1
00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's

2
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,240
Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

3
00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,280
Speaker 2: Okay, it's the month of Love and we've been talking

4
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 2: a lot about love and relationships and sex and all

5
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,360
Speaker 2: the things we miss in our society as far as

6
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,760
Speaker 2: how to do it, and a lot of the conversation

7
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,919
Speaker 2: and relationships these days tends to be around attachment style.

8
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 2: So I have had a couple people on the podcast

9
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 2: that talk about anxious attachment, but I've had so many

10
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 2: requests from you guys wanting to know more about avoidant

11
00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 2: attachment style. So Coach Ryan Holly, relationship and dating expert,

12
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 2: it's here to talk with us about that today.

13
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 3: Hi, Coach Ryan, Hey, how you doing.

14
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,239
Speaker 2: I love I refer to you as my friends. I'm

15
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,520
Speaker 2: like Coach Ryan said X, Y and Z all the time.

16
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 2: You're like a new part of my friend circles, conversation.

17
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 4: Happy to be so well.

18
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 2: The reason I was so drawn to your work is

19
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 2: because you do these videos on well, I've seen them

20
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 2: on Instagram. I know they're on TikTok as well well.

21
00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 2: But they state the basics and also kind of the

22
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 2: intricacies of attachment style in a way that is so

23
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 2: digestible to me and doesn't like overwhelm me. It's it

24
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 2: just makes it easier to understand. And so I messaged

25
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 2: you and I was like, are you a recovering avoidant?

26
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 2: Like how do you know so much about avoidant attachment?

27
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about the work that

28
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 2: you're doing with your clients and just how you're getting

29
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 2: into like so much talk about avoidant attachment.

30
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I do specialize focus on attachment when

31
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 4: it comes to relationships and dating. And no, I'm not

32
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,240
Speaker 4: a recovering avoidant. I have just had experiences with them

33
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 4: in my life and you know, long long healed from

34
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,560
Speaker 4: that stuff, but I generated a fascination with it. Ended up,

35
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 4: you know, pursuing this after doing tons of research and

36
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 4: hiring a licensed psychotherapist as a you know, a coach

37
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 4: and mentor to myself, ended up, you know, going down

38
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 4: this route and becoming a relationship and dating coach myself.

39
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 4: And since attachment is such an important part of relationships,

40
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,639
Speaker 4: it really help understanding. It really helps give you a roadmap,

41
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 4: a framework of understanding what is and understanding what's your

42
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 4: own stuff, what is from the other person, what motivates

43
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 4: people to behave the way they do. Where does it

44
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 4: come from? It helps you navigate and understand a relationship

45
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 4: as well as your your own life, because when people

46
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 4: don't have that roadmap, they tend to often engage in repetitive,

47
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,799
Speaker 4: maladaptive behaviors, things that are actually harming you when you're

48
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 4: when you're really trying to you know, forward, forward with

49
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 4: a healthy relationship. So yeah, understanding attachment really is a

50
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 4: really key part to becoming a healthier person yourself and

51
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,000
Speaker 4: maintaining a healthy relationship. So that's that's why it's been

52
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 4: such a hot topic these days.

53
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,400
Speaker 2: Well, I love that you just mentioned. The reason that

54
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 2: people should look at this stuff is because you can

55
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,680
Speaker 2: find yourself in these perpetual cycles of just the same

56
00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,920
Speaker 2: behavior and it's like you're doing a different relationship with

57
00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 2: a different person, but it looks the exact same. So

58
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 2: can you kind of explain, like, what is an attachment style?

59
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 3: Do we all have them?

60
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 4: Everybody has one? Okay, now there are really three main

61
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 4: attachment styles. Well it's actually two main ones. Let me explain.

62
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 4: So they're secure, secure base are people that you know,

63
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 4: everybody has their insecurities, don't misunderstand everybody on earth has insecurities.

64
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 4: But people that are secure based, they have the skills

65
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 4: to self regulate. They have the skills to manage relationships

66
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,640
Speaker 4: in a responsive way, not a reactive way, meaning they're

67
00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 4: using their logical brain to handle situations, not so much

68
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 4: your emotional brain. They're not letting the emotions control them.

69
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 4: People that are insecurely attached. Now, insecurely attached is the

70
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 4: other main one, but there's really two. There's avoidant and

71
00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 4: anxious attachment that are within the insecure spect Now, attachment

72
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 4: it comes from childhood, is learned from childhood. It is

73
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 4: a learned behavior. It is not who you are as

74
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 4: a person. Like any learned behavior, it can be unlearned.

75
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 4: As a child, you don't have much control over your life.

76
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 4: Your parents tell you when you can eat, your parents

77
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,599
Speaker 4: tell you when you're going to school, what you're wearing.

78
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,200
Speaker 4: So the one thing that you do have the ability

79
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 4: to do is to manage your interaction and your relationship

80
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 4: with your parents and do it in a way that

81
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,600
Speaker 4: protects you as a child from whatever is going on.

82
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 4: And you're born with your temperament. Everybody's born with that,

83
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 4: So you take your temperament, your environment, and that's where

84
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 4: attachment is learned. So people that have childhoods where they

85
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 4: may have been chaotic parents were not emotionally available, there

86
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,880
Speaker 4: could have been trauma. Maybe not trauma, maybe just emotional distance.

87
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,240
Speaker 4: That can create someone to either go down anxious or

88
00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,919
Speaker 4: an avoidant route, and the person will help and whether

89
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,160
Speaker 4: they gravitate towards anxiety, anxiousness or avoidance.

90
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 2: So your personality dictates that it helps you.

91
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, it's not the only factor. Your environment plays

92
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 4: a role, but your personality the way.

93
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,000
Speaker 2: You respond to your environment. Okay, that makes sense to me. Okay,

94
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,599
Speaker 2: so you're in your childhood, all these things are happening,

95
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 2: and then because of whatever effect it has on you, you

96
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 2: begin to respond to people in relationships in this certain

97
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 2: type of attachment.

98
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 4: Style you do. And your attachment style really is a

99
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 4: reactive behavior. Yeah, you're not really thinking about it logically.

100
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 4: You feel an emotional stimulus and then you do a

101
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 4: behavior just based on the emotion. And that is what

102
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 4: protected you as a kid. But as an adult, if

103
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 4: it's insecure, that is, it can lead to harmful behaviors

104
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 4: that hurt yourself, hurt your relationships. And you can find

105
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,839
Speaker 4: yourself in the cycle that you don't know why, but

106
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 4: it just perpetuates. Having an understanding of attachment really helps

107
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,039
Speaker 4: you open your eyes and really see what's going on

108
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 4: within yourself and others and make better informed decisions and

109
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 4: be able to better navigate a relationship.

110
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

111
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 2: Well, I love the point you made too, because I

112
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 2: have had a friend, a couple of friends actually going

113
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 2: through certain things and they're like, I know, this is

114
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 2: just like my anxious attachment, and I'm like, no, anyone

115
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,720
Speaker 2: in that situation would feel anxious, Like just because you're

116
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,559
Speaker 2: secure doesn't mean it takes away normal human emotion, right,

117
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 2: But you're explaining it in such a good way to

118
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 2: where you say, when you know the attachment style is

119
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 2: activated is because it's so reactive, Like you can't regulate yourself,

120
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 2: you can't calm yourself down.

121
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 4: Yes, both anxious people and avoidance when they have the

122
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 4: emotional trigger, they react right, act them different ways to

123
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 4: the same anxiety. Because keep in mind, anxiety is at

124
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 4: the core of insecure attachment, whether it's a or anxious.

125
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 4: So people that are avoidant their natural tendency on how

126
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 4: to deal and cope with emotional and relationship stress is

127
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 4: to not deal with it, to dodge, push it away.

128
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 4: They don't like to face their feelings, they don't like

129
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 4: to face their fears, and they tend to shut down

130
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 4: and run away from confrontation. Then they tend to when

131
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 4: they feel their fears triggered, they tend to shut down

132
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 4: and run away. In general, their whole method of coping

133
00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 4: is to not cope essentially, But you know, running away

134
00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,200
Speaker 4: from a problem in life tends to not make it

135
00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 4: go away. If anything, it can get bigger and bigger

136
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 4: and bigger. So a reaction would be, let's say a

137
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 4: typical provoking emotional trigger could be that the relationship is

138
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,840
Speaker 4: going well and because of their insecurities, feeling like they're

139
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,960
Speaker 4: not good enough for a healthy partner and avoidance and

140
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 4: reaction is they feel anxiety because they feel like ultimately

141
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 4: this person's going to figure out I'm not good enough.

142
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,560
Speaker 4: They're going to abandon me, They're going to reject me.

143
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,640
Speaker 4: So the reaction to that feeling is to shut down,

144
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 4: pull away, and possibly even end the relationship as a

145
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 4: way to protect themselves from the inevitable abandonment.

146
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,800
Speaker 2: So even when the relationship of going well, though, because

147
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 2: that seems so counterintuitive.

148
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,640
Speaker 4: The better the relationship is, the more they run from it.

149
00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 4: The severe avoidance that is because they feel unsafe and

150
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 4: healthy relationships and they feel very safe in toxic relationships.

151
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 4: It's not that they consciously think to themselves that they

152
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 4: want a toxic relationship, but they do gravitate towards them,

153
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,600
Speaker 4: and that's because the deep down core wounds that they

154
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 4: have from childhood. Typically an avoidant did not receive a

155
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,320
Speaker 4: lot of love and affection from parents, that they feel

156
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,360
Speaker 4: like they're unlovable and because they didn't get love as

157
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 4: a child, not in the way that they needed, so

158
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,199
Speaker 4: they carry that through to adulthood feeling less than not worthy.

159
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 4: So when a healthy partner comes along, they feel like

160
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,320
Speaker 4: they're not worthy of this, not worthy of being treated

161
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 4: that well. And keep in mind, the avoidant, the way

162
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,679
Speaker 4: that they operate is to put a castle wall around

163
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 4: their around their heart. They don't let anybody. They're what

164
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 4: you call emotionally unavailable people. Now, they can seem like

165
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:08,920
Speaker 4: they are at the beginning, but at the end, they

166
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 4: really aren't. Now with a toxic partner, a toxic partner

167
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 4: is generally somebody who is emotionally unavailable themselves. So the

168
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 4: avoidant does not feel pressure to be emotionally available for

169
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 4: a partner that is also emotionally unavailable. They don't feel

170
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,079
Speaker 4: pressure to be vulnerable for somebody who is not vulnerable

171
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,120
Speaker 4: with them. That makes them feel safe. Plus, the toxic

172
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,079
Speaker 4: partner is nothing all that special, and the avoidant doesn't

173
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 4: have the fear of abandonment from somebody that's not that special. Now,

174
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 4: with a healthy partner, a healthy partner is emotionally available,

175
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,439
Speaker 4: a healthy partner is also emotionally vulnerable, and the avoidant

176
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 4: feels an unspoken pressure to be emotionally available and vulnerable

177
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 4: with the toxic I mean with the healthy partner, and

178
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 4: that makes them feel unsafe. So subconsciously, deep down, in

179
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 4: a healthy relationship, avoidants feel emotionally unsafe, and in the

180
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 4: toxic relationship, they feel quite comfortable and safe. So that's

181
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 4: why you'll see many people that are severely avoidant. They

182
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 4: will refuse to commit or put a label on a

183
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 4: relationshiship with a healthy partner, But then they can jump

184
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 4: into a toxic partner relationship with like a narcissist or

185
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 4: borderline or something like that, and they can immediately commit.

186
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,600
Speaker 2: They can immediately commit Sorry, I just love that, just

187
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:19,199
Speaker 2: like threw me.

188
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 4: Oh.

189
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 3: I have so many questions.

190
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 4: Because the person's toxic and it makes them feel safe.

191
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 2: So then they're safe because it's the familiar. I also like,

192
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,719
Speaker 2: I'm curious if if they were in a relationship, if

193
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,280
Speaker 2: someone has an avoidant attachment or an unhealed avoidant attachment.

194
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 2: Let's say, and they're meeting someone secure, they're in this relationship,

195
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 2: they're going back and forth. Is it common then, because

196
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,840
Speaker 2: the secure partners wanting a healthy relationship for them to

197
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 2: kind of sabotage the relationship to make it.

198
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 4: Toxic, not necessarily sabotage to make it toxic. What they'll

199
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 4: do is they'll just abruptly end it out of nowhere.

200
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 3: There's gone, it's gone.

201
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,000
Speaker 4: Like everything seems fine. It's an extent that honeymoon phase.

202
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 4: The secure partner feels like they have met their their

203
00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 4: their match, their person.

204
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

205
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 4: And then one day and usually after a significant event

206
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,679
Speaker 4: like you know, you went on a long vacation together

207
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 4: that went well, or you just met each other's families,

208
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,320
Speaker 4: and one day, out of the blue, the avoidance sends

209
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,600
Speaker 4: a text, I can't give you what you need. You know,

210
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 4: I'm not ready for a relationship, and that's it, and

211
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,960
Speaker 4: they give you no other answer than that they run away,

212
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 4: they cowardly lock. That's it. They're gone.

213
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 2: And so that's why the person on the other side

214
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 2: of that is like, wait, what, like it's just blindsided.

215
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

216
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,720
Speaker 2: So, I think the interesting thing about attachment and the

217
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 2: way that we're seeing it play out on social media

218
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 2: is often it's kind of the avoidant is the villainized person,

219
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 2: and then the anxious side is not necessarily talked about

220
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 2: that way. I mean, I think both are starting to

221
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 2: be talked about a little differently where it's like, no,

222
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 2: both of these are not healthy in a relationship. But

223
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 2: I do feel like the avoidant gets a little more

224
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 2: villain and I'm assuming it's because the painful behavior like

225
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 2: just up and leaving a normal relationship or any like

226
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,959
Speaker 2: just kind of what the nature of their attachment style

227
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,840
Speaker 2: playing out looks like. Is that true or why is

228
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 2: that that the avoidant gets so villainized.

229
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,839
Speaker 4: The avoidant gets villainized. Yes, that's true. And now keep

230
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 4: in mind both severely anxious and severely avoidant attachments are

231
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 4: toxic for relationships. There's different issues that they cause. The

232
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,959
Speaker 4: reason the avoidant gets villainized. There is a couple of

233
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 4: reasons for it. Okay, they're the ones that abruptly end

234
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 4: a relationship that seems good. The anxious person doesn't do that.

235
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 4: That is the avoidant that does the discard, as it's called,

236
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 4: because when avoidances break up, they typically don't break up

237
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,319
Speaker 4: with you. They discard you, Andy, It's called the discard

238
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 4: is because it is you didn't see it coming. It's unilateral,

239
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,079
Speaker 4: there were no warning signs, and you were denied a

240
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 4: voice and that whatsoever. And often they just ghost to you. Yeah,

241
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 4: and every thing seems wonderful. You're having plans to maybe

242
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,560
Speaker 4: even get married, and all of a sudden on they

243
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,959
Speaker 4: don't even text you or disappeared like they like you

244
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 4: never existed. So the abrupt, traumatic nature of the way

245
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 4: they end it is largely why they get villainized. And

246
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 4: also they don't give closure because keep in mind, people

247
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 4: that are severely avoidant, self reflection is kryptonite to these

248
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 4: people because they spend a lifetime dodging this stuff. They

249
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 4: don't want to face their feelings, their fears. Because when

250
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 4: you self reflect, you have to face your emotions, you

251
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,760
Speaker 4: have to take ownership of your behaviors. You have to

252
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 4: take accountability, and that's painful for an avoidant to do

253
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,960
Speaker 4: because their method of dealing with pain is to avoid it,

254
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 4: so they don't self reflect. And because they don't self reflect,

255
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 4: it's very difficult for an avoidant person to grow emotionally.

256
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,559
Speaker 4: They can do it, but they have to force themselves

257
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,200
Speaker 4: to self reflect in a way they never have. Also,

258
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 4: because they don't self reflect, they have a very difficult

259
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 4: time expressing their feelings because they feel it, but they

260
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 4: don't know how to talk about it since they don't

261
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,679
Speaker 4: have a process to think about their feelings. As an

262
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 4: anxious person can be very smothering in a relationship, which

263
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,320
Speaker 4: can be very difficult, but an anxious person tends to

264
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,560
Speaker 4: over self reflect. An anxious person has an easier time

265
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 4: healing and becoming more secure than an avoidant person does,

266
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 4: and that's because the anxious person is willing to self

267
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 4: reflect and the avoidant typically is not.

268
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 3: Okay, that makes so much sense.

269
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 2: It is hard because it's like obviously up and leaving

270
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 2: like a discard, like you say, would be very painful.

271
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 2: But the word that keeps coming to my mind is

272
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 2: also it just feels dismissive. And like the way that

273
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 2: that would be if you're in a relationship, feels like, okay, wait,

274
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 2: we were just saying we love each other or we

275
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 2: care about each other, obviously we're in a relationship, and

276
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 2: then you just are gone like that, or you shut

277
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 2: down or you whatever, And so I would imagine it's

278
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,200
Speaker 2: just like a super dismissive feeling, which is where people

279
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 2: are just getting really angry and obviously villainizing the avoidant.

280
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 4: And that's why, you know, there's two types of avoidance,

281
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 4: and one of them, the primary one is a dismissive avoidant.

282
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 3: What is that mean?

283
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,600
Speaker 4: So dismissive avoidance are really essentially pure, pure avoidance. They

284
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,400
Speaker 4: their coping mechanism is to avoid and dismiss the feelings

285
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,240
Speaker 4: of the other person. Okay, Now, the other kind of

286
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 4: avoidant is a fearful avoidant, which is also known as

287
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 4: an anxious avoidant or a covert avoidant, multiple names for it.

288
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 4: That is an avoidant that also has some anxious tendencies too.

289
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,479
Speaker 4: It's actually really disorganized attachment. So early on in a relationship,

290
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 4: the fearful avoidant will come across like an anxious attacher.

291
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 4: They may seem clingy, they may seem needy, but as

292
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,520
Speaker 4: the relationship progresses, the anxious switch goes off and the

293
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,200
Speaker 4: avoidance switch goes on, and then they just essentially become

294
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 4: a dismissive avoidant, which can really blindside someone because they

295
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 4: might have think they actually found somebody who's anxious, non

296
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 4: avoidant and that's work within a relationship, and lo and

297
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 4: behold are the horror they find out. Nope, it's just

298
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 4: an avoidant.

299
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah something else.

300
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, fearful avoidance have a little bit of a different

301
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 4: type of childhood than a dismissive avoidant. Dismissive she has

302
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 4: a childhood with their parents are just emotionally unavailable. Just

303
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 4: a fearful avoidant will typically have a childhood where the

304
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 4: parents are emotionally unavailable and are disregulated, where their parents

305
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 4: are kind of explosive, a little bit unhinged, So that

306
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 4: can create the anxiety as well as the emotional abandonment.

307
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,160
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the one we hear about. That's called

308
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: you said disorganized sometimes too, yes, because you're going back

309
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 2: and forth and back and forth.

310
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 3: That actually leaves me.

311
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: A friend of mine who actually requested that I have

312
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 2: you on she said, yeah, I'm just I get so

313
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 2: confused because I don't know how to identify which one

314
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: I am, Like, I know that something is wrong in

315
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 2: my dating life, like I keeps she saying what we

316
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 2: were saying about, she keeps repeating the same patterns, But

317
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 2: she said, I just feel confused, Like sometimes I resonate

318
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 2: as anxious and sometimes I resonate with the avoidant piece.

319
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 2: And so maybe it's something like that, like what you're

320
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 2: talking about, because explain to me how it can start

321
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 2: as anxiousness.

322
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 4: Well, the anxious attachment. You know, you learn from a

323
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 4: childhood that you are responsible for other people's feelings and emotions,

324
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 4: that you take on personal responsibility for it, and usually

325
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,560
Speaker 4: grew up in a more chaotic environment. And it's the

326
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 4: people pleaser. You know, you feel like you're responsible for

327
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 4: other people's feelings, but your own feelings, if you express them,

328
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 4: you're being selfish, you're being you know, you're being bad.

329
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,480
Speaker 4: So from the chaotic part of their environment that that

330
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 4: anxiousness will will come to light. And usually in the

331
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 4: beginning of a relationship, Well that's when you want to

332
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,680
Speaker 4: get the person to like you. You want the validation.

333
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 4: So that's why the anxiousness is triggered because it's new,

334
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,640
Speaker 4: it's fresh, and everybody likes to get validated. Everybody likes yeah.

335
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 4: So that's that triggers that anxiety within the fearful avoidant

336
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 4: early on. And what happens is, though, as the relationship

337
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 4: progresses and becomes more real, it's no longer just a fantasy,

338
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 4: it's no longer just a romance novel. As it becomes real,

339
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 4: that's when the avoidant fears come in. Because this person

340
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,239
Speaker 4: feels unlovable, they feel unworthy. That stuff gets triggered and

341
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 4: then they just turn into a dismissive avoidant essentially, and

342
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 4: they do the discard and all that in the same way.

343
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,159
Speaker 2: So they okay, So they are experiencing anxiety though.

344
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 4: Well, actually even dismissive avoidance do absolutely okay. Both anxiously

345
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 4: attached and dismissive avoidance they feel anxiety. The difference is

346
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 4: how the person reacts to their anxiety. An anxious attachment

347
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 4: behaves in a very anxious way, tries to control the situation,

348
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 4: tries to manage it, tries to really sink their claws

349
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 4: into it, whereas a dismissive avoidance they feel the same

350
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,439
Speaker 4: amount of anxiety, but their reaction is to try to

351
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,959
Speaker 4: suppress it, to try to run from it, to not

352
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 4: face the problem.

353
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so there's anxiety happening on both sides. It's just

354
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: the reaction that makes sense. Yes, So I know a

355
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 2: lot of people feel like you said earlier, Even anxious,

356
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 2: anxious attached people tend to have an easier time healing

357
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 2: towards a more secure attachment, which is something I resonate

358
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,880
Speaker 2: with in my life and I've never fully understood why.

359
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 2: Like the avoidant attachment partners that I've dated in the

360
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 2: past seem to really not want to do any sort

361
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 2: of self reflection or whatever.

362
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 3: So that's a part of it.

363
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 2: But they can avoidant attachments then heal and become secure.

364
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 2: Is that possible if they're not willing to self reflect?

365
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 4: It is possible. Now. While they're not willing to self reflect,

366
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 4: obviously some are and they can heal. So what it

367
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,119
Speaker 4: really usually takes for an avoidant to get to the

368
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 4: point where they are willing to self reflect, where they

369
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 4: are willing to make the change and commit to it,

370
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 4: they usually have to hit rock bottom. Now rock bottom

371
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that they lose their house or job or

372
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 4: anything of the sort, but what it can mean is

373
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 4: they can because of their behaviors, Because of their avoidant behaviors,

374
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 4: they could potentially lose or actually lose somebody they really

375
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,919
Speaker 4: did love and care about, somebody they lost somebody in

376
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 4: life that deep down they didn't want to lose because

377
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 4: of their own behavior, and that pain can become so

378
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 4: great that they say, I don't want to go through

379
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 4: this ever again. I'll do whatever it takes. And then

380
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 4: they start to actually self reflect and look within. Can

381
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 4: they do it?

382
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 3: Sure?

383
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 4: Actually happens more often than people think. But they have

384
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 4: to be the ones to want it. It has to

385
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 4: come from them. If you're the partner of the avoidant,

386
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 4: whether you're secure or anxious, no matter how much you

387
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 4: beg and plead, if they're not willing to do it,

388
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 4: if they don't want it badly, they won't do it.

389
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 4: But they want it badly, they can heal and become secure.

390
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 4: Absolutely they can't.

391
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 2: But it actually a lot of times if you're trying

392
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: to push someone to get help. I mean this is

393
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: even just in general in life. It's like whether it

394
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 2: with addiction or attachment style or whatever, it's like it

395
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 2: does have to be the person's decision. Because I know too.

396
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: There have been times where I've experienced where I was

397
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: really pushing it, but it almost made it worse for

398
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 2: my partner, like they didn't want to do it specifically

399
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 2: because I was pushing it.

400
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

401
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you're one hundred percent right, And often people's response.

402
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 4: Keep in mind insecure a people Now, that can be anxious,

403
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 4: people that can be avoidant, and that can also be

404
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 4: people who have addiction problems and things like that, because

405
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 4: those all come from insecurities. That's insecure people tend to

406
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 4: be more fragile, and that's because of their insecurities. The

407
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 4: reason why insecure people are fragile is because of their insecurities.

408
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 4: Let me explain why people that are insecure assign underlying

409
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 4: meanings to things, underlying meanings that don't exist. So let's

410
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 4: just say in a relationship, for example, you're a married relationship,

411
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 4: and let's say the husband's the husband's job was to

412
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 4: take out the d role at the trash that day

413
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 4: and he forgot to do so, and the wife, oh,

414
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 4: you forgot to take out the trash. Now, the event

415
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 4: at hand is really just that the trash was not

416
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 4: taken out right and got missed. But the husband gets

417
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 4: all defensive. Yeah, you get defensive just over the trash.

418
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 4: And when he can easily go, oh, you're right, I forgot,

419
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 4: he gets defensive because he assigned an underlying meaning. So

420
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 4: his underlying meaning, which usually is not based in real

421
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 4: but it's because of insecurities, would be she's criticizing me

422
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 4: for the trash because she thinks I'm stupid, she thinks

423
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 4: I'm not good enough, she thinks I'm not level. Those

424
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 4: kind of underlying meanings that he's assigned to her displeasure

425
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 4: over the trash when reality it was just about the trash, right.

426
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 4: It's the underlying meanings. It's the underlying insecurities that people

427
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 4: assigned to things that makes them more fragile. So when

428
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 4: you're criticizing, even if it's constructive criticism, when you're criticizing

429
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 4: someone that's insecure, they don't handle it well because they

430
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 4: assign an underlying meaning to your criticism and it becomes

431
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 4: all encompassing. So you may be criticizing one small thing,

432
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 4: like hey, could you try doing this way instead, and

433
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 4: instead of just being about the item at hand, the

434
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 4: insecure person will take it as an all out assault

435
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 4: on them that they are terrible even when it's not

436
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 4: the case, it's the underlying meaning. So people that are

437
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 4: insecure apply that, and that's why it's so hard to

438
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 4: actually criticize secure person haven't take it well because they're

439
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 4: so fragile.

440
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the kind of thing too, where the

441
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 2: underlying message probably wasn't created in that relationship, right, Like

442
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: I'm assuming a lot of times that was often created

443
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,239
Speaker 2: in childhood, and so it's not really something as an

444
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: adult if you're in a relationship with an insecure person

445
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: that you could even fix or like do anything about,

446
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: because you're not even aware it was there because it

447
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: happened so long.

448
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 4: Ago, exactly, and it usually comes from childhood. Now, relationships

449
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: and events that happen in our adult lives can deepen

450
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: old wounds, though for sureple Let's take you can have

451
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 4: a situation where, let's say you have somebody who's mildly

452
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 4: anxious to smiled, go through a relationship or a marriage

453
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 4: to a narcissist and come out severely anxious. So events

454
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 4: and relationships that you do have as adults can exaggerate

455
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 4: previous old wounds, but the stuff usually comes from childhood.

456
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: That makes sense, why since you mentioned narcissists. Let's talk

457
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: about what is the difference between narcissists and avoidant because

458
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: I know a lot of times as are often kind

459
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: of intermingled and there are differences. I mean, I know

460
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: some narcissists are some avoidances are narcissists, but not all.

461
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: So can you kind of talk us through that a

462
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: little bit.

463
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 4: Well, the vast majority of avoidance are not narcissists, but

464
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 4: narcissists at their core are avoids. So now that doesn't

465
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 4: mean that all narcissists behave as avoidant attachers. Some of

466
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 4: them actually can be quite clinging, anxious, or disorganized, but narcissists,

467
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 4: at their core, they are very, very traumatized, wounded, unhealed people.

468
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 4: And what they do is they create a false self

469
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 4: image of this person that is benevolent, that is perfect,

470
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 4: that makes no mistakes, as charming, charming, witting, witting, smart,

471
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 4: and you know, sassy, sexy, all the positive attributes can

472
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 4: think of, and that's the image that they project to

473
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 4: the world. They do that to mask their inner pain,

474
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: to avoid it. They don't want to avoid facing their

475
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 4: inner pain and trauma, so they create this this very

476
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 4: self absorbed persona. But as a mask. It's all a

477
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 4: mask to hide the inner paint, which is essentially a

478
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,959
Speaker 4: method of avoidance because they're avoiding that. Now, narcissists do

479
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 4: have behavior that can overlap with dismissive avoidance, like discarding

480
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 4: somebody potentially cheating on them, things like that, But there

481
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 4: are some distinct differences between an avoidant and a narcissist.

482
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 4: First of all, avoidant attachment is just an attachment style.

483
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 4: It is a learned behavior that can be unlearned. True

484
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 4: narcissism is a personality disorder. It's not and can narcissist change.

485
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: That's up for debate. There are some self aware ones

486
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: out there, they're far and few between. Now. Narcissists tend

487
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: to completely lack empathy. They are cold. They don't really

488
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 4: have the ability to love people. They don't love people.

489
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 4: They love the attention they get from people. There's a difference.

490
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: Whereas the avoidance dismissive avoidance fearful avoidance. They can love,

491
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: they can feel empathy, and they can heal and change,

492
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 4: and they do so all the time. And they're generally

493
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 4: are not nearly as cold and nasty and cruel as

494
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 4: a narcissist can be.

495
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: So avoidance do feel empathy though, because that to me

496
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: sometimes like the discard the avoiding behaviors that they do

497
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: because they feel so anxious, like being on the other

498
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 2: side of that, it doesn't feel like an avoidant has

499
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: any sort of concept what their behavior might make someone

500
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: else feel like.

501
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: Okay, so a narcissist when they discard you, they're never

502
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 4: going to feel bad about it. They're just never right

503
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: an avoidance because they're heightened in that avoidance state. They're

504
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 4: in a reactive mode during that moment when they're discarding you.

505
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 4: They are avoiding feeling the pain, they're avoiding feeling the

506
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 4: empathy as But as time goes by, that catches up

507
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 4: with them and they can all feel quite guilty for

508
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 4: what they did to you, and it can actually lead

509
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: towards them feeling a deeper sense of shame, telling themselves

510
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: that they're bad people. And shame is actually a toxic emotion.

511
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 4: Regret means well, I did you know feeling guilty? Regret

512
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 4: that means you did something wrong. That's your your mind

513
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 4: telling you you did something wrong. Shame, on the other hand,

514
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 4: is telling yourself I am something wrong, and that's a

515
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 4: toxic emotion. So they absolutely can feel empathy. The thing

516
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 4: is they don't always feel it at the appropriate time,

517
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 4: but but they do, and they did, they did. They

518
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 4: can feel empathy in a way that a narcissist simply doesn't.

519
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: Is this why avoidance tend to come back? Because it

520
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: feels like that thing where it's like the discard is fast,

521
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 2: you don't know what is happening with you. I feel

522
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: like the older I've gotten, the more I'm like watching

523
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: you know, people do this or whatever, and I'm like, oh,

524
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 2: they'll be back, not just in my life, just in

525
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: general in the world, Like you know, they're coming back

526
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 2: at some point. And so is it just that their

527
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: feelings kick in later and then they come back And

528
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: then a lot of times I think it's too late

529
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: or it should be.

530
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 4: Well, it should be, But yes, it's because so when

531
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: the avoidant does the discard, they're in that height and

532
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 4: reactive mode. Their emotions are triggered and all they want

533
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 4: to do is escape. Yeah, Then after time goes by

534
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 4: and they're no longer being chased and no longer being pursued,

535
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: they allow themselves to take down that emotional brick wall

536
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 4: and they start allowing themselves to access their feelings for

537
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 4: you again. That's when they can feel deep regret, deep shame,

538
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 4: deep remorse and miss you. And that's when they try

539
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 4: to come back because they're allowing themselves to access those

540
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 4: feelings again. And it's only when they feel safe and

541
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 4: they feel safe when they're no longer pressured to be

542
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 4: in a relationship with you.

543
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but isn't that why the cycle continues, Because then

544
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: it's like if the other person lets them back in

545
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: without doing any work. I would imagine then the second

546
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: they start to get close again, they're gone again.

547
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 4: That's why sometimes, especially if you see some of the

548
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 4: comments on some of my videos, people say, oh, it

549
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 4: happened for the fifth time, sixth times. Some ran keeps

550
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 4: on going, which is why I say, well, first of all,

551
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: should anybody ever give an avoidant a second chance? That

552
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 4: is for that is up to the individual. They know

553
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 4: this person can some avoidance change. Absolutely Can they earn

554
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 4: second chances and make it better? They absolutely can. It's

555
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: perfectly okay if you feel like this person deserves a

556
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: second chance, But I would not take them back unconditionally.

557
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: I would take them back conditionally. You know, I'm open

558
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: to rekindling this relationship, but this is what I need

559
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 4: from you, and then some boundaries with this person. You

560
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 4: know that could include therapy. If you don't go to

561
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: therapy and you can and you don't commit to that,

562
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 4: then I can't be in this relationship. So that's the

563
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 4: opportunity to capitalize on the fact that the avoidant is

564
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: feeling a regret and remorse for hurting you and wants

565
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: to fix it and make them commit to doing some

566
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 4: healing work, because that gives you a better chance to

567
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 4: actually have the second or go around with the relationship

568
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 4: be more successful and different because it can they can

569
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: do it, but you have. But that's the key is

570
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 4: that when you do take them back, to make sure

571
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 4: you're taking them back with conditions. Set those boundaries being

572
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 4: what you will and will not tolerate. If you take

573
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: them back unconditionally, just what happened under the rug, They're

574
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: going to do it to you again most likely.

575
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you how if someone's listening

576
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: and they're thinking, Okay, maybe this is why my relationship

577
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: has been so crazy as I'm with an avoidant attachment

578
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: partner or a votedly attached partner, and I want to

579
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: set boundaries. Do you have any suggestions like.

580
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: Is it the therapy?

581
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: Is this all personal? Is it that you need to

582
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: be working with a therapist to come up with your

583
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: own plan? Like what is the best suggestion you would

584
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: say to those listeners?

585
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, what you will and will not tolerate,

586
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: your boundaries, what you will and will not take, what

587
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 4: you want and don't want, or up to each individual person.

588
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: I can't tell you what your boundaries are or should be,

589
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: because everybody has a different tolerance and desires. But boundaries

590
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: don't have to be something that are confrontational, right, So

591
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 4: different examples of boundaries could be like I will not

592
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: get cheated on. If you cheat on me, I will

593
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 4: leave the relationship. Or it could be something as simple

594
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 4: as I will not get screamed at if you scream

595
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 4: at me, I will remove myself from the situation until

596
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 4: you calm down and then we can Those are different boundaries.

597
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: Boundaries don't have to be always these big encompassing things.

598
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: They can be small things. But boundaries are really what

599
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 4: define you as a person. That's how you tell the

600
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: partner in the world who you are, what you want,

601
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: what you don't want, what you will take what you

602
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 4: won't take, because if you don't define your boundaries, you're

603
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 4: a blank slate and the other person whatever they want

604
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 4: to you. And if you don't enforce your boundaries, you're

605
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 4: essentially canceling yourself. You're telling yourself that your wants, your feelings,

606
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 4: your needs don't matter. And it's a bad feeling to

607
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 4: let somebody trample over your boundaries because you're telling yourself

608
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: you don't matter. But when you do enforce your boundaries,

609
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: even though it's not fun to do so, in the moment,

610
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 4: you do feel better about yourself because you know you

611
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 4: have your own back. You can rely on yourself to

612
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 4: take care of your own wants and needs even when

613
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 4: it's difficult, and that's actually a self esteem boost, it's

614
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: a confidence boost. So setting those boundaries doesn't have to

615
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 4: be confrontational. You can tell the person like, listen, this

616
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: is what I want, this is what I don't want,

617
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: this is what I need, that's what I don't need,

618
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: and hey, this dynamic, I need communication from you. If

619
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 4: you don't communicate with me, that's not something I can do.

620
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: So there's different boundaries that you can set. Only you

621
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: know what is right for you and what you're willing

622
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 4: to tolerate or not tolerate and tolerate in the relationship.

623
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 4: And a healthy partner, a person that loves you and

624
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: cares about you, will respect your boundaries and do their

625
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 4: hardest to honor them. Can a healthy partner sometimes step

626
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 4: over and by accident, Sure, but a healthy partner will

627
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 4: recognize that, take ownership and then try to do better.

628
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 4: A toxic partner, well, does not care about your boundaries.

629
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 4: Toxic partner loves their own boundaries, they don't like yours.

630
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: What do you mean by that?

631
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 4: Like a narcissist for example. Okay, their boundaries. You better

632
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 4: not cheat on them, You better not talk badly to

633
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: them or anything like that. Right, they should be able

634
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 4: to treat you however they want, and sure you speak

635
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: up if they do anything to you.

636
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: Okay, that makes total sense. Okay.

637
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: So if you're like my friend who requested this podcast,

638
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: and you're thinking, I don't know what my attachment style

639
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: is and I'm feeling anxious, but sometimes I avoid or

640
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: whatever that would be. Do you have suggestions to people

641
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: of how to figure out what they are or what

642
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: their style is.

643
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: Well, it's going to require some self reflection to find

644
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 4: out what your triggers are. Look in the past, look

645
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 4: where you've been triggered and you know it. And are

646
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: are you wanting to shut down? Are you wanting to

647
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: pull away? Are you wanting to kind of be a

648
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 4: clinger in the relationship, or are you both? Look at

649
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 4: your own behaviors and your tendencies throughout the past, and

650
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 4: it's going to give you the road map of what

651
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 4: you are. I mean, someone like that sounds like they're

652
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 4: probably disorganized. Yeah, disorganized doesn't mean you're severely disorganized. You'll

653
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 4: be mildly disorganized. If you're able to sustain a relationship,

654
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: chances are you're not severe. If you're unable to sustain relationships,

655
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 4: what chances are you might be a bit more severe.

656
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 4: But the one way to always it doesn't matter whether

657
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,479
Speaker 4: you're disorganized, doesn't matter whether you're anxious or avoidant. If

658
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: you want to center yourself, which is where everybody wants

659
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 4: to be you want to be centered and secure, is

660
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 4: whenever those stressors arise, whenever the anxiety bubbles up, because

661
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 4: it's anxiety, whether it's avoidant or anxious, anxiety is anxiety.

662
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: Is to ask yourself in the moment, how do I

663
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: respond to this rather than react. Just ask yourself that question.

664
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: When you ask yourself the question, you are shifting yourself

665
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: over from your emotional brain to your logical brain, and

666
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: then you can actually respond to it as opposed to reacting.

667
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 4: When you respond, you're going to make a more confident

668
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 4: decision no matter what the situation is. You're going to

669
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 4: be able to better navigate relationships, work, life, everything. You

670
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 4: make a focus on becoming a responder Because human beings

671
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 4: we learn in repetition, So when you do a new

672
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 4: behavior over and over again, that's going to become more

673
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: automatic for you and you're going to start feeling more secure.

674
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 4: So when you're feeling anxiety, yes, is it nice to

675
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 4: recognize what your attachment is. Sure, but at the end

676
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: of the day, you know what anxiety feels like. And

677
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 4: if you can just focus on becoming a responder rather

678
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: than reactor, regardless of your avoidant or if you're anxious

679
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 4: or both, you can pull yourself into secure zone, which

680
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 4: is where you ultimately want to be anyway, So recognize

681
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 4: anxiety and then and just be a responder to it.

682
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: It's very simple. The only thing that's hard about it

683
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 4: is the willpower and the dedication to do it consistently.

684
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 4: But you do it consistently, it doesn't take all that

685
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 4: long you start to find yourself feeling more and more secure.

686
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

687
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: The interesting thing, I'm so glad that you're touching on

688
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: the fact that even when you're secure, and you kind

689
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: of mentioned this at the beginning of the podcast, like,

690
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: you still have normal human feelings, you know, like you're

691
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: gonna have days where you feel anxiety, anxiety, or you're

692
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: gonna get in a fight with your partner and you're

693
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: gonna feel anxious and whatever. But it's for me, it's

694
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: been about how do I go, Where do I go

695
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: in that moment? Like what am I seeking to make

696
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: me feel better? Because what I used to do when

697
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: I was younger was think that my partner was the

698
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: only route to me feeling better, which is the definition

699
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: of anxious attachment basically, and that but that was what

700
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: I had learned through my life, and so over the

701
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: years of doing all the work that I've done on myself,

702
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 2: though I now feel secure and in my last relationship, specifically,

703
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 2: when I would get triggered, it wasn't like I never

704
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: had the feelings that I had in the past. Or

705
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 2: the same situations of like, you know, I've been cheated

706
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: on before, so let's use that as an example. But like,

707
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: if something would happen in this relationship, there might be

708
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: a slight trigger where I would go, oh wait, is

709
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: this that thing again? But there were ways for me,

710
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: like I learned enough new tools, even sometimes it was

711
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: going on a walk, like to just calm my nervous system,

712
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: but learning the new tools to then respond to the

713
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: trigger in that way, and then, like you're saying, that

714
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: begins to be what you crave as the response instead

715
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: of just like going to the other person, going to

716
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: the fight, going to like all the texting and blah

717
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: blah blah, whatever we would do if we were triggered

718
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: in our anxious or wooden attachment. Do you have anything

719
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 2: to add to that or did I?

720
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

721
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: Okay?

722
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 4: And that's actually very true, is that when you are

723
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 4: especially when you're an anxiously attached person, you tend to

724
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 4: become a codependent. You were relying on the other person

725
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: to regulate your own feelings. Yes, of the day, we

726
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 4: are all responsible for our own feelings and our own happiness.

727
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: You cannot make anybody feel anything, and you can't make

728
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 4: them do anything. You can't make them be happy or sad.

729
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 4: You just can't. I hear somebody who's suddenly became rich

730
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 4: and got millions upon millions of dollars, but they're still

731
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 4: miserable because happiness is it's absolutely a choice and one

732
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 4: of the mistakes that people often have, and unfortunately, you'll

733
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 4: find a lot of it on social media pushing this

734
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 4: idea that you find that you find and get happiness

735
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 4: from another person. So if you are seeking happiness from

736
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 4: another person, this is what happens. Usually the people that

737
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 4: are seeking happiness from another person actually have inner on happiness,

738
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 4: and narcissists are very notorious for this, but other people

739
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: can as well. So you get into a new relationship,

740
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 4: the dopamine is flying. You're feeling great and you're feeling

741
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 4: happy because you're in this brand new relationship. You have

742
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: a shiny new toy. Well, the brain begins to regulate

743
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 4: itself as a relationship progresses, and that unhealed trauma, the

744
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 4: unhappiness that you have within starts to bubble back up

745
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 4: to the service. But you're in a relationship with that person,

746
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 4: so it must be their fault that you're unhappy. So

747
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 4: then you go to the next one, and then you're

748
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 4: feeling happy again because you got the dopamine flowing from

749
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 4: the new relationship. When the unhappiness comes back up, well,

750
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 4: it's their fault. So if you are relying upon other

751
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 4: people for your happiness, you're always going to be unhappy

752
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: because you're never going to find it.

753
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 3: That makes so much sense, Yeah.

754
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 4: Because the dopamine wears off. Yeah, taking your own responsibility

755
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 4: for your happiness and realizing that happiness is actually a

756
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: choice will really help you have a healthier outlook on

757
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 4: a relationship and understand that your partner's behavior cannot make

758
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 4: you happy and they cannot make you sad, just like

759
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 4: you can't make them happy and you can't make them sad.

760
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 4: What you can do for each other, however, is you

761
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: can make an environment for your partner that makes it

762
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 4: easier for them to choose happiness, but you can't make

763
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 4: them choose it.

764
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

765
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: Well, let's own a touch really quick too, on the

766
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 2: fact that I know a lot of times before we

767
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 2: work on healing our attachment styles, we end up creating

768
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: the same relationships over and over, like we've mentioned before,

769
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 2: and is it true typically that like an anxious partner

770
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: is always going to pick an avoidant and vice versa,

771
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: or do you like, is it double avoidance can sometimes

772
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: end up together? Are two anxious people like, how does

773
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: that work? And are we kind of doomed to always

774
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 2: repeat the same cycles? And then can we pick secure partners?

775
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 3: How does that work?

776
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 4: So, first of all, it is common and very typical

777
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 4: that anxious and avoidant attract each other. However, there are

778
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 4: circumstances where anxious and anxious and avoidant and avoidant get

779
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: into relationships with each other. Okay, at the end of

780
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 4: the day is what is really very common is that

781
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: insecure attracts insecure, and secure attracts secure. So people have

782
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 4: a preconceived notion and the human mind like, see be

783
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 4: proven right. So somebody who's anxious already has the preconceived

784
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 4: notion that they are too much in a relationship, that

785
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 4: they are overwhelming. Avoidant typically has a preconceived notion that

786
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: they are not enough in a relationship and they don't

787
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 4: give enough. So when the avoidant and the anxious person

788
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 4: get together, the anxious person confirms their fears by overwhelming

789
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 4: the avoidant, and then the avoidant confirms their fears by

790
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 4: not being good enough or not doing enough for the

791
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 4: anxious person. So the human mind, even though it's something

792
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 4: bad that you don't want, likes to be confirmed. Correct.

793
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 4: You like to be validated. So you're validying yourself by

794
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 4: picking a partner that confirms your fears. It's all subconscious

795
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 4: and it gravitates you towards the kind of personality that's

796
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: going to confirm your fears. Now, it's interesting, though, very interesting,

797
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 4: when two avoidants get into a relationship with each other.

798
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 4: Every person is different, so this is when I'm talking

799
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 4: about two avoidances two anxious people, I'm talking in very

800
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: generic terms because each individual person is still unique, so

801
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: everybody is different. Not everybody behaves in the same way.

802
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 4: But generally, when two avoidants get into relationship, whoever is

803
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 4: the more mildly avoidant person tends to start to become anxious.

804
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 4: And then when two anxious people get into a relationship,

805
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: whoever is more mildly anxious tends to start becoming avoided.

806
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: Okay, so then if we do our work, and this

807
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 2: is obviously like a selfish question, like we do our work,

808
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 2: we start resonating as secure, do you feel like you'll

809
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: start attracting more secure partners once you get back into.

810
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 4: Dating, Yes, and you'll be able to also better recognize

811
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 4: the insecure ones. Yeah, okay, Now, somebody with mild insecurities

812
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 4: does not mean they're a bad partner.

813
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 3: No, sure, even with.

814
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 4: Somebody with deeper insecurities can actually still be a good partner.

815
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 4: The differences if this person has insecurities, are they able

816
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 4: to take ownership of it and make corrective actions and

817
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 4: work towards it. If they're an insecure person but they

818
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: recognize it and they're able to put the brakes on

819
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 4: themselves and they're working on regulating themselves, they can be

820
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 4: a good partner. It's the ones that stick their head

821
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 4: in the sand and don't do the work that are

822
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 4: are going to be But I mean, it's there's some

823
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 4: crazy stats out there. There's a recent study that was

824
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 4: done that shows about fifty percent of the US population

825
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: men and women are either insecurely attached or narcissistic. So

826
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: that's a lot of.

827
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 3: People lot or narcissistic or narcissistic.

828
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, of the population is more what you call

829
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 4: secure based, So there are a lot of healthy people

830
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 4: out there. The key is to start looking for red

831
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 4: flags and be able to pick up on these insecurities,

832
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 4: wasting time on the wrong person, because guess what, when

833
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 4: people show you who they are, believe them. Because you're

834
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 4: ignoring red flags that you clearly see, Well.

835
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 3: You're going to say the consequences.

836
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 4: Usually you do it. Everybody might pop up a red

837
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 4: flag here, and they're even a secure person. But you

838
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 4: know when it's red flag after red flag and you're

839
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: seeing all these signs, just because you wish this person

840
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 4: to be something different doesn't mean they are. Yeah, and

841
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 4: I'll tell you the two biggest red flags for somebody

842
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 4: who's an avoidant. Okay, one is when they are fiercely independent,

843
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: and often even on their dating profile, they'll boast about

844
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 4: being fiercely independent. Now, sounds like a good thing. People

845
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: can ease miss us as a red flag because being

846
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 4: an independent adult is a good thing. You should be

847
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 4: an independent, autonomous person. If you're an adult, you should

848
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: be able to support yourself. It is the insecure avoidant

849
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: that feels the need to assert it because they have

850
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 4: fear of engulfment. They have fear of losing their independence

851
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: to a partner who's ultimately going to abandon and reject them,

852
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 4: so they announce their independence because of their insecurities. A

853
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 4: secure person doesn't feel the need to announce their independence

854
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 4: because it should be a given. The analogy I like

855
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 4: to use is if you're a parent, that would be

856
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: the equivalent of telling people, hey, guess what I feed

857
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 4: my kids? Well, yeah, it's a good thing, but why

858
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 4: are you bragging about it?

859
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 3: You get right, like you should do that anyway.

860
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 4: Right, So that's the same thing that the avoidant is

861
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 4: doing there. They're announcing independence when you should be independent,

862
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 4: as if you're forty years old, you shouldn't be living

863
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 4: in mom's basement. So it's no offense to those who are.

864
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: But so the other red flag that they often tend

865
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 4: to is the wall. The guard even hurt in the

866
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 4: past and they have a wall up and it takes

867
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 4: some time to bring that guard down. What they're really

868
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: telling you is that guard is fort knocks and you're

869
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 4: not getting in, and that they are emotionally unavailable. Because

870
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 4: a secure person should have a bit of a guard,

871
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 4: a healthy guard essentially a healthy skepticism going into relationship

872
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 4: because you don't know the person yet. But the secure

873
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 4: person doesn't feel the need to assert it. It is

874
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: the insecure, emotionally unavailable, avoidant that feels the need to

875
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 4: assert about that guard.

876
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: The other interesting thing I'm thinking as you say that is,

877
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: isn't it kind of an indicator that someone doesn't have

878
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 2: a lot of self trust Because if you're putting all

879
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 2: these boundaries up at the beginning, you're not trusting yourself

880
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: to walk into the relationship and be like, WHOA, that

881
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: feels like a lot I need to take a step back,

882
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: or you know, that feels like it's encroaching on my

883
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: independence or whatever. Like I don't know how to exactly

884
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: makes sense of what is popping up for me, But

885
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: I've found that the more I trust myself to make

886
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: good decisions, the more freedom I have in relationships, really,

887
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: because I can walk into it without the fear of like,

888
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 2: oh but what if this happens or what if they

889
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: get to demanding on me? Then I gotta I'm gonna

890
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: have to.

891
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 4: Set that a boundary, right, Because when people are putting

892
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 4: stuff out there really asserting their independence, yeah, fears their guard,

893
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 4: what they're really doing is they're telling you I'm insecure,

894
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 4: Yeah you're going to that You're going to do something

895
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 4: to push my insecurities to, you know, make defense. So

896
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 4: they're really is telling you that they're insecure. A secure

897
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 4: person doesn't feel we need to make those kind of no.

898
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 4: You know, a secure person is going to have confidence

899
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 4: in themselves and trust in themselves to navigate the relationship

900
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 4: should anything arise.

901
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like when it comes up, then you can

902
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: talk about it or you have the tools to deal

903
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 2: with it, versus like having to say the thing, the

904
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 2: pre thing or whatever to warn you so that when

905
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 2: it happens you don't have any sort of response.

906
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 4: I guess exactly. So that's the difference. It's not that

907
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 4: a secure person doesn't feel anxiety. Yeah, a secure person

908
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 4: has the tools in their tool belt. They have the

909
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 4: weapons in their arsenal to navigate anxiety in a healthy way,

910
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 4: whereas the insecure people have a hard time with that.

911
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: That's it.

912
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: You just said it in the perfect way. This is

913
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: why I love your work. See you sum up everything.

914
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: I'm thinking.

915
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 2: I'm like, that is how I should have said that. Yes,

916
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: that was great, coach Ryan. If people want to follow

917
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 2: along or they're listening and they're thinking, okay, I need

918
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: to know a lot more, where can they find you?

919
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 4: You know, they can find me on both TikTok and Instagram.

920
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 4: You're working towards getting on some other platforms too, but

921
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 4: you'll find me on both TikTok and Instagram as coach

922
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 4: Ryan Tryan and I'm posting videos out there every day,

923
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 4: trying to spread as much information as I can. And

924
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 4: there's also links to my bios if anybody wants to

925
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 4: book a session with me is Coach RYANLC dot com

926
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 4: and I do one on one zoom video sessions with

927
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 4: people too amazing.

928
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: I'll put all of that in the description of this

929
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: podcast for you guys. Thank you for being here with us.

930
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people might have questions about

931
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: avoid and attachment, so hit up Coach Ryan. I'll put

932
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: his links again in the description of this podcast.

933
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 4: Thanks Coach Ryan, thank you very much, Thanks for having me.

934
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

935
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

936
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

937
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.