1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: and we make up the Stuff you Should Know family, 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: the peace loving, acid loving, no murdering nice family. Did 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: I say acid loving in there? You did? Oh? We 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: just meant peace loving, non murdering family. Yeah. And you 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: know what, hopefully there are no kids listening to this 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: one anyway, so we can let everyone else know that 10 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: we take LSD before every episode. Sure, I mean the 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: slogan of our show is wow, He's Alie. Yeah, so 12 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: c o A. For those of you who did not 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: see the title, Uh, if you're listening to your kids 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: about the Manson family murders out of c o A, 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: then you need a parenting c o A. Yeah for real. 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: But there are lots of grizzly details in this, so 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: obviously you may want to skip this one. With a 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: on a on a family picnic, Yeah, it might kind 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: of bring it down a couple of degrees. Might be 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: a drag, you know, probably so Uh, speaking of drags, Chuck, 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: I'll tell you who is a drag Charles Manson. He was. 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: He was so like, there's this, there's this reputed legend 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: that Charles Manson tried out for the Monkeys. It was rejected, 24 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: and that was ultimately why he um ordered these these 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: grizzly murders. Um of what that will definitely get into. 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: But it turns out that's absolutely false. Yeah, that that 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: I've heard that and it always sounded to me like 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: an urban legend. Well, so the thing is, it's got 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: like all sorts of interesting facets to it, though right, 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: it's demonstrably false. He was in prison at the time 31 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: the Monkeys tryouts were held. But it kind of coincides 32 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: with this larger part of Charles Manson's life that not 33 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: everybody is fully aware of, which is that he wanted 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: to be a star. He wanted to be a musical 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: recording star, and he actually had. He made some inroads 36 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: into that career, and I have read theories that it 37 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: is possible that these murders were ordered as a means 38 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: of venting Manson's frustration that his music career wasn't going 39 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: as well as he thought it should, and sending a 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: message to some people in the music industry that he 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: made contact with to basically say, hey, I can't kill 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: you because I need you, but I can kill other 43 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: people to get you going and and get my music 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: career off the ground. What's the hold up? Which is 45 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: just like the Manson family murders on their face, as 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: they're largely understood, is nuts. But if that's the real 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: thing behind all of this, that's just the depths of pravity, 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: of human depravity that people are capable of. I bet 49 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: that's not like the sole reason. But but you know, 50 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: like if you really strip reasons down, like what are 51 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: motivations for things? Like is it really you know, to 52 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: bring on Helter Skelter? Is it because he was a 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: frustrated musician? You know? Like you can say the same 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: thing about Hitler, like was there a kernel of Hitler's 55 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: rejection from the art world and from people at large 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: that drove him to to order the horrible things that 57 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: he ordered the Nazis to do? Like it makes you wonder, 58 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: like what is the motivation but behind world changing events 59 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: when you break them down to a personal level. Yeah, 60 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: I mean, well, Manson, to be fair, was had mental 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: illness in a lifetime of rejection, so this could all 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: affector in for sure. Yeah. But so I mean you 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: you you asked for this article to be written, didn't you. 64 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: Was this your jam? Yeah? We yeah. At the Grabster 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: we can sort of petition him to write articles at times, 66 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: and this was definitely one of them. Yeah. So did 67 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: you know a lot about the Manson family murders and 68 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: the family themselves and all that stuff already? Yeah? So 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: you this was this is probably still part of like 70 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: the cultural zeitgeist when you were becoming like aware of 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: the world as a kid. Huh. Yeah. Like I definitely 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: remember the book Helter Skelter being a huge, huge thing. Um. 73 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: And I remember a time before, like media was so 74 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 1: robust when the idea of Charles Manson was just so 75 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: terrifying to me. I do too, uh. And then I 76 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: got older and saw interviews and I was like, oh, 77 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: he's just a little tiny redneck. Yeah, like it all vanished. 78 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, he's just he's just 79 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: a little redneck. Yeah. I think that's what. There were 80 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: two things that kids of the eighties went through as 81 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: far as awakenings. Were concerned that the Soviet people were 82 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: not murder all of us, and that Charles Manson was 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: not actually scary. He was just a dumb redneck behind bars. Yeah, 84 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: I mean he what he did was horrific to be sure, 85 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: so I'm not like minimizing that. But as far as 86 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: the person, he was this larger than life, scary as 87 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: crap dude to me, until you know, interviews started coming 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: out and sit down with like Diane Sawyer was like, 89 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: this guy's a joke. But for a little while there 90 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: he was legitimately America's worst nightmare because at the time, 91 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: like a lot of people say, when the Manson family 92 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: committed these murders and it it came out, you know, 93 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: a couple of months later, that's some depraved acid head 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: hippies had actually committed these gruesome crimes that had captured 95 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: the nation's attention. It suddenly gave the establishment, who had 96 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: been looking for anything to lay on two hippies to say, see, see, 97 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: we told you you can't be trusted. Your whole piece 98 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: love um free stuff like that doesn't work. You can't 99 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: do that, because this is the outcome of it. Manson 100 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: was that personified and for a lot of for that reason, 101 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people say, this guy, these murders ended 102 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: the the summer of love and the era of hippies 103 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: and ushered in the seventies. Yeah, for sure. I mean 104 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: timing wise, Uh, it just seems very natural. And and 105 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: Ed even points out like even during the trial that 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: narrative was being laid down, it wasn't like years later 107 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: people look back and said this. Um. And he also, 108 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting. I never really put 109 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: it into context like Ed did. But Um, the moon landing, 110 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: the very first moon landing that is, happened two weeks 111 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: uh before the Manson family murders, and then a week 112 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: after the murders was Woodstock. So that was a that 113 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: was a nutty month, it really was in America. And 114 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: and again, these murders when they took place, they were 115 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: just no one had any idea who the Manson family 116 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: was except for a handful of people out in l 117 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: A and some cops that had run ins with them. 118 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: But they were not famous, and no one realized that 119 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: the Manson family had been responsible for these murders. They 120 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: were just these gruesome, unsolved murders. In between the moon 121 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: landing and Woodstock. Yeah, so a lot of people let's 122 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: start at the what a lot of people consider the beginning, 123 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: which is the night of August nine, um in a 124 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: house at one zero zero five zero C Yellow Drive, 125 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: which is in Beverly Hills, up in the hills, right, yeah, 126 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: I kind of looked up like three different places how 127 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: to pronounce that, and they all said yellow except for 128 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: Diane Sawyer said cello. And I'm like, man, is dians 129 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: what You're wrong? No about anything? No? Whatever? She says, 130 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: it's absolutely right. She could make turtlenecks, right. I used 131 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: to love turtlenecks. They had, They had a real heyday. 132 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: For sure. You don't see him anymore. I used to 133 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: wear him on. Don't be dumb, but it was kind 134 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: of a gag. I think I could still pull one off, maybe, 135 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: especially with the beard. Yeah. The beard would definitely help, 136 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, because you could you could turn a certain 137 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: way and be like regular shirt turtleneck, regular shirt turtleneck, 138 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: just by just by moving your head and your beard 139 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: out of the way. Yeah. And of course in the 140 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: eighties I would rock the mock turtleneck regularly. Did you 141 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: I never really did. Did you wear them with Ze 142 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: cavaricis No? No, no, no, it wasn't. You didn't dress 143 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: like a c Slater. No, it was sort of um, 144 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: believe it or not, that was like a post preppy 145 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: thing where the mock turtleneck was acceptable and not cheesy. 146 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: Really in a preppy sense. I got you because I 147 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: was sort of a prep before I became a human monster. 148 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: I could see that did you did you wear the 149 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: La cost alligator and stuff? We couldn't afford that stuff, 150 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: So a word, the knockoffs or if I had the 151 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: lacost the alligator was like accidentally sewing onto the collar. 152 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: So oh yeah, yeah, we've had this conversation. Yeah, all 153 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: that good stuff factory seconds. Yep, that's Jory Remnant's nice. 154 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: So on this night on August nine, are we going 155 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: with Ciello or Diane Sawyer's cello? Just let's just say 156 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: that the house that Satan built, right, it's at there anymore? 157 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: By the way, No, they they tore it down, but 158 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: not before Trent Risner went in and recorded at nine 159 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: inch Nail's album There. Why not, um so at this 160 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: at this house at one zero zero five zero Ciello drive, 161 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: that's not there any longer. There's a knock at the 162 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: door in the night of August nine, around midnight. So 163 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if that makes August nine or ten. 164 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't get a definitive answer. But the door was 165 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: answered by a guy named Voitech fried Kowski, who was 166 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: known as a Polish playboy. He was friends of the 167 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: director Roman Polanski. Uh, and he was there because inside 168 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: that house was Roman Polanski's wife, Sharon Tate, who was 169 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: eight months pregnant with their I believe their first child. Um. 170 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't think they had any other children. Sharon type 171 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: was pretty young at the time, but um. Also inside 172 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: was Abigail Folger, who was the heiress to the Folger 173 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: Coffee fortune. And um, I think. Oh, one other guy, 174 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: J C. Brin, who was a stylist who was known 175 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: as the guy who introduced hair styling two men, So 176 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: he was pretty well off and pretty well known as 177 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: far as ELI went. And they're just kind of this 178 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: hip industry party crowd inside this this residence. And there 179 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: was a knock at the door and this guy was 180 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: there at on the other side of the door, and 181 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: he had a mustache and he was tall, kind of 182 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: a natural athlete type type from Texas. And he said, 183 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business. 184 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: And that was Texas Watson, and he entered the house 185 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: and this massacre of everybody inside began. Yeah, so what 186 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: had happened previous to that knock was Texas Watson climbed 187 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: up a telephone pole, cut the phone line, and then 188 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: climbed the fence with a couple of other people, one 189 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: Susan Atkins and one Patricia krin Winkle, all Manson family members. 190 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: And we'll get into the whole family thing in a minute. Uh. 191 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: And so they climbed over the fence, went in. There 192 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: was a kid, a teenager named Steve Parent who was 193 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: leaving in his car already and he did not make 194 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: it out. Um. He was shot five times. He was 195 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: slashed and shot five times by tex Watson before he 196 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: could get down the driveway. So one murder had already 197 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: been committed on that property by the time they even 198 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: got to the house. Yeah. And if any of these people, 199 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: which you can definitely make the case all of them 200 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Stephen 201 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: Parent was just doubly so he was visiting the caretaker 202 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: of the house. So he had nothing to do with 203 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: the the um, the Hollywood jet set people inside, or 204 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: the Manson family. He was just friends with somebody who 205 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: was like a worker at the house and he was 206 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: leaving at the time time too. Yeah, he would have 207 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: been friends with what was the guy's name from the 208 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: o j oh oh man. He would have been friends 209 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: with Kat o'kalin, which is Yeah, that would have been 210 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: a bad, bad thing to be I think talk about 211 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: a mock turtle neck, yeah, I think he has one 212 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: permanently tattooed on his neck. Uh. There was also a 213 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: third of Manson family member, Linda Kasabian, who was not 214 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: in the house, but she waited. Essentially was the getaway driver, 215 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: right and she'd just come into the family like a 216 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: month before. And apparently the reason she was out with 217 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: them was because she was the only one with the 218 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: valid driver's license out of that group. So Lenny Cassabian 219 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: sitting outside, tex Watson, Patricia Krannwinkel, and Um Susan Atkins 220 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: all entered the house and they just start killing everybody. Um. 221 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: Apparently Texas is the only one with a gun, but 222 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: all three of them had knives. Patricia Cranwinkle found Abigail 223 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,599 Speaker 1: Folder reading in bed and started to kill her. Um. 224 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: I believe Sharon Tate and J. C. Bring were in 225 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: the living room together and they were both um killed 226 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: there in the living room, um voytech fried Kowski made 227 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: it out of the house, but he was killed in 228 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: the front lawn. Abigail Folder, I think, made it out 229 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: the back and she died on the back lawn. And 230 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: one of the things about this is like the reason 231 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: the word massacres like such a an apt description like 232 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: these were. These were just basically like I don't know 233 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: how old text was. He was a little bit older, 234 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: but these are basically like seventeen eighteen, nineteen year old girls, um, 235 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: who had never done anything like this before, and we're 236 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: really not very good at it while they were doing 237 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: it this first time, um, And it was just bad 238 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: for everybody. Apparently, it's very brutal. There's a lot of 239 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: fear and terror and a lot of pain and torment 240 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: among everybody who was being killed in this house. It 241 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: wasn't easy clean. You would characterize it as like a hit. 242 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: It was a it was a massacre. Yeah. Abigail Folger 243 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: herself was stabbed twenty eight times. Uh, and then see 244 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: bringing Furkowski in addition to being stabbed, were also shot 245 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: and obviously Sharon Tate's unborn child was you know, killed 246 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: in this process as well. Uh. And supposedly and this 247 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: is a direct quote apparently, I guess from the trial, um, 248 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: the directive from Charles Manson. And if you don't know this, 249 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: I guess we should go ahead and say Charles Manson um. 250 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: Even though later on other people said that Tex Watson 251 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: was more acting on his own and misunderstood Manson's directive. 252 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: But Charles Manson ordered these killings, um, which we'll get into. 253 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: But he told Watson supposedly totally destroy everyone in that 254 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: house as gruesome as you can. So in addition to 255 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: the to the mutilation of the bodies um, and like 256 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: post mortem stab wounds, there was stuff written on the 257 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: wall and their blood like pig and uh, well I 258 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: think pig was the only thing written on the wall 259 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: at this one, right on the front door, which is 260 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: a obviously was a reference to cops at the time, right, 261 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and they wrote it and Sharon takes blood, right, So 262 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: pig is on the door and blood. Um. The perpetrators 263 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: got away, the Manson family got away. They made it 264 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: back to I think the Spawn Ranch, which is one 265 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: of the places they were staying. So then two nights 266 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: later Manson orders the family to go do it again. 267 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: He's he actually said that they according to texts and 268 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: and the rest of them, he actually said that they'd 269 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: done it wrong. They had created panic and fear in 270 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: these people, and they needed to do it right this time. 271 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: But to go go out and butcher another family. And 272 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: he took him to a house and it was a 273 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: house next door to this house that the Manson family 274 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: used to party at. Um it was a friend of 275 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: one of Manson's record producer friends. And next door was 276 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: just a normal, unassuming couple who had, from what I understand, 277 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: no interaction with the Manson's at any point in time. 278 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: Um it was this couple named Leno and Rosemary Labianka, 279 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: and they were just about his middle class, upper middle 280 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: class America establishment as you could get. Yeah, he was 281 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: actually lived less than two miles from this house. It 282 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: was in uh the Lows Fieless neighborhood, and just the 283 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: night before they had had a party at this news 284 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: house who And the reason he didn't want to go 285 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: back to that house is because he thought maybe it 286 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: could be tied back to him in some way because 287 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: he was there the night before. So they just randomly 288 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: picked the neighbor. Uh. And there was six of the 289 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: followers there, the original four from the Tate House plus 290 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: Leslie van Houghton and Clem Grogan I think it was 291 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: his name. Uh, And yeah it was. It was talking 292 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: about wrong place, wrong time. They were just in there, 293 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: joining their evening, and um Manson did break. He was, actually, 294 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: like you said, there for this one, whereas he wasn't 295 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: even there for the Tate one. And he took part 296 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: in the tying up. Uh. But then he left, which 297 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: very cowardly left. And this whole thing just reeks of cowardice, like, 298 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: go do my dirty work for me, kind of in 299 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: most of these cases. Right. So they tie up the 300 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: la Bianca's um. They murdered them brutally again. Um. They 301 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: carved war in Mr la Bianca's stomach um with a knife. 302 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: They left of the knife sticking out of his neck. 303 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: They left a fork sticking out of his stomach. It 304 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: was just another really gruesome scene. And then again in 305 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: blood they wrote they wrote things around the house like, um, 306 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: they wrote political No, they wrote um pigs again. Yeah, 307 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: they were death to pigs. They wrote they misspelled it. 308 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: They wrote helter skelter, which we'll get into that was 309 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: a Beatles song, which factor is in pretty heavily. Uh. 310 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: And then there wrote Rise and the whole notion here 311 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: and we'll cover this in detail more later too, was 312 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: that Manson was trying to, or at least he says, 313 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: he was trying to ignite a race war and have 314 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: it um appear that black people and and maybe even 315 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: black panthers had killed these white people, which would and 316 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: then turn spark a race war. They would all kill 317 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: each other and the Manson And the reason I'm laughing 318 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: is because it's just so ridiculously impulse implausible, and that 319 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: then the Manson family would be the only people left 320 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: and they could rule the world. Yeah, that was supposedly 321 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: the whole thing behind Helterskelter. So the cops in l A, 322 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: the the Sheriff's Department and the l A cops have 323 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: um two different murder scenes that are obviously related, but 324 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: early on they didn't they didn't connect them yet. It 325 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: took it took a minute, but once they did, these 326 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: two murders came to be known as the Tate la 327 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: Bianca murders. Before anyone knew who the Manson family was, 328 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: and it was a big deal. Um, but you have 329 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: to go back even further to understand what's going on 330 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: and to understand the eventual prosecution of the Manson family 331 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: to another murder, and we will dive into that one 332 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: after this. Okay, Chuck. So everybody knows about the Tate 333 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: La Bianca murders, so much so that they're frequently called 334 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: the Manson family murders. But it turns out that the 335 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: Manson family was already involved in another previous murder um 336 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks before the Tate and La Bianca 337 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: murders happened. I think in like late July of nineteen 338 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: sixty nine, right, yeah, I mean there was one other 339 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: murder and an attempted murder and then and not quite 340 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: attempted murder also right. Uh. So that the one you're 341 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: talking about, I think is probably Gary Henman, who uh 342 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: he was, Well, why don't you go and explain how 343 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: he fit into this whole thing? Okay? So Gary Henman 344 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: was a music teacher, um who was a friend of 345 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: the Manson family. I don't think he ever was considered 346 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: like a Manson family member, but he was a buddy 347 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: of them, um and he either had a trust fund 348 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: coming or there was a rumor that he he had 349 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: access to a trust fund of like twenty thousand dollars, 350 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: and so the Manson family went over to rob him. 351 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: I think Bobby Bosley was the leader of that um, 352 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: and they went over to rob him. Or he had 353 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: supply the Manson family with a bunch of mescal and 354 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: that they in turn sold to a motorcycle gang that 355 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: was not happy that when it turned out the mescaline 356 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: was bad who wanted their money back. So the Manson 357 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: family had gone to go get their money back from 358 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: this guy, and apparently he had said, like, I don't 359 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: have any money, but here, I'll sign over the title 360 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: of my cars to you. Here are the keys um 361 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: And at this point they had him tied up and 362 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm not entirely certain why, but Charles Manson, and this 363 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: is widely agreed upon, I think even by Manson himself, 364 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: that Manson came over to the house to basically assist 365 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: in in like getting this guy to cough up his money. 366 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what it was. And he took a sword 367 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: and chopped off part of the guy's ear. Yeah, and 368 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: depending on who you believe, some say Manson actually ended 369 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: up killing him. Other people say that Bobby Bosliel ended 370 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: up stabbing him to death. Uh, Manson was on the 371 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: scene for this one though, which was different than the 372 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: other murders, and uh guess it just depends on who 373 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: you believe it was. Bussola was eventually arrested while driving 374 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: that car of Henman's, so um him instead Busy Little's 375 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: in jail. And uh, you have to actually go back 376 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: even further to find the first at least attempted murder 377 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: by the Manson family, um earlier in July, on July one. 378 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: This is just a bad jam if you really start 379 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: thinking about, like all these dates are so compressed, and 380 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: you think about the Manson family just being in this 381 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: crazy like murderous kill spree and it really only went 382 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: for like a month basically, you know, four or five 383 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: weeks um. But they did a lot of damage in 384 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: that time. But the whole thing started, and you can 385 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: make the case and a lot of people do that. 386 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: The whole thing, everything else that followed actually started on 387 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: July one, when Charles Manson went to the apartment of 388 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: a syndicate drug dealer, like a big time drug dealer 389 00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: named um Bernard. Lots of Papa Crow right. Yeah, and uh, 390 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: the Manson thought that he might have been a black panther. 391 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't think that was ever confirmed. I read a 392 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: lot of articles kind of going back and forth. But um, regardless, 393 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: Manson thought he was a black panther. There was a 394 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: double crossing deal that went on, and they went over 395 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: and Manson actually shot Crow and thought he had killed him, 396 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: but he did not die. And he did not go 397 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: to the cops because he you know, what do you 398 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: do go to the cops and say, hey, a double 399 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: crossed these weirdo rednecks hippies. No, they double crossed him. 400 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: They double crossed him. Oh see I read that he 401 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: double cross them. No, that's why no, Tex Watson, Well, 402 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: either way, he would not go to the cops, uh, 403 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: in his condition, and so that's why it was never reported. 404 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: But he was interviewed. Uh. The transcript is pretty interesting 405 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and he wouldn't 406 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: go to the cops because he would just handle it himself. 407 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: And that's basically what he vowed to do. So there's 408 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: this guy who Manson shot in the gut and left 409 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: for dead, who now wants to kill Manson and the 410 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: whole family and that Manson is convinced as a black panther, 411 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: which suddenly makes sense as to why you would have 412 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: found something like political piggies and a Paul print in 413 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: blood at Gary Heman's murder scene, right, because this is 414 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: about the time that this whole helter skelter thing is 415 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: happening starting out and um, the whole idea that that 416 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: there is a race war coming and that the Manson 417 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: family might be able to nudge it along by framing um, 418 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: the black community or black panthers for these murders of 419 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: white people. Uh, is the basis of this idea of 420 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: what was behind the Manson family murders as far as 421 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: the prosecution is concerned. Yeah, so I mentioned an almost 422 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: um attempted murder jumping back forward again the very night 423 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: of the The idea of the night of the Lobbianca 424 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: murders was to have two separate murders on the same night, 425 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: and Manson ordered a few I think different followers, including 426 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: Linda Kasabian, to murder this um kind of little known 427 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: Lebanese actor named Saladine Nadar, and Kasabian basically got there, 428 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: didn't want to do this and so intentionally knocked on 429 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: the wrong door of the apartment, um, basically giving her 430 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: an excuse to get out of there. So um. Weirdly, 431 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: Saladine and Nadir was never it was a near victim 432 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: of the Manson family. So that's talk about it. Talk 433 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: about a close call, yeah for real, you know, yeah, uh. 434 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: And I looked him up. He he basically was a 435 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: famous actor by that time, and then just didn't do 436 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: much after that. So I wonder if that had if 437 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: that like just broke his brain or something, you know, 438 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it would have done that 439 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: to me. Alright, So I think it's about time for 440 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: another ad break. Let's do it, all right, we'll be 441 00:25:51,040 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: right back after this, all right, Chuck, we're back. Should 442 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: we talk about Charles Manson a little bit? Yeah? Less so, like, well, 443 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: let's recap real quick, Okay. Manson has shot um lots 444 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: of Papa Crow in his stomach, lots of pop Crow, 445 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: has vowed to kill the whole Man's of family. Bobby 446 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: Bosle killed Gary Henman, tried to frame the Black Panthers 447 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: by writing political piggies and blood on the wall. Bobby 448 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: bos Is arrested Um. The Manson family supposedly trying to 449 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: make it look like somebody besides Bobby bos might have 450 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: killed Gary Henman. Um, kill the people at the Tate Residents, 451 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: kill the people at the La Bianca Residents, right, things 452 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: like political piggis and rise and pig in blood on 453 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: the walls there, and and that's where we've left off 454 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: so far. The Manson family hasn't been caught yet. Let's 455 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: talk about Charles Manson, all right. So Manson, UM, it's 456 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: sort of mixed up on what you want to believe 457 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: because a lot of the information about his life came 458 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: from him, and anyone who knows anything about Charles Manson 459 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: knows that he had a tendency to overstate things and 460 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: uh certainly lie about things. But what we do know 461 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: is that he was born in nineteen thirty four to 462 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: a to a teen mom and dad, and the dad 463 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: basically um would not assume any fraternity or responsibility, sort 464 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: of split. His name was colonel, his actual name was colonel, 465 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and he convinced people that he was an army colonel 466 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: even though he was not. So he was just never 467 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: on the scene at all. And um he ended up 468 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: taking the name Manson from his stepfather who you know. 469 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: His his mom married, She was an alcoholic, may have 470 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: been a prostitute. She was in and out of jail 471 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: for most of her life and uh or most of 472 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: his young life. And it was just, you know, a 473 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: truly bad scene for a young Charles Manson. So he 474 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: he actually um went and lived with relatives while she 475 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: was in jail for a five year stretch. She got out, 476 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: they reunited, he said. He apparently said that reuniting with 477 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: there was one of the few truly joyful moments in 478 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: his life. But in very short order, she basically was like, 479 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: I can't take care of you. I don't really want 480 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: this responsibility and handed him over to the state, which begun, 481 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: which began a just basically a string of institutionalization that 482 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: would that would keep going for basic basically his whole life. Yeah, 483 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: I mean by the time he was eventually sent to 484 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,719 Speaker 1: federal prison, I think he was thirty two years old 485 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: when he was released in sixty seven, and they calculated 486 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: that he had spent half of his life uh in 487 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: and out of institutions, whether it would be orphanages or 488 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: um juvie or real deal prison in jail, right, And 489 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: that was just the first part of his life, So 490 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: he was out for two years before they got him 491 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: again after these murders. By the time he died in 492 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: prison at ag A d three this past November two seventeen, 493 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: he had spent from my calculations, only thirteen years of 494 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: his life as a freeman, thirteen out of eighty three 495 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: years outside of institutions. So he had a lot of 496 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: the deck stacked against him. But you can also go 497 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: back to I think March nineteen sixty seven when he 498 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: was released on parole um from federal prison, where he 499 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: was given a choice like, hey man, here you go. 500 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: You're out. You can decide what to do with your life. 501 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: Do you want to go straight, do you want to 502 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: go have a nice family, Do you want to just 503 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: be a productive member of society, or are you going 504 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: to go the exact opposite direction. And as we know 505 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: in hindsight, Charlie Manson chose the exact opposite direction. It's 506 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if he was ever officially diagnosed um, 507 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: but I did see that that doctors over the years 508 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: and mental health professionals say that he was probably schizophrenic. 509 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: Uh suffered from schizophrenia and had a paranoid delusional disorder 510 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: at the very least, I hadn't heard the schizophrenia thing. 511 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: Paranoid delusional disorder totally buy Yeah, so he was. He 512 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: was a troubled dude. UM of course, not excusing anything, 513 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: but it was clearly a case of um mental illness 514 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: combined with rejection and institutionalization. UM really led to like 515 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: the man that he would eventually become right. So he 516 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: gets out of prison right and he um is basically 517 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: released into San Francisco seven. So it's like Hippie Dum, 518 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Hippie Dum, where he shows up and 519 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: there's you know, at the time, everybody's looking for like 520 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: something new, something different, something that's an alternative to the 521 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: establishment of the mainstream or anything different. And so Charles 522 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: Manson says like, oh I can, I can totally exploit 523 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: a lot of these people Um, and that he starts 524 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: out by meeting a girl, a librarian named Mary Bruner, 525 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: and he moves into her apartment and she apparently was 526 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: very fascinated with him because she had led a fairly 527 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: straight laced life. She went to college again, she was 528 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: a librarian, and all of a sudden there's this wild 529 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: like X con who is preaching this kind of gospel 530 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: of love and no materials, um, and apparently before November night, 531 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: which will explain what happened then before that time, Um, 532 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: Charles Manson supposedly did pretty closely resemble an actual hippie 533 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: like he did. He he felt like he could take 534 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: anything of yours that he wanted, but you could also 535 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: take anything of his. And he apparently walked the walk 536 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,239 Speaker 1: when it came to stuff like that, And there are 537 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: plenty of stories of him just giving up whatever um 538 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: material possessions, saying they didn't matter, um, before things really 539 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: took a dark turn. So there's if you really kind 540 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: of dive in, it becomes clear how he could have 541 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: amassed some of these early followers. And the first one 542 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: was was Mary Bruner. Yeah. I get the feeling that, um, 543 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: this probably would not have happened in any other era 544 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: other than this generation when um, you know we talked 545 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: about in our Brainwashing in our Cults episodes, where this 546 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: time it was just it's just a weird time in 547 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: America and people were really um, I don't know about prone, 548 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: but at least ripe for the picking when it comes 549 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: to falling into uh situations, like this and believing these 550 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: what looked like crack pots to us now, but at 551 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: the time everyone was. It was very anti establishment. People 552 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: were taking tons of drugs and rejecting rejecting mainstream society 553 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: and embracing the counterculture, and they were just really open 554 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: to all kinds of weird stuff. So he again, he 555 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: just kind of figured out that he could he could 556 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: work this to his own means. So there's a couple 557 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: of things that there's there's two basic things that you 558 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: needed to know about Charles Manson from from everything I've seen. 559 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: One was that his main goal was to become a 560 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: recording artist, a very successful star of a recording artist. 561 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: And two that he could he had a good ability 562 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: to manipulate people into giving him what he wanted um 563 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: and mostly that that amounted to sex and drugs um. 564 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: And he used that ability to get other people to 565 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: do what he wanted. So, for example, when he started 566 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: to a mass like a substantial amount of girls in 567 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: the Manson family, um, it was it was just a 568 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: free love commune the whole time. So the guys who 569 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: came in all of a sudden had access to these 570 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: the women, and in return um for Charlie granting them 571 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: access to them. They would basically do his bidding or 572 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: offer him physical protection because he wasn't a big guy. 573 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: He's kind of a shrimpy dude. Um. But they're everything 574 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: from from If you look at it from an outsider's perspective, 575 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: every relationship be had was one of extraction. He was 576 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: taking something from everyone around him. It wasn't just a 577 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: normal friendship or a normal relationship. It was it was 578 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: what can you do for me? And what can I 579 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: use from you to to get something out of other people. Yeah, 580 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: and if if you've never seen an interview with him, 581 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: I encourage you to check some of them out. He 582 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: does have a very um stream of consciousness, circular sort 583 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: of talks NonStop and doesn't make a lot of sense, 584 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: but um. One thing that's often said about him is 585 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: that he can be mesmerizing um with the way he 586 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: does that. And I imagine in the late sixties, if 587 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: you've got a headful of acid and there's this guy 588 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: that has the ability to like almost rebreathe like a 589 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: trumpet player and talk for minutes and minutes and hours 590 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: on end, they could be kind of you know, they 591 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: would fall under this weird spell. So I definitely don't 592 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: get it because now when I watch him on again, 593 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: tiny weird redneck. Um, but when you you know, when 594 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,800 Speaker 1: you see him doing a thing, even with like Diane Sawyer, 595 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: who doesn't fall for it. By the way, she she 596 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: clearly is just like very it's a great interview. She's 597 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: pro and she stays very on point, basically kind of 598 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: like you're not gonna get me to like fall through 599 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: your charms. Uh, but but it's pretty interesting. Um. So 600 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,919 Speaker 1: he's got Mary Bruner is this first girlfriend. Then he said, hey, 601 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: what do you think about a triad? Or rather, what 602 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 1: do you think about a triad? That's how he sounded. 603 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: And um, Mary Brunner, from what I understand, wasn't super 604 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: into it, but she was under his spell, so she 605 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: said sure. Uh so Squeaky from Lynette Squeaky from came 606 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: into the picture, and um, they you know, they lived 607 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: as a as a threson that traveled together up and 608 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: down the coast out there, and he just sort of 609 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: started accumulating mostly women along the way to this sort 610 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: of traveling party is probably how he framed it, and 611 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: people were hipped to it. There were men though, um, 612 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: besides Tex Watson and Bobby Busslil those guy named Danny 613 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: de Carlo who were kind of early men who joined up. 614 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: And by all accounts, most of those men who joined 615 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: up were there because Manson was said, you know, you 616 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: can have these women. You've got plenty of drugs. And 617 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: so before you know it, the Manson family was born 618 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: and they were just kind of this weirdo hippie group 619 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: that um used to commit burglary. These Manson there has 620 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: long been um. It's long been said that he beat 621 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the women in the group and would 622 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: prostitute them to for cash to pay for things for 623 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: the family, like rent um. They they ate a lot 624 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: of their food from like going through dumpsters behind grocery 625 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: stores and stuff like that. And they just basically hung 626 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: out and did drugs and had sex all day. That 627 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: was basically their aim and their goal. And then at 628 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: night they would have bonfires out in the desert and um, 629 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: they'd all just take a bunch of acid and listen 630 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: to Charles Manson do his mesmerizing thing. Um. And again 631 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: at first it was it was weird. There's a lot 632 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: of like ideas that Manson was this reincarnation of Jesus Christ, 633 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: or that he was not even the reincarnated Jesus Christ. 634 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: He was the same Jesus Christ who had been alive 635 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: for you know, almost two thousand years um. And just 636 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: like all the stuff you would find in the desert 637 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: among hippies in the late sixties, On I said, at 638 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: night around a bonfire, right but when when um, by 639 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: this time, like by the time they're out in the desert, 640 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: Manson had had this really amazing chance encounter that you 641 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: just would never have and the fact that it did 642 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: happen is just totally mind blowing. But become a recording artist. 643 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: To help ensure his success of becoming a recording artst 644 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: he moved the family from San Francisco down to Los 645 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: Angeles to be closer to the center of the recording industry. 646 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: And it just so happened that one night in nineteen UM, 647 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: a couple of Manson family girls were hitch hiking on 648 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard and we're picked up by none other than 649 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: Dennis will And Wilson, one of the co founders of 650 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: the Beach Boys. That's right, it was sixty nine, but 651 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: same same deal. All those years just ran together back then. Uh, 652 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: and Dennis Wilson was, Um, he was a party, party 653 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: dude and liked his ladies. Because it sounds very weird 654 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: to say that he picked up a cup of hitchhikers 655 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 1: and basically brought them home. But um, it was a 656 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: different time, and uh, he was, like I said, he 657 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 1: was a party dude. So they ended up being Ella, 658 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: Joe Bailey and the aforementioned Patricia Crinwinkle. So they move 659 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: in basically, and he goes to the studio, comes home 660 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: and the Manson family had moved in, which again it 661 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: sounds really strange, but at the time he I mean 662 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: Ed says he was frightened at I get the feeling. 663 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: He was more like, you know, what trip are you on? 664 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: Not like, oh my god, I need to call the cops. Yeah, 665 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: he um, because they lived there for a while, like 666 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: he let them live there. Yeah. I think the party 667 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: it was partially out of fear. I saw and I 668 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: read an interview with Charles Manson. He was talking about 669 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: Dennis Wilson, and he was like, you know, I'd say whatever, 670 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: he just lay his weirdo trip on Dennis Wilson, and 671 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: Dennis is responsibly like, yeah, man, that's cool. Listen, look, 672 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: I gotta go, I really gotta go do this thing. 673 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: Just always trying to get away from Charles man Inson. 674 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: So maybe he was afraid that he was they were 675 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: going to kill him. Maybe he liked having access to 676 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: like all this free love from all the Manson family 677 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: women um, or maybe he just felt like he couldn't 678 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: get out of it. But he uh, he did let 679 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: them live there for a few months. It wasn't like 680 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: they crashed there for a weekend. They moved in, they 681 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: wrecked his ferrari um, they they met a bunch of 682 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: his friends. It was it was a big It was 683 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: a big deal that that Dennis Wilson came into Charles 684 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: Manson's life because it really bolstered this idea that, yes, 685 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: he is going to become a recording artist. Because not 686 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: only did he hang out with Dennis Wilson, he hung 687 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: out with a guy named Terry Melcher who was a 688 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: record producer, hung out with another guy named Phil Kaufman 689 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: who was a record producer, and he met all these 690 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: people in the industry who were in a position to 691 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: get Charles Manson's career off of the ground. And when 692 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,760 Speaker 1: when there's you're dealing with this this crazy little ticking 693 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: time bomb like Charles Manson, who wants you to do 694 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: something like get his musical career off the ground, but 695 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: you don't think his music is good enough to actually launch. Um, 696 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: you've got a problem on your hands. And Dennis Wilson 697 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: and his buddies all knew this, yes, And uh, two 698 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: quick things here. One big shout out to Dennis Wilson's 699 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: only solo album, Pacific Ocean Blue. Is it good? And 700 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: I think it's great. I gotta check that out. And 701 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: I love the Beach Boys. I mean he Dennis Wilson 702 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: was was clearly not the the brains or voice behind 703 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: the Beach Boys as the drummer, but U and he 704 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,240 Speaker 1: was always sort of, um, I think, kind of picked 705 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: on a little bit for not being the most talented dude. 706 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: And he was just in the band because he was 707 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: handsome and related. But um, I think Pacific Ocean Blue 708 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: is like one of the great lost classics. Let's check 709 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: it out. It's very good. He was supposedly also the 710 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: only true surfer in the band. Yeah, exactly. Uh. And 711 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: the other thing was that Terry Melcher, that producer that 712 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: you mentioned. The reason he factors in so heavily is 713 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: because he actually lived at the Tate House in Beverly 714 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: Hills before Tate and then moved in, So that was 715 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: sort of the connection there. Um, I guess Manson was 716 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: going to kill him right now. So here is what 717 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people think. They think that again, he 718 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: was sending a message to Terry Melcher saying, I can't 719 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: kill you, but I can get close to you. And 720 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: I know you're gonna hear about this because this happened 721 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: at the house you were living in a month or 722 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: so before. I'm just gonna go in and have my 723 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: people indiscriminately slaughter whoever is there. But this is this 724 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: is you, this is what's going on. He he supposedly 725 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: was well aware that Terry Melcher didn't live there any longer, 726 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: because he'd spoken to the guy who actually owned the 727 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: house and was asking him where Terry Melcher went, and 728 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: all the guy would tell him was Malibu, So he 729 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: knew it wasn't Melcher in that house. And alright, so 730 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: they eventually leave Dennis Wilson's house. Dennis Wilson's like, you 731 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: guys are great and all the ladies are nice. The 732 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: acid is decent, but it's time for you to go. 733 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: So they live. Uh they leave in night still and 734 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: um he uh they go to Spawn Ranch, which you 735 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier s P A h N. And this was 736 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: a it's kind of weird that they ended up living here, 737 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: but it was. It was out in kind of the 738 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: outskirts of l A. There are lots of ranches like 739 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: the Disney Ranch at the Universal Ranch where they shoot 740 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, and they have old sets that 741 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: are still there, whether it's uh Mash or Planet of 742 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: the Apes or um, just an old West set. And 743 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: Spawn Ranch was one of these that had closed down, 744 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: and it was an old West set and they actually, 745 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: um it's a state park now. But they did have 746 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: permission to live there. They didn't just uh squat there. 747 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: They uh sort of had a little agreement to do 748 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,760 Speaker 1: a little maintenance work, uh and they were allowed to stay. 749 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: So some of them are there, some of them are 750 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 1: at places like at a camp in Death Valley, and 751 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: then just scattered all over l A as far as 752 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: Manson family members and just random houses in a artments. 753 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: But the main place that that Manson in the Inner 754 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: Circle was it Spawn Ranch, and they would go on 755 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: what they called creepy crawls, which where these little crimes 756 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: Freeze would like you said, they would go out and 757 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: burgle cars or robbed people and um, just to kind 758 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: of keep the money and the drugs flowing, right um. 759 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: And so Spawn Ranch was almost like a little more legit. 760 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: They were in much closer contact with other people out 761 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: in Death Valley at the Barker Ranch. That was far 762 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: more secluded, way out in the desert, way more disconnected 763 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: from society, and that was the place where they expected 764 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: to wait out helter skelter while the the um everybody 765 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: else in the country killed one another. That's right. So, um, 766 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: you've got this whole, this whole weirdo family there. They're criminals, 767 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: they're engaged in prostitution. There's violence, you know, there's physical violence. 768 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: But ultimately there they kind of resemble hippies. Here they're 769 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: super counter culture. Um. But things turned dark, and they 770 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: turned dark after this seminal thing that happened to the 771 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,240 Speaker 1: rest of the world but really really spoke to Charles 772 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: Manson in particular, and that was the November twenty two 773 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: release of the Beatles White album all Right, you know 774 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: what this is gonna be a two parter. It's pretty clear. Uh, 775 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: so let's go ahead and in this one on a 776 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: cliffhanger featuring the Beatles. Right, does that sound good? Yeah? 777 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: It does. Um pick back up part two with a 778 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: white album. Let's do it all right? All right? Well, 779 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: in the meantime, while you guys are chewing over what 780 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: Chuck just said, uh, you can tweet to us at 781 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: s Y s K podcast or on Facebook dot com 782 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,839 Speaker 1: slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an 783 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,240 Speaker 1: email the Stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com 784 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: and as always, joined us at at home on the 785 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: web Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on 786 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: this thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com. 787 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,239 Speaker 1: M hm hm