to
Speaker 3: ensure that our rights are protected.
Speaker 2: It's to ensure that, for example, the charges are commensurate,
Speaker 2: that the sentence is commensurate, that the you know, again
Speaker 2: that sacred nature of the justice system that we spoke
Speaker 2: about earlier, that it's upheld. And there's a lot of
Speaker 2: deep abject loneliness and sort of toxicity and the things
Speaker 2: that your tax dollars pay for in the incarcerated system.
Speaker 2: Everyone should be horrified all day, every day. And it's
Speaker 2: a hard group of people to advocate for. A lot
Speaker 2: of people you know have discarded them civically and socially.
Speaker 2: But the reality is the largest group of growing incarcerated
Speaker 2: individuals are veterans.
Speaker 3: They are single moms. So you know, when you when
Speaker 3: you marry all of that together.
Speaker 2: There are fellow Americans, and there's a lot of gray
Speaker 2: area within that. So I'm most proud of actual help
Speaker 2: and providing, you know, actual actual impact to those that
Speaker 2: have been discarded by society. And I don't I don't
Speaker 2: miss it per se. You know, I'll be honest, Lisa,
Speaker 2: because I love what we do here. It's such an
Speaker 2: honor to serve as a messenger like I. That's incredible
Speaker 2: to me. I don't miss the stress, that's for sure,
Speaker 2: because the stress in that world was I felt very
Speaker 2: it really was. You know, I don't want to say
Speaker 2: life or death. It wasn't like that. I'm not a doctor,
Speaker 2: but I the deep weight of futures and freedoms and
Speaker 2: representation and advocacy like that's.
Speaker 3: I took that so seriously. So I don't miss I
Speaker 3: think the toll it took on me I probably last
Speaker 3: a couple of years of my life.
Speaker 1: I could see that bang. I mean, that's a heavy
Speaker 1: toll to have, especially you know, as you pointed out,
Speaker 1: and I know you, you know, you take it seriously
Speaker 1: and it means a lot to you. So it is
Speaker 1: a heavy toll. We've got to take a quick break
Speaker 1: more with Emily. You know so and obviously all that
Speaker 1: you know what we've discussed about. You know, your background
Speaker 1: and that legal background has shaped you being a co
Speaker 1: host on Outnumbered and sort of bringing that point of
Speaker 1: view on the show. But I don't think, I know
Speaker 1: how did you get on television? You know? So what
Speaker 1: was your pathway? So you know, you're a lawyer, you're
Speaker 1: doing all this this big stuff, and then how did
Speaker 1: you get into TV? What led you to that?
Speaker 2: So in law school was sort of the advent, I
Speaker 2: would say it was about that time, maybe a little
Speaker 2: before the advent of the business model that we have
Speaker 2: now that's sort of taken for granted in broadcasting, which
Speaker 2: is like a subject matter expert alongside an anchor. And
Speaker 2: so when I saw that, that became married with my
Speaker 2: goals because at the time I was interested in being
Speaker 2: an international law attorney. I had traveled around the world.
Speaker 2: I had sailed around the world, gone to a lot
Speaker 2: of Third World countries and mission trips in Africa and
Speaker 2: different countries around the world, and so I felt very
Speaker 2: strongly that the way to health affect change would be
Speaker 2: on an international law that, like I literally said to myself,
Speaker 2: the way to honor my family, that the sacrifices and
Speaker 2: that my family has made here and that the you know,
Speaker 2: my immigrant family and military family and all these things, like,
Speaker 2: is to take advantage of the education we have here
Speaker 2: in this in this country and make a.
Speaker 3: Difference that way, like to truly.
Speaker 2: Take advantage of the opportunities here that they worked so
Speaker 2: hard so that we could all have. So that was
Speaker 2: my lofty goals, and then it's that still existed. But
Speaker 2: I fell into ironically, I fell into litigation and then
Speaker 2: criminal law, and I was like, oh my gosh, this
Speaker 2: is my passion, this is amazing. So at the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, I was cheering in the NFL, and I
Speaker 2: remember on my rookie card like it said what is
Speaker 2: your goal? And I'm like, I want to be a
Speaker 2: legal analyst, because that to me was like the perfect
Speaker 2: end goal, to be able to be an attorney on
Speaker 2: air help others understand it. But through the lens of
Speaker 2: my experience, and as you pointed out, you know, it
Speaker 2: was sort of varied, and so I felt like, this
Speaker 2: is the best way to help everyone is to inform them,
Speaker 2: to educate them, but not just rotely, not just here's
Speaker 2: the law, but like really through the lens of my experience.
Speaker 2: So that was the legal analyst business model that I
Speaker 2: was going after. So after I we call it retiring.
Speaker 2: After I retired from the NFL, and I was just
Speaker 2: a federal attorney at that point.
Speaker 3: Then, you know, the.
Speaker 2: Short story is I got a shot on TV and
Speaker 2: my first segment it was actually long, it was like
Speaker 2: six or seven minutes, and we were talking about the
Speaker 2: judicial appointment, the Elena Kagan at that time judicial nomination
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 3: And then from there it went on and I just became,
Speaker 3: you know, more and more regular on.
Speaker 2: Local channels as I moved around with the federal government,
Speaker 2: and then got on Fox and that was sort of.
Speaker 3: The rest is history.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I was also doing a
Speaker 2: lot of sports business analysis too, so ESPN and a
Speaker 2: lot of sports radio, and I sort of told myself,
Speaker 2: all right, God is going to reveal you know which
Speaker 2: arena I'm meant to be in, and I just continued
Speaker 2: following both until again, you know.
Speaker 3: Fox, Fox came about and that was my dream.
Speaker 2: So I ended up being the news route versus the
Speaker 2: sports business analysis route.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, it's like we make plans and
Speaker 1: God laugh. Yeah, yeah, like the road always leads us
Speaker 1: to where you know we're supposed to be. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: I want to get to your book under His Wings,
Speaker 1: but I I've got to ask you this first. So
Speaker 1: you also have a podcast. It's Fox News Audios Audios
Speaker 1: the Fox True Crime Podcast with Emily Capano. So I
Speaker 1: have recently got into true crime. Like there's there's all
Speaker 1: these like funny memes about why women have so much
Speaker 1: anxiety and stressed out. It's like because we watched a
Speaker 1: true crime. But totally tell me, So what is the
Speaker 1: crazy before we get through book? Which is really important.
Speaker 1: What is the craziest story you've covered so far for
Speaker 1: the podcast?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Wait.
Speaker 2: First of all, you know it's so funny about that,
Speaker 2: Like I'm like the because okay, this because I was
Speaker 2: a criminal attorney, Like because you know, my days were
Speaker 2: spent like in prisons and it was like frightening and
Speaker 2: all the things. Literally all I watch Lisa is like
Speaker 2: the Hallmark Chunnel.
Speaker 3: Like that's exactly why all I can watch is.
Speaker 1: Like I need to lived that need a break.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know.
Speaker 2: Nothing beyond a g rated show that is all I
Speaker 2: can handle.
Speaker 3: That's so funny in the serial kular world.
Speaker 1: Look, I'm like the opposite. I'm like, I want it.
Speaker 1: I want the grit, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I feel like I think the most. I will
Speaker 3: say this that.
Speaker 2: The most unique, the unique aspect about my pod in general,
Speaker 2: is that everybody we have is like the closest person
Speaker 2: to the crime.
Speaker 3: So many other true crime pods, someone is.
Speaker 2: Telling the story that they read, or an attorney is
Speaker 2: discussing it from like a you know, an analysis objective
Speaker 2: point of view. But everyone that I have on there
Speaker 2: like it was the person who survived, it was the
Speaker 2: detective who caught the purp, it was the judge, it
Speaker 2: was the prosecutor, it was the sister of the missing.
Speaker 2: I mean, these are like the closest person to that
Speaker 2: crime is whose stories we share, and that's such an
Speaker 2: honor for me. So that being said, to answer your question,
Speaker 2: I will say, either a couple times we've had the
Speaker 2: criminal himself and that.
Speaker 3: Sort of unheard of. And there was a few episodes.
Speaker 2: There's one in particular where it was it's crazy that
Speaker 2: I'm using this word, but it was like the most
Speaker 2: delightful episode I've ever had in my life. He was
Speaker 2: a delight and he was an art forger and he
Speaker 2: was like the most prolific art forger of all time,
Speaker 2: and he evaded the FEDS and he like tells everyone
Speaker 2: how to do it was just it was.
Speaker 3: So it was the most fascinating crazy episodes.
Speaker 2: And we talk about you know, crazy, like that word
Speaker 2: whan that episode comes to mind. And then I will
Speaker 2: say all of our survivor episode episodes, which are just
Speaker 2: like the deeply intimate aspect of hearing these brave women
Speaker 2: tell their stories of how they survived, sometimes the most violent.
Speaker 2: You know, there was one young woman who at the
Speaker 2: time she was pregnant, she was six months pregnant and
Speaker 2: survived being stabbed over forty times all over her body.
Speaker 3: Not only did she survive, but her baby survived.
Speaker 2: And she is the only known survivor of this particular
Speaker 2: serial killer. Another survivor who also was the only survivor
Speaker 2: of the Railroad serial killer in college, she watched her
Speaker 2: her then boyfriend be beaten to death and she miraculously survived.
Speaker 3: I mean, their stories, I'm getting chills just saying it.
Speaker 2: But it's like there is nothing more riveting than these amazing, incredible,
Speaker 2: super women that have survived these monsters among us. And
Speaker 2: then yeah, the criminal himself again a non violent criminal.
Speaker 3: The arn't borger. He was just like it was, what's fascinating?
Speaker 3: How how he how he got away with the fence?
Speaker 2: And I challenge you, I think anyone who listens to
Speaker 2: that you will be rooting for him too.
Speaker 3: The only time.
Speaker 1: You've convinced me. So I'm going to have to listen.
Speaker 1: I have to listen to that one that that does
Speaker 1: sound interesting. And obviously just to hear all these different stories,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that, Uh, that's got to be fun for
Speaker 1: you to do. You know, I want to get to
Speaker 1: this book because it's really important. You know, under His
Speaker 1: Way you talk about, you know, why why you wrote
Speaker 1: this book under His Wings, and talk about you know
Speaker 1: what it's about. Tell us a little bit about it
Speaker 1: and why it's important to you, why you decided to
Speaker 1: write it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So it's called Under His Wings How Faith on the
Speaker 2: front Lines has protected American troops And it's sort of
Speaker 2: almost like three books in one, and that answers the
Speaker 2: question of why I wrote it, why I had the
Speaker 2: honor of writing it. And the first is, you know,
Speaker 2: I come from a very strong military family, and my
Speaker 2: mother's a genealogist, a family historian. So I grew up
Speaker 2: having like knowing these stories, looking at these medals all
Speaker 2: on my childhood home walls, having the photographs and the
Speaker 2: records up and like the details going back generations and wars,
Speaker 2: great grandfather, everyone, father, everyone. So these stories are they're
Speaker 2: dramatic at times, you know, involving you know, my great
Speaker 2: grand father. For example, a shell exploded under him in Jaalgon, France,
Speaker 2: in World War One. He was in a coma for
Speaker 2: thirty days. The telegram told his wife at home she
Speaker 2: was a widow, that he had died. So for thirty
Speaker 2: days she believed that she was a widow, and then
Speaker 2: come to find out, you know, I mean the speed
Speaker 2: with which we communicate now, imagine going through a World
Speaker 2: war back then with that kind of delay in communication.
Speaker 2: And then when he you know, again miraculously sort of survived.
Speaker 2: He was restored to a non combat position and he
Speaker 2: worked at the Pow camp because he spoke German. I
Speaker 2: have his photographs, his purple heart, I have all of
Speaker 2: that is in the book. And in that same actually
Speaker 2: the same week that he was blown up, my great
Speaker 2: great uncle, who was his brother in law lost his
Speaker 2: life or that might have been the same week that
Speaker 2: he lost his leg before he lost his life and
Speaker 2: is buried in sur in France.
Speaker 3: And then one World War later, my great great aunt,
Speaker 3: who was a US Army.
Speaker 2: Nurse, she deployed for a year and a half in
Speaker 2: Europe and visited her brother's grave twice. And like I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so much more, but a few for examples of
Speaker 2: my aunt lou she wrote letters home at least once
Speaker 2: a week that we saved and we have, so that's
Speaker 2: in the book, and leaning on her faith to do so.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of this beautiful rendition of history like that,
Speaker 2: the intimate details of history through my family and my
Speaker 2: mother's legacy that I had the honor of carrying on
Speaker 2: and then serving as a messenger for all of these
Speaker 2: war fighters who had these just extraordinary experiences with God
Speaker 2: and faith on the front line and being the messenger
Speaker 2: for these stories and some of them Lisa never told anyone,
Speaker 2: and the first person that they told was me, and
Speaker 2: they trusted me to share these stories with the world,
Speaker 2: and that is just such a humbling honor. And then
Speaker 2: the third is, you know, as we mentioned I was
Speaker 2: an NFL cheerleader and I had the honor of going
Speaker 2: to Kuwait in Iraq to visit the deployed troops in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. And while there, we visited Solder City,
Speaker 2: which is a joint security station and bad Dad that
Speaker 2: like no one ever went to. They never got VIPs,
Speaker 2: they never got club visits because it was so dangerous,
Speaker 2: super urban and for some reason, man, it was on
Speaker 2: the itinerary, and all the guys were like, there's no
Speaker 2: way you girls are going there. And then the guys
Speaker 2: that were there were like, there's no way the girls
Speaker 2: are coming here, Like there is no way NFL cheerleaders
Speaker 2: are coming to Solder City.
Speaker 3: And we went and we ended up gaving.
Speaker 2: The black Hawk that was supposed to take us back
Speaker 2: home was diverted for a metavac, so we ended up
Speaker 2: getting stranded there and we spent all night there and
Speaker 2: we called it the Solder City slumber Party. And the
Speaker 2: colonel that then, he was a lieutenant colonel at the time,
Speaker 2: the lieutenant colonel in charge. His name is Tim Carter,
Speaker 2: and I remember him like to this day, I'll never forget.
Speaker 2: He was like, I have three daughters at home, and
Speaker 2: there's no way in hell I'm going to bed and
Speaker 2: tell you girls or think that, like.
Speaker 3: It was so funny, and we were like we loved.
Speaker 2: It, like we thought it was great, and you know,
Speaker 2: I found out later it was like so blood pressure
Speaker 2: skyrocketing to have NFL cheerleaders like anywhere near them, let alone,
Speaker 2: like oh my gosh, and now they're stuck here, like,
Speaker 2: oh my Godcus, you know, it's such a safety issue
Speaker 2: from Port Gun. So we you know, we spend the
Speaker 2: night and it's like awesome. It was like summer camp,
Speaker 2: you know, it was just it was like family. That
Speaker 2: was so great.
Speaker 3: And then we never went to bed.
Speaker 2: We just stayed up all night hanging out with the
Speaker 2: guys outside in the courtyard. And then we left and
Speaker 2: he was like that is all everyone talked about for days.
Speaker 2: For three days, was you girls coming and how fun
Speaker 2: it was and like such a breath of fresh air
Speaker 2: in the middle of this war to have just like
Speaker 2: five awesome you know girls from like from the US man.
Speaker 3: We were bringing like all the love from home.
Speaker 2: And then after that three days they ran over an
Speaker 2: ied and Colonel Carterer lost his legs and Sergeant Timothy David.
Speaker 3: Lost his life.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was.
Speaker 2: And he was younger than I was, younger than I
Speaker 2: was at the time, and it was his sixth tour
Speaker 2: of duty.
Speaker 3: This is Timothy David that I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: And so we reunited fifteen years later for this book and.
Speaker 3: His story of it's our story together that we share.
Speaker 2: And then his story of survival many times by the way,
Speaker 2: he died multiple times, each time being resuscitated.
Speaker 3: He credits prayers with his survival.
Speaker 2: And you know, as he said, he was like God
Speaker 2: promised me eternal leg or God promised me eternal life,
Speaker 2: not eternal legs. His it's like you know those people
Speaker 2: that can make you laugh and cry at the same time.
Speaker 2: So those are those are the reasons, and those are
Speaker 2: the stories, and it's just it is an extraordinary book
Speaker 2: because of those voices.
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Speaker 1: call eight for four eight two four Safe Today to
Speaker 1: protect what matters the most. So this is really a
Speaker 1: passion project for you because as I'm hearing you sort
Speaker 1: of describe it, I mean, you're really able to sort
Speaker 1: of incorporate your your own experiences, Like you're talking about
Speaker 1: how you visited Iraq and Kuwait, and I know you
Speaker 1: also talk about other visitors with the USO, you know,
Speaker 1: from Marilyn Monroe to Ronald Reagan and the impact that
Speaker 1: those visits have. And then you're you're taught, you're abill
Speaker 1: to share your family stories as well, and so sort
Speaker 1: of just being re uh, you know, reminded of that
Speaker 1: and then just also you know, as you pointed out
Speaker 1: the story you just shared from you know, people that
Speaker 1: you met on these visits as well, and your faith
Speaker 1: in God as well. So it's you know, how that
Speaker 1: must have been really special for you to be able
Speaker 1: to kind of put all that together, all of your passions,
Speaker 1: you know, your personal history, your personal beliefs, all in
Speaker 1: one book, and to to present that to the world.
Speaker 1: I bet this has been a really special project for you.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: It really is just the honor of a lifetime to
Speaker 2: serve to serve again, like I to serve as a
Speaker 2: messenger for these warfighters, for these soldiers for this country,
Speaker 2: and they're also soldiers in the Army of Christ, and
Speaker 2: like to be entrusted with these very sacred personal stories,
Speaker 2: you know, these these deeply detailed stories of what happened
Speaker 2: to them, you know, in the thick of a firefight
Speaker 2: in Iraq and the in an ambush in Vietnam, while
Speaker 2: a pow you know, fighter pilots, gold star mothers, catastrophically
Speaker 2: injured spouses, like people bottling PTSD, like the military chaplains.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there are so every story is so.
Speaker 2: Unique that the person telling it their position, their branch,
Speaker 2: what happened between them and God, what happened between them
Speaker 2: and their answered prayers or their angel or their faith.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I to be able to serve
Speaker 2: as there I keep repeating myself, only because I'm so
Speaker 2: wedded to raising it this way, like to serving as
Speaker 2: their messenger, and to be able to I hope inspire
Speaker 2: others to feel bold in their faith or to feel
Speaker 2: fellowship with others. And I know that it's already had
Speaker 2: that impact that veterans and war fighters are have after
Speaker 2: reading this, have come out and asked for help or
Speaker 2: asked for fellowship.
Speaker 3: And that to me is I mean, that's just the
Speaker 3: answer to my prayers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I know you have a heart for
Speaker 1: our military heroes and first responders. You know, you're always
Speaker 1: doing stuff with them, so I know that you know
Speaker 1: they have a special place in your heart. Before we go.
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite story from it? Or is
Speaker 1: that like trying to pick your favorite child? Is that
Speaker 1: is that blasphemous to try to pick a favorite story?
Speaker 2: You are right, they are all equal, They are all
Speaker 2: children to me, Like, I definitely cannot pick a favorite.
Speaker 3: But do you want me to share, like a short one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Just share whatever? Yeah, whatever stands out to you, whatever's
Speaker 1: top of mine.
Speaker 2: I think one in particular that will really resonate with
Speaker 2: many of your listeners and people in general. Sergeant Darryl Enfinger.
Speaker 2: I mentioned him. He was the Vietnam infantryman. And this
Speaker 2: is an example of it tying together all of these
Speaker 2: threads where you know, he talked about going to the
Speaker 2: USO tour.
Speaker 3: He saw Bob Hope perform in Vietnam.
Speaker 2: He loved it, and he talked about, you know what
Speaker 2: that was like to have this break in what was
Speaker 2: an endless war for them, and his war.
Speaker 3: Was really violent and he had given up on God.
Speaker 2: He was seen death every day and he was saying,
Speaker 2: you know it was it was the good guys that
Speaker 2: were dying. You know why, What is the difference of
Speaker 2: having the person in front of me get blown up
Speaker 2: and I survived.
Speaker 3: And he was the father, father of three kids, and.
Speaker 2: He had totally lost his compass in that way, and
Speaker 2: he said, you know, look, I didn't lose my belief
Speaker 2: in God, but I was just angry with him. And
Speaker 2: he stopped talking to him, and he was describing the
Speaker 2: details of being a Vietnam infantryman and it's just horrific.
Speaker 2: And one day, in the thick of an ambush, horrific ambush,
Speaker 2: he said, all of a sudden, he had this clear
Speaker 2: vision and God presented to him what would happen if
Speaker 2: he went left down the hill, or what would happen
Speaker 2: if you went right, And it was like heaven and hell,
Speaker 2: and it was life and death. And he followed God's vision,
Speaker 2: and he followed this safe way path and it was
Speaker 2: his miracle that he survived because of that vision, he
Speaker 2: knew exactly where to go to survive that just incredibly
Speaker 2: violent and deadly ambush where men around him were dying everywhere.
Speaker 2: But the miracle, you know that, he argues, is it's
Speaker 2: not life or death, because again, as we talked about,
Speaker 2: it's eternal life. When you are a believer, so earthly,
Speaker 2: our earthly lives are fleeting no matter what, but he
Speaker 2: it restored his prayers, his communication with God, and it's
Speaker 2: like everything that happened after as a result of this
Speaker 2: renewed faith and strength in his prayer with God, that
Speaker 2: it was so incredible.
Speaker 3: And to this day he.
Speaker 2: Goes to the Vietnam War regularly and he has a
Speaker 2: cup coffee, he says, with his fifty eight thousand men,
Speaker 2: because every morning in Vietnam they would share a canteen
Speaker 2: and of coffee. There wasn't enough for one for everyone,
Speaker 2: and then every night not everyone would make it home.
Speaker 2: And so now he goes where he can have his
Speaker 2: coffee with all of them. And he's been an advocate
Speaker 2: for Vietnam veterans and faith in their processing of their
Speaker 2: grief and everything.
Speaker 3: So he tells the story a lot better than I do.
Speaker 2: But that's just a taste of, you know, the miracles
Speaker 2: that these guys experienced on the battlefield. But then how
Speaker 2: the true miracle and the true incredible story sometimes is
Speaker 2: what happened after.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to do an honor airflight with Vietnam
Speaker 1: vet's for Fox and Friends and it was definitely one
Speaker 1: of the most special days I've had, just like seeing
Speaker 1: how important it meant you know it was for them,
Speaker 1: and how much of a blessing it was for them
Speaker 1: to be celebrated like that. I mean seeing like grown
Speaker 1: men cry like you know, which I'm sure in your
Speaker 1: interviews with a lot of these people, I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: emotional too.
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, And one of the POWs wrote me after
Speaker 2: actually and said after he read it, and he said,
Speaker 2: I I cried throughout it, And he said, not for
Speaker 2: what I endured. He was a six year tortuously captive pow,
Speaker 2: but he said for how you told this story. And
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to turn it back to me, but
Speaker 2: just to say that, yes, like the emotions invoked during
Speaker 2: these stories, we were cried through most of them, for sure,
Speaker 2: you know, laughed as well.
Speaker 3: We always prayed before and after.
Speaker 2: But then to have that reaction from him of how
Speaker 2: I I captured it, I knew that was all God,
Speaker 2: and I was so grateful because again, the whole purpose
Speaker 2: was to honor them, like with your honor flight. You're right,
Speaker 2: and I'm so glad you did that, to experience that
Speaker 2: with them, to see that reverence they hold for each
Speaker 2: other and for their service, and to show your reverence
Speaker 2: because I know you have a heart for it too.
Speaker 3: Any every patriot does you know? You can't, you can't not.
Speaker 1: And in course, you know, people are saying how speciful
Speaker 1: the book is. It is in New York time, i'ms
Speaker 1: bestseller the very first week it went on stale, which
Speaker 1: is such an honor and a testament to you know
Speaker 1: how special the book is and how important the messages
Speaker 1: in the book are. You know, as we celebrate Christmas,
Speaker 1: is there anything else you'd like to leave us with
Speaker 1: Emily before we go?
Speaker 2: Ah, First of all, merry Christmas, and give that The
Speaker 2: two lessons in the book, the penultimate one is that
Speaker 2: you are never alone, that God is always with you.
Speaker 2: And then secondarily to that, that you are never alone
Speaker 2: in fellowship, and that if anyone is feeling alone at all,
Speaker 2: just know that you are not. God is with you
Speaker 2: and there are people here to support you.
Speaker 3: So please reach out. There are many of us that
Speaker 3: will be there in a heartbeat.
Speaker 1: Under his wings. How faith on the front lines has
Speaker 1: protected American troops. Go out and get it. Catch Emily
Speaker 1: on Outnumbered. And now I've got to tune in to
Speaker 1: the true crime podcast of this art Forger. That sounds
Speaker 1: very interesting, So I'm going to have to watch that.
Speaker 2: You're gonna love it, And I was gonna say, like,
Speaker 2: I wish I could reciprocate.
Speaker 3: I'm so honored to be on your pod, but like,
Speaker 3: it's a good thing that you're not invited to my
Speaker 3: podcast because it means you haven't had a crime happen
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 2: So it's a good thing to not be invited on
Speaker 2: my pod.
Speaker 1: As much as I would love to come on your podcast,
Speaker 1: I'm praying that you never have a reason to interviewing
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 3: Strange morning on one exactly, I'm like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's the first time I've been like,
Speaker 1: I actually do not want to go on your podcast,
Speaker 1: but it's only because of the reasons that would bring
Speaker 1: me to it, exactly exactly. I'll be a listener only exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: congrats on the success of the book. It's it's so special.
Speaker 1: So I'm so glad that you know so many people
Speaker 1: see that as well, and we will continue to watch
Speaker 1: you one out numbered and uh wish you continued success
Speaker 1: and Merry Christmas, and my friend, I'm sure i'll see
Speaker 1: you soon, so you.
Speaker 3: Are the best. Merry Christmas. I love you. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much for this. Thank you so much for this time.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful and I can't wait to have you
Speaker 2: back on the couch in New York hopefully soon, or
Speaker 2: better yet, me visiting you and Sunni Miami.
Speaker 1: I think that yes, you'll let me know yes. Love
Speaker 1: you to Mary Christmas, I'm so proud and happy for you. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That was Emily Campagno, a co host of
Speaker 1: Outnumbered and author of Under His Wings. What a special book.
Speaker 1: We appreciate her time. We appreciate you guys at home
Speaker 1: for listening every Monday and Thursday, but you can listen
Speaker 1: throughout the week. Also want to think John Cassio and
Speaker 1: my producer for putting the show together. Until next time.