1
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,680
Speaker 1: I found this whole exercise very instructive and and the

2
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,879
Speaker 1: main thing I learned is that like at least twenty

3
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,880
Speaker 1: percent of our audience is made up of sadists, muskie

4
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: saw aggressive. They attack your trolling though little cherry, garlic,

5
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,520
Speaker 1: hot dog, and it's on piper kind of squirrely. It's

6
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 1: and it's not the big ones, it's the small ones

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: that you have to watch out for. It. It took

8
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: twenty tries for him to finally pop the hook through,

9
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: but we're sixty five off. What choice do I have,

10
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, Good morning, degenerate anglers. Welcome to Ben the

11
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 1: Fishing Podcast that won't turn ghost white or throw up

12
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,840
Speaker 1: at subway tuna when you bury a four oh treble

13
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: hook in the meat of your hand. I'm Joe Surmelie

14
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: Miles Nulty and I have seen grown men, though never women,

15
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 1: reduced to quivering sacks of fear and shock at the

16
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,160
Speaker 1: sight of just a little metal cylinder disappearing into flesh.

17
00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and you know, I'll I'll tell you what

18
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 1: you're right about him in too, they handle that much better,

19
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 1: that much better. Though, there was this one time I

20
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 1: asked my wife to grab a rod out of my

21
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: roof rack and she put a dog hook in her arm,

22
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 1: and she cried and screamed obscenities at me. But but

23
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: that was just that one time. To your point, though,

24
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 1: it is interesting that the hook doesn't even have to

25
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,319
Speaker 1: be in that person's flesh, right, Like I've seen people

26
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 1: nearly pass out at the sight of someone else like

27
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: catching a hook deep. So, and and quick disclaimer, because

28
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,559
Speaker 1: we're already going there. If you're one of those people

29
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 1: who get squeamish about hooks and body parts, you might

30
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,759
Speaker 1: wanna you might want to skip this episode. We hope

31
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: you don't, but you might consider. But we want to

32
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: give you the option so we don't make you miserable

33
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: the whole time because we're we're going straight to the

34
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 1: shank for the next hour or so. I've got a

35
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 1: handful of really good hook stories that I've collected over

36
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: the years, both removing hooks from other people and from myself.

37
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: But one happens just a few weeks ago, and that's

38
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: that's what inspired this week's theme. Yeah, story time with

39
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,640
Speaker 1: Miles film. I feel I feel like we need, like

40
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,440
Speaker 1: we need to make an intro for these at some point.

41
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 1: I like that, but If you do that, I vote

42
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 1: that we should integrate some kind of clip from Mr

43
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:19,080
Speaker 1: Robinson's neighborhood. Hello boy, the girl off One Man. Eddie

44
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:24,040
Speaker 1: Murphy was genius on now I mean little Richard Simmons,

45
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,440
Speaker 1: Come on anyway back to your story. No, we're not

46
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: talking Eddie Murphy. No, no, uh so I recently went

47
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,000
Speaker 1: to a like a family reunion at my uncle and

48
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 1: a's place in northern Wisconsin. We had three generations, which

49
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 1: was nice. It's I think ages went from two to

50
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 1: seventy seven. That's a gap, it was a span. It

51
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: was really nice. The it was your quintessential family week

52
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,840
Speaker 1: the lake right, water skiing, grilling, cornhole, water fights, copious cocktails,

53
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: lots of laughing, all the you know. It was. It

54
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: was all the rich human connection that has been just

55
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 1: totally missing for the past eighteen years, and we tried

56
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 1: to cram it all into one week. It's also pretty

57
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,079
Speaker 1: much everything you see on Charlie Baron's channel, So it

58
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 1: was it was very much like, uh, we've been trying

59
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: to get on this show Charlie anytime now, anytime, any time,

60
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 1: you can come on anytime you want. But the one

61
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 1: thing we didn't have enough of we just ran out

62
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 1: of because we tried to cram it all into one

63
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 1: week was fishing time. So last day of the trip,

64
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 1: half the family is already gone, my two uncles and

65
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: and these are the men, I should say, who seated

66
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 1: my love for fishing. These are the guys who baited

67
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: hooks and untangled lines when I was four, you know,

68
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 1: the ones who nurtured and mentored and just put up

69
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,119
Speaker 1: with me for decades. So these guys insisted, like last day,

70
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: you're about to leave your flying out, we gotta go

71
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 1: out for a few hours. And I said great, So

72
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 1: we trail it up and we went over to this

73
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,560
Speaker 1: lake that used to be one of my father's favorites,

74
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 1: and we headed right to the spot where my dad

75
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 1: caught his biggest bass ever. And it's the same spot

76
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: where we later scattered his ashes. So it's it's a

77
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: it's like a powerful place show my family. And of course,

78
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 1: right there, right at that spot, my uncle Jim hooks

79
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:17,159
Speaker 1: up bam. It wasn't anything noteworthy, right, it was. It

80
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,680
Speaker 1: was like a half pound large still felt significant right

81
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 1: where it was and what we were doing, what was

82
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,320
Speaker 1: going on, And so I think we experienced as a boat,

83
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 1: this moment of of profound awe gratitude. It was. It

84
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 1: was one of those one of those times that brings

85
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 1: out spiritual feeling. Even if you're not officially spiritual, you

86
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,599
Speaker 1: just kind of get the that that sense inside little

87
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,880
Speaker 1: connection I was talking about. Yeah, And as I was

88
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: basking in that sublime glow, this loud, shocked, oh god, damn,

89
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 1: it brings out from the bow of the boat. And

90
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 1: I should say that my uncle Jim is not a

91
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,600
Speaker 1: man who swears casual. He does have quite the arsenal

92
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,760
Speaker 1: of expletives, but he saves them for very special occasions.

93
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 1: So I look up and I see one of the

94
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 1: points of the rear treble on the lure that he

95
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 1: was using, buried in the index finger of his left hand,

96
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,359
Speaker 1: right right next to the fingernail bed, which is a

97
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,920
Speaker 1: very painful place to get. I've had one there. And

98
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 1: the bass, of course, is still pinned on the front

99
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 1: trouble with two of the hooks. So I grab a

100
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 1: set of fliers, I run up and hooked the bass.

101
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,920
Speaker 1: I let it go. Jim looks at his finger and says, well,

102
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just have to push that through and

103
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,280
Speaker 1: I'll have you cut the hook And I'm not a

104
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: fan of that. For the record, I don't so I say,

105
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, uncle Jim, there's an easier way. This is

106
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 1: something I've done many times. I can take that hook out.

107
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: I've taken a lot of hooks out of a lot

108
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 1: of people, and it will hurt much less. And though

109
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,240
Speaker 1: I am a grown man and have made my living

110
00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: in the fishing industry for over a decade, in the

111
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: eyes of my uncle's I'm still kind of a kid.

112
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, family members. Yeah, you don't know.

113
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. Forty years old.

114
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,840
Speaker 1: You don't know anything. Nothing. And I mean I wouldn't

115
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,479
Speaker 1: say I don't think that I know nothing, but like

116
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. Because Jim mel Jim is

117
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with this, this tactic for hook removal, so he

118
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: was skeptical. I think it's a good way of putting it,

119
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 1: and so I spent ten minutes explaining what I'm gonna do,

120
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: how it's gonna work, how I've done it before. I'm

121
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,279
Speaker 1: trying to instill confidence, and he finally agrees, all right,

122
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,919
Speaker 1: go ahead and give it a shot. So I cut

123
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,600
Speaker 1: the eighty pound floral bite tippet that I was using

124
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,160
Speaker 1: off and I tied into a perfection loop and I

125
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: snug it up to the bend of the hook, and

126
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,880
Speaker 1: I wrapped the leader around my hand and popped it.

127
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 1: Everyone work perfectly, Yeah, it usually does. Trouble back right

128
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: out of his ring finger clean went sailing through the air,

129
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,239
Speaker 1: and I had this moment of relief mixed with pride

130
00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,080
Speaker 1: having saved the day, improving myself, you know. And and

131
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: the fishing trip is back on, and then the glorious

132
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 1: arc of this trouble flying out of his left hand

133
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: just comes to this sickening stop somehow, And I really

134
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: don't know how this happened. My uncle Jim managed to

135
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: place his right hand the other hand directly in the

136
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: trajectory of the hook as it was exiting his left.

137
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 1: Like I don't know how this happened. I literally ripped

138
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: the trouble out of his left hand. It flew through

139
00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 1: the air for several feet and then buried not one

140
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 1: but two points really deep into his right hand. So

141
00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: I just I just throw in that while like the

142
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 1: odds of that happening are slim, that's the kind of

143
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 1: thing that that happens to me so frequently. I would

144
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: have just been like, yeah, that's about right. I've been like, yeah,

145
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: that's perfect. I could not believe it. And the weird

146
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: so that's already weird. But this is another thing I've

147
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: never seen before. He managed to put one hook on

148
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 1: the trouble into his right forefinger and another hook on

149
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 1: the same trouble into his right thumb, so his hand

150
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: was like pinned together in this weird, creepy, claw like maneuver.

151
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:21,440
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. And of course he

152
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: let out another string of very well earned expletives, and

153
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 1: then he turned to me and said, I really liked

154
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 1: your hook removal technique for about a half a second,

155
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not so sure about it now, which was fair. Yeah,

156
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 1: this technique, which I will explain in detail later in

157
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,080
Speaker 1: the show, it works great for removing single hooks. I've

158
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,200
Speaker 1: I have an excellent track record with one hook, but

159
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 1: when you have two barbed hook from the same trouble

160
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: buried in two different fingers on the same hand, that

161
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,680
Speaker 1: that removal job is just above my pay right, I

162
00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 1: don't know how to do that. So sadly we had

163
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 1: to pull the plug on the fishing trip. After one fish,

164
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,880
Speaker 1: get back to the trailer, take Jim to the e

165
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 1: r good news. We're all laughing about it by the

166
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 1: time we hit the ramp, and my uncle's were even

167
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 1: willing to let me take a few photos and a

168
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,599
Speaker 1: selfie of the incident, which you can see on my instagram.

169
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 1: If you were into that kind of thing and you're

170
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 1: not squeamish about blood, yeah, we'll throw it up. I'll

171
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: throw it up in my story this week too. We

172
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: love a good we love a good blood shot. But

173
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,439
Speaker 1: that look, man, that's a pickle. Okay, I'm thinking as

174
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,439
Speaker 1: you're telling the story, I'm thinking on that because I'm

175
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm always trying to avoid leaving the water if possible,

176
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,280
Speaker 1: Like that's the last thing you want to do, right, um, don't.

177
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,959
Speaker 1: It's like, it's hard to say how I would have

178
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 1: handled that without being there and seeing it. But I

179
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I might have made your uncle suffer

180
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,440
Speaker 1: through like one line pole and one push through. Maybe

181
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, like cut cut off the bend of

182
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,600
Speaker 1: of of one of the points, you know what I mean,

183
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: because separate it. I don't know. It's it's hard to say.

184
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 1: It's a tough one. It's a dealy of a pickle. Um.

185
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what I would have done, just curious

186
00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 1: what kind of lure was it? Well, first, you were

187
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: a sadist for just even saying that. But to answer

188
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: your your question, Hannibal Lecter, it was a full sized

189
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 1: magic man lipless crank bait from thirteen Fishing. I'm asking

190
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,880
Speaker 1: because there's a difference between trying to do it with

191
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 1: little trebles on a little something versus like trebles on

192
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: a muskie lore. So it was. It was not a

193
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 1: muskie plug, it was. It was a bass sized, yeah,

194
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 1: lipless crank bait and a magic man from thirteen Fishing,

195
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: to be specific. And there are three things that I

196
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 1: can absolutely attest to about that bait. Number one, bass

197
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 1: do eat it, seen it happen. Number two, the hooks

198
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 1: are extremely sharp. Number three the barbs hold very well.

199
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,439
Speaker 1: So we're proud to have thirteen Phishing sponsor the show,

200
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: though for legal reasons, I am compelled to tell you

201
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 1: that they absolutely do not condone any d i y

202
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,359
Speaker 1: medical advice we may provide, and cannot be held accountable

203
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: for any injuries you sustain as a result of listening

204
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 1: to the show. Yes, don't listen to us or me.

205
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 1: At least Miles is smarter. But you should always listen

206
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 1: to your guide, which is a painful reminder. We're gonna

207
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 1: drive home with our Smooth Move segment this week. Joining

208
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: us again are good buddy from the North Canada, Jay Siemens.

209
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:25,520
Speaker 1: Why why did you hanging out with us today? For

210
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 1: adult story of time? We got Jay Siemens. Jay's a photographer, cinematographer,

211
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 1: filmmaker and former fishing guide at Wallaston Lake Lodge, which,

212
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 1: if you don't know, is like Valhalla for big pike fishing. Jay,

213
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,280
Speaker 1: thanks for coming and making some time. Dude. What's good?

214
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 1: How are you? We're good? Good? Uh? We still ice

215
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,720
Speaker 1: up here. You guys down south are all in the boater, eddie,

216
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 1: and we can still that's terrible. I'm wearing short span

217
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: and jersey. It's yeah. We got open water here now

218
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,959
Speaker 1: there's not much ice left. Uh. And I don't know.

219
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 1: I don't know that a lot of people know you're

220
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,560
Speaker 1: responsible with this, but you made a film a few

221
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 1: years go called Common Thread that I really enjoyed, and

222
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,679
Speaker 1: I'm just curious about, like, where did that project come from?

223
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: How did that all come together well, as you mentioned,

224
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: I guided at Walston for for seven years, and the

225
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,200
Speaker 1: owner there had had said, let's do a fly fishing film.

226
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,840
Speaker 1: We never really had an idea, but then then eventually

227
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: there's this this woman named Mary, and Mary I used

228
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: to come up to the lodge with her husband, and

229
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 1: husband passed away, and the question was is Mary gonna

230
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 1: keep coming to the lodge? What's what's going to happen?

231
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 1: And She's like, you know what, I'm gonna keep coming

232
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,559
Speaker 1: up without without the guys, I'm gonna come up and

233
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn how to fly fish. So this seven

234
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: year old widow learned how to fly fish, and uh,

235
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,959
Speaker 1: kind of just the film tells the story of what

236
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: fly fishing means to her family and her brother and

237
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 1: kind of how it was just a common thread that

238
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 1: bound them all together. So I felt very connected because

239
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 1: I had actually guided them years previously, and then I

240
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 1: got to come back and film and so it's like

241
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,440
Speaker 1: kind of the best of both worlds there. It came

242
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,840
Speaker 1: together really well, was it was. It was a great storyline,

243
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 1: great narrative, and and also just fun to watch with

244
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,959
Speaker 1: the big pike and the fishing as as heartwarming as

245
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: that is, we actually brought you here to do the opposite, right.

246
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,199
Speaker 1: That film was all about giving giving credit to someone

247
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,720
Speaker 1: who you guided and and and making them the center

248
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 1: of a positive story. But you know this is smooth moves,

249
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 1: So we brought you here to tell a different kind

250
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,079
Speaker 1: of story about your days of guiding. So we're curious,

251
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 1: what do you got for us? Man? Oh Man, I

252
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 1: have like way too many that kind of focus on

253
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 1: focus on me making really dumb moves. And maybe we'll

254
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,760
Speaker 1: save this for a different time. But one one story

255
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: that sticks out of my mind where we're at this

256
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,600
Speaker 1: remote flying pike lake and we were just crushing the pike.

257
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: We pulled into this one cove and I think we've

258
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,840
Speaker 1: probably got this one cove and and this this guest

259
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,199
Speaker 1: it's like, hey man, can I hook the fish? And

260
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,360
Speaker 1: it's like a pretty strict policy. It's like the guy

261
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: touches the fish, No, you're not touching the fish. And

262
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 1: and this guy just kept hammering me. He's like, Jay, please,

263
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: just I'm fine, Like they're catching doubleheaders and he thought

264
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,120
Speaker 1: he was doing me a favor and I keep telling

265
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,679
Speaker 1: him no, and finally like okay, okay, unhooked the fish.

266
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 1: The first fish he touches does a thrash, and he's

267
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,319
Speaker 1: got trouble hooks in his hand, and I'm just like,

268
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, and there I am eighteen years old and

269
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to calm down this forty five year old

270
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 1: man and it's just like just a disaster. So I mean,

271
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: you grab, you grab the hook and luckily it's it's

272
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 1: barblous hooks up at Walston and you know the key

273
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 1: is to count to three, but you pull on the

274
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 1: count too, so he's not expecting it and he got

275
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 1: the hook out. But that was a pretty good lesson,

276
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 1: a pretty good lesson for him that I think he

277
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: learned pretty quickly. The guide knows best, you know, even

278
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,800
Speaker 1: even if he is half your age. Well what about

279
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 1: for you? I mean, he got a lesson there, but

280
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 1: did you, as an eighteen year old, did you decide?

281
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: Then they're like, I'm never letting client touch a fish

282
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: ever again. It's tough because you tell, you tell yourself

283
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 1: that's never gonna happen again, and then you let someone

284
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: do it and they lose your trust instantly when they,

285
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, drop a fish or get hooked or whatever

286
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 1: that might be. But yeah, pipe pip, you're kind of squirrely.

287
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 1: It's and it's not the big ones, it's the small

288
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,080
Speaker 1: ones that you have to watch out for. It are like, yeah,

289
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,640
Speaker 1: they're the ones that just start snaking in your hands.

290
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 1: And my last follow up question is is how did

291
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 1: how did that particular client respond to the hook removal.

292
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 1: Was it like a full on fall apart meltdown or

293
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,760
Speaker 1: did he did he take it pretty solid? He was

294
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 1: good about it. He he went straight back to fishing.

295
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: But I had another guest who put a hook into

296
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 1: his buddy's head, into the back of the head when

297
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 1: we were pike fishing. And this was one of my

298
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 1: least favorite guests and probably seven years of guiding, and

299
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: he just so happened to be the guy that hooked

300
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 1: the other guy in the head. And it was funny

301
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: because the guy that put the hook that snagged his

302
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,280
Speaker 1: friend in the head, he was the one that freaked

303
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: out more than actually the guy that got hooked. The

304
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: guy that got hooked was calm about it, just holding

305
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 1: his head, and the guy that hooked him was just

306
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 1: losing his mind. And the hook went through his hat

307
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: into the back of his head. And the same situation

308
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: had to had to rip it out of his head.

309
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, you gotta be prepared for those things. And

310
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: did the guy apologize after you told him not to

311
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 1: unhook the face? Did he say like, I'm sorry I

312
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 1: did that. I should have listened to you. Yeah, but

313
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 1: I think the thing is like it it ended. It

314
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 1: ended fine. We pulled the hook out. I think if

315
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: we were calling for an emergency plane to come in

316
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: and pull us out, it might be a different situation.

317
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: But for him, it was just like, I'm gonna go

318
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 1: back to fishing, and then you know, it is what

319
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 1: it is. So I have never had to go to

320
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 1: the hospital to get a hook removed, but probably the

321
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: closest call I ever had, I took a clouser to

322
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: the face years ago and the hook it hit me

323
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: just right in The hook actually ended up up under

324
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,640
Speaker 1: my son, like like it was buried right below my

325
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: eye right. And what made this one also particularly memorable.

326
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 1: While I will not name names, just suffice it to say,

327
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: a very well known fly caster put it there, and

328
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: I felt way worse for him than myself, Like we

329
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 1: got that hook out, no problem, right, but it totally

330
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: ruined the rest of the float for him, and I

331
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 1: had to keep pleading with him the entire it happened

332
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,439
Speaker 1: like first mile of a ten mile float, right, and

333
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 1: I just had to keep pleading with him, like, dude,

334
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 1: please snap out of it, like this was not that

335
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,159
Speaker 1: big a deal. This ship happens, it's it's okay, but

336
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 1: it like ruined him for the rest of the day.

337
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 1: And we can't say this person's name for a lot

338
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 1: of reasons, but I am lucky enough to know who

339
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 1: it is, and I can. I can understand why it

340
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,199
Speaker 1: was in his head because it's sort of like his

341
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 1: whole identity is being really good casting. I will just

342
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 1: say this, we were forced by water conditions to use

343
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: really heavy sink tips that day, which he doesn't do,

344
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,199
Speaker 1: like he preferred to never do that, so that was

345
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 1: also part of it. They're they're all kinds of good reasons,

346
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,920
Speaker 1: but still like I understand why he was uncomfortable. Yes,

347
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: that by for the record, that that the whole thing

348
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,199
Speaker 1: is my nightmare. And that is why I wear the

349
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: wraparound I shield like tight to my face sunglasses all

350
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: the time, Like I can. I can handle a scar

351
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 1: or two, I can handle some blood. I cannot regrow

352
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: an eyeball. Yeah, I prefer to have both of those.

353
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: Those are those are kind of important and and hopefully

354
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 1: neither of us will pick up any news cars or

355
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 1: puncture a cornea in the heat of this week's battle

356
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 1: of wits, but you never know, it's time for fish news.

357
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:29,760
Speaker 1: Fish news. That escalated quickly, so I don't really have

358
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 1: much housekeeping this week, but I would just like to

359
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: say thank you to everyone that wrote in to support

360
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 1: my claim that dolphins are actually shitty animals. Yeah, okay, okay,

361
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: you said dolphins was like hating puppies. Well, I think

362
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people hate puppies, my friend, I learned.

363
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 1: I actually I found this whole exercise very instructive and

364
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,439
Speaker 1: and the main thing I learned is that like at

365
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: least twenty percent of our audience is made up of sadists.

366
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: So I'm afraid of most of you, and go on

367
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 1: with your your puppy and dolphin killing whatever. Yeah, I mean,

368
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 1: the masses have spoken though, and dolphins are evil. We do.

369
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,199
Speaker 1: We even got an email with a subject line not

370
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: puppies that like, I don't. I don't know, dude, Do

371
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,360
Speaker 1: I smell a dolphins bent shirt down the road? Perhaps

372
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 1: I do? I will not sign off on that, but

373
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: I'll sign off on it twice. Um. Also, thanks to everyone,

374
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 1: and I do mean everyone on planet Earth, I think

375
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: for sending me the tuggy sandbox that was turned into

376
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 1: a go cart, not just do you. I I got

377
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,399
Speaker 1: that one about eighties seven thousand times. It's like that

378
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 1: was neat and I appreciate you, PLI you you know,

379
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 1: so got it message received anyway, that's it. That's all.

380
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: That's all I got. So let's we'll get news he here.

381
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,919
Speaker 1: Remember this is a competition, Miles and I do not

382
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 1: know what stories the other guy is bringing to the table.

383
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: And at the end, our audio engineer, Phil will declare

384
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 1: a winner. And can I just say, Phil's judgment is

385
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: my favorite part of my own entire show, Like it

386
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: might it might be the best part of this show.

387
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: And it's it's getting out of the most professional part

388
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: of the show. It's getting out of control, but in

389
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: like the best possible way. And every week, every week,

390
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: Whiles and I get to listen to the show before

391
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 1: it gets posted, and I anticipate Phil's bit like a

392
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 1: child like hovering at the top of the staircase on

393
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: Christmas morning, what's at the bottom of the staircase this week,

394
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, it's just I love it so much. Anyway,

395
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: it is your leadoff this week for this it is

396
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 1: so hit me, all right, This first one is is

397
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: really it's a core story for me. And I'll just

398
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 1: started off by saying, I think public access to phishing

399
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 1: spots is essential to American fishing. I think it is

400
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: at the core of American fishing. Have to agree and

401
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: and because of that, I consider the public trust doctrine,

402
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: which is shaped water access laws since before the US

403
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 1: was a country, to be one of the great principles

404
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: of the American ethos. In most cases, we the people

405
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: are allowed to access and utilize our rivers, lakes, and oceans,

406
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: a right and privilege that much the world just doesn't

407
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: enjoy it. They just don't have And all of that

408
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: is a big part of the reason we have such

409
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: a vibrant and diverse fishing culture in this country. But

410
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: that access is not codified in federal law. The rules

411
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: differ between states, so state legislatures and judiciaries have discretion

412
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: in how they interpret and apply the public trust doctrine,

413
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: which has led to the erosion of fishing access in

414
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: some places, one of the major points of divergence affects

415
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: access to rivers and streams without going way off into

416
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 1: the weeds. A lot of this hinges on how states

417
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: define a navigable body of water and how they recognize

418
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: historic easements. Some states, like Montana, have a broad definition

419
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: of navigability inscribed in the state constitution. If a log

420
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: could have been floated down a river at the time

421
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: of statehood in in Montana, it's therefore navigable. I can't wait. Yeah,

422
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: so long as you can find a parcel public land

423
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: that abuts the river, you can legally walk and fish

424
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: without trespassing if you stay between the traditional high water marks.

425
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: Other states, though, like Wyoming and Colorado and a bunch

426
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: of other ones, have have a different, narrower interpretation of navigability.

427
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: In those states, most stream beds can be privately owned,

428
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: meaning that many rivers and streams can essentially be shut

429
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: off from the public uh In and yet still other states,

430
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: the specifics of who has the right to fish wear

431
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: remains unsettled, which has led to fights over access all

432
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: over the West in recent decades. Landowners, some of them

433
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: very wealthy individuals and often from out of state have

434
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: long been trying to undermine the legality of the Montana

435
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: stream access law. One particular individual, Jim Cox Kennedy, who

436
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: owns a very large vacation home on the Ruby River,

437
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 1: cloggs the courts with like a near constant stream of

438
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: anti access lawsuits, and those lawsuits work their way up

439
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: the chain and so far have been consistently rebuffed, sometimes

440
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: by the state Supreme Court. Kennedy even unsuccessfully challenged the

441
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: legality of the Montana State Constitution at the U. S

442
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: Supreme Court of Use back and and failed, all in

443
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: an effort to keep the unwashed masses off a stretch

444
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: of river he likes to consider his own. Thankfully, he

445
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: and others like him, washed up Rocker hue Lewis, have

446
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: remained unsuccessful here in Montana, but just south of here,

447
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: in Utah, the fight has been even more pitched up.

448
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: Until a few decades ago, most Utah rivers were treated

449
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: as public resources. People fish them as they wanted, and

450
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: most farmers and ranchers and landowners allowed that to happen

451
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: so long as everyone remained like a bunch of fonzies

452
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: and stayed cool. But in the nineties that all started

453
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: to change as more and more folks wanted to experience

454
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: Utah's exceptional fisheries, and those fisheries began to represent profit

455
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: and value. Landowners started shutting off access to rivers and

456
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: streams and telling anglers they couldn't fish the places they've

457
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: been going their entire lives. Courts began to see a

458
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: consistent parade of cases to determine who had the right

459
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: to what. In two thousand eight, the Utah Supreme Court

460
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: recognized public easement to streams, essentially adopting a similar perspective

461
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: as Montana. Two years later, in two thousand ten, the

462
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: Utah State Legislature passed a bill declaring stream and riverbeds

463
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: private property. That bill privatized fort sent of the total

464
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: fishable rivers and streams in the state. Overnight, floaters, voters,

465
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: and anglers came together to create the Utah Stream Access Coalition,

466
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: and lawyers have been going at it ever since. The

467
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: coalition focus their efforts on two rivers, the Weaber and

468
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: the Provo, hoping to establish precedents that might pave the

469
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: way to open up more rivers and streams. On the Weaber,

470
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: they successfully showed the river had been used to transport

471
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: goods at the time of statehood and therefore definitively met

472
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: the federal definition of navigable. On the provo, that took

473
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: a different tack, bringing a lawsuit against an exclusive resort

474
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: on the Upper River and arguing that Utah's customarily accessed

475
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: those waters prior to statehood and that use represented a

476
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: historic easement. In a district court judge sided with the

477
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: stream Access coalition, and that was heralded as a huge

478
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: win for water access all over the state. Put on appeal,

479
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: the Utah State Supreme Court remanded that case back down

480
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: to district court, and in a bizarre and unnerving twist,

481
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: the very same judge who previously ruled in favor of

482
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: access did a complete one a few weeks ago. That

483
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: judge declared, quote, public use of non navigable riverbeds and

484
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: stream beds in the territory between eighteen fifty one and

485
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine could not create an easement dictated by

486
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: the law in the late nineteenth century, and with those words,

487
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: Utahn's once again lost the right to fish thousands of

488
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: acres of water. The decision was a crushing blow to

489
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: stream access, not just on the provo but across the state,

490
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: because if the court had upheld that historic use created

491
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: an easement, most of the state's rivers and stream beds

492
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: would have to be defined as public, and that that

493
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: House bill that got passed would be a cent le

494
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: null and void. It's made it easier for everybody to privatize.

495
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: It all went back to private essentially. And and I'm

496
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: gonna stop being even mildly journalistic now, not that I

497
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: was really doing a great job before. And I'm just

498
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: gonna go straight up ed because this is horseshit. I'm

499
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: unabashedly pro access, I admit it. That's that's my bias.

500
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: I've written about and advocated for maintaining or expanding water

501
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: access for a lot of my career. The fact that

502
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: wealthy individuals are able to manipulate courts and legislatures in

503
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: order to create legal loopholes that prevent the American people

504
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: from recreating on rivers and streams. It infuriates me, It

505
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: really does. And I am not opposed to private property rights.

506
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: I just think they need to have reasonable limitations for

507
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: the greater good. I get it. I understand that anglers

508
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: can sometimes be shitty stewards of the resource, and I

509
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: sympathize with landowners that have to deal with disrespectful people

510
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: fishing on their property and leaving trash or otherwise acting

511
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: like entitled jerk offs. That behavior is also unacceptable. We

512
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: all have a responsibility to conduct ourselves with the utmost

513
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: care and tact when we're fishing public water, especially when

514
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: those waters cross private property. But shutting down access to

515
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: of a state's flowing fisheries to appease the wealthy class

516
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: is not an appropriate response to bad behavior by a

517
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: minority of the fishing public. That's a wholesale taking of

518
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: public rights and resources. The fact that the same judge

519
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: would completely reverse himself in the same case six years

520
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: later strikes me as deeply shady. Yeah, and I think

521
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: this is just a depressing outcome for the entire state

522
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: of Utah and all of US American people in general.

523
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm very piste off about this. Yeah, that sounds like

524
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: some kind of kick back there. I hate to say it,

525
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: like some somebody grease to pocket on that one. Um, dude,

526
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm fully on your side, right, and this is

527
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: this is a travesty though, Like you know, you brought

528
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: up nav well waterways things like that. I think part

529
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: of the problem. And and this does not justify measures

530
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: this drastic, but I've even had some some encounters and

531
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: run ins on on private water and I think the

532
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: problem is that so many people think they know what

533
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: the rules are, but they don't actually have any idea

534
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: and just sort of do what they want without paying attention.

535
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: So like navigable waterway. I used to belong to a

536
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: trout club here years ago, um, which I don't anymore,

537
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: but that's neither here nor there, and you'd have people

538
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: sneak in all the time, like you'd see somebody trespass

539
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: or or float through on a kayak and fish, and

540
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: they would get all mouth because they're like, well, you can't.

541
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: This is not this is a navigable waterway. I'm like, no,

542
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: it's not. This is a creek that's thirty feet across

543
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Same thing with the high water marks.

544
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: I mean, if you are responsible and you understand where

545
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: you can be, that's fine, But I mean so many

546
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: people have that wrong. I've heard people say that here, like, well,

547
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: but of the high water mark, there's no Actually you're wrong,

548
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: that's not the law here. So does that make sense

549
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: that I'm saying, like I think stems too from people

550
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: just assuming they know what's allowed when it's not, and

551
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: and just doing their own thing. Well and and to

552
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: your point, the fact that these laws are piecemeal and

553
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: they're different in every state, and in some states they're

554
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: not even settled. Like I did a whole I worked

555
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: on a very big report about this some years ago

556
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: and really dug deep into the state by state, and

557
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: there are multiple states that really don't even know what

558
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: their definition of navigability is, right. And this is a

559
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: real problem for exactly what you're talking about, because no

560
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: one really knows right like and and if you're maybe

561
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: you are familiar with the law in your state, if

562
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: you cross the border, it's totally different. And this is

563
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: hard for me because I do in many cases believe

564
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: in state autonomy and states rights. But I feel like

565
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: this is a case where we need to standardize this system.

566
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: The problem is that if it gets standardized in the

567
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: wrong way, that I'm gonna be extra piste and and

568
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't want that to happen. So really what I

569
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: want is for them to standardize it according to my

570
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: definition of how it should go, and that's probably not

571
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: gonna happen. No, But navigable gets me all the time.

572
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: I've heard so many people say this is navigable, Like

573
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: do you even know what that means? Well, it's different.

574
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: Navigable in Montana is not navigable in New Jersey. No,

575
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: you're right, But it just rolls off the tongue like, well,

576
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: this is absolutely navigable water we're in right now, Like you,

577
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: you have no idea what you're talking about. Most of

578
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: the time, if I don't just heard that, Yeah, that's

579
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: yours to say, I can be here because this is

580
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: navigable water, Like, that doesn't mean you have to be

581
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: able to take a battleship up it, Like that might

582
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: be the definition. Can I dock a battleship here? You know? Um?

583
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, dude, I mean that's that's absolutely brutal. And

584
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a smooth transition and I don't.

585
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: I don't really have one other than this story is

586
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: kind of kind of brutal too. I guess that's that's weak,

587
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna I'm gonna roll on. Um. So, it

588
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: is late summer, right, which means the great white sharks

589
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: are frolicking close to the shore in the Northeast. The

590
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: browns and black tips and hammer heads, they're doing their

591
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: thing inshore in the mid Atlantic, and of course, as

592
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: always their bulls just waiting for the perfect tourist to

593
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: munch in Florida. But none of those species has made

594
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: a move, at least not a newsworthy one recently. So

595
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: if you're craving a harrowing tale rife with blood in

596
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: the water, I suggest you get off the coast and

597
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: let's head over to Lake St. Clair, so per the

598
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: story from Canada's CBC News. The Alex Kintner Award this

599
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: week goes to Matt Gervais. Gervais lives in Windsor, Ontario,

600
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: which is just across the river from Detroit Um and

601
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: he's a pretty accomplished triathlete. So on August he plunged

602
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: into Lake St. Clair with a friend of his to

603
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: make a routine three kilometers swim for the fitness and

604
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: the health. That's that's why I assume, that's why people

605
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: do these things. But he'd only been in the water

606
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: for about five minutes when something latched on to his hand.

607
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: So Gervais said, your mind goes immediately to shark. But

608
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: I still had my wits about me to know that

609
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: was unlikely. So it's actually more like impossible because to

610
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: get there, shark would have to swim up to St.

611
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: Lawrence Rivers, circumvent Niagara Falls via the well and canal

612
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. And look, I don't

613
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: even actually bring that up to make fun of the

614
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: guy's statement, but just to explain, right, like what a

615
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: shark would have to go through theoretically, because there have

616
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: been hazy reports for decades of bull sharks way up

617
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River and possibly in the Ohio River. Um,

618
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: but getting to Saint Clair would have been extremely difficult,

619
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: like not happening. So, yeah, you probably guessed it by now.

620
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: We have another muskie attack from Yeah, I did this one.

621
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: So from the piece, looking at the fish through the water,

622
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 1: he could see its teeth gripping three of his fingers

623
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: and part of his hand. Gervais says it was over quickly.

624
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: He managed to free himself off after about five seconds,

625
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: but his hand was covered in blood and badly injured.

626
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: Swimming on his back with his injured hand in the air,

627
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: he and his friend made it to the shore approximately

628
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: forty five to the break wall of a home on

629
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Riverside Drive. They climbed a steel ladder to reach the backyard,

630
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: where the homeowner helped clean the wound. So Jervais ended

631
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: up with thirteen stitches in his hand. And and no doubt,

632
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: it's a nasty bright right, Like it's it's not the

633
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: most gruesome thing that I've ever seen, but it's it's

634
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: ugly enough. Like he took a good good it's I've

635
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: ever seen. Yeah, yeah, like he there was some there

636
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: was some tissue damage there for sure. So here's yeah,

637
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: there's stitches. Yes, So here's my cynical takeaway. Right, you

638
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: could not ask for a better bolstering advertisement for St.

639
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: Clair muskie fishing, because let's be honest, right, let's be honest.

640
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: Saint Clair kind of sort of has a reputation is

641
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: the place to go for muskies when you don't want

642
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: to work too hard. And there's there are musky dudes

643
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: right now who are fuming at that statement. And I

644
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: under dan, but like it's it's it's kind of true,

645
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: like I'm extremely musky challenged, right, you know this, lots

646
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: of people know this. I talk about it often and

647
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: time and time again, over and over and over, I hear,

648
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: just go to St. Clair, man, Just go to St. Clair.

649
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: Get it Head off to St. Clair, get it done right,

650
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: because the place is filthy with them almost painting it

651
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: as the place to go if you're musky challenged like me.

652
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: Now again, I'm not saying that there aren't St. Clair

653
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: guys that that fish seriously and put in their time.

654
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: There are, I know some of them, but I also

655
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: know a shipload of people that took their first, second, third,

656
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: and like eighth muskies there in the same day. And

657
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: it's it's often while while trolling. Um. So it's it's

658
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: undeniable that St. Clair's muskie population is huge. And stories

659
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: like this, I don't know, they can easily make you

660
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: think like, well ship they'll just eat anything that that

661
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: hits the water. You know, musky saw aggressive, they attack

662
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: your trolling motive, little cherry garlic hot dog and it's on.

663
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm sorry St Clair Sharpie's I get it.

664
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: But that that is the that is the reputation that

665
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: Lake has. It's true, and and this doesn't dispel any

666
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: of that and all the things. I agree with everything

667
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: you say, but the piece that I took away from

668
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: this did you read the article about this in the

669
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Windsor Star. Yeah, the one that like made muskie sounds

670
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: super aggro. It might be. It's one of the worst

671
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: pieces of fish journalism I've seen a very long time.

672
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: I just I just want to hit some high points

673
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: for everyone out there, just because to me, this is

674
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: so ridiculous. Here's a line. Uh, local tray athlete and

675
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: endurance sports coach is still recovering after his right hand

676
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: was chumped by a hungry muscle lunge. Now, let's take

677
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: a minute and and think about that statement. What kind

678
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: of an idiot do you have to be to think

679
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: the muskie was attempting to eat a full grown human.

680
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: There was no attempt to consume. It wasn't hungry, it

681
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: was piste off. Let's like basic, basic understanding here, dude,

682
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: you dive in from shore. I bet you he swam

683
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: out on top of a freaking giant weed bed right like,

684
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: I guarantee it was full of milk, foil or spatter

685
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: dock or whatever. And that's just where the muskie lives.

686
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: And you interrupted it. And here's a really really excellent

687
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: piece of this is what this is. This is a

688
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: journalist who just did their research. The piece says, quote,

689
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: muskies in Ontario can grow up to forty inches in

690
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: length and way up to twenty three pounds. I know,

691
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: I saw that. Followed by followed the next paragraph, the

692
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: biggest muski caught in Ontario on record weighed in at

693
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: a whopping sixty pounds. Do you not see like you be?

694
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: They're right next to each other on the page. Do

695
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: you not see how wrong that is? If they only

696
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: grew up to forty in nobody would be musky fishing

697
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: in Ontario. We should go elsewhere. I mean, this is

698
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: this is like journalism one oh one. Yeah, I saw

699
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 1: this was written by a bot. I don't. I do

700
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: not understand how this got through any editor. It just

701
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: infuriated me. I'm glad you pulled some of this in

702
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: because your spot on with like fourty inches is like

703
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: the bare minimum for me to feel like I actually

704
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: fought a muskie. They grow up to do they? Now?

705
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 1: That's my fear with fly fishing for muskies, because again

706
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: I haven't achieved that yet, but also it has to

707
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: be I've put forty two inches on it. If it's

708
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: under that, then I still don't feel like I don't

709
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: want to. I can't catch a little tweezer and be like,

710
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: did it. I'm done accomplished that, Like, it's got to

711
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: be at least a real one, and I'd put it

712
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: a couple inches over forty to consider that. So well,

713
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: your bar just keeps getting higher, which is gonna make

714
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: this a more and more difficult thing to achieve. And

715
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do it at all, you you have

716
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: to try. And I know I was just gonna say

717
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: one step one would be going to do it. So

718
00:38:53,280 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, as bad as all of those headlines were,

719
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: because there were some bad ones with that, I'm gonna

720
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring up my personal favorite headline of the week.

721
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: And this one comes to us from Live science dot

722
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: com and it was sent by listener Derek Arniston, so

723
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: thanks Derek. The headline reads sexually frustrated sea snakes mistakes

724
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: scuba divers for potential mates. I love that, and I

725
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: took muskie. I'm glad you took this one. I debated.

726
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: I love that title because it actually really does sum

727
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: up the entire article pretty damn well. But as we know,

728
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm not into the whole brevity thing, so I'm gonna

729
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: give a little more context. In detail, a recently published

730
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: study analyzed hundred and fifty eight interactions between olive sea

731
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: snakes and scuba divers near the Great Barrier Reef. These

732
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: interactions went something like this. A diver would be cruising

733
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: along underwater, checking out the corals and fishes and whatnot,

734
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, a sea snake would appear,

735
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: coiling itself around the diver's fins and repeatedly licking the

736
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: water all around the diver. When the diver tried to

737
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: relocate away from the coiling licking sea reptile, the snake

738
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: would persistently pursue. While these incidents never resulted in any

739
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: bites or injuries, they were consistent enough to be curious,

740
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: hence the study, and that study found that the majority

741
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: of those interactions took place during sea snake mating season,

742
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: which suggested a correlation between sea snakes sexy time and

743
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: diver harassment. Man they're turned up, they are really turned up.

744
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: When a male sea snake wants to make he performs

745
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: courtship rituals like winding his body around a female snake

746
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: if she flees, which is apparently a common response from

747
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: female sea snakes the male pass her, which and all

748
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: that explains the coiling around divers fins and and following

749
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: them when they try to leave. But here's what I

750
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: don't get why divers right our sea snakes actually mistaking

751
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: human divers or are they just like it's implausible, That

752
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: seems implausible, but but apparently that is what's going on

753
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. One, sea snakes have very

754
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: poor eyesight. They only recently evolved right there there there

755
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: recent evolution from land snakes, and and so their hardware

756
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: that they have is better adapted to out of the water,

757
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: and they just don't see all that well under there.

758
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 1: But like you're hinting at, that's only part of the answer.

759
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: It seems this is also an act of shall we say, desperation.

760
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: The studies lead author Rick Shine said it's clear that

761
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: most approaches to divers were by males who had lost

762
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: contact with the females they were pursuing. They frantically search

763
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: for a female if they lose touch with her. So

764
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: you've got all these very excited and spurned snakes that

765
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: are searching around everywhere for anything that might give them

766
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: the time of day. And since they can't see very well.

767
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: They're just trying out whatever moves and then using their

768
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: tongues to try and identify the object that they're rubbing

769
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: up against. Another author of the study, Kim Lynch, wrote

770
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: that is likely why tongue flicking was such a commonly

771
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: observed behavior during interactions with divers. They can only really

772
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: confirm that you were not a female snake by licking you,

773
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 1: and the whole thing. We can just admit that whole

774
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: thing sounds creepy, you know what, very quickly. I just

775
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: watched a great documentary on Woodstock ninety nine and they

776
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: pretty much said the same thing about all the dudes there.

777
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Season This works is because there are parallels that we

778
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: can all drop to humanity, like for being honest, I

779
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: think I think it's a couple of things to hit olive.

780
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: Sea snakes are venomous and they can be deadly to humans.

781
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: But I think it's important to reiterate there have been

782
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: zero cases where a snake has bitten a diver while

783
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: they're just swimming along. The snakes are very curious and

784
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: pretty tame underwater. The only time people get bit by

785
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: sea snakes is when they're doing something stupid. Like trying

786
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: to handle them. Don't do that, So take away here.

787
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: If you find yourself, you know, in this predicament you're

788
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: diving in the Great Barrier reef. Just never You'll never

789
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: find yourself in this predicament in the United States. You

790
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: have to be there. But if you if you're there,

791
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: just just ignore the snake humping your leg and carry

792
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: on with your dive. He will leave you alone once

793
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: he tastes you. Just don't look at it and make

794
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: eye contact. It will go okay totally. He will taste

795
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: you eventually, and then he'll lose interest. Like I don't.

796
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't even have any good follow up on I

797
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: feel like I said everything I needed to say already. Wow,

798
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: that was a very me story, I feel like. But

799
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad you grabbed that. I don't think we've

800
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: done a sea snake anything on this show since so

801
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: how appropriate and I actually believe it or not. I

802
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: have a transition, a better one than the last one.

803
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: We'll go from the Great Barrier reef. How about to

804
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: a reef in Lake Erie. Take you back to the

805
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: Great Lakes. There are no sea snakes there, although you

806
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: know land praise um, but this is actually an uplifting one,

807
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: very uplifting news for Lake Erie. Uh and a bunch

808
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: of you find listeners forward to this along and I

809
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: thank you. This comes from w g RZ News and

810
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: according to this story, natural lake trout reproduction has been

811
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 1: observed in Lake Erie for the first time in sixty years,

812
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: which is kind of a big deal. Okay, So these

813
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: fry were first found by the New York d e C.

814
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: This spring, and they actually trapped them on an offshore reef.

815
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: They were out there looking for suitable lake trout spawning habitats,

816
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: set some traps and they caught these fry, So they

817
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: took some they did some genetic testing and just recently

818
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: confirmed that they are in fact lake trout fry. So,

819
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: historically lakers were the top predator in Lake Erie, but

820
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 1: commercial fishing started for them, I mean like seventeen hundreds

821
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: way back right there for a long time, and by

822
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: nine they were pretty much done. There were no more

823
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: lake trout and Lake Erie they pretty much got wiped. Now,

824
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: population restoration efforts have been going on for a long time.

825
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: Right back in the early eighties, um they really started

826
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: started bearing down on it. But by then those efforts

827
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: faced a lot of new challenges right by. By then

828
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: there was pollution in Lake Erie. The water wasn't as

829
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: clean as it was in the seventeen hundreds. Um, you

830
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,479
Speaker 1: had those sea land praise which became a big deal,

831
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: and they particularly love to latch on and suck the

832
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: life out of a slow moving, kind of lazy lake trout. Um.

833
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: But there have been all kinds of initiatives happening over

834
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: the last few decades to bring back these fish. So

835
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: this recent finding is sort of like the big win

836
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: various groups have been waiting for for a really long time.

837
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: So here's a quote from DC Commissioner Basil Segos, and

838
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: he said this right after the DC he confirmed that

839
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: those were Lake trout fry. He said, today marks a

840
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: key milestone in the restoration of Lake Trout in Lake area.

841
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: After six decades of significant investments to improve water quality

842
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: and habitat and promote sound fisheries management, this phenomenal Great

843
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: Lake story of recovery is a testament to the perseverance

844
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: of the researchers and biologists from d C and partner

845
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 1: agencies who have worked tirelessly to help restore this fishery.

846
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: So we both love lake trout. We've talked about it this.

847
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: I know. I'm a big I'm a big lake trout fan.

848
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: I believe you are too. Um And the one thing

849
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: they don't talk about in this story is the incredibly

850
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 1: stark difference in lake trout populations within a very short

851
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: span of about seven miles. So Lake Erie flows into

852
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: Lake Ontario, right, and it does that via the Niagara River.

853
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: And while the Niagara River isn't very long, you've kind

854
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: of got that whole Niagara Falls thing like right there

855
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. It's quite the obstruction. It's

856
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: quite the obstruction to to to fish movement, right, but

857
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: from the falls to the mouth of that river and

858
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: throughout all of Lake Ontario, which is just like right there,

859
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: it's like a stone's throwaway from Erie. The Laker population

860
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: is crazy, Like I've fished it um a bunch, and

861
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: the number of fish in Ontario and that river is

862
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: just insane. But what really struck me is that I've

863
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: spent a whole lot of time on Erie, just above

864
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: Niagara Falls, um all over the place really, and it

865
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: never dawned on me until I read this that I've

866
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: never caught a lake trout there right, because there they're

867
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: pretty aggressive fish, right, So if you're on the Lower

868
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: Niagara or Ontario, it's like, yeah, you're targeting salmon, but

869
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna get some lakers, you know what I mean.

870
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: Like you're after small mouths, but some lakers throughout the

871
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: day are probably gonna eat that tube. You know, your

872
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: pining steelhead, you're catching lakers. And I've thrown a lot

873
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: of musky lores and drug tubes deep and trolled crawler

874
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: harnesses and RiPP jerk bits all over Lake Erie, and

875
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: this story made me realize, like, wow, I have never

876
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: had a by catch laker they're doing any of that.

877
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: So as a big fan of Lake Trout, this is

878
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: this is really great news and I hope this keeps

879
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: trending in the right direction here. Yeah, that's really interesting.

880
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: I saw this news and I'm really glad you picked

881
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: it up because it felt like, you know, that's you

882
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: know more about those fisheries than I do. You fished

883
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: them a lot more than I have. Yeah, but I

884
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: didn't make the I didn't think about that parallel between

885
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: Ontario and Erie and the difference in those fisheries, because again,

886
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: I just don't know him that well, you take a

887
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: little short highway drive, there's no lake trout and like

888
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: just go right down the road and it's fill you

889
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: with them. But I wonder if you know, as we

890
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: all know, Lake Erie was a biological dead zone in

891
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: the seventies and that never happened to the same extent

892
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: in Ontario, and I wonder if that's the reason for

893
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: the difference in the lake trout population. I don't know,

894
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: but it seems like it might be likely that one,

895
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, we all know about Lake Here in the seventies,

896
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: lak here. He still holds that connotation for some people, like, oh,

897
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: you can't fish. There's no fish there are now, but

898
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: there didn't used to be, Like fifty years ago, there

899
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: weren't any. The thing you remember that was even when

900
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: eries water was real bad, it all ends up in

901
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: Lake Ontario. It flows Lake Ontario. So I mean, I

902
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: know there's been different efforts and programs to keep the

903
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: lake trout healthy on Ontario, but it is. It is

904
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: stark and they all run the Niagara River to spawn

905
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: by the thousands, so there's there's natural reproduction there. So

906
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't think we have the answer.

907
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: It's just needs to needs to dig in on this.

908
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: You talk about lake on Lake Erie and Ontario as

909
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: these separate things, but if you know, if you really

910
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: pay attention, dude, they're like right there, Like it's like

911
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: millimeters on a map that separates them. So no, I

912
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: see it, I see it. I just I also know

913
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: them to be very different lake trout fisheries and I

914
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: don't know why so smart people. I mean, right right now, yeah, exam,

915
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: right now, it's just fry. I'm sure those super Aggara

916
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,959
Speaker 1: Walleye will will kill their share of them and they'll

917
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: have to. I'll have to deal with that. But um,

918
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, this could be the road back to serious

919
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: trophy laker fishing on Lake Erie, which I would not

920
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: be sad about. We'll see what. We'll see what Phil

921
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: was sad about or happy about. See who wins. And

922
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: then after that we're gonna do We're gonna do a

923
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: tackle hacks and and do a super deep dive on

924
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: hook removal, which we've been hitting at this whole time.

925
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: We're gonna get down to the nitty gritty to make

926
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: sure you can pop some of those bars out. Your uncle,

927
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm afraid you're gonna have to get off my river.

928
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: What did you say, my river? Get off my river?

929
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: It's mine. You can tell because I spelled my name

930
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: out with pebbles on the bank there it says Huey

931
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: Lewis's River, No trespassing. And you can see there's a

932
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: crudely designed skull and crossbones. They're on the bottom, so

933
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: you know I mean business. Also, Miles is the winner.

934
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: That's a power. Yeah, I'm getting hats coming from inside

935
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: the city the flood. The first time I ever had

936
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 1: to perform a serious hook removal was my first season

937
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: guiding in Alaska. We were fishing for soak salmon and

938
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: one of the clients snagged a fish right in the flank.

939
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: When the angry ten pound buck took off upstream, the

940
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: two odd shortshank wide gap egg hook popped out of

941
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: its side and came flying right back at my client's face.

942
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: He took it smack in the middle of the soft

943
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: rubbery flesh of his upper lip. I turned to the

944
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 1: other guy and asked, did you pinchers barb Nope? He responded,

945
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: you nope. Ship. I pulled the spool of the heaviest

946
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: monofilament that I had in my boat bag and cut

947
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: off a section. I told the client to relax, that

948
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: this would be relatively painless and that he had nothing

949
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: to worry about. I didn't tell him that I had

950
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: never actually done this before, because I figured he was

951
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: already freaked out enough. Why pilot. As I prepared to

952
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: remove the hook in the way that I had heard

953
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: was supposed to work, I noticed that the client's legs

954
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 1: were starting to buckle, so I suggested that he sit

955
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: down while I performed the procedure. He did. I slipped

956
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: the line around the hook, placed my finger where I

957
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: thought it was supposed to go, and yanked hard. To

958
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 1: my complete surprise, the hook came flying out clean. It

959
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: was as though the lie I had told the client

960
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: had turned into truth, and suddenly I had the confidence

961
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: of a guide who had seen this work dozens of

962
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: times before. As the hook came free, the client went

963
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: into shock. His eyes rolled back into his head, and

964
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 1: he started convulsing. The rest of the group, which consisted

965
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: of his brothers and father, huddled in a tight circle

966
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: around the client to prevent him falling or hurting himself.

967
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: After a few seconds of shuddering and sputtering, the man's

968
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: eyes popped open. He looked around the tight ring of

969
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 1: familiar faces looming over him and asked, who's calling the play.

970
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: From that day on, I was a complete believer in

971
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: the mono loop hook removal method, and I have since

972
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: used it to remove many hooks from many people, myself included.

973
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 1: The idea is to use a section of strong line

974
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: to back the hook and the barb out of the

975
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: same hole that they went into. Here's how it works. First,

976
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: you need heavy monofilament or floral carbon at least forty

977
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: pound test. I do not recommend using braid for this

978
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: cut at least a two foot section of that heavy

979
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: mono and tie a strong loop knot in one end.

980
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 1: I personally like the perfection loop, but you can use

981
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: any loop knot so long as it does not slip

982
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: under tension. Then do your best to isolate the hook,

983
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: cut the hooker lure off the fishing line it's attached to.

984
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: If the hook is on a lure, cut the split

985
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: ring if you can, and get the lure out of

986
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 1: the way of the hook. If that's not possible, tie

987
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: a very large loop knot so that you can work

988
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: it all the way over the lure. You want to

989
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: get that loop of heavy mono as far down the

990
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: bend of the hook as possible. You want to get

991
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: it right up where the hook enters the skin. Once

992
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: you've worked that loop of mono down the shank of

993
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,720
Speaker 1: the hook all the way to the skin, you're ready

994
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: for the critical part. Stay calm and keep the person

995
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: with the hook in them calm. If you can't, like,

996
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: remember it's only hook. I mean, yeah, it's painful, but

997
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: no one's gonna die, so just keep that in mind.

998
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: Wind the tag end of the heavy mono around your

999
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 1: dominant hand enough times that it won't slip no matter

1000
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: how hard you pull. Place the index finger of your

1001
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: other hand on the eye of the hook and hold

1002
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: it steady. This is crucial. Don't move that finger, don't flinch.

1003
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: Don't let that hook shank pull up, or bad things

1004
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: will happen. Tell the person with the hook stuck in

1005
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: them that you're going to count to three. After you

1006
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: count to one, yank as hard as humanly possible on

1007
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: that mono in the opposite direction that the hook entered

1008
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 1: the skin. Couple of things here. Always try to pull

1009
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: when the person isn't expecting it to keep them from flinching.

1010
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 1: Do not give a timid pull. You have to gank

1011
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 1: with everything you've got, and you have to pop that

1012
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: bar about on the first try. Make sure that you

1013
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 1: keep your finger on the eye of the hook to

1014
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: prevent the shank from lifting, or you'll bury the hook

1015
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: point deeper instead of backing it out. This method, it's

1016
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: not difficult and it's not complicated. I think the most

1017
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: important thing to making this work is confidence. If you

1018
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: pull hard enough and keep that shaft from rising up,

1019
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: the hook will come out and it will be surprisingly painless.

1020
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: You can then bask in the praise and glory when

1021
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: the barb leaves flesh and you've saved the fishing day.

1022
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: There are a few caveats that I should add first.

1023
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: Don't try this if the hook is someplace critical, like

1024
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: an eyeball or a vein or a testicle, or if

1025
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: the hook looks like it's wrapped around attendant or embedded

1026
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: in a bone. Be smart and recognize when something is

1027
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: best left to a physician. Second, while this works on

1028
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 1: pretty large hooks, there is a limit to the size barb.

1029
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: I will try to extract myself. The biggest I've done

1030
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: personally is a four ought, and I'm not sure I

1031
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: would go too much bigger than that. Taking a hook deep.

1032
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: It's just part of fishing. It's it's a rite of

1033
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: passage in some ways. If you fish long enough, you

1034
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: will bury one in yourself or someone else. You've You've

1035
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: really only got two options. You can debarb all your

1036
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: hooks lose a lot of fish, or you can learn

1037
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: how to effectively remove barbed hooks from yourself and others.

1038
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: That is a totally legitimate way to take hooks out

1039
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: of people in a pinch, right I acent. I will say, however,

1040
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: that I'm not sure just listening to a podcast segment

1041
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: makes anyone an expert on hook removal. You know, you

1042
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: don't You don't. I thought I did a good job.

1043
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: You don't think that was a sufficient like that that

1044
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: my description was not sufficient? No, I just I just

1045
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: think medical practices in general require more than just a

1046
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: radio edit, Like like I don't want my doctor to

1047
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: tell me they've never actually for in this particular procedure,

1048
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: but like they heard a guy heard a guy describe

1049
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: it once. You know, that doesn't seem like like sufficient

1050
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: like preparation to me. I once ended up right true

1051
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: story with a heavy gauge treble from a tuna popper

1052
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: in me, like like in my side flab, like I

1053
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: rubbed up against the rods that were in the vertical

1054
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: holders on the center console, right, and I did it

1055
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: while I was lunging to the to the to the

1056
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: stern to grab a trolling rod that went off and

1057
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: I like rubbed up against it, pined me in place.

1058
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: Now we're sixty we're sixty five miles off shore, right,

1059
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: And the buddies I was with had never done a

1060
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: line pole. They never had to take a hook out

1061
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: of anyone. So the site of insertion, it was, it

1062
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: was too far behind me, you know what I mean.

1063
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: Like I could reach around and feel it, but I

1064
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: couldn't turn around to a blind because yeah, because I've

1065
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: done it to myself many lots of times. But there

1066
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: was there was no way, right, And and they he

1067
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: didn't feel that my description of what to do was

1068
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: sufficient prep Like I'm saying, like, no, man, like, look,

1069
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: you grab the flab and pull it tight, pull it

1070
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: as taught as possible, and you gotta go one to

1071
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: three and rip it. And like they just were uncomfortable, right,

1072
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't know, so they're like, I don't know,

1073
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: I don't feel right about this. Um. And while I'm

1074
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: sure your little segment there was was more comprehensive than

1075
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: my yelling at them to just wrap the line around

1076
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: the hook and pull, I just still don't think it

1077
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: qualifies as a hook removal certification course. Um. Like, at

1078
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: least watch a YouTube video or two or better yet,

1079
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 1: I've heard that you can you can kind of sort

1080
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: of practice this on oranges. Oranges like thee yeah, yeah, yeah,

1081
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: Like like the skin of an orange is a little

1082
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: like human skin, kind of like how they practice they

1083
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: practice tattoos on pig skin, right, not the same elasticity,

1084
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,919
Speaker 1: but similar density. So you can try putting a few

1085
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: hooks and oranges and practicing at least the basics of

1086
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: this process before you have to actually do it on

1087
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: a squirming, bleeding friend or family member. All right, that

1088
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: that I give you That practice is a good idea,

1089
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: that sounds that seems sound. I will admit that the

1090
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: first time I ever did the line pole was on

1091
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: a real, live human and I had to pretend like, oh,

1092
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: I've totally done this before, don't worry. Uh, And it worked,

1093
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: But it is it is uncomfortable. I think starting with

1094
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: fruit might have been a better choice. But back to that,

1095
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: what happened on the boat, Like did you just get

1096
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:31,959
Speaker 1: were you just stuck pinned to the console? Like what

1097
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: how did that end? Now? So, I mean it was

1098
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: kind of it was kind of stupid. They just they

1099
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: thought the line pole was a bad idea. They refused

1100
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: to do it, and they just felt better about pushing

1101
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: it through, like that's what they knew. And because I

1102
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: couldn't do it to myself. Oh, I just I was like, well,

1103
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: either I'm gonna have a hook and me all day

1104
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: or I don't know, go to the hospital later like

1105
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm not we're not going in the bite is good.

1106
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: Or I'm just gonna have to let him do it.

1107
01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: And it was brutal. I mean it was just in brutal, dude,

1108
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: because it was in such a soft spot of meat

1109
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: that like it took twenty tries for him to put

1110
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 1: enough force to finally pop the hook through. But like

1111
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: we're sixty five off, what choice do I have? You know? Yeah, yeah,

1112
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: that is truly awful. I've never had to push one

1113
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: through or go to the hospital personally, and I hope

1114
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: none of our listeners will after listening to this episode either,

1115
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: So go back, re listen to that tackle hack. Watch

1116
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: some YouTube videos do a few dry runs on poor

1117
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 1: innocent citrus. If you're wondering what kind of hook you

1118
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: should practice pulling out of the fruit bowl tonight while

1119
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: you rewatch b side Fishing, Joe has the perfect suggestion

1120
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: in this week's end of the line, Well that's not

1121
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: loud enough, Burt b ten S. Some of you listening

1122
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: right now just went, yeah, man, you know it, damn skippy.

1123
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: And chances are if you're one of those people that

1124
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: understands what others may interpret as a bingo calling or

1125
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: a secret launch code, you tie your own flies to

1126
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: drill that down even further. I bet you tie your

1127
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: own streamers specifically. Perhaps you're even a hashtag streamer junkie.

1128
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: I mean I am, and I credit none other than

1129
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 1: Brian Wise of fly Fishing the Ozarks, who has been

1130
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: on this show with fueling my early streamer junkiness back

1131
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: in the day, or like eight ten years ago something

1132
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: like that. It was Brian's tying videos on YouTube that

1133
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: opened my eyes to all sorts of streamer patterns I'd

1134
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: never heard, ever seen before, and he often tied them

1135
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: on Gama Katsu B ten s hooks, so I ordered

1136
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: myself a pack in size too and pie Gali. I've

1137
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: just never looked back. Now. I understand there are plenty

1138
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: of great hook options out there. All the kids are

1139
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,959
Speaker 1: digging on the Arax hooks nowadays. You've got your cheese

1140
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: and your fire holes and so on, and they all

1141
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: make fine products. But I just like the B ten

1142
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: s better, and since it's never really been broke, I've

1143
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: never really found a reason to fix it. The BA

1144
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: ten is classified by Gami as a stinger hook, and

1145
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: while some may argue, I call it the best all

1146
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: around big fly hook ever made. I buy Size twos

1147
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: impacts of one D and without a doubt I tie

1148
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: on that particular hook more than any other. Betends have

1149
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: a long shank, but not too long. The point also

1150
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: doesn't extend as far forward as it would on a

1151
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: traditional streamer hook. That point is also angled up, but

1152
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: not too much, just slightly closing the gap just a bit,

1153
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: making it easier, in my opinion, for fish with slightly

1154
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: smaller mouths to still get pinned on the larger flies

1155
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: you tie on this hook. These hooks just have like

1156
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: the perfect anatomy and their killers of course incorporated into

1157
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: a dungeon or a cheech leach, but their use extends

1158
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: far beyond meaty streamers. Beat ends are very strong and

1159
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: they're also very light, making them my go to for

1160
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: small mouth poppers, master splitter mice, and anything else that

1161
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: needs to work on the surface. All gamkatsus are corrosion resistance,

1162
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: So when I need a hook for a false albacore

1163
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: candy or schoolly straper deceiver, guess what it is. It's

1164
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: B ten s size too. I even use them for

1165
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: both in flies, which is saying something because their mouth

1166
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: is hard enough to bend carbide steel, yet I've never

1167
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: had one bend out a B tent. Truthfully, I might

1168
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: go as far as calling the B ten as the

1169
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: greatest all around hook period, well beyond fly fishing, and

1170
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 1: because I kind of buy them in bulk, they kind

1171
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: of find their way into my conventional bags as well.

1172
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 1: They're actually my first choice for nose hooking a fluke

1173
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: or swim bait because that little bit of extra shank

1174
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: length creates I guess what i'd call a sturdy your

1175
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 1: pivot point and to my eye, my plastics wag better

1176
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: than they do on a short shank. They're also great

1177
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: hooks for fishing delicate live baits like peanut bunker, and

1178
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: I've had Mahi mah he's up to twenty pounds do

1179
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: their damnedest to get loose after eating one of those

1180
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: peanut bunker, and they failed. Most importantly, no matter how

1181
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: you use this hook, you can count on it being

1182
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: raised a sharp and I can tell you from experience

1183
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: those needle points don't really roll over. I've honed a

1184
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: few that have dulled, but only after multiple trips, multiple

1185
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: rounds of use, and like way too many connections with

1186
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: rocks and wood. Now, maybe I'm just biased, but I've

1187
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 1: used a lot of hooks, and I swear the b

1188
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: ten as just grabs faster and more often, and when

1189
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: they go in, they go in buttery smooth. And I

1190
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: know this because I've driven about ten of them through

1191
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 1: my thumb while packing bucktail on the shank without a

1192
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: packing tool, and I once had one buried in my

1193
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: heel for a solid twenty minutes before realizing it because

1194
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: it just went in so clean I didn't even feel it.

1195
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: So that's all we have for you in this week's

1196
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 1: Angler e m T Certification course. Remember to always say

1197
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: that you're going to count to three, but pull on one.

1198
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: Never flinch off the shank, don't grab the pike when

1199
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: your guide tells you not to. And oranges provide a

1200
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: perfectly acceptable stand in for human flesh in a pinch,

1201
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: at least according to Joe. Also, I'd say never trust

1202
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: a guy who eats the orange peel garnish out of

1203
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: his cocktail, just saying, if you actually try that orange

1204
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: trick out or know of a better alternative to mimic

1205
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: the human dermists, tell us about it, send an email

1206
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: to Bent at the meat Eater dot com. Also, keep

1207
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: tagging the good stuff with the Dennered Angler and Bent podcast,

1208
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: and if we like what we see, we send you

1209
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: good stuff. You might get some stickers, but listen, please

1210
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 1: don't flood us with disgusting pictures of hook stuck in bodies,

1211
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 1: because we already get plenty of those. It's pretty routine.

1212
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know. We'd much rather see your

1213
01:07:45,080 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: cat or perhaps a nice potted plant. Don't go, don't go,

1214
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: says to my life