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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And in this episode, we'll

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Speaker 2: get to hear Chuck do a Scottish accent a lot. Wow.

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Speaker 1: I haven't really thought about that. I do love that

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Speaker 1: Libby helped us with this, how she titled it. Um,

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Speaker 1: which I think I'm titling it something like that. But

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Speaker 1: she titled it Golf, colon, Spoiling Good Walks Since 1457.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard that phrase?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Samuel Clements.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how to spoil a good walk or whatever, something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty funny. They get it. Golf is hard.

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Speaker 2: I have a question for you. Are you into golf

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Speaker 2: at all?

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Speaker 1: You're being coy. I have been playing golf since I

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Speaker 1: was 13, but I took, like, 25 years off uh

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Speaker 1: from like kind of post-college to when i moved back

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Speaker 1: to atlanta um played maybe once or twice a year

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Speaker 1: during that time but then have gotten uh really started

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Speaker 1: playing again in 2020 uh during covid and but still

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Speaker 1: very casually but then like six months ago started really

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Speaker 1: getting into it again and like trying to get better

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Speaker 1: for the first time yeah how's it going I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's very hard. Emily asked me why I love golf

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Speaker 1: so much, and that's why, because golf is really, really hard.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so when you do it well, it feels like

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Speaker 1: you've achieved something.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what I love about it. It's really, really, really,

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Speaker 1: really hard, and I like trying things sometimes that are really,

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Speaker 1: really hard.

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Speaker 2: You know what they call that? The love of the game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's right. And you were kind enough to let

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Speaker 1: me make this announcement now as I'm dipping my toe

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Speaker 1: back into the podcast world. You know, I haven't done

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Speaker 1: anything like that since Movie Crush went away. And friend

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Speaker 1: of the show and friend of ours in real life,

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Speaker 1: Adam Pranica of The Greatest Generation. Adam is a golfer

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Speaker 1: and we play golf together and we text about it

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Speaker 1: all the time. I was like, we should do a

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Speaker 1: golf podcast, like a fun and funny one. And try

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Speaker 1: and build like a community around it because most golf

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Speaker 1: podcasts are like kind of serious or instructional.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And I said, there's not a lot of shows out

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Speaker 1: there for guys like us that are like not great

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Speaker 1: at it. Like average golfers who just sort of the

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Speaker 1: absurdity of the sport. And Adam was in. And so

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Speaker 1: we're doing a new show.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome. I predict you guys will make a great pair.

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Speaker 1: I hope so. Yeah, it's called three putt bogey. And

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Speaker 1: we think that's kind of a fun and funny name that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of one of the worst things

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Speaker 1: that can happen on a golf course. That means you

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Speaker 1: have like on a par three, for example, you've hit

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Speaker 1: a great tee shot onto the green. You got a

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Speaker 1: shot at birdie, but you put it three times instead

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Speaker 1: for a bogey. So that really kind of sums up

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Speaker 1: where we are in our game. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: very relatable. And it's out now. It released on, I think,

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Speaker 1: episode one was Friday, September 25th. So you can go

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Speaker 1: out and listen to it right now wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. And also follow us on socials, 3 Putt

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Speaker 1: Bogey Podcast on Instagram. We're going to have lots of

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Speaker 1: fun content on there.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a great name.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. Well, I mean, we hope it gets across like

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Speaker 1: what it is, which is, again, average guys having a

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Speaker 1: good time. What we're hoping to do is build a

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Speaker 1: community of, like, support. Because, like I said, it's a

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Speaker 1: hard game and, like, you know. The worst thing you

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Speaker 1: can do is go and play golf with people that

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Speaker 1: are like really want to beat you or like want

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Speaker 1: to gamble at golf and stuff. Like that's not my deal.

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Speaker 1: Adam and I are both kind of like cheerleaders when

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Speaker 1: we play with each other and with friends.

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Speaker 2: Do you dress like cheerleaders when you play?

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Speaker 1: Well, sometimes on Fridays.

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Speaker 2: That's cool. I think that's definitely the better way to

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Speaker 2: go is to do that rather than be like you

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Speaker 2: remember that one. Character on the pit who was hospitalized

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Speaker 2: because he did too much cocaine and drank too much

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Speaker 2: and blacked out and tried to kill somebody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the golfer. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's who I think of when you're describing the type

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Speaker 2: of golfer you just did. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not me. Like, if you want to

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Speaker 1: go out there and play for money and really compete

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Speaker 1: against your friends, that's great if that's your deal. But

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Speaker 1: we're trying to build a show that's fun and encouraging,

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Speaker 1: and I hope people give it a shot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So maybe leave your fleece vest at the door

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Speaker 2: when you listen to your podcast. That's right.

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Speaker 1: But all this to say, we are about to start

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Speaker 1: an episode here in three, two, one about the history

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Speaker 1: of golf, because I think it's fairly interesting. It is.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I found quite interesting about it

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Speaker 2: is that it has not only some unclear origins. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who just kind of say whatever

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Speaker 2: they want about the history of golf and it gets

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Speaker 2: spread around. It's like, yep, that's the history. And thankfully

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Speaker 2: we have great writers and researchers like Livia to be like, actually,

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Speaker 2: that's not true at all, which is one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite things to do. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think some of the confusion comes in because

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Speaker 1: like many, many ancient places had games that involved hitting

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Speaker 1: a ball with a stick and Yeah. Sometimes into a hole.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's very easy for someone to say like, hey,

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Speaker 1: in ancient Rome, they had a game called Paganica. And

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Speaker 1: that was that was the first golf or someone might say, yeah, no.

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Speaker 1: In China, they had a game called Chui Wan or

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Speaker 1: hit ball and they had rules like golf. And so

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Speaker 1: it was kind of like golf. But I think we

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Speaker 1: can mostly agree that like golf, as we know, it started,

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Speaker 1: of course, in Scotland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the stories goes that it was

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Speaker 2: bored Scottish shepherds who were like, let me use my

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Speaker 2: shepherd's hook to bat some rocks toward a hole in

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Speaker 2: the ground. That's probably not correct either. What they think,

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Speaker 2: at the very least what Livia thinks, is that— The

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Speaker 2: word golf, at least, if not golf itself, can actually

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Speaker 2: be found in Holland. And this isn't where, like, golf

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Speaker 2: comes from. I'm not trying to rewrite history here or

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Speaker 2: shake the boat. Everybody knows that, yes, like you said,

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Speaker 2: golf came from Scotland. But it's possible that the inspiration

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Speaker 2: for golf in Scotland came from there. At the very least,

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Speaker 2: it's almost certain that the word golf came from the Dutch.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Except it was C-O-L-F. That was a game

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Speaker 1: that at least that word was recorded in 1297 that

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Speaker 1: did involve hitting balls into holes. It was probably a

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Speaker 1: little more like cricket. But golf had other spellings throughout

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Speaker 1: the years. G-O-U-F-F.

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Speaker 2: G-O-I-F-F.

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Speaker 1: G-O-I-F-F. G-O-W-F-F. G-O-L-P-H.

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Speaker 2: Golf.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You've seen Caddyshack, right? I know you're not

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Speaker 1: into golf, but have you seen that movie?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have. I'm more of a Happy Gilmore fan,

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Speaker 2: meaning it's one of my favorite movies. But Happy Gilmore 2? No, sir.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know there was a second one.

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Speaker 2: Oh, just wipe it from your memory that there is

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Speaker 2: a second Happy Gilmore.

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Speaker 1: All right. Will Ferrell has that new show too.

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Speaker 2: What new show? A golf show?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's called Hawk.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea golf was so popular.

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Speaker 1: It's super popular right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know if you knew because it's kind

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Speaker 1: of come and gone as far as like, I think

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Speaker 1: it's like peak popularity.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really? I actually didn't know that. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: it had ever gone. I thought it was always generally

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Speaker 2: widely and wildly popular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's always been pretty popular. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've got some stats for you if you want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, lay them on me.

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Speaker 1: Golf is 48 million Americans participate.

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Speaker 2: There's only 50. It is.

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Speaker 1: A.

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Speaker 1: Guess how much just United States annual economic effect golf

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Speaker 1: has in the United States.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, I'm going to say it's in the billions,

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Speaker 2: but I have no guess between.

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Speaker 1: $ 226 billion.

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Speaker 2: That is not what I was going to guess.

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Speaker 1: Responsible for 1.65 million jobs. Wow. $ 80 billion in wages

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Speaker 1: in the U.S. And this is because, you know, golf

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Speaker 1: gets a bad rap because it's sort of an environmental

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Speaker 1: nightmare in a lot of ways. Yeah. So I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to highlight some of the good things. Sure. But golf,

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Speaker 1: $ 4. 6 billion annual in charitable contributions generated through golf, which

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Speaker 1: is more than all other pro sports combined. Oh, wow.

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Speaker 2: That's a great one, too. Nice work.

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Speaker 1: Which is pretty good. But jumping back to Caddyshack, I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that because there's that one great line from Ted

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Speaker 1: Knight when he's talking about the history of golf. He says,

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Speaker 1: but it was golf without the L.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The thing I remember is, of course, the baby Ruth

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Speaker 2: in the bottom of the pool.

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Speaker 1: Right. Of course.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah. So we've got at least the word golf

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Speaker 2: from the Dutch. But golf, as we spell it today, G-O-L-F,

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Speaker 2: that was around the mid-1400s. And this is when people, well,

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Speaker 2: maybe not the mid-1400s, at least within the next hundred years,

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Speaker 2: People started golfing in Scotland, doing what we would recognize

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Speaker 2: as golf today. Like I have this stick or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and I have another one to do, to like drive with.

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Speaker 2: I have one to putt with essentially. I'm hitting a

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Speaker 2: ball and I'm trying to get it into a hole

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Speaker 2: and the hole's way over there. So like what you could,

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Speaker 2: if as a golfer, Chuck, you could show up in

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Speaker 2: 16th century Scotland and be like, let's play. And you

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Speaker 2: guys would generally be able to work it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, the earliest golf was sort of an urban version,

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Speaker 1: like where you played in the streets of the town. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they called that short golf. Um, but that was obviously

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Speaker 1: not the same as what they called long golf, which

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Speaker 1: was out in the pasture or a field. And we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that evolution a little bit more. But, you know,

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Speaker 1: we know for sure golf was a thing then because

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Speaker 1: in 1457, there was an act of parliament in Scotland

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Speaker 1: signed by King James II that outlawed golf and football

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Speaker 1: because he said there were pointless sports and you should

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Speaker 1: be practicing like archery or something instead. And then there

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Speaker 1: were also complaints about people playing golf instead of going

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Speaker 1: to church. And that's where I found this kind of

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Speaker 1: fun little thing called Sunday sticks, which was a sneaky

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Speaker 1: way to get some golf in. Apparently they would flip

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Speaker 1: over a golf club and hold it as a cane.

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Speaker 1: So you're holding like the head of the golf club

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Speaker 1: and walk around, pretend like as if you needed a cane.

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Speaker 1: And then you flip that thing over and you can

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Speaker 1: just play a quick hole of golf with it, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Man, you really have to love golf to try

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Speaker 2: to deceive your entire town.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and your Lord and Savior.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Jesus is like, I see you for what you are.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And quit using my name in vain out

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Speaker 1: there on the course.

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Speaker 2: Right. So that prohibition on golf from 1457, from King

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Speaker 2: James II, it apparently didn't take because in 1471 and 1491—

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Speaker 2: The Scottish Parliament said, like, stop playing golf. You're not

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Speaker 2: allowed to play golf. And it's probable that the golf

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Speaker 2: that they were referring to was short golf. Yeah. Which

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Speaker 2: is I don't I didn't catch how how much in

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Speaker 2: depth you went with short golf. Did you just mention it? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Just that, you know, they played it sort of in

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Speaker 1: town on the streets of like the village.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: That was a problem in and of itself because, you know,

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Speaker 2: you had glass windows and, you know, village people walking around.

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Speaker 2: So you don't want to hit them. But they were

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Speaker 2: probably banning short golf. Instead, if you were, say, aristocracy

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Speaker 2: and not like a working class person or a peasant

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Speaker 2: or something like that, you were like, OK, just ban

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Speaker 2: short golf. I'm going to play this new form called

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Speaker 2: long golf and I'm going to go play it in

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Speaker 2: the pasture lands.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Or a golfing ground. Or a lynx. And

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Speaker 1: that's where, you know, that's where that name first comes from.

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Speaker 1: Mainly around Scotland's east coast at the time. This is where,

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Speaker 1: you know, they weren't building a lot of buildings because

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Speaker 1: it was oceanside. It was pretty sandy. So there was,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was wide open land. Rabbits everywhere. Apparently

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Speaker 1: there's lore that rabbits may have, like rabbit holes were

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Speaker 1: some of the first golf holes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Not gophers. But. You know, some of these early terms

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Speaker 1: like links like had been around since the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: And also this idea that you go out to play

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Speaker 1: like nine holes in the back end on the back nine.

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Speaker 1: Like they were saying stuff like that. And they borrowed.

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Speaker 1: I never knew this. The term fairway, which if you

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about golf, when you tee off and

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Speaker 1: you hit it out there and hopefully the middle of

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Speaker 1: that green expanse that the middle of that green expanse

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Speaker 1: where the grass is the shortest is the fairway. And

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Speaker 1: that term is a sailing term, meaning the easiest direction

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Speaker 1: to go, which makes a lot of sense in terms

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Speaker 1: of golf.

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Speaker 2: For sure. So, OK, so we're in Scotland. It's the

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Speaker 2: 15th century. Parliament keeps trying to ban golf. The Scottish

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Speaker 2: people say no. And then finally, in 1502, they're like, fine,

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Speaker 2: we're going to lift the ban on golf. Everybody can

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Speaker 2: play golf. And the reason why is that not coincidentally,

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Speaker 2: James IV, who is the grandson of James II, who

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Speaker 2: was the first one to proclaim golf illegal. He went

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Speaker 2: to Perth in Scotland, not Australia, and he found out

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Speaker 2: about golf and he fell in love with it so much.

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Speaker 2: He came home with his own set of clubs and

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm into golf now. Let's all play golf

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's right. There are also apparently receipts of the king

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Speaker 1: purchasing clubs in Edinburgh and St. Andrew around the same time.

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Speaker 1: So the royals are getting into it. So that means

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Speaker 1: everyone else can.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Well, not quite everyone, as we'll see. But Mary, Queen

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Speaker 1: of Scots, the granddaughter of King James IV, she ruled

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Speaker 1: from 1542 to 1567. Apparently she was into golf and

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Speaker 1: is one of the first women to just have any

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Speaker 1: sort of impact on the game at all, especially early on.

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Speaker 1: And apparently her enemies used that against her. They would

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Speaker 1: spread rumors that she played just a few days after

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Speaker 1: her second husband died. And that obviously was a violation

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Speaker 1: of how someone was thought to like mourn or like

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Speaker 1: how someone should mourn rather, but also like a bit

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Speaker 1: of a smear campaign that's just like it's not an

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Speaker 1: appropriate game for ladies at the time. And look at

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Speaker 1: what Mary Queen of Scots is doing.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. I say we come back or take a break

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Speaker 2: and then come back and possibly, if we're lucky, we'll

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Speaker 2: talk a little more about the history of golf.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck. So we're back. And I think we kind

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Speaker 2: of have gotten across. It's really difficult to trace the

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Speaker 2: history of golf in any really legitimate manner and not

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Speaker 2: just make stuff up. That sounds cool. There are some

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Speaker 2: surviving documents that give us an idea of the early

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Speaker 2: contours of what golf was like. There's a textbook from

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Speaker 2: the 17th century, a diary from the 17th century, an

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Speaker 2: embarrassing poem from the 18th century. And a book of

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Speaker 2: golf instructions from the mid-19th century. And all of them

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Speaker 2: put together, kind of giving historians a pretty good view

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Speaker 2: on golf.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The poem I thought was pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: That was in 1743 by Thomas Matheson. And it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're writing a parody epic poem, and

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Speaker 1: it's called The Golf, G-O-F-F, as Ted Knight would love. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was a character, a goddess named Golfinia.

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Speaker 1: And it like that, that means it's pretty well in

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Speaker 1: the public like specter at this point.

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Speaker 2: Did you did you look that up? Oh, yeah. It's

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Speaker 2: a I mean, it is an epic poem about golf.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There's also that diary was by a guy named Thomas Kincaid,

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Speaker 2: who is a medical student at Edinburgh University, which we toured,

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Speaker 2: I think, at least some of their some parts of it.

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Speaker 2: But he was there in 1687. And he was like,

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Speaker 2: his diary was essentially like, I'm playing golf today and

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Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing. My swing's not so great.

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Speaker 2: I need to improve my swing. Here's how we handicap.

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Speaker 2: Here's what clubs are made of. Like, he was just

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Speaker 2: basically leaving a document for future historians that they couldn't

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Speaker 2: have asked for more than.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would have started his own podcast. Had that

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Speaker 1: been around at the time. But instead, he had a diary.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Which was very cool. And then, you know, there was

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Speaker 1: an instructional book called The Golfer's Manual. by a keen hand,

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Speaker 1: and that was 1857, and that was like the first

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Speaker 1: printed book of instruction from H.B. Farney. So golf is

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Speaker 1: definitely a thing by that point. St. Andrews is recognized,

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Speaker 1: the old course that is there, as the oldest surviving

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Speaker 1: golf course that's still around. It's been operating since at

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Speaker 1: least 1552. That's impressive. Which is, yeah, just incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's still around. They'll still play the Open there every year.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's like a set number of

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Speaker 1: years that they go back, but they still play it there.

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Speaker 2: The British Open?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's called specifically the Open.

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Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

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Speaker 1: People call it the British Open to differentiate it from

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Speaker 1: the U.S. Open, but I think the Scots are very

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Speaker 1: much like, no, it's just the Open.

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Speaker 2: There it is.

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Speaker 1: The Open.

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Speaker 2: Give us more, baby.

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Speaker 1: That's all you get.

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Speaker 2: Here, I've got one for you.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: The Archbishop of St. Andrews, his name was John Hamilton,

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Speaker 2: back in 1552. This is how we know that it

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Speaker 2: was being played on at least since then. It was

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Speaker 2: probably being played on long before then because in 1552,

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Speaker 2: John Hamilton's like, fine, here's a charter. You people of St. Andrews,

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Speaker 2: my congregants, my people, you guys can play on the

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Speaker 2: links for, and here's where you do a John Hamilton

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Speaker 2: impression from 1552.

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Speaker 1: Golf, football, shooting, and all games.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful. That was a dead on John Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why my Scottish accent sounds like I'm

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Speaker 1: about to choke at any second.

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Speaker 2: I feel like most Scottish impressions are like that. Like

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Speaker 2: think about groundskeeper Willie. He's like really worked up all

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Speaker 2: the time.

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Speaker 1: No, that's true. And I think I'm also just doing

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Speaker 1: Mike Myers from So I Married an Axe Murderer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Is that the if it's not Scottish, it's crap family?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Hit.

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Speaker 2: Move. It was good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very good stuff. That was a fun movie.

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Speaker 2: Was it? I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was funny.

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Speaker 2: I've seen all the Austin Powers movies. Does that count

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Speaker 2: for anything?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of those is good.

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Speaker 2: There was Fat Bastard. He was Scottish.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Boy, what an offensive character he was.

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Speaker 1: So early on, these golfing grounds or links were, they

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Speaker 1: just used sort of what the land gave them, the

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Speaker 1: If there was a pond, that was a hazard. If

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Speaker 1: there was a big, like, hill in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the fairway, that was maybe not a hazard, but something

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Speaker 1: you had to get through.

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Speaker 2: Stationary tornado, hazard. That's right.

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Speaker 1: But they essentially created, like, the model for what a

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Speaker 1: golf course would be and what would look like as

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Speaker 1: people started to, like, construct and build golf courses. And

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Speaker 1: also the number of holes. I think the old course

400
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Speaker 1: was originally 22 holes, but in 1764, they did some

401
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Speaker 1: consolidating and eventually ended up with 18. And they were like,

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Speaker 1: that's the standard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. That's why everybody's so into Scotland

404
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Speaker 2: as the origin or the cradle of golf, because not

405
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Speaker 2: only is that where golf really started and developed, that's

406
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Speaker 2: where like a lot of the terms are from, like

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Speaker 2: you said, links, A lot of the rules, a lot

408
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Speaker 2: of the standards, like the 18-hole golf course, they all

409
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Speaker 2: just kind of came from Scotland and spread from there.

410
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Speaker 2: Indisputably came from Scotland and spread from there. That's what

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Speaker 2: the beautiful thing is. We finally have made it out

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Speaker 2: of the murky past into the much clearer past for

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Speaker 2: the history of golf.

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Speaker 1: That's right. The Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews,

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Speaker 1: or otherwise known as the RNA, originally was known as

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Speaker 1: Society of St. Andrews Golfers. That was founded in 1754.

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Speaker 1: By 22, quote, noblemen and gentlemen. And they, the RNA

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Speaker 1: is who basically runs the show. They took responsibility for

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Speaker 1: maintaining that old course, building the new course. So the

420
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Speaker 1: new course was 1895. That shows you how old golf is.

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Speaker 1: And they became the authority. I think in the late

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Speaker 1: 19th century, the RNA became the UK's authority for the

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Speaker 1: rules of the game. And they managed the Open or

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Speaker 1: the British Open, as we call it. And then other

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Speaker 1: stuff like big golf events over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw that they are– I saw someone equate

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Speaker 2: them to the Augusta National Golf Club where they're just

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Speaker 2: an authority on the game and they are– they have

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Speaker 2: such authority they can actually issue rules and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Is that– that works out? I mean, it was Bleacher Report.

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Speaker 2: They're pretty legit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that sounds about right. You're talking about where

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Speaker 1: they play the Masters here in Augusta, Georgia, a place

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Speaker 1: where I've never been.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's the one. I'm dying to go to

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Speaker 1: the Masters, but it's really, really hard to get tickets.

439
00:22:14,890 --> 00:22:17,770
Speaker 2: Yes, and I think you should do a call-out for

440
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:20,389
Speaker 2: anyone who can get you Masters tickets to get them

441
00:22:20,430 --> 00:22:20,770
Speaker 2: to you.

442
00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:23,190
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to host me at the Masters,

443
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe I've never asked this. Please

444
00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: and thank you.

445
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll bring the crackers for the pimento cheese.

446
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: I'll bring everything.

447
00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 2: So....

448
00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:35,060
Speaker 1: Yes.

449
00:22:35,859 --> 00:22:37,820
Speaker 2: You are a great guest. I remember when we were

450
00:22:37,859 --> 00:22:39,939
Speaker 2: in Canada, you picked up after yourself all the time.

451
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: You pushed each chair back into the table. Like, you

452
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:43,939
Speaker 2: were a great guest.

453
00:22:44,770 --> 00:22:45,370
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.

454
00:22:46,650 --> 00:22:49,669
Speaker 2: So, and I realize I'm being kind of jokey in

455
00:22:49,710 --> 00:22:53,530
Speaker 2: this episode. I'm not usually very jokey. But that's because

456
00:22:53,550 --> 00:22:56,469
Speaker 2: I have so little to offer in this episode that

457
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:58,910
Speaker 2: I have to be the color commentator, I feel like.

458
00:22:59,580 --> 00:23:00,860
Speaker 1: That's right. You're doing great.

459
00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:05,310
Speaker 2: Like, you're Vern Lundquist. And I'm Dennis Miller in this one.

460
00:23:07,109 --> 00:23:10,629
Speaker 1: So we should talk about the 13 articles. There was

461
00:23:10,670 --> 00:23:14,210
Speaker 1: an event in 1744. It was a group known as

462
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:18,340
Speaker 1: the Honorable Company of Edinburgh Golfers. And they created a

463
00:23:18,420 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: competition called the Silver Club. And in preparation for this,

464
00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: they wrote out a document called the 13 articles. And

465
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,820
Speaker 1: that was sort of the first official rule book of golf,

466
00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:32,239
Speaker 1: which is now like very much expanded today. As far

467
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,390
Speaker 1: as the official rules of golf with like the PGA

468
00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:35,110
Speaker 1: and stuff like that.

469
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:37,929
Speaker 2: I saw rule 11 was that you had to memorize

470
00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:42,490
Speaker 2: and then recite Matheson's epic poem, The Golf. Oh, wow. Yeah,

471
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:43,270
Speaker 2: which is long.

472
00:23:43,390 --> 00:23:43,830
Speaker 1: Probably hard.

473
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:50,340
Speaker 2: So golf finally showed up in England in 1603. Again,

474
00:23:50,420 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: it had been being played for 150 years by then.

475
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,890
Speaker 2: But Scotland and England frequently went to war. They weren't

476
00:23:57,910 --> 00:24:02,980
Speaker 2: very friendly during this period. They became much friendlier when Mary,

477
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 2: Queen of Scots' son, James VI of Scotland, who was

478
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 2: the Scottish ruler at the time, he inherited the English

479
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: throne and he became James I of England. And so

480
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,750
Speaker 2: Scotland and England became much cozier companions. And when James

481
00:24:18,970 --> 00:24:21,870
Speaker 2: I showed up, he had his crew with him, his entourage,

482
00:24:22,030 --> 00:24:25,429
Speaker 2: court as you call it. And among his court members

483
00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: were a lot– or courtiers– were a lot of people

484
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:31,980
Speaker 2: who were avid golf players. And just because they had

485
00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 2: moved to a country that had never heard of golf before,

486
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: that wasn't going to stop them from continuing to play

487
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: anytime they could.

488
00:24:39,109 --> 00:24:41,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like he's like, these are my boys

489
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:43,070
Speaker 1: and we like to golf.

490
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:44,010
Speaker 2: Exactly.

491
00:24:44,490 --> 00:24:46,149
Speaker 1: So go build me a course. And that's what happened.

492
00:24:46,170 --> 00:24:50,150
Speaker 1: They established a course in Blackheath near the Royal Palace

493
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:55,530
Speaker 1: in Greenwich. And it didn't like spread far and wide though.

494
00:24:55,570 --> 00:24:59,409
Speaker 1: In fact, I think- It was like post-World War I

495
00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:03,669
Speaker 1: was when you finally got to 1,000 golf courses in

496
00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:09,350
Speaker 1: England and 200,000 golf enthusiasts. So in that interim time,

497
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:14,740
Speaker 1: apparently a lot of doctors, like Scottish professionals living in England,

498
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: brought the sport over. People would go on vacation maybe

499
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 1: to Scotland, discover it, and come back and be like,

500
00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:24,140
Speaker 1: why aren't we playing golf in England yet? And eventually

501
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,899
Speaker 1: they would get some momentum going. Someone would rent some land.

502
00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: Someone would create a course, and they just started opening

503
00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:33,740
Speaker 1: eventually at the rate of about one golf course a

504
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: week by the 1890s in England.

505
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:40,369
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then those courses would close down very quickly

506
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:43,470
Speaker 2: just because it was like overbuilding malls at the time.

507
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: Or in my family's experience, racquetball clubs in the 80s.

508
00:25:49,030 --> 00:25:51,970
Speaker 2: My family was on a terrible streak in the early

509
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: mid-80s where we would join a racquetball club, the whole family–

510
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: And a month later, the place would shut down and

511
00:25:58,140 --> 00:25:59,899
Speaker 2: there went our money. And then we'd move on to

512
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: the next one. It easily happened at least three times

513
00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:04,740
Speaker 2: to us, if not more. Yeah.

514
00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:07,810
Speaker 1: It's crazy to remember when racquetball had a grip on

515
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:13,669
Speaker 1: the United States in the 80s. It was fast and

516
00:26:13,710 --> 00:26:16,830
Speaker 1: wild and then basically went away. You never hear about

517
00:26:16,869 --> 00:26:17,580
Speaker 1: racquetball anymore.

518
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: No. I'm sure there's people who still play it quite

519
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:20,740
Speaker 2: a bit.

520
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I love racquetball. I haven't played in Since

521
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,300
Speaker 1: you and I did that commercial thing.

522
00:26:25,460 --> 00:26:26,290
Speaker 2: I forgot about that.

523
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,850
Speaker 1: It's like 14 years ago.

524
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:31,530
Speaker 2: That was awesome. It is great. The court sounds cool.

525
00:26:31,790 --> 00:26:32,670
Speaker 2: It's fun to watch.

526
00:26:33,030 --> 00:26:33,889
Speaker 1: It's a great workout.

527
00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:36,530
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And the bags are usually pretty awesome,

528
00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:39,630
Speaker 2: especially the early 80s racquetball bags. Yeah.

529
00:26:39,910 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: And pickleball, please. Get back to racquetball, people. That's what

530
00:26:43,940 --> 00:26:44,180
Speaker 1: I say.

531
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:46,210
Speaker 2: Sure. Let's get back to it.

532
00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: Maybe you and I should invest in a racquetball court.

533
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: Franchise?

534
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

535
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: We got to figure out a good name for it.

536
00:26:53,890 --> 00:26:57,230
Speaker 2: And it can't be some course reference to balls.

537
00:26:58,230 --> 00:26:59,990
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. That's immediately what I thought.

538
00:27:01,070 --> 00:27:03,530
Speaker 2: No, we're going to have to workshop it further, Chuck.

539
00:27:04,109 --> 00:27:04,470
Speaker 1: All right.

540
00:27:05,150 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: Cool.

541
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: Speaking of workshopping, they had to workshop the number of

542
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: holes because, you know, 18 was the official number. But

543
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: most of these golf courses in England were nine hole courses.

544
00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: And there's still plenty of nine hole courses out there.

545
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: But eventually they expanded to 18. And one downside to golf,

546
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,020
Speaker 1: you know, early on in England was it drove up

547
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:27,540
Speaker 1: the price of land quite a bit and also displaced

548
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:30,859
Speaker 1: like cattle grazing and stuff like that and angered a

549
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: lot of farmers.

550
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: Right.

551
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,060
Speaker 1: Yeah.

552
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: I mean, think about that, Chuck. Like England is not big,

553
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,620
Speaker 2: but this is like 19th century England just had started

554
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:45,630
Speaker 2: the Industrial Revolution and. Like there's already land that's there's

555
00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:48,170
Speaker 2: like a land grab going on for golf courses. It's

556
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:51,250
Speaker 2: already having an effect. Like that's how golf course crazy

557
00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:53,859
Speaker 2: England went at the time. And yeah, some of the

558
00:27:53,910 --> 00:27:57,060
Speaker 2: farmers push back. I think that they would drive their

559
00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: cattle onto the commons to graze during golf games to

560
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:05,340
Speaker 2: basically send the message like take it elsewhere, guy. Yeah,

561
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,020
Speaker 2: that's the best I could come up with. I'm a

562
00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 2: terrible color commentator.

563
00:28:09,940 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: Well, you just can't say what you would say, which

564
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: is filthy. That's true.

565
00:28:13,859 --> 00:28:14,980
Speaker 2: You know me so well.

566
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:17,930
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. We've done pretty good over the years avoiding

567
00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:19,470
Speaker 1: that kind of filth and flooring.

568
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:20,110
Speaker 2: For sure.

569
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:22,870
Speaker 1: So a lot of these courses were created by the

570
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:27,050
Speaker 1: sort of upper class and the aristocratic class, obviously. Sometimes

571
00:28:27,090 --> 00:28:30,030
Speaker 1: it might be a local government. But, you know, it

572
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: was a pretty bourgeois thing to play golf. And, you know,

573
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:36,820
Speaker 1: in a lot of areas, it still is that way,

574
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,420
Speaker 1: even though it's really been democratized in the past, like,

575
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:44,010
Speaker 1: especially 20 years, I think. But the rise of the

576
00:28:44,050 --> 00:28:46,970
Speaker 1: industrial middle class in England was looking for stuff to

577
00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:50,050
Speaker 1: do for fun like this, and they played golf. It

578
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:52,390
Speaker 1: was a good way to get out and enjoy nature

579
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:55,210
Speaker 1: and to do something to keep your body moving.

580
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:59,810
Speaker 2: The Industrial Revolution had taken hold and changed things enough

581
00:28:59,890 --> 00:29:04,010
Speaker 2: that the urban centers became like where people moved and lived.

582
00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:06,070
Speaker 2: And so golf was a really great way to get

583
00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:08,790
Speaker 2: out there, like you said, back to nature. People needed

584
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:11,090
Speaker 2: it quite badly by then. And then the other thing

585
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:13,750
Speaker 2: that happened thanks to the Industrial Revolution was the railroad

586
00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:15,850
Speaker 2: made it a lot easier to get further out into

587
00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:18,820
Speaker 2: the county, into the shires, as they call them.

588
00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So all of a sudden you had access.

589
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: It gets you out into nature. That's still one of

590
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,459
Speaker 1: the things I love about it the best is even

591
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:31,630
Speaker 1: though there are frustrations, like those leave me very quickly.

592
00:29:31,650 --> 00:29:34,510
Speaker 1: I don't like get mad and stay mad. I get

593
00:29:34,550 --> 00:29:37,690
Speaker 1: mad for a second or two. And then you're out

594
00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:39,830
Speaker 1: there with your friends and you're walking around in this.

595
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,070
Speaker 1: sun for four hours and not looking at your phone. And,

596
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:43,660
Speaker 1: you know, it's great.

597
00:29:43,780 --> 00:29:45,020
Speaker 2: Not muttering to yourself.

598
00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: I mutter a little bit, but no one likes playing

599
00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:51,180
Speaker 1: with someone who just gets mad. No. All the time.

600
00:29:51,380 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: That's just that's no fun.

601
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,010
Speaker 2: That's a great personality trait to be able to let

602
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:59,890
Speaker 2: it go. Let it go. I try. Let's take a

603
00:29:59,930 --> 00:30:02,250
Speaker 2: break and come back and talk about the USA.

604
00:30:02,970 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: All right, let's do it. All right. So we promised

605
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: talk of the United States. Golf in the U.S. goes

606
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,260
Speaker 1: back a pretty long way, actually. In the 17th century,

607
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,220
Speaker 1: when the American colonies were being populated from places like

608
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: Scotland and the Netherlands, which we brought up, they were like,

609
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: we want to play golf over here. Looks pretty good

610
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:52,180
Speaker 1: to me. And people started playing in 1659. I think

611
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:55,510
Speaker 1: that was verified that people were playing golf in Fort Orange,

612
00:30:55,570 --> 00:30:59,630
Speaker 1: New York, modern day Albany. And I guess that sort

613
00:30:59,670 --> 00:31:02,100
Speaker 1: of short style golf game. Right.

614
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,060
Speaker 2: In the streets.

615
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,140
Speaker 1: That's right.

616
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: It's a four kid. The actually I think the Dutch

617
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: colonial government in what would probably be what like New

618
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: Amsterdam or something like that at the time. They were like,

619
00:31:17,620 --> 00:31:20,580
Speaker 2: you can't play the short golf stuff. Again, the windows

620
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,940
Speaker 2: are really costly here. They're a high-end luxury. So let's

621
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: not break them with your golf balls anymore. Yeah.

622
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: So it was sort of playing out the same way

623
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,850
Speaker 1: in the U.S. as it did in Scotland early on.

624
00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:35,050
Speaker 2: Right.

625
00:31:35,370 --> 00:31:38,490
Speaker 1: In 1743, there was a Scottish native that was 21

626
00:31:38,490 --> 00:31:42,310
Speaker 1: years old. Also, he was a slave trader. His name

627
00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:46,350
Speaker 1: was David Dees. And he had his gear shipped to

628
00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:50,850
Speaker 1: him in Charleston, South Carolina. And in 1841, the South

629
00:31:50,890 --> 00:31:55,750
Speaker 1: Carolina Golf Club established Harrelston Green in Charleston Park, which

630
00:31:55,830 --> 00:32:01,630
Speaker 1: I think is the first American golf club. And very disappointingly,

631
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:04,710
Speaker 1: the caddies there were enslaved people.

632
00:32:05,410 --> 00:32:09,050
Speaker 2: Right. And it was I looked it up, the Harrelston

633
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:13,150
Speaker 2: Golf Club or Harrelston Green, I should say. Is not

634
00:32:13,230 --> 00:32:15,270
Speaker 2: there anymore. But that was the first one in the

635
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:17,230
Speaker 2: United States ever. Right.

636
00:32:18,170 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. The oldest continuous or continually running course, I guess,

637
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: surviving course. A lot of ways you could say that

638
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: is also St. Andrews, but not in Scotland. In Yonkers,

639
00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: New York in 1888, that was founded. Canada edges us out.

640
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,580
Speaker 1: I think the Royal Montreal Club was founded in 1873. Yeah.

641
00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:41,670
Speaker 1: But I didn't know about St. Andrews and Yonkers. I'd

642
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:42,630
Speaker 1: love to go play that course.

643
00:32:42,990 --> 00:32:46,510
Speaker 2: It became one of the founding members of the U.S.

644
00:32:46,550 --> 00:32:49,970
Speaker 2: Golf Association, which this story is one of my favorites

645
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: out of this whole thing.

646
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:51,820
Speaker 1: Let's hear it.

647
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,260
Speaker 2: Well, there's a guy named Charles Blair McDonald, and he

648
00:32:55,420 --> 00:32:59,020
Speaker 2: is the first person to call himself a golf architect.

649
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,630
Speaker 2: He had Scottish roots, but he was from Chicago. But

650
00:33:03,670 --> 00:33:06,910
Speaker 2: he went back and studied at St. Andrews University in Scotland. So,

651
00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:08,410
Speaker 2: of course, he played golf a lot. And when he

652
00:33:08,450 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: came back to Chicago, he was like, hey, man, let's

653
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,380
Speaker 2: get busy on turning Chicago into a world-class golf town.

654
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,910
Speaker 2: And he started designing courses. And he became, yeah, a

655
00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:25,870
Speaker 2: very widely respected course architect. He was also a huge,

656
00:33:26,590 --> 00:33:32,050
Speaker 2: huge jerk. And because of his personality, he actually inadvertently

657
00:33:32,110 --> 00:33:35,110
Speaker 2: gave rise to the U.S. Golf Association. Yeah.

658
00:33:35,130 --> 00:33:37,470
Speaker 1: Didn't he, like, just pitch a tantrum or something?

659
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:42,330
Speaker 2: He did. Two different ones. He played in two tournaments back-to-back,

660
00:33:42,550 --> 00:33:44,850
Speaker 2: placed second in both of them, and threw such a

661
00:33:44,890 --> 00:33:47,610
Speaker 2: hissy fit in both of these tournaments for placing second

662
00:33:48,030 --> 00:33:51,690
Speaker 2: that he called into question the legitimacy of the tournament.

663
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:55,670
Speaker 2: He basically said that the players who placed first had cheated, like,

664
00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: really was a sore loser. So much so that St.

665
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: Andrews and Yonkers and I think four other golf clubs

666
00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:04,820
Speaker 2: at the time got together and were like, we need

667
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: to come up with a set of rules that can't

668
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 2: be challenged or anything like that. None of this loosey-goosey

669
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: stuff because people like Charles Blair McDonald are out there.

670
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: They exist. We've seen now. So they got together to

671
00:34:16,700 --> 00:34:19,700
Speaker 2: formalize rules. Again, that became the USGA.

672
00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:20,590
Speaker 1: Oh.

673
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:23,810
Speaker 2: And they did it because of Charles Blair McDonald and

674
00:34:23,850 --> 00:34:24,790
Speaker 2: his temper tantrums.

675
00:34:25,630 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: Wow. That's funny. Second is- Not bad, my friend.

676
00:34:29,780 --> 00:34:32,660
Speaker 2: No, no. And especially in a golf tournament?

677
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's weird. So by 1900, there's more than a

678
00:34:37,460 --> 00:34:40,390
Speaker 1: thousand golf courses in the U.S. And then just like

679
00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:43,950
Speaker 1: in England post-World War I, things really catch on even more.

680
00:34:44,890 --> 00:34:49,670
Speaker 1: A lot has changed equipment-wise in golf over the years.

681
00:34:50,930 --> 00:34:54,230
Speaker 1: Those early golf clubs were, you know, built by hand, obviously.

682
00:34:54,830 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: And they were all wood. You know, they were dense hardwoods,

683
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:02,959
Speaker 1: basically like beech or holly. The shafts were made of wood.

684
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,220
Speaker 1: The club heads early on were made of wood, maybe

685
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,739
Speaker 1: ash or hazel for the shafts. And they had at

686
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:11,810
Speaker 1: this point, you know, they were playing with a club

687
00:35:11,870 --> 00:35:14,230
Speaker 1: for a shot. So it wasn't just like, all right,

688
00:35:14,250 --> 00:35:15,930
Speaker 1: you've got two clubs. Go out there and do it.

689
00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:19,290
Speaker 1: Like you had, you know, there's a guy named Archibald Barry,

690
00:35:19,410 --> 00:35:21,530
Speaker 1: I think was the first guy to invent a standard

691
00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:22,770
Speaker 1: set of golf irons.

692
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:24,750
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

693
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:26,310
Speaker 1: But they had, you know, they had different names for

694
00:35:26,330 --> 00:35:29,350
Speaker 1: the clubs, like the play club. was what you would

695
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:32,930
Speaker 1: call a driver these days. A brassy would be equivalent

696
00:35:32,969 --> 00:35:37,110
Speaker 1: to a three-wood. A spoon was a five-wood. A cleek,

697
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:39,010
Speaker 1: I saw a couple of things for cleek. I think

698
00:35:39,070 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: a cleek was like a one or two iron, which

699
00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:43,140
Speaker 1: is not a club that people really even use much anymore.

700
00:35:43,380 --> 00:35:43,700
Speaker 2: How come?

701
00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:46,980
Speaker 1: They're just really, really, really hard to hit.

702
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,020
Speaker 2: Okay.

703
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,660
Speaker 1: It's like an iron that's just almost completely flat and

704
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: has no angle to it or loft.

705
00:35:52,980 --> 00:35:53,500
Speaker 2: No lift?

706
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,339
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Okay. Uh, like I have a five iron

707
00:35:57,380 --> 00:36:00,069
Speaker 1: is the lowest iron I have. Some people have fours

708
00:36:00,130 --> 00:36:02,690
Speaker 1: and some like, you know, really good golfers might have

709
00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:04,690
Speaker 1: a two iron. But anyway, I think that's what a

710
00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:08,290
Speaker 1: cleek was, even though I saw something about a cleek putter. Uh,

711
00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:10,589
Speaker 1: they also had a baffy or a baffing spoon would

712
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: be like a seven wood and a Nick Blick would

713
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,259
Speaker 1: be like a lofted wedge. Uh, and then all of

714
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:22,830
Speaker 1: this was like, um, Like wood, wood, wood until you

715
00:36:22,850 --> 00:36:27,510
Speaker 1: finally started getting metal shafts. I think in the 1650s

716
00:36:27,969 --> 00:36:29,910
Speaker 1: were the first metal shafts, but they didn't really become

717
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:32,390
Speaker 1: popular until much later on. And I think in 1930,

718
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:36,330
Speaker 1: the Spalding Company started like numbering the irons. So they

719
00:36:36,370 --> 00:36:39,110
Speaker 1: got rid of like most of those words and just

720
00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:40,090
Speaker 1: use like the numbers.

721
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:46,100
Speaker 2: Right. And then metal clubs weren't around really until the

722
00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: 1980s or weren't common until the 80s. That kind of

723
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: surprised me.

724
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:52,190
Speaker 1: Well, metal woods. Right.

725
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:52,569
Speaker 2: Yeah.

726
00:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,690
Speaker 1: Before then, they were like my very first driver when

727
00:36:56,710 --> 00:37:00,870
Speaker 1: I was 13 was a wooden driver. I mean, I

728
00:37:00,910 --> 00:37:03,830
Speaker 1: had a metal shaft, steel shaft, but it was a

729
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: wooden driver. But the face of it has like a

730
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: metal plate on the front of it. Sure.

731
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,859
Speaker 2: No, I played golf. I was actually I led off

732
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,130
Speaker 2: about the same time as that around age 13.

733
00:37:18,130 --> 00:37:20,189
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just mean for people listening, if they thought

734
00:37:20,210 --> 00:37:21,569
Speaker 1: like you're talking.

735
00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: No, no, no.

736
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,379
Speaker 1: Like when you say they had wooden heads, they had

737
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: wooden heads, but like a metal face plate.

738
00:37:27,660 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: Sure.

739
00:37:28,820 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: And then in the 1980s, like I remember my first

740
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: driver that had like an all metal head. And I

741
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,220
Speaker 1: was just like, it felt like the future.

742
00:37:35,380 --> 00:37:39,109
Speaker 2: Gotcha. So one of the reasons they had to make

743
00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:44,770
Speaker 2: harder and harder clubs was because the balls themselves got harder,

744
00:37:45,110 --> 00:37:48,890
Speaker 2: I guess. Yeah. There was something called gutta perca, which

745
00:37:48,969 --> 00:37:51,569
Speaker 2: is from a Malaysian tree. It's a kind of latex.

746
00:37:52,110 --> 00:37:56,170
Speaker 2: And this completely changed the type of ball that golfers

747
00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:58,910
Speaker 2: were hitting before. I don't remember if we mentioned or not,

748
00:37:58,930 --> 00:38:01,690
Speaker 2: but it was boiled goose feathers packed tightly in a

749
00:38:01,770 --> 00:38:05,390
Speaker 2: leather exterior. That was a golf ball. That was like

750
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 2: the standard for a while. Now, all of a sudden,

751
00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 2: you have this natural latex. It's way harder. And it's just,

752
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, breaking your club naturally. pretty easily. So that's

753
00:38:15,460 --> 00:38:19,460
Speaker 2: why they advanced in the technology of clubs. And then

754
00:38:19,860 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 2: now that the clubs and the balls were working so well,

755
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:26,109
Speaker 2: they had to actually go back and kind of rearrange

756
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:29,730
Speaker 2: golf courses because people were hitting it way farther than

757
00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:32,950
Speaker 2: they had been before with the other, like the slightly

758
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:34,820
Speaker 2: jankier equipment.

759
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And these days, just the tech behind

760
00:38:39,060 --> 00:38:42,299
Speaker 1: golf clubs and golf balls is just you know, as

761
00:38:42,340 --> 00:38:44,819
Speaker 1: you would expect. It's like, so next level, it's kind

762
00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:47,660
Speaker 1: of funny, like how they manufacture these things now and

763
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,050
Speaker 1: all like the R & D that goes into it.

764
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I think that's a, I don't want to

765
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,910
Speaker 2: say it's an issue I have with it, but there's

766
00:38:53,930 --> 00:38:55,710
Speaker 2: something that stands out to me, not just in golf,

767
00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:59,830
Speaker 2: but in life these days, everything has been optimized to

768
00:38:59,870 --> 00:39:03,250
Speaker 2: the maximum degree that it's just like, you know, here,

769
00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:05,450
Speaker 2: chase after this thing and you got enough money for this.

770
00:39:05,530 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: And This is going to make you a million times

771
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: better than you could be on your own through hard

772
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: work and effort or whatever. I don't know. It just

773
00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: stands out to me.

774
00:39:14,180 --> 00:39:17,589
Speaker 1: Yeah. Golf for sure is a sport that wants to

775
00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:21,030
Speaker 1: sell you every new thing under the sun to make

776
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:21,620
Speaker 1: you better.

777
00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:23,969
Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine. And there's a lot of new things

778
00:39:23,969 --> 00:39:25,850
Speaker 2: under the sun. You said it was a 200 plus

779
00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:29,310
Speaker 2: billion dollar industry in just the U.S. alone. I imagine

780
00:39:29,350 --> 00:39:29,970
Speaker 2: that's the case.

781
00:39:30,270 --> 00:39:33,130
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a little annoying, though. I'm with you

782
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:36,780
Speaker 1: on that. OK, the term caddy was originally a term

783
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,180
Speaker 1: for a Scottish errand boy. And one of the errands

784
00:39:40,219 --> 00:39:42,219
Speaker 1: was like, hey, come over here and carry my golf clubs.

785
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:45,820
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. The balls, those feathery

786
00:39:45,860 --> 00:39:48,890
Speaker 1: balls that you were talking about were expensive and And

787
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:50,899
Speaker 1: so a lot of times you would have what's called

788
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:53,420
Speaker 1: a four caddy. And this is someone who goes up

789
00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:55,500
Speaker 1: the course a bit to find your ball and like

790
00:39:55,540 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: spot where your ball went so they can retrieve it

791
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,580
Speaker 1: for you. They still have caddies on some courses today, obviously.

792
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: I've had a caddy in like three or four times

793
00:40:04,420 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: maybe in my life because I don't usually play like

794
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:09,820
Speaker 1: those super, super great courses. But it's a it's a

795
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:14,210
Speaker 1: fun experience. Caddies are usually like like really nice and like,

796
00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:16,150
Speaker 1: you know, they work for tips.

797
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:16,310
Speaker 2: So.

798
00:40:16,969 --> 00:40:18,950
Speaker 1: You know, they're out there to help you play your

799
00:40:18,969 --> 00:40:21,650
Speaker 1: best game and have a good time doing it.

800
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:22,910
Speaker 2: Okay.

801
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:24,340
Speaker 1: Yeah.

802
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: I heard that the word caddy came from Mary Queen

803
00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: of Scots who resided in France for a while. And

804
00:40:30,460 --> 00:40:34,380
Speaker 2: some of the French cadets would carry her clubs around.

805
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,529
Speaker 2: And she lovingly referred to them as caddies. Is that

806
00:40:37,610 --> 00:40:38,350
Speaker 2: not true, Chuck?

807
00:40:38,730 --> 00:40:39,089
Speaker 1: I don't know.

808
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:40,250
Speaker 2: That's not true.

809
00:40:40,610 --> 00:40:44,250
Speaker 1: Okay. In 19th century England, a lot of times these

810
00:40:44,310 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: were teenagers doing this kind of thing or maybe a

811
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,140
Speaker 1: working class adult who couldn't go work at the factory

812
00:40:51,180 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: or something. You might work as a caddy. Apparently they

813
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,299
Speaker 1: weren't treated super great back then. I did mention that

814
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,350
Speaker 1: enslaved people were used in like early in the United

815
00:41:00,390 --> 00:41:04,310
Speaker 1: States as caddies. There were even reformers who were like

816
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,140
Speaker 1: Trying to do work to get caddies to be treated better. Yeah.

817
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:11,410
Speaker 1: And I love that Livia says provide them with shelter

818
00:41:11,430 --> 00:41:12,950
Speaker 1: on the course. She didn't use the word shack.

819
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:13,910
Speaker 2: No, she didn't.

820
00:41:13,930 --> 00:41:17,330
Speaker 1: Just sitting there like staring at her. Yeah. It's pretty funny.

821
00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:19,070
Speaker 2: I wrote caddy shack.

822
00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: Well, Livia also said, by the way, guys, I know

823
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: nothing about golf. So if I got anything wrong, take

824
00:41:24,020 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: it easy on me.

825
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: As far as I can tell, she did a great job.

826
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: No, she did a really good job.

827
00:41:28,910 --> 00:41:31,570
Speaker 2: And then pros, too, the idea of having a pro

828
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: on staff and then not just a golf pro who's

829
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: there to like teach you how to play, to tell

830
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: you what clubs you need, that kind of stuff. But

831
00:41:41,260 --> 00:41:46,190
Speaker 2: also basically people who maintain equipment, groundkeepers, they all started

832
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:51,089
Speaker 2: to come around in England. And then if you were

833
00:41:51,110 --> 00:41:53,750
Speaker 2: a member of like a really good club, you probably

834
00:41:53,810 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: had like a famous player who was the pro. Yeah.

835
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,610
Speaker 2: And then. if you were not a member of a

836
00:41:59,650 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: really great club, there was probably still a really good

837
00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:08,020
Speaker 2: Scottish golf player because Scottish players were like the gold standard.

838
00:42:08,060 --> 00:42:10,419
Speaker 2: I think if you belong to a club that had

839
00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: like a non-Scottish pro or a non-famous pro, you probably

840
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,620
Speaker 2: rethought where you sent your membership dues.

841
00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:20,430
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, that tradition continues today

842
00:42:20,469 --> 00:42:23,529
Speaker 1: with like, you know, every I don't know about every club,

843
00:42:23,550 --> 00:42:26,029
Speaker 1: but I think most golf clubs have a pro on

844
00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:30,380
Speaker 1: staff still today for various uses. I think it's a

845
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:32,500
Speaker 1: good way to earn a living. I imagine most of

846
00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: those people wanted to go out and play professionally on tour.

847
00:42:37,739 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: But I'm sure it's a great sort of gig to

848
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:41,620
Speaker 1: fall back on.

849
00:42:42,170 --> 00:42:47,589
Speaker 2: For sure. So golf fever really started off in the

850
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: late 19th century. Like when magazines dedicated to golf started.

851
00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:55,660
Speaker 2: And then also one of the other indicators that golf

852
00:42:55,739 --> 00:42:59,009
Speaker 2: is just like this mass phenomenon is that it starts

853
00:42:59,070 --> 00:43:01,890
Speaker 2: showing up in other publications that had nothing to do

854
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:04,810
Speaker 2: with golf. Right? Just like today. There was like mention

855
00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:06,609
Speaker 2: of golf. There was an article on golf or this

856
00:43:06,670 --> 00:43:12,380
Speaker 2: golfer or something like that. And I found probably one

857
00:43:12,420 --> 00:43:14,900
Speaker 2: of the most niche websites I've ever been on. It

858
00:43:14,980 --> 00:43:19,690
Speaker 2: dealt in antique golf magazines. cartoons from the 19th century

859
00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:23,489
Speaker 2: from magazines like punch. Um, did you see some of this?

860
00:43:23,850 --> 00:43:27,290
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. The, my favorite one was, uh, you know,

861
00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:29,870
Speaker 1: one of the biggest no-nos you can do when you

862
00:43:29,890 --> 00:43:31,950
Speaker 1: go to swing a club is to like lift your

863
00:43:31,989 --> 00:43:32,260
Speaker 1: head up.

864
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:33,410
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I like that one too.

865
00:43:33,610 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: Guaranteed bad result. Like keep your head down, keep your

866
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:37,740
Speaker 1: head down. And there's been all sorts of various devices

867
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,500
Speaker 1: over the years. Like literally a thing you hang around

868
00:43:39,540 --> 00:43:42,419
Speaker 1: your neck and attached to your crotch to like keep

869
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,620
Speaker 1: you from lifting up. But there's one of those antique

870
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,859
Speaker 1: cartoons had a guy with a, You know, a five

871
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: foot long beard that he was standing on to keep

872
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,660
Speaker 1: him from lifting his head. I thought that was funny.

873
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:55,460
Speaker 2: There's devices you attach to your crotch to keep your

874
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 2: head down while you swing. Does it like shock you

875
00:43:58,380 --> 00:43:59,700
Speaker 2: or something if you lift your head? Well, no.

876
00:43:59,739 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: If you lift your head up, it just pulls up,

877
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,339
Speaker 1: you know, and I guess pulls up at your crotch. Like,

878
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,299
Speaker 1: I don't think people use these. I remember seeing that

879
00:44:07,340 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: like 20 something years ago. Okay. It may have been

880
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: more of a novelty, but I do remember that existed.

881
00:44:13,380 --> 00:44:15,550
Speaker 2: It was by the company that make those hard hats

882
00:44:15,610 --> 00:44:17,850
Speaker 2: that hold beers and the straws come out of them?

883
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:18,950
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably so.

884
00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:23,870
Speaker 2: So one of the things that golf was long known

885
00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:28,110
Speaker 2: for was it was an elite white male sport or

886
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:32,030
Speaker 2: recreation or pastime. And then slowly but surely over the years—

887
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:37,380
Speaker 2: The gates open more and more and more to women,

888
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: to African-Americans in the United States. And in the meantime, though,

889
00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:48,060
Speaker 2: before those those gates open groups like women and like African-Americans,

890
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:51,339
Speaker 2: they just were like, we like golf, too. We're going

891
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: to go do our own thing. So you had like

892
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: the LPGA that was formed in 1950. Yeah. The Chicago

893
00:44:59,219 --> 00:45:03,100
Speaker 2: Women's Golf Club, which was all African-American women, they formed

894
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:07,779
Speaker 2: their club in 1937. And then the impression I have

895
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: is that the United Golfers Association, the African-American Men's Association,

896
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:18,930
Speaker 2: was like the premier golf association starting back in 1925,

897
00:45:18,930 --> 00:45:19,870
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, it's great.

898
00:45:19,930 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: I mean— You know, it's definitely a game and a

899
00:45:24,580 --> 00:45:27,940
Speaker 1: sport where there is still this old sort of country

900
00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:32,259
Speaker 1: club set that is still very white male oriented. Like

901
00:45:32,530 --> 00:45:35,589
Speaker 1: no one is denying that. There's a country club sort

902
00:45:35,610 --> 00:45:37,850
Speaker 1: of near my house and I have some friends that

903
00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:39,969
Speaker 1: are members that I get to play at sometimes. And

904
00:45:40,489 --> 00:45:43,810
Speaker 1: they're a pretty like progressive model, but they still have

905
00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:48,649
Speaker 1: like the men's lounge at, you know, the club that's got,

906
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:50,750
Speaker 1: you know, the pool table and the darts and the

907
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:53,549
Speaker 1: buffet and the bar and the cigars. And, you know,

908
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:55,549
Speaker 1: the women there, they play golf, but they don't have

909
00:45:55,570 --> 00:45:56,710
Speaker 1: their own lounge.

910
00:45:57,010 --> 00:45:57,350
Speaker 2: Wow.

911
00:45:57,710 --> 00:46:00,570
Speaker 1: So that kind of stuff is definitely still out there.

912
00:46:00,690 --> 00:46:05,150
Speaker 1: There are clubs that have just recently like allowed women

913
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:08,710
Speaker 1: to be members or African-Americans or people from other ethnicities

914
00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:12,529
Speaker 1: to be members. So that's something that that sucks. But

915
00:46:12,670 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: it's changing. And I think golf is as democratized as

916
00:46:16,780 --> 00:46:19,670
Speaker 1: it's ever been right now. Um, especially like you go

917
00:46:19,730 --> 00:46:22,529
Speaker 1: out in Atlanta, uh, which is very African-American town and

918
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: you go out to public courses and, you know, these

919
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: are where I'm playing and the driving range, like right

920
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,259
Speaker 1: near my house. And like, I'm, I'm a minority in

921
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,180
Speaker 1: a lot of cases and it's, it's great to see.

922
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,259
Speaker 1: I love that the game is being spread around to

923
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: more and more people. Uh, one of the fun segments

924
00:46:37,860 --> 00:46:38,940
Speaker 1: on the show I'm going to do is I got

925
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,140
Speaker 1: these little, you know, the little microphones that you see

926
00:46:41,180 --> 00:46:43,190
Speaker 1: for Instagrammers and I'm going to go out to the

927
00:46:43,230 --> 00:46:45,930
Speaker 1: range and like talk to people and stuff. And, uh,

928
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:47,609
Speaker 1: you know, that's going to be one of the segments. So.

929
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:48,620
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

930
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,500
Speaker 1: It's changed a lot over the years for the better,

931
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,140
Speaker 1: I think. And people are I see guys with their

932
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: girlfriends out there a lot now, which seems something I'd

933
00:46:56,219 --> 00:46:58,660
Speaker 1: never used to see that it's becoming like a coupled

934
00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:00,180
Speaker 1: sport more than ever, which is awesome.

935
00:47:00,550 --> 00:47:01,339
Speaker 2: I've noticed that, too.

936
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool. I love it.

937
00:47:04,050 --> 00:47:06,549
Speaker 2: So I think this is high time that you tell

938
00:47:06,610 --> 00:47:08,890
Speaker 2: everybody the name of your podcast again and when they

939
00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:11,450
Speaker 2: can get it and where they can get it, Chuck. Yeah.

940
00:47:11,530 --> 00:47:14,590
Speaker 1: Thanks, dude. In fact, I'm going to do this in

941
00:47:14,610 --> 00:47:17,750
Speaker 1: lieu of listener mail since we're running long. But, you know.

942
00:47:18,090 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: Once again, the show is with myself and Adam Pranica.

943
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: Adam's going to be on the cruise, by the way.

944
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is.

945
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: He's my plus one. So we're going to have a

946
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:29,219
Speaker 1: good time. The three of us are. And along with

947
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,459
Speaker 1: Ben is coming instead of Jerry now. We should probably

948
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:31,930
Speaker 1: announce that.

949
00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:33,850
Speaker 2: Yes, it's going to be fun.

950
00:47:34,290 --> 00:47:37,589
Speaker 1: I know we told everyone Jerry was coming, but she

951
00:47:37,610 --> 00:47:38,129
Speaker 1: can't come now.

952
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:40,930
Speaker 2: You're going to meet producer Ben, who may or may

953
00:47:40,969 --> 00:47:42,350
Speaker 2: not actually be Jerry.

954
00:47:43,350 --> 00:47:47,029
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, once again, it's called Three Putt Bogey.

955
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:51,020
Speaker 1: And it's already out. It's live, everybody. It was released

956
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:55,820
Speaker 1: once again this past Friday, September 25th. So give it

957
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: a listen. I appreciate your support and appreciate your support, Josh,

958
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: for allowing me to do another solo record.

959
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: I don't have any say in it whatsoever.

960
00:48:06,340 --> 00:48:08,819
Speaker 1: Well, not allowing, being encouraging of it. Yeah, that's what

961
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: I mean.

962
00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: Encouraging makes more sense. Yes, I am very encouraging. Go

963
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,180
Speaker 2: knock them out of the park.

964
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: I appreciate that.

965
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: Is that a golf metaphor?

966
00:48:17,219 --> 00:48:20,020
Speaker 1: It absolutely is. A home run. And I look forward

967
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,779
Speaker 1: to End of the World Part 2.

968
00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:23,660
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks, man. Someday. Someday.

969
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:24,100
Speaker 1: You think so?

970
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,859
Speaker 2: Something like it. Probably. Eventually. I'm not sure what, but

971
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,100
Speaker 2: I don't know.

972
00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:31,020
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see how it goes. And I'll let you

973
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,529
Speaker 1: know how taxing it is on me to do a

974
00:48:34,590 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: second show again.

975
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,029
Speaker 2: Right. You're just going to be like, not worth it.

976
00:48:37,210 --> 00:48:38,450
Speaker 1: Yeah.

977
00:48:38,550 --> 00:48:40,189
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure it's going to be fun. And plus,

978
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:42,310
Speaker 2: I mean, you'll have a great excuse to golf, golf, golf.

979
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:45,870
Speaker 2: And I imagine expense it or at least write it off.

980
00:48:46,750 --> 00:48:48,649
Speaker 1: You know what? I can't do that. I actually checked

981
00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:49,330
Speaker 1: with my accountant.

982
00:48:50,210 --> 00:48:52,090
Speaker 2: Why can't you? That doesn't make any sense.

983
00:48:52,350 --> 00:48:54,850
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because I was like, that wasn't the

984
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:56,489
Speaker 1: reason I started it. But I was like, hey, man,

985
00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:58,230
Speaker 1: that'd be great if I could like write off stuff.

986
00:48:59,330 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: She actually has my accountant has a golf influencer and

987
00:49:03,219 --> 00:49:05,180
Speaker 1: someone else on her roster. So like she really knows

988
00:49:05,219 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: about this.

989
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:06,260
Speaker 2: OK.

990
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,460
Speaker 1: She was like, your dreams of writing off golf rounds

991
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,460
Speaker 1: and equipment are not going to happen. She said, but

992
00:49:11,739 --> 00:49:14,810
Speaker 1: if you travel for a golf trip that is part

993
00:49:14,830 --> 00:49:17,270
Speaker 1: of the show, which is going to be part of

994
00:49:17,310 --> 00:49:18,890
Speaker 1: the show when Adam and I do our golf trips,

995
00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:20,850
Speaker 1: we're going to like talk about them and bring microphones

996
00:49:20,910 --> 00:49:23,910
Speaker 1: and stuff. She said, you can probably write off the travel.

997
00:49:24,610 --> 00:49:25,089
Speaker 2: Oh, that's good.

998
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:27,069
Speaker 1: So like plane tickets and hotel, maybe.

999
00:49:27,690 --> 00:49:29,770
Speaker 2: Okay. That's something.

1000
00:49:30,290 --> 00:49:32,550
Speaker 1: It's big stuff. I'll let everyone know how the write-offs

1001
00:49:32,590 --> 00:49:32,930
Speaker 1: are going.

1002
00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:36,100
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'll let everyone know that you went to prison.

1003
00:49:36,540 --> 00:49:37,299
Speaker 1: That's right.

1004
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:37,900
Speaker 2: Okay.

1005
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: Okay.

1006
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:43,010
Speaker 2: Well, that's Chuck and Adam's podcast that's coming out. So

1007
00:49:43,050 --> 00:49:45,130
Speaker 2: keep an ear out for it. It's going to be great.

1008
00:49:45,590 --> 00:49:48,150
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, you can always email us here

1009
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:52,610
Speaker 2: at Stuff You Should Know at stuffpodcast at iheartradio.com.

1010
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,819
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1011
00:49:59,860 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts

1012
00:50:04,100 --> 00:50:05,930
Speaker 1: are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.