1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy E. Wilson. Before we get started, 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: we'll do a little reminder at the top of this 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: one that we have a live show coming up. Yeah, 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: very exciting. Yeah. This is at the Indiana History Center, 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: the Eugene and Marlyn Glick Indiana History Center. It's going 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: to be on Friday, July nineteenth. You can come to 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: the show and buy a ticket just for that, or 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: you can buy a ticket that includes a meet and 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: greet with us beforehand. We would love to see you there. 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: It's as I said, Friday July nineteenth. It's going to 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: be very fun. We have been there before, we really 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: loved it. They have some exhibits I'm real excited to 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: see this time. If you would like to come and 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: see us and see the many cool things they have 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: going on, you can check out Indianahistory dot org slash 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: events and get all of your info and register. And 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: now we'll hop into the episode, which is about George 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: Gustav High, who is a person that came across my 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: zone of interest a while back, and I kept tiptoeing 22 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: around him and thinking, do I really want to talk 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: about this guy? And I do. His work in curating 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a collection of Native American artifacts has been really important 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: because it has enabled many people to learn about indigenous cultures. 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: But there's, of course the raft of problems involved. His 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: collecting practices and his relationship to those cultures are very complicated. 28 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: He sounds like a very interesting person to know, but 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: also not without his foibles and problems. So we're going 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,279 Speaker 1: to talk about him today and how we're still living 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: in a world influenced by what he did. Yeah, it 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: was not a name I was familiar with until you 33 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: told me that you're working on this episode. Yeah. George 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Gustav Hi was born September sixteenth, eighteen seventy four, in 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: New York City at two ninety eight Lexington Avenue. Specifically, 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: this was the family home. His parents were Carl Friedrich 37 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: Gustav High and Marie Antoinette Lawrence High. Carl had been 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: born in Germany and made his fortune in petroleum and 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: started a company called Economy Refining Company. That business was 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: eventually bought out for a very large sum by John D. Rockefeller, 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: who made it part of Standard Oil. We have a 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: whole podcast about that. He kept carl On in an 43 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: executive position after that. So George, Gustav and his sister 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: also named Marie Antoinette. Like their mother, they were both 45 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: born into wealth. George's youth sounds fairly idyllic and carefree. 46 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: He grew up with other wealthy boys as friends, and 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: the High family spent summers at Lake Hapetcong, New Jersey, 48 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: and the rest of the year Georgia attended Berkeley School. 49 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: He often traveled to Europe with his father on business 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: from the time he was a very young boy, so 51 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: he was really very well traveled in comparison to most 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: people living in the United States, certainly in comparison to 53 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: other children. He graduated from the Berkeley School in eighteen 54 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: ninety one. While he was still a student, George had 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: joined the National Guard and served in Company one, seventh 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: Regiment of the New York Guard from eighteen ninety to 57 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety six. He enrolled at Columbia for his undergraduate 58 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: work and maintained active status in the Guard during his 59 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: studies there. In eighteen ninety two, High started studying electrical 60 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: engineering that was a new course at Columbia and that 61 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: was part of the School of Minds there. While there 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: he assisted Professor Michael Poopa in work that he was 63 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: doing in long distance telephony. High senior thesis was a 64 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: collaborative project with another student and friend, Paul McGann, on 65 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: the use of organic oils as lubricants. I have a 66 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: fun story about the thesis from behind the scenes. On 67 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Friday Great during his senior year, George was called up 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: as a guardsman for the first and only time when 69 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: a street trolley strike led to concerns of riots. And 70 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: this strike, which involved five thousand workers walking off the 71 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: job under the umbrella of the group Knights of Labor, 72 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: tied up Brooklyn's transportation completely and it started out peacefully, 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: but within a day pockets of violence had started to 74 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 1: erupt as scab workers were brought in and the striking 75 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: laborers physically restrained trolleys from moving. After a week of 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: escalating tension, the National Guard had been brought in, and 77 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: although George and his colleagues got the trolleys moving again, 78 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: there were still many incidents of violence between strikers and 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: the scab workers that had been hired in from other cities. 80 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: As well as between strike workers and the militia. One 81 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: striker was shot by the guard. George, though appears to 82 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: have been pretty unscathed in the month long con and 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: he went back to school when it was all over. 84 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety six, High graduated with his electrical engineering degree. 85 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: He'd already been taking engineering jobs before graduation. Although there's 86 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: not a whole lot of information on the specifics, we 87 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: do know that he was contracted with the White Crosby 88 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: Company and often traveled for his jobs, and it's during 89 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: that travel that he found the focus of his life's work. 90 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: We have his own account of this experience. It includes 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: some outdated language. We're reading it because it's such a 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: formative moment in his story. Quote in eighteen ninety seven, 93 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: I was sent to Kingman, Arizona as assistant superintendent of 94 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: construction for a branch track to a mine about seventeen 95 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: miles distant. I obtained a number of Navajo Indians for 96 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: use as laborers for grading the right of way. I 97 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: lived in a tent on the work, and in the 98 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: evenings I used to wander about the Indians quarters. One 99 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: night I noticed the wife of one of my Indian 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: foremen biting on what seemed to be a piece of skin. 101 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: Upon inquiry, I found she was chewing the seams of 102 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: her husband's deer skin shirt in order to kill the lice. 103 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: I bought the shirt, became interested in Aboriginal customs, and 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: acquired other objects as opportunity offered, sending them back from 105 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: time to time to my home at eleven East forty 106 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: eighth Street. In fact, I spent more time collecting Navajo 107 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: costume pieces and trinkets than I did superintending road beds. 108 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: That shirt was the start of my collection. Naturally, when 109 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: I had a shirt, I wanted a rattle and moccasins, 110 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: and then the collecting bugs seized me and I was lost. 111 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: When I returned to New York after about ten months 112 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: in Arizona, I found quite an accumulation in articles. These 113 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,239 Speaker 1: I placed about my room, and I began to read 114 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: rather intently on the subject of the Indians. So, okay, 115 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: I never find anyone commenting on this, but I wanted 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: to talk about it, because this idea of chewing leather 117 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: seems to combat lice seems like it must have been 118 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: some sort of misunderstanding. I could not find any mention 119 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: of this practice. There are tales of leather hides being 120 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: chewed to soften the seams, but even that is considered 121 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: kind of an old wives tale and it's not really substantiated. Also, 122 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: lice doesn't really tend to cling to leather. I went 123 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: down a whole rabbit hole about that. So there are 124 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 1: some mysteries in this account that I wrote, And likely 125 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: this sort of strange thing is informed by a bit 126 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: of otherism in trying to characterize the Navajo that he 127 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: came into contact with as having these difficult to understand 128 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: practices from a white person's perspective, and also just as 129 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: part of exoticizing them. But he really did have a 130 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: fascination with North American indigenous cultures from this moment on, 131 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: and as he continued to travel work, he made it 132 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: a point to indulge his hobby everywhere he went. As 133 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: he mentioned in that account, kinda was doing more of 134 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: that than his actual job at times. Professionally, George Gustav 135 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: High next moved to the business of banking. In nineteen 136 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: oh one, he formed an investment firm known as Battles 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: High and Harrison. During the years that followed, he was 138 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: able to make a lot of connections that would further 139 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: his work in collecting indigenous artifacts, although he also had 140 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: a hand briefly in entertainment. In nineteen oh four, he 141 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: financed the construction of the Hudson Theater on West forty 142 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: fourth Street. High sold the Hudson Theater after running it 143 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: for a few years, but it's still there and it's 144 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: still actively part of the Broadway scene. Yeah, I think 145 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: as we're recording this, it is currently in the middle 146 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: of a run of Merrily We Roll Along. Some of 147 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: the people that George meant in his early years of collecting, 148 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: both before and after he started the banking firm, included 149 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: Joseph Kepler Junior, Marshall H. Saville, and George H. Pepper. 150 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Kepler Junior is pretty interesting. He was born Udo 151 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,359 Speaker 1: Kepler on April fourth, eighteen seventy two, in Saint Louis, Missouri. 152 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: He studied at the Columbia Institute and abroad before stepping 153 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: into his career in the same line of work as 154 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: his father, that was political cartooning. Joseph Kepler Senior was 155 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: the founder of Puck Magazine, and Udo became a contributor 156 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: to it in eighteen ninety and then when Joseph Senior 157 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: died in eighteen ninety four, Udo inherited his position and 158 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: became part owner of the magazine, and at that point 159 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: he also changed his name to Joseph Kepler Junior. And 160 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: it was while he was helming Puck that Kepler met 161 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: George Gustav High, and the two men shared this passion 162 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: of Native American object collecting and study. Kepler's specific area 163 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: of interest was the Iroquois, and he and II traveled 164 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: together on trips to reservations during their friendship, and their 165 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: first was in eighteen ninety nine when they visited the 166 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: Cattaraugus and ti on Awanda reservations in western New York State. 167 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: Unlike Kepler, who was an ardent but amateur collector, George 168 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Pepper was a professional ethnologist. He was born February second, 169 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy three, in Tottenville, New York, on Staten Island. 170 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: He was interested in archaeology from an early age and 171 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: spent time studying at the Peabody Museum at Harvard before 172 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: getting a job at the American Museum of Natural History 173 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: in New York, working as an assistant curator of Southwestern collections. 174 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: Next he moved to Columbia University. Pepper's expertise further expanded 175 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: High's interest and understanding of the bigger picture of Native 176 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: American cultures of North America. Marshall Seville was also a professional. 177 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: He had attended Harvard University and became particularly fascinated with 178 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: Mexican history, and when Hi met him, he was a 179 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: professor at Columbia and a founding member of the Explorers Club. 180 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: He was also a few year older than High, Pepper, 181 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: and Kepler, and he took on something of a mentor 182 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: role with High in particular, and those two men would 183 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: work together for decades. Through Kepler and especially Seville and Pepper, 184 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: Hi realized that his haphazard approach to collecting was doing 185 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: a disservice to the items that he had acquired in 186 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: his early years of interest. High wasn't systematic in cataloging 187 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: things or making sure to have careful notes about their providence. 188 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: But he was mentored by his more experienced acquaintances to 189 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: start taking more care when it came to records and 190 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: to consider his collecting with more purpose instead of just 191 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: picking up interesting things when he came across them. He 192 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: started to consider how they fit into a larger collection 193 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: to tell a story or enhance the narrative that might 194 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: be told about the indigenous cultures they had come from. 195 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: This led to High acquiring larger and sometimes already curated 196 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: collections rather than collecting them piecemeal. And the first of 197 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: these was one that Kepler and Seville had suggested. It 198 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: was a bunch of pre Columbian pottery that had been 199 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: found in New Mexico. So his collecting suddenly became a 200 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: lot more serious, But this also often meant that he 201 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: was buying from some other collector, whereas his small, one 202 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: at a time purchases had generally been directly from Native 203 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: Americans or indigenous people he had interacted with. He started 204 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: purchasing these larger groups of objects in nineteen oh three, 205 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: which is noted as a time when his interest transitioned 206 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: from being a hobby to being his life's work. One 207 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: part of this shift in his focus was that he 208 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: started to put his considerable financial assets into financing trips 209 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: and expeditions for and with various researchers to study and 210 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: collect indigenous artifacts. This was not just a matter of 211 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: George High opening his checkbook to make these trips happen 212 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: according to a biography of High written by Jay Alden 213 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: Mason in nineteen fifty eight, which was shortly after Hig's death. 214 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: Hi's mother, Marie Antoinette, paid for a lot of these efforts. 215 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: She had family money in addition to her fortune that 216 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: her husband Carl had amassed, and she was happily willing 217 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: to support her son's interests with it. In the course 218 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: of just a few years, High funded trips were mounted 219 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: to Mexico, Puerto Rico, and Ecuador. German American anthropologist Franz 220 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: Boas was the source of an important acquisition for High. 221 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: Boas was at the time teaching at Columbia University. He's 222 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: credited with working to make anthropology a field of academic 223 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: study while he was there, and BoA's, who had items 224 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: he wanted to sell because he needed money to pay 225 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: for his own research, hit a brick wall when he 226 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: was trying to sell those to museums, and then he 227 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: offered parts of his collection to George High. Hi also 228 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: started to finance the research work that BoA's was doing 229 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: that the university would not fund. Remember, this was still 230 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: a relatively new field for academia and certainly for Columbia. 231 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: So at this point Hi was paying through his mother 232 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: for Marshall Seville, George Pepper, and Franz Boas to all 233 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: Mount Field research expeditions. Coming up, We'll talk a bit 234 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: about what was going on in High's personal life at 235 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: this time, but first we will pause for a sponsor break. 236 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: Another development in George's life was unfolding at the same 237 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: time that he made his pivot to professional collector. On 238 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: January fifth, nineteen oh four, he married Blanche Agnes Williams, 239 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: who was from Massachusetts, and the pair moved to a 240 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: new apartment at six sixty seven Madison Avenue. But George's 241 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: collection quickly became too large to keep in their living space, 242 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: and so he rented another space on thirty ninth Street, 243 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: and when his acquisitions outgrew that space, he moved them 244 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: to another space on East thirty third that he renovated 245 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: to have an extra floor. And sometime during all of 246 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: this movement and growth, he and others started referring to 247 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: his growing collection as the High Museum, not of course, 248 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: to be confused with the High Museum in Atlanta, spelled differently. 249 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: George's name is Hye, but also not a museum in 250 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: the sense that it was a place people could go visit. 251 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: I also had this high museum confusion when you first 252 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: told me you were working on this. Yeah, because I 253 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: had only heard his name said out loud. I had 254 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,479 Speaker 1: not read it on anything. It is spelled h eye, 255 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: not high. One of Georgia's most important acquisitions in the 256 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: first decade of the twentieth century was a Hidatza medicine bundle. 257 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: The Hidatsa people are part of the Three Affiliated Tribes 258 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: nation of North Dakota. George acquired this piece in nineteen 259 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: oh seven, and we are mentioning it here in the 260 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: timeline of when he took possession of it. This becomes 261 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: important decades later, so keep in mind, Yeah, he acquired 262 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: it from a missionary who had gotten it in some way. 263 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh eight, George hired Mark Raymond Harrington, who 264 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: had just graduated from Columbia with a master's degree in anthropology, 265 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: as a full time collector for him, so basically someone 266 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: he could just send out into the field to collect 267 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: whenever he needed it. Harrington was instrumental in rapidly expanding 268 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: the collection as he traveled along the North American East coast, 269 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: and then across the South and acquired items from tribes 270 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: everywhere he went. Although High had moved into progressively bigger 271 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: spaces with his collection, it was never enough either, as 272 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: Hi kept on buying up artifacts and now had people 273 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: working under him to find even more. He made a 274 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: deal with the University of Pennsylvania to house a large 275 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: chunk of the collection from North America as a long 276 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: term loan. This deal also included George becoming a vice 277 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: president and his friends George Pepper and Mark Harrington being 278 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: given positions so they could oversee the collection and continue 279 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: to curate it for the university museum. He also paid 280 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: for the university to do its own research projects in 281 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: the field, as well as higher additional staff. In the 282 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,959 Speaker 1: book Collecting Native America, Clara Sue Kidwell notes in her 283 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: biography of High that because of his ability to finance 284 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: scholarship and anthropology privately, he was this very unique figure 285 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: who was able to set up deals like this just 286 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: as a private collector. This isn't like a case of 287 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: institutions making some sort of trade agreement. He was just 288 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: a guy who could throw money at things. This gave 289 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: him so much power. According to Kidwell, he was able 290 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: to dictate the University Museum's research and project planning because 291 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: of it. Additionally, Georgia gustav Hi was a huge figure, 292 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: both literally and figuratively. He was six foot three and 293 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: waiter reported three hundred pounds. He was jovial with people, 294 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: and he had this big personality and was really good 295 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: at gaining people's trusts when he wanted so. His stature 296 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: and personality, combined with his financial power, made him really 297 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: formidable when he wanted something. In nineteen oh nine, High 298 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: had stepped back from the banking firm, although he stayed 299 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: connected to it for another five years, but in nineteen 300 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: fourteen he made the decision to leave banking completely to 301 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: focus on his collection. He had continued to hire staff 302 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: to help him collect and things. We're moving so quickly 303 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: that he really couldn't make time for anything but his collection. 304 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: He also shifted his focus back to being more personally 305 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: involved in excavations and research trips. We'll talk more about 306 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: an incident that happened on one such trip in just 307 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: a bit. And just to be clear, High's work was 308 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: not a case where people didn't appreciate what he was 309 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: doing until after his death. He made headlines all the time. 310 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: For example, on February seventeenth, nineteen thirteen, the Daily Arkansas 311 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: Gazette ran a story into the headline New York broker 312 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: loses his yacht in making the discovery, but doesn't care much. 313 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: That story shares how George was at the time financing 314 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: three different expeditions in the West Indies and how one 315 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: of the teams had located a pre Columbian paddle that 316 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: was very valuable in a cave on Moore Island. The 317 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: story goes into great detail about how paddles like it 318 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: were described in writing about Columbus's travels in the area, 319 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: and that it's believed that such paddles had not been 320 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: seen since the late fifteenth century, and that the collected 321 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: four foot long specimen was believed to be more than 322 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: five hundred years old. And in the course of that find, 323 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: a yacht called the Bessie J began taking on water 324 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: during a storm and was lost. That was a yacht 325 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: that was George's, and the write up mentions that four 326 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: of the crew members aboard got into a dinghy and 327 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: they were picked up later, but that one member of 328 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: the crew might have been lost while they talk a 329 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: lot about this boat. There's no further comment on that 330 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: man's fate. But at the same time High's work was 331 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: being written about with admiration, a very different sort of 332 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: article about him was also populating its way through the 333 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: North American press. Missus High had filed for divorce, and 334 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: it seemed like everybody wanted to talk about it, especially 335 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: about the couple's finances. The Washington Post wrote all about it, 336 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: including the information that High's work was part of what 337 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: drove the pair apart. Quote. The differences between mister and 338 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: Missus High were set in the published report to be 339 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: due to incompatibility of temperament, which had increased as mister 340 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: High had become more and more absorbed in his scientific 341 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: researches and as Missus High had become more devoted to 342 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: her social duties. Coverage of their split escalated, and by 343 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: the time the couple had their first hearing, it was 344 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: covered in the papers every single day. A detail had 345 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: emerged that kept readers of papers engrossed. A woman who 346 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: was not named publicly had been named in the suit 347 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: as well, suggesting that George had been having a fear. 348 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: But while that might have caused a scandal, more attention 349 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: was paid to the amount of alimony that Missus High 350 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: was seeking. A brief blurb that ran all over the 351 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: country and even internationally read simply quote, twenty one cents 352 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: a minute, or seventy eight thousand dollars a year is 353 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: the amount of alimony asked here today by Missus Blanche, 354 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: a High, wife of George Gustavhi. The correspondent is characterized 355 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: in Missus High's divorce complaint as a person of no prominence, 356 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: And it seemed that most of the press just started 357 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: going after Blanche, noting that that alimony that was requested 358 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: was believed to be the highest ever on record. In 359 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: a response, George's lawyers chose to accuse Blanche of bleeding 360 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: George's fortune dry. One newspaper report quoted counsel as saying, quote, 361 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: Missus High's sole idea was to come to New York 362 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: and shine in society. By reason of his wife's extravagance, 363 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: his estate has dwindled to three hundred and sixty thousand dollars, 364 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: and his income is now only twenty nine thousand dollars 365 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: a year. This was in contrast to a previous number 366 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: given for George's worth of one million dollars. The judge 367 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: in the case, named Aspinall, gave the following quote on 368 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: the matter, quote, you may be absolutely certain that I 369 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: shall not allow seventy eight thousand dollars alimony to any woman. 370 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: These New York society women make me tired. They live 371 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: too high. They go to fashionable hotels and drink highballs 372 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: and smoke cigarettes instead of staying home and trying to 373 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: make their husbands happy. They ride up Fifth Avenue in 374 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: their fine automobiles with poodle dogs in their laps. And 375 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: when they are married to a poor man unfortunate enough 376 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: to have a million dollars, they come for it in 377 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: court and say their social position requires an exorbitant amount 378 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: of alimony. It will take me very little time to 379 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: decide this motion. I feel like if a judge gave 380 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: a quote like that ahead of a decision today, there 381 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: might be some problems. Gossip columns started reporting that Blanche 382 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: spent five hundred and eighty one dollars a month on 383 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: alcohol and another forty nine dollars a month on cigars. 384 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: Some even started to falsely report that George had been 385 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: the one to file for divorce, showing a full turn 386 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: of the press against missus High. There were some paper 387 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: so that offered a counter argument. The Cincinnati Post noted, 388 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: in a write up detailing Blanche's expenses, quote, nothing is 389 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: said about what the husband spent, but it is a 390 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: safe guess that if he had been trying like a 391 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: man to live simply and wholesomely, the wife would never 392 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: have been encouraged or allowed to form these ridiculous, wasteful, 393 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: and extravagant habits. The Post also says that the judge 394 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: probably should find for a lower alimony, but also that quote, 395 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: we wish that he would say something fitting about the 396 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: rich men of New York who make it a practice 397 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: to spoil the women with whom they associate. They are 398 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: the real profligates. This whole thing is very hard to 399 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: read because it's all real, sexist and weird. But in 400 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: the end, Judge Aspinall awarded Blanche just fifteen thousand dollars 401 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: a year, as well as custody of the couple's two children. 402 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: As for George, despite the seeming likelihood that he had 403 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: possibly cheated on his wife, he seemed to emerge from 404 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: the divorce with an unscathed reputation. In the years. Following 405 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the divorce settlement, High threw himself even more into his work. 406 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: Before we talked about Blanche and George's divorce, we mentioned 407 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: an incident that we said we'd return to. That was 408 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: a trip he had made with his team to New 409 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: Jersey where they excavated a Native American cemetery. During their excavation, 410 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: George and his assistants found themselves in hot water. According 411 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: to the Hudson Observer on July twenty second, nineteen fourteen, quote, 412 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: Sussex County invoked the majesty of the law this week 413 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: to stop George G. High of New York, a well 414 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: known scientist, and his laborers from digging up the skeletons 415 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: of Indians in the old Menacing burying ground in Sandytown Township. 416 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: Berson Bell, who owns the land, had sold the right 417 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: to excavate and remove the bones, and he was satisfied, 418 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: but it appears that a lot of other folks were 419 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: not so. Criminal proceedings were brought under a sanitary code, 420 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: and a Justice of the piece imposed fines ranging from 421 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: ten dollars each on the laborers to one hundred dollars 422 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: on their employer. In the Hope of stopping the sacrilege, 423 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 1: so even then people knew that this was wrong. George 424 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: appeeled those fines. He felt that if he let the 425 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: judgment stand, it was going to create a precedent for 426 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: archaeology efforts to be hampered by legal issues going forward. 427 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: He did get that ruling overturned, and he also felt 428 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: that the skeletons that he had unearthed were important, and 429 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: he sent them to the Smithsonian along with a paper 430 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: that he wrote about the excavation, undoubtedly to kind of 431 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: bolster it as something that was academically important. Nineteen fifteen 432 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: was a significant year for High died in February, which 433 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: meant he had direct access to his family money and 434 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: no longer had to go through her to get it 435 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: for his furious projects. He also went on an excavation 436 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: trip to North Carolina, where he had to do some 437 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: maneuvering to convince a landowner to let him dig up 438 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: a burial mound on his property. And George also remarried 439 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifteen to Dorothean cown Page, who went by 440 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: THEA and how the two met is reported a little 441 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: differently from source to source, but a lot of them 442 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: suggest that they met on that North Carolina dig. What's clear, though, 443 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: is that they very much shared an interest in archaeology. 444 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: The couple honeymooned by going on a dig at the 445 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: Nakuchie Mound in White County, Georgia. Hi's visions for his 446 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: collection evolved in the nineteeneens, and he made the decision 447 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: that he wanted to open a public museum in New York. 448 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: There were arguments made to him by existing institutions that 449 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: such a collection would be more effective elsewhere, perhaps tied 450 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: to those existing institutions, but High was adamant that he 451 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: wanted to give New York the resources that he had 452 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: found lacking when he first became interested in anthropology. He 453 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: wanted people to be able to go somewhere and learn 454 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: about indigenous cultures outside of academia. But to be clear, 455 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: he was envisioning this as a place for people like him, 456 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: wealthy businessmen with time and money. And a letter to 457 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: Franz Boas about it, he specifically mentions quote men in 458 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: New York that are placed as I was when discussing 459 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: the people whose interests he was hoping to serve. So 460 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen he established the High Foundation and the 461 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: Museum of the American Indian As part of this new venture, 462 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen, the collection that was on loan to 463 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania was moved from the school's museum 464 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: to its new home in New York. And while there 465 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: have been rumors over the years of some sort of 466 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: big fallout between High and the organization and they were disappointed, 467 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: to be sure, there is also plenty of correspondence between 468 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: George and the leadership of the university and its museum 469 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: that seems quite cordial and appreciative. In both directions that 470 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: was written after the fact, it truly seems that more 471 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: than anything from George's position, it was just a matter 472 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: of space finally being available for him to once again 473 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: manage it himself, though it is one hundred percent truth 474 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: the university would have rather than it stayed there. Hi 475 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: gave the university museum other artifacts in return for the 476 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: withdrawal of his collection, although they were by all estimations, 477 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: much less valuable, and at least some of them seem 478 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: to have been replicas and not original pieces. Coming up, 479 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: we'll talk about the delayed opening of High's museum and 480 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: a really reprehensible deception that he was part of. First 481 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: we will hear from the sponsors that keep stuffiness in 482 00:28:52,000 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: history class going. Once High's museum was founded, a number 483 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: of his wealthy longtime friends from New York started donating 484 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 1: their own collections to it, as well as supporting it 485 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: with financial donations. Marshall Seville became the museum's director, and 486 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: though this whole project had a great deal of support, 487 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: it took six years from the time that construction began 488 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: to when it finally opened, and that was because of 489 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: the outbreak of World War One. But in nineteen twenty two, 490 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: the Museum of the American Indian opened its doors to visitors. 491 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: While setting up the structure of his museum, George also 492 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: hired Frederick Webb Hodge, who had been at the Smithsonian, 493 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: to edit a periodical for the Museum of the American Indian, 494 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: knowing that it was important to publish scholarly works if 495 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: he wanted to have his museum taken seriously in academic circles. 496 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: One of the men that High hired was Amos E. 497 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: One Road, who was a Dakota man and a minister 498 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: who had studied at Columbia's Divinity School. Had started working 499 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: with anthropologist Allenson B. Skinner several years before High started 500 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: working on his museum, and one wrote in Skinner worked 501 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: on a series of stories about Amos's experience growing up 502 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: as a Native American. The published anthology of these stories 503 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: that Skinner was planning got shelved when Skinner died in 504 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five. That book, In Case You're Interested, was 505 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: published finally in two thousand and three under the title 506 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: Being Dakota, but the museum's publication, Indian Notes, started being 507 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: published in nineteen twenty four. As planned. The museum, of course, 508 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: took up a lot of High's time, but not so 509 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: much that he stopped mounting research trips. Hi had a 510 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: veritable army of archaeologists dispatched throughout the Americas hunting for 511 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: objects to expand the collection. But what's interesting is that 512 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: he also paid for other museums to mount expeditions, and 513 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: the trips he financed were a mix of archaeological efforts 514 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: to uncover cultural artifacts of the past and research into 515 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: contemporary cultures. In nineteen twenty six, his museum moved to 516 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: the Bronx because, just as when he had been a 517 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: private collector, George had continued to acquire more than his 518 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: space could fit. The new museum they built was larger, 519 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: and it also had a garden of indigenous herbs, and 520 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: his wife Thea oversaw that in nineteen twenty eight, George's 521 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: good fortune and running this museum took a sharp turn. First, 522 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: two of his most prominent supporters died the same week. 523 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: Hi believed there would be a provision for the museum 524 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: in their wills, and there were, but it was not 525 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: enough to keep High's work going, at least not to 526 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: the level that he had been. Following on this, the 527 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine stock market crash further damaged High's financial 528 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: standing enough that he had to make serious cutbacks. He 529 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: laid off the majority of the museum's employees, choosing to 530 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: run things himself. Eventually he would sell off pieces of 531 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: the collection to keep the building going. He did continue 532 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: to acquire items when he could. The museum wasn't really 533 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: flat broke, it was just on a much tighter budget 534 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: than it had been in its operational heyday. A decade 535 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: into the museum running with its skeleton crew, George was 536 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: contacted by the Headatsa tribe. Remember that medicine bundle we 537 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: mentioned oile back. They wanted it back, and this wasn't 538 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: a case where they were simply asking for repatriation, although 539 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: that would have been entirely within their rights. But this 540 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: was a request because the Hedatsa tribe needed their bundle back. 541 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: It was what was called a waterbuster, meaning that it 542 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: was part of their cultural practices to bring rain when 543 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: it was needed, and at that point, the land that 544 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: the Hadatsa lived on was experiencing a serious drought. Hi 545 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: didn't want to give this back. He tried to barter 546 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: for it, saying that if he could get a different 547 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: item in return, he would consider returning it. He finally acquiesced, 548 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: and there was apparently some fan unfair over returning this bundle. 549 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: But when two members of the tribe traveled to New 550 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: York for it, what they got were a couple of 551 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: loose items that had allegedly been in the bundle. They 552 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: had not been part of it, though. This is one 553 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: of those events that described very differently depending on which 554 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: biographer wrote about it. One of the earliest biographies about 555 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: high which is the jay Alden Mason one that we 556 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, It one hundred percent paints a picture of 557 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: this being a very important and momentous occasion on which 558 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: High did the right thing and the drought was lifted. 559 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: That is not true, though the actual item was eventually 560 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: repatriated to the Hidasi, but this was years and years 561 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: after this deception. Yeah, he one hundred percent knew that 562 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: he was not giving them their item back. In nineteen 563 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: thirty five, Thea died on her birthday. George had spent 564 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: twenty years with her as his constant companion and supporter, 565 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: and after her death, he chose to give up the 566 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: apartment they had lived in together and he moved into 567 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: the University Club. That move was really not suitable. George 568 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: did not like living at the club and he was lonely. 569 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty six, he remarried to Jessica Peebles, who 570 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: went by Jesse. That marriage did not have the staying 571 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: power of his match with THEA. Four years later, Jesse 572 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: filed for divorce in Nevada. Of course, that tickled me 573 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: to no end when I saw the newspaper write up 574 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this was in this within Nevada. 575 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: She went to a divorce ranch. In the fall of 576 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, George had a cerebral hemorrhage. He made 577 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: enough of a recovery that he was soon back at work, 578 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: but he was not able to keep up the schedule 579 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: that he once had, and he could only work for 580 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: a few hours at a time, and reportedly he could 581 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: only go in a couple days a week at most. 582 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: In the spring of nineteen fifty five, he had a 583 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: series of strokes, and after that he was home bound. 584 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: He died at home on January twentieth, eeteen fifty seven. 585 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: Over the course of his life, High had acquired pieces 586 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: from cultures from the southern tip of South America all 587 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: the way to the northern reaches of North America, an 588 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: estimated one million artifacts, but without him to act as 589 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: a steward, the future of this collection became unclear. He 590 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: included a stipulation in his will that some items had 591 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: to remain in New York. He also left the museum 592 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: three million dollars. That sounds like a lot, but it 593 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: was really not enough to keep things going. The museum 594 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: struggled on for decades, constantly trying to regain its footing, 595 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: until the entire collection was acquired by the Smithsonian in 596 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, and the Smithsonian used that collection to 597 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: form the National Museum of the American Indian and as 598 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: part of the legislation that approved its formation, in funding, 599 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: human remains in other articles that were acquired with highst 600 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: collection had to be repatriated, and Native Americans had to 601 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: be involved in setting up and running this museum as 602 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: a partnership. The man chosen to head up the new 603 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: entity was Rick West, who was Cheyenne. He had actually 604 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: visited Hi'es Museum in nineteen fifty six when he was 605 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: just a kid visiting New York, and according to West's account, 606 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: he found the whole thing kind of disturbing because it 607 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 1: seemed really odd to him that items belonging to Cheyenne 608 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: people were sitting in a museum in New York. In 609 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: a two thousand and four Washington Post article written by 610 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: Bob Thompson, he makes an interesting point about Hige's collection 611 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: that Holly hadn't quite considered in this way. Quote. In 612 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, when George high began seriously chasing 613 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: Indian artifacts, it was widely assumed that Indians themselves would 614 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: soon fade from the scene. Beside's an additional layer to 615 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: all the considerations to be made about a white man 616 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: collecting these artifacts. We've talked about the cultural genocide that 617 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: had been part of the story of colonization and indigenous 618 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: cultures in North America many times. The thought that George 619 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: Gustav High saw it happening and perhaps thought he was 620 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: preserving something that was ephemeral is an interesting one. This 621 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: has also come up in other episodes about Indigenous history 622 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,720 Speaker 1: and Indigenous people in the like nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Yeah, 623 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: and he did recognize that some of these cultures and 624 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: tribes were waning, and there was kind of a clock 625 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: ticking in terms of how long they might be around. 626 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: But that doesn't really mean that he was doing this 627 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: work from an altruistic point of view. That's evidenced by 628 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: his treatment of the members of the Hidatsa tribe when 629 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: they asked for their property back. George was once described 630 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: by a colleague as someone who quote couldn't conscientiously leave 631 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: a reservation until its entire population was practically naked. He 632 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: wanted everything he could get his hands on, and that 633 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: same colleague, who was quoted anonymously, also said of High, quote, 634 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: he didn't give a hang about in individually, and he 635 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: never seemed to have heard about their problems in present 636 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: day society. George didn't buy Indian stuff in order to 637 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: study the life of a people, because it never crossed 638 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: his mind that that's what they were. He bought all 639 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: those objects solely in order to own them for what 640 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: purposes He never said so. While the idea of George 641 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: High collecting these items to preserve information about a vanishing 642 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: culture is certainly appealing, and on some level he might 643 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: have thought he was doing that, but it's a lot 644 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,479 Speaker 1: more complicated than that. In twenty sixteen, John Hayworth wrote 645 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: an article for American Indian, which is the Smithsonian National 646 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: Museum of the American Indian magazine, and which he talked 647 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: about the legacy of the work George Gustav Hi did 648 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: in his life. This was part of an article for 649 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: the museum's hundredth birthday. And the mixed bag of High 650 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: is that he doesn't seem to have been exactly sensitive 651 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: to the cultures from which he was collecting. As we mentioned, 652 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: he wanted to possess their items, but he didn't it 653 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: really seem especially interested in truly knowing about them as 654 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: a people. It was kind of like facts on a page, 655 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: but his work and collections in the hands of Native 656 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: American curators have led to a much deeper understanding of 657 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: a lot of those cultures. Another way, his influence is 658 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: still impacting anthropology. Is difficult to quantify, but there were 659 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: a number of people who, because of their experience working 660 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: on digs and research trips that he sponsored, got high 661 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: ranking jobs in museums where they surely impacted the direction 662 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,879 Speaker 1: of anthropological research for the United States. Yeah, when he 663 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: let go of all of his staff, where do you 664 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: think all those people went to other museums? And even 665 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: people that had never worked for him as staff but 666 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: were kind of like on contracts with him that went 667 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: on their resume because it was really impressive at the time. 668 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: And now those are the people that were making policy 669 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: in other places. So I feel like we can never 670 00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: fully appreciate how much we're still sifting out his coach 671 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: to anthropology versus what would have happened if it were 672 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: strictly academic. It's a tricky and fascinating one. He's an 673 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: interesting figure. Again, like hard to unpick all of the things, 674 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll talk more about that. And behind the scenes, 675 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: I have a really funny to me listener mail, O 676 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: good from our listener Laura, who may pronounce it Lara, 677 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: hold on, let me check she doesn't say. I don't 678 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: know if she pronounces it Laura or Lara, but suret ty, 679 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy. I just listened to your episode about 680 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: Ruby Payne Scott. I got way behind during the early 681 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: days of the pandemic when I no longer had a commute, 682 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: which is my prime listening time, and I am slowly 683 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: getting caught up. Listen. No shame in that I have 684 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: the same problem with everything audiobooks and podcasts. The discussion 685 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: in that episode about Paine Scott keeping her marriage a 686 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: secret reminded me of one of my favorite stories about 687 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: my paternal grandmother, who was born in eighteen ninety one. 688 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: She was a school teacher who continued teaching after she 689 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: was married in nineteen ten, even though most school districts 690 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: in New York State prohibited married women from teaching. In 691 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: January nineteen fourteen, she enrolled in a teacher training institute 692 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: for additional training, which would allow her to have longer 693 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: lasting teaching credentials, but the institute's policy was that only 694 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: single women could be admitted, so she signed her name 695 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: without a miss or missus in front of it, and 696 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: just let people assume she was a miss even though 697 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: she went by her married name. Her plan was to 698 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: complete the training in the fall, but she discovered over 699 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: the summer that she was pregnant, so she informed the 700 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 1: institute that she had to take a break, although she 701 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: did not reveal the reason, but would return later to 702 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: complete the training. She wrote an autobiography for the family, 703 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: of which I have a copy, and one of the 704 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: things that stands out to me about it is how 705 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: some of her thoughts come across as if they were 706 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: being written now. For example, when writing about my father's 707 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: birth in January of nineteen fifteen, she notes that she 708 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: received a baby and not a teaching certificate that month, 709 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: and while she was very happy to have the baby, 710 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: she still wanted the teaching certificate and vowed to get it, 711 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 1: which she did. My subject line, which is where did 712 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: you get that baby? Reverse is something that occurred after 713 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: my father was born. My grandmother was writing on the 714 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: trolley in Binghamton, New York, sitting with my father in 715 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: her lap. She was spotted by an education higher up. 716 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: My memory was that it was a superintendent, but having 717 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: reviewed her autobiography before writing this email. I think it 718 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: may have been someone connected with the Teacher Training Institute. 719 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: The man, noticing the resemblance between my grandmother and dad, 720 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: asked a shock miss, where did you get that baby, 721 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: and my grandmother simply replied, Oh, I picked him up 722 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 1: on Chestnut Street, which is where they lived. I'm the 723 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: kid from my dad's second marriage, so I'm actually a 724 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: gen xer like you two. I wrote you once before 725 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: about my maternal great grandparents who had trained to be 726 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: nurses under John Harvey Kellogg, which, much to my surprise, 727 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: ended up on listener mail. So a second time. But 728 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: I love this story. Like nobody told a lie nice, 729 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: they just carefully withheld information. I love that when we 730 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: got it, I picked him a bunch of us. Nut 731 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: Street sounds great. Thank you so much for that email. 732 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: It tickled me to no end, and I love that 733 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: it's a little subversive without being in any way evil. 734 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: If you have fun stories or anything else you'd like 735 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: to write to us about, you can do that at 736 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,760 Speaker 1: History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also subscribe 737 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you 738 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History 739 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 740 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 741 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.