1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: In the late eighties and early nineties, Stefan Morant and 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: his best friend Scott Lewis were dealing drugs for local 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: New Haven drug kingpin Frank Persi, who was going away 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: on a weapons charge. When Paris asked Scott to take 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: a larger role in his business, Scott refused, a decision 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: that would alter the course of his in Stefan's lives forever. 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: On October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven, Connecticut alderman 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: Ricardo Turner and his lover Mamont Fields were shot and 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: killed while they lay in bed. Now meet Detective Vincent Rauschi, 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: a detective involved in Pereise's drug game who would pin 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: this double homicide on Scott Lewis for Perize. Rauchi put 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: pressure on Stefan to extract the false confession that Stefan 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: would recant the very next day. His refusal to participate 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: in Scott Lewis's wrongful conviction would seal him to the 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: same fate. So now we have a double homicide. Politicians 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: and law enforcement entangled in the drug game of a 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: local mafioso kingpin, Frank Perezi. But eventually the FBI and 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of Yale and Columbia law students under 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: Professor Brett Dignam save the day, bringing down the entire 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: house of cards and setting Stefan and Scott free after 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: they had served over twenty years in prison for crimes 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: that they did not commit. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: back to wrongful conviction. Fasten your seat belts and listen up, 24 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: because the story of Stefan Moran includes a tangled web 25 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: of a drug gang, a politician who turned up dead 26 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: with his male lover in his bed, a corrupt detective 27 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: who was in on the drug dealing as well and 28 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: who ended up framing you Stefan not to mention a 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: false confession, an incentivized witness who we know now was 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: mentally ill and who lied through his teeth and changed 31 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: his story multiple times, a' mafia kingpin in case all 32 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: that other stuff wasn't enough for you, And finally a 33 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: good judge who ironically was named Hate. I mean, you 34 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: can't even make this stuff up. And our featured guest 35 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: today is Stefan Morant, who lived through this nightmare. So Stefan, 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. 37 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: Thank you. 38 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: So let's go back to the beginning. I mean, this 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: is a Connecticut story and the backs are that on 40 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven alderman named Ricardo 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Turner and his lover Lamont Fields were shot and killed 42 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: in their bed, and that's where our story starts. So 43 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety, you were a kid, you were 44 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: twenty one about yes, and you were you know, you 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: were hustling, right, yes, but you weren't killing anybody, absolutely not, 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: and you certainly weren't killing Ricardo Turner and Lamont Fields. Okay, 47 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: so how does this start? Because you ended up getting 48 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: into the crosshairs of a I want's say, corrupt detective. 49 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: I mean corrupt would be too light of a word 50 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: for this guy Rouci. I mean you weren't his only victim. 51 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: There were tons. Yes, he's sort of like a character 52 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: along the lines of that guy out in Brooklyn who 53 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: framed so many of those people. Stefan set the stage 54 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: for us as to this crazy cast of characters in 55 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: the New Haven drug market at the time that this 56 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: double murder went down, because this was a culmination of 57 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: a lot of other factors. So can you give us 58 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: an overview? 59 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: There was a lot of different what you may call, 60 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: I guess organizations, guys selling on different blocks. I was 61 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 3: working with Scott and he was getting drugs from this 62 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 3: guy by the name of Frank Pereisi from out of 63 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: the Fay of Heightst Area. That's who detective she used 64 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: to work for. I think the reason why me and 65 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: Scott got framed is because Frank was about to go 66 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: to prison. I think he was sentenced to eighteen years. 67 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 3: So he wanted somebody to take over the organization, and 68 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: he picked Scott to take over the organization, and Scott 69 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: wanted to get out of the drug trade. So Scott 70 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: said that he would not do it. And next thing 71 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: you know, me and Scott are being framed for murder. 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: So how did this cross your consciousness? When did you 73 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: first become entangled in it? 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: As a young man, I was living with my mother 75 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 3: at the time. I happened to call my mother in 76 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: between seven thirty and eight o'clock, Me and a couple 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: all of the guys wherever. He was about to go 78 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 3: to a script club. So I just just calling her 79 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: not to tell I was going to script club. 80 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: But you just mom, I'm going to strip club. 81 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: We're not doing that. So she tells me that someone 82 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: came by. It was a detective, a couple of them, 83 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: so she said they wanted me to call, So I 84 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: was like, I have no problem with calling them, so 85 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: she gave me the number. Happened to be Detective Rachi 86 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: and I think it was a Detective Sweney at the time, 87 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 3: which came into case later on. And uh, just probably 88 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: by the reason why I'm sent before you to day 89 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 3: because of the Detective Sweeney. That's another part of the story. 90 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: But so I happened to call him. He's asking me 91 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 3: could I meet him somewhere, and I said, not a problem. So, uh, 92 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 3: my cour defended mister Lewis and I and another gentleman 93 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: we jumped into a vehicle. He dropped me off at 94 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: a local gas station around the corner from my mother's home, 95 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: and he started asking me questions. I was hesitating, a boy, 96 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 3: answering anything because I didn't know what was going on. 97 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 3: He opened the back door and he thrust me in. 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,239 Speaker 3: That was the beginning of a nightmare of my life. 99 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: They took me to the new police precinct, sent me 100 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: to the Detective Burrough help me there for hours. At 101 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: the time, brought out police reports, statements, those paper articles, 102 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: and started aksing me the questions about doing anything about 103 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: the double homicide. 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: I said, I did not. 105 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: Had you even heard about it in the neighborhoodor anything? 106 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: No? I did not. 107 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is taking you totally off. And you 108 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: didn't have a lawyer? 109 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: No I did not. 110 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: Did you read you your rights because you weren't a 111 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: suspect yet? 112 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: Or no, I was a suspect. Like I said. 113 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: We were at the house drinking and smoking. So we 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: was a little little nice you know, before going to 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 3: the script club. Instead of spending all the money in 116 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 3: the script club, we just to get hired before. So 117 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: we're in the police precinct for hours at the time 118 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: they start threatening me with talking about, oh, you could 119 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 3: get the death penalty. We'll put you into me an 120 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 3: other bond. So I'm looking around, like in a room 121 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 3: such as this, one small little room, you know, how 122 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: do I get out of here? Like if you help us, 123 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: we'll help you. We don't want you anyway, we want Lewis. 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: So and Lewis was Scott Lewis, correct, Scott Lewis was 125 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: your friend, my brother, your brother not from another mother 126 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: from another Okay, So and he had not been picked 127 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: up yet. No, he wasn't right. So you're in there 128 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: by yourself. 129 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: Correct. 130 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: Obviously a scary situation going on, and plus you were 131 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: already a little impaired in the first place. That couldn't help. 132 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: Although I'm imagine this would kill your buzz real quick, yes, 133 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: but still you didn't have all your wits about you. 134 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I would like to go back in 135 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: time to that day and shake you by the collar 136 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: and go, dude, call a lawyer, like, tell them you 137 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: want a lawyer. That's all you had to do, and 138 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: the question would have had to stop. But you didn't 139 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: know that, because most people don't know. I was one 140 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: of the reasons why we do the show, because we 141 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: want to tell people what to do if they God 142 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: forbid to end up in a situation like yours. So 143 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: this questioning goes on and on and on. You don't 144 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: even know. You probably have no sense of time at 145 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: this point. Did you have a watch or anything. 146 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: I was probably got there, Like I said, it was 147 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: like eight I didn't get out of there until like 148 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: probably like five six hours later, after they gave me 149 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 3: all this information. It was recording me, of course, and 150 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: it kept stopping the tap. That's not how we want it. 151 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: We need you to write the statement correctly, stopping the tape, 152 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: starting stopping the tape. After they fined me all this information, 153 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: so I said, I felt my best interest on the 154 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 3: way I'm to get out of here is to do 155 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: what they want me to do. Because the key thing 156 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: for me was what they said was after you write this, 157 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: you got to come back. So now I see a 158 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: way out. I didn't see a way out before because 159 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: they wasn't give me a way out. I was like, listen, 160 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: I don't know anything about the crime. I need to 161 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 3: leave here and let me go, And they was not 162 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: letting me go. 163 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: Which is actually against the law as well. They had 164 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: to let you go if you asked me let go, right, 165 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean, considering they were willing to break so many 166 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: other rules, they certainly weren't going to abide by that 167 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: one either. So so you give a statement yes, which 168 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: is a statement that they had basically fed you correct, 169 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: giving details of the crime that you had no idea about. Correct, 170 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: but that were accurate presumably if they fed them to you. Yes, 171 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: And then of course stopping and starting the tape. I mean, 172 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: that's right out of a TV show as well. An 173 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: amateur scriptwriter would put that in there, you know. And 174 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: so they end up getting what they want. Did they 175 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: then arrest you or did they send you home? 176 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: No, they actually let me go. 177 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: That's crazy. They me. 178 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 3: They told me to come back because I had just 179 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 3: signed a statement. So my godmother name is Emma Jones. 180 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: She was a lawyer at the time, and I immediately 181 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: went to her home. When I got there, it was 182 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: like three four in the morning. She looked at me 183 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 3: and I looked at her, and I told her where 184 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 3: I was coming from, and she said, you did not 185 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 3: say anything right, And I just put my head down 186 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 3: and she said, first thing in the morning, we're going 187 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: to give representation. And my cousin detected. Pontu was my 188 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 3: father's first cousin. He called my mother and he knew 189 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: because at the time of the crime, when it actually happened, 190 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 3: I wasn't even living here. I was living in South Carolina, 191 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: actually going back and forth from South Carolina North Carolina. 192 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 3: So he was aware that I didn't live here at 193 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: the time, so he called my mother. I didn't know 194 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: what we camp meant. So he's like, you have a statement, 195 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: down here, tell Stephan come down here. Recan't the statement. 196 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: We know that he wasn't here. He knew he wasn't here. 197 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: So I went back to the detective place. 198 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: With my mother. 199 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 3: A detective came out and he was brought the statement 200 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 3: out for me to sign it. I heard over the 201 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: dispatch because I actually was supposed to meet my cousin 202 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 3: over there, which was Detective Plantu, and it was like, disregard, 203 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 3: we got this. So the detective came out, He's like, 204 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: you have to sign this. So I'm not signing anything. 205 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: I said, that's bullshit. I'm not signing it. I'm not 206 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: signing it because it's a lie, it's false information, it's 207 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: not true. It's like, what if you don't sign this, 208 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 3: you can charge your conspiracy. And me and my mother 209 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: just she grabbed a pocketbook and we walk out the door. 210 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: Okay, So this is a bizarre story in a number 211 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: of levels. One is that they let you go in 212 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: the first place, instead of making you sign the statement 213 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: right after you had falsely confessed that. I've never heard 214 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: that one before. There must have been some reason for it, 215 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: but I don't know what it was. By now, this 216 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: is the next day. 217 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 2: Talking about going back to the police station. It was 218 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: a couple of days later. 219 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: Now by now you knew the details of the crime. 220 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: You knew this was a double murder, you know, super 221 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: serious situation, probably getting extra attention because of the fact 222 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: that one of the dead guys, Ricardo Turner, was a 223 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: former alderman, right, so there was probably pressure to solve 224 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: this crime. So now, in these three days that had passed, 225 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: did you touch base with Scott Lewis? Did you let 226 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: him know what's going on? 227 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: Yes? 228 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 3: I called him actually probably the next day, and I 229 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 3: told him about it. So he actually called the police 230 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 3: priescinct and called the detective himself and went down there 231 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: and spoke to him. I don't know what the details 232 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 3: of the conversation were, but he went down there himself. 233 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: So what happens next? How does it progress from here 234 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: to where you end up getting convicted and serving almost 235 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: half your life in prison? 236 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: Oh? 237 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: So what was I doing prior to being convicted? H 238 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 3: So after leaving the police precinct, I went on with 239 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: my life. 240 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: I was working. 241 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 3: I was working at a piece to place, being a 242 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: delivery guy, and the detective Rachet, he's like, used to 243 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 3: follow me everywhere. I moved back and forth, you know, 244 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: from North Carolina, South Carolina. I moved back down there 245 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: with me and my kid's mother. I formally got arrested 246 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 3: two years later, so this is nineteen ninety e when 247 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: the crime happened. I got arrested February nineteen ninety two. 248 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 3: My kid's mother, Christie Soben, she was pregnant with my 249 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: sons and we were actually living a favor in North Carolina. 250 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 3: Her mother and father came to pick her up in 251 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: December of nineteen ninety one. She was complaining because I was, 252 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: of course still in the drug trade. I was going 253 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 3: back and forth from North Carolina, South Carolina, trying to 254 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: make ends meet selling little bit of drugs. So I 255 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: called her in nineteen ninety two. It happened to be February. Right, 256 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: my sons was born in Valentine's Day, twins. One of 257 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: the great yeah, one of the greatest days of my life. 258 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: Of course, it was definitely a blessing. I'm like, I 259 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 3: got to get back to Connecticut, right, didn't have no warrant, 260 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 3: didn't have no nothing. The last time I heard from 261 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 3: the detectives when I seen them follow me around and 262 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 3: the piece of place in other various places like nightclubs 263 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So I didn't see him anymore 264 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: because I went back down south. So when I get 265 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 3: here for my mother home, she lives in New Haven, 266 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 3: I happened to see a K car, you know, police 267 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 3: detective car. I just knew, you know, what a detective 268 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: car looks like. So I seen them, and I just 269 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: went the opposite way. So I happened to park on 270 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: my car in the communal lot in Derby, Connecticut, and 271 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: me and my friend name was His name is Rob. 272 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: After seeing my boys, I was on my way going 273 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: back to South Carolina. So I was going to pick 274 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: my car up at the communal lot and I seen 275 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: my left tire was flat and looked crazy. 276 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: I just felt something. 277 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 3: And then I seen a guy like in a saville 278 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: with a newspaper up on his face, like nobody reads 279 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 3: a newspaper like that. Something's not right. So anyway, I 280 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 3: get out of the car. As soon as I get 281 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: out of the car, police come from everywhere. It's like 282 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: the scene out of a movie. My sons was in 283 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: the back, my name was in the back. I was 284 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 3: in the front. I got out the detectives I was like, 285 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 3: they asked me, what was my name? 286 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 2: Myself? 287 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 3: Of course my name is Steff for Morandom. But I say, you, guys, 288 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 3: I got kids in the car that you put your 289 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: guns down. It was like I was in control of 290 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: the situation, but I wasn't because they put their guns down. 291 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 3: I told my name and they're like, oh, you have 292 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: an arrestaurant for doublehomicide. I'm like, what now, I'm arrested 293 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 3: for dumb ohomicide. Like I believe if I would have 294 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 3: never came back to Connecticut because what they was doing 295 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: they was about to take Scott to trial. So what 296 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 3: they did was rest me so they could put pressure 297 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 3: on me so I could come and testify against mister Lewis. 298 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: And that's just not how you say. 299 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 3: They try to put division between the both of us, 300 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: and it didn't work. We both ended up, of course, 301 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: getting convicted. I never testified on them because I'm not 302 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 3: testifying to a lie. But I ended up getting arrested 303 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 3: that day. Detective Rotch was the detective that came him 304 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: and another detective and picked me up from the Orange precinct. 305 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: I said, hy, come this bull crap again. So he's like, oh, 306 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: all we. 307 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: Want you to do is tell us that mister Lewis 308 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: committed this crime. You could go home, this warrant could 309 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 3: go away. I'm like, listen, man, what's my bond? I 310 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: just need to know my bond. That's all I want 311 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 3: to know. I ended up giving my phone call. I 312 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: called my mother. She wasn't home, so I called my aunt. 313 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 3: Told my aunt about it, and she called my mother 314 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 3: let her know. And I was in jail for like 315 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: a few months, and then my mother she bonded me out. 316 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: She put her home up, and I stayed out for 317 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: an additional two years, and then I went to trial 318 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety four. 319 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: The whole thing is really surreal. I mean for a 320 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: lot of reasons, but also because of in particular because 321 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: of the elapsed time, right because I feel like you're 322 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: listening to you talking about it now, it seems like 323 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: it was kind of in the tail liights. You were 324 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: going all your life, You're raising your family, trying to 325 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: make me, doing whatever you can, a little of this, 326 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: a little legitimate stuff, some other stuff. But you weren't 327 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: killing anybody. You weren't even hurting anybody. They had another 328 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: sort of nefarious weapon in their arsenal, which was this 329 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: and another name that could only come out of a 330 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: fictional account, right, this guy Ovill Ruiz like Ovill are 331 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: you getting me with this name now? Orville Oval like evil? 332 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: And Oval? Ruiz gave well, let's call it a co 333 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: werced eyewitness account. He was incentivized, he was coerced. They 334 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: were using a carrot and a stick. He was promised leniency, 335 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: and according to Ruiz, he came up with this story. 336 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: I imagine the first time you heard about this was 337 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: a trial. Did you know this Ruiz guy? 338 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: Yes, I knew of them well when we sold drugs. 339 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: He used to sell drugs. We used to sell drugs. Yes, 340 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 3: we wasn't the best of friends, but I know who 341 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: he was. 342 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: So Ruiz came up with a pretty interesting story. He 343 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: said that this alderman, the former Alderman, Ricardo Turner, was 344 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: storing drugs and money for Louis, your co defender for 345 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: his operation in the second four apartment that he lived in, 346 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: and that he also owed Lewis money. So, according to Oval, Ruiz, 347 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: I love saying that name over and over again. On 348 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: October tenth and eleventh, nineteen ninety, he claimed that you 349 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: and Lewis discussed the idea that Turner might take the 350 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: money and run, and therefore he rode with you guys 351 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: to turn his apartment away in the car while you 352 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: Again this is his account, his false account, but his 353 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: account he claimed that, armed with a three P fifty 354 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: seven and a thirty eight, did you guys force your 355 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: way into Turner's apartment, murdered he and Fields in their bed, 356 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: and took the money and the coke got in the 357 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: getaway car. Now this would all be a little bit 358 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: more believable if not for the fact that he was 359 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: promised leniency if he admitted to being the getaway driver. 360 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: And you know, he probably didn't even come up with 361 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: this story. They probably came up with it and gave 362 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: it to him. 363 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 3: But whatever, Well, you know, at the time of me 364 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: going to trial, this young kid would a background and 365 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 3: mental health issues. My lawyer at the time subpoena in 366 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 3: his records, and this guy was talking by he see 367 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: red bean, he see different visions. He's on halladall and 368 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: various drugs for his mental health. So he was not 369 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: only thrown and thrusted and given leniency for given false testimony, 370 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 3: but he also was a mental health patient. You know, 371 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: I don't even understand how the jury believed this guy. 372 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: So now they had you, guys, they had this guy, 373 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: they had a false confession. You had no shot at trial. 374 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. 375 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: So you go to trial. You have tried separately from Lewis. 376 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: Yes, I have four counts. First, I have five counts, 377 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: one count of conspiracy. They dropped that. To the beginning 378 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: of the trial. Two council aid into benin and two 379 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: concert felt any murder. 380 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: So when the jury came back in, did you have 381 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: any hope that they would come to the right answer? 382 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: He still believed. Yes, even after everything that happened, you 383 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: still believed the justice were going out. 384 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 2: Of course I did have hope because I didn't do it. 385 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: So okay, so take us to that moment. So the 386 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: jury comes in and they read the charges in order, right, right, 387 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: So you've already had the one charge dropped. Now you 388 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: have the first two charges and they go not guilty. 389 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 2: Right. 390 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: So after that second not guilty, I'm like, You're like, 391 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: I'm going home, Yes, I mean, and then they drop 392 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: a bomb on you. 393 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: And then a literal almost fell over, literally got rocked back. 394 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 3: I had to catch myself and then I looked at 395 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: the Jerry person, you know, he like he shook his head, like, yeah, 396 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 3: we're convicted you. And then he read it off again 397 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: and looked in his eyes again, and then he put 398 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 3: his head down. The prosecutor, which is he was just 399 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 3: as corrupt as the detective in my eyes. My son's again, 400 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: he was twins. They were two years old at the time. 401 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 3: And I didn't see my sons in a while, you know, 402 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: so I didn't bring me to court. I didn't even 403 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: know I was going to court. The prosecutor rise a 404 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 3: fruit basket, he puts them on the table. So my 405 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 3: mother's there. I didn't know my mother's gonna be there, 406 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 3: and my son's are there. So he says to me, 407 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: missed this, of course, what kind of questions? And of 408 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: course I missed my kids, he said, So what you 409 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 3: gonna do about it? I said, listen, I told you before, 410 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 3: I don't know nothing about this. I'm the same way 411 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 3: I'm looking at my son's right here. Mister Lewis has 412 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: kids as well. So I'm gonna just take myself and say, okay, 413 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: I'm gonna lie on the man to take myself out 414 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 3: of prison and put him in prison. 415 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: Possibly. I can't do that. I just can't do that. 416 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: Did he actually tell you that he was willing to 417 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: give you a deal if he would testify against Lewis? 418 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: Or he would just. 419 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: Assume that that's what he told me? 420 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: And what was the deal they offered you? 421 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: He said we would work it out. 422 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: He didn't tell me, well, I'm gonna take thirty five 423 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: I got seventy years now, thirty five years running wild, 424 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 3: which means do this thirty five years and start all 425 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 3: over again. 426 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 2: So what can you offer him? You can't offer me, No, 427 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: you couldn't. 428 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 3: He couldn't have offered me a day because I'm not 429 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 3: gonna sit here and lie on the man for something 430 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: that I didn't do and he didn't do. 431 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: It's just not gonna happen. 432 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: Then that speaks to your character too, because I think 433 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: there's you know, again, no one knows how you would, 434 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: hell anyone would deal with a situation like the one 435 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: that you were in, But you handled it, I mean 436 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: with courage, and you know you did the right thing 437 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: at extreme cost to yourself. So now you're sentenced to 438 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: seventy years and you get taken to prison, I mean, 439 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: how did you get out? I mean, these are the 440 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: things I want to get to here. Because you were 441 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: there for twenty years, twenty one, twenty one years in 442 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: maximum security. Obviously it's felling the murder. 443 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: Yes, I believe that my guy made away, you know, 444 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 3: to mean, of course legal things took place, but people 445 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 3: came back. Like I mentioned to you earlier, Detective Sweeney, 446 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 3: he was a great part in this case. He came 447 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: back after he was in Bosnia in nineteen ninety eight, 448 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, he happened to see my case. I 449 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: was going back for a petition for new trial, and 450 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 3: I had the lawyer by the name of Michael Fitzpatrick 451 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 3: at the time, and he said, I got some good 452 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 3: evidence that's coming, and that was It took another nineteen 453 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 3: ninety nine to twenty fifteen, sixteen more years for the 454 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 3: court to even listen to him. And this is a 455 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: supervisor of Detective Rocchi. That's telling you that the two 456 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: men that you have in prison, if you're going by 457 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 3: the information that was gathered by Detective Rocchi and that 458 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 3: informat that you had that testified in these guys, absolutely not. 459 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: I was Sweeny, was Tective Swing. He came to testify 460 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 3: to that. 461 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: That's so crazy. I'm getting the chills now thinking about it, 462 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: because here you have a senior official in law enforcement 463 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: who is coming forward with no motivation. What could his 464 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: motivation possibly be other than the truth. And they're going, nah, 465 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: we're good, Like yeah, I mean, he's he's one of 466 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: the heroes in this story. 467 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: Right, without a doubt. 468 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: Scott Lewis wrote a letter to the FBI as well 469 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: about Rachi. They looked into it, and every time they did, 470 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: they would find that things were not as he said 471 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: they were, but as you guys said they were. They 472 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: found that Rachi not only framed you in Lewis, but 473 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: that he framed a number of other people. I don't 474 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: think we'll ever know how many, because we know when 475 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: these guys do it, like Scarcella and Brooklyn, they just 476 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: keep doing it and doing it and doing it as 477 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: long as they get away with it, which is why 478 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: it's so important that we tell these stories. And they 479 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: even brought him back Rouchi, they brought him back to 480 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: New Haven to question him, but they never charged him. 481 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: They ended up charging him, this is ridiculous, but they 482 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: charged him for misbuilding his overtime hours and assaulting his 483 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: wife which is a serious crime in my view, and 484 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: yet he received two years probation. So he was dealing drugs, 485 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: framing people for murder, assaulting his wife, and he gets 486 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: two years probation and you end up with seventy years 487 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: for a crime you didn't commit. Another hero in this story, 488 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: and it's interesting because it's a New Haven story. And 489 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: along comes a Yale law professor named Brett Dignam and 490 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: Richard Emmanuel and a whole bunch of law students right 491 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: coming in like the cavalry, all from Yale. And that's 492 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: a pretty good group to have on your side because 493 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: at Yale they don't mess around. There's no question that 494 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: you have an incredible amount of brain power and energy 495 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: devoted to your case. How did they get involved? How 496 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: do they find out about it? 497 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 3: They got involved in Scott case actually two thousand and nine, 498 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 3: and Brett moved from she was the law professor at Yale, 499 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 3: and then she moved to Columbia and then they just 500 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 3: the students. A lot of the students just went along 501 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 3: with her, or she just had some more Columbian students. 502 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 3: I'm not really sure of the whole procedure how it 503 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 3: went down, but they played a big role in this 504 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: getting the conviction. 505 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: Overturned, and finally a good judge who ironically was named Hate. 506 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: The judge Hate huh with a name but a loving guy. 507 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Judge Charles Hate, the US District Judge Charles hat Junior. 508 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: Your team wanted ruling in front of Judge Hate that 509 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: the prosecution had failed to tell the defense and this 510 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: is heavy. You get ready, that the key witness over 511 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Ruiz had repeatedly denied having any knowledge of the murders. 512 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: All of a sudden he had a big memory recall 513 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: after he was offered a deal. But it's important to 514 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: recognize that he was at least initially telling the truth. 515 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: Doesn't excuse his behavior whatsoever, but it does highlight the 516 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: length that they were willing to go to to get 517 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: a conviction. And let us not forget that, of course, 518 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: in your case, like in so many other wrongful conviction cases, 519 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: like whoever it was that went and cold bloodedly gunned 520 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: these two guys down, whether it was one guy, two guys, woman, 521 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: We don't know who it was, right, I don't know 522 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: if you to this day know who it was. 523 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: I don't know who it is. 524 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 3: I mean, they have other suspects that they said they have, 525 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 3: but I don't know if they pushed forward to try 526 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 3: to arrest anybody. I mean, I don't wish nothing bad 527 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 3: on anybody, but whether it's one individual, two or three 528 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 3: individuals still out there. 529 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: So now, what about our public exactly? 530 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: Let's just say it's not unlikely that whoever it was 531 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: that committed this crime went on to commit other terrible 532 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: crimes while you guys were serving the time for them. 533 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: So how did you end up getting out? And why? 534 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure people are listening at home in their cars whatever, 535 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: saying to themselves. But wait a minute, So you had 536 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: this whole dream team all of a sudden, the Avengers 537 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: riding in from Yale. How is it that you were 538 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: never fully exonerated? How did that work? And was that 539 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: because of your false confession? Is that why they refused 540 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: to ultimately admit your innocence? 541 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 3: Actually, mister Lewis, he was released in February March of 542 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: twenty fourteen on a bracelet. The judge hate ordered that 543 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: they release him within the ninety days I think of 544 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 3: after the conviction was overturned in December, well, actually after 545 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: they affirmed it it got overturned then they had to 546 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 3: go to the second Circuit court and then all the 547 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 3: charges was dropped. I think he got exonerated in twenty sixteen, 548 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken. But it went in sequence, like 549 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: one year he got out, the next year, it was affirmed. 550 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 3: Next year. I think he got exonerated. Unlike myself, mister 551 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: Lewis had a dream team and I had a team 552 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: that wasn't fighting for me at all. So push forward 553 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: to a year later after they affirmed for mister Lewis 554 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 3: average released because the attorney said he spoke with the 555 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 3: district attorney and said, oh, I think that I could 556 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 3: talk to him, so talk to him about what like, 557 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 3: why now you're not found the motion for me to 558 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 3: get out of prison because you and mister Lewis cases different. 559 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 3: I said, what you mean? What do you mean different? 560 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 3: We went to We just went to trial differently. The 561 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 3: evidence is the same, we just went to trial at 562 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: different times. I want to be out of release from prison. 563 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 3: I said, how long more do you think this is 564 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 3: gonna take? He said it might take another three years. 565 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 3: What this man's out of prison? You're telling me? I 566 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 3: still got away the additional three years to be released 567 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 3: from prison. He was like, yeah, So what I'm gonna 568 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 3: do is I'm gonna go talk because I'm friends with 569 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 3: the district attorney. So I'm gonna go down there and 570 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: see if he just say, see what could happen. I 571 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 3: think that was a Tuesday. So he came back the 572 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: very next day. He's like, oh, I got good new 573 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 3: from you. 574 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: Going home. 575 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 3: The district attorney said they'd give you time served, but 576 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 3: you have the cop out. I'm thinking, now, my little brother, 577 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: he just passed away, Lupis. I lost my grandfather. I 578 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 3: lost my father, I lost the host of a lot 579 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 3: of friends. My mother's getting older, my children are older. 580 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: You know they Dad, when you're come home. I have 581 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: a wife now that married me for I don't know 582 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 3: why in prison in two thousand and nine, what do 583 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 3: I do between a rock and the harbor place? Do 584 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 3: I sit here and say, listen, I'm gonna fight for 585 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 3: my name to be clear for another three years. There's 586 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: nothing guaranteed in the judicial system. They already failed me once. 587 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: So what do I do. I've always heard that if 588 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 3: you could fight better from the outside than the inside. 589 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: I need to get out. I need to get out 590 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: of here. So I went with the terms in the agreement. 591 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: I mean ignorant, of course, of the repercussions of still 592 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: fighting for my conviction, because I still have a conviction. 593 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 3: Mister lewisis I told you a couple of minutes ago. 594 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 3: Is exonerated, same evidence, just different trial. He's exonerated. I'm struggling. 595 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 3: I just had to get a second job. You know, 596 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: what do you do? You know, I got to survive though, you. 597 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I just hope, I hope that this show 598 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: maybe can be a part of helping you to get 599 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: the justice that you have deserved for or a quarter 600 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: of a century now ever since you were wrongfully arrested 601 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: in the first place, over a quarter of the century, 602 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: almost thirty years, and that you can get a chance 603 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: to get the compensation that you deserve, and that you're 604 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: co defendant has received a significant amount of compensation. A 605 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: lot of guys never get it, you know, a lot 606 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: of guys and women, even whether they're a complete or 607 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: whether they were exonerated. And people ask me all the time, 608 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: and we still only have like thirty two states that 609 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: have compensation statutes, and we're trying to change that because 610 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: I think that everyone who's wrongfully convicted deserves compensation and 611 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: deserves help to get back on their feet, as opposed 612 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: to put in more roadblocks in your way like they're 613 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: doing with you, which I call the second punishment. 614 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: I'm out here and I'm thankful. 615 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: Like again, I mean, I'm thankful that I'm able to 616 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 3: be able to stand on my two feet. I'm able 617 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 3: to go to a job and to go and make 618 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 3: a difference. I don't know if you know, but I 619 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 3: work at a halfway house. You know, it's a part 620 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: of the correctional facility. Like my grandmother was a caregiver, 621 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 3: so I guess I'm following the footsteps of her. I 622 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 3: also just took on another job, working with the mental 623 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 3: health I work at half of healthcare. 624 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: Now. 625 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 3: It's not a lot of money, but it's getting me 626 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: and my wife by because at the end of the day, 627 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: I mean, it's a struggle. Again, mister Lewis was compensated 628 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: for his wrongful conviction. I'm still fighting. I told you 629 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 3: I spoke with you earlier than far as. 630 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: Me and my lawyer. 631 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 3: Right now, we're trying to put together a pardon to 632 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 3: try to see if that the state of Connecticut will 633 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 3: pardon me unusual circumstances. We spoke with various people about it, 634 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 3: so hopefully that this doesn't take forever, that my conviction 635 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: is a return, so I could go on and live 636 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: my life because I can't get job. I was just 637 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: paid well because I have a conviction on my record. 638 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: You know, I'm actually like getting half the pay, you know, 639 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: for somebody didn't do it. I'm still suffering. Sometimes I'd 640 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: be like, yo, why, But then at the end of 641 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 3: the day, why not. I'm not the first person that 642 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: happened to him, won't be the last person that happens. 643 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: To One of the reasons I do this work and 644 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm so obsessed and committed to it, I've been for 645 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: my whole adult life and will be for the rest 646 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: of my adult life, however long that may be, is 647 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: because of people like you. Honestly in awe that people 648 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: like yourself can go through what you went through and 649 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: come out with this and I picked it up when 650 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: we met before is one of the reasons I want 651 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: to have you on the show, because you're such a 652 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: positive guy and you're such a sort of I mean 653 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: to meet you. No one would ever know that you 654 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: had been through anything like this much less, this totally 655 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,719 Speaker 1: insane ordeal. So how did you survive prison? Was it 656 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: as bad as what you were expecting? Was it as 657 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: bad as what people think it is? 658 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 2: Well? 659 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: For me, I have a Christian background, right, My grandmother 660 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: was she just was a faith driven women woman, my mother, 661 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 3: you know, my father used to take me to church 662 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 3: all the time. Actually, the day I got convicted June eighth, 663 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 3: that night when they threw me, told me, they reminded me, 664 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 3: how was it like like a whole building on top 665 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 3: of me? And I didn't know how I was gonna 666 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: get it off of me. So they put me in 667 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 3: a ballpen. There was nobody down there, and I'm looking 668 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 3: around and I had a suit on so and the tie. 669 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 3: So I shifted my tie from the left to the right, 670 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: and I'm like, yo, how did I get How did 671 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: this happen to me? So I was but to cry, 672 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 3: of course, I'm like and so literally a voice came 673 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 3: over me and says, son, you're gonna be all right. 674 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: You know. 675 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 3: I got down on my knees in that bullpen and 676 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 3: I prayed, and that was my peace, that was my sanctuary, 677 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 3: that's my sanity. That's what brought me through just not 678 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 3: my faith alone. But my family was there for me, 679 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 3: and they're still there for me. My big brother Frank, 680 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 3: my brother Julian, he passed away at Lupis a year 681 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 3: before I came home. He was my greatest support. My 682 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 3: brother leand and my mother Linda, all host of family 683 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 3: and friends. I mean, you know, it's crazy in prison 684 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 3: because some people don't even know what the visiting room 685 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 3: look like. I just had a great support. My wife 686 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 3: rain sleeve of snow. I'm telling you, if it was 687 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: six feet of snow and the roses clear, she was there, 688 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 3: you know, and that says a lot for her, you know. 689 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 3: But again I had a lot of family there for me. 690 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 3: My family was there, they're still there for me. And 691 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 3: again my faith kept me whole. 692 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: You know. 693 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 3: I actually go to school right now, to a Bible 694 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 3: institute to become a minister. It's not easy. I go 695 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 3: through a lot of ups and downs because of the 696 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 3: incarceration I call it today, because of they thrust them 697 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 3: into a cage. I'm that dog that's running away from 698 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 3: the cage, never to go back to that cage again. 699 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 3: I want to go back there, but I want to 700 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 3: go back there for the right reasons, as far as 701 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 3: if I could inspire and encourage somebody to be like, listen, 702 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 3: there is hope. The's guys that see me today. When 703 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 3: I was actually incarcerated, well I don't call it incarcerated again, 704 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 3: when I was thrusting into that cage, they just literally 705 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 3: like start crying, like, yo, yeah, you believed like you 706 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 3: believed you was coming home when you was going home 707 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: and you're here. Sometimes of course it gets rough sometime, 708 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 3: you know, But what do you do with the situation 709 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 3: when it happens to you? Do you sit down weeping crowd? 710 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 3: Do you get up and stand tall? Because that's what 711 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 3: they want you to do. They want you to be like, Okay, 712 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 3: we're gonna take this person, thrust them in a cage, 713 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 3: and we want them to become an animal. I did 714 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 3: the total opposite. I became an example, like to be 715 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 3: a better person than what they wanted me to be. 716 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 3: Even through incarceration, I was counseling people, whether it was CEOs, 717 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 3: whether it was convicts, whether it was inmates. I just 718 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 3: I just had a call on and I'm still doing 719 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 3: that to this day. So I'm just not say grateful 720 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 3: for incarceration, absolutely not, but I'm grateful now for the 721 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 3: opportunity to give back and to share with others that 722 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 3: I've been through what you've been through. Like I talked 723 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 3: to the guys in the halfway house all the time. Listen, 724 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna sit down and tell you that I've 725 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 3: been in prison for twenty one years, but I'm going 726 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 3: to let you know I've been where you are. 727 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 2: You could change, you can transition. 728 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 3: Your life could be totally different than what it really 729 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 3: is today, but you have to make that first step. 730 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 3: I could only give you a little bit of tools 731 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 3: and ingredients, something I could share with you, a word 732 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 3: of advice, but I can't make you walk like they say. 733 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 3: You could bring a horse to the trough, but you 734 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 3: can't make them drink. 735 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: Stefan, if people want to reach out to you, do 736 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: you do public speaking? 737 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm doing. 738 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: And how do if people want to get involved in 739 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,399 Speaker 1: your case in any way, how do they reach out 740 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: to you? 741 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: Do a Gmail? 742 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 3: Stephan Morant s t e f O n m O 743 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 3: r a n t at gmail dot com. 744 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: Stefan Morant s T E f O n m O 745 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: r a n t at gmail dot com. And the 746 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: movie About This crazy case is called one hundred and 747 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: twenty Years. 748 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 3: If you haven't watched it yet, I think you could 749 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 3: go on YouTube and watch it. But it's it's called 750 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty Years, a documentary of Scott Lewis. 751 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,959 Speaker 3: I'm also a part of that as well. 752 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 1: Check it out. So now we get to my favorite 753 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: part of the show, where I first of all, I 754 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: thank you again Stephan Moran for coming to the studio 755 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: and sharing your thoughts and your incredible story and wish 756 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: you all the best for the future. And then I 757 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: get to turn off my microphone and just sit back 758 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: and leave yours on for what we've come to call 759 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: closing arguments, go for it. 760 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 3: Well, I just like to say I appreciate and I 761 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: thank you for everything that you do wrong for conviction. 762 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 3: It's just it's a sad day. It's just a sad situation. 763 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 3: I remember my first Innocence Project conference and they said 764 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 3: you go when your network. It was in Texas. So 765 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 3: I was walking about and I seen this guy and 766 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 3: I just walked up to him and he was a 767 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 3: social worker from out of Ohio. Yeah, how you doing? 768 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 3: He says, I'm all right, how are you? I said, yeah, 769 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 3: he said, we need a network meet different people. So 770 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 3: he said, what happened with you? And I said, well, 771 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 3: I wasn't just incarcerated for twenty one years, I know, 772 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,919 Speaker 3: even Connecticut. And I said to him, I said, yeah, 773 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 3: everybody says that that they're innocent. And he looked at 774 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 3: me and he says, no, they don't. And I had 775 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 3: to think about that, and I said, wow, you're actually right. 776 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 3: You hear that on TV, but in prison, it's like 777 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 3: I could count on probably one of my hands and 778 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 3: somebody actually said that they were innocent. And I've been 779 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 3: around thousands and thousands of guys. If somebody tell you 780 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 3: they're innocent, right, how much effort does it take for 781 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 3: you just to reopen an investigation or to just look 782 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 3: into what he or she is saying instead of allowing 783 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 3: on this to carry on for like it carried on 784 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 3: with me and mister Lewis, for mister Lewis twenty years 785 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 3: and for myself twenty one years, crying, like getting shot down, 786 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 3: denials after denials after denials. You know again. Now I 787 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 3: have seven kids, Christian and Julian, my Twiland, Stefan Jr. Chandler, 788 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 3: Miya and Prince Boy, junior. So we have me and 789 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 3: my wife have a total of seven kids. Her name 790 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 3: is Kimberlee Moran, you know, for biological, but all of 791 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 3: them are biological to me now because that's how I 792 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 3: bring my acceptance. You know, my children today, I don't 793 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 3: even have a relationship like with them. I mean, we're 794 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 3: building one and that's like the say as part of 795 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 3: this situation. But at the end of the day, it's like, 796 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 3: how do you just do that to somebody? And how 797 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 3: do you live with yourself? 798 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 2: Right? We need to change the way the judicial system 799 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 2: is being ran today. You know, it has to be changed. 800 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 3: We just need somebody just to have an ear and 801 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 3: to listen, not just to say, well we're gonna talk 802 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: about doing something, don't do something. If you just put 803 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 3: forth an effort and take the time out of your day, 804 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 3: just be like, okay, just let me look into this case. 805 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 3: Give me an opportunity, give me a chance. The evidence 806 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 3: is gonna speak for itself. It's just as simple as that. 807 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 3: If the person actually committed the crime, you could set 808 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 3: time for saying they did this or they didn't do it, 809 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 3: But just give them opportunity. We investigate the situation. You know, 810 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I thank god for the FBI. You know 811 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 3: who does that. They don't just say, okay, you write 812 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: me a letter or not, I'm gonna get involved. And 813 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 3: they said, hold up, something's wrong is going on, and 814 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 3: then the state's attorney still doesn't do anything about it. 815 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 3: The state's attorney stated that for a period of time, 816 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 3: we knew that the lead detective was a liar, also 817 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 3: the key witness. So why am I sitting here taking 818 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 3: time served? Why are you just not saying, okay, we're 819 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 3: dismissing this case right now. So if it's a lie, 820 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 3: if it's a tainted situation, why on earth is steff 821 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 3: On Morant still a convicted fella? Mind you, I've never 822 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 3: had a traffic ticket, I've never had a conviction. I 823 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 3: sold a little drugs to get by, but I worked 824 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 3: all my life. The question is, and I leave with this, 825 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 3: I need help and I need stuff On Moran's conviction 826 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 3: to be overturned, because it's just not right. If one 827 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 3: is innocent, the other one definitely has to be innocent, 828 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 3: because you're saying I was just there. You didn't say 829 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 3: I'd kill anybody. So how am I still a convicted fella? 830 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you 831 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: get your podcast, it really helps. And I'm a proud 832 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll 833 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping 834 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org 835 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like 836 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wortis. 837 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR 838 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on 839 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. 840 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava 841 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one