WEBVTT - #111 Jason Flom with Stefon Morant 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.040 In the late eighties and early nineties, Stefan Morant and 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.600 his best friend Scott Lewis were dealing drugs for local 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.000 New Haven drug kingpin Frank Persi, who was going away 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.280 on a weapons charge. When Paris asked Scott to take 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.200 a larger role in his business, Scott refused, a decision 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.200 that would alter the course of his in Stefan's lives forever. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.560 On October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven, Connecticut alderman 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.680 Ricardo Turner and his lover Mamont Fields were shot and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:38.720 killed while they lay in bed. Now meet Detective Vincent Rauschi, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.880 a detective involved in Pereise's drug game who would pin 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.760 this double homicide on Scott Lewis for Perize. Rauchi put 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.680 pressure on Stefan to extract the false confession that Stefan 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:56.240 would recant the very next day. His refusal to participate 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.400 in Scott Lewis's wrongful conviction would seal him to the 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:06.440 same fate. So now we have a double homicide. Politicians 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.560 and law enforcement entangled in the drug game of a 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:14.840 local mafioso kingpin, Frank Perezi. But eventually the FBI and 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.720 a whole bunch of Yale and Columbia law students under 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:22.119 Professor Brett Dignam save the day, bringing down the entire 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.320 house of cards and setting Stefan and Scott free after 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.320 they had served over twenty years in prison for crimes 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:42.920 that they did not commit. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.880 back to wrongful conviction. Fasten your seat belts and listen up, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.680 because the story of Stefan Moran includes a tangled web 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.160 of a drug gang, a politician who turned up dead 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.480 with his male lover in his bed, a corrupt detective 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.960 who was in on the drug dealing as well and 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.320 who ended up framing you Stefan not to mention a 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.000 false confession, an incentivized witness who we know now was 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.480 mentally ill and who lied through his teeth and changed 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.720 his story multiple times, a' mafia kingpin in case all 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.320 that other stuff wasn't enough for you, And finally a 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.520 good judge who ironically was named Hate. I mean, you 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.560 can't even make this stuff up. And our featured guest 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.359 today is Stefan Morant, who lived through this nightmare. So Stefan, 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:31.360 welcome to the show. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:31.960 Thank you. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.840 So let's go back to the beginning. I mean, this 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:42.280 is a Connecticut story and the backs are that on 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.680 October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven alderman named Ricardo 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.760 Turner and his lover Lamont Fields were shot and killed 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.720 in their bed, and that's where our story starts. So 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.400 back in nineteen ninety, you were a kid, you were 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:02.480 twenty one about yes, and you were you know, you 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.440 were hustling, right, yes, but you weren't killing anybody, absolutely not, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.959 and you certainly weren't killing Ricardo Turner and Lamont Fields. Okay, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.880 so how does this start? Because you ended up getting 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.720 into the crosshairs of a I want's say, corrupt detective. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.400 I mean corrupt would be too light of a word 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.840 for this guy Rouci. I mean you weren't his only victim. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.680 There were tons. Yes, he's sort of like a character 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.680 along the lines of that guy out in Brooklyn who 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.800 framed so many of those people. Stefan set the stage 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.800 for us as to this crazy cast of characters in 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.280 the New Haven drug market at the time that this 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.320 double murder went down, because this was a culmination of 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.160 a lot of other factors. So can you give us 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:45.920 an overview? 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.400 There was a lot of different what you may call, 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:52.480 I guess organizations, guys selling on different blocks. I was 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.960 working with Scott and he was getting drugs from this 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.400 guy by the name of Frank Pereisi from out of 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.320 the Fay of Heightst Area. That's who detective she used 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.000 to work for. I think the reason why me and 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.160 Scott got framed is because Frank was about to go 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.600 to prison. I think he was sentenced to eighteen years. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.400 So he wanted somebody to take over the organization, and 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:13.680 he picked Scott to take over the organization, and Scott 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.160 wanted to get out of the drug trade. So Scott 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.400 said that he would not do it. And next thing 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.440 you know, me and Scott are being framed for murder. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.279 So how did this cross your consciousness? When did you 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.480 first become entangled in it? 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:29.560 As a young man, I was living with my mother 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.920 at the time. I happened to call my mother in 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.640 between seven thirty and eight o'clock, Me and a couple 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:37.200 all of the guys wherever. He was about to go 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:38.920 to a script club. So I just just calling her 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:40.440 not to tell I was going to script club. 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.839 But you just mom, I'm going to strip club. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.680 We're not doing that. So she tells me that someone 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.920 came by. It was a detective, a couple of them, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.320 so she said they wanted me to call, So I 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.400 was like, I have no problem with calling them, so 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.640 she gave me the number. Happened to be Detective Rachi 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.320 and I think it was a Detective Sweney at the time, 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.039 which came into case later on. And uh, just probably 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.160 by the reason why I'm sent before you to day 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.280 because of the Detective Sweeney. That's another part of the story. 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.320 But so I happened to call him. He's asking me 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.280 could I meet him somewhere, and I said, not a problem. So, uh, 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.359 my cour defended mister Lewis and I and another gentleman 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.800 we jumped into a vehicle. He dropped me off at 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.120 a local gas station around the corner from my mother's home, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:27.800 and he started asking me questions. I was hesitating, a boy, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.839 answering anything because I didn't know what was going on. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.680 He opened the back door and he thrust me in. 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.239 That was the beginning of a nightmare of my life. 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.960 They took me to the new police precinct, sent me 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.000 to the Detective Burrough help me there for hours. At 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.680 the time, brought out police reports, statements, those paper articles, 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.320 and started aksing me the questions about doing anything about 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:52.320 the double homicide. 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:53.440 I said, I did not. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.160 Had you even heard about it in the neighborhoodor anything? 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:57.120 No? I did not. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.720 Yeah, so this is taking you totally off. And you 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:01.600 didn't have a lawyer? 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:02.280 No I did not. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:04.720 Did you read you your rights because you weren't a 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:05.280 suspect yet? 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.440 Or no, I was a suspect. Like I said. 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:09.800 We were at the house drinking and smoking. So we 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.200 was a little little nice you know, before going to 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.280 the script club. Instead of spending all the money in 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.800 the script club, we just to get hired before. So 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.320 we're in the police precinct for hours at the time 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.800 they start threatening me with talking about, oh, you could 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.359 get the death penalty. We'll put you into me an 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.560 other bond. So I'm looking around, like in a room 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.599 such as this, one small little room, you know, how 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.920 do I get out of here? Like if you help us, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.800 we'll help you. We don't want you anyway, we want Lewis. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.599 So and Lewis was Scott Lewis, correct, Scott Lewis was 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.960 your friend, my brother, your brother not from another mother 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.720 from another Okay, So and he had not been picked 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.920 up yet. No, he wasn't right. So you're in there 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:53.600 by yourself. 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:54.080 Correct. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.440 Obviously a scary situation going on, and plus you were 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.560 already a little impaired in the first place. That couldn't help. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.520 Although I'm imagine this would kill your buzz real quick, yes, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.840 but still you didn't have all your wits about you. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.600 I mean, listen, I would like to go back in 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.000 time to that day and shake you by the collar 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.240 and go, dude, call a lawyer, like, tell them you 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:16.960 want a lawyer. That's all you had to do, and 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:18.920 the question would have had to stop. But you didn't 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.560 know that, because most people don't know. I was one 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:21.840 of the reasons why we do the show, because we 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.960 want to tell people what to do if they God 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.040 forbid to end up in a situation like yours. So 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:28.960 this questioning goes on and on and on. You don't 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:30.640 even know. You probably have no sense of time at 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.160 this point. Did you have a watch or anything. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:34.560 I was probably got there, Like I said, it was 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.360 like eight I didn't get out of there until like 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.800 probably like five six hours later, after they gave me 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.920 all this information. It was recording me, of course, and 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.760 it kept stopping the tap. That's not how we want it. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.280 We need you to write the statement correctly, stopping the tape, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.760 starting stopping the tape. After they fined me all this information, 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.360 so I said, I felt my best interest on the 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.840 way I'm to get out of here is to do 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.040 what they want me to do. Because the key thing 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.520 for me was what they said was after you write this, 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.720 you got to come back. So now I see a 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.520 way out. I didn't see a way out before because 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.200 they wasn't give me a way out. I was like, listen, 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.200 I don't know anything about the crime. I need to 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:13.760 leave here and let me go, And they was not 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:14.400 letting me go. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.200 Which is actually against the law as well. They had 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.440 to let you go if you asked me let go, right, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.240 I mean, considering they were willing to break so many 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.000 other rules, they certainly weren't going to abide by that 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.520 one either. So so you give a statement yes, which 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.280 is a statement that they had basically fed you correct, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.400 giving details of the crime that you had no idea about. Correct, 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.640 but that were accurate presumably if they fed them to you. Yes, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.520 And then of course stopping and starting the tape. I mean, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.800 that's right out of a TV show as well. An 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.480 amateur scriptwriter would put that in there, you know. And 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.000 so they end up getting what they want. Did they 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:48.840 then arrest you or did they send you home? 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:50.400 No, they actually let me go. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:51.880 That's crazy. They me. 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.599 They told me to come back because I had just 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.720 signed a statement. So my godmother name is Emma Jones. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.600 She was a lawyer at the time, and I immediately 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.920 went to her home. When I got there, it was 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.520 like three four in the morning. She looked at me 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.120 and I looked at her, and I told her where 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.080 I was coming from, and she said, you did not 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.840 say anything right, And I just put my head down 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.200 and she said, first thing in the morning, we're going 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:20.320 to give representation. And my cousin detected. Pontu was my 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.439 father's first cousin. He called my mother and he knew 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.640 because at the time of the crime, when it actually happened, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.560 I wasn't even living here. I was living in South Carolina, 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.040 actually going back and forth from South Carolina North Carolina. 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.760 So he was aware that I didn't live here at 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.360 the time, so he called my mother. I didn't know 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.679 what we camp meant. So he's like, you have a statement, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.520 down here, tell Stephan come down here. Recan't the statement. 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.600 We know that he wasn't here. He knew he wasn't here. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.480 So I went back to the detective place. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:49.800 With my mother. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.320 A detective came out and he was brought the statement 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.360 out for me to sign it. I heard over the 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.280 dispatch because I actually was supposed to meet my cousin 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.520 over there, which was Detective Plantu, and it was like, disregard, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.960 we got this. So the detective came out, He's like, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.920 you have to sign this. So I'm not signing anything. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.600 I said, that's bullshit. I'm not signing it. I'm not 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.480 signing it because it's a lie, it's false information, it's 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.320 not true. It's like, what if you don't sign this, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.240 you can charge your conspiracy. And me and my mother 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.280 just she grabbed a pocketbook and we walk out the door. 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.840 Okay, So this is a bizarre story in a number 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.439 of levels. One is that they let you go in 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.400 the first place, instead of making you sign the statement 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.280 right after you had falsely confessed that. I've never heard 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.800 that one before. There must have been some reason for it, 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.440 but I don't know what it was. By now, this 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:41.520 is the next day. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:43.719 Talking about going back to the police station. It was 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:44.560 a couple of days later. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.120 Now by now you knew the details of the crime. 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:47.959 You knew this was a double murder, you know, super 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.040 serious situation, probably getting extra attention because of the fact 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.880 that one of the dead guys, Ricardo Turner, was a 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:59.079 former alderman, right, so there was probably pressure to solve 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.920 this crime. So now, in these three days that had passed, 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:04.800 did you touch base with Scott Lewis? Did you let 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:05.640 him know what's going on? 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:06.040 Yes? 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.520 I called him actually probably the next day, and I 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.440 told him about it. So he actually called the police 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.800 priescinct and called the detective himself and went down there 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:16.680 and spoke to him. I don't know what the details 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.640 of the conversation were, but he went down there himself. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.040 So what happens next? How does it progress from here 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:29.200 to where you end up getting convicted and serving almost 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:30.360 half your life in prison? 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:31.120 Oh? 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.800 So what was I doing prior to being convicted? H 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.439 So after leaving the police precinct, I went on with 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:37.920 my life. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.160 I was working. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.559 I was working at a piece to place, being a 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.360 delivery guy, and the detective Rachet, he's like, used to 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.320 follow me everywhere. I moved back and forth, you know, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.640 from North Carolina, South Carolina. I moved back down there 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.040 with me and my kid's mother. I formally got arrested 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.000 two years later, so this is nineteen ninety e when 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.880 the crime happened. I got arrested February nineteen ninety two. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.800 My kid's mother, Christie Soben, she was pregnant with my 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.280 sons and we were actually living a favor in North Carolina. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.880 Her mother and father came to pick her up in 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:18.360 December of nineteen ninety one. She was complaining because I was, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.520 of course still in the drug trade. I was going 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.080 back and forth from North Carolina, South Carolina, trying to 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.960 make ends meet selling little bit of drugs. So I 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.960 called her in nineteen ninety two. It happened to be February. Right, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.760 my sons was born in Valentine's Day, twins. One of 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.760 the great yeah, one of the greatest days of my life. 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.560 Of course, it was definitely a blessing. I'm like, I 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.440 got to get back to Connecticut, right, didn't have no warrant, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.160 didn't have no nothing. The last time I heard from 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.199 the detectives when I seen them follow me around and 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.840 the piece of place in other various places like nightclubs 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.520 and stuff like that. So I didn't see him anymore 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.960 because I went back down south. So when I get 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.280 here for my mother home, she lives in New Haven, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.640 I happened to see a K car, you know, police 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.199 detective car. I just knew, you know, what a detective 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.480 car looks like. So I seen them, and I just 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.880 went the opposite way. So I happened to park on 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.360 my car in the communal lot in Derby, Connecticut, and 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.400 me and my friend name was His name is Rob. 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.800 After seeing my boys, I was on my way going 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.400 back to South Carolina. So I was going to pick 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.120 my car up at the communal lot and I seen 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.160 my left tire was flat and looked crazy. 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.000 I just felt something. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.400 And then I seen a guy like in a saville 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.680 with a newspaper up on his face, like nobody reads 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.120 a newspaper like that. Something's not right. So anyway, I 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:40.560 get out of the car. As soon as I get 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.560 out of the car, police come from everywhere. It's like 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.080 the scene out of a movie. My sons was in 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.360 the back, my name was in the back. I was 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.320 in the front. I got out the detectives I was like, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:50.520 they asked me, what was my name? 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:50.839 Myself? 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.199 Of course my name is Steff for Morandom. But I say, you, guys, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:54.640 I got kids in the car that you put your 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.480 guns down. It was like I was in control of 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.480 the situation, but I wasn't because they put their guns down. 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:01.120 I told my name and they're like, oh, you have 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.440 an arrestaurant for doublehomicide. I'm like, what now, I'm arrested 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.320 for dumb ohomicide. Like I believe if I would have 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.520 never came back to Connecticut because what they was doing 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.080 they was about to take Scott to trial. So what 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.160 they did was rest me so they could put pressure 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.720 on me so I could come and testify against mister Lewis. 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:21.680 And that's just not how you say. 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.400 They try to put division between the both of us, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.840 and it didn't work. We both ended up, of course, 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.640 getting convicted. I never testified on them because I'm not 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.120 testifying to a lie. But I ended up getting arrested 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.120 that day. Detective Rotch was the detective that came him 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.200 and another detective and picked me up from the Orange precinct. 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.720 I said, hy, come this bull crap again. So he's like, oh, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:42.120 all we. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.440 Want you to do is tell us that mister Lewis 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.760 committed this crime. You could go home, this warrant could 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.560 go away. I'm like, listen, man, what's my bond? I 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.520 just need to know my bond. That's all I want 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.840 to know. I ended up giving my phone call. I 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.680 called my mother. She wasn't home, so I called my aunt. 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.800 Told my aunt about it, and she called my mother 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.920 let her know. And I was in jail for like 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.640 a few months, and then my mother she bonded me out. 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.600 She put her home up, and I stayed out for 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.560 an additional two years, and then I went to trial 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:12.520 in nineteen ninety four. 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.000 The whole thing is really surreal. I mean for a 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.920 lot of reasons, but also because of in particular because 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.520 of the elapsed time, right because I feel like you're 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.880 listening to you talking about it now, it seems like 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:27.600 it was kind of in the tail liights. You were 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.720 going all your life, You're raising your family, trying to 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.960 make me, doing whatever you can, a little of this, 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.160 a little legitimate stuff, some other stuff. But you weren't 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.400 killing anybody. You weren't even hurting anybody. They had another 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.000 sort of nefarious weapon in their arsenal, which was this 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.640 and another name that could only come out of a 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.840 fictional account, right, this guy Ovill Ruiz like Ovill are 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.160 you getting me with this name now? Orville Oval like evil? 0:15:55.360 --> 0:16:01.000 And Oval? Ruiz gave well, let's call it a co 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.920 werced eyewitness account. He was incentivized, he was coerced. They 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.960 were using a carrot and a stick. He was promised leniency, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.240 and according to Ruiz, he came up with this story. 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:13.480 I imagine the first time you heard about this was 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.000 a trial. Did you know this Ruiz guy? 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.680 Yes, I knew of them well when we sold drugs. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.320 He used to sell drugs. We used to sell drugs. Yes, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.360 we wasn't the best of friends, but I know who 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:25.720 he was. 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.200 So Ruiz came up with a pretty interesting story. He 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.800 said that this alderman, the former Alderman, Ricardo Turner, was 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.680 storing drugs and money for Louis, your co defender for 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.040 his operation in the second four apartment that he lived in, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.400 and that he also owed Lewis money. So, according to Oval, Ruiz, 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.240 I love saying that name over and over again. On 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.600 October tenth and eleventh, nineteen ninety, he claimed that you 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.200 and Lewis discussed the idea that Turner might take the 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:01.240 money and run, and therefore he rode with you guys 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.360 to turn his apartment away in the car while you 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.040 Again this is his account, his false account, but his 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.480 account he claimed that, armed with a three P fifty 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.399 seven and a thirty eight, did you guys force your 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.720 way into Turner's apartment, murdered he and Fields in their bed, 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:16.960 and took the money and the coke got in the 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.040 getaway car. Now this would all be a little bit 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.240 more believable if not for the fact that he was 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.840 promised leniency if he admitted to being the getaway driver. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.159 And you know, he probably didn't even come up with 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.600 this story. They probably came up with it and gave 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:31.000 it to him. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.960 But whatever, Well, you know, at the time of me 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.200 going to trial, this young kid would a background and 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.119 mental health issues. My lawyer at the time subpoena in 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.440 his records, and this guy was talking by he see 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.840 red bean, he see different visions. He's on halladall and 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.760 various drugs for his mental health. So he was not 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:59.119 only thrown and thrusted and given leniency for given false testimony, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.959 but he also was a mental health patient. You know, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.359 I don't even understand how the jury believed this guy. 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.560 So now they had you, guys, they had this guy, 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.560 they had a false confession. You had no shot at trial. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:12.399 Absolutely not. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.280 So you go to trial. You have tried separately from Lewis. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.240 Yes, I have four counts. First, I have five counts, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.760 one count of conspiracy. They dropped that. To the beginning 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.040 of the trial. Two council aid into benin and two 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:24.040 concert felt any murder. 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.080 So when the jury came back in, did you have 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.679 any hope that they would come to the right answer? 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.520 He still believed. Yes, even after everything that happened, you 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:35.120 still believed the justice were going out. 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.200 Of course I did have hope because I didn't do it. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.879 So okay, so take us to that moment. So the 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.880 jury comes in and they read the charges in order, right, right, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.399 So you've already had the one charge dropped. Now you 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.480 have the first two charges and they go not guilty. 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:48.880 Right. 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.040 So after that second not guilty, I'm like, You're like, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.400 I'm going home, Yes, I mean, and then they drop 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:57.160 a bomb on you. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.880 And then a literal almost fell over, literally got rocked back. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.959 I had to catch myself and then I looked at 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:10.000 the Jerry person, you know, he like he shook his head, like, yeah, 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.119 we're convicted you. And then he read it off again 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.160 and looked in his eyes again, and then he put 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:33.480 his head down. The prosecutor, which is he was just 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:38.320 as corrupt as the detective in my eyes. My son's again, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.800 he was twins. They were two years old at the time. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.879