1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: We have a very exciting announcement. I Saw What You 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Did is going live for one show in Atlanta. 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: That's right Thursday, November seventh, at seven thirty pm in Atlanta, 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: Georgia at the Tara Theater. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: We will be discussing a film. We will be doing 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: a little intro banter between Milli and I, and we're 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: going to have a chance to do a Q and 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: A And. 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: If you like games and loud laughter, we'll be doing 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: that too. 11 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: Come through see I Saw What You Did live on 12 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Thursday November seventh at the Tara Theater in Atlanta, Georgia. 13 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: For ticket information, go to our socials that's I Saw 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: pod on Instagram, X Blue Sky and Facebook. 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: Be there, don't be square, be round and soft and 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: at our show. 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: Hey, hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: What You Did. My name is Millie to. 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Jericho Daniel Henderson, and. 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 2: This is a film podcast. But sometimes we talk about 21 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: other things. Yeah, frequently, frequently, especially at the top. 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: Is that is that what's on the agenda for today? Yeah? 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: Said that like. 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: Bullet point one. Talk about my feelings? Oh yay, No, 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: we will talk. We will talk about feelings today. I 26 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: think this entire episode will be about feelings. 27 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: In one way or another. It will be for sure, 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: for sure. 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: I got a couple of messages from our episode that 30 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: aired a while back about poetry. 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: And now people are sending me poetry to read. 33 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: That's so nice. 34 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, very sweet, very sweet. But a lot of people 35 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: uh being like, oh, oh, it's cool that you didn't 36 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: delete the intro to that episode that you thought you might, 37 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: because I don't know, I don't know what we were 38 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: talking about. I think it was just like sort of 39 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: talking about womanhood and aging and poetry. And then I 40 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: caught myself saying that, and I was like, man, this 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: is a bummer. We should just delete this, and you 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: were like, no, don't. So whoever wrote in and said 43 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: they were glad we didn't do. 44 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: It, it was me for my fake my fake email 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: account here. 46 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: Burner Instagram account, which we both have. 47 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: I put that fencetead of good use. I created another 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: one just to respond to you. Well, listen, I've got 49 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: above that. 50 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: I think you should have different fake instagrams for different purposes. 51 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: I mean, one is complaining about people's podcasts. The other 52 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: is signing up for waiting trying to win sweepstakes on 53 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: different Instagram counts. 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: Are why aren't there more sweep steaks? Where did that go? 55 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: I feel like there's too many sweep steaks. 56 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: I don't see any sweep stakes in my day to 57 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: day travels on Instagram. 58 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: Really, I feel like there's always a thing that said, 59 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: you know, hey, when this whatever it is, rice cooker 60 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: or something, all you have to do is follow our 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: Instagram account, follow the Instagram accounts of five other people, 62 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: tag ten people, post a picture of you with the 63 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: rice cooker, which is like, I don't even have one yet, 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: So how am I supposed to do that? You know, 65 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: go out there and put up flyers that you've hand 66 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: drew for our rice cooker. There's just like a lot 67 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: of steps, and so I'm like, man, like, I. 68 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: Feel good about how well crafted apparently my Instagram is 69 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: because I don't ever see any of that shit. I 70 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: follow cats, I follow artists, I follow people who are 71 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: like making weird art, and my actual friends and my 72 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: actual friends are not doing any sweep steaks. So I 73 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: got to branch out maybe a little bit and get 74 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: some sweepstakes offers. 75 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is that my public facing Instagram 76 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: is a mess. I follow a lot of people, like 77 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 2: it's like I follow I mean, you know, I'm just 78 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: hit and follow on whomever seems interesting, and you know, 79 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: people that I'm friends with and businesses and famous some 80 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: famous people whatever. But then my fence to account is 81 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: very highly curated in that way that you've talked about, 82 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 2: is that it's like poetry accounts and art galleries and 83 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: a couple friends. 84 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's smart. I had to. This is 85 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: years ago now, but I started archiving my Instagram every year. 86 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: I only live. I will only leave up to ten 87 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: photos for the whole year, and then I archive everything else. 88 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: But I also unfollowed a bunch of people. You know 89 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: what really helped I went through this possibly cruel, but 90 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: I went through all of my muted accounts, like because 91 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: sometimes I'll mute people because I'm like, all right, they're 92 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: on like a press junket and they're just posting too 93 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: much about their thing, and like I want them to 94 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: do it, but I just don't want to see it 95 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: all the time. Sometimes I mute people because I'm just like, 96 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: I don't know why I followed. If I have someone 97 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: on mute for over a year, I unfollow them. 98 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's an interesting rule. 99 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just like, it's just I'm clearly not this 100 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: is not for me. There was someone I went through 101 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: recently and looked at that list, and there's someone who 102 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to in actual years. We were very 103 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: tentative friends to begin with, and then I looked at 104 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: their account and I'm like, oh, you got married and 105 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: had a whole ass baby and I didn't know, So 106 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: it's time to unfollow. 107 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like unfollow is such 108 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: a huge statement that I'm I don't know, maybe I should, 109 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: maybe I should rethink this. I don't unfollow because I 110 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: feel like it's it's so divisive, Like I'm like, what's 111 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: the you know, what's the harmon just muting forever kind 112 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: of thing? It's like, would I rather just mute forever 113 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: than deal with the aggravation of somebody potentially calling me 114 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: out for unfollowing them? Right? 115 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I understand that fully. Yeah, I think I'm 116 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: just I'm not very sensitive to it because I don't mind. 117 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: I don't mind it in the other way, like if 118 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: someone follows me, I'm just like whatever. 119 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel that way too. That's interesting because when 120 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: I find out that I've been unfollowed, I don't really 121 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: I think about it for like maybe a second, and 122 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, who cares? Yeah, sometimes like people get 123 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: weird about, you know, just sort of like I don't know, 124 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: like the rules of the internet, which are just like 125 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: completely fake to me, Like you shouldn't have you shouldn't 126 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 2: be following more people than you follow, Like you shouldn't 127 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: be following more people that follow you. I'm like, what 128 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: does that mean? Like you're you're a lame person if 129 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: you have a million followers and you follow a million 130 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: point one people, Like there's some kind of thing there. 131 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel like that's fake. 132 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: But I can't get behind this arbitrary shit. And I 133 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: still firmly believe that my social media is for me. 134 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: I can do whatever I want, and it's all about 135 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: what you want to see or engage with. So who 136 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: fucking cares? Why would you ask someone about what they're 137 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: choosing to see and engage with. That's weird to me. 138 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on right now. This is 139 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: going back to the earlier point of like something's happening 140 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: in the world right now, because I swear to God, 141 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: I have gotten so many messages from people in my 142 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: past recently read that I'm like, is there something happening, Like, 143 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: what is happening in the world that now, all of 144 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: a sudden, I'm getting messages from people that I knew 145 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: when I was like seventeen years old? 146 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: What's the caliber of the message? 147 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: Like what's up? Sometimes it's like I watching this thing 148 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: and it made me think of you, Like they're very nice. 149 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: It's very nice messages. It isn't people like from my 150 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: teenagers being like why did you unfollow top of Bell's 151 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: social media account or something. It's like people who are 152 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: like just trying to get back in touch. And then 153 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: the craziest part is that I feel like I have 154 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: been also, I don't know, feeling this weird instinct to 155 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: like get back in touch with people that I haven't 156 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: talked to in a while. Yeah, And I think it's 157 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: because I've just been super busy like lately, and I 158 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: don't know, maybe I'm having like a sentimental early fall 159 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: where I'm like, man, I should say happy birthday to 160 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: my old friend from college, and then it ends up 161 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: that we end up talking for a while and I 162 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: just am like, Wow, this is so crazy it's happening 163 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: to me. But I'm also putting out that energy too, 164 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, so it's strange. 165 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: I think that comes in waves. You know, they're points 166 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: of life where you're more introspective and reflective, and you know, 167 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: fall is always a good time for that because you're 168 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: kind of after being outside for months, you're kind of 169 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: back inside and looking at things and thinking about things. 170 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: So that makes sense to me that that you would 171 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: reach out and that people would reach out to you. 172 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: I think that if it's welcome, that's great, and if 173 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: it's not, you can just ignore it. But it's kind 174 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: of you know, it's interesting that I think it's cool 175 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: that that you've made an impact on people that they 176 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: think of you and they're watching something. 177 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it too, honestly. And what I think 178 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: is also pretty interesting is that in certain in some 179 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 2: of these cases, like the like I've gotten back in 180 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: touch with with with someone who like we ended up 181 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 2: having the other night, like like a two hour conversation 182 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: like in person about old stuff, And it was so 183 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: wonderful to be a part of that conversation because I 184 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: don't know, I like knew this person a long time ago, 185 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: and we've known each other through the years, like we're 186 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: still functionally friends. But I think when we first met, 187 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: he was a little younger than me, and I don't know. 188 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 2: I guess that you just never know, like when you're 189 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: a young person, like when you hang out with people, 190 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know, what are these moments that 191 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: we have, Like do I remember, you know, certain certain 192 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: moments that I have with certain friends from a long 193 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 2: time ago. I will always have these memories. But then 194 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: it's like you're part of somebody's memory that you don't 195 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: you remember it, but it's almost like somebody tells you 196 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: in that moment that it was so impactful for them 197 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: and you're just like wow, like I remember it happening, 198 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: you know, but then it touches me so much that 199 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: they were like, oh, by the way, like in this moment, 200 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: this like changed my life or this was like a 201 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 2: turning point for me and you were involved, and I 202 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: was like, I don't know. I think it's because I'm, 203 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: like I said, I'm this like tender, open, little little 204 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: person right now that I'm just like, I don't know. 205 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 2: That really meant a lot to me. It really meant 206 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: a lot to me hearing that, you know, yeah so 207 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: the other. So then when I got home that night, 208 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: for some reason, I look at my horoscope late at night, 209 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 2: like when I'm in bed. I feel like it's just 210 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: like what I do is I just like open up 211 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: my astrology app and I'm like, I'm just gonna read 212 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: my horoscope for the next hour and then read the 213 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: horoscope for the hour after. You know, it's like a 214 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: late night astrology thing. So I opened the astrology app 215 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: and like, part of my horoscope, this is what it said. 216 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: The general theme of your life during this period is 217 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: to have more meaningful interactions. Love is a delicate, violent 218 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: process of finding truths two people can share. 219 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Good Lord, all right, astrology, I know. 220 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: I was like, Yo, that act just read me for filth. 221 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: Delicate violence, my god. 222 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, love is a delicate, violent process of finding truths 223 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: that between two people, which I'm like, I actually believe that. 224 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: So this is amazing. I mean, very rarely do I 225 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: go my astrology is one hundred percent accurate, But in 226 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: this case, I'm like, Yo, this is like good good 227 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: words here. But that's the thing is that I feel like, 228 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 2: I think the general theme of my life right now 229 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 2: is having more meaningful interactions. 230 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah, I think it's a 231 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: worthwhile way to spend your time always is to get 232 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: deeper with people, connect with things, Like I absolutely think 233 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: that's worthwhile. 234 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 2: Well, and like, I think part of it too is 235 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: that I think I've reached this point where been really 236 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: processing a lot of things that have happened to me 237 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: in the past couple of years especially, And you know, 238 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 2: I do feel like I'm in this era or I'm 239 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: in the zone where I am seeking out more meaning generally, 240 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: and I want to be less busy or distracted when 241 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: I'm in the presence of people that I really care 242 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: about or just people in general. Right, I think that, like, 243 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 2: as a young person, I was just really aloof to 244 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: a lot of things. I mean, we've talked about this, 245 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: Like I just was like kind of riding the wind 246 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: of like being you know, a person that was into 247 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: like cool things and in the world and like going 248 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: to concerts and meeting people. And I was just like socially, 249 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: you know, I was just a butterfly in that way, right, 250 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: And so I had a lot of acquaintances, I had 251 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: some really good friends, but I had a lot of 252 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: acquaintances right over the years, I think obviously that has inverted, 253 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: so now I have just like really good friends and 254 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: sort of less acquaintances. But I still feel I guess 255 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: I'm maybe a certain amount of guilt about maybe not 256 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: like I don't want to say that I had one 257 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: foot out the door necessarily, but I just think I 258 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: was really like I just kind of, I don't know, 259 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: thought maybe that people were just going to stick around 260 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: just because loyalty or you know, like whatever, Like you're 261 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: just like, oh whatever. And I'm also like that too, 262 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: right where I'm really good on my own, I have 263 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: moments where I'm like really really really social, but then 264 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: I sometimes need a moment, right, And I have lived 265 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 2: alone for very long time. I'm kind of self contained, 266 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 2: so it's not as if I like necessarily need like 267 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: a lot of social interaction at this point. But it's 268 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: also like, I don't know, I felt like maybe I'm 269 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: feeling this needs to sort of almost like reinvest in 270 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: the people that I care about. Yeah, and sometimes that 271 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: includes people that I haven't talked to. I mean, the 272 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: functional relationship is that we haven't they live somewhere else, 273 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 2: or they're busy, they have something going on, and I 274 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: do too, and like we're just not like talking every day, 275 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: but every time we talk, I have this feeling of 276 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: wanting to like really understand where they're coming from and 277 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 2: just like double down on my part of it, my 278 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: empathy and my listening skills and my everything. You know. Yeah, 279 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of what happened the other 280 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: night with my friend, was that, you know, he was 281 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: just kind of telling me, like all this stuff that happened. 282 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: There's you know a lot of you know, not putting 283 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: this business out there obviously, but you know it was 284 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: people have like tragedy and trauma in their lives and 285 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: then you know, later come to it and sort of 286 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: have different perspectives, and so I don't know, just kind 287 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: of like came at it like we started talking very 288 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: deeply about things that had happened and about like some 289 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: impacts that I had made and some impacts that he 290 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: had made on me. And I just felt like, man, 291 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 2: like what a good night, Like what a good experience 292 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: that was. And I want to be doing that all 293 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: the time. 294 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: You know, that's incredible. I think it's fantastic. I think 295 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: it's it is kind of related to the time we're 296 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: in together culturally, where I think people are just kind 297 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: of coming out of some darkness. I think I still 298 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of it is tied to lock down, 299 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people are still trying 300 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: to rediscover each other and check in and kind of 301 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: be like, you know, who are you now? Where are 302 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: you now? Like I I've always loved you, and I 303 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: want to be you know, better friends, And I just 304 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: think people have a little bit more room for that 305 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: right now than they have in the past. Possibly, But 306 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: also it's a it's an important evolution for you to 307 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: reach that point too, because I think it's hard to 308 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: go from being aloof or feeling like you've been aloof 309 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: with people to being like, no, I want to like 310 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: actually change what our relationship is in a way, Like 311 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: it's a hard thing to do. So I'm glad that 312 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: you're doing that with people who are already receptive to 313 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: that and really want that from you as well. 314 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think aloofness is 315 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 2: like I think when you're younger, it's almost necessary in 316 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 2: certain regards because it is like you just especially if 317 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 2: you're a person who is sort of more extroverted, Like 318 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 2: you can't possibly know every single person is deeply and 319 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: as you know, richly as as you want, and those 320 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: people aren't even showing those things to you half the time, 321 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: and you're not even showing those things to them. So 322 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: there's a way to sort of balance like these acquaintances 323 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: and this like kind of you know, I don't know, 324 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: I call them going out friends, right or it doesn't 325 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 2: get deep. And there have been times where I thought 326 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 2: I wanted to get closer or deeper with somebody who 327 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 2: just like wasn't it wasn't the vibe, they weren't willing 328 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 2: to work on themselves or sort of get to that point, 329 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 2: and so you know, you just have to like let 330 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 2: that stuff go. But over the years, as I think 331 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 2: I've like pulled away from like going out a lot 332 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: and just sort of doing that whole scene, like, yeah, 333 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: I spend more time alone. I've obviously like gone through 334 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: a lot more. I've been a lot more therapy, and 335 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: I think I'm about as willing and as like I 336 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: think I'm probably the most emotionally mature I've ever been 337 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: in my entire life. I really know who I am 338 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: now in a way that like I did not know 339 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: myself when I was twenty five, like and it keeps 340 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: happening over and over and over again. So it's not 341 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: as if like the light bulb went off and I'm 342 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 2: like completely this like you know, self actualized person, like 343 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 2: every single day as a learning experience about myself. But 344 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: to what I was when I was twenty five, I 345 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: mean I can't even tell you, like, but also in 346 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: that way that I'm not I'm not like embarrassed by that. 347 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 2: I'm not embarrassed by being twenty five and like having 348 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: weird like druggy friendships with like people that weren't deep 349 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: and sort of not being as present I think as 350 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: as I am now I'm and I'm not holding against 351 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 2: that stuff against other people too, right, Like to that 352 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: person who wasn't ready for like a close friendship when 353 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: we were like in our twenties, I'm like that's fine. 354 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: Like if they came to me tomorrow and was like 355 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: I really want to know you again and like let's 356 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 2: work on things, I'd be like fuck yeah, but I'm 357 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: not going to be like, well, when you were twenty seven, 358 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: you like never called me and you were like too 359 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 2: cool for me or whatever. You know, you don't want 360 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 2: to access your your deep thoughts about politics or relationships 361 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm not holding that against anybody, Like nobody 362 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: should be embarrassed by those years. 363 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: Is what I feel like, Oh god no. And it's 364 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: it's also, uh, it's it's more like if I'm going 365 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: to center it more personally, it's also that I have 366 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: to be I feel like I have to be open 367 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: to the fact that I can try to get close 368 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: to people now and maybe it won't work, and that's 369 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: okay too. Yeah, Like some people are meant to be, 370 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, in your life in a certain way at 371 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: a certain time, and you know, if you're trying and 372 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, actually I'm not really feeling this, then 373 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: that's okay. Yeah, that's all right. But it's the openness 374 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: that matters and the wanting to know people that matters. 375 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I mean, like it's it's fine if 376 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: if it never happens too. Yeah, Like there, I mean 377 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: I have to like really, I've had to really let 378 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: that go, like where I'm just like listen, like this, 379 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 2: this friendship, this relationship, this whatever is like not going 380 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 2: to be anything more than what it is, and if 381 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 2: it's broken and fucked up, then that's just the way 382 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: it's got to be, and I gotta move on. And 383 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 2: I wish them the best. But it's really, you know, like, 384 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: what what can I do? As long as I keep 385 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: my side of the street clean, right, That's what I've 386 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 2: always told myself. So but I but I but the interactions, Like, 387 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: like I said, I don't know, I just like, there's 388 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: nothing more satisfying to me right now than to have 389 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: a really enriching, warm, interesting, emotional, you know, et cetera 390 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: conversation with somebody that I like talking to, Like that's fantastic. 391 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: And it doesn't even have to be somebody who was 392 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: like a friend of mine from when I was seventeen. 393 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: It could be like a person I just met. Yeah, 394 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: you know, if you can access that that part of like, 395 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: if you can have a meaningful, you know, interesting conversation 396 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: with someone, it doesn't matter how well you've known them. 397 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: I mean, that is like such a gift to be 398 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 2: a part of that, with like being the other person 399 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 2: you know that you bounce those ideas off of. I 400 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 2: don't know, It's like, I guess I'm getting sensitive. I'm 401 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 2: an old age. But I'm like, I just want to talk. 402 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's I think it's a personal shift, 403 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: you know. I think it's a very personal shift that 404 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: you've made that maybe like this has always been available 405 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: to you, but you had to realize it and be 406 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: able to come to it when you were ready. You know. 407 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: It's and maybe that's what people are picking up on 408 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: with you when they're coming back and being like, Hey, 409 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: I actually really want to know you and like talk 410 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: with you, and You're like, yeah, I'm doing that now, 411 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: Like I can do that with you now. 412 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: Well, And I have to say, I mean, I'm not 413 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: trying to call anybody out here, certainly, but I find 414 00:22:51,640 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: that sometimes when men have children, suddenly suddenly the conversation 415 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: starts flowing baby, And I'm like, huh, wonder, why. 416 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: Really have you even noticing that? Uh huh really, what 417 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: is that? Where does that come from? For you? 418 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: I just feel like men they just do not look 419 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 2: inward until they are forced to by a life event. 420 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 2: Because I'm not like, I'm not going to call anybody out, 421 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 2: but because I will say that the majority of the 422 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: people who have gotten back in touch with me are men. Yeah, 423 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: and a lot of them are parents. Mm hmm, whatever 424 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: stage of parenthood or their lives they're in. Some of 425 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: them are you know, their kids are older, some of 426 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 2: them are younger, some of the some of them are divorced, 427 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: some of them are not, some of them are sickle, 428 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: paris whatever it is. But I'm just like, okay, like 429 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 2: this is a theme. I'm seeing a theme, and uh, 430 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: I don't know why. Like suddenly being a dad means 431 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: you're in your feelings about some shit and now you 432 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: just want to talk about it with me and I'm here, 433 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 2: I'm here. Isn't that weird? Steven? 434 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: I will I also want I would for myself. I 435 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: would be really careful with that as well. Like, I 436 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: think it's great that you're open to it and they're 437 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: clear you're clearly only talking to people that you want 438 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: to also know. But I'm really dubious of that when 439 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: people come back around and it's still all about them 440 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: and I'm like, mmm, I don't know, man. 441 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: Wait, no, well these are strangers, by the way, these 442 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 2: are my friends, so I know them. And I also 443 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 2: I don't feel that, Yeah, I'm I'm not I'm not 444 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: feeling I'm not feeling distrusting right now. I'm open, and 445 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: I'm just like, you know what, like let's talk. I mean, 446 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: if you want to process some shit about the ways 447 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 2: in which you were like a bad guy in your 448 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: twenties and now you've changed, I'm here. If you want 449 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 2: to talk about how we drifted apart because of whatever 450 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: life choices you've made or whatever, I'm here like whatever, 451 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 2: Like I'm not judging. So that's where I'm at. And 452 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 2: I'm like, and I will say, it's not just it's anybody. 453 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm not judging anybody right now, like yeah, I don't know. 454 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: I'm like I'm dropping the like, hoole, what's this about 455 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 2: type of feeling? 456 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: You know. 457 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, if anybody wants to come back and make 458 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 2: like a very earnest like opportunity to be a friend 459 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: or to be back in each other's lives, I'm here 460 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: for it. And I'm I don't know. Part of me 461 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, maybe it will bite me 462 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: in the ass one day, but I don't know. I'm 463 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: feeling the love, so I'm just like. 464 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I don't see that as if it'll 465 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: but you and the ass I'm saying for me personally 466 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: because I'm I've always been very open and my I've 467 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: always I've never had a problem having deep friendships and 468 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: keeping them around for years and all of that. So 469 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: I think for me personally, I have to be a 470 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: little more careful because I am the kind of person 471 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: who is generous to a fault and I'm trying to 472 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: temper that, which comes with Yeah, I have to be 473 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: a little bit more discerning because I never have been before. 474 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: So I'm learning how to be discerning, which isn't necessarily 475 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: like closing things down, but I just I have to 476 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: be careful about protecting myself and that usually comes in 477 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: line with new new friendships. But you know, because my 478 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: the I feel like my friends are my my friendships 479 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: are pretty established in terms of like who's in the circle, 480 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: like who's who I'm tight with. But when people kind 481 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: of come around now, I just I don't know. I've 482 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: I've learned how to be a little bit distrusting because 483 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of situations where people have taken 484 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,239 Speaker 1: advantage of me, just to be quite honest, Yeah, and 485 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: so that's what I'm lary of. I'm not saying you 486 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: have to be lary of that, but I'm I'm definitely like, hmmm, yeah, 487 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: what's happening here? If somebody I'm open to hearing about it, 488 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: but I'm not open to always giving myself fully to 489 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: people if I feel like I don't know about this 490 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: agenda that they have with being in my life. 491 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a delicate balance. I mean, you're absolutely right. 492 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 2: I mean I've been taken taken advantage of too. My 493 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: kindness has been taken advantage of too. But I feel like, again, 494 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: I'm at this point where I feel like, I think 495 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: I'm okay. I think I don't have to worry as 496 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: much about that because I have figured out boundaries and 497 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: I've figured out a ways of not having those people 498 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: pleasing instincts where I do want to just give everything 499 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 2: to people because they say something nice to me. Right, Like, 500 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: I've changed a lot in that way, and I feel 501 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: like I'm like, Okay, Well, I feel like now I 502 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: can understand a situation where I feel like, in a 503 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: former iteration of me, I would have totally, you know, 504 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: been like, oh my god, these people are back in 505 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: my life. I should let them like move in and 506 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 2: give them a stipend and give them all of my 507 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: time and help them with their careers and you know 508 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. I see that coming from a lot, 509 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: like I see it coming now, And if I feel 510 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: like it's going in that direction, I don't when to 511 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 2: pump the brakes. I know myself. I know that I'm 512 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 2: just one woman who has finite amount of personal resources. 513 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: I can't just like give to like one person. So yeah, 514 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: I think I trust myself a lot more now than 515 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: I did before. And that's great because now it feels like, Okay, well, 516 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 2: I can have those interactions. I can have like deep 517 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: friendships with people without it feeling like this like one 518 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: sided thing. Yeah, and if I feel like it's becoming 519 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: a one sided thing, that I just you know what 520 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: I mean. But it doesn't it doesn't take away from 521 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 2: the interaction. I feel like, I feel like if somebody 522 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 2: wants to talk to me very deeply and candidly about something, 523 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to be there for them. And you know, 524 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: I'm not constantly thinking what's this about? Which is growth? 525 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: Because I thought about that a lot, right and my 526 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 2: more aloof days I did, so. 527 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: No, it's it's definitely growth, and that's what we're all 528 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: moving towards. Always, Like I'm constantly I think that reevaluating 529 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: of self is really just about reevaluating the ways that 530 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: you're growing or want to grow and change. So I 531 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: feel that I think it's I think it's healthy. 532 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: Thanks, I do too, And I'm just you know, I'm 533 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: feeling this very I don't know, just like new era 534 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: of life happening, and I'm kind of excited by it. 535 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: I'm just like, you know what, now, I'm I'm a 536 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: person who is not coming at things with like a 537 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 2: ton of judgments and a ton of I don't want 538 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: to be scared anymore. I don't want to be I 539 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 2: don't want to pre judge situations. I don't I just 540 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: want to meet people very earnestly where they are and 541 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: not get so caught up in the like, you know, 542 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: socialness of the interaction, you know. And I'm hoping that 543 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: that is a good tactic to experience love, quite honestly, 544 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: so it is. 545 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exciting. I think it is a good tactic 546 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: to experiencing love, which you deserve. 547 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: Of course, and does everybody, you know. I think that's 548 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: like the overall message is that it's like love comes 549 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: in many forms. Love is what it is saying. Love 550 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: is a delicate and violent process of finally truth, there 551 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: we go. Well, thanks for listening. I don't know why 552 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: I decided to talk about this today because I've had 553 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 2: at least three coke zeros in the past hour. 554 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: So the emotional soda. 555 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: Sometimes three sodas, really gets made my feelings and it 556 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: doesn't make me scream and go crazy, so who knows 557 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 2: how it hits. 558 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: Well? Speaking of delicate violence, the delicate violence of love, Yeah. 559 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: Let's get into them. You named it, of course, so 560 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 2: you gotta say it. What's our theme? 561 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: So our theme this week is men will do anything 562 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: except go to therapy. And there are so many movies 563 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: that could have picked, like we could have picked for 564 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: this theme. I think we picked some pretty good ones. 565 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: But you have been saying this line for years, by 566 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 2: the way. 567 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: And it doesn't come from me, Like this is something 568 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: I picked up purely on the internet. Really, Oh yeah, 569 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: this is not like I created. I've heard people say 570 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: that and seeing people post memes about it. Yeah, and 571 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: it cracks me up every time because it'll be like, 572 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, like three guys in a mosh pit and 573 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: somebody will just put like men will do anything except 574 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: go to therapy? Over it? 575 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is literally what we just spoke 576 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: about in the intro. Men will do anything except go 577 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 2: to therapy, including talking to my ass for two hours, 578 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: not a licensed therapist, about about being a new dad 579 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: or whatever, like go to therapy, go to therapy, friends. 580 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: And it is it is. Therapy is a gender thing, 581 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: it's a classed thing, it's a racial thing like it. 582 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: There's several reasons why people don't access therapy. I totally 583 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: get it, financially, like, I totally get it. But men 584 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: in particular, I feel like like I will eat nothing 585 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: but meat for three years instead of go to therapy. 586 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: Like I feel like the men in my life are 587 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: always trying to like hack, not going to therapy. Yeah, 588 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: so it's like I'll do this crazy diet, I'll do 589 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: this insane exercise, I'll do this like I'll literally do 590 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: anything except talk to someone about my feelings. 591 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 2: And you do think it's because they feel like going 592 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: to therapy is too feminine. 593 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: I think it's that a lot of men haven't been 594 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: taught how to express their feelings like that. Generationally, that 595 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: was not a thing that was encouraged. So it's a 596 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: it's enough of a foreign entity that it feels not 597 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: not just too feminine, but I think it just feels 598 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: too strange. Like if you've never talked about your feelings before, 599 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: it's difficult to say, yeah, I'm gonna go talk to 600 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: a stranger about them for an hour every week. But yeah, 601 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: I think there is like a feminization angle to it 602 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: that is interesting, and I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking 603 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: of like you know, the Sopranos and yeah, you know, 604 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: even the way it's presented pop culturally where it's you know, 605 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: there's definitely like a feminized angle to it. But I'm 606 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: also I'm also excited to say and encouraged to say 607 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: that a lot more men I know are in therapy 608 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: and have gone to therapy and start addressing their shit. 609 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and I think more now than ever, 610 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 2: which is so exciting. 611 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: You know. 612 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 2: There's also a stigma too about therapy and like you know, 613 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 2: kind of I don't know immigrant culture as well, like 614 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: my my both my parents would never go because you 615 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: don't need therapy, you just need your family. But then 616 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, what if the family is the problem. 617 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 2: What which I think is like you know, kind of 618 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 2: for men of color, for men who exist outside of 619 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: that kind of American sensibility. Yeah, that's like a double 620 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: a double whammy being like, no, they don't want you 621 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 2: to go, because why the hell would you go. Oh, 622 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 2: you're a man and you're from you know, like different culture. 623 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: You're not in American culture. 624 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: So ay, I did this. I'm doing this kind of 625 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: it's like a like a gender equality and repair kind 626 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: of seminar. I guess you could say that I'm doing 627 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: on Saturday mornings for a couple of weeks, and there 628 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: are people from all over the world in this group, 629 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: and it's exciting. It's exciting to see, you know, men 630 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: from Kenya or from you know, Nigeria or parts of India. Like, 631 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: it's exciting to see people internationally starting to address the 632 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: fact that the ways that they have been complicit in 633 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: either benefiting from a gendered world or enacting gendered behavior 634 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,959 Speaker 1: that doesn't serve them anymore. So it's just been really 635 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: exciting to kind of be part of it and you know, 636 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: enhance my own knowledge that way and to change my 637 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: own mind in some ways. But it's I still think 638 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: that mental doing things. I've go to therapy. 639 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: What can I ask you, what when did you decide 640 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: to start. 641 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: Going to therapy. Yeah, oh god, when I was like nineteen. 642 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 2: Really, you've been to therapy since you were nineteen. 643 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been therapy for a very long time. Okay. 644 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: And was it a thing where you were like I 645 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 2: should go or did somebody be like you should go? Uh? 646 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: At first, it was somebody had to tell me that 647 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: I should go. It was a doctor because I was 648 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: suicidally depressed, and you know, she was like, you have 649 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: to talk to someone about this, and kind of explained 650 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: to me what therapy was and gave me, you know, 651 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: a couple of recommendations, and you know, kind of paved 652 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: the way for me to be able to go see someone. 653 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: It took me a long time to realize that I 654 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: also had to ask questions and that I had to 655 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: find the right person. That it wasn't just any therapist 656 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: that was going to be able to deal with any problem. 657 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: Most can help most people, but I had some real 658 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: deep seated shits, so I started looking for specialists and 659 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: people who actually specialized in the field that I needed. 660 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, I've been in therapy for a very very, 661 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: very very long time. Even when I was dead broke. 662 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: I would find therapists who head sliding scales where I 663 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: could pay twenty bucks a session or you know, I've 664 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: just been working at it for like over thirty years. Wow. 665 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: So I but it definitely took someone saying to me, 666 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: you should try, like this is a thing, because I 667 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: didn't even realize it was something I could do because 668 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: the only way I'd seen it presented, but the only 669 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: way I guess it showed up in my life up 670 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: till that point was in pop culture, and it was 671 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: only for rich white people, Like I only saw rich 672 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: white people in the movies going to therapy. Yeah, and 673 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: then it was always a joke. It's like haha, you're 674 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: in therapy, and I'm like, well, what is this? So 675 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: I had to figure out what is it? How does 676 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: it benefit me? Can it benefit me? It's a lot 677 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: of hoops that jump through to even go yeah, so 678 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: I get it, like I understand why men will do anything, 679 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: so I put it in therapy. But I do think 680 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: that talking about it more openly hopefully opens the door 681 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: for people to realize that it is something that is 682 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: for everybody. You just have to find the way that 683 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: it's right for you. 684 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I will say I'm the opposite. 685 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 2: I mean I came to it kind of later in life. 686 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: I mean I think when I was a kid, and 687 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: up until high school and college and stuff, I had seen, like, 688 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 2: you know, I had like an appointment here and there. 689 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 2: At some point my parents actually did want me to 690 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 2: go see a therapist. When I was like, I don't know, 691 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: sixteen or something like that. That lasted like one set. 692 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't even know. They just drove 693 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 2: me downtown and dropped me off in front of an 694 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: office building, and then I was like, oh, I guess 695 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 2: I'm supposed to go talk to this person. And then 696 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 2: I never went back. That's all I remember. But then 697 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 2: it wasn't until I was like thirty five that I 698 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 2: actually started going for real, you know, consistently, and then 699 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 2: I began to really understand how to do it, which 700 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 2: is not you monologuing about your fandango. I keep saying 701 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 2: the word fanango, but there's no other way to say, like, 702 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 2: it's not like a comedy routine. 703 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: Honestly, right, right? And did you go because you felt 704 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: like you needed to or because someone told you to go? 705 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? I no one told me. I hit a point 706 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 2: internally where I was I don't know. I think around 707 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 2: thirty five thirty six, I was starting to feel you know, 708 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 2: like the anxiety and the stress of life. I guess, 709 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 2: you know, I was in, you know, like having a 710 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 2: moment where I'm like, oh, I'm thirty five, and I'm like, 711 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 2: am I gonna have kids? Am I gonna get married? 712 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 2: Like what is it all? Like? I was having gone 713 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 2: we Basically I didn't even know what the fuck it 714 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 2: was back then. I thought it was like anxiety, and 715 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 2: so I went to my actual doctor doctor and I 716 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 2: was just like, yeah, I don't know, should I get 717 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 2: on meds or whatever, you know, like just doing the 718 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 2: thing that I didn't know, you know, I don't know. 719 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 2: I just was like, put me on medication. And she 720 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 2: was like, have you you know, maybe tried to change 721 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: some lifestyle things, you know, like get more sleep, like 722 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,720 Speaker 2: eat better, exercise, or maybe go to you know, talk therapy. 723 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 2: And I was like, I will try all those things, 724 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 2: I guess, and therapy was the last one of it. 725 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I think I was like I was already 726 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 2: like working out and like do it all my shit, 727 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 2: And I felt great, like I had felt better just 728 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 2: by making lifestyle choices. But then it wasn't like the 729 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 2: last bit of it was like, well I should maybe 730 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 2: I should just go to therapy and just see what 731 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 2: it's about. And then I started going and that was it. 732 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: Like I haven't stopped since. And like I said, I 733 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: think it was late. I think thirty five thirty six 734 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: is pretty late to start it, I mean comparatively. But 735 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 2: but but yeah, but then, but then also getting over 736 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 2: the hurdle initially of it being like thinking of the 737 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 2: movie version of therapy, which is that you just like, 738 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 2: you know, are you know, like this and this anxious 739 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 2: person who's just monologues about their life and gets no 740 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 2: feedback and there's no work involved. Yeah, I did change 741 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 2: my thinking about that. That tooked like a year. So really 742 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,479 Speaker 2: it was like thirty seven when I started really going. 743 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,280 Speaker 1: That's when I started actually doing therapy. 744 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. So so for the men out there that don't 745 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 2: want to go, I'm just telling you it took me 746 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 2: a while. Yeah, but you can get there right absolutely. 747 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 1: And I started asking the questions, you know, I started 748 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: realizing that therapists have specialties. So I when I found 749 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: the therapist that I'm working with now, who I've been 750 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: with for like seven almost eight years, I asked her like, well, 751 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: what is your what's your training in or what do 752 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: you specialize in? Because these are my issues. You know, 753 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: she's she's and she does like she deals with object 754 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: permanence and you know, all the stuff that I need. 755 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: But I also realized that, and this is why I 756 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: really do love my therapist, because I realized it is 757 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: beneficial for me to have someone who challenges me and 758 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: pushes back on my thoughts. So for a long time 759 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: I went to therapy and it was just like I'm sad, 760 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,399 Speaker 1: here are my feelings, and someone saying like, well, we'll 761 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: get better, won't always be that way, and not really 762 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: connecting to me in a way where I was making 763 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: any actual changes. This is the first therapist I've worked 764 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: with that kind of pushed me into making changes and 765 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: not pushed me in a forceful way, but just help 766 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: me discover that I needed to make changes and then 767 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: worked with me on how to do that. So I 768 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: feel like I'm the healthiest I've ever been because I'm 769 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: working with someone who actually challenges me and doesn't let 770 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: me just sit in my bad feelings and try to 771 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: make me feel better weak to week, But instead it's like, well, 772 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: why don't you like you should do this? Or this 773 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: is this is a symptom of X you should do 774 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: why or these are like? She constantly gives me things 775 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: that I should like write down. She's like, write this 776 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: down and put it on your desk, especially when we talk. 777 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: It took me years to realize I could talk to 778 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: her about work. It wasn't just about like my life, 779 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: my love life. She's like, what's going on at work? 780 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I have a lot of feelings 781 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: about my career and the career that I've chosen, and 782 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: how deficient I feel sometimes and how out of place 783 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: I feel because I didn't go to school for this 784 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: and just like everything that comes up, I didn't realize 785 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: I should be talking to her about this as well. 786 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: It's not just always about my mom. So I think 787 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: I definitely I appreciate taking that I had to take 788 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: the time to find someone who was exactly who I 789 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,879 Speaker 1: needed to talk to. Yeah, so that does. It all 790 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: takes effort, and it takes effort and time and money 791 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: that a lot of people don't have. 792 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 2: Well, and also too, I mean, maybe to this point, 793 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 2: I feel like not to be a generalist, or maybe 794 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 2: I think at the hardest thing to accept about the 795 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,799 Speaker 2: therapeutic process is that you do not have control and 796 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 2: that you have to want to be known in order 797 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 2: to for it to work. And I feel like perhaps 798 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 2: men don't want to give that up. I don't like 799 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 2: the feeling of being out of control and being seen 800 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,880 Speaker 2: and you know, having somebody have some weird fucking control 801 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,399 Speaker 2: on them mentally, you know. And I'm just like, yo, 802 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 2: it actually is freeing sometimes to not have that control. 803 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 2: Like sometimes it is nice to just fucking be a 804 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 2: river of fucking messy emotions and not know where it 805 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 2: goes and where it stops. Just like fucking let yourself, 806 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 2: let yourself feel my dudes, Like we talk about this 807 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 2: all the time, Like we talked about this like a 808 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago with like the le circlaruge in 809 00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 2: the Jean Pierre Melville filmography. It's like, yeah, if you 810 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 2: just kind of all allow the authenticity of emotions happened, 811 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 2: then maybe we wouldn't have wars and uh, you know, 812 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 2: fucking destruction and things. And if everybody was if all 813 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 2: the men were just in therapy, I think we'd have 814 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,479 Speaker 2: a kinder world. Maybe I don't know. 815 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: Well, This is the thing about patriarchy that I think 816 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people need to discover is that it 817 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: hurts all of us. It hurts men, it hurts everyone 818 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: across the gender spectrum completely because we're all being affected 819 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: by its rules and regulations. But yeah, I do, I 820 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: do think that it's I think it's very important for 821 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 1: people to know that there are different ways to access therapy, 822 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: but find find the right fit for you. Maybe you 823 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: don't want to be challenged because it's interesting, because to me, 824 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,240 Speaker 1: I don't think a therapy as a giving up of control. 825 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: I think of it more as like, yes, things will 826 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: come up that you cannot control, Like emotions will happen 827 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: that you can control, but you're in the hands of 828 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: somebody who can help you learn what to do with them. 829 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,800 Speaker 1: If your therapist is great, you'll be in the hands 830 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: of someone who won't just leave you there in your 831 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: in those feelings. So that to me is the more 832 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: important part of it, Like, yeah, you need to learn that. 833 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: Like and I think a lot of people already know 834 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: that they can't control their emotions, which is why they're 835 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: afraid of therapy. But yeah, like you're already not in 836 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: control of those emotions, so it's better to be in 837 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 1: the hands of someone who can help you regulate and 838 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: figure out what those emotions mean and how to address 839 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 1: them in a healthy way. And there's just it's a lot. 840 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: It's a very beneficial process. I would not be the 841 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: person I am without therapy. I wouldn't be alive literally 842 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 1: without therapy. And I think that, you know, the things 843 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: that I've processed over the years have just put me 844 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: in a much more gentle way of life and a 845 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: much more peaceful way of life mentally and externally. Just 846 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: having peaces something I never thought i'd be able to attain. 847 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 1: So I'm I love it and I wish every I 848 00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 1: constantly pushed dudes in my life to go to therapy. 849 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, why are you not taking talking to somebody? 850 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: Like why are you white knuckling life? 851 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 2: Like you don't have to be it, don't have to well, 852 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 2: and like, this is the thing that's interesting about these 853 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 2: two movies this week is that I feel like, even 854 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 2: though mine is of the era and yours is basically 855 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 2: like a period piece, right, it's kind of the same 856 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 2: era of man. Yeah, who I feel like are the 857 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 2: most get your ass to therapy types? Of people that 858 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 2: ever exist in history except for maybe you know, the 859 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:38,959 Speaker 2: conquistadors or something like like a guy like boomer guys, 860 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 2: like middle aged guys in the fifties and sixties. Should 861 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 2: they go to therapy? I would say immediately if they're 862 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,839 Speaker 2: still alive. But in these movies, they're a fucking mess. 863 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: Right, A lot of mess is happening, and they are 864 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: in some cases ignoring it, in some cases a little 865 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: too keyed into it. In my movie, I'll talk about it, 866 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: but I do think I have to give credit to 867 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: the main character for trying to talk to someone. But 868 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: it's not therapy and it's not useful. But yeah, there's 869 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: a big need for it in this era. But I 870 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: think that this is where it's It's persisted from this 871 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 1: point because this was like the model of masculinity for 872 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:23,239 Speaker 1: so long. 873 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, ultimately, I think that's why movies, because I'm well, 874 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 2: and also TV. I mean, I think about mad Men. 875 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 2: I think people were obsessed with mad Men because they 876 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 2: wanted to dissect Don Draper and like who he was 877 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 2: and like he was just this enigmatic, fucking sixties middle 878 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 2: aged weirdo, and everybody wanted to know him. And that's 879 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 2: I think what happens is like when you see things 880 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 2: from this time period, you do look at this certain 881 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 2: specific type of masculinity and you're like, wow, that has 882 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 2: changed a lot, right, a lot a lot. So well, 883 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,320 Speaker 2: I'm going first, Yeah, let's go. I'm so excited. I 884 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 2: haven't seen a movie in so long. 885 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna dig right into it. My movie was released 886 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine. The screenplays by Ethan Cohen 887 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: and Joel Cohen. It was directed by Ethan Cohen and 888 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 1: Joel Cohen. My movie is a serious man. The Rabbi 889 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: is busy. He didn't look busy. He's thinking. And this 890 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: we've talked. We've discussed the Cohen brothers before on this podcast. 891 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: Go back and listen to old episodes if you're not 892 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,279 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about their style of 893 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: directing and them personally. So spend too much time on 894 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: that this time. But this is an interesting movie to me, 895 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,319 Speaker 1: even just within their ouvra like It's an interesting one 896 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,480 Speaker 1: of their more interesting movies. To me. They always do 897 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: these kind of sprawling stories. They always look at these 898 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: slices of life that are interesting. They always are entertaining, 899 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 1: But this one in particular, I think leaves a lot 900 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 1: more to the imagination than some of their other films, 901 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,560 Speaker 1: and it's a little bit more expansive in some ways. 902 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,799 Speaker 1: So I'll give you a one sentence synopsis. You're not 903 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,400 Speaker 1: imagining things. Your family might be generationally cursed. 904 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 2: Perfect. 905 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: So first and foremost we have to talk about who 906 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: is in this movie. And the star of the movie 907 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,879 Speaker 1: is Michael Stohlbarg, who is such a phenomenal actor, such 908 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: a little cutie face love, so amazing, and he's, you know, 909 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: star of stage and screen. He's trained at Juilliard. He 910 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 1: actually studied mine with Marcel Marceau, which I did not 911 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: really yeah, which I did not realize until I was 912 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:50,280 Speaker 1: doing research for this episode and a lot of people. 913 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: He came to prominence pop culturally when he starred and 914 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: when he was in the movie called Me by your 915 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: Name as the main character's father and has this epic 916 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,319 Speaker 1: speech at the end that kind of made for me 917 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,279 Speaker 1: the whole movie me too. 918 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 2: Honestly, can't remember a lot about that movie now except 919 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,920 Speaker 2: for that dad completely completely. 920 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,719 Speaker 1: So it's one of those things where I feel like 921 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: he's one of those actors where you're always so happy 922 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: to see him, Like kind of get his flowers because 923 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 1: he's been doing this for a long time and has 924 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,600 Speaker 1: been this dynamic for a very long time. He also 925 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,399 Speaker 1: is in he stars in Dope Sick, that Hulu movie 926 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: about the family that created the opioid crisis, the drug 927 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,400 Speaker 1: company that created the opioid crisis, and he's just so 928 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: chillingly good in that. Like again, he has a range 929 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,560 Speaker 1: that is unreal, And what I love about him in 930 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: this film is that you get to see that range, 931 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: but he takes it up and not because there's a 932 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,280 Speaker 1: lot of frenzy and kind of anxiety in this film, 933 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,600 Speaker 1: and he keeps this kind of high level anxiety going 934 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,040 Speaker 1: without falling apart for most of the film, which is 935 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,239 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. So I love it. I just love 936 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: that he is the star of this film. He centers 937 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the emotion for me. So three things 938 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 1: happen kind of right at the beginning of the film 939 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: that helps set the tone for the film. There's a 940 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: short opener about this like nineteenth century couple that may 941 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 1: or may not have been visited by a dibock, and 942 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: the wife drives an ice pick into what she is 943 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,719 Speaker 1: perceived to be the Dibik's chest. And so, now, if 944 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: you're not familiar with with Jewish lore and history, a 945 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,080 Speaker 1: dipic is an evil spirit that kind of takes control 946 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: of somebody's body and often leaves by either completing a 947 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,439 Speaker 1: task or a goal, or they are exercised in some way. 948 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: But it's basically like, you know, the person is standing 949 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,319 Speaker 1: in front of you is not the person you've always known, 950 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,560 Speaker 1: like they have been possessed in some way. So that 951 00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,320 Speaker 1: happens right off the bat. Then there's Danny Gopnik, who's 952 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: the child of our star, and he gets his radio 953 00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: taken away during Hebrew class after he talks a twenty 954 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,879 Speaker 1: dollar bill and there that's owed to a bully who 955 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,800 Speaker 1: he bought some marijuana from and then gets it taken away. 956 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 1: And then we also have again our star, professor Professor Gopnik, 957 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:14,280 Speaker 1: Professor Larry Gopnik, who gets a bribe from a student 958 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: for a better midterm grade after he returns from this 959 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,360 Speaker 1: routine doctor's appointment. So these are all very innocuous things, 960 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,759 Speaker 1: and in true Cohen Brothers style, you think, how are 961 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: we what kind of movie are we going to see? 962 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,760 Speaker 1: Based on this? On these openers that there is this connection, 963 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: and it's never even explicitly said that that nineteenth century 964 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:39,000 Speaker 1: couple is part of the Gopnik family, but as things unfold, 965 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 1: you realize it probably is, because in that short opener 966 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 1: the wife tells her husband, we've been cursed, like you 967 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: have cursed us. So the bulk of the movie takes 968 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,719 Speaker 1: place in nineteen sixty seven Minnesota. Larry Gopnik is a 969 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,799 Speaker 1: math professor. He gets all these messages when he gets 970 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: to his office. One is from Beer Records, one is 971 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,440 Speaker 1: from Asia Ableman, and one is from his doctor who's like, 972 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,040 Speaker 1: we need to talk about the results of the routine 973 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,719 Speaker 1: exam I just gave you. So the Gobnek family, to 974 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,840 Speaker 1: me is very interesting. You've got Larry, who again is 975 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: this kind of dad, going about his business, doing everything 976 00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,200 Speaker 1: he thinks he's supposed to do as a man in 977 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: this era, taking care of his family, not really close 978 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: with his wife, but is like, eh, what are you 979 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: going to do? We're married, and just doesn't really seem 980 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: to have any desires outside of the family unit and 981 00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 1: the life that he's created. You know, he's very dutiful 982 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,920 Speaker 1: and very regimented. You have his brother Arthur, who lives 983 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,800 Speaker 1: with them. Arthur's kind of always draining this sebacious cyst 984 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: from his neck, and it's just he's real strange. He's 985 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,439 Speaker 1: really strange. She sleeps on the couch. At one point, 986 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: Larry talks about how, you know, he knows his brother's 987 00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,880 Speaker 1: really smart, but he thinks his social inability to connect 988 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,520 Speaker 1: keeps him from having a full life. And he's constantly 989 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,200 Speaker 1: working and writing little things down in this book that 990 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 1: he calls them men taculus, which we'll get into later. 991 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 1: Arthur is always around, always in the bathroom, kind of 992 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,200 Speaker 1: a pain in everyone's ass just by existing and doesn't 993 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: really bring a lot to the table. You have his 994 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,239 Speaker 1: daughter Sarah, who's always washing or trying to wash her hair, 995 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,399 Speaker 1: and just like can't stand her little brother. Her little 996 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 1: brother is Danny, who is again doing Hebrew lessons. He's 997 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,440 Speaker 1: about to have his bar mitzvah and he's a total stoner. 998 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,160 Speaker 1: And that is what Larry's wife, Judith, and Judith comes 999 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: out the gate in the movie wanting a divorce. So 1000 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 1: all these seemingly little things happen that start to build 1001 00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,400 Speaker 1: the frenzy of the story. So Larry has this neighbor 1002 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:51,360 Speaker 1: who's constantly mowing part of his lawn like he's traversing 1003 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,919 Speaker 1: the boundary of the lawn. Again, the student leaves behind 1004 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 1: this bribe envelope full of money to bribe and for 1005 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 1: a passing gray. We learned that Larry's up for tenure, 1006 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,240 Speaker 1: but he's also been told that someone has been sending 1007 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: anonymous letters telling the tenure committee to deny him for 1008 00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: like his moral turpitude. And then Danny again, like he 1009 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 1: is constantly running away from this bully and constantly stoned. 1010 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: He signed up for Columbia House Records without telling his family, 1011 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: So now his dad owes a ton of money for 1012 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 1: shit that he hasn't returned. 1013 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,640 Speaker 2: God, I've been a part of that grift, that grift. 1014 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,240 Speaker 1: That kept us all goward for so long. 1015 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 2: You mailed in two pennies and all of this you 1016 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,160 Speaker 2: owe them five thousand dollars. 1017 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,360 Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm eleven, what are you talking about? 1018 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,040 Speaker 1: How is it legal for you to let me get 1019 00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,040 Speaker 1: into debt. I'm eleven years old. 1020 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,800 Speaker 2: I was just reading Parade magazine and now the family 1021 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,840 Speaker 2: is destitute. 1022 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: They're mad at me, and I am grounded for life 1023 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,960 Speaker 1: because I wanted to get the new simply read cassette 1024 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: or the Crowded House cassette, which I still have all 1025 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:12,000 Speaker 1: my crowded houses on cassette from fucking the Columbia House. 1026 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 1: Oh God. So and Larry is also constantly climbing on 1027 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,880 Speaker 1: the roof of their house to fix this like aerial antenna, 1028 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,080 Speaker 1: so he's got again, like these obligations, these things are 1029 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,400 Speaker 1: happening to everyone around him. And then when Judith asks 1030 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: him for a divorce, she basically kicks him out to 1031 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,360 Speaker 1: a cot in the living room and then tells him 1032 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,080 Speaker 1: he has to move into a hotel. She and her 1033 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: new partner, Cy Ableman sit him down and say, like, 1034 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's for the best of you move into 1035 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 1: a hotel with your brother, which he eventually does. But 1036 00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:50,000 Speaker 1: Judith wants a get which is basically a mutual divorce 1037 00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,600 Speaker 1: so that she and Si can get remarried in the 1038 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,040 Speaker 1: Jewish faith. And there's something about there are ways that 1039 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: I think I could accidentally ruin the movie, which I 1040 00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,560 Speaker 1: don't want to do, but I do want to talk 1041 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,760 Speaker 1: a lot about the symbolism in this movie. So we 1042 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,160 Speaker 1: have because there's a lot, there's a lot present, and 1043 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 1: I think the movie is kind of fueled by symbolism. 1044 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,400 Speaker 1: It's not a difficult story to get into, but in 1045 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,520 Speaker 1: true Cohen Brother's style, you have to pay attention to 1046 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: everything that's happening because it's very well layered, and each 1047 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: layer will explain the one before and after. But the 1048 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: symbolism in this movie is interesting to me. So you 1049 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,720 Speaker 1: have something as simple as the Gopnik's neighbors. They are this, 1050 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, traditionally white, seemingly perfect father son duo. You know, 1051 00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,160 Speaker 1: they're constantly playing catch and going on hunting trips, but 1052 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: they're also constantly impinging on the Gopnik space and have 1053 00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:46,320 Speaker 1: this air of spooky racism to them. I guess you 1054 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:52,360 Speaker 1: could say that Larry is very aware of, very aware of, 1055 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,320 Speaker 1: and it affects how he lives in his own home. 1056 00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,440 Speaker 1: He's uncomfortable in his own home in his neighborhood, not 1057 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,960 Speaker 1: just because of what's happening in his house with his wife, 1058 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,760 Speaker 1: but the world outside is also kind of forcing him 1059 00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,000 Speaker 1: into this place where he doesn't fit in. So when 1060 00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,520 Speaker 1: he goes on the roof and he's constantly trying to 1061 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,480 Speaker 1: fix the santenna, he's trying to fix the signal and 1062 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: kind of get his house right. To me, it's very 1063 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,920 Speaker 1: symbolic that he's on this roof and not able, he's 1064 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,560 Speaker 1: as high as he can go and he can't get 1065 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: it right. Essentially, it's very interesting to me. Then we 1066 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 1: look at something like Arthur's book, this Mentaculus, which looks 1067 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,880 Speaker 1: like the craziest of ramblings and symbology, but actually ends 1068 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: up leading to a discovery that Arthur has been gambling, 1069 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,520 Speaker 1: like he's kind of a pro gambler, or at least 1070 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: using this mentaculus to which again, in any stretch of 1071 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,560 Speaker 1: the imagination, any stranger looking at this book now would think, oh, 1072 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,440 Speaker 1: we found the book from seven of you know the 1073 00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,280 Speaker 1: serial Killer and seven this part of how to be 1074 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: part of his group of texts. But he's using this 1075 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 1: to gamble and earn money. But he doesn't he's not 1076 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,840 Speaker 1: able to move on. So Arthur is like this really 1077 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 1: stuck character because he's stuck medically, he's got this machine 1078 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,240 Speaker 1: that he has to constantly carry around and like drain 1079 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 1: things out of his body. But he's stuck in that 1080 01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:23,200 Speaker 1: he can't move forward. He's not dating, he's not having 1081 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,320 Speaker 1: a full life, he's not married, he's not social, like 1082 01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:30,000 Speaker 1: he can't do anything, but he has this super brain 1083 01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: that he's putting to use in the most basic way. 1084 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:36,640 Speaker 1: And I don't know. He's an interesting guy who eventually 1085 01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,880 Speaker 1: gets arrested and I'm not going to say how, why 1086 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: what that looks like, but a true Cohen brother style, 1087 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,200 Speaker 1: it comes out of the blue. And what he gets 1088 01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,680 Speaker 1: arrested for helps you realize, oh, this could be part 1089 01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 1: of this underlying damage that he's not addressing, because men 1090 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:57,080 Speaker 1: will do anything except go to therapy, including writing in 1091 01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,880 Speaker 1: a notebook full of crazy ramblings. Yeah, involves no white 1092 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:07,160 Speaker 1: space left, no white space filled to the margins. And 1093 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,480 Speaker 1: then you also have Psy Ableman, who's kind of this. 1094 01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 1: So Arthur is played by Richard Kind, which I love, 1095 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,240 Speaker 1: and Cy Ableman is played by Fred Melamed, who you 1096 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,320 Speaker 1: would know by sight even if you don't know his name. 1097 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,400 Speaker 1: He's an incredible actor. And Cy is a really interesting 1098 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: because he's not in the film, like he's not physically 1099 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: in the film on like in frame for most of it, 1100 01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 1: but he's a constant, looming presence for most of the 1101 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,160 Speaker 1: action in Larry's life, and Cy acts like a like 1102 01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,800 Speaker 1: this generous friend, this good guy, but he's also literally 1103 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,040 Speaker 1: ripping Larry's family apart. So he's kind of this this 1104 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,480 Speaker 1: innocuous presence, like I'm just here to make make sure 1105 01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,360 Speaker 1: things go smoothly, Like you know, your wife and I 1106 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: didn't plan if fallen in love with each other. I'm 1107 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,200 Speaker 1: a widow, she's in an unhappy marriage. It just happens. 1108 01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: But he's actually part of the foundation of what is 1109 01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 1: all the bad things that are happening to Larry. So 1110 01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,800 Speaker 1: the symbology of him being there is interesting as a character. 1111 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,760 Speaker 1: And he's also the only character in the film who 1112 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,640 Speaker 1: was ever referred to as a serious man when his 1113 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,360 Speaker 1: actions show anything other than that, Like he is not 1114 01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:21,400 Speaker 1: seriously trying to get this guy to understand and believe, 1115 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 1: Like he's not trying to get Larry to think he's 1116 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 1: a good guy because he's a good guy. It's because 1117 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,880 Speaker 1: he wants something from him. He's like very devious and underhanded. 1118 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,080 Speaker 1: But he's the only one referred to as serious in 1119 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,760 Speaker 1: the film. So it's just again very interesting that, you know, 1120 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: the wave of the film as it happens is Larry 1121 01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:43,880 Speaker 1: is just meeting this constant denigration and he tries at 1122 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:48,640 Speaker 1: certain points to talk to his Rabbi and this is 1123 01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,760 Speaker 1: where I again, I have to give some credit because 1124 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,120 Speaker 1: I am not a religious person, but I do know 1125 01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:59,480 Speaker 1: that religious people often see their figureheads as a therapeutic outlet. 1126 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,439 Speaker 1: Trying to see his rabbi, he's trying to be seeing 1127 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:07,360 Speaker 1: a divorce attorney. He's doing so much. He's constantly financially strapped, 1128 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,400 Speaker 1: but he's making the effort to see these rabs. And 1129 01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,920 Speaker 1: the rabbis are fucking hilarious. One is so young it 1130 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 1: could be like his son essentially, and has no advice 1131 01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,480 Speaker 1: to give him. The other one tells this intense story 1132 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,520 Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with what's happening and has 1133 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,680 Speaker 1: no end. And then the other Rabbi that he tries 1134 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,200 Speaker 1: to see is like nine hundred years old and is 1135 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,040 Speaker 1: basically like, now, I ain't doing that, Like I don't 1136 01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,480 Speaker 1: do that anymore. So I give him credit for trying 1137 01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,280 Speaker 1: to get some kind of therapeutic help, but they all fail, 1138 01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,040 Speaker 1: and he doesn't actually ever go and get professional therapeutic help, 1139 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,480 Speaker 1: nor could he afford to, because he's paying for everything 1140 01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:48,240 Speaker 1: in his life. That is, he's just constantly financially behind 1141 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,160 Speaker 1: the wheel, so he can't help himself. And at one 1142 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:57,880 Speaker 1: point he says, frantically, you know everything that I thought 1143 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,480 Speaker 1: was one way turns out to be another, which is 1144 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 1: actually something that your main character says in your film 1145 01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:03,960 Speaker 1: at some point too. 1146 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1147 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,600 Speaker 1: So it's this real again, this heavy symbology or this 1148 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:14,960 Speaker 1: heavy metaphorical leaning, that he did everything he was supposed 1149 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 1: to do to have a normal, happy life, and absolutely, 1150 01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,680 Speaker 1: in no way is his life normal or happy, and 1151 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,000 Speaker 1: he does not know what to do about it. And 1152 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,320 Speaker 1: there is just so much that happens in this film. 1153 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,680 Speaker 1: There's car accidents, the persistent hounding of the Columbia Record Club, 1154 01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:36,920 Speaker 1: visiting the rabbis, people getting arrested, the mounting expenses. There's nightmares, 1155 01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,280 Speaker 1: and the ending of the film, which I will not 1156 01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,720 Speaker 1: give away. But the ending of the film is so 1157 01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,880 Speaker 1: interesting to me because again in that it's kind of 1158 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,959 Speaker 1: a departure from for the Coen Brothers in that they've 1159 01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,160 Speaker 1: left it so open ended, and it's shocking when you 1160 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:56,120 Speaker 1: see it, you know, like again you're watching the life 1161 01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:57,760 Speaker 1: of this math professor, and then you kind of get 1162 01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,800 Speaker 1: to the end and you're like wait, wait, wait to me. 1163 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:06,360 Speaker 1: The ending of the film suggests that the Gopnik family 1164 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,520 Speaker 1: line is about to end forever. So it's been set 1165 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,440 Speaker 1: up in a way that it connects to the beginning 1166 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,360 Speaker 1: without being a direct line, Like there's no direct discussion 1167 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 1: of the family curse. There's no direct discussion of you know, 1168 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,760 Speaker 1: the couple that we saw in the beginning of the film. 1169 01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,840 Speaker 1: But if the curse on this family has been persistent 1170 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 1: throughout the generations, there is a huge indication that it's 1171 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,680 Speaker 1: going to end, but not in the way that you think. 1172 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,200 Speaker 1: So I love it. I love this movie. I think 1173 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,720 Speaker 1: that it is a really interesting study of dudes from 1174 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,440 Speaker 1: this era, particularly because they're focusing on a Jewish man, 1175 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: which comes with its own set of you know, cultural obligations, 1176 01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:54,000 Speaker 1: and you know, I just love I just love this 1177 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:58,720 Speaker 1: as a kind of slice of life examination of men 1178 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,800 Speaker 1: who will do anything except go to therapy, include paying 1179 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:04,800 Speaker 1: paying for the funerals of people that have wronged them. 1180 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,280 Speaker 1: Like it is just NonStop. I love that at Adam. 1181 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:10,400 Speaker 1: There's so many good at cameos in this movie. Adam 1182 01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,600 Speaker 1: Arkin makes an appearance. I love him. Every time he's 1183 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,160 Speaker 1: on screen, it makes me so happy. Yeah, he's such 1184 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,480 Speaker 1: a little weirdo. I love him. So he's a great director, 1185 01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,960 Speaker 1: but he's also just like such a good actor, And 1186 01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,560 Speaker 1: it's just kind of this. I don't know, it's a 1187 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,920 Speaker 1: real The movie is a real connection to faith and 1188 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,960 Speaker 1: principle and family and value, but absolutely none of those 1189 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,160 Speaker 1: pieces are working together for Larry. So I love this movie. 1190 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:38,160 Speaker 1: I think it's visually incredibly incredibly beautiful, and I just 1191 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,360 Speaker 1: I love it. I just it's the first thing that 1192 01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I thought of when I thought men will do anything 1193 01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:42,760 Speaker 1: except go to therapy. 1194 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good one. It's you know, I always 1195 01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:50,320 Speaker 2: you're right. It was kind of like the Coen Brothers 1196 01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:54,080 Speaker 2: more introspective film that they had done in a while, 1197 01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:59,000 Speaker 2: and I remember people being kind of I mean sometimes 1198 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,800 Speaker 2: a bit confused about what they're what it was saying. 1199 01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,440 Speaker 2: But I thought I was kind of brilliant in that 1200 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:11,520 Speaker 2: way because it is it's kind of like an existential study. 1201 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,760 Speaker 2: But it's also funny because it's the Coen Brothers. Like 1202 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,880 Speaker 2: even though it was sort of one of their more 1203 01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,560 Speaker 2: kind of like uh murkyer mysterious movies, I feel like 1204 01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,080 Speaker 2: the characters are the most Coheny Cohen brother z e 1205 01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,000 Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? Yes, Like all of 1206 01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:34,640 Speaker 2: the people, like the secretaries and the fucking like people 1207 01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,440 Speaker 2: in the offices. Like I was like even though it's 1208 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, it's got a lot to say. You still 1209 01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:47,000 Speaker 2: have an old woman in a moo moo and like 1210 01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:52,360 Speaker 2: some uh, you know, some orthopedic shoes shuffled around in office, 1211 01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:56,640 Speaker 2: like that's still happening. So but I but I love 1212 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,320 Speaker 2: this movie too. I haven't seen it. I think I 1213 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:00,920 Speaker 2: hadn't seen it as it came out. I think I 1214 01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:05,959 Speaker 2: saw twice when it came out. But yeah, such such 1215 01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:10,920 Speaker 2: good acting. I love who is it? Amy Landecker? Is 1216 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,920 Speaker 2: that her name? She plays the like the neighbor who's 1217 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:20,040 Speaker 2: kind of this like bohemian but like real low key. 1218 01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,200 Speaker 1: She's she's When we meet her, Larry's on the roof 1219 01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,840 Speaker 1: trying to fix the antenna and he sees her sunbathing 1220 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,559 Speaker 1: naked in her backyard, and it's kind of like, oh, 1221 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,920 Speaker 1: what's happening here? And then when they by the time 1222 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,000 Speaker 1: they have an actual conversation and she reveals herself to 1223 01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:41,240 Speaker 1: be this, you know, this housewife whose husband travels and 1224 01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:43,400 Speaker 1: she smokes pot all day and just kind of hangs out. 1225 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,400 Speaker 1: But she's so intense in this role, and she just 1226 01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,880 Speaker 1: stares at him constantly and kind of forces him to talk, 1227 01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,559 Speaker 1: which is not a position he's in in most of 1228 01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,240 Speaker 1: his life, except when he's in the classroom when he's 1229 01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,839 Speaker 1: kind of in command of students. But it's she's she's 1230 01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,400 Speaker 1: hilariously spooky and wonderful in this role. 1231 01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,639 Speaker 2: That's great, Well, good choice this week, perfect for the theme. 1232 01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,000 Speaker 1: I also I love I love the bar Mitsva scene too, 1233 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:14,479 Speaker 1: because Danny is stoned out of his fucking mind. It's 1234 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:18,080 Speaker 1: a very Cohen brother scene. It's very very good. But yeah, 1235 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we brought this one to the pod, 1236 01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,280 Speaker 1: even though it's a newer, newer movie was released in 1237 01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, newer for us because it was 1238 01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:26,759 Speaker 1: released in this century. 1239 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:32,360 Speaker 2: Also, I don't know if anybody has has made the 1240 01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:37,000 Speaker 2: decision to put Michael Stoolbarg and Waquin Phoenix and a 1241 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,120 Speaker 2: movie together playing brothers. But if they don't do that now, 1242 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:49,040 Speaker 2: they should do it immediately. Moving on, I suppose with 1243 01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:52,960 Speaker 2: my movie for the week, you ready for this, ready 1244 01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:58,400 Speaker 2: ready for some more men who would rather present themselves 1245 01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,559 Speaker 2: a challenge then go to therapy. My movie for the 1246 01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,840 Speaker 2: theme men will do anything except go to therapy is 1247 01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,719 Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty eight. It was written by Eleanor Perry 1248 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,080 Speaker 2: based on a story of the same name by John Cheever, 1249 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,840 Speaker 2: directed by Frank Perry. Of course it's called The Swimmer. Well, 1250 01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,400 Speaker 2: I've got to be on my way. I'm swimming home. 1251 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:21,800 Speaker 1: You're swimming home. 1252 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:23,559 Speaker 2: I think it out. There's a river of pools all 1253 01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,559 Speaker 2: the way to my house. Crazy idea. 1254 01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:27,960 Speaker 1: I think it's a brilliant idea. 1255 01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,680 Speaker 2: Okay, have you read a lot of John Chever in 1256 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:31,080 Speaker 2: your life? 1257 01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:32,280 Speaker 1: No? 1258 01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:35,320 Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I was kind of obsessed with him for 1259 01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,960 Speaker 2: like six months back in the day. I was like, 1260 01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,439 Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess I was sort of in 1261 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,680 Speaker 2: a mode where I was like, I really want to 1262 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:50,840 Speaker 2: read bi sexual American male writers who write you know, seethings, 1263 01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,960 Speaker 2: takedowns of the American middle class. 1264 01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:54,680 Speaker 1: Uh. 1265 01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,720 Speaker 2: I was just like, let's go. But anyway, this is 1266 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,599 Speaker 2: so The Swimmer is based off of a John Cheever 1267 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:08,080 Speaker 2: story that he wrote for The New Yorker. And we've 1268 01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,120 Speaker 2: talked about Frank and Eleanor Perry before when we did 1269 01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,840 Speaker 2: the movie David and Lisa. So they were a husband 1270 01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,760 Speaker 2: and wife team. You know, Eleanor pretty much wrote the 1271 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 2: films and Frank directed them. And honestly, like they're a 1272 01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:26,440 Speaker 2: great pair. They're very fascinating Frank Perry movies are fantastic, 1273 01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:30,559 Speaker 2: Like didn't direct like a shit ton of films, but 1274 01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,280 Speaker 2: the ones that he directed are all pretty much like 1275 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:39,840 Speaker 2: kind of offbeat bangers, I would say. But this movie 1276 01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,760 Speaker 2: to me is all about Burt Lancaster. And I don't 1277 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,639 Speaker 2: know if we've ever really talked about Burt Lancaster before 1278 01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:50,760 Speaker 2: on the pod. So of course, Burt Lancaster is one 1279 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 2: of the most famous actors, probably of all time, but 1280 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,800 Speaker 2: certainly in classic Hollywood. He was fifty five when this 1281 01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:03,559 Speaker 2: movie came out, which is incredible when you think about 1282 01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,080 Speaker 2: the fact that he spends the entire movie in a 1283 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,160 Speaker 2: bathing suit and like a real skimpy one at that really, 1284 01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,360 Speaker 2: I mean they're not like it's not like European style, 1285 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:17,920 Speaker 2: but it's pretty close. Shows a lot of leg He 1286 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,759 Speaker 2: actually shows his ass in this movie at one point. 1287 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,719 Speaker 1: Literally I was like, God. 1288 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:28,120 Speaker 2: Good for him. But the thing about he was he 1289 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,760 Speaker 2: was known for his athleticism, like he was he was 1290 01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:36,479 Speaker 2: actually an acrobat in the circus at one point in 1291 01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,599 Speaker 2: his career, so he was very fit and he could 1292 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:43,880 Speaker 2: be fifty five running around in a bathing suit like 1293 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,840 Speaker 2: jumping over fences and stuff. But his physicality is a 1294 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,760 Speaker 2: big part of this. I mean you you basically can't 1295 01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,800 Speaker 2: help but look in his body the entire movie, and 1296 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,600 Speaker 2: I think and I think that, like, you know, obviously, 1297 01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,719 Speaker 2: like his body was a huge part of his career. 1298 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,000 Speaker 2: But the one thing I will say about Burt Lancaster 1299 01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:07,240 Speaker 2: is that he's not just looks okay, he's very He's 1300 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,759 Speaker 2: a very interesting person and kind of great to be honest. 1301 01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,559 Speaker 2: He I have to read the second sentence of his 1302 01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,640 Speaker 2: Wikipedia because this really got me. And once I read it, 1303 01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:23,040 Speaker 2: you'll understand why. The second sentence of his Wikipedia says 1304 01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:29,519 Speaker 2: initially known for playing tough guys with a tenderheart, And 1305 01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,920 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that's me. I'm also a tough 1306 01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:37,439 Speaker 2: guy with a tenderheart, I suppose. But that's kind of 1307 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,639 Speaker 2: like what he was definitely like in his early career, 1308 01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:45,040 Speaker 2: Like he was in a lot of noir. He was 1309 01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:52,519 Speaker 2: strongly associated with noir films. He sort of played, you know, 1310 01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:57,320 Speaker 2: like the typical kind of noir man, which obviously is 1311 01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:01,360 Speaker 2: an archetype, a certain type of masculin ley. Right. But 1312 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,240 Speaker 2: I think one of his most famous movies was Sweet 1313 01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,800 Speaker 2: Smell of Success, where he played an asshole like a 1314 01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:11,320 Speaker 2: huge asshole, and I think a lot of people kind 1315 01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,200 Speaker 2: of you know kind He's really known for that film 1316 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,040 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, but then he was also 1317 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,559 Speaker 2: in a lot of different other types of films in 1318 01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:22,880 Speaker 2: that era, and especially as his career went on. Like 1319 01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:25,800 Speaker 2: I mean, he was in From Here to Eternity, which is, 1320 01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,160 Speaker 2: you know, a romance, and he played that you know 1321 01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,800 Speaker 2: role really well, and he my favorite. I think one 1322 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,760 Speaker 2: of my favorite Burt Lancaster movies was this movie called 1323 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,120 Speaker 2: Comeback Little Sheba from nineteen fifty two, and it was 1324 01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:45,080 Speaker 2: actually based off of a play. I think it was 1325 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:49,679 Speaker 2: like a William Inge play. He's so heartbreaking in that film. 1326 01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,880 Speaker 2: He plays basically like a married a guy who's married, 1327 01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,200 Speaker 2: former alcoholic trying to get through his alcoholism. So it's like, 1328 01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,559 Speaker 2: I don't know. He was. Yes, he had the chest 1329 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,040 Speaker 2: of a Greek god, but he also was an incredible 1330 01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:07,640 Speaker 2: actor and showed a lot of emotional range, which I 1331 01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:11,920 Speaker 2: think is great. He was a tough guy with a 1332 01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,400 Speaker 2: tender heart at the end of the day. But I 1333 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:17,400 Speaker 2: think my favorite thing about him is that he was 1334 01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:25,679 Speaker 2: famously very very progressive. He protested against the blacklist during 1335 01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:31,560 Speaker 2: the Huac era. He was actually on Nixon's enemies list 1336 01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:36,360 Speaker 2: for a while. He fought for the rights of minorities. 1337 01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,639 Speaker 2: I mean, he was really big in the civil rights era. 1338 01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,400 Speaker 2: He was anti war, he was anti death penalty, I mean, 1339 01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:49,439 Speaker 2: very early supporter of those who were dying in the 1340 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,800 Speaker 2: aidge crisis. So I mean he was kind of an 1341 01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,880 Speaker 2: amazing dude in that way, and definitely was very politically 1342 01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:58,960 Speaker 2: active and donated a lot of his time and his 1343 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,639 Speaker 2: money and his energy to it's progressive causes, which is cool. 1344 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,679 Speaker 1: I also used to get him confused with Charlton Heston, 1345 01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:11,559 Speaker 1: who's the exact opposite of that. So I had to 1346 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,160 Speaker 1: look it up because I'm like, is he like that 1347 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:19,720 Speaker 1: one or that one? And I'm glad Burn Lancaster is 1348 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,679 Speaker 1: the one I thought he was, and not Charlton Heston, 1349 01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,720 Speaker 1: who is the polar fucking opposite of everything that he 1350 01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:26,320 Speaker 1: just said. 1351 01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:30,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, you couldn't get two more different. 1352 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,120 Speaker 1: Guys, similar era of acting very different dudes. 1353 01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,120 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, which I I mean that is that's fascinating though, 1354 01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,720 Speaker 2: that is a like a fascinating range of people to 1355 01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:45,439 Speaker 2: exist in the same system. But uh, yes, definitely definitely 1356 01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:48,759 Speaker 2: not from my cold dead hand, you know, like at all. 1357 01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,800 Speaker 1: And when you when you picked this movie at first, 1358 01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:59,599 Speaker 1: I'm like, really, that guy and I was wrong. 1359 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,559 Speaker 2: I'm like, that cracks me the fuck up. 1360 01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,479 Speaker 1: She's picking up from my cold Dead Hands movie. All right, 1361 01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:09,360 Speaker 1: let's talk about it. 1362 01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:15,760 Speaker 2: No, no, ma'am. Yeah. So this is the interesting thing 1363 01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:21,080 Speaker 2: about The Swimmer. I mean, so this movie obviously takes 1364 01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,320 Speaker 2: place and was written and directed in the late sixties era. 1365 01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 2: So I mean I kind of joked about mad Men earlier, 1366 01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:31,840 Speaker 2: but I feel like there's a lot of like through 1367 01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,840 Speaker 2: lines between something like mad Men and something like The Swimmer, right, 1368 01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:39,760 Speaker 2: because you've got this like late sixties sort of counterculture 1369 01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,960 Speaker 2: thing happening, which there are definitely like touches of that 1370 01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,960 Speaker 2: in the film, which kind of drive me a little nuts. 1371 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,760 Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, Like He's like, there's like sequences 1372 01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,680 Speaker 2: where you know, Ned Merrill and his babysitter are like 1373 01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:58,000 Speaker 2: trapesing through a field of mary Golds, and the fucking 1374 01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,840 Speaker 2: soft camera work and the like they're being shot through 1375 01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:07,720 Speaker 2: a prism. You know. It's very very hippy hippy dippy shit, right, 1376 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:11,919 Speaker 2: which kind of it's a little it's a little annoying, 1377 01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:16,280 Speaker 2: especially considering like the statement that this movie ultimately is making. 1378 01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,920 Speaker 2: But yeah, some like really corny hippie stylistic choices, but 1379 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,360 Speaker 2: I think ultimately like we're in an era where we're 1380 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:28,360 Speaker 2: processing that, Yeah, it is a form of masculinity. We're 1381 01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,040 Speaker 2: trying to figure out like what the hell is going 1382 01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:35,240 Speaker 2: on with American life, the American dream, you know, manhood. 1383 01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:40,639 Speaker 2: It's a very classicist, you know conversation happening in terms 1384 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:42,880 Speaker 2: of like, you know, you've got these like, you know, 1385 01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,439 Speaker 2: people who are living in these like suburban areas and 1386 01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:50,160 Speaker 2: they're kind of completely tuned out to what the realities 1387 01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,080 Speaker 2: of the world is because they're just rich and they 1388 01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:56,000 Speaker 2: have cocktails and they you know, sit by their pools 1389 01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,760 Speaker 2: and you know, and is that the right thing, right, 1390 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:03,360 Speaker 2: actually when you've got like political unrest in war and 1391 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:08,360 Speaker 2: things like that, social change, right, And obviously that's the 1392 01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:11,960 Speaker 2: John Chiever part coming in. But also with Frank Perry. 1393 01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:14,040 Speaker 2: I mean, Frank Perry's movies were a lot about that 1394 01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:16,600 Speaker 2: kind of stuff too, and Eleanor Perry's screenplays were a 1395 01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,800 Speaker 2: lot about that. So it's just kind of a good 1396 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:21,320 Speaker 2: kind of combo. But you know, I think a lot 1397 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,280 Speaker 2: of people thought this movie was really weird when it 1398 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:25,200 Speaker 2: came out, there are still people who think it's weird, 1399 01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:30,000 Speaker 2: so it kind of developed a cult following, and when 1400 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,120 Speaker 2: it was released on Blue ray was released I believe 1401 01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:35,240 Speaker 2: by grind House Releasing, which you know is kind of 1402 01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,479 Speaker 2: a cult well they are, it's not kind of They're 1403 01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:41,240 Speaker 2: a cult movie DVD label. So I think it was 1404 01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:45,719 Speaker 2: sort of firmly adopted by the cult community when that happened. 1405 01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:50,040 Speaker 2: But I don't know about a one sentence synopsis really 1406 01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,960 Speaker 2: because I just forgot to think of one. But the 1407 01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,600 Speaker 2: beats of the movie it's very simple. So Burt Lancaster 1408 01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:03,519 Speaker 2: plays this middle aged man named Ned Merrill, and he's 1409 01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,360 Speaker 2: an affluent white guy living in the burbs. I think 1410 01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,000 Speaker 2: it's around in Connecticut. Actually, I feel like they shot 1411 01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:13,760 Speaker 2: I think they shot the Swimmer in Frank Perry's hometown 1412 01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,479 Speaker 2: in Connecticut. So it's very much of you know, think 1413 01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,280 Speaker 2: about the Ice Storm, right, that kind of vibe of 1414 01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:25,320 Speaker 2: like these like sprawling like sixties homes with these people 1415 01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:28,880 Speaker 2: who are you know, it's cocktail culture. It's like, you know, 1416 01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:33,040 Speaker 2: drinks by the pool and everyone's just like no responsibilities. 1417 01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:36,240 Speaker 2: Everybody cares about their lawns and their riding lawnmowers and 1418 01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,719 Speaker 2: their pools and their and their friends, right, and it's 1419 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,559 Speaker 2: cocktail parties and all that shit. 1420 01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:41,960 Speaker 1: Right. 1421 01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:46,840 Speaker 2: So at the beginning of the movie, it's basically you 1422 01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,559 Speaker 2: know Ned Merrill slash Burt Lancaster, and he's just like 1423 01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:52,280 Speaker 2: diving into a pool and he's just like this, you know, 1424 01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,120 Speaker 2: very attractive middle aged man tan and he's just sort 1425 01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:57,679 Speaker 2: of like, yeah, I love swimming. And then he gets 1426 01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:02,519 Speaker 2: this idea when he is talking to a set of 1427 01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,719 Speaker 2: his neighbors, a man and a woman, where he's like, actually, 1428 01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:10,880 Speaker 2: I could probably go from house to house, pool to 1429 01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:15,040 Speaker 2: pool across the entire county and make it back to 1430 01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:19,920 Speaker 2: my house just by jumping in people's pools, right, And 1431 01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:25,800 Speaker 2: they're kind of like, why would you do that? Just 1432 01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,240 Speaker 2: come to the cocktail party that our neighbors are having, like, 1433 01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,760 Speaker 2: just put your shirt on and let's just go party, Like, 1434 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:32,639 Speaker 2: why would you wanted to go from pool to pool? 1435 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,479 Speaker 2: And he's just like, it's a challenge. He wants to 1436 01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:36,479 Speaker 2: challenge himself. 1437 01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:37,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an adventure. 1438 01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:44,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an adventure. And very subtly is that a 1439 01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:48,439 Speaker 2: code for this guy? He try to do what other 1440 01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:51,880 Speaker 2: people wanted me to do. Right, He's like, I don't know, 1441 01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:53,840 Speaker 2: he's his own man, and he wants to go on 1442 01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,320 Speaker 2: his own little adventure, just jumping in people's pools, right, 1443 01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:01,160 Speaker 2: So they're like, okay, we'll have fun. Then. So he's 1444 01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, continues to the next house, and he goes 1445 01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,280 Speaker 2: from house to house, and each along the way he's 1446 01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,800 Speaker 2: he's he's interacting with a variety of his neighbors, who 1447 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,320 Speaker 2: again remember the film The Ice Storm, the only movie 1448 01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,840 Speaker 2: Ice Storm think about people like that just very concerned 1449 01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:20,479 Speaker 2: with like frivolous bullshit things. They only care about their 1450 01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:23,880 Speaker 2: kind of social status, and and he's just sort of 1451 01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,400 Speaker 2: interacting with them, and he's very pleasant to them, right, 1452 01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,480 Speaker 2: Like he hey keys and shoots the shit with everybody. 1453 01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:35,080 Speaker 2: He's like slapping little ladies on the ass, and everyone's like, Nettie, 1454 01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:39,160 Speaker 2: way you been baby? Wait? You know they have a rapport, right. 1455 01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:45,639 Speaker 2: But as his journey continues, you start as a viewer, 1456 01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,320 Speaker 2: you start going, Okay, what's up with this? Because some 1457 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:51,120 Speaker 2: people are starting to be like, how's the family, and 1458 01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,720 Speaker 2: he's like, couldn't be better? And then they're kind of 1459 01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,720 Speaker 2: raising their eyebrow. I was like, what are you talking about? Right? 1460 01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:04,439 Speaker 2: So as the movie progresses, there's this question of what's 1461 01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:10,720 Speaker 2: happening with him? Is he lying about himself? Is he delusional? 1462 01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,920 Speaker 2: Are they delusional? Like what's happening? Right? So from pool 1463 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,519 Speaker 2: to pool to pool, everyone's just so like, you're like, 1464 01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,800 Speaker 2: what's up with Ned? Right? At the same time, he 1465 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,880 Speaker 2: starts meeting, you know, certain types of people. So he like, 1466 01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,120 Speaker 2: at one pool he runs into like his old family 1467 01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:32,800 Speaker 2: babysitter and it's this like kind of gidgety, beautiful, young blonde. 1468 01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:38,799 Speaker 2: She's played by Janet Landguard and her name is you know, Julie, 1469 01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:41,599 Speaker 2: and she's just like this bubbly effor vessent like girl 1470 01:23:41,640 --> 01:23:44,680 Speaker 2: in her young twenties, just starting out life. She reveals 1471 01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:48,440 Speaker 2: to Ned that she had this like kind of stockery, 1472 01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,400 Speaker 2: kind of crazy crush on him where she used to 1473 01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,120 Speaker 2: go up to their room and put on his shirts 1474 01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,280 Speaker 2: and shit when she was babysitting for his kids, And 1475 01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:59,840 Speaker 2: he was like, oh really, why didn't you ever tell 1476 01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:00,280 Speaker 2: me this? 1477 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:02,559 Speaker 1: At one point she's like, yeah, I told her I 1478 01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:03,599 Speaker 1: was a spooky little kid. 1479 01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:07,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I was like I was going, you 1480 01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:09,719 Speaker 2: know what, I don't knock this, Like I'm not saying 1481 01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,080 Speaker 2: I put on anybody's shirt. But I do like the 1482 01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,440 Speaker 2: smell of men sometimes, and won't you know the colognes 1483 01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,679 Speaker 2: and things that they wear. I'm not stealing their clothes, 1484 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,320 Speaker 2: but I'm just saying. But she kind of reveals this, 1485 01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:25,479 Speaker 2: you know, this kind of crush to him, and then 1486 01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:29,439 Speaker 2: he suddenly is like, I think in his I don't know, 1487 01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:33,559 Speaker 2: in his enthusiasm for his new task, and he's kind 1488 01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,040 Speaker 2: of like, I'm going on an adventure. Why don't she 1489 01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,840 Speaker 2: come with me, you know, let's do this together. So 1490 01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,120 Speaker 2: she starts traveling around with him, and then you know, 1491 01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,320 Speaker 2: at some point she kind of reveals like, hey, like 1492 01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:46,479 Speaker 2: I live, you know, I'm i might be moving to 1493 01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,640 Speaker 2: the city and every time I'm in the city, I 1494 01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,400 Speaker 2: get like hit on by weird guys, and you know, 1495 01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:55,560 Speaker 2: I'm just like the reality of her actual life becomes 1496 01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,960 Speaker 2: full scope to him, and he realizes that life, her 1497 01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,559 Speaker 2: life is not She's not just a fantasy for him, 1498 01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:03,960 Speaker 2: that she's like a woman in the world that has 1499 01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,920 Speaker 2: to deal with like other men, right, and he wants 1500 01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,880 Speaker 2: to protect her, but she's just like what, like it 1501 01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:15,479 Speaker 2: gets really awkward and she ends up being like bad idea, 1502 01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,200 Speaker 2: shouldn't have shouldn't have come, but it kind of again 1503 01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:20,960 Speaker 2: contributes to this sort of I don't know this, this 1504 01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:26,040 Speaker 2: this sort of feeling within ned that he's definitely questioning 1505 01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:31,240 Speaker 2: life and that there's something happening with him mentally that 1506 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,879 Speaker 2: you don't know yet as a viewer, Right. 1507 01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,280 Speaker 1: It's interesting to kind of try to figure it out 1508 01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:38,600 Speaker 1: as the movie goes along, too, because that's what I 1509 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,600 Speaker 1: found my I'd never seen this before, but that's what 1510 01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:44,040 Speaker 1: I found myself doing. Yeah, as I was watching, I'm like, 1511 01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:46,360 Speaker 1: what exactly is going on with him? And trying to 1512 01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:49,360 Speaker 1: guess and figure it out? Yeah, and I'm like, is 1513 01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:52,040 Speaker 1: this like a like a murder? Did he kill his family? 1514 01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:53,599 Speaker 1: And they're all just kind of trying to be nice 1515 01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,280 Speaker 1: about it in that weird sixties way, like what exactly 1516 01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:58,320 Speaker 1: has gone? Did he have like a mental break? It 1517 01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:00,799 Speaker 1: was interesting to try to figure it out, right. 1518 01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,800 Speaker 2: And then but you know, the thing that's you're absolutely right, 1519 01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,120 Speaker 2: and the thing that becomes even more interesting is that 1520 01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:10,240 Speaker 2: you're not. It's kind of an unreliable narrator scenario too, 1521 01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,040 Speaker 2: because his neighbors suck. I mean, his neighbors. 1522 01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:14,559 Speaker 1: Are are a lot of them are. 1523 01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,840 Speaker 2: Very concerned with status and money to the point where 1524 01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,479 Speaker 2: you know, because they're like, oh God, are you gonna 1525 01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:23,280 Speaker 2: like let that motherfucker around your pool? And you know, 1526 01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:28,160 Speaker 2: maybe it's maybe they're the unreliable narrator. Maybe they're they 1527 01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:31,240 Speaker 2: think this guy is trash when he probably isn't. So 1528 01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:34,559 Speaker 2: it's very hard to tell what's happening, right, But he 1529 01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:37,519 Speaker 2: has these interactions with different people, Like, you know, very 1530 01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,680 Speaker 2: early on, you've got the actress Kim Hunter and as 1531 01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:45,519 Speaker 2: one of the wives. Actually Joan Rivers is in this film. 1532 01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:49,519 Speaker 2: It was her acting debut. There's a very interesting interaction 1533 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,280 Speaker 2: that happens with her and him. At one point at 1534 01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:54,880 Speaker 2: a party, he like I said, interacts with the babysitter. 1535 01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,559 Speaker 2: He at one point interacts with this like little boy 1536 01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:59,400 Speaker 2: who's essentially left on his own. 1537 01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,200 Speaker 1: That freaked me out that part, because he's like, yeah, 1538 01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,360 Speaker 1: my mom's away for vacation, Like there's a maid around, 1539 01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,000 Speaker 1: but I'm mostly just like hanging around this empty ass pool, 1540 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,080 Speaker 1: hopping on the diving board. 1541 01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:16,400 Speaker 2: Like yeah, Like this little kid is probably like eleven twelve, 1542 01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:19,240 Speaker 2: and it's like his parents are divorced and they both 1543 01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,639 Speaker 2: have fucked off and he's just left in an empty pool. 1544 01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,120 Speaker 2: With a maid. You're just like, wow, okay, and. 1545 01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah this symbolism, Oh my god. 1546 01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And you know, so there's that there's like 1547 01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:34,680 Speaker 2: a moment between Ned and that little boy. There's a 1548 01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,000 Speaker 2: moment where he meets up with these two nudists, which 1549 01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,320 Speaker 2: is so that's you get an ash shot of Bert Lancaster. 1550 01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:44,960 Speaker 2: I hope that's not a spoiler alert, but I mean 1551 01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:49,000 Speaker 2: I was like, good for him. My gosh. One of 1552 01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:54,000 Speaker 2: the most interesting interactions that I think is great in 1553 01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:56,479 Speaker 2: this movie is there is a very brief part where 1554 01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:03,920 Speaker 2: Ned interacts with this black chauffeur like a driver, and honestly, 1555 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:07,240 Speaker 2: in that very small amount of time that they spent together, 1556 01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:11,840 Speaker 2: it says a lot about race and class in this neighborhood. 1557 01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:17,519 Speaker 2: Yeah right, which I think is interesting. They did not 1558 01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,360 Speaker 2: have to include that in this film, but the fact 1559 01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:23,120 Speaker 2: that they did, I think is it was great. I 1560 01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,840 Speaker 2: appreciated that because it kind of reminds you about like 1561 01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:32,040 Speaker 2: what his life is or was right, that he was 1562 01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:37,800 Speaker 2: a part of this like system of wealth and whiteness 1563 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:45,680 Speaker 2: and bullshit that either he is no longer in or 1564 01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:48,439 Speaker 2: has been cast out of or something. You don't know 1565 01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:51,920 Speaker 2: what is going on. Or maybe he's rejecting it. You 1566 01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:56,920 Speaker 2: don't know, and again it's sort of slowly is revealed 1567 01:28:57,280 --> 01:28:59,439 Speaker 2: throughout the film. But I mean, I don't want to 1568 01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:03,080 Speaker 2: give it away because it's complicated, and the journey there 1569 01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:05,439 Speaker 2: is so interesting because again you don't know whether or 1570 01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:09,960 Speaker 2: not it's like his denial or his rejection, either personal 1571 01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:14,280 Speaker 2: rejection or rejection from his community. You know, no, right, 1572 01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:19,120 Speaker 2: But I think that generally this movie is I think 1573 01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,720 Speaker 2: it's a cult movie because it is very it's not 1574 01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:26,559 Speaker 2: putting everything on the table all at once in that way. Again, 1575 01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:30,840 Speaker 2: there are some kind of like late sixties LSD influenced 1576 01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,519 Speaker 2: stylistic film choices that I'm like, okay, whatever. I actually 1577 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,639 Speaker 2: heard that Sidney Pollock was brought in at one point 1578 01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:39,360 Speaker 2: to do some reshoots of things, so I don't know 1579 01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:41,800 Speaker 2: if he was responsible for any of that. I doubt it, 1580 01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:45,639 Speaker 2: but we'll see. I mean, I honestly, this movie is 1581 01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,599 Speaker 2: so textured and interesting. I mean, I think there are 1582 01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,479 Speaker 2: people who are a little mystified by it, and that's 1583 01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,680 Speaker 2: okay to me, Like I'm like, okay, well, it's not 1584 01:29:53,760 --> 01:30:02,600 Speaker 2: for everybody, but I think that the ending is really effective. 1585 01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:06,960 Speaker 2: I'll just say I think it is like a very 1586 01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:10,360 Speaker 2: interesting concept for a story generally. I mean it's like 1587 01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,519 Speaker 2: you know, I don't. It's a very unique idea and 1588 01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,960 Speaker 2: being able to access all of these topics through this 1589 01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:23,479 Speaker 2: journey essentially about pools is really cool to me. And 1590 01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,320 Speaker 2: I've been honestly but wanted to do this movie for 1591 01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:27,800 Speaker 2: a very long time. And when you were like, let's 1592 01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,360 Speaker 2: do this theme, I was like, Yep, this is the one. 1593 01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,280 Speaker 1: This man is portaging. He's like, I'm gonna swim in 1594 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,200 Speaker 1: a pool and then walk through the woods for who 1595 01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,000 Speaker 1: knows how long. I'm going to pretend to be a horse. 1596 01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to pretend to race a horse like he 1597 01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:47,840 Speaker 1: is just having a day full of denial and strangeness. 1598 01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:52,559 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean there I was like I was 1599 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,040 Speaker 2: concerned that he was barefoot the entire time. I was like, 1600 01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:56,719 Speaker 2: I don't know, what if you meet a mountain lion, 1601 01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,759 Speaker 2: what are you doing? Like there's a lot of factors 1602 01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,519 Speaker 2: like is there no chafing going on, sir? 1603 01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,840 Speaker 1: Like I guess not, there's branches not, Like he's walking 1604 01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,400 Speaker 1: on mode grass the whole time, like he's walking through 1605 01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:08,840 Speaker 1: the wood. 1606 01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:15,720 Speaker 2: I mean, we know another episode should be like I 1607 01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:18,720 Speaker 2: guess maybe another topic for another episode should be men 1608 01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:25,320 Speaker 2: will do anything except where sunscreen because he has I 1609 01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,280 Speaker 2: was like concerned for his skin. I was like, you've 1610 01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:33,599 Speaker 2: got that old fisherman shoes of the Fisherman Anthony Quinn skin, 1611 01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:37,800 Speaker 2: like I don't got like even Charlton Heston had that 1612 01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:43,559 Speaker 2: skin Crispy Fried Chicken at the gas station skin. 1613 01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:48,680 Speaker 1: And there's also there are really well I really did 1614 01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:51,280 Speaker 1: love this movie. I loved this movie. And there's something 1615 01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:55,519 Speaker 1: that's so interesting to me too about how there are 1616 01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,040 Speaker 1: many moments where you're not sure if he's complicit in 1617 01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:02,360 Speaker 1: being a dick or not, Like is he actually an 1618 01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,479 Speaker 1: asshole or is he a victim of circumstance or like 1619 01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,760 Speaker 1: what is it? Because at one point he goes to 1620 01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,120 Speaker 1: someone's house and she's like, well, what makes you think 1621 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:12,040 Speaker 1: you could swim here? And he's like, well, I'm ned merrill. 1622 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:15,479 Speaker 1: She's like what, Like it's that weird Don Drapery kind 1623 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:17,320 Speaker 1: of thing we were talking about. Yeah, But then there's 1624 01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:20,400 Speaker 1: also a scene later on with a woman. He goes 1625 01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:22,599 Speaker 1: to her house and they've had they've known each other. 1626 01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,360 Speaker 1: You know that he knows most people in this neighborhood anyway, 1627 01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:29,719 Speaker 1: but they've known each other and he kind of hops 1628 01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:31,599 Speaker 1: in the pool and tries the poll her in with him, 1629 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,479 Speaker 1: and she has to fight him off in her own house, 1630 01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:39,080 Speaker 1: and is just really revealing a lot about their relationship 1631 01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:42,360 Speaker 1: in a way that he was really in an aggressive 1632 01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,920 Speaker 1: dickhead to her that he's what's fascinating about his acting 1633 01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:47,639 Speaker 1: in this movie too, is that you can't tell if 1634 01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't remember being that way or if he's just 1635 01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:51,040 Speaker 1: obtuse about it. 1636 01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that I'm glad you brought that part up 1637 01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:57,200 Speaker 2: because I actually really wanted to talk about that part 1638 01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:00,560 Speaker 2: of the movie. Is is that scene with the actress's 1639 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,519 Speaker 2: name Janis Rule. And if you don't know Jannis Rule, 1640 01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:07,639 Speaker 2: she was in a lot of films over the years, 1641 01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:09,799 Speaker 2: but to me, she's in one of my favorite films 1642 01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:13,120 Speaker 2: of all time, Three Women, which we've talked about on 1643 01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:16,519 Speaker 2: the podcast. Very early days. I think she played the 1644 01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:19,840 Speaker 2: woman Willie who was in the pool making the drawings. 1645 01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,760 Speaker 2: She didn't have a speaking part really, but like that's 1646 01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:29,160 Speaker 2: Janis Rule. Weirdly enough, ironically enough, Jannis Rule. At some 1647 01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:33,200 Speaker 2: point when she was acting in the nineteen sixties, probably 1648 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:38,960 Speaker 2: around this time of this movie, she became a therapist. 1649 01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:43,400 Speaker 2: She went to Yeah, she went back to school and 1650 01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:49,080 Speaker 2: basically graduated, and she was a she was acting and 1651 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:55,599 Speaker 2: then being a therapist. That's the full circle for our 1652 01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:56,479 Speaker 2: theme this week. 1653 01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:59,360 Speaker 1: But also her name is Janis Rule, so to me, 1654 01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:01,280 Speaker 1: she's the original job Rule. 1655 01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:03,800 Speaker 2: Mother of Job Rule. 1656 01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,120 Speaker 1: Jo Rul's mom was in Three Women and. 1657 01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:17,720 Speaker 2: But that that whole scene where he, you know, basically 1658 01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:20,720 Speaker 2: thinks that, you know, let the good times roll with 1659 01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:23,040 Speaker 2: this woman that he used to have an affair with, 1660 01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:27,000 Speaker 2: and she is very upset with him. She's just like, 1661 01:34:28,200 --> 01:34:29,920 Speaker 2: get away from me, you know what I mean? 1662 01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:32,800 Speaker 1: Do you remember what you said to me? Like fuck 1663 01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:33,559 Speaker 1: you dude. 1664 01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:38,280 Speaker 2: Well, and then in her way of saying like I 1665 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:41,960 Speaker 2: mean honestly, in this way of advocating for herself as 1666 01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:47,240 Speaker 2: a woman who isn't participating in this, I'll say fandango again, 1667 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:54,640 Speaker 2: this like Connecticut wasp rich person fandango of like she's like, 1668 01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:58,640 Speaker 2: I'm bold enough to be my own woman, and I 1669 01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,519 Speaker 2: don't listen to what other people tell me to do. 1670 01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,320 Speaker 2: And you know this is who I am, and yet 1671 01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:08,120 Speaker 2: you are you access me whenever you want to escape 1672 01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:11,559 Speaker 2: your perfect world and fuck that shit. 1673 01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,360 Speaker 1: Yes he is not part of the charade at all. 1674 01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:19,360 Speaker 2: Yes, And there's something amazing about that to me. I 1675 01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:21,240 Speaker 2: mean sure with you too. I mean it's like it's 1676 01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:26,160 Speaker 2: such a Again, the messaging is kind of tucked into 1677 01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:29,920 Speaker 2: these interactions and it's not like super obvious, but I'm like, yo, 1678 01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,720 Speaker 2: she said a lot. She's saying a lot, you know. 1679 01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:36,160 Speaker 1: And it's also in stark contrast to this other scene 1680 01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:37,880 Speaker 1: because he keeps trying to get women to go with 1681 01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,360 Speaker 1: him on this adventure. Yes, So it's in really start 1682 01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:43,519 Speaker 1: contrast to this other scene with Julie Hooper, who was like, 1683 01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:46,800 Speaker 1: I was infatuated with you to then reach almost the 1684 01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:48,760 Speaker 1: end of the film and find this woman who's like, 1685 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:51,799 Speaker 1: you're fucking disgusting to me, like you were an absolute monster. 1686 01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And again I think that's another component to 1687 01:35:57,160 --> 01:36:00,920 Speaker 2: this this film, this character study of Merrill is where 1688 01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:03,439 Speaker 2: he's just sort of like who is he? 1689 01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:03,800 Speaker 1: Like? 1690 01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:08,720 Speaker 2: Is he to be trusted? Is he somebody who is 1691 01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,920 Speaker 2: like saying, you know, giving the middle finger to like 1692 01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:13,800 Speaker 2: middle class life and he's going to be his own 1693 01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:16,599 Speaker 2: man on his own adventure or is it more complicated 1694 01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:19,000 Speaker 2: than that? Is he actually a bad guy? Did he? 1695 01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:24,479 Speaker 2: Is he delusional? Is he you know, like what is it, 1696 01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:27,640 Speaker 2: you know, metaphor for the American Dream? Perhaps too a 1697 01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,360 Speaker 2: little bit. So it's like, I don't know, it's very interesting. 1698 01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:34,920 Speaker 2: I've always loved this movie because of that, and you know, 1699 01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,559 Speaker 2: again like some people are a little confused by it 1700 01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,800 Speaker 2: maybe or maybe just don't have the patience for it 1701 01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:43,639 Speaker 2: because it's kind of a slow role. But I don't know. 1702 01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:47,759 Speaker 2: To me, it's a perfect movie. Whenever I think about 1703 01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:55,400 Speaker 2: men who probably nego therapy but will swim swim home instead. 1704 01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:58,120 Speaker 1: I will swim every pool instead of going to therapy, 1705 01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:01,519 Speaker 1: every hole in the county. 1706 01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:05,639 Speaker 2: Here I go, oh boy, oh boy, well this is great. 1707 01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:07,600 Speaker 1: That was That was This is a great week of 1708 01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:08,880 Speaker 1: double feech. 1709 01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:13,160 Speaker 2: I agree. Next week is going to be absolutely insane. 1710 01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:18,040 Speaker 2: But in the meantime, if you want to email us, 1711 01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:20,360 Speaker 2: our email address is I Saw what you did pod 1712 01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,679 Speaker 2: at gmail dot com. And of course we love short 1713 01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,639 Speaker 2: questions for bonus episodes, and we also have a po 1714 01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:29,120 Speaker 2: box if you want to send you know, any kind 1715 01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:30,520 Speaker 2: of mail stuffs. 1716 01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,160 Speaker 1: You still have to send me that that fuck you 1717 01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:34,920 Speaker 1: coffee thing that somebody drew. 1718 01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:39,599 Speaker 2: Oh, I have a lot to send you. Somebody's book report, 1719 01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:41,920 Speaker 2: remember somebody wrote us and sent us their book report 1720 01:37:41,960 --> 01:37:45,640 Speaker 2: from like seventh grade. 1721 01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:50,560 Speaker 1: So much of it. But you can find the address 1722 01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,360 Speaker 1: for our po box and a bunch of other stuff 1723 01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:56,360 Speaker 1: about us on our link tree, which you can find 1724 01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,880 Speaker 1: on all of our social media. It's we are at 1725 01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:01,080 Speaker 1: I saw pot on Instagram, I'm blue Sky and Twitter. 1726 01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:03,200 Speaker 1: And you can also send us a voicemail to play 1727 01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:04,880 Speaker 1: on the show. Now, all you have to do is 1728 01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:07,280 Speaker 1: record a voice memo from your on your phone and 1729 01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:09,200 Speaker 1: email it too. I saw what you did pod at 1730 01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:12,040 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Please make it sixty seconds or less 1731 01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:13,679 Speaker 1: and record it in a quiet space. 1732 01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:18,280 Speaker 2: Yep. And we have merch Just go to exactly right 1733 01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:19,600 Speaker 2: store dot. 1734 01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:22,040 Speaker 1: Com and we have bonus episodes. They drop on the 1735 01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:25,280 Speaker 1: main feed on the third Thursday of every month. 1736 01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,479 Speaker 2: All right, Danielle, I. 1737 01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:28,800 Speaker 1: Feel like you should tell them what the movies are 1738 01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:29,479 Speaker 1: for next week. 1739 01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:30,880 Speaker 2: I feel like you should. 1740 01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:35,160 Speaker 1: Okay, our movies for next week are More n Collar 1741 01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:39,040 Speaker 1: from two thousand and two and Monster from two thousand 1742 01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:39,800 Speaker 1: and three. 1743 01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:44,400 Speaker 2: Listen, Danielle, as always a fucking pleasure doing this podcast 1744 01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:47,760 Speaker 2: with you. I love our conversations and I love that 1745 01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:48,360 Speaker 2: you're my friend. 1746 01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:50,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that I'm your I love that I'm 1747 01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:53,640 Speaker 1: your friend and that you're my friend too. Huh so 1748 01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:54,559 Speaker 1: cute the best. 1749 01:38:55,640 --> 01:39:01,960 Speaker 2: Goodbye, everybody, Bye. 1750 01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,920 Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer 1751 01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:10,800 Speaker 1: is Casey O'Brien. Episode mixing and theme music by Tom Bryfogel, 1752 01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,839 Speaker 1: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart, 1753 01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:17,640 Speaker 1: Karen Kilgarriff, and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on 1754 01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:20,680 Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at I Saw pod, and you can 1755 01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:23,000 Speaker 1: email us at I Saw What You Did Pod at 1756 01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:23,400 Speaker 1: gmail