1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: I was sitting on the sea wall. 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 2: I didn't see the way coming. 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: It just pushed me off, and I thought it was 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: something else that way. I thought it was like a monster. 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: My grandmother told me to come to the church. So 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: I read here and sit washing, everybody yelling, washing, the 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: babies drying, and it was not good. 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 3: What can you do to go up with each impact 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 3: of climate change? 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 4: I think the best thing I learned is to do 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 4: an action plan. And so I'm dedicated to this place, 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 4: like I was destined to be in this place. 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 5: That's why I'm gonna stay here. 14 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna leave. I'm gonna stay watched, even if 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 4: it means to try. 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 6: The effects were already very visible because we were doing 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 6: a film, so we wanted to capture it. So while 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 6: we were there, we talked to all these kids and 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 6: we were really struck by how much they knew about 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 6: climate change, Like they were more conversant in the causes 21 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 6: and effects of climate change than like most adults that 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 6: I know. 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 5: This is Katie Worth. She's a reporter for Frontline and 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 5: this project she did on the Marshall Islands is really incredible. 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 5: It's super interactive, very immersive, super interesting project. I'll link 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 5: to it in the show notes, but for our purposes today, 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 5: this thing she said about how even really little kids 28 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 5: in the Marshall Islands were pretty knowledgeable and conversant about 29 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 5: climate change. It really struck me. 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that I didn't even learn half of 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: what those kids said until I was like well into 32 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 3: my career as a climate reporter. 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 5: Darna Nor, welcome to Drilled. 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. 35 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here. 36 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 5: If you don't already know. Darna is a climate reporter 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 5: for Earther, that's giz Moto's climate and justice site. She 38 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 5: and I have been working together the past few months 39 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 5: to pull together this series about the fossil fuel industry's 40 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 5: influence on education in America, particularly when it comes to 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 5: how we think about solutions to climate change. We're calling 42 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 5: it the ABC's of Big Oil. So back to the 43 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 5: Marshall Islands. That trip a few years ago prompted Frontline 44 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 5: reporter Katie Worth to want to look into what American 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 5: kids know about climate change. Oh man, and aren't there. 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: Like a ton of Marshall Islands refugees here in the 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: US too, in Arkansas and Oklahoma? 48 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, both So Katie went to some schools in Arkansas, 49 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 5: where there's a large Marshallese population, to see what American 50 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 5: kids are learning there about climate change, and also to 51 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 5: kind of get a sense of, Okay, if these kids 52 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 5: on the Marshall Islands were to leave there and go 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 5: to one of these communities in the US, what would 54 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 5: those same kids be learning here. She was expecting them 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 5: to know less, but she was not prepared for them 56 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 5: to be steeped in climate denial. 57 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 6: We went to Springdale, Arkansas to visit some schools there 58 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 6: because of this connection to the Marshall Islands, because it's 59 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 6: such a large marshal Leze community in Springdale. And so 60 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 6: I went and visited a few different schools, and one 61 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 6: of them was a middle school, and I started talking 62 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 6: to the science teachers and in walks this lobbyist for 63 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 6: the oil and gas industry. 64 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 5: Katie actually shared some of the audios she recorded during 65 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 5: non physic part. 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 7: Of the way we are made in the demand for 67 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 7: more energy here in the United States is we've had 68 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 7: some transformative of technological advances. It used to be then 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 7: in a section we would drill thirty six holls straight 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 7: down the draft, thousands of feet in the early two thousands, 71 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 7: an engineer from Texas, George Mitchell, and then at the 72 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 7: drilling loder that would go down thousands of feet and 73 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 7: turn out horizontally or laterally, they call it kicking out. 74 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 7: Today we have wells that kick out up to two miles. 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 7: So when he did that, that changed everything. They combined 76 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 7: horizontal drilling with something we've been doing. 77 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 3: For a long time, hydro All Oh my god, that's unbelievable. 78 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: But we've been hearing about this sort of thing, right 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: Natural Gas Company is heading out pamphlets and schools sending 80 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 3: people out to talk to the youth. 81 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, totally, but usually they focus on either how 82 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 5: great it is to work the oil and gas industry 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 5: or on skewing the science in some way. Katie ended 84 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 5: up writing about how American schools teach climate change in 85 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 5: her new book, Miseducation, and she included something from this 86 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 5: woman's presentation that really just floored me, especially when you 87 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 5: keep in mind that this was a seventh grade class. 88 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 6: A lot of what she was talking about was kind 89 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 6: of legitimate information, like, you know, how oil is taken 90 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 6: from the ground and the machinery that does that, and 91 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 6: kind of the geology of it all. But then she 92 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 6: got into talking about carbon emissions, and she didn't really 93 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 6: explain what carbon emissions were. She didn't explain why they 94 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 6: might be a problem. She said that it would be 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 6: a problem, but she didn't explain anything about global warming 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 6: or climate change. But instead immediate immediately launched into this 97 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 6: list of all the problems that exist with all of 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 6: the different fuels. So, like's solar. If it's cloudy, you 99 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 6: don't get energy, and wind mills kill birds and so on. 100 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 5: Here's that part of the lobbyist presentation. 101 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 7: But with any source, I mean, like this problems with 102 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 7: fossil fuels in terms of carbonission. 103 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 8: There's problems with all these energies. 104 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 7: Sort of, somebody's gonna have a problem with it. 105 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 9: Uh. 106 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 7: Geofile powers right, super expensive. The parts of the layer 107 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 7: that they did works really wet, but it's expensive. 108 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 10: Solar. 109 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 7: The p what that the materials they use to make 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 7: solar caws some sometime when you have a chance to 111 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 7: look up rare earth minerals. 112 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: Nice, some of those some of these space. 113 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 7: They make them with are not things that you would 114 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 7: want laying around in your yap. Another thing, solar is 115 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 7: a tornado, what happens the. 116 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 8: Solar feeling, So. 117 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 11: Wind power lot invent. 118 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 7: Because I say it's burked that. You know, there's somebodys 119 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 7: have a problem, don't lot haital powers. 120 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 12: I'd say that we shouldn't be damn. 121 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 5: About bodies and lot luck of them on biomass. 122 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 7: Because I said we shouldn't be growing food for fuel 123 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 7: when they are people starting on there. So you're gonna 124 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 7: find a problem in any. 125 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: One of these sources. 126 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 6: And then she talks about how important fossil fuels are 127 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 6: to the world and how how they've lifted people out 128 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 6: of poverty, and if we stop using fossil fuels, we'll 129 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 6: leave a whole bunch of people in poverty, according to her, 130 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 6: which is not supported by evidence, but you know that 131 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 6: was the narrative that she was telling. So she was 132 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 6: talking about how when you're considering energy, you have to 133 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 6: do some thinking about your value. She says, first of all, 134 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 6: you need to decide your standard of value. You need 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 6: to decide is human life the most important? Humans getting healthier, wealthier, happier, 136 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 6: living longer, or is prison team nature more important? Do 137 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 6: you want to quit building new houses, stop getting stuff 138 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 6: out of the ground, do we want to leave it 139 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 6: exactly as it is, because that would be difficult. Thankfully, 140 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 6: we don't have to choose in this country. We are 141 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: working in a happy medium at this point. 142 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: A happy medium. Tell that to all the people evacuating 143 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: hurricanes and fires and floods this year. And this really 144 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: gets to the heart of what we wanted to focus 145 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: on in this series, because you're right, we know a 146 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: little bit about how oil companies try to shape the 147 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 3: way kids understand the problem and the science, and that's 148 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 3: really bad. But then there's this other thing that seems 149 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: so much more insidious and potentially like an even bigger problem. 150 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, this way the industry positions itself in the 151 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 5: world and in people's lives and in the economy, and 152 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 5: the way it tries to frame what is or isn't possible. 153 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 5: It's like all the solutions to climate change have been 154 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 5: narrowed before we even start. 155 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: So that's what we're to look at in this series. 156 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: Why and how the fossil fuel industry invaded social science 157 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: curricula and what impact that's had on how Americans approached 158 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: these big problems like climate change and how to stop 159 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 3: climate change. 160 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 5: Over the next four episodes will trace the industry's influence 161 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 5: from elementary schools through to universities. But first, how did 162 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 5: the fossil fuel industry get into schools in the first place. 163 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 5: That's today's story coming up after this quick break. 164 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 9: And using the magic of research. Oil companies compete with 165 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 9: each other in taking the petroleum molecular parts and real 166 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 9: arranging it into where you name it. Fabriaks, tooth brushes, tires, insecticides, cosmetics, wheatkillers, 167 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 9: a whole galaxy of things to make a better life 168 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 9: on earth. 169 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 5: And you know it isn't just oil. 170 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 9: Companies that try to outdo each other competing for the 171 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 9: customer's dollar. The same story is true of almost every 172 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 9: successful business enterprise in America. 173 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 13: Some of the miracles of petroleum are familiar to us. All. 174 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 13: We know, for instance, that oil made possible one of 175 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 13: the greatest inventions of history, the internal combustion engine, which 176 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 13: gave us mastery over the air, meant mass transportation for 177 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 13: the world, changed, the face of continence quickened, the very 178 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 13: pulse of civilization provided man with an ease of living. 179 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: Is the magic barrel of your life, and we've opened 180 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 2: it so we can show you some of the modern 181 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: day miracles that it contains. 182 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 5: That were made with the. 183 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: Help of petro chemicals, which means chemicals from petroleum. 184 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 5: The nineteen fifties were a real heyday for corporate sponsored 185 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 5: pro capitalist infotainment. That last one there was called the 186 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 5: Magic Barrel. It's an early example of an industry funded 187 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 5: curriculum used in schools. It was actually a partnership between 188 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: DuPont and the American Petroleum Institute to promote petro chemicals. 189 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 5: The barrel in question is actually an oil barrel. Magic 190 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 5: but you can hear a common thread through all of 191 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 5: these that links oil to capitalism and American idea entity 192 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 5: and reminds you that your entire life revolves around this stuff. 193 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 12: There are very interesting common themes. You know, energy is 194 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 12: vital to your life. Your whole existence is dependent on energy. 195 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 12: You better love us, we make energy for you. That's 196 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 12: super effective to show somebody, whether they are conscious of 197 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 12: it or not, how much they're dependent on fossil fuels. 198 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 3: That's Kurt Davies, and he's the founder and director of 199 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 3: the Climate Investigation Center. He spent the last twenty years 200 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 3: or so researching fossil fuel propaganda, and he's found a 201 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: lot of it in schools. One thing case that he's 202 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: noticed is that oil companies and industry groups like the 203 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: American Petroleum Institute will often combine a curriculum package that's 204 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 3: targeted at kids with these ad campaigns that are meant 205 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 3: for their parents. 206 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 12: So that the ad campaigns that are aimed at the 207 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 12: parents through whether it's American Petroleum Institute or Exxon broadcasting 208 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 12: during sporting events, mimic or mirror what we see in 209 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 12: these curricula packages of showing how how cool energy is, 210 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 12: how it creates jobs, how it's the lifeblood of our economy, 211 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 12: how we can't live without it, and how changing that 212 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 12: would hurt you. 213 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 5: There are some early examples in the nineteen forties of 214 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 5: Standard Oil and the American Petroleum Institute sending materials to 215 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 5: schools that are very pro oil and pro industry, but 216 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 5: the practice seems to have really ramped up during the 217 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 5: Cold War in the nineteen fifties, when the industry felt 218 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 5: the need to remind Americans over and over again how 219 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 5: prosperous and happy oil and capitalism had made them. Then 220 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 5: you see this same sort of messaging explode again in 221 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 5: the nineteen seventies as a reaction to the social movements 222 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 5: of the nineteen sixties. There's this incredible series that Phillips 223 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 5: Petroleum commissioned called American Enterprise. 224 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 14: When we needed coal and iron, the raw materials of 225 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 14: the Industrial Revolution, we had them right under our feet. 226 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 5: There were huge It came out in the nineteen seventies 227 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 5: and it's hosted by William Shatner, and it just kind 228 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 5: of very subtly and persistently delivers this message that America 229 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 5: is great because of extraction and capitalism. 230 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 14: Sources here in our backyard. When we needed petroleum, we 231 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 14: had it, black gold in Pennsylvania and the Southwest. When 232 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 14: we needed uranium for nuclear power, we had it. Our 233 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 14: hills hold enough to last for centuries. The land has 234 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 14: provided on a grand scale. This open pit copper mine 235 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 14: and Utah you're looking at is so large you can 236 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 14: see it from the moon. Thanks to the Earth's bounty, 237 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 14: we've increased and multiplied at a rate unmatched by any 238 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 14: nation in history. 239 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that whole series is really something, and not just 240 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: because you hear William Shatner's voice in it so much. 241 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 3: And we know from marketing reports that this was sent 242 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: out to more than half of America. At high schools 243 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: in the nineteen seventies. Obviously that wasn't the only thing 244 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: that people were learning about in terms of economics or 245 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 3: politics or natural resources in high school, I hope. But 246 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 3: that's still a lot of people who are getting the 247 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: same narratives that you now hear really often in response 248 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: to climate policy proposals. 249 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, so, okay, you see this pattern throughout history where 250 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 5: the industry steps up certain types of curricula when they 251 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 5: feel ideologically threatened, and there are lots of reasons they 252 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 5: might want to have a hand in shaping the minds 253 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 5: of future voters and politicians. But why would schools go along. 254 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: Well, we kind of heard the same thing from everyone. 255 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 12: Education's underfunded, so that's a vulnerability. 256 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 6: I remember talking to one person who was like, look, 257 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 6: I barely have three minutes in the day to pee, 258 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 6: So if somebody sends me this lesson plan and it's 259 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 6: like really well produced and looks very professional, I might 260 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 6: use it. 261 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 12: So these people who make their own curriculum take advantage 262 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 12: of that. They give away free lesson plans. That's great 263 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 12: if you're a teacher and you suddenly get this whole 264 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 12: kit that's set up for you to teach science through 265 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 12: teaching about energy or teach you know, teach about economics. 266 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 12: It's like easy, easy stuff. 267 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 6: And what they usually do some of them are like 268 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 6: outright climate denial, but then there's a lot of materials 269 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 6: that are much subtler and you wouldn't necessarily catch if 270 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 6: you weren't really looking for it. 271 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So teachers are overworked and underpaid, and at 272 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 3: the same time, schools are underfunded. So if you're producing 273 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: this really slight looking curricula, it's really not that hard 274 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: to get it into schools. And then we also found 275 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: in our research that companies have targeted groups like the 276 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 3: National Science Teachers of America and even the Department of 277 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: Energy to get them all to push these really industry 278 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: friendly curricula. And Katy talks about another type of organization too. 279 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 6: There's an organization called the National Energy Education Development Project. 280 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 6: I think their whole purpose is to create educational materials 281 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 6: about energy, which seems like a good thing, you know, 282 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 6: and they talk about energy conservation. They talk about every 283 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 6: all kinds of energy, including some renewables, which, like in theory, 284 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 6: sounds like a good thing. But they are sponsored by 285 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 6: all of these energy companies and some of them are 286 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 6: you know, wind or solar companies, but most of them 287 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 6: are fossil fuel companies and that's how they get the 288 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 6: vast majority of their budget. And so they told me 289 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 6: that they aren't influenced by their sponsors. But then if 290 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 6: you actually look at the materials they produce, it's really 291 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 6: industry friendly. And so like, for example, they have this 292 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 6: whole set of these packets of things of activities and 293 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 6: lessons for different age groups about all the different energy sources, 294 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 6: and there's like fourteen pages of information and activities about petroleum. 295 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 6: Nowhere in those materials is carbon dioxide mentioned. Climate change 296 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 6: isn't mentioned, and the only environmental impacts they do talk 297 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 6: about environmental impact, but what they talk about is water 298 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 6: pollution or air pollution. And then they say, I'm going 299 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 6: to quote this directly, and then there's a paragraph there 300 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 6: is the petroleum industry works hard to protect the environment. 301 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 6: Gasoline and diesel fuel have been changed to burn cleaner, 302 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 6: and oil companies work to make sure that they drill 303 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 6: and transport oil as safely as possible. 304 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 5: Wow, so this really gets us back to what's in 305 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 5: it for the industry. For more on that, we had 306 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 5: Carol Muffett, President and CEO of the Center for International 307 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 5: Environmental Law, walk us through a presentation he found where 308 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 5: a well known oil industry consultant laid out why investing 309 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 5: in building education programs was a good idea for the industry. 310 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 5: Carol took us to Zoom School. 311 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 10: This presentation is being presented against the backdrop of an 312 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 10: industry that has been doing this aggressively and somewhat successfully 313 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 10: for years. And I think it's really important to know 314 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 10: that the presentation is given by a guy named John Tobin, 315 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 10: who whose expertise was not in education. His expertise was 316 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 10: in speculating about oil and gas. But he brought something 317 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 10: valuable to the table. And nowhere is that value there 318 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 10: than in the names of the inaugural board members that 319 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 10: signed on to his. 320 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 12: Energy literacy project. 321 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 10: Now Here was was a tiny, tiny nonprofit. But he's 322 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 10: got senior executives from Chevron and Phillips both on his board. 323 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 10: He's got an executive the head of a co funded 324 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 10: think tank that advocated for property rights and free market environmentalism. 325 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 10: He had Pennsylvanian Power and Light, which was a major 326 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 10: coal plant operator at the time, and a member of 327 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 10: the Global Climate Coalition. 328 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 3: I think it's really important for everyone listening to kind 329 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 3: of have a picture in their minds of what this 330 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 3: presentation looks like, because it's really something. There's a black 331 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: background and this weird Neon orb thing at the top 332 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 3: of every page. 333 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 5: It's truly, truly a lot, very very good example of 334 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 5: like late nineties, early two thousands graphic skills. 335 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 3: And there's all these quo and clip art and these 336 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 3: bizarre stock photos. This one side that I love just 337 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: has an illustration of it elephant, with the saying when 338 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 3: eating an elephant, take one bite at a time. 339 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 8: So deep. 340 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 3: But then there's this one thing that this guy, John Tobin, 341 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: who made the presentation, seems to really want to drive 342 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: home to people, and that's something that he calls the 343 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: three e's, and that's energy, economy, and environment and they're 344 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: in that order for a reason. 345 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 5: Okay, back to Zoom School. 346 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 10: I want to start by both talking about the threes 347 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 10: and highlighting what the three ees means for industry. And 348 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 10: Tobin's presentation is compelling because it's so very explicit about 349 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 10: that the three e's that we're pushed into classrooms by 350 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 10: Excellent Mobile for decades stood for energy, economy, and environment 351 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 10: and in that order, and we'll talk about why that 352 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 10: order is important as we go along. This presentation is 353 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 10: making the case for why those three e's are so 354 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 10: important to the industry in itself. What Chobin highlights is 355 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 10: that the oil and gas industry suffers from severe image problems, 356 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 10: and educating around the three e's is key to addressing 357 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 10: those image problems and with it, making the companies themselves 358 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 10: more profitable. 359 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 5: Next line, there are more than fifty slides in his presentation, 360 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 5: so we're going to skip ahead to the highlights. 361 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 10: And again bear in mind that he's speaking on behalf 362 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 10: of an organization that has senior executives for many of 363 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 10: the industry's largest companies behind it. What they're looking to 364 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 10: instill is a belief in a twenty eighth amendment that 365 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 10: the people's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of 366 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 10: happiness shall be fueled by cheap and abundant energy, yet 367 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 10: again equating energy not only with the economy, but with 368 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 10: liberty and freedom itself. This presentation happened in the wake 369 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 10: of what was in fact a major victory for these programs, 370 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 10: because in the Energy Policy Act of two thousand and five, 371 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 10: which was recognized at the time to be filled with 372 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 10: massive giveaways to the oil and gas industry, and part 373 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 10: of what was incorporated were provisions for millions of dollars 374 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 10: for educational programs focused specifically on the three e's on energy, 375 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 10: economy and environment. 376 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 5: Okay, hold up a minute. 377 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: I just want to make sure that everyone caught that 378 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: the US government put millions of dollars toward pro oil 379 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: industry energy education in two thousand and five, So a 380 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 3: good like thirty forty years after several signed has had 381 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 3: already been sounding the alarm about climate change. 382 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, and after world leaders had agreed to come together 383 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 5: and reduce emissions because everyone understood the problem was that bad, 384 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 5: until the US just said, just getting we're out. 385 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 3: You're talking about the Kyoto Protocol, of course, And yeah, 386 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 3: this is two thousand and five. So that's just a 387 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: few years after the US Senate voted ninety five to 388 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 3: zero against ratifying Kyoto, and our lovely President George W. 389 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 3: Bush officially pulled out of the agreement. And now the 390 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 3: government wasn't just not taking any action, it was actually 391 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: funding an industry friendly take on energy education in American schools. 392 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 10: And at the moment that he's presenting to ask THEE 393 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 10: what he's acknowledging here is that between DOE and IOGCC, 394 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 10: which is the independent oily gas companies, there were more 395 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 10: than three hundred active school outreach programs, and I think 396 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 10: most fundamentally, you see the explicit equation of the economy 397 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 10: with freedom. The economy is economic growth, the economy is freedom. 398 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 10: And when you know that economic growth is dependent on energy, 399 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 10: anything that you do to restrict the growth of energy 400 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 10: is restricting the growth of the economy and is a 401 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 10: threat to your freedom. Again, the targets for this were 402 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 10: kids from kindergarten through college. And when you do that, 403 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 10: when you take your message and you put it in 404 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 10: the mouth of someone who is teaching your children, who 405 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 10: children are told to believe and to trust, it is 406 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 10: among the most insidious and among the most effective forms 407 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 10: of propaganda. And we are still dealing with and reeling 408 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 10: from decades of that propaganda. 409 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 5: That last part really really hits home for me, because 410 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 5: when you think about especially little kids, I mean, you 411 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 5: really trust what your teachers tell you in school, at 412 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 5: least for a while. 413 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: Yes, it's so cynical, and it's honestly, really smart of them. 414 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: I was really struck by how much funding was going 415 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 3: into this and how many government programs there were at 416 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: that point and probably now too, honestly, but the fact 417 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 3: that there were over three hundred back in two thousand 418 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 3: and five, that's pretty incredible. 419 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 9: Yeah. 420 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 5: One thing that really struck me in looking not just 421 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 5: at this presentation that Carol Muffett was talking about, but 422 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 5: also at various materials that we found, is that they're 423 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 5: just filled with what sociologists have started to call discourses 424 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 5: of delay. That term comes from this paper that came 425 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 5: out last year. It was written by an economist named 426 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 5: Will Lamb and several other economics and social science researchers 427 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 5: who just started to pull together examples of messages like 428 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 5: these that the industry uses and that we see over 429 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 5: and over and start to catalog them and categorize them 430 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 5: into groups. 431 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. So these are these messages that have sort of 432 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: taken the place of straight up climate denial. 433 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 8: Amy. 434 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 3: It's done some great writing on that, and a lot 435 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 3: of them have been around for like a century or more. 436 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 3: There are things like the importance of fossil fuels in America, 437 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: or how on top of problems. The fossil fuel industry 438 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 3: is or how so called cheap energy. It keeps everyone 439 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 3: out of poverty. Here's Carol Muffet again. 440 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 8: We see Exxon Mobile having pushed its energy Cube training 441 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 8: materials into schools across the country for decades, making Exxon's 442 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 8: Energy Cube one of the most widely used educational resources 443 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 8: in the entire United States for literally tens of years. 444 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 8: And so the question becomes, what is that energy cube? 445 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 8: The energy queube stood for energy economy and the environment, 446 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 8: and the entire strategy behind it, and we see the 447 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 8: oil industry push this over and over again is to 448 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 8: mainstream with kids. The idea that energy is absolutely essential 449 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 8: to not only the economy but ultimately to freedom, That 450 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 8: you can't have a functioning economy without energy, that anything 451 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 8: that accordingly, anything that restricts or regulates energy has an 452 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 8: immediate effect on the economy. And therefore, whenever you talk 453 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 8: about the environmental impacts of energy production in any form, 454 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 8: you immediately have to aweigh those environmental impacts against their 455 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 8: presumed economic impact. 456 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 3: Does that all sound familiar? 457 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 5: I mean, it's really striking to me just how often 458 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 5: you hear these exact talking points, even from moderate Democrats 459 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 5: who think we do need to do some thing on climate, 460 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 5: but it's like they just have this framework in their heads. 461 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 5: It's been a super effective strategy, and one of the 462 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 5: reasons that's been effective is exactly this thing that Katie 463 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 5: Worth was talking about. It's not denial, so it kind 464 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 5: of has this veneer of credibility. 465 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 11: You're allowed to legitimately discuss delay in mainstream context. So 466 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 11: it's more difficult to promote climate denial these days, I 467 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 11: think because, for example, the BBC has now quite strict 468 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 11: guidance on the kind of balance that it's going to 469 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 11: offer in its interviews around climate change, so they don't 470 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 11: invite on a dissenting view on climate science anymore. 471 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 5: This is Will Lamb, the lead author of that Discourses 472 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 5: of Delay paper, and. 473 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 11: I think that's happened more and more and now it's 474 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 11: more difficult to discuss through denial in the public arena. 475 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 11: But delay is tricky. Delay is tricky because often there 476 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 11: are grains of truth in delay arguments, and often you 477 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 11: can pose it as really a legitimate discussion on what 478 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 11: the shape of climate policy should look like. 479 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: Right, So then the issue becomes like if we want 480 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 3: to separate the credible stuff from the industry talking points. 481 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: Do we need all teachers to be these experts in 482 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: climate disinformation? That's just completely unrealistic. 483 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 5: Totally if Like, one of the reasons that this has 484 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 5: worked so well is a teachers are stretched really thin 485 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 5: and schools are underfunded. Like the solution can't be that 486 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 5: they need to take on more work and become experts 487 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 5: in this field. So, you know, you can see how 488 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 5: being bombarded with all of this reasonable sounding stuff about 489 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 5: trade offs and the need to keep energy affordable and 490 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 5: how on top of environmental issues the industry is might 491 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 5: lead to a whole lot of inaction on climate. But 492 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 5: that's not the only reason fossil fuel companies do this stuff, 493 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 5: is it, Darna? That's right, there's more. 494 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: Here's Kurt again. 495 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 12: Why do they need this? Because they want to be 496 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 12: more popular than they are. You know, most people do 497 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 12: oil industries not very popular. The coal industry is not 498 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 12: very popular, or they bemoan the fact that nobody knows 499 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 12: where they where you get your electricity and they want 500 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 12: people to understand that. So, I mean, you have these 501 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 12: fossil fuel interests or electric utilities, coal oil interests who. 502 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: Have been. 503 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 12: Craving attention and craving acceptance and social license for a 504 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 12: good long time, and they have tried to do that 505 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 12: with a variety of things, and often in conjunction they'll 506 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 12: do curriculum, but they also are doing an ad campaign 507 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 12: on television or in local newspapers. 508 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: And then Carol Muffett, again from the Center for International 509 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 3: Environmental Law, pointed out that schools are also really big 510 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 3: recruitment targets for the oil industry, especially now when fewer 511 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 3: and fewer younger people are interested in working for them 512 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 3: for obvious reasons. In twenty fourteen, former ex ON CEO 513 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 3: and later Trump administration appointee Rex Tillerson actually talked pretty 514 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: openly about the role that education can play in this 515 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 3: really really gross way. He said that schools are quote 516 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 3: producing a product, and that product is the students going 517 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 3: into the workforce. 518 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 8: To summarize Rex Tillerson, the oil industry got involved in 519 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 8: education because for the oil industry, the students are the product. 520 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 8: And I think when Tillerson said that, he was obviously 521 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 8: talking in the context of workers and future workers and prospects. 522 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 8: But what you see when you look at the history 523 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 8: of the oil industry's engagement in education is that for 524 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 8: the oil industry, the students are the product in a 525 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 8: much more profound and extensive and pervasive. 526 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 5: Way that Yeah, that really is really is gross. Okay, 527 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 5: So I don't want to end this episode without talking 528 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 5: about a side of the school curriculum game that people 529 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 5: might not necessarily think of, and that's universities. 530 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 12: Right. 531 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: So oil company is actually fund research centers at like 532 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 3: all the top schools MIT Harvard, Stanford. But that's not 533 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: the only way that they get involved on university campuses either. 534 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. They also fund chairs in economic departments 535 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 5: or law schools, or programs at public policy schools. Oil 536 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 5: companies were actually among the first to see universities as 537 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 5: a huge opportunity. So there was this kind of small, 538 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 5: seemingly obscure tax law change in the fifties that made 539 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 5: corporate donations to universities a write off, and that prompted 540 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 5: a little bit of an increase in sort of industry 541 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 5: funding at the university level. But a lot of corporations 542 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 5: just kind of saw it as a tax break. And 543 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 5: there was this VP at Standard Oil of New Jersey, 544 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 5: which is now Exonmobile. His name is Frank Abrams, and 545 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 5: he started to really see this as a golden opportunity 546 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 5: for way more than just some nice tax breaks. So 547 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 5: he started talking to everyone in the oil industry and 548 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 5: beyond about, you know, really what they could do. 549 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 6: Here. 550 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 5: I found this speech of his from nineteen fifty three 551 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 5: where he's like, yeah, yeah, the tax break is great, 552 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 5: but don't forget all this other stuff. So he says, 553 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 5: the important thing is that corporate gifts should be made 554 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 5: when the direct or indirect benefits, and I want to 555 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 5: underscore indirect benefits are worth more to the company than 556 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 5: the costs after tax adjustments. And then he goes on 557 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 5: to give an example of one of these great indirect benefits. 558 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 5: He says, there is a tendency on the part of 559 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,959 Speaker 5: some people to call on the government to take over 560 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 5: more and more functions and responsibilities born previously by citizens. 561 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 5: My observation of political history both here and abroad during 562 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 5: forty years with Standard Oil Company provides evidence of how 563 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 5: the sinking can develop. Even in a soil like ours 564 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 5: where the tradition of democracy and free enterprise is well developed. 565 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 5: Each time government takes over a new function, the free 566 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 5: society shrinks by that much a step has been taken 567 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 5: towards statism, a system holding great dangers for the general 568 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 5: wellbeing of the country and incidentally for stockholders, investments and corporations. 569 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 5: This is a problem with great dimension. 570 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 8: In my view. 571 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 5: But I think finally we can rely on a prudent 572 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 5: and mature people, that is, an educated people to deal 573 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 5: properly with it. 574 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 3: So yeah, it seems like oil executives and oil companies 575 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 3: have really been worried about creeping socialism for a long time. 576 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 5: They really really have been, and they really spent decades 577 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 5: looking to use education as a tool to solidify their 578 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 5: position in society. That's it for this time. We're taking 579 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 5: you to school. In this collaboration between Drilled and Earther, 580 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 5: Darna and I have found a lot of really interesting 581 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 5: and shocking things, so stay with us. Drilled is an 582 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 5: original production of the Critical Frequency podcast Network. This series 583 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 5: is a collaboration with Earther gis motos Climate and Justice site. 584 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 5: My co host and co reporter for the series is 585 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 5: Darna nor. Our producer is Juliana Bradley. Our factchecker is 586 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 5: Trevor Gowan. Music is by Martin Wissenberg, and our artwork 587 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 5: was created by Matthew Fleming. Our First Amendment attorney is 588 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 5: James Wheaton, founder and director of the First Amendment Project. 589 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 5: You can find corresponding stories, videos, and documents for this 590 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 5: series on earther dot com. 591 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.