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Speaker 1: It's September twentieth, nineteen sixty three. A man in a

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Speaker 1: dark suit walks into a post office in al Paso, Texas,

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Speaker 1: emails three registered letters, then strolls across the street and

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Speaker 1: enters the State National Bank. He approaches the teller and

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Speaker 1: asks for one hundred dollars in American Express travelers checks.

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Speaker 1: As the teller works on his request, the man in

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Speaker 1: the dark suit pulls out a forty five caliber revolver

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Speaker 1: and fires two shots into the ceiling of the bank.

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Speaker 1: As people duck for cover. The man casually exits the bank.

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Speaker 1: An off duty police officer named Jim Bundron, who is

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Speaker 1: in the vicinity. Here's the shots.

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Speaker 2: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 3: I was on my day off, that's Officer Bundron.

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Speaker 4: I heard the shots. Everybody was just, you know, just shocked. Right,

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Speaker 4: says where is he and what's he wearing? And he

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Speaker 4: said in a blue suit, white shirt, red tie. Evidently

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Speaker 4: he had run out of the bank with a gun

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Speaker 4: in his hand. And I know he couldn't have gotten

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Speaker 4: that far ahead of it, right, And this car pulls

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Speaker 4: out of the alley. Then I could see his face

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Speaker 4: was flushed. I could see the white shirt red tie

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Speaker 4: and I just I drew and he didn't say anything.

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Speaker 1: Officer Bunden arrests him, and as he's being handcuffed, the

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Speaker 1: man in the dark suit invites the officer to look

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Speaker 1: into the trunk of his car. The officer carefully opens

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Speaker 1: the trunk and in it he finds a bizarre collection

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Speaker 1: of cameras, photos, and documents.

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Speaker 2: He had a real small minulti camera I think in

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Speaker 2: the loser probably called a spy. Came right and he

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Speaker 2: had his own processing with him. I searched his car

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Speaker 2: and he had pictures of top secret restricted areas, pictures

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Speaker 2: of inside of compounds, had a lot of pictures of

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Speaker 2: dead bodies.

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Speaker 5: The man in the dark suit is Richard case Nagel.

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Speaker 3: That's Dick Russell. Richard case Nagel is a former US

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Speaker 3: Army veteran, three times Purple Heart recipient, intelligence officer and

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Speaker 3: CIA operative.

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Speaker 5: Nagel's arrested and charged with attempted bank robbery.

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Speaker 4: And then there is a preliminary here. I sat and

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Speaker 4: just talked to him. It's like you and I were talking,

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Speaker 4: and he says, well on a graduate company. He says,

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Speaker 4: I really don't want to be in Dallas. I said, well,

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Speaker 4: what do you mean by that? He says, you'll want

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Speaker 4: him there.

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Speaker 1: Nagel was arrested on September twentieth, nineteen sixty three, two

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Speaker 1: months before President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas.

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Speaker 3: This is who killed JFK Sixty years later? What can

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Speaker 3: we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history?

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Speaker 3: And why does it still matter today? I'm your host,

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Speaker 3: Solidad O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: Now, last episode, we took you through Oswald's bizarre return

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Speaker 1: to the United States. We met his CIA connected babysitters,

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Speaker 1: George de Moornshield and Ruth Payne, who were tasked with

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Speaker 1: looking out for him. We discussed the time that Oswald

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Speaker 1: spent in New Orleans, where he was arrested for handing

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Speaker 1: out pro castro leaflets. We also introduced you to the

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Speaker 1: CIA's head of counter intelligence, James Jesus Angleton and his

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Speaker 1: Wilderness of mirrors. Angleton was known as the Poet's Spy,

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Speaker 1: and he was obsessed with removing Castro from Cuba. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's important to keep all that in mind as.

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Speaker 6: We move forward.

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Speaker 3: So what comes next?

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Speaker 6: Okay?

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Speaker 1: In New Orleans in the summer of nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: while handing out the leaflets for the Fair Play for

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Speaker 1: Cuba Committee, Oswald gets into a fight with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of anti Castro activists. He's arrested, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: he does is request to speak to an FBI agent.

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Speaker 1: On September twenty fifth, the White House announces that the

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Speaker 1: President will be visiting Dallas in November. Then we start

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Speaker 1: to see a swell of covert activity. Chess pieces are

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Speaker 1: being moved around the board. Richard case Nagel, the man

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Speaker 1: in the dark suit who shot two bullets into the

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Speaker 1: ceiling of the bank. He's going to give us insight

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Speaker 1: into how all this covert activity will lead us to

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Speaker 1: a history changing event.

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Speaker 3: So Dick explain to us who is Richard K. S.

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Speaker 7: Nagel.

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Speaker 5: Nagel was a decorated veteran, a Bronze Star medal winner,

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Speaker 5: and a former intelligence officer. As we mentioned earlier, he

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Speaker 5: first met Oswald in Japan, where they were tasked to

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Speaker 5: try to recruit a Soviet officer to defect.

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Speaker 3: So how did you firm encounter Nakel?

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Speaker 5: I first heard about him from another JFK researcher in

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Speaker 5: the nineteen seventies. I was intrigued hearing about this Bronze

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Speaker 5: Star medal recipient that claimed to have known Oswald, So

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Speaker 5: I did some research. I went to El Paso, where

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Speaker 5: he was arrested for the so called bank robbery. I

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Speaker 5: went through the newspaper and court files.

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Speaker 6: There.

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Speaker 5: There were both Secret Service and FBI files saying that

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Speaker 5: he requested quote to speak to a Secret Service agent

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Speaker 5: about an urgent matter the afternoon of the assassination. I

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Speaker 5: knew I'd stumbled onto something, so I found out where

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Speaker 5: he lived. I traveled to Manhattan Beach in southern California,

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Speaker 5: and I just knocked on the door and this shadowy

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Speaker 5: figure with a scar across his face opens the door

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Speaker 5: and asked me what I wanted. I told him I'd

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Speaker 5: come all the way from New York to interview him.

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Speaker 5: After an uncomfortable silence, he let me in and once

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Speaker 5: we sat down, I asked if I could tape him,

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Speaker 5: and he looked at me and said no, but I'm

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Speaker 5: going to tape you. So he turned on his tape

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Speaker 5: recorder started to talk, and he spoke cryptically, but it

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Speaker 5: was about knowing Oswald and that had been involved in

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Speaker 5: the assassination. For some reason, he seemed to trust me,

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Speaker 5: so we agreed to meet again, this time at a

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Speaker 5: CD dive bar because he was aware that his movements

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Speaker 5: were being tracked, and he was there that he told

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Speaker 5: me that what he knew about the assassination had ruined

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Speaker 5: his life.

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Speaker 3: The two continued to meet for fifteen years, and eventually,

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Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety two, Dick published his eight hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty four page book about Nagel, called The Man Who

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Speaker 3: Knew Too Much. So take me back to where this

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Speaker 3: all started.

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Speaker 5: For Nagel in Japan in nineteen fifty seven and nineteen

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Speaker 5: fifty eight, Nagel was working for a top secret army

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Speaker 5: intelligence unit that was closely connected to the CIA. It

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Speaker 5: was called Field Operations Intelligence, or FOI.

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Speaker 3: The American public didn't know that FOI existed until Nagel

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Speaker 3: described its mission in a nineteen seventy four court document.

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Speaker 3: He said it was quote a covert extension of CIA

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Speaker 3: policy and activity designed to conceal the true nature of

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Speaker 3: CIA objectives. He then went on to say, quote, in

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Speaker 3: the event I was apprehended, killed, or compromised during the

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Speaker 3: performance of my illegal FOI duties, the Department of the

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Speaker 3: Army would publicly disclaim any knowledge of or connection with

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Speaker 3: such duties.

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Speaker 5: In the early sixties, when Nagel came back to the

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Speaker 5: United States, Cuba had become the focus of American intelligence.

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Speaker 5: The CIA gave Nagel the assignment of renouncing his American

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Speaker 5: citizenship and approaching Soviet intelligence to offer his services, much

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Speaker 5: like they'd done with Oswald, and the Soviets then recruited

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Speaker 5: him for their own intelligence.

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Speaker 3: Gathering, so he became a double agent.

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Speaker 5: Correct The Soviets gave him two missions, one penetrate a

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Speaker 5: violent group of anti Castro Cuban exiles and two keep

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Speaker 5: an eye on Lee Harvey Oswald, who had just returned

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Speaker 5: to America.

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Speaker 3: And were those two missions related.

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Speaker 5: At first, there was no relationship between Oswald and that

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Speaker 5: particular group of Cuban exiles, But in the summer of

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Speaker 5: nineteen sixty three, Nagel went to New Orleans and that's

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Speaker 5: where he was reconnected with Oswald. He learned that Oswald

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Speaker 5: was being brought into plans that he didn't fully understand,

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Speaker 5: and that plots to assassinate Kennedy were being discussed. Oswald

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Speaker 5: was being primed to be the fall guy, but the Soviets,

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Speaker 5: who had become fully aware of these plans. Didn't want

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Speaker 5: Kennedy killed, and they didn't want Oswald to be blamed.

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Speaker 5: They knew it would be pinned on them or Cuba

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Speaker 5: and could trigger a nuclear war.

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Speaker 3: So what did the Soviets want Nagel to do?

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Speaker 5: They wanted him to take Oswald out.

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Speaker 3: You mean to kill him?

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Speaker 5: Yes, they wanted him to take Oswald out.

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Speaker 3: You mean to kill him?

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 5: Nagel was trapped. His loyalty was to the United States.

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Speaker 5: He knew he couldn't do it, but he also knew

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Speaker 5: that if he ignored the orders from the KGB, they

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Speaker 5: would take him out.

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Speaker 3: Talk about between a rock and a hard place. So

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Speaker 3: what does he do?

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Speaker 5: First? He tried to warn Oswald that he was being used, So.

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Speaker 3: Walk me through that. How did he warn him?

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Speaker 5: He meets with Oswald in Jackson Square in New Orleans

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Speaker 5: and tries to explain to him that the group of

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Speaker 5: Cuban exiles he's been associated with are not who they

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Speaker 5: say they are, and that he is being used by

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Speaker 5: extreme fascist elements to attempt an assassination on Kennedy in

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Speaker 5: order to justify invading Cuba. Nagel told me that when

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Speaker 5: Oswald heard this, he was quote visibly shaken, but denied

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Speaker 5: there'd been any discussion about killing Kennedy and just shrugged

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Speaker 5: him off. Nagel knew that when he he couldn't convince Oswald,

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Speaker 5: his life would be at risk, so he figured the

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Speaker 5: safest place for him was to be in prison. He

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Speaker 5: told me that just before shooting up the bank, he

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Speaker 5: mailed a registered letter to Jay ed Garhover detailing what

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Speaker 5: he knew about the assassination plot, and sent another warning

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Speaker 5: letter to his handlers in the CIA. Then, to back

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Speaker 5: up his story, he placed a notebook in his car

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Speaker 5: that contained information that only someone on the inside would

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Speaker 5: have had. Several of the notations were virtually identical to

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Speaker 5: what the authorities later found among Oswalt's possessions. They both

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Speaker 5: had small Minolta spy cameras, they both had leaflets for

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Speaker 5: the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and they both had

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Speaker 5: the same unlisted phone number for the Cuban embassy in

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Speaker 5: Mexico City.

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Speaker 3: Did getting arrested save him?

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Speaker 5: It kept him alive for a while, but it ended

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Speaker 5: up ruining his life. He was in prison for four

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Speaker 5: and a half years, part of which he spent in

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Speaker 5: a psych ward. That's how they began to build out

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Speaker 5: an nerve that he was nuts.

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Speaker 3: So, as a person who's interviewing him because you're writing

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Speaker 3: your book, how do you navigate that question of his credibility?

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Speaker 3: How do you decide you know what's true?

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Speaker 5: First you assess the existing evidence, which means Nagle's notebook,

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Speaker 5: the fact that he had an ID card for Oswald

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Speaker 5: showing up in his lawyer's files, and the newspaper accounts

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Speaker 5: of his trial in El Paso where he tried to

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Speaker 5: bring up Oswald and the assassination. Second, interview as many

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Speaker 5: people as possible who knew him, and I found many

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Speaker 5: who attested to his background and credibility. A couple of these,

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Speaker 5: Jim Garrison and attorney Bernard Finsterwald Junior, told me Nagel

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Speaker 5: was the most important living witness to what happened on

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Speaker 5: November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. And I realized that

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Speaker 5: the powers behind the cover up were determined to marginalize

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Speaker 5: him first paint him as crazy. Then after he got

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Speaker 5: out of prison, the CIA tracked his movements and there

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Speaker 5: were a number of attempts on his life.

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Speaker 3: How long were you in contact with him?

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Speaker 5: I met with him periodically for more than twenty years,

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Speaker 5: and during that time, I saw a man who was torn.

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Speaker 5: He wanted to come clean, to reveal what he knew,

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Speaker 5: but he knew that if he told everything, he'd be killed.

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Speaker 5: So he would drop hints to steer me in the

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Speaker 5: right direction.

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Speaker 3: Like deep Throat in Watergate.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: And at one point he told me that if anything

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Speaker 5: happened to him, there was a record of everything he

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Speaker 5: knew that he kept stored in various locations and that

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Speaker 5: only certain people were aware of And he believed that's

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Speaker 5: what kept him alive.

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Speaker 3: So he did manage to stay alive.

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Speaker 6: For a while.

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Speaker 5: Then, in nineteen ninety five, when the Assassination Record's Review

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Speaker 5: Board was doing its investigation, they heard me talk about

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Speaker 5: Nagel at a conference and decided that they wanted to

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Speaker 5: interview him on the data. Subpoena arrived at his apartment,

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Speaker 5: Nagel was found dead.

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Speaker 3: So you believe that Nagel was killed before he could talk.

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Speaker 5: Let me answer that this way. When I called his

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Speaker 5: son to tell him about his father, his son told

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Speaker 5: me that his apartment had just been broken into and

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Speaker 5: was ransacked. Then he told me about his key his

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Speaker 5: dad had left in his apartment to a storage unit

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Speaker 5: in Tucson, and that in that storage unit was a

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Speaker 5: purple trunk which contained a material his father had kept

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Speaker 5: hidden for years. When he heard what had happened to

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Speaker 5: his dad, Nagel's son flew to Tucson to check the

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Speaker 5: storage unit. He opened it up, looked inside, and the

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Speaker 5: only thing missing was the purple trunk. So was Nagel

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Speaker 5: killed before he could talk?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I believe he was.

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Speaker 6: And he wasn't the only one.

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Speaker 3: What happened to Nagel happened to others.

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Speaker 1: Remember George de mornshieldt Oswald's babysitter in Dallas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you said. The last time he talked about the

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Speaker 3: assassination was in an interview he did with a journalist

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy seven. What happened after that?

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Speaker 1: A little over a decade after testifying to the Warren

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Speaker 1: Commission that Oswald had acted alone, De Mornshield decided he

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Speaker 1: was going to tell the truth about what he knew.

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Speaker 1: So he wrote a manuscript titled I'm a Patsy. I'm

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Speaker 1: a Patsy, which was later published posthumously as a book

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Speaker 1: titled Lee Harvey Oswald As I knew him.

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Speaker 5: When de Mornshield started to go public. The House Select

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Speaker 5: Committee decided to summon him. De Morshild was living in

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Speaker 5: Florida at the time, not far from Gayton Phonsie.

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Speaker 3: Remember Gayton Phonsie is a journalist who challenged Arlen Spector

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Speaker 3: on the single bullet theory. At the time, Phonsie was

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Speaker 3: working as an investigator for the committee.

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Speaker 1: Fonsie goes to De Moornshild's house to talk to him.

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Speaker 1: He isn't home, so he leaves his business card with

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Speaker 1: Demarnshild's adult daughter. He tells her he'll be calling later

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Speaker 1: that night to set a time for a formal questioning.

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Speaker 1: And so when de Marshall arrives home, his daughter tells

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Speaker 1: him about Phonsie's visit gives him fan He's business card.

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Speaker 1: The Mornschell puts the card in his pocket, goes upstairs,

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Speaker 1: and the next morning he's found dead with a bullet

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Speaker 1: in his head, with Pansie's business card still in his pocket.

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Speaker 5: They said he'd committed suicide, but his wife told me

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Speaker 5: it was definitely not a suicide, and Nagel told me

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Speaker 5: the same thing, that he was murdered before he could testify.

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Speaker 1: There was also mob boss Johnny Rizselli right before he

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Speaker 1: was supposed to testify, he was found chopped up, stuffed

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Speaker 1: into an oil drum, and dumped into Biscayne Bay. There

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Speaker 1: were a number of people who died mysteriously. Within three

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Speaker 1: years after the Warren Commission report was released, eighteen key

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Speaker 1: witnesses died of either a heart attack, an accident, or suicide.

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Speaker 1: Something that has always fascinated me is the people who

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Speaker 1: were tangentially involved but managed to survive, like Ruth Payne.

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Speaker 3: Like Ruth Payne, You'll remember Ruth Payne as one of

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Speaker 3: the CIA connected people who became close with the Oswald

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Speaker 3: family when they returned to the US.

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Speaker 1: On September twenty fifth, the White House formally announces that

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Speaker 1: the President will be taking a tour through Texas, stopping

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Speaker 1: at Dallas on November twenty second. That same week, Marina

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Speaker 1: accepts Ruth Payne's invitation to have her and her baby

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Speaker 1: move in with her in Dallas. Then, in early October,

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Speaker 1: six weeks before the assassination, Oswald returns to Dallas, takes

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Speaker 1: a room at a boarding house, and gets a job

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Speaker 1: in a building position directly along what will be President

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's motorcave route. And who do you think helped him

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Speaker 1: get that job. Ruth Painne, Ruth Payne.

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Speaker 3: There are so many pieces to this picture.

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Speaker 1: And sixty years later, pieces are still falling into place.

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Speaker 3: So Rob, where do you go from here? Nearly five

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Speaker 3: thousand records remain withheld. Do you think that in those

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Speaker 3: records is one piece of evidence that details the whole plot?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 6: I don't, I really I don't.

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Speaker 5: The CIA most likely destroyed anything. It would be obviously

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Speaker 5: groundbreaking decades ago.

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Speaker 3: So then what you're both saying is that in all

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Speaker 3: the remaining records, there's no smoking gun.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything left that would be considered

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Speaker 1: a smoking gun the way we think of it. The

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Speaker 1: closest thing we have to a smoking gun is a

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Speaker 1: document that the Pentagon kept secret for almost forty years.

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Speaker 1: This document outlined a plan called Operation Northwoods.

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Speaker 3: The Joint chiefs of Staff drafted Operation Northwoods in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty two. It remained a secret until decades later, when

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Speaker 3: it was quietly declassified in compliance with the JFK Records Act.

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Speaker 3: But even after the document was declassified, the plan didn't

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Speaker 3: reach the public until two thousand and one, when the

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Speaker 3: investigative reporter James Bamford revealed the full details in his

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Speaker 3: book Body of Secrets. He calls Operation Northwoods quote what

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Speaker 3: may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the

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Speaker 3: US government. Here's Jefferson Morley.

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Speaker 7: Operation Northwoods is one of the most significant revelations about

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Speaker 7: the JFK assassination to come out in the last twenty

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Speaker 7: five years.

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Speaker 1: Operation Northwoods pose this question, what if something were to

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Speaker 1: happen that would convince the American public that the US

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Speaker 1: had to invade Cuba, something that would force America's hand.

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Speaker 7: Well, stage a violent incident on a prominent target in

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Speaker 7: the United States, and we'll all arrange for it to

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Speaker 7: look like Castro did it. North Woods was what people

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Speaker 7: in the intelligence business call a pretext operation, where you

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Speaker 7: create a pretext for an action, or sometimes called a

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Speaker 7: false flag operation.

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Speaker 1: When you hear the terms false flag or conspiracy theory,

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Speaker 1: you think of people wearing tinfoil hats. But the US

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Speaker 1: government has had a history of false flag operations. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety eight, the sinking of the USS Maine got

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Speaker 1: us into the Spanish American War.

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Speaker 3: The USS Maine was a US battleship that mysteriously exploded

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Speaker 3: in Havana, Cuba in eighteen ninety eight. Remember the main

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Speaker 3: was the famous rallying cry after the press claim that

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Speaker 3: Spain was to blame for the explosion which killed two

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Speaker 3: hundred and sixty eight sailors. When the government declared war

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Speaker 3: on Spain, they had the overwhelming support from the American public,

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Speaker 3: and that's how the Spanish American War started.

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Speaker 1: There was also the firing on US ships in the

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Speaker 1: Gulf of Tonkin in August of nineteen sixty four, which

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Speaker 1: got US into the Vietnam War, and in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three, the assertion that Iraq had weapons of mass

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Speaker 1: destruction was used to justify the invasion of Iraq. False

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Speaker 1: Flags and disinformation can be very effective tools to rally

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Speaker 1: public support. This is in the actual Operation Northwoods document.

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Speaker 3: Here's what it says. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have

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Speaker 3: considered the attached memorandum for the pretexts which would provide

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Speaker 3: justification for US military intervention in Cuba.

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Speaker 7: The north Woods plans were very detailed. Will fake the

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Speaker 7: hijacking of a plane, and we'll take the plane somewhere

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Speaker 7: and we'll say that Castro did it understand?

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Speaker 1: People who would die on that plane would be American citizens.

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Speaker 5: This phrase is actually written into the north Woods plan.

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Speaker 5: Quote casualty lists in the US newspapers would cause a

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Speaker 5: helpful wave of national indignation.

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Speaker 3: Basically killing American citizens. That's astounding.

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Speaker 1: A hijacked plane wasn't the only option. Operation Northwoods lists

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Speaker 1: eleven other ideas for quote well coordinated incidents that would

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Speaker 1: look credible, including sinking ships and burning aircrafts. There's one

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Speaker 1: more part that I'd like you to read.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Here's what it says. The desired result from the

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Speaker 3: execution of this plan would be to place the United

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Speaker 3: States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from

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Speaker 3: a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba, and to develop

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Speaker 3: an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in

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Speaker 3: the Western Hemisphere.

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Speaker 1: Operation Northwoods was kept hidden from the Warrant Commission and

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Speaker 1: the House Select Committee. It was only declassified in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven.

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Speaker 3: Did Kennedy know about Operation Northwoods?

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Speaker 6: Kennedy knew about it.

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Speaker 3: What was Kennedy's response?

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Speaker 7: He rejected it in pretty brusque, almost rude terms.

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Speaker 1: But on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, a spectacular

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Speaker 1: attack on a US target occurred and the immediate response

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Speaker 1: was to blame Cuba. November twenty second, the day President

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Speaker 1: Kennedy was murdered.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying the plan that President Kennedy rejected was

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Speaker 3: the plan they used to kill him.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: It was a violent act against the prominent American target,

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Speaker 1: and they had their allegedly pro Castro assassin, Lee Harvey

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Speaker 1: Oswald to take the blame.

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Speaker 7: And so that's what happens. Within hours of Kennedy's assassination,

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Speaker 7: Oswald is arrested and CIA propaganda assets go to work

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Speaker 7: to link him immediately to the Castro government, and those

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Speaker 7: efforts are quite successful. We have the headlines the next day,

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Speaker 7: pro Castro marksman kills the President, pro Cuban assassin.

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Speaker 3: Robert Blakey, former Chief counsel and staff director of the

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Speaker 3: House Select Committee on Assassinations, told us something similar.

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Speaker 8: If what happened is what I think happened, I think

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Speaker 8: that Lee Harvey Oswell was developed as a false flag assassiny.

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Speaker 3: On the next episode of Who Killed JFK.

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Speaker 5: President Kennedy had alienated much of the US establishments by

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Speaker 5: the time he was killed in Dallas.

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Speaker 3: We looked directly at our three main suspects.

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Speaker 8: That Miami Cia Field Office is more or less the

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Speaker 8: puppeteers of this whole operation.

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Speaker 7: I asked my mom where's Papa, and she said he's

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Speaker 7: in Dallas on business.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you there's no way in hell that it

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Speaker 2: could not have been a conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: Who killed JFK is hosted by Rob Reiner and me

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Speaker 3: Solidad O'Brien and Our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner,

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Speaker 3: Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman, and Met O'Brien. Our

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Speaker 3: writer is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. Our

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00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 3: story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior

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Speaker 3: producer is Julie Pinneo. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell,

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Speaker 3: Michelle Goldfein, and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash,

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Speaker 3: Julie Pignero, and Marcus de Lauro. Our project manager is

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Speaker 3: Carol Klein. Our associate producer is emilse Kiros. Mixing, mastering

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Speaker 3: and sound design by Ben la Julier. Research and fact

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Speaker 3: checking by Girl Friday and emilse Kiros. Archival audio in

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Speaker 3: this episode thanks to the Assassination Archives and Research Center

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Speaker 3: and Dick Russell. Business Affairs by Henan Nadea and Jonathan Furman.

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Speaker 3: Our consulting producer is Razanne Galliini. Recorded in part at

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Speaker 3: CDM Studio and Fourth Street Recording Studio. Show logo by

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Speaker 3: Lucy Kintanilla. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arsay and

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