Speaker 1: Look out. It's only films to be buried with. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
Speaker 1: is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian and actor, a writer,
Speaker 1: a director, a chalkboard and I love film. As roy
Speaker 1: T Bennett once said, more smiling, less worrying, more compassion,
Speaker 1: less judgment, more mad Max sargus, less not having mad
Speaker 1: Max sargus. Hmm, yes, good point. Every week I invite
Speaker 1: special guest over. I tell them they've died. Then I
Speaker 1: get them to discuss their life through the films that
Speaker 1: meant the most of them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins,
Speaker 1: Mark Frost, Sharon Stone, and even Bed Campbell's. But this
Speaker 1: week it is the Wonderful actor, writer, producer and director
Speaker 1: William H. Macy. Head over to the Patreon at patreon
Speaker 1: dot com Forwards Last Brett Goldstein, where you get an
Speaker 1: extra twenty minutes of chat with William H. We laugh
Speaker 1: a lot, he tells me a secret, We talk about
Speaker 1: beginnings and endings. You get the whole episode, uncut and
Speaker 1: ad free, and does a video. Check it out over
Speaker 1: at Patreon dot com Forward slash Brett Goldstein, So William H.
Speaker 1: Macy can you believe it. He's one of the finest actors.
Speaker 1: You know. You've seen him in Shameless, in Fargo, in
Speaker 1: Boogie Notes, You've seen him in one of my favorite films, Magnolia.
Speaker 1: He is currently in Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes,
Speaker 1: and he's in about a million other masterpieces. We've never
Speaker 1: met before this. We recorded this on zoom a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago and it was a really lovely time. I
Speaker 1: think you're going to love this one. That's everything, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I hope you're all well. So that is it for now.
Speaker 1: I very much hope you enjoy episode three hundred and
Speaker 1: one of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and welcome
Speaker 1: to Films to be Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein,
Speaker 1: and I am joined today by an actor, a writer,
Speaker 1: a director, a producer, a stage legend, a screen legend.
Speaker 1: He's in literally probably ten of at least ten of
Speaker 1: the greatest films of all time. He's one of the
Speaker 1: greatest actors that has ever lived. He's worked with the
Speaker 1: greatest people. He's one of the people, when I've said
Speaker 1: he's doing the podcast most excited about. He's a hero,
Speaker 1: he's a legend. I can't believe he's here. He really is.
Speaker 1: Look at him. Here he is. Please, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: It's the brilliant. It's William H. Macy.
Speaker 2: I think that's enough for to day.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think we did work. Yeah, good to catch up.
Speaker 1: It's very nice to have you, William H. Macy. I've
Speaker 1: got so many things I want to discuss with you.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about David Mmmott. You may not know this,
Speaker 1: of course you won't know this. When I first started
Speaker 1: like properly acting, I did four or five David Mammett plays.
Speaker 1: That was like my first thing. I did Edmund. I
Speaker 1: played Edmund, which you've done many times and as a film,
Speaker 1: and you sort of started with him, and you are
Speaker 1: the originator of a lot of these parts.
Speaker 2: Right, a lot of them. I met Dave at the
Speaker 2: now gone Goddard College up in Plainfield, Vermont, and it
Speaker 2: was a hippie school, so there were no grades, no tests,
Speaker 2: no requirements. As a result, we just did theater all
Speaker 2: day and there were a group of us. Stephen Chapter
Speaker 2: is still one of my dear friends. After college. Dave
Speaker 2: was from Chicago. He said, bully, Steve, you got to
Speaker 2: come to Chicago. I just did Central Perversion in Chicago.
Speaker 2: It's a big we'll do some plays. It will be great.
Speaker 2: So we started doing plays. The first play that we
Speaker 2: did at our new theater at the Saint Klaus Theatre
Speaker 2: was American Buffalo and I played Bobby the Kid. And
Speaker 2: we did a lot of work with Dave and he
Speaker 2: remains a good pal and he's writing really stunning stuff.
Speaker 2: Now he's back to writing plays and they are you
Speaker 2: would love them. You would love them because there is
Speaker 2: not an ounce of exposition, but they tell wopping big stories.
Speaker 1: Cool. That's that good. And then and you developed like
Speaker 1: an acting technique with him, Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yes? This is when we were in New York. New
Speaker 2: York University went to David and said, will you teach
Speaker 2: some classes? And he called me up and he said,
Speaker 2: I got this new idea. They've studied with Sanni Meisner
Speaker 2: at the Neighborhood Playoffs. Did a year there, and he
Speaker 2: sort of expanded on that technique, which he called practical aesthetics,
Speaker 2: and we taught it to this group of NYU students,
Speaker 2: went up to Vermont where we had gone to college,
Speaker 2: and did a summer residency there and that became the
Speaker 2: Atlantic Theater Company, which still exists down on Chelsea. It's
Speaker 2: one of the I think it's a deep premiere off
Speaker 2: Broadway House and practical aesthetics is an extension of the
Speaker 2: Meisner technique, just refined and simplified a bit.
Speaker 1: It is it a technique that you still used? Does
Speaker 1: it work in every second? Does it work on film
Speaker 1: as well as place? Yes?
Speaker 2: I mean when in the classes, the all these steps
Speaker 2: that you go through, and the point being that it
Speaker 2: will become habitual. So yes, the technique has a lot
Speaker 2: to do with the way I act. I don't go
Speaker 2: through the steps anymore because they have indeed become instinctual.
Speaker 2: But it's all about the objective, what does the character
Speaker 2: want and let the emotions go hang effective memory and
Speaker 2: sense memory. It doesn't work, at least it doesn't work
Speaker 2: for me. It's all about what do you want?
Speaker 1: So I was thinking looking at your CV, is that
Speaker 1: what you call it? In Omega? Your resume? You tell me,
Speaker 1: I don't know how much choice you've had in it,
Speaker 1: and how much is random accident? But like you're in
Speaker 1: excellent films, you're in a series of really really excellent films.
Speaker 1: How much of that was choices? How much of it
Speaker 1: these people just came to you, they offered it, Like,
Speaker 1: how much was it making decisions where you chose good
Speaker 1: projects versus this would be the only things that happened
Speaker 1: to be offered.
Speaker 2: It's a great question. A lot of it was luck.
Speaker 2: I happen to smoke a doob and drive up through
Speaker 2: Vermont to Goddard College and decided I wanted to go there.
Speaker 2: Had that not happened, I never would have met Dave,
Speaker 2: who changed, and Stephen Chapter. Both of them changed my life.
Speaker 2: Very few actors get to choose what they're going to do. Basically,
Speaker 2: you wait for an opportunity to come along and you say, yes.
Speaker 2: I have turned down films, but it's very rare. Nowadays,
Speaker 2: I'm a lucky Peluca and I get more films that
Speaker 2: I can do and I get to choose. But this
Speaker 2: is a new thing for me. I had some notions
Speaker 2: that I think held me in good stead. I always
Speaker 2: wanted to do a good film as opposed to the
Speaker 2: great role. I'd rather do a smaller role in a
Speaker 2: great film than the lead in the film that's not
Speaker 2: going to work. People sought me out. It's very flattering.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's wrong with these people? But they
Speaker 2: did and I did everything. I said yes, yes to
Speaker 2: the universe. I thought I should get on the boards
Speaker 2: and stay on the boards as long and as frequently
Speaker 2: as possible. And that's where you learn how to act. Really,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about. That's it's when you're
Speaker 2: up there in the fire and a good, for instance,
Speaker 2: is shameless. I got to do that for over a decade,
Speaker 2: eleven seasons in Boy that I learn a lot about acting.
Speaker 2: I threw away a lot of crap that I thought
Speaker 2: was important. I learned to do my job and relax
Speaker 2: and let other people do their jobs and not worry
Speaker 2: about them. I learned that tomorrow is another day, you know,
Speaker 2: And if you blew the scene, you blew the scene,
Speaker 2: there's going to be another scene. I put down a
Speaker 2: lot of tension and a lot of bungst that wasn't helping.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I was going to ask about saving because
Speaker 1: that's long. That was eleven years of your life. Then, yeah,
Speaker 1: did you love it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I loved it. I got to go to work
Speaker 2: every day, and at first I brought my old habits
Speaker 2: into it, which is struggling with all the scenes and
Speaker 2: wanning rewrites and quizzing everything, and I carried it so heavily,
Speaker 2: but just the fact that we did it for so long,
Speaker 2: I finally calmed down, and boy did my acting improve?
Speaker 2: And boy did people.
Speaker 1: Like me interesting? And I guess he must have been
Speaker 1: a real fucking family. Eleven years of that. How is
Speaker 1: it when that ended? Was it devastating?
Speaker 2: It was time? But it was very, very sad, and
Speaker 2: I do miss them, and they're all doing really well,
Speaker 2: which is great. And I feel that these sort of
Speaker 2: are my airsats kids, So I'm very proud.
Speaker 1: That's nice, man, that's so nice. And is this true?
Speaker 1: I looked on your IMDb? Did you write an episode
Speaker 1: of thirty something? Or is that a mistake on your IMDb?
Speaker 2: No, we did Stephen Chapter, whom I met in those
Speaker 2: original classes with Dave Mammon. He and I started writing
Speaker 2: Movies of the Week and it was a great gig.
Speaker 2: We did it for many, many years. We did a
Speaker 2: lot of TNT and at first he and I would
Speaker 2: write them and he would direct, and then is my
Speaker 2: star shined a little brighter? We wrote them, he directed,
Speaker 2: and I got to star in them, and we did
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, a dozen of them or so, and
Speaker 2: it was its great. One of them calls the Door
Speaker 2: to Door that won a lot of Amys that year.
Speaker 2: But they were all pretty pretty interesting. I was proud
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: That's nice. And now you seem to me, well, you
Speaker 1: tell me, do you love all of this as much
Speaker 1: as you always did? It is exciting to you as
Speaker 1: it always was. Yes, that's great.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, what it comes down
Speaker 2: to for me is that I really love being in
Speaker 2: imaginary circumstances. I love acting. I love it. Everything attendant
Speaker 2: to it is a pain in the ass. But when
Speaker 2: everyone gets quiet and it's my turn to talk and
Speaker 2: the pressure's on, I loved that. I still really love it.
Speaker 2: And it's not unlike an athletic event. I liken it
Speaker 2: to skiing sometimes. Living in Colorado, I ski a lot now,
Speaker 2: and you know, every cell in your body is telling
Speaker 2: you to hug the mountain because you're falling down a mountain.
Speaker 2: But the technique is no, You've got to point your
Speaker 2: skis downhill and throw your weight downhill. As frightening as
Speaker 2: that is, that's the only way to have control. And
Speaker 2: when you're acting, you got to do the same thing.
Speaker 2: You've got to throw yourself off the mountain and just
Speaker 2: play it as it lays. And what happens is real.
Speaker 2: That's what the audience saw, so you better react to
Speaker 2: it in real time. And the pressures of it, I
Speaker 2: dig them. I think maybe I'm a money performer. I
Speaker 2: like that pressure. I mean, you haven't lived until you're
Speaker 2: running around in your nickers and you're supposed to be
Speaker 2: simulating a love scene with someone and there's a bunch
Speaker 2: of teamsters standing there watching you. It takes a lot
Speaker 2: to go, okay, put all that aside and concentrate on
Speaker 2: what you're doing. But it brings me to life. I
Speaker 2: love doing it. And I do know actors who don't
Speaker 2: have a good relationship either with the camera or with
Speaker 2: the audience. They find them to be adversarial. And I
Speaker 2: don't know how you would act with that attitude.
Speaker 1: What does it say about a person you putting it
Speaker 1: like that? And I completely relate to it. By the way,
Speaker 1: this thing of enjoying living in imaginary circumstances, what does
Speaker 1: it say about Does it say any thing about real
Speaker 1: circumstances where you're like, yeah, this is this is not
Speaker 1: for me? Much better when it is made up.
Speaker 2: It's a craft number one, and every once in a while,
Speaker 2: if you're lucky, you can turn it into an art.
Speaker 2: But you do go to work and it's something that
Speaker 2: you do. And I don't find myself getting into a
Speaker 2: character or a story that I'm telling and I get
Speaker 2: stuck in it and I take it home and I
Speaker 2: live with it. I don't do that. And also I
Speaker 2: don't think that helps to try to become the character.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can do that. It's a trick
Speaker 2: we play on the audience. Really, you know. You tell
Speaker 2: them I'm the King of England and put me on
Speaker 2: a throne giving a crown. They say, okay, you're the king.
Speaker 2: I don't have to prove it. I don't have to
Speaker 2: be the king. They believe me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you have a favorite of your film as
Speaker 1: in the ones that you've been in. Is there one
Speaker 1: that's like that's your personal favorite film.
Speaker 2: Not a favorite that's like which of your kids is
Speaker 2: your favorite? Yeah, but in no particular order. I loved
Speaker 2: working with Paul Anderson. Boogie Knights was magnificent. Every time
Speaker 2: I see it, I think it's a stunning work of
Speaker 2: on his part.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: The stuff I've done with Dave American Buffalo on stage.
Speaker 2: I got to play Bobby originally, and then I got
Speaker 2: to play teach over in England and back here. That
Speaker 2: changed my life. One of the films that Stephen and
Speaker 2: I wrote, Door to Door. It was sublime, really, just
Speaker 2: everything worked beautifully, with a beautiful cast and a fabulous
Speaker 2: story to tell. Didn't one of Dave's plays State in Maine.
Speaker 2: I just saw it recently, all pee your pants funny. Fargo,
Speaker 2: of course changed my life. Shameless changed everything. I'm a
Speaker 2: lucky Peluca. I've been in some really good films, sometimes
Speaker 2: in very small parts, but as I said, that's when
Speaker 2: I look for good films.
Speaker 1: Pleasant Ville is a very important film in my life.
Speaker 1: Pleasant Villa Magnolia. I'm putting on your list two of
Speaker 1: my favorite films. All right, w's Mazie. There's something I've
Speaker 1: forgotten to tell you that I should have told you
Speaker 1: up front. I guess I'll say it and then we'll
Speaker 1: just deal with it. You've died, You're dead. You're dead,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. The people know, well you're finding out.
Speaker 1: Everyone else knows. I forgot to tell you, and that's
Speaker 1: the problem. I didn't formed everyone else. Everyone's dealing with it,
Speaker 1: but it's.
Speaker 2: Good to know. I think I'll just keep going away.
Speaker 1: I'm going yea, it suits you, we do very well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm dying a bunch of films.
Speaker 1: How did you die in this? How would you like
Speaker 1: to die? What's your dream death?
Speaker 2: Oh? With my brain intact and in my sleep, painlessly privately, I.
Speaker 1: Think, yes, boy, it's sure.
Speaker 2: The older you get, the more you think about it,
Speaker 2: because it's getting closer. Sixtieth birthday party and Felicity said,
Speaker 2: my wife said, what are you going to do in
Speaker 2: your third act? It took my breath away. And what
Speaker 2: a brilliant question, I know, because third acts are notoriously short.
Speaker 2: And anybody who's anybody who's ever done on a play
Speaker 2: or a movie knows you want to drive for the curtain,
Speaker 2: you know, so pick up the pace. Yeah, but in
Speaker 2: my third act, to answer her, I really like acting.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a director. I've tried it. I
Speaker 2: might do it again, but it's not where my strength lies.
Speaker 2: I just wrote a script, had a great time writing
Speaker 2: it that was new, and I wrote it by myself,
Speaker 2: and that'd be lovely to get at me. There's nothing
Speaker 2: like doing a script that you wrote. You know it
Speaker 2: so well?
Speaker 1: Would you want to act in that? Direct it? Oh?
Speaker 2: By, I'll act in it.
Speaker 1: Also.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a western that would star my daughter Sophia.
Speaker 2: And but again I get killed about halfway through.
Speaker 1: Jesus, what a shame. What a shame?
Speaker 2: Killed again, dead again, dead again.
Speaker 1: By by yourself? What is? What do you think happens
Speaker 1: when you die? Do you think there's enough to life? No?
Speaker 2: No, I think I think you can find heaven right
Speaker 2: here on earth. And I think you can find hell
Speaker 2: right here on earth too. And I think when you die,
Speaker 2: the world needs those parts back to reshape them and
Speaker 2: put someone else here.
Speaker 1: So I like that.
Speaker 2: I want to do it all when I'm alive. I
Speaker 2: don't want to I'm not banking on a second shot
Speaker 2: at this.
Speaker 1: Well, I've got a surprise for you. Despite what you're saying,
Speaker 1: is really beautiful. There is a heaven and you're going
Speaker 1: to it at least for a bit, and it's filled
Speaker 1: with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2: I'm a family guy. Play ukulele. I never have a
Speaker 2: ukulele far away from me because I've always loved music.
Speaker 2: It's soothing to me. I like making things, so like
Speaker 2: my gardener, I like working with my hands. I love
Speaker 2: breaking down a script, figuring out what's going on, trying
Speaker 2: to figure out what the writer had in mind. I
Speaker 2: help my daughter, I help my wife, and they help me.
Speaker 2: We talk about it a lot o my family.
Speaker 1: You know what's in your in your heaven, there's a
Speaker 1: series of workshops. One of them is a wood workshop,
Speaker 1: one of them is a script workshop, one of them
Speaker 1: is a music workshop. And you just move through workshops,
Speaker 1: your family in each of them, whoever you want in
Speaker 1: each one, and you're just making stuff, tinkering with stuff,
Speaker 1: playing music. It's fucking great, to be fair, it's pretty great.
Speaker 2: You make that sound pretty good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I won't worry about it.
Speaker 2: If when I die it's not like that. How am
Speaker 2: I going to get in touch with you?
Speaker 1: Because I'll leave you. I'll leave you my email. We
Speaker 1: can you can just that's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, after my death, if your computer freezes up
Speaker 2: and you can't figure out what the fuck is going
Speaker 2: wrong with.
Speaker 1: It, yeah, it's you to me, it's you for the
Speaker 1: workshop where you're like, this is a ship workshop. Now listen,
Speaker 1: when you get to heaven, everyone's very excited to see you.
Speaker 1: They're huge fans, but they want to talk about your life,
Speaker 1: but they want to talk about it through films. And
Speaker 1: the first thing they ask you is, what is the
Speaker 1: first film you remember seeing William et Macie.
Speaker 2: It's a good'un. When then they'd Gone with the Wind
Speaker 2: they did this. It was a public city stunt, but
Speaker 2: they went all over the country looking for Scarlett O'Hara,
Speaker 2: and my mother was a Mississippi girl, born in Pascogoula, Mississippi.
Speaker 2: We lived in Georgia at the time, and my mother
Speaker 2: actually went to one of those calls to audition for
Speaker 2: Scarlett O'Hara. As I said, it was a public city stunt.
Speaker 2: But when the film came out, my mom said, we're
Speaker 2: going to see it, and we got in our Sunday
Speaker 2: best and we drove into Atlanta to see Gone with
Speaker 2: the Wind. Wow, it was overwhelming. It was pretty big,
Speaker 2: big screen, very loud. How old were you maybe eight
Speaker 2: or nine? I have to check when it was released.
Speaker 2: I was born in fifty so that was something. I've
Speaker 2: seen the film since then. It's a creaker.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got some issues. Did you feel like I
Speaker 1: want to be part of this do you remember thinking that.
Speaker 2: No, I got the bug in high school?
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: I was a frightened kid in high school. I grew
Speaker 2: up in Cumberland, Maryland, and my brother came home from college.
Speaker 2: He'd learned to play a guitar and he was in
Speaker 2: a folks singing group and I lost my mind. I
Speaker 2: just loved it. I said, you got to teach me
Speaker 2: how to play this guitar. And my dad, God bless him,
Speaker 2: he bought me a guitar. My brother taught me this very,
Speaker 2: very sketchy, off color song. I signed up, way out
Speaker 2: of character for me. I signed up to sing that
Speaker 2: song in the talent show at Allegheny High School. And
Speaker 2: the punchline was your papa ain't your papa, but your
Speaker 2: papa don't know? And oh dear God, the whole auditorium
Speaker 2: lost their minds. I got a laugh that was so big,
Speaker 2: and I thought, holy crap. And I spent the rest
Speaker 2: of my life trying to get that laugh.
Speaker 1: Man, I get that interesting. What about being scared? What's
Speaker 1: the film that scared you the most? Do you like
Speaker 1: being scared to make or to see? You haven't done
Speaker 1: that horror? Have you?
Speaker 2: Or have I missed it now, The Exorcist. I was
Speaker 2: driving across country with a Powell. We stopped in Chicago
Speaker 2: because they've been talking about it on the radio, Downtown
Speaker 2: South side of Chicago, and one of those giant theaters.
Speaker 2: It was packed. Oh my god, the whole audience was terrified.
Speaker 2: We were all talking to each other. It scared the
Speaker 2: shit out of us. And I've seen that film many
Speaker 2: times since then, and it should have won a lot
Speaker 2: of awards. It's brilliantly done. Alan Burston was robbed, plus
Speaker 2: a bunch of other people, and that scored. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: it was a seminal film, changed a lot man that
Speaker 2: was scary. When I was a kid, I saw my
Speaker 2: brother took me to see the Thing with James Arness.
Speaker 2: That scared the Jesus out of me too. I guess
Speaker 2: I was twelve or thirte team. I remember they go.
Speaker 2: They finally figured out that the thing is plant based.
Speaker 2: It's terrifying them up in the Arctic Circle and they're
Speaker 2: alone and there's a storm and they can't get out
Speaker 2: and it's slowly killing all of them, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: he cuts himself, right, He catches something and they analyze
Speaker 2: it and they find out he's plant based. He's close
Speaker 2: to spinach. And one of them says, what do you
Speaker 2: do with a six foot, five hundred pound piece of spinach?
Speaker 2: And somebody said, boil it, cook it, and that's how
Speaker 2: they got the thing.
Speaker 1: It's right, it's a fucking big carrot in it. Did
Speaker 1: you so you've never wanted to do a horror Oh,
Speaker 1: you've just never had It's interesting you never wanted to
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: I don't see a lot of horror films because I
Speaker 2: don't like to be frightened. But you know what, the
Speaker 2: clock's ticking and I'd love to try everything. I did
Speaker 2: a sitcom a while back into the column, the Connors.
Speaker 2: I'd never done it, and I know all those guys.
Speaker 2: I want to try every look. I'm I'm down for
Speaker 2: a horror film, you know. I want to be the
Speaker 2: guy that's just like me who goes, there's no supernatural Jesus,
Speaker 2: grow up, there's an excellent well the monsters, you know,
Speaker 2: not to tap me on the shoulder. I want to
Speaker 2: be the guy who says, grow up.
Speaker 1: Well, if anyone's listening and he's making a horror, I
Speaker 1: think that sist you. Now, what about crying? Are you
Speaker 1: a big crer and what's the film that made you cry? Them?
Speaker 2: I am a big crier and it's gotten worse as
Speaker 2: I've gotten older. Oh my daughters mock me because a
Speaker 2: commercial will come on and I'm weeping like a baby,
Speaker 2: and are you crying at a commercial? And I cry?
Speaker 2: And everything else too. You know, crying is a big
Speaker 2: thing in acting. Everyone goes, how do you cry? How
Speaker 2: do you cry? And that's one of the things that
Speaker 2: Dave taught us. One don't cry. It's fun to indulge in,
Speaker 2: but it's boring to watch. Don't cry. Do something about it.
Speaker 2: And that is sage advice because if you put your
Speaker 2: attention on solving the problem rather than crying about it,
Speaker 2: it makes you really emotional and it's really easy to cry,
Speaker 2: and that's the best. When an audience sees a person
Speaker 2: crying to get emotional, it's boring, they're losers. But when
Speaker 2: they cry in frustration because they can't not cry, that's
Speaker 2: when the audience loses their minds. For me, the film
Speaker 2: that got me this is Weird, I had never seen.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful life. I was working in Chicago, I
Speaker 2: was in my forties. I was working in Chicago. It
Speaker 2: was eleven o'clock. I guess it was holiday season. Eleven
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning. It's a Wonderful life came on. Oh.
Speaker 2: I was at a friend's apartment all by myself. I
Speaker 2: was on my hands and knees in front of the couch,
Speaker 2: just weeping, weeping. And you know when Jimmy Stewart's at
Speaker 2: the bar and he's weeping, and they did that extreme
Speaker 2: close up Clarence. I don't want to die, you know,
Speaker 2: help me, Lord, I don't know what's going on. Oh God,
Speaker 2: I was a bleeding mess and I had to go
Speaker 2: shoot that night and it was some I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was a mess when I got to work.
Speaker 1: So when you I was going to ask you about
Speaker 1: that about crying stuff. When in Magnolia, which is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite films, when you're crying at the end
Speaker 1: of it. So for you doing that, you're playing the frustration.
Speaker 1: You're not you're not thinking I have to cry. You're
Speaker 1: playing the of quitz Kit, Denny Smith.
Speaker 2: It's in there. It's in there for all of us.
Speaker 2: And if you can't cry, for all your act yourself.
Speaker 2: If you can't cry, don't worry about the cool thing
Speaker 2: happened to me. Gary Ross did Pleasantville. He directed Pleasantville,
Speaker 2: and I was in that and there's a scene where
Speaker 2: I had to cry. It's in the script because the
Speaker 2: gag of the thing is it's all in black and
Speaker 2: white and when you feel emotions, so it's scripted. You
Speaker 2: know that this tear rolls down and suddenly you see
Speaker 2: my pink skin under it. And I worried about that scene,
Speaker 2: and so I went to Gary and I said, look it,
Speaker 2: I can do it, but I can't do it all day.
Speaker 2: You got to tell me when the money shot is
Speaker 2: and if you have to start with that, you know.
Speaker 2: And he said, okay, okay, it's okay. Well we got
Speaker 2: there to do the scene, which was a long scene,
Speaker 2: and Gary said, let's read it, and I burst into
Speaker 2: tears cutting to the chase. Seven hours later, I'm still
Speaker 2: weeping every time I do the scene. I guess I
Speaker 2: had some issues to get out. Finally Gary's up and
Speaker 2: you know, he's up on a crane somewhere and he's
Speaker 2: going he said, Bill, you're this big and you don't
Speaker 2: have to cry anymore.
Speaker 1: Build it. Oh good, that's nice. What is the film
Speaker 1: that people don't really like it. It's not critically acclaimed,
Speaker 1: but you love it unconditionally.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I I've got that question. I went
Speaker 2: through it, and I can't come up with anything. I
Speaker 2: think I have relatively Catholic tastes.
Speaker 1: If I like it, I'm.
Speaker 2: Pretty sure a lot of people will like it. And
Speaker 2: I flatter myself. I'm really good at reading scripts, and
Speaker 2: there's a trick to it. I try to read the
Speaker 2: script in one sitting, and I try to read it
Speaker 2: in real time. Scripts are notoriously loaded with stage directions,
Speaker 2: and they're nonsense. They're just horseshit. So I skip the
Speaker 2: stage directions and just read the dialogue, and when I
Speaker 2: get lost, I'll go back and see what I'm in
Speaker 2: the stage directions. I need to understand the scene. But
Speaker 2: in that way, I can see the film in my
Speaker 2: mind's eye and about the same time that you'll see
Speaker 2: when the film's finished, about an hour and a half.
Speaker 2: And if you've seen the film in your head, it's
Speaker 2: easy to know which are the good ones and which
Speaker 2: are the bad ones. So to answer your question, there
Speaker 2: are more films that were critically acclaimed that I don't like.
Speaker 2: It's jarring to your artistic integrity. When everyone says it's genius,
Speaker 2: you've got to see it, and you see it and
Speaker 2: you go, I think it's overblown. I think the acting's terrible.
Speaker 2: I don't buy this story that happens to me more
Speaker 2: than the opposite.
Speaker 1: What about a film that you used to love but
Speaker 1: you've watched recently and you've gone, I don't like this
Speaker 1: anymore because maybe you've changed it.
Speaker 2: Yes, but films have changed too, I like probably every
Speaker 2: other father. Both my daughters love films. We kept them
Speaker 2: away from film and TV Felicity and I as long
Speaker 2: as we could so they're readers. And then Sophia fell
Speaker 2: and broke her collar bone. She had to sit on
Speaker 2: the couch. So we said, guess what, here's the world
Speaker 2: of films. But they wanted to know, Pop, what are
Speaker 2: your films? And I went, oh my god, my daughters
Speaker 2: want to know what I like. So I had this
Speaker 2: list of films and most of them disappointed me. You know,
Speaker 2: and it's not because I've changed as much as filmmaking
Speaker 2: has changed. I mean, we used to tell films, tell
Speaker 2: stories at a glacial pace, and now no, I get it,
Speaker 2: I get it, Come on, come on. And then We
Speaker 2: went through that period after MTV when it was all
Speaker 2: quick cuts, and that was a bore too. There was
Speaker 2: a bunch of years there where they'd never finished a scene.
Speaker 2: They were just cut out of them, and I thought,
Speaker 2: come on, that's sloppy writing. Give me the dilemma and
Speaker 2: write your way out of it. But you got to
Speaker 2: keep it going. So a lot of the films that
Speaker 2: I said, wait till you see this Airplane, I said,
Speaker 2: the funniest movie you've ever seen. Well, the funny beds
Speaker 2: are still funny, but you got to sit there and
Speaker 2: wait for him to come along. There were a couple
Speaker 2: of others. There are notable exceptions Doctor Strangelove. I mean
Speaker 2: my kids were ten and twelve when they watched Strangelove
Speaker 2: and I said, this is a fabulous film. By that time,
Speaker 2: I said, I remember it as a fabulous They watched.
Speaker 2: They watched it beginning to end, and so did I.
Speaker 2: And it is a magnificent film, particularly that scene with
Speaker 2: Sterling Hayden where he's saying Jack, Jack, give me the codes, Jack,
Speaker 2: and they're on the couch. It must have been an
Speaker 2: oversized mag on the camera because they don't move and
Speaker 2: it goes on for four minutes with the windows getting
Speaker 2: blasted out, two guys on a couch with no cuts.
Speaker 2: You can't take your eyes off of it.
Speaker 1: That's cool, That's very cool. What is the film that
Speaker 1: means the most to you? Not because the film itself
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily good, but the experience you had around seeing
Speaker 1: it will always make it special to you.
Speaker 2: See Well, I would say the biggest one, and this
Speaker 2: is sort of changing me artistically and the experience of
Speaker 2: seeing it. I went to see The French Connection Gene Hackman,
Speaker 2: and I was still in college at the time, studying
Speaker 2: this Stanislavsky's method with Dave Mammott and a bunch of
Speaker 2: us went to see it and I thought, if I
Speaker 2: could act like Gene Ackman, oh man, I thought, that's
Speaker 2: what I want to do. And we've talked about it
Speaker 2: all night, and one of the things we came up
Speaker 2: with was that as an actor, Gene Hackman don't give
Speaker 2: a shit. He knows exactly what he's going for. He's
Speaker 2: really smart with analysis, he knew what the writer was
Speaker 2: going for, and he doesn't care whether you like him
Speaker 2: or whether you're judging him, whether this is a good moment,
Speaker 2: whether it's a full moment and he didn't give a shit.
Speaker 2: His attention is out there and I couldn't take my
Speaker 2: eyes off of him. One of them and that film
Speaker 2: pulls up. It's a stunning film. I've seen Gene Hackman
Speaker 2: almost everything he's ever done, and I've never seen him
Speaker 2: be bad. I've seen him in terrible movies. I've never
Speaker 2: seen him be bad.
Speaker 1: Did you ever work with him? With him Friedkin? No,
Speaker 1: never did, No, Shane big regret. There's a film critical Markamod.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know him. And he talks
Speaker 1: a lot about William Friedkin. He's like an expert on
Speaker 1: the Exorcist, and he talked about and he'd done lots
Speaker 1: of interviews with William Freakin and apparently Gene Hackman had
Speaker 1: been very difficult to direct on the French Connection because
Speaker 1: he was worried about being liked, I think, and William
Speaker 1: Freedkins sort of beat that out of him. So it's
Speaker 1: very interesting that that wasn't I think there was an
Speaker 1: issue with that that freaking got rid of.
Speaker 2: I love knowing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, that's the thing he liked about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me like Gene Hackman even more because
Speaker 2: he's got feet of clay just like the rest of us.
Speaker 2: And good for Billy freakin. Yeah, Jeane was stuck to work.
Speaker 2: He's a tough guy to work with. I mean, I've
Speaker 2: heard that, but boy, I still wanted to do it.
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of actors out there really rough, especially guys.
Speaker 1: What's that about? I don't like that? Yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you deal with that?
Speaker 2: I think one of the common denominators of the nightmare
Speaker 2: actors is fear, going back to the throwing yourself off
Speaker 2: the mountain analogy. You show up and you're about to
Speaker 2: put your ass on the line, expose yourself, potentially make
Speaker 2: a fool of yourself. You don't know if the director
Speaker 2: knows what he or she is doing. You worked on
Speaker 2: the scene, and the actors who are doing it aren't
Speaker 2: doing it the way you saw it at all. There's
Speaker 2: a lot to be afraid of, and the only answer
Speaker 2: is to throw yourself into the belly of the beast.
Speaker 2: You've got to attack it head on. You've got to
Speaker 2: go say to yourself, I'm frightened, but I'm going to
Speaker 2: do it anyway. That's what I'm getting paid for. And
Speaker 2: I think what a lot of actors do, especially when
Speaker 2: they get successful, they try to mitigate the fear by
Speaker 2: bringing an entourage on. They try to surround themselves with
Speaker 2: people who will make them feel safe. They try to
Speaker 2: get angry about something that they can do something about
Speaker 2: this costume, this hair person, that director. How can I
Speaker 2: do my work with this incompetence around me? And I
Speaker 2: think they just do it because they would rather have
Speaker 2: a problem that they can lick than face the real problem,
Speaker 2: which tess takes courage and faith. And I think maybe
Speaker 2: another thing is that when actors get really, really big,
Speaker 2: and when the biggest elephant in the room is the
Speaker 2: actor who at the end of the day can hire
Speaker 2: and fire the director and for that matter, get the
Speaker 2: producers thrown off the set. When they got that much
Speaker 2: power and bad habits, then they're insufferable.
Speaker 1: Do you have I'm sure you've worked with some of
Speaker 1: these people. Do you have a key to making it
Speaker 1: work for you with people like that.
Speaker 2: I've been a lucky guy. I've been on maybe two
Speaker 2: or three three sour sets, and all the films I've done,
Speaker 2: it's always been pretty good everywhere I've worked. And I
Speaker 2: must say I was a problem actor when I was young.
Speaker 2: I was insufferable because I was frightened and I wanted
Speaker 2: to get it right. And it takes maturity to realize
Speaker 2: you can never get it right. You can only keep
Speaker 2: doing it and do it as fully and as bravely
Speaker 2: as you can, but it'll never be right. That's the
Speaker 2: wrong thing. I've seen it in myself, and i've seen
Speaker 2: it in others. You do a take and it's good,
Speaker 2: and you think, let me go again. I think I
Speaker 2: can do it better, and that's the kiss of that.
Speaker 2: You can't do it better. Maybe you can be more full,
Speaker 2: maybe you can be more simple, but you can't do
Speaker 2: it better. It's the wrong words.
Speaker 1: That's great, that's great. What is the film you must
Speaker 1: relate to?
Speaker 2: Obviously, as an actor, every film I'm not in, I go,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I could have done that. Call my agent.
Speaker 2: I didn't even know this was out there. What's going on?
Speaker 2: I can play thirty yeah, But I, like everyone else,
Speaker 2: I relate to the hero, and I see myself as
Speaker 2: the hero. I guess. Maybe a better way to answer
Speaker 2: your question, what did I really relate to that I
Speaker 2: see myself in is that I have trouble with the
Speaker 2: comic books because there's nothing at stake. And I haven't
Speaker 2: seen a lot of the Marvel movies, but I do
Speaker 2: know that they're taking a chance when they have their
Speaker 2: hero have doubts, and they've done that, and I've heard
Speaker 2: it's worked. But I think, you know, the dragon keeps
Speaker 2: attacking the city, and so you suit up your finest
Speaker 2: warrior to slay the dragon. But he gets strapped through
Speaker 2: and so they have to send in the cobbler. They
Speaker 2: have to send in the last guy who should be
Speaker 2: fighting the dragon. That's the story I want to see. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's the one.
Speaker 1: Completely agree. What is the sexiest film ever made?
Speaker 2: I saw Zepparelli's Romeo and Juliet No. I was almost
Speaker 2: Romeo's age when I saw it, but boy, she was sexy.
Speaker 2: That was really sexy. I love the way they did
Speaker 2: the sex scene in that it was so innocent and
Speaker 2: so it was a bit matter of fact. It's memory serves.
Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot of score in the at that point.
Speaker 1: How old are you? How How old is Romeo? How
Speaker 1: old is he supposed to be? Is he like sixteen?
Speaker 2: They're kids, they're supposed to be fourteen to fifteen. Their
Speaker 2: brats Susan Sarandon. I've seen her in a bunch of films.
Speaker 2: Remember in Atlantic City and Jason the Window. They're Washington, They.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the same.
Speaker 2: I saw Patricia Arquette and Tommy Lee Jones on a
Speaker 2: TV version of Executioner Song.
Speaker 1: Do I have that right?
Speaker 2: Anyway? I marveled at that because it was on television,
Speaker 2: and Patricia Arquette, every time she would look at him,
Speaker 2: they clenched a lot. Every time she would look at him.
Speaker 2: She looked like a woman who was going to explode
Speaker 2: if she didn't get laid really quickly. I've never seen
Speaker 2: anyone look so hot, and it was so great that
Speaker 2: it was on television, so there's nothing that the board
Speaker 2: could say, Oh, that's inappropriate. It was her intention. It
Speaker 2: was genius, and that was one of the hottest things.
Speaker 2: I've often thought that she could be in a room
Speaker 2: with four beautiful women, completely fuck naked, and you see
Speaker 2: through the window a woman in a her braad and
Speaker 2: underwear combing her hair, and that's what you look at. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the mystery of it.
Speaker 1: What is objectively the greatest film of all time. It
Speaker 1: might not be your favorite film, but is the pinnacle
Speaker 1: of cinema for you.
Speaker 2: Man, that's another one I can't answer. I could do
Speaker 2: top five or ten. As I've gotten older, I look
Speaker 2: at the big films and whether you like it or not,
Speaker 2: I'm marvel that they got the thing shot. I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, D Day.
Speaker 1: Or Spotsicus or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or these giant films are so many moving parts,
Speaker 2: and my god, the work that goes into them, like Apes,
Speaker 2: like Planet of the Apes. It's that's such a big film,
Speaker 2: and hats off to the producer and the line producer
Speaker 2: and the director to keep that thing going. I think
Speaker 2: it's an experience of all actors. You do a film, even.
Speaker 1: Sorry, you've just done Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Right,
Speaker 1: this is what you have coming out? Are you? Are
Speaker 1: you an ape in it? Are you a human in it?
Speaker 2: I'm a human?
Speaker 1: Tell me about I love the trilogy. The previous trilogy
Speaker 1: I think is phenomenon. Is it excellent? About? How is
Speaker 1: making that that? Well?
Speaker 2: I've done two of those kind of films. I did
Speaker 2: Jurassic Park, the third one in the trilogy, and I
Speaker 2: did Apes. Jurassic Park I was through the whole thing. Apes.
Speaker 2: I did three or four scenes, but the experience is
Speaker 2: humbling because, as I said, the size of it, and
Speaker 2: you're working with filmmakers, the best and the brightest filmmakers
Speaker 2: doing the best work they've ever done. And I love
Speaker 2: it when the technology doesn't bury the story, that the
Speaker 2: technology is used to tell the story. I've not seen
Speaker 2: Apes yet, but I suspect it's going to be good,
Speaker 2: and when you get down to it, a simple story.
Speaker 2: In this version of Apes, the Simians are ascendant there
Speaker 2: on top, and the humans, because of a pandemic, have
Speaker 2: gone mostly feral, and there are some that were immune
Speaker 2: for it and they're trying to So it's a struggled
Speaker 2: there's a grade line and that there's only room on
Speaker 2: this planet for one major animal and it ain't the Apes,
Speaker 2: so say the humans. But just AI is a big thing,
Speaker 2: and I worry about it. The notion that someone would
Speaker 2: have a computer write a scene is disgusting to me,
Speaker 2: or write the score. I don't know what kind of
Speaker 2: artists could say that, and I certainly don't want to
Speaker 2: work with them. On the other hand, we can use
Speaker 2: technology and AI to our advantage to tell the story
Speaker 2: directly and simply. So the Apes, first of all, these
Speaker 2: guys went to Ape school. They were there for a
Speaker 2: month learning how to do that, and they did it brilliantly.
Speaker 2: And it's hard on their bodies because they're all bent over.
Speaker 2: But they wore these it's like coveralls, and they had
Speaker 2: sensors on them so that the computer could read it.
Speaker 2: And there were dots on their the computer could register that.
Speaker 2: And then they had this sort of a World War
Speaker 2: two thing that the flyers put on in World War two.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's made of canvas and leather, and there was a
Speaker 2: little thing sticking out with a GoPro on the end
Speaker 2: shooting back at their faces. So I'm acting with these guys.
Speaker 2: And they got the hat on and they got the thing,
Speaker 2: and they got dots on their face, but it's their faces,
Speaker 2: and they were doing their voices, but I was acting
Speaker 2: with them. When you looked at the monitor, you saw
Speaker 2: a chimpanzee in real time, in real fuck yeah, in
Speaker 2: real time. So that's what the GoPro was. So if
Speaker 2: they raised their eyebrows, the chimp raised there. If they
Speaker 2: went ha ha ha ha, the chimp with it bottled
Speaker 2: the mind. It really helped the director and everybody else
Speaker 2: to know what this scene is going to look like
Speaker 2: the go pros just for the monitors that you know,
Speaker 2: there's the film that they took in, but that's all artificial.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, fucking amazing, fascinating.
Speaker 2: Jurassic Park was older. So I had a fight with
Speaker 2: a stegosaurus and it was an excavator. It was a
Speaker 2: huge excavator that they dressed up, and the velociraptors were puppets.
Speaker 2: They had a full one. They had one waist up
Speaker 2: and they had one about this big, and it took
Speaker 2: five men and women to run the thing. One of
Speaker 2: them had a helmet on, so when he went like that,
Speaker 2: the raptor did that, and someone was operating all the thing.
Speaker 2: The raptor had a heartbeat right here, so you could
Speaker 2: see it's heart beating, which they would vary depending on
Speaker 2: what was going on. The iris in its eyes would
Speaker 2: open and close. They had an air thing. This raptor
Speaker 2: goes up and snips Tai Leoni and he smells and
Speaker 2: he goes like that and it blew her hairbag. That
Speaker 2: was all on real time. I loved the AI and
Speaker 2: I love all the computer stuff, but man, when you
Speaker 2: can use off the shelf magic in front of people,
Speaker 2: that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: It that's this year right there. So is your greatest film?
Speaker 1: Something like Original Planet of the Eye, So any of
Speaker 1: these big ones.
Speaker 2: I saw the Original with Roddy McDowell and I thought
Speaker 2: it was really well done and interesting. But we're in
Speaker 2: a whole new realm now. It's if you can think it,
Speaker 2: someone can figure out how to make it.
Speaker 1: What is the film you could or have watched? The
Speaker 1: mist Ivan Iver again.
Speaker 2: The Godfather's a lot of Francis Ford, Coppolists, stuff Newman
Speaker 2: and Redford, the Sting Sundance Kid. I've seen them over
Speaker 2: and over. They hold up. They're great every time. During
Speaker 2: the pandemic, we have a big, a big yard sideyard,
Speaker 2: and we hired a company that came in and set
Speaker 2: up a huge screen with big column speakers and you
Speaker 2: could play movies and we taped off the whole yard.
Speaker 2: So each family came and they had their own pot.
Speaker 2: The only thing we shared was the microwave for popcorn.
Speaker 2: And oh my god, some of the neighbors. One of
Speaker 2: the mom's cried, she hadn't been out of her house
Speaker 2: for six weeks. And we had blankets there and everyone
Speaker 2: lay on the grass with pillows and blankets, and we
Speaker 2: watched a bunch of films, but we rescreened Hannah and
Speaker 2: her sisters and I was knocked out by it. What
Speaker 2: a fine film, great acting, great acting, one of what
Speaker 2: he's best.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, I love the end. Yeah, well, a
Speaker 1: lovely thing to have done. That's nice. They loved it.
Speaker 1: What's the worst film you've ever seen?
Speaker 2: Boy? I rarely get through them. Look at I think,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, one thing any story
Speaker 2: has to be is true.
Speaker 1: It's got to be.
Speaker 2: True to the human experience. And I think the test
Speaker 2: is if you put it out there and a couple
Speaker 2: of million people see it, that most of them recognize
Speaker 2: the issue and it moves them. And what offends me
Speaker 2: is films that aren't true. And I guess the most
Speaker 2: obvious example, and I can see the will to live
Speaker 2: just fade from people when I get on this kick.
Speaker 2: But I think Hollywood is doing a lot of damage
Speaker 2: to the world with our portrayal of violence. It's not
Speaker 2: true and it's not a good place to be lying
Speaker 2: when it comes to our portrayal of violence. And it
Speaker 2: used to be they would say, we would say, hey,
Speaker 2: it's violent, you don't like it? You're shooting the messenger.
Speaker 2: We're just reporting the world as we see it. But
Speaker 2: that's not true anymore.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: It offends me and that it's cost me a lot
Speaker 2: of work because well, this Western that I was working
Speaker 2: on when it first started off, there were nine bodies
Speaker 2: on page four, and I lobbied for us to go
Speaker 2: back to the real West and not to westerns. Don't
Speaker 2: imitate films. Let's go back to the real West. And
Speaker 2: the biggest shootout in in the real Old West was
Speaker 2: the shootout at Okay Corral. Four guys. Four guys. They've
Speaker 2: written songs, movies, poems, plays, they've written about it. It
Speaker 2: was the biggest thing. Four guys. Most of the scripts
Speaker 2: you get there's four guys. On the first page. You
Speaker 2: see them downtown, blasting away in New York City. There's
Speaker 2: not a cop to be seen. People get shot four
Speaker 2: times and they give a speech. I've tried to sell
Speaker 2: this a couple of times, but I want to do,
Speaker 2: especially on a series. I want to do a thing
Speaker 2: where you take three episodes to have you fall in
Speaker 2: love with one of the major characters and then shoot him,
Speaker 2: but don't write him off the show, and every week
Speaker 2: you can see what a bullet does to a human body.
Speaker 2: You can see how it wrecks his marriage. You can
Speaker 2: see how he gets infections. You can see how he
Speaker 2: has to learn to walk again or use his hands again.
Speaker 2: You can see the deep, dark depressions. Let's tell the
Speaker 2: truth about it, because I swear to God, you kill
Speaker 2: one person, there's nothing more dramatic than that, you kill
Speaker 2: eighteen people. It's just porn. The only thing you can
Speaker 2: do to make that more dramatic is k eighteen more.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even know what the question was, but
Speaker 2: that's my round. And you do look like you've lost
Speaker 2: a little bit of the will to live.
Speaker 1: No, I'm I'm moved. I moved, and I agree, and
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting things very interesting about the Oka crowd.
Speaker 1: I did not know that twenty four people.
Speaker 2: I heard a story about a cop homicide. Cop in
Speaker 2: an elevator with one other guy looks at him and
Speaker 2: he's most wanted. They were on the fourteenth floor. By
Speaker 2: the time he got to the lobby, they had discharged
Speaker 2: both their weapons, all six shots, five shots, and nobody
Speaker 2: had hit in an elevator.
Speaker 1: I also believe that. Yeah, I once went to I
Speaker 1: have never fired a gun and never any of that.
Speaker 1: A friend said, let's I was in La and they said,
Speaker 1: let's go to a shooting range and we and I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, that's an experience. And I found it
Speaker 1: fucking terrifying. I found it really disturbing, just this. It
Speaker 1: was hot, like it was hard to shoot again, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it doesn't look hard like. It
Speaker 1: was really disturbing the whole just people. I just found
Speaker 1: the hoping really like fuck. I didn't expect it to
Speaker 1: be so such a horrifying What is the film that
Speaker 1: made you laugh the most?
Speaker 2: You know, I remember the specific laughs the aforementioned airplane.
Speaker 2: I just howled. I just saw Dumb and Dummer again.
Speaker 1: Oh lord.
Speaker 2: I lived near Aspen, you know, and when I saw it,
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen it in a long time. And when
Speaker 2: when they dressed up it was supposed to be a joke, well,
Speaker 2: if you live in Aspen, it wasn't a joke. A
Speaker 2: lot of people with the cowboy hats and the fringe
Speaker 2: and everything. I mean, they did Michale's Navy. It was
Speaker 2: a film version. I might be delusional here, anyway, there
Speaker 2: was a laugh in that where they asserted operate on
Speaker 2: a guy they didn't like, and they sewed up some
Speaker 2: things inside of him, and I just laughed and laughed
Speaker 2: and laughed. Oh horrible bosses too. Those guys are freaking geniuses.
Speaker 2: The plot is they're trying to lead the cops to
Speaker 2: the bad guys so that they can get off the hook.
Speaker 2: So the cops they go, Nana Nanda, the cops, and
Speaker 2: they go, it's them and there's this chase and there's
Speaker 2: a training coming, and they go, you can make it,
Speaker 2: you can make it. And so he goes over the
Speaker 2: track and the train goes grow like that and they
Speaker 2: stop and they go yeah, yeah, and then they go, wait,
Speaker 2: don't we want the cops to follow us? So it
Speaker 2: cuts to them all sitting there. Some of them got out.
Speaker 2: The train's going and going and going, and they go,
Speaker 2: here it goes, and they jump back in the car.
Speaker 2: There's the cops waiting, and then they take off again.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I thought that was an original joke.
Speaker 2: I laughed and laughed and laughed. God, I love to
Speaker 2: laugh at.
Speaker 1: William Kee. Macie. You have been a pleasure and a delight.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing this. However, when you were very
Speaker 1: very very old, and you privately and painlessly died in
Speaker 1: your sleep, as I heard about, through fences and went
Speaker 1: through your house and trampled you to death in your sleep.
Speaker 1: And you didn't even notice, you were fast asleep. And
Speaker 1: I was walking along with a coffin, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm like, And I'm like, where's with you? Mate to
Speaker 1: Macy and your family go oh, I think he got
Speaker 1: trampled to death by Elk while he was asleep, privately
Speaker 1: and painlessly. And I go all right, and I'm seeing
Speaker 1: it's a mess, and I go, oh God, We've got
Speaker 1: to get all this in the coffin. And we're having
Speaker 1: to dig up some of the land and get you
Speaker 1: in there, chop you up into pieces so you fit
Speaker 1: in the coffin. Coffin is absolutely rammed. It's only enough
Speaker 1: room in this coffin for me to slide one DVD
Speaker 1: into the side for you to take across to the
Speaker 1: other side. And on the other side, it's movie night
Speaker 1: every night. What film are you taking to show the
Speaker 1: people of heaven and all your workshops when it is
Speaker 1: your movie night? Will you make mace for.
Speaker 2: There's a possibility you eat therapy. I'm just saying, okay,
Speaker 2: the film would be Are you ready? Because this is
Speaker 2: the kind of heaven I want to go to? Debbie
Speaker 2: does Dallas's genius. That is a right if there's only
Speaker 2: room for one in the coffin. Debbie does Stallas. It
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be the Blu ray.
Speaker 1: It could be on.
Speaker 2: Videotape, but I'd prefer a CD, don't. I don't know
Speaker 2: what format they haven't haven't.
Speaker 1: But we'll figure it out. Whatever is your favor.
Speaker 2: Debbie does Dallas. You know d's are funny, and Debbie
Speaker 2: does Dallas has a lot of d C.
Speaker 1: People are gonna be very excited to see that. Really
Speaker 1: wapace you a bit of delight. Is there anything you
Speaker 1: would like to tell people to look out for coming
Speaker 1: soon starring you, written by you, directed by you.
Speaker 2: No in the can. I have planeted the Apes. I
Speaker 2: just did Ricky Stinicky and that's selling pretty well on
Speaker 2: blue or something that's pretty funny. And I did a
Speaker 2: film called on Fire which is coming out just soonish,
Speaker 2: very moving film, might be might be good, have not
Speaker 2: seen it. And I got a bunch of films that
Speaker 2: are circling and maybe I'll get lucky and get to
Speaker 2: make another one.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Thank you man, Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 2: And this was a great interview. I love this, love
Speaker 2: your questions, I love your style. You could do this professionally.
Speaker 1: Shut up.
Speaker 2: I'm serious. I'm serious man.
Speaker 1: Man, it was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. I'm going to stop the recording now,
Speaker 1: have a wonderful death, all right.
Speaker 2: Take care.
Speaker 1: So that was episode three hundred and one. Head over
Speaker 1: to the Patreon at patreon dot com. Forward slash pret
Speaker 1: Golsteing for the extra twenty minutes of chat, secret and
Speaker 1: video with William H. Go to Apple Podcasts. Give us
Speaker 1: a five star rating. But right about the film that
Speaker 1: means the most of you and why. It's a lovely
Speaker 1: thing to read and it really helps numbers. And my
Speaker 1: neighbor Marian loves it. It always makes her cry. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much to William H for doing this and
Speaker 1: for giving me his time. Thanks to Scribiu's Pip and
Speaker 1: the Distraction Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it.
Speaker 1: Thanks to iHeartMedia and Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network
Speaker 1: for hosting it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics
Speaker 1: and at least load them for the photography. Come and
Speaker 1: join me next week. Oh, we've got a very special
Speaker 1: episode for you next week, when you've been waiting for
Speaker 1: nearly a lot of months. But I will say no more.
Speaker 1: That is it for now. In the meantime, have a
Speaker 1: lovely week, and please, now more than ever, be excellent
Speaker 1: to each other.