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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Mike Johnson approves the National Prayer

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Speaker 1: Breakfast to be held in the Capitol Church and state.

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Speaker 1: Our state is a church. Talking fens is Harry Lippmann

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Speaker 1: stops by to talk to us about Trump's incoming legal woes.

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Speaker 1: Ben we'll talk to the founders of find Out Pack,

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Speaker 1: Gina Ortiz Jones and Lauren Miller, and they'll tell us

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Speaker 1: about how they're fundraising to get rid of three Texas

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court judges. But first we have the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: columnist Dana Milbank. Welcome back, Dana, Dana.

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 3: A great honor as always to be with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry what is happening in Washington, DC with these

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Speaker 1: Republicans controlling the House with their one majority.

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Speaker 3: It's very exciting because you know, it was just a

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Speaker 3: well oiled machine when they had the five vote majority.

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Speaker 4: So from that.

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Speaker 3: From that point of view, was like, I don't really

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Speaker 3: see it as being much different with the one vote majority.

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Speaker 3: But if you do it, you know, if you have

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Speaker 3: things like the impeachment of majorcas well, I suppose that

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Speaker 3: could make a difference there if you've got.

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Speaker 1: A speaker who has never been really in leadership.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, but you know, if you what you need

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Speaker 3: is Ken Buck or a Tom McClintock, and suddenly the

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Speaker 3: whole thing goes down. And then we saw it this week,

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Speaker 3: you know, this tax bill, which is has huge bipartisan support.

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Speaker 3: There were four New York Republicans. They call themselves moderates.

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Speaker 3: I don't think they're actually moderates.

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Speaker 1: Right, but they are desperate to keep their seats, so

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Speaker 1: in that way, they want to pretend.

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Speaker 3: To be moderates, right, And they want to pretend that

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Speaker 3: they're doing something for the you know, state and local

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Speaker 3: taxes for the you know, the wealthy residents.

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Speaker 1: Salt one of Jesse's favorite things.

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Speaker 3: Salt. Yeah, I'm a big fan. You know, it's not

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Speaker 3: good for the blood pressure. But so they basically shut

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Speaker 3: down the House floor for I think forty minutes this week,

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Speaker 3: taking a page from the Freedom Caucus. So yeah, it

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Speaker 3: makes it even easier to disrupt things and bring everything

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Speaker 3: to a halt. But since everything was already disrupted and

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Speaker 3: at a halt, I'm not sure it fundamentally changes and

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Speaker 3: in a way, we're now at the point where, you know,

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Speaker 3: to pass anything then you need to do it without

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Speaker 3: a rule, which means you have to have a two

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Speaker 3: thirds majority. So in a perverse way, this tiny majority,

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Speaker 3: after defeating them for the last year and change, they're

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Speaker 3: now deciding, okay, well we just have two things on

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Speaker 3: a bipartisan basis, so you can get that two thirds vote,

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Speaker 3: so you can avoid the Freedom Caucus and whoever else

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Speaker 3: wants to bollocks things up. So it's actually suddenly, after

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Speaker 3: all this time had something of a beneficial effect. I

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Speaker 3: don't expect that will last terribly long. In fact, Wednesday

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Speaker 3: might have been the high water mark for that.

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Speaker 1: So basically what happened was Kevin McCarthy, in his incredible

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Speaker 1: cravence to Pittoday, decided to put a few magas on

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Speaker 1: the Rules Committee, which then made it completely impossible to

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Speaker 1: bring anything up for vote.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so there are two, maybe three maga types

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Speaker 3: the kind who are you know, really the rebels the

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Speaker 3: Freedom Caucus types on the Rules Committee. So yeah, if

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Speaker 3: they vote against the rule with the Democrats, it never

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Speaker 3: goes to the floor. But I think even more to

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Speaker 3: the point is that you have to pass the rule

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Speaker 3: on the floor before you go on to any debate,

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Speaker 3: and that's always been a party line vote. You know,

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Speaker 3: the majority party sets the rules for the debate, all

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Speaker 3: the members of the majority party vote for it even

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Speaker 3: if they're not going to support the bill at the end,

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Speaker 3: and all the opposition votes against it even if they

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Speaker 3: are going to support the bill. So you know, that's

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Speaker 3: just been standard. And I think going back to two

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Speaker 3: thousand and three, until these guys took over, there had

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Speaker 3: not been a single instance of a rule being defeated.

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Speaker 3: And now there have been five or six instances of

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Speaker 3: the rule being defeated, and a multiple of that they've

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Speaker 3: pulled bills off the floor because the rule was going

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Speaker 3: to be defeated. So it's now just sort of a

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Speaker 3: routine practice to throw sand in the gear.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a moment here to think about how

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Speaker 1: this never happened to Nancy Pelosi.

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Speaker 3: It is true. I mean, in fairness, it never happened

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Speaker 3: John Right or the others either right.

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Speaker 1: I mean it didn't right exactly.

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Speaker 3: Many any competence speaker right. It's trou I mean, there

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Speaker 3: are so many things now you just say, okay, well

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Speaker 3: that was unheard of before, but you know, it's now

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Speaker 3: just routine in this debauched chamber. But Pelosi was uniquely

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Speaker 3: effective because people were afraid of her.

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Speaker 1: It's a good point. This is they have really hit

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Speaker 1: silly season in the United States House of Representatives. And

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Speaker 1: it's not there are not two sides to this. This

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Speaker 1: is Republicans engaging in bad politics, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's I mean, it's it's been. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: we're now in what month of fourteen of this constant dysfunction,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I you know, Pelosi had a

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Speaker 3: Democratic majority of a similar size to what the Republicans

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Speaker 3: have worked with, and they were able to govern. You know,

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Speaker 3: this Senate is a split just as evenly, and sure enough,

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Speaker 3: they're you know, despite all the odds, they're able to

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Speaker 3: come up with things like you know, a bipart isn't

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Speaker 3: compromise on a border bill, which of course the House

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Speaker 3: is now kind of kill. It can be done. It's

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Speaker 3: just you know that it is a unique problem. It's

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Speaker 3: a uniquely Republican problem, and at the moment it's a

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Speaker 3: House Republican problem.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this border bill, because it's an

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Speaker 1: amazing bit of real hypocrisy. Republicans said, we are not

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Speaker 1: going to fund Ukraine. We want a border. We only

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Speaker 1: want the border. We care about the border. The border

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Speaker 1: is the most important thing. The border is a crisis.

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Speaker 1: The border is this, The border is that because inflation's

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Speaker 1: gone way down and we can't on that anymore. So

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Speaker 1: now it's the border. So then Chris Murphy, Kirsten Cinema,

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Speaker 1: and James Langford sit in a room for three months

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Speaker 1: and they put together something that's probably a lot of

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Speaker 1: people and nobody's seen the text of it, but from

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Speaker 1: what Chris Murphy said to me, it seems like it's

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Speaker 1: probably fine. It's going to make everyone unhappy, which means

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Speaker 1: it's probably okay ish. But ultimately then Republicans are like, well,

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Speaker 1: we can't possibly pass this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's an astonishing thing. I mean, you've been

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Speaker 3: hearing about this existential crisis, an invasion at the border,

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Speaker 3: MS thirteen, MS thirteen, murders, Fendyl overdoses. It's just been

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Speaker 3: this constant drumbeat and as you said, the absolute insistence

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Speaker 3: on it, and you had people like Mike Johnson Steve

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Speaker 3: Sclee saying this can only be done with legislation, Congress

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Speaker 3: has to act and then making it a requirement, and

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Speaker 3: then you know, essentially people called their bluff on it,

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Speaker 3: and it might have worked had Trump got in there

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Speaker 3: and said, Okay, blame me for the failure of this.

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Speaker 3: We don't want to give Democrats this issue during the election.

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Speaker 3: So to Trump's credit, he was completely out there in

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Speaker 3: the open saying we'd rather have this as an issue

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Speaker 3: than actually fix the problem. And now you see Republicans,

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Speaker 3: particularly the House Republican it's just sort of all reversing

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Speaker 3: themselves and saying totally fine, Biden has all the authority

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Speaker 3: he needs, there's no need for legislation whatsoever, and then

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Speaker 3: getting sort of further twisted up and saying, well, it

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Speaker 3: would be good to have legislation if a were legislation

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Speaker 3: like what we had. None of it particularly makes any sense.

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Speaker 3: But what is completely obvious is that there is a compromise.

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Speaker 3: There is a consensus to do something about asylum policy

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Speaker 3: and all the other things, the border security, all the

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Speaker 3: other things that Republicans have been howling about for months

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Speaker 3: and for years, and they're now going to torpedo that.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is a little bit of a replay

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Speaker 3: of what we saw back at twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: the Senate worked out a compromise and House Republicans killed it. So,

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there's a lot that happens these days

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Speaker 3: to make one cynical. But if it really is the

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Speaker 3: order that is, you know, causing this massive crisis and

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Speaker 3: this massive invasion that they're going to do, right, if.

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Speaker 1: It's a crisis, you should at least want to fix

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Speaker 1: it right.

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Speaker 3: Right, even if it's not perfect, you know, go ahead

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Speaker 3: and try it. And look, it's all well and good

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Speaker 3: to say that Biden has all the authority he needs.

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Speaker 3: It's just plain nonsense. You know. First of all, he's

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Speaker 3: taken more executive actions than Trump ever did. Yeah, Trump

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Speaker 3: had a lot of policies that worked, and most of

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Speaker 3: them have been struck down in the courts because they

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Speaker 3: were illegal, so they can't be re implemented. Then there

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Speaker 3: are others like patch and release. Okay, end it, well, right,

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Speaker 3: you can end it if you have the money to

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Speaker 3: detain all these people, which Congress hasn't provided. So his

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Speaker 3: hands really are tied to a great extent, and it

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Speaker 3: does require congressional action.

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Speaker 1: Remember, Republicans have been so mad at Obama for executive actions.

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Speaker 1: All right, Like this was how dare you use these

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Speaker 1: executive actions? Now they're saying, well, if Biden wants to

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Speaker 1: solve the border, you can use executive actions.

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Speaker 3: Right, you can just take out his pen. Yes, there

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Speaker 3: are hypocrisies folded into hypocrisies here. That's like the third

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Speaker 3: level hypocrisy on executive action.

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Speaker 1: This is like the underlying anxiety I think we all

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Speaker 1: have in this political world. What is the information that

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Speaker 1: people are getting. If people were able to absorb this information,

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Speaker 1: they'd be like, this is absolute madness. But do you

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Speaker 1: think that voters are following this and how would they?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's probably the usual story where you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're in the maga Fox News silo, no, you're probably

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Speaker 3: not getting this information at all, or to the extent

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Speaker 3: you are. It's that Biden created this problem and he

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Speaker 3: has the tools he needs to fix it. But I

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Speaker 3: do think this is you know, if you look at

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Speaker 3: there at the larger reality based population, which will after all,

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Speaker 3: to t the outcome of the election. I think this

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Speaker 3: does change the debate, at least rhetorically in the sense

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Speaker 3: of giving Democrats some ammunition saying right, there is a

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Speaker 3: crisis at the border, or at least a really big problem.

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Speaker 3: We got together with some sensible Republicans and came up

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Speaker 3: with a solution, and Donald Trump said he will be

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Speaker 3: happy to take the blame for bringing it down. So

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Speaker 3: you know, at the very least it wants the argument

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Speaker 3: against Democrats. But you know, I don't in a way.

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Speaker 3: I don't even like to think about this as a

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Speaker 3: political matter. That Just think about how reckless and irresponsible

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Speaker 3: that is. Unless the Republicans were making it up and

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Speaker 3: they just weren't concerned all along about hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 3: dying from opioid over doses and gang violence and all

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Speaker 3: these murders and rapes and terrorists coming across the border.

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Speaker 3: So either you didn't really mean it in the first place,

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Speaker 3: or worse that you actually do mean it and this

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Speaker 3: stuff is going on, but you'd rather have a campaign

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Speaker 3: issue than do something.

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Speaker 1: The problem for Republicans is either the threat is or

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Speaker 1: the threat is not real, and here's an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: solve the thread. I don't believe polls, but polling whatever

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Speaker 1: for Biden is bad. People we know in New York

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Speaker 1: and Washington are very mad at him for a number

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Speaker 1: of reasons, But you look at the fundamentals of like

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Speaker 1: the political landscape right now, right we have this miraculous

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Speaker 1: you saw I'm sure you saw this piece of axios yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Of all of the G seven countries, America has sort

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Speaker 1: of done the impossible and has this soft inflationary landing, right,

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Speaker 1: which is sort of not in Paul Krugman's greatest dreams.

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Speaker 1: Has this happened?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 1: And we do ten thousand interviews a week, So how

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Speaker 1: much time have I sat with Justin Wolfers And he says,

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Speaker 1: am I optimistic? I'm optimistic, but do I know you

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Speaker 1: know so much hemming and hawing, And it turns out

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Speaker 1: they were right. So really, the Inflation Reduction Act, instead

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Speaker 1: of being this terrible bite nomics punchline, it actually reduced inflation.

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Speaker 1: So if this were a Republican president, people would say

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Speaker 1: this guy is unstoppable because the economy is so good.

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Speaker 1: But for some reason for this, it's like, no, chicken

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Speaker 1: prices haven't gone down enough and gas is only under

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Speaker 1: three dollars. But it just seems to me like there's

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Speaker 1: way more pessimism in the media landscape and also just

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Speaker 1: in around may more important life.

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Speaker 3: I think that part of it's a media story. And

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Speaker 3: I think part of it is that it's no longer

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Speaker 3: the economy stupid, it's the tribal politics stupid. You know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny. Biden was citing an op ed

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Speaker 3: from The Times about the price of Snickers bar, saying

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Speaker 3: that you know, people recognize that as inflation because they

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Speaker 3: buy more Snickers bar. And then the RNC, you know,

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Speaker 3: tweets that out as you know, he's talking about Snickers bar,

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Speaker 3: it's evidence of dementia. So right, in a sense, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: that's what we're talking about here. Is they've you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, they've convinced their voters that you know, this poor, druling,

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Speaker 3: dodteran guy is running the country. So you know, they're

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Speaker 3: not exactly focused on that. So I think the usual

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Speaker 3: economic laws don't necessarily apply. And part of it is

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Speaker 3: we in the media, Number one, we have allowed it

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Speaker 3: to happen. We haven't adapted to the new landscape. And

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Speaker 3: the other part is we're just marginalized, those of us,

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Speaker 3: you know, and what you would call the painstream media,

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Speaker 3: we just don't get through to, you know, a huge

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Speaker 3: swath of the population.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you about this thing that I think

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about quite enough, but is something that

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Speaker 1: Trump did the last time he did it in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: and it backfired on him then too. So his whole

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Speaker 1: thing is that Biden is demented and that there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with Biden and that he's not really doing it.

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Speaker 1: That really Kamala is the president and this is a

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Speaker 1: you know, and Marxist Kamala and Marxist and whoever else

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Speaker 1: you can think of his wrong also fascist. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen Donald Trump speak lately, he

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Speaker 1: has definitely lost a step, right, Like we could debate

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Speaker 1: whether or not Biden whatever, he tripped on a sandbag, whatever,

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Speaker 1: But Trump was convinced that Nancy Pelosi was NICKI Haley

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Speaker 1: he was. You know, he thinks he beat Obama. I

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Speaker 1: mean he cannot. He seems like he's really lost his step.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I did. This is my column last week from

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Speaker 3: New Hampshire. Yeah, the things you've cited about Haley and

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Speaker 3: Pelosi confusing Obama and Biden. But I just like, I

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Speaker 3: sat through one hundred minute speech which I should get

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Speaker 3: combat paid for or something.

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Speaker 1: I've sat through one of those before.

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Speaker 3: And then just like did a transcript of it, just

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Speaker 3: went through over and he's just like he tells the

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Speaker 3: same stories over and over again, with the exact same

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Speaker 3: lines over and over again, you know. And sometimes he's

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Speaker 3: you know, talking about, you know, we're going to get

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Speaker 3: into World War two when he means world War three,

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Speaker 3: you know, or he just starts reading random words off teleprompter.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you should know that one any.

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Speaker 3: Of which if Biden had done, it would be national news.

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Speaker 3: The guy is, you know, affirmed that the guy has

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Speaker 3: lost his mind, you know. And I think part of

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Speaker 3: it is the you know, sort of the media's designated

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Speaker 3: flaw about Biden is he's a senile, Like they've sort

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Speaker 3: of embraced that, you know. The designated flaw of Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump is he's an authoritarian an a racist, which I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's not like that's wrong, that designated flaw. So I

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Speaker 3: think we tend to give him a pass because that's

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Speaker 3: not his designated flaw. If Biden suddenly said something authoritarian,

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Speaker 3: well we probably wouldn't take that much notice because that's

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Speaker 3: not his thing. So, you know, I think it's just

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Speaker 3: a natural in our shorthand, and we don't necessarily say Hey,

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Speaker 3: wait a second. This guy, whether it's you know, age

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Speaker 3: or stress or running around to a lot of different

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Speaker 3: courtrooms all the time, either also in addition to Biden,

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Speaker 3: or perhaps even worse than Biden, seems to be changing

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Speaker 3: because we forget that. Yeah, yeah, Biden's stiffer and all

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Speaker 3: that now, but the guy never, you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: completed a full coherent sentence. And that's when I was

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Speaker 3: covering him in the Senate back in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have this theory about Biden, which I

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Speaker 1: feel like it is going to get everyone mad at me,

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Speaker 1: which is and actually I said this to a straight

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Speaker 1: reporter and he was like, you're wrong, But I actually

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Speaker 1: think I'm right, which is this Biden is actually more

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Speaker 1: coherent Biden Molly.

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Speaker 3: I would just say that's a low bar, right.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, he's sort of he can stick to things.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was never a gifted orator, like that's

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Speaker 1: not who he is.

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Speaker 3: Not at all. Well, first of all, just because he

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Speaker 3: has a stutter, so he has trouble giving speeches, which

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Speaker 3: is kind of Chris when Chi sideries the president of

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Speaker 3: the United.

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Speaker 1: States, right, that's the job.

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Speaker 3: And he was always just sort of rambling, and just

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Speaker 3: I remember listening to him in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

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Speaker 3: You know, he gave like a thirty minute speech, you

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Speaker 3: know before one of these nominees. They said, all right,

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Speaker 3: and now I'd like to get to my speech. It's

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Speaker 3: just it was, Yeah, I think what I think part

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Speaker 3: of would you say is true that I mean, people

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Speaker 3: would say, yeah, he's more scripted now and his staff's

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Speaker 3: doing the work. But it's also a matter of more discipline.

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Speaker 3: That Trump makes fun of him for giving two or

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Speaker 3: three minute speeches. I would take that over the hour

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Speaker 3: and forty minute speech in which we have to keep

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Speaker 3: hearing the same things over.

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Speaker 1: I remember at Seapac sitting through those speeches and being like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, I feel the pain you felt ill and

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Speaker 3: we're in this and the campaign is just beginning.

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Speaker 4: It is bad.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Dana Bay. Harry Litman is a former US

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Speaker 1: attorney and host of the podcast Talking Fads.

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Speaker 4: I just want to say, welcome to another law politics

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Speaker 4: mashup with Molly john Fast and I'm Harry Litman, where

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Speaker 4: we kind of have very few rules, but I try

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Speaker 4: to shoot a political question at Mollie that's been on

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Speaker 4: my mind, and she reciprocates with a legal question that's

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Speaker 4: been on hers and it's a yes.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you first because there are

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Speaker 1: all these core cases, the civil fraud case we're waiting

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Speaker 1: for the number right that Trump is going to owe.

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Speaker 1: Talk us through exactly what that is and why it

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Speaker 1: hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, I mean what he said. It's funny because

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Speaker 4: we're waiting on two and one. We're really starting to

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Speaker 4: get nervous. That's the immunity payd of d C circuit

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Speaker 4: with the one you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Talk about the immunity for a second on the DC

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Speaker 1: circuit because I know Andrew Weisman has been expressing some

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Speaker 1: irritation about that too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, or consternation. So look back when it was argued,

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Speaker 4: everybody tuned in because the question first you wanted to know,

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Speaker 4: as always, which way are they going to go? And

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Speaker 4: I thought, and I think every observer thought, they're going

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Speaker 4: to reject his claim of immunity. I hold to that view,

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Speaker 4: but it's always within the substance game and the delay game,

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Speaker 4: and the thing about there's two potential sources for delay,

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Speaker 4: and as the time time goes on, they get more

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Speaker 4: likely because the DC Circuit was out of the gate

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Speaker 4: with a really fast briefing schedule. And when they've done

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Speaker 4: that in the past, they've issued opinions within a week

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Speaker 4: or two. They've clearly been writing before even the oral argument,

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Speaker 4: and that hasn't happened. Why not two possibilities? And first

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Speaker 4: is the presiding judge, Florence Henderson, may not Florence Heenderson.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, what are the odds?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, may not be buying the same theory, even though

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Speaker 4: I think she's not going to give him immunity. And

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Speaker 4: the two of them, the other two childs in pan

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Speaker 4: state some like different nuance theory of why no immunity.

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Speaker 4: Here's why it matters, not just for the days that

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Speaker 4: are elapsing. But if Henderson says something that's different, it

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Speaker 4: could be that the Supreme Court would be interested in

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Speaker 4: taking that. You know, the six Conservatives would like their view.

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Speaker 1: This is the president is and be king theory right,

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Speaker 1: whenever the president does anything, it's fine.

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Speaker 4: The one they articulated in oral argument was he can

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Speaker 4: command the Navy seals to gun down an opponent, and

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Speaker 4: unless there's an impeachment and conviction, he can't be prosecuted.

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Speaker 4: That's how for cocked it is. But the worry is

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Speaker 4: that even though if they reject it, they'll do it

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Speaker 4: in a way that gives him yet more time. One

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Speaker 4: of two ways Supreme Court decides to take the case

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Speaker 4: that could really drag on, or they state some theory

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Speaker 4: that then goes back down to chuck In who applies it,

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Speaker 4: you know, easy, easiest, pissed that's happened before. But then

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Speaker 4: would there be another round of appeal from the Remand

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Speaker 4: so what's what's irritating Andrew and consternating me or both

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Speaker 4: is the possibility that this delay augurs yet more delay

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Speaker 4: after they issue the opinion. We've lost a month. We

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Speaker 4: were at April. We can handle a month, but what

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Speaker 4: if it turns into two or three? It gets really

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Speaker 4: dicey when you're in the heat of the campaign, you know,

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Speaker 4: a national campaign.

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Speaker 1: The central tension here really is that legally Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has sort of two defenses he uses. One is to

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Speaker 1: run out the clock and just to keep trying to

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Speaker 1: kick things up to hire and higher courts because he

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Speaker 1: knows it'll get him time. Right, That's really his biggest

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Speaker 1: way that he sort of solves his legal problems, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, what's the other that is the way

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Speaker 4: when you look over the whole landscape, he can't you know,

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Speaker 4: if he's not elected president. Let's just put it that way,

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Speaker 4: he can't escape serious damage to liberty or pocketbook or both.

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Speaker 4: His really only kind of you know, play here is

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Speaker 4: to somehow win the presidency and then take it from there.

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Speaker 4: Shut down the FEDS, investigate Fonnie Willis, etc. So all

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Speaker 4: of these, all of these, you know, he has some

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Speaker 4: claims that don't stink, but not very many, but doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: When you look at the whole panorama, you know he's

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Speaker 4: in deep, deep peril unless he can win. Obviously, that

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Speaker 4: keeps you up night thinking I'm sure you too, can

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Speaker 4: he win? And so what I you know, I try

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Speaker 4: to conceptualize in my mind, who is the voter who

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Speaker 4: went for Biden in twenty twenty and will say, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I think I'm for Trump this time around because he

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Speaker 4: has to not just consolidate and keep the base. He's

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Speaker 4: losing a little bit in the middle, but he has

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Speaker 4: to gain. And I thought there is no such person,

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Speaker 4: But it seems like there are some cohorts Mollie that

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Speaker 4: are like actually expanding a bit for him. It I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking of college educated males that was you know, it

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Speaker 4: was always that line that wasn't there as hispanics. Maybe

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Speaker 4: what the hell is causing his base to actually grow

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Speaker 4: a bit?

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Speaker 1: I don't think his base has grown. I think the

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Speaker 1: problem and the reason why we have so much trouble

433
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Speaker 1: with polling now is that there's a shifting electorate. So

434
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, the people who made Trump president were

435
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: impossible to anticipate because a lot of them had never voted.

436
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: Not a lot of them, but a certain percent. You know,

437
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: it was a shifting electorate, a group that posters didn't

438
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: know to look for. And since then they have been

439
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: shifting the elector to try and predict these sort of

440
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: ghost voters that might come back. Because ultimately, right, we're

441
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: only working on polls, right, I mean, what else are

442
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: we working on? What other information do we have?

443
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 5: Right?

444
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, Sarah Longwell does these really good focus groups,

445
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: But that's twenty people, you know, or so we're really

446
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: working in polls. And like, I think there are some

447
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: things that are like voter registration, for sure, you can

448
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: work on that, right. You can see where people are

449
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: registering but even that, it's not a science. One of

450
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: the things that is like you could look at is

451
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: primary voter turnout. Right, So like Iowa is a very religious,

452
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: tend to be very white and religious. They had very

453
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: small turnout for Trump that was like he did really well,

454
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: but it was you know, half of what it had

455
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: been four years ago. So I think that's a question.

456
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 4: So your answer is that it isn't really like it's

457
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 4: another foible with the polls. Maybe I would.

458
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: Say until the summer, we're not going to know who

459
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: the likely voters are, so we really don't know. Does

460
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: it seem to me I think there are people who

461
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: will vote Republican no matter what.

462
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: I think did four years ago.

463
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't think that those are people who voted

464
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: for Biden who are leaving Biden. But I also think

465
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: there are like these X factors, right, like a third

466
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: party candidate. Also, like how information is getting to the

467
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 1: electorate is a real problem too. I would say, like

468
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: are people not getting news we've all heard the story

469
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: of like the person who is like Biden is not

470
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: pro choice because there are all these abortion bands that

471
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: are happening while he's president. So I mean there are

472
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: unknown unknowns there fair enough?

473
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 4: Okay, your turk, because I want to try to get

474
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 4: to three. I know your producer is tough.

475
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 3: Here.

476
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: My question for you is, okay, So the presidential immunitay

477
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: again should happen sooner rather than later.

478
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 4: It should have happened a couple weeks ago, and that's

479
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 4: that's why everyone's biting their nails.

480
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: Then there's this fraud number. What's the timetable on that?

481
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: Very very soon because the guy said, I'm aiming to

482
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: do it by the thirty first. Now you know they

483
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 4: don't subtract half a grade. Every day is late, but

484
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 4: there's very big public focus. So I think the most

485
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 4: likely day is today. The second we're on February first. Second,

486
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: most likely tomorrow. And if you ask for the number,

487
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: you know she started the ag James at two fifty

488
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 4: then went to three seventy. I think he'll probably go

489
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 4: under what she's asking for because he's thinking about view

490
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 4: on appeal. There's already a lot of chunky issues there,

491
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: but still this is drawing real blood, even if they

492
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 4: don't see it for a while. Egene Carroll and Leticia James.

493
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: He's got to pony it up in order to appeal,

494
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 4: and if he has even the kind of liquidity he

495
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 4: says he's got, it still seems to be almost wipe. Yeah,

496
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 4: it feels to me like it really has sort of

497
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 4: brought him a bit to his knees. And that's a

498
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 4: that's a big deal because his voters seem to count

499
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 4: on his not just doing whatever he wants but get

500
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 4: away with it.

501
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Can his donors donate to the settlement?

502
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 3: Yeah?

503
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 4: There, I mean there's some complicated election rules, but that's

504
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 4: been that's been the weeks the Achilles seal. Right, he

505
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: just you know, we know he paid all these legal

506
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 4: fees et cetera.

507
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: I mean we've seen the filings for the legal fees

508
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: that they're humong those, right, I mean.

509
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 4: Fifty million over the last year, and he uses it

510
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 4: as a sort of uh what you know, toolover his

511
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 4: co defendants to keep them close to pay their fees

512
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: or not. Okay, I was really interested. That was a

513
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 4: great article on Vanny Fair that you wrote, but it

514
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 4: put me in mind, have you seen this finding really

515
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 4: striking that young voters there's a really seems to be

516
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: a pronounced division between men and women, not just on

517
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: abortion or me too or whatever, but across the board.

518
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: You have significantly more progressive women in this young cohort

519
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: twenty two to thirty or whatever. Do you buy that?

520
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: And man, what is it augur for going forward?

521
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: That's from this data journalist called John Burns, Murdoch and

522
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: the Ft, who we actually had on the podcast. I mean,

523
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a number of things, but I think

524
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: Roe is the big one. I mean, well, you have

525
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: one group of people where bodily autonomy, they used to

526
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: have the right to have an abortion, federal right to

527
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: have an abortion. They don't have anymore.

528
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 4: But no, that mays them more progressive across the board apparently.

529
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're furious you have the right to abortion gone.

530
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: You have Republicans sessed with your body, right, like these

531
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: stories about they're tracking your cycles. You have that woman

532
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: in Ohio who had to face a grand jury for

533
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: the disposal of a corpse because she had a miscarriage

534
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: in the toilet, right. You have the woman in Texas.

535
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 1: You have these horror stories. And then I would add,

536
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: you have Republicans fighting with Taylor Swift, right, so you

537
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: have this sense in which they're saying the women we

538
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: want are Kimberly Gilfoyle. That's a good woman, right, But

539
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, the self made billionaire musician, that's not okay.

540
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: And so I think people bristle when you tell them

541
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: what to do. And remember so much of America is

542
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: about this, like weird and I'm not even sure it's good,

543
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: but this kind of freedom, you know, to have guns

544
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: and be crazy, I think women, I think there's a

545
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: reaction towards that. And it's twenty twenty four. I mean,

546
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Everything else he can kick the can on

547
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: except the Newer case. Is that right?

548
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: Not quite yet, but it's But that's the bad trend.

549
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 5: You know.

550
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 4: Eileen Cannon is really slow walking at the big mess

551
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: in Fulton County with Fannie Willis and Wade et cetera.

552
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 4: I think works to make it much harder to do

553
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: that one on time. The big Hope always has been

554
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: the most important and the most likely to move with

555
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: dispatch the Chuck in January sixth case. And that's precisely

556
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 4: why this delay in the immunity opinion is so worrisome,

557
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 4: because that's really the focus. I think the New York

558
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: case will happen conduct before he was president. They it's

559
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 4: somehow already I think been absorbed by the electorate. I

560
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: see that as the least likely to be a serious

561
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 4: game change it. It's Stormy Daniel's case, you know, right, No, no,

562
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 4: I know.

563
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: It's a state that goes to a federal It's a

564
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: weird statue that there's not a huge president for. But

565
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: I wonder how much you know, Trump has this whole thing,

566
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: and this is where he uses these him in all

567
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: trials or civil trials as a kind of campaign event.

568
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: So he says to his people, you know, he gets

569
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: up there, he speechifies, this is America. He does all

570
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: of his political stuff.

571
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: I'm your martyr. Yeah right, I'm your martyr.

572
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: But when he does it, it tends to backfire. These

573
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: two things were not made to work together. So, like,

574
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, he brags about how rich he is, and

575
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: then he gets his huge judgment. Right like if he

576
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: had said, I have no cash, you know, that's what

577
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: you're supposed to say when you're a defendant. He's in

578
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: this situation where he just can't you know, he's sort

579
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: of stuck in this hamster wheel. Even if New York

580
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: is not the best case. Having the adult film star

581
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: back in court testifying that just doesn't seem like it

582
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: helps grow the electorate.

583
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, but he said ninety one counts against him,

584
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 4: and it really doesn't seem to move the needle the polling,

585
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 4: and you point out there's a lot to be still

586
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 4: learned about the weaknesses and polling suggest if he's actually convicted,

587
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: that would move the needle. Well, but this one seems like,

588
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's disgusting, and it was definitely done

589
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 4: to corrupt an election, and you would think it has

590
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: a real but it was already before the election, and

591
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: it seems like the least likely for that reason. It's

592
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: all like in a parade of horribles. We've been fooled

593
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 4: so many times. But it seems like I am confident

594
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 4: in saying that it doesn't have the same you know, sledgehammer.

595
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 4: It doesn't get to what's really wicked about him as

596
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 4: president or what he did as president, et cetera, just

597
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: him as a consummate, you know, jerk.

598
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: The question of like, does it necessarily matter what the

599
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: case is in this low information ecosystem, him just being

600
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: dragged in and out of court. I mean, there have

601
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 1: got to be people who see that and are like

602
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that I want that on my next president.

603
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 4: I think that's part of Nikki Hailey. This would be

604
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 4: more your value Wick again, but that's sort of we

605
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 4: don't need the chaos and uncertainty. You don't have to

606
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: hate Trump, but man, don't you want to put him

607
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 4: behind you? And so and a jury standing up and

608
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: saying conviction and you know his having some accountability? Is

609
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 4: that it or is it the nature of the conduct?

610
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: And you're right, it's a low informed electorate. And that

611
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 4: actually goes to my last question for you, which is

612
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 4: for lawyers watching him, you know, in the Eugene Carol

613
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 4: case has been mind boggling. You know, I feel like

614
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 4: I'm reading a nineteenth century novel and he didn't stand

615
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: for the jury, oh mine, but it does seem to

616
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: be I really like no other litigan I've ever seen

617
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: what an asshole that said. It's whether he just can't

618
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 4: help himself or it's a calculation. I've heard political analysts

619
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 4: like you saying, you know, it actually helps him, that's

620
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 4: his political strategy. So and my question is is it

621
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: really the being a sort of fairal child or does

622
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,959
Speaker 4: everything but shoot spitballs at the judge? Is that actually

623
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 4: a plus for his political supporters, and you know, is

624
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 4: it something they ignore or is it truly like add

625
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 4: to his political luster that you know, he can throw

626
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: whoopee cushions all over the courtroom and be astonishingly, you know,

627
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 4: violating of all the rules of decor.

628
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: So when I talked to Robbie Kaplan on my podcast,

629
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: I asked her, I said, like, well, because I had

630
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: heard the deposition was really harry, but she actually said

631
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: the worst part of the whole trial was watching Alina

632
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Hobba and Donald Trump behave so badly in front of

633
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: this judge Kaplan, who's like a very formal judge, And

634
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: she said, you know, when you get in front of

635
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: judges like this, you can't behave like that. It's just

636
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: not how any of this is done. And you know,

637
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: Alena Hobbit was like fighting with him because this is

638
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: reality television lawyering here. So his people believe that like

639
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: this was a deep state conspiracy against him, but a

640
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: lot of them don't understand how things work right, like

641
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: how courts work, and so I don't know is the answer.

642
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it seems very embarrassing, but

643
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: you know, this is the fuck your feelings crowd.

644
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, okay, I'm thinking what, well, what it'll look

645
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 4: like next time we talk. Will Haley still be there?

646
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 4: Will there actually be a case about to go? So

647
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 4: it'll be fine as always.

648
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: I hope there'll be a case about to go. Yes,

649
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: thank you.

650
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 4: Great to see you, all right, thank you, hang in there,

651
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 4: all right.

652
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: You two, Gina Orkeis Jones and Laura Miller are the

653
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: founders of find Out Pas. Welcome to Fast Politics. Now

654
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to have you both introduced yourselves, but I'm

655
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: going to call you the ladies of the find Out Pack.

656
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: Okay, well first.

657
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: Why don't you introduce yourself Gina.

658
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, so Gena Artiez Jones, I am the founder of

659
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: find Out Pack and for those that are wondering, yes,

660
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 5: it is based on a scientific concept of f around

661
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 5: and find out. Previously, a longtime public servant ran for Congress.

662
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 5: I was not successful, but look, everything happens for a reason,

663
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 5: and I was honored to serve as the twenty seventh

664
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 5: Under Secretary of the Air Force. And am now I

665
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 5: just mentioned the founder of this.

666
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: Pack, right, and Lauren Miller tell us how you got here?

667
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 4: I'm Lauren Miller.

668
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: I am read that in Texas, and in October of

669
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, I had to travel to Colorado for

670
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: an abortion because I had an unviable twin and I

671
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: had to save the life of myself and the healthy

672
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 2: twin that I was carrying.

673
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus Christ. You know, as a mother of twins,

674
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: who've known a lot of people who've had to have

675
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: a selective reductions. Nobody does that because they're lazy. You

676
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: do that because you want to save the other, your

677
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: other fetus exactly. Yeah, I'm so sorry that you had

678
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: to do that.

679
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 2: Thank you. We were just trying to do what was

680
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: best for our healthy twin and it was shocking that

681
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: we couldn't do that in Texas.

682
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: So will you tell us a little bit about that story?

683
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: Can you talk about it a little bit more like

684
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: how many weeks were you, what was the circumstances, and

685
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: also what did your doctor tell you?

686
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: So I'll start with the last part of that in

687
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: terms of what did my doctor tell me? So at

688
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: the time, because it was so soon after Rogue fell,

689
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: there was that there still is this huge culture of

690
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: fear around reproductive health in Texas, and I would be

691
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: talking to doctors, nurses, genetic counselors. They get halfway through

692
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: a sentence and then just breeze, just scared to say

693
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: the word abortion out loud. I mean, it was like

694
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: you had impacts then, or you know, the Texas Supreme

695
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: Court just sitting there in the room with you, like

696
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: they could have just been taking notes in the corner.

697
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: And that's what it felt like. And all that any

698
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: of these medical professionals could say was that every day

699
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: that I continued this twin pregnancy, my unviable twin, put

700
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: his twin and myself at greater risk. And so it

701
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: wasn't it really just wasn't even a decision. I was

702
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: right out about fifteen weeks when I went to Colorado

703
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 2: and got the abortion.

704
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: Jesus, Jesus. Did anyone ever say, is doctors, we know

705
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 1: this is wrong. But I mean, like, was there ever

706
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: sort of a moment where they were able to sort

707
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: of explain to you there's no clarity in the law.

708
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: So talk about that a little bit.

709
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: There's so little clarity in the law, and that's that's intentional,

710
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: Like that is completely intentional. I stood, you know, about

711
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: a year ago now in front of the Texas capital

712
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: and called on legislators to add clarity and noted, they

713
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: are killing us and they haven't done anything. They kind

714
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: of did a little pass, a little something that really

715
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: didn't do anything, and so this is intentional to have

716
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: this lack of clarity, and you in the situation where

717
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: every's just apologizing to us. They were just I'm so sorry,

718
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: I can't say more and just saying I'm so sorry,

719
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: I can't do anything. I was in the er two

720
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 2: different times, and I remember the second time it was

721
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: after this diagnosis or tries me eighteen. Our son had

722
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 2: just this list of issues, all of which were fatal,

723
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: like half of his brain was fluid. And I'm with

724
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: the er doctor just standing there holding the chart and

725
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: just kind of shaking her head and saying, I'm so

726
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: sorry because she couldn't do anything. And I was in

727
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: there throwing up so much that I thought the placenta

728
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: was going to detach, and she couldn't do anything.

729
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: Right, And you were one of the blucky ones, right

730
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: because you were able to go and have this treatment

731
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: and save your surviving child.

732
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: I'm the best case scenario. I had every resource at

733
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 2: my disposal, I had the money to travel, I had

734
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: the time to travel, my husband can take off work,

735
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: My work was flexible. I mean, we truly had everything

736
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: at our disposal. I was texting with a doctor in

737
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: Colorado because he was a friend of a friend, and

738
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: that's not the reality for most people, and especially in Texas,

739
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 2: where we've got one hundred and forty seven callies without

740
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 2: an OB. I mean, think of the population of Phoenix

741
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 2: not having an OB. That's what we're dealing with in

742
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: rural Texas.

743
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: I mean, and someone who had three children too pregnancy

744
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: is I know how heartbreaking it is because I, you know,

745
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: I had a number of abnormalities and stuff that when

746
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: you have to have an abortion of children that you

747
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: desperately fucking want, it's so heartbreaking. And then you're not

748
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: even in your own home. I mean, it's just so

749
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: incredibly dehumanizing and horrendous. Gina, will you explain your thinking

750
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: behind this?

751
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: Pack.

752
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 5: So I grew up on the far west side of

753
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: San Antonio, and I went to Jean Jay High School.

754
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 5: And if you're from San Antonio that means something. And

755
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 5: so I say that because my visceral reaction to read

756
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 5: the seven page opinion in December, Now, this was specific

757
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 5: to the Kate Cox case. But really, after I read that,

758
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 5: what those justices essentially said is that this pregnant mother

759
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: of two was not close enough to losing her life

760
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 5: or close enough to losing her fertility, and therefore she

761
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 5: did not qualify for the medical exception. And so obviously

762
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: that begs a lot of questions, right, Well, one, how

763
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 5: close is close enough? Right?

764
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: How are we defining that? In two?

765
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 5: You know, who are these artisan justices? And they are partisan?

766
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 5: We elect our judges and justices here in Texas. Who

767
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 5: are these partisan extremist justices to say they know better

768
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 5: than this woman's doctor, or frankly, any woman's doctor. It

769
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 5: was really just infuriating for me to read that opinion,

770
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 5: as nonsensical.

771
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 2: As it was. And so the visceral.

772
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 5: Reaction was, you know, f around, I'm going to find out.

773
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 5: And so shortly after I started reaching out to some

774
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 5: folks well and thinking about how how would we approve this? Right,

775
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 5: We're not going to have a statewide initiative like you

776
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 5: see in other states, but we could have actually something

777
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 5: on par right, because these folks are elected, that means

778
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 5: they can be unelected, right, And so we've got three

779
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 5: folks that are on the ballot in November, and it's Jimmy,

780
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 5: John and Jane and that's really their names, Jimmy Blacklog,

781
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 5: John Devine, and Jane Bland. And we've got the opportunity

782
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 5: to unseat those folks.

783
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: So explain. They are Supreme Court judges.

784
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 5: They're justices. The justices here again are elected through partisan elections.

785
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 5: They serve six year terms. There is no term limit.

786
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 5: I think what's also important to understand is the Texas

787
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 5: of pre Court has traditionally been a stepping stone for

788
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 5: higher office for folks here right, look at Greg Abbott,

789
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 5: he served on the court. You also look at somebody

790
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 5: like John Cornyn, and so this has been a stepping stone.

791
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 5: But again, we can hold these folks accountable. This is

792
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 5: you know, it's a little bit of a different ballot initiative,

793
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 5: but this is absolutely an accountability measure because you know,

794
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 5: this is not just about you know, what happened to

795
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 5: to Kate Cox, but obviously, as Lauren mentioned, is happening

796
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: to many many women. And you know, I'd be remiss

797
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 5: if I didn't say on the very first day of

798
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 5: Black History Month that we know that the effects of

799
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 5: these all laws disproportionately a flag effects. Excuse me, your

800
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 5: black and brown Texans. Lauren mentioned earlier, she had every resource.

801
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 5: You know, there are so many Texans that don't have

802
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 5: the resources because we're that hasn't expanded Medicaid, right, just

803
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 5: these basic things that we could have in our state,

804
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 5: let alone access to reproductive care is affordable healthcare, and

805
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 5: we don't.

806
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: We don't have those things.

807
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 5: So this pack is going to work to unseat these

808
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 5: these three folks in.

809
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: November, and so there are other people running for those

810
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: seats too.

811
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: The primary for the Democrats, that'll I mean, the primary

812
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 5: in general is the first streak of March here in Texas.

813
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 5: But Jimmy, John and Jane are the incumbents, and so

814
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 5: those folks, I mean, I think John has a him

815
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 5: Mary feel very likely be signed there. I should just

816
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 5: mention the other thing that I thought about when I

817
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 5: thought about how do we get, you know, obviously, to

818
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 5: a better place, is looking into the backgrounds of these folks.

819
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 5: So let me just give you just a little bit

820
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 5: of a snippet right of who these folks are. So

821
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 5: I mentioned the first one, Jimmy Blacklock. All you've got

822
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 5: to know about this guy is essentially what Governor Abbott

823
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 5: said about him at a twenty eighteen Texas rally for Life.

824
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 5: And I'm going to say this, it's I'm reading a

825
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 5: verbatim Governor rabbitts, and I don't have to guess or

826
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 5: wonder how Justice Blacklock is going to decide cases because

827
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 5: of his proven record of fighting for pro life causes.

828
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 5: All right, that's John, Now, John divine. This guy is

829
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 5: real special. He has campaigned actually on his wife's his

830
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 5: own wife's high risk pregnancy. She lived, the child, you know,

831
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 5: lived for an hour. He also campaigned on being arrested

832
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 5: several times for protesting in front of abortion clinics.

833
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: So she had a baby that she knew was going

834
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: to die.

835
00:43:58,880 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: It was a high risk.

836
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, somehow having this baby that died is somehow more

837
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: pro life than avoiding all of this.

838
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 5: I cannot speak to his intentions. What I can only

839
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 5: speak to, and frankfully probly Laura can speak to this

840
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: even better is if you are seeking justice and somebody

841
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 5: has campaigned on this, has been very full about this, Like,

842
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 5: what does that instill in you in any level of

843
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 5: confidence about impartiality or like looking at the facts of

844
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 5: the case, versus them just bringing in their personal biases

845
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 5: on risk saying Lauren, please, Yeah, I.

846
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: Was just gonna say. It's always really mind boggling to

847
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: me because and you'll hear people who say that that's

848
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: cathartic and then at least they had a chance a light.

849
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: That is just not light. I mean, in looking at

850
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: my sign, it would have been torture.

851
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: And it might have killed your other twin.

852
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't have either of my voice. And that's

853
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: just the reality of it. And I don't think that

854
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 2: it's fair to force people to risk their health and

855
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: in my case, again like the health of a healthy

856
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: twin for one that is not viable. That is an

857
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: unrealistic demand.

858
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: It's insane that the thinking here is that you should

859
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: have a baby that's going to die because somehow that

860
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 1: is more pro I mean, it's just one of the

861
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: craziest things I've ever heard. It just is so anti

862
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: science and anti everything.

863
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, why have science, why have ultrasounds? If none of

864
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: it matters? And that's the thing. And you can just

865
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 2: tell who has never seen somebody live in tremendous amount

866
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 2: of pain that they would say, oh, yeah, let's put

867
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 2: an infant through that like that is not for a life?

868
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

869
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 5: Can I just bring up the rear on this last justice? Yeah,

870
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 5: Aane Bland. So she authored the opinion in a Little

871
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 5: of Fun for Reproductive Equity versus Dickinson, a separate case,

872
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: but in that the Texas Supreme Court ruled that anti

873
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 5: abortion groups could not be held liable for defamation for

874
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 5: equating abortion to murder. Like she wrote that opinion, so

875
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 5: again like when you look at these three folks, can

876
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 5: you can you imagine again?

877
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: Just I cannot imagine.

878
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 5: But I just going into the courtroom trying to seek

879
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 5: justice when you've already been through a very traumatic experience

880
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 5: and knowing that you really don't have a fair shot

881
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 5: here with these folks. And that's why we're going to

882
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 5: work to unseat them.

883
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: Gods have a lot of anxiety about Texas as a state.

884
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: Why is your quest and winning this?

885
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 5: We have anxiety to I've got okay, We've got hope then,

886
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 5: and that's honestly what this is about. We are not

887
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 5: hopeless and not helpless, And honestly, that's why I am

888
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 5: very optimistic about this. When you had initiatives put on

889
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 5: the ballot in Kansas, when you had initiatives put on

890
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 5: the ballot in Kentucky, again, compositions very similar to our

891
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 5: own state. Folks overwhelmingly voted to protect reproductive freedoms, right,

892
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 5: and so this is again a little bit different, but

893
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 5: this is a statewide These are statewide races, and we

894
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 5: are closer in the state to flipping the state statewide.

895
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: Than we are.

896
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 5: You know, they've just gerrymanagered so many of these districts,

897
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 5: so it's really going to be hard to flip the

898
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 5: House or the Senate. But again, or elect folks that

899
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 5: are going to product reproductive freedom. And that's why very

900
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 5: optimistic about the ability to flip these seats and elect

901
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 5: folks that are going to protect reproductive freedoms.

902
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: These state Supreme Court justices, they will hear a lot

903
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: of these cases, right, they could create exceptions if there

904
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: were Democrats in them. Right.

905
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 2: They have acted.

906
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 5: Several legislators, even the author of Senate Bill eight, actually

907
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 5: has asked the Texas Medical Board to issue guidance on

908
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 5: what counts as a medical exception to the states abortion laws.

909
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I think what.

910
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 5: We have the opportunity to do is not have people

911
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 5: in these seats that have campaigned on protesting abortion clinics,

912
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: and right, we can have people that have at least

913
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 5: some shred of in frankly, integrity when looking at these cases.

914
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 5: And that's just not what we have in these three

915
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 5: folks right now.

916
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense? You know, working on the judiciary

917
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: is something that Democrats really are late on. Right there

918
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: is no democratic version of the federal society, so it's

919
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: such an important way to target these abortion restrictions.

920
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 5: Frankly, people have not paid just a whole lot of

921
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 5: attention to the Texas Supreme Court, but now in the

922
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 5: rulings of these cases and seeing the everyday impact in

923
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 5: their lives, I mean, they are coming to certainly know

924
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 5: the importance of the court and we will work to

925
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 5: educate them on that continually, as well as the backgrounds

926
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 5: of these individuals and why it certainly would serve better.

927
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 5: I should mention to your point, this is the first

928
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 5: time in our state that we have had a concerted

929
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 5: effort to change the makeup of the court. So again,

930
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 5: I think based on what we've seen in two other states,

931
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 5: Kansas and Kentucky on this issue, Frankly, as people are

932
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 5: recognizing that you know, could happen within their own families,

933
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 5: and Lauren doesn't know this because it literally just happened

934
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 5: last night. But we launched the pack yesterday and one

935
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 5: by a friend of mine that I haven't been in

936
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 5: contact with for a little bit, reached out. It essentially

937
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 5: had like the exact same case as Lauren. And so

938
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 5: I just don't think folks are aware of how common

939
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 5: this is, and frankly, how many people in our community

940
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 5: and our families and you know, in our in our

941
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 5: groups of friends, this can easily be an issue for

942
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 5: and this is a non partisan issue.

943
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not sure, you know, Molly.

944
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 5: If you're going to take maybe ninety seconds to play

945
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 5: folks the ad for folks, But this is a non

946
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 5: partisan issue. It now, obviously the two main parties have

947
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 5: different stances on this issue, but I think that's probably

948
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 5: more reflective of their values. There's nothing inherent about you know,

949
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 5: somebody being able to listen to their doctor, or having

950
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 5: a say in their own fertility or you know, having

951
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 5: a seine when they're going to.

952
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 2: Have more kids. There's nothing partisan about that.

953
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 5: So you know, we'll continue to talk about the issue

954
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 5: because I think that's how we reached to most non folks.

955
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: And that's what I think is really shocking about where

956
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: we are, is that it has become controversial to speak

957
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: with your doctor and get the best advice for your

958
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 2: situation and to get medical care for your situation across

959
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: both parties. It doesn't matter because there's a one in

960
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: four miscarriage bodies don't care about your party. That's just

961
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: going to be what the math is. And these types

962
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: of bands and these types of rulings impact miscarriage care too,

963
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: and so this hurts everybody. And you see this, you

964
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: know in the case, it went from the you know,

965
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: the doctors saying this is what we need. I just

966
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: want to have permission, and then you saw that just

967
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: get overturned.

968
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 5: And we should also say that like this, on the

969
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 5: issue of medical exceptions, Texans are with us on this issue,

970
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 5: right And I mean so the University of Houstons Hobby

971
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 5: School of Public Affairs, they did a survey, they published

972
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 5: it in the February of last year, and in that survey,

973
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 5: eighty two percent of those that responded supported medical exceptions.

974
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 5: It's not even close. The other thing is that I

975
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 5: think we sh be very clear about the point that

976
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 5: Lauren just made, which is the impact that this is

977
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 5: already having on our inadequate level of one healthcare period.

978
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 5: But obgyns in our state, the number of folks that

979
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 5: are not coming here after their training, the number of

980
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 5: obgyns that are preferring to not practice here now as

981
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 5: a result, I mean, that does not bode well again

982
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 5: in our state. One in ten kids in this country

983
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 5: lives in Texas. As goes Texas, so goes this country.

984
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 5: And that's why this effort is also important because we

985
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 5: see that many of the most frankly extremist policies, extremist

986
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 5: laws are sometimes tested in Texas before they're exported, right,

987
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 5: And so I think we've got a real opportunity to

988
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 5: send a message serbly to these justices as well as

989
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 5: every justice in this state, as well as those other

990
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 5: states who are thinking about brankly playing around with these

991
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 5: women's lives in a way that it frankly just makes

992
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 5: it more dangerous to be a woman.

993
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 2: Just to show real quick what a horror show it is.

994
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: One of my friends is that Iobi and Austin, and

995
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 2: she said just last week she's never seen this many

996
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: pregnant fourteen and fifteen year olds. So that's where we

997
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 2: are heading if things don't start changing Jesus.

998
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 5: So if folks would visit, you know, find out pack

999
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 5: dot com, please donate, you know, please share the launch video.

1000
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 5: And you know we look forward to to making sure

1001
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 5: that we've got Supreme Court justices are that are worthy.

1002
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 2: Of our state.

1003
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thanks Sally.

1004
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1005
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: A moment pecto Jesse Cannon my jump fast.

1006
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 3: You know, as much as I'm amused by Kristen Cinema's outfits,

1007
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 3: I'm not going to miss her if she goes.

1008
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: What are you seeing here? So it seems like Kirsten Cinema,

1009
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: Arizona's senior senator, may not be running again. And the

1010
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: reason why we think this comes from the Daily Beast.

1011
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Perhaps you've heard of it that she spent two hundred

1012
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: and ten thousand dollars in private air travel private air travel.

1013
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: You'll remember that this is a woman who wasally part

1014
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: of the Green Party. She is now part of the

1015
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: I don't fly commercial party. Either way, it's good news

1016
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: for Reuben Diego. For that it is our moment of fuckery.

1017
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: Do not fly private, do not waste taxpayer money. And

1018
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: for that that is our moment of fuckery. That's it

1019
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

1020
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

1021
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

1022
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1023
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.