Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week I chat
Speaker 1: with a trailblazer who puts a new spin on pretty.
Speaker 1: We talk passion, purpose, and how good life looks when
Speaker 1: looks aren't your life. These are their stories, but this
Speaker 1: space is for you, the dreamers, doers, and beautiful minds.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pretty Smart. You've seen her on Good Morning America,
Speaker 1: ABC News, and even Dancing with the Stars. Ginger z
Speaker 1: is the first ever female chief meteorologist at a major network.
Speaker 1: She's also the managing editor of the Climate Unit at
Speaker 1: ABC News. She's chased her fair share of weather events
Speaker 1: through the years, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and wildfires, but it
Speaker 1: was weathering, a more personal storm that took her on
Speaker 1: a journey of self discovery. Ginger wrote openly about her
Speaker 1: mental health struggles in her first memoir, Natural Disaster, revealing
Speaker 1: that after getting her dream job at ABC, she checked
Speaker 1: herself into a mental hospital. But Ginger says Natural Disaster
Speaker 1: barely scratched the surface. In her follow up memoir, A
Speaker 1: Little Closer to Home, Ginger is digging even deeper and
Speaker 1: telling us all about finding the calm after the storm.
Speaker 1: So Ginger, I read your first book, Natural Disaster. I
Speaker 1: cover them. I am one, and I wrote you a
Speaker 1: way too personal email about how much it moved me.
Speaker 1: You write about your experience at local affiliates in Michigan
Speaker 1: and Grand Rapids in Maryville, Indiana, and then Chicago for
Speaker 1: five years. And you've always been so intentional and goal oriented,
Speaker 1: so much so that you made your passwords on your
Speaker 1: computers your goals. So at one point it was today's
Speaker 1: show ten yep, And I'm sort of dying to know
Speaker 1: what your password is now how I share it with us?
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you ones that have passed, so
Speaker 2: I still I have versions and different versions of shows
Speaker 2: that I've been pitching, so show names or concepts, I'll
Speaker 2: often put those in there with years or mix them
Speaker 2: up with dogs names and things. I do a lot
Speaker 2: of times now when I have found this great kind
Speaker 2: of fusion of my identity really include a lot more
Speaker 2: personal goals, you know everything, And it's not just goals,
Speaker 2: I guess I've even evolved it into intention and so
Speaker 2: you know how like in yoga, you set an intention
Speaker 2: for your practice. I started doing yoga so regularly I
Speaker 2: was like, wait, I need to set an attention for
Speaker 2: my day. I need to set an intention for my week.
Speaker 2: And it can sound a little cheesy and kind of
Speaker 2: like you know binder journal that says things to you,
Speaker 2: but actually no, and it works a lot like passwords,
Speaker 2: and so I'd say I do them more as intention.
Speaker 1: Though I love the evolution of that. I recently started
Speaker 1: doing affirmations and I thought they were cheesy before, but
Speaker 1: they actually work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there is something to this and I
Speaker 2: am so inspired to keep talking about it because again
Speaker 2: I don't care. And when you said I wrote you
Speaker 2: a way too personal email, first of all, I don't
Speaker 2: think there is anything as too personal, especially from somebody
Speaker 2: who's writing these types of books. So don't worry about that.
Speaker 2: It is the intention of my book, certainly the second one,
Speaker 2: to receive more emails like that, because I've seen the
Speaker 2: circle of mental health life through my first book and
Speaker 2: what it has meant to so many people and still means.
Speaker 2: I mean I had one last week that said you
Speaker 2: saved my life, and it was like, what this is
Speaker 2: still happening. This is talk about feeling emboldened and confident
Speaker 2: in going into a book that that has a whole
Speaker 2: lot more. There is nothing that makes me feel better
Speaker 2: than rolling the dice because I know it's going to
Speaker 2: come back in spades with people telling me their stories,
Speaker 2: so please keep sharing. And it believed me yours was
Speaker 2: not to take away from it, but a lot of
Speaker 2: people had that response. So that's the beautiful part.
Speaker 1: That's the mark of a great story. To back up
Speaker 1: a little bit so we can catch everybody up if
Speaker 1: they haven't read your first book yet. You became the
Speaker 1: first female meteorologist of a major network, and as a
Speaker 1: goal oriented person and someone who had worked so hard,
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the joy and validation that that
Speaker 1: gave you. And in the midst of that, you check
Speaker 1: yourself into a mental health facility almost immediately after getting
Speaker 1: the job. Can you tell us how you decided to
Speaker 1: make that bold decision.
Speaker 2: I think the real change came for a decade. I'd
Speaker 2: been through a really harsh journey in my mental health health,
Speaker 2: with suicide attempts and some big struggles and big traumas
Speaker 2: that I was not addressing whatsoever. I didn't realize how
Speaker 2: much those had to do with where I was, But
Speaker 2: in that moment, the real reason I went to the hospital.
Speaker 2: Was because the entire time I was on my roller
Speaker 2: coaster of a mental health journey, my career had fortuitously
Speaker 2: kept rising, and I was at this I thought crux
Speaker 2: point where I thought everything I have worked for working
Speaker 2: with Diane Sawyer, which was now going to be in
Speaker 2: my reaches because I got this job, it could come
Speaker 2: crashing down if I don't finally attend to the thing
Speaker 2: that I've been ignoring for the last decade. I think
Speaker 2: I was in one of those dark, dark places. I
Speaker 2: was in the midst of a really abusive relationship I
Speaker 2: didn't want to live, except I woke up that one
Speaker 2: morning thinking I don't want to I don't think I
Speaker 2: deserve it, but somebody else does. And if I find myself,
Speaker 2: you know, like Diane Sawyer doesn't want the woman who's
Speaker 2: getting safe by the cops from an abusive boyfriend in
Speaker 2: her show, Like that's not Those two things don't go together.
Speaker 2: And so it was almost like the gravity of my
Speaker 2: goals and my aspirations coming to fruition rocked me to
Speaker 2: a point to say, don't screw this up, and it
Speaker 2: is worth living. Not only worth living, but let's go
Speaker 2: check this out. And see where it takes us. And
Speaker 2: so I don't know without the job, if I would
Speaker 2: have felt good enough. And this speaks a lot to
Speaker 2: where we still are societally. I had a break. I
Speaker 2: was done with my job in Chicago. I had a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks that I was supposed to be moving
Speaker 2: and I felt freedom to go without repercussion. And that's
Speaker 2: something that I still don't think that we I think
Speaker 2: if I went to my boss right now and said, hey,
Speaker 2: I need to go for a week to go to
Speaker 2: a mental health in something or rehab, I think they'd
Speaker 2: be okay with it. Since I've written books and such,
Speaker 2: but I don't know that societally we're even close to
Speaker 2: that on a grand scale. And that's what this type
Speaker 2: of book is meant to do too, is just kind
Speaker 2: of say we have to get there, have to be
Speaker 2: able to treat mental health just like we treat drug
Speaker 2: and alcohol rehabilitation, where not only do we say well,
Speaker 2: good for them, but we're kind of like, that's kind
Speaker 2: of sexy, right, Like you're doing it, you're working on yourself.
Speaker 2: That's what mental health needs to be too there, especially
Speaker 2: now when so many people have been catapulted into a
Speaker 2: place they may never have touched before because of this pandemic.
Speaker 1: I think about people who have rose to like more
Speaker 1: public personas and then years later come out write a
Speaker 1: book about something that's meaningful to them. You get this
Speaker 1: big job that you've worked for your whole life, you
Speaker 1: check yourself into a facility, and then you write a
Speaker 1: book about it, almost immediately and tell the whole world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was definitely a choice where I thought maybe
Speaker 2: I did this too early, and it was, you know,
Speaker 2: right before it went to print. I was like, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe I should have given it a beat, because I
Speaker 2: don't know if I'm ready. And I asked my husband.
Speaker 2: I remember not sleeping that night before it printed because
Speaker 2: I thought, well, once it prints, you can't go back.
Speaker 2: I could have pulled it right then and there. And
Speaker 2: he said, if you aren't going to write a book
Speaker 2: that's going to change somebody's life and upset somebody, then
Speaker 2: you're not going to write a book that's worth reading,
Speaker 2: and you're not going to write a book that means
Speaker 2: anything to anyone. And he was right, you know, And
Speaker 2: it was my first release of my executive level people
Speaker 2: pleaser saying Okay, I'm going to tell you a couple
Speaker 2: of things that are so far from perfect about myself,
Speaker 2: and I guess I don't care, or I'm just going
Speaker 2: to think I'm right here in the middle. It could
Speaker 2: have gone one way or another, and thankfully it went
Speaker 2: the way that you know, I think I got constant support.
Speaker 2: And somebody asked me a question about this, and I
Speaker 2: think was really interesting. They said, what if he were
Speaker 2: in Flint still, would you have ever written this book
Speaker 2: if you didn't think you had the voice or the reach.
Speaker 2: And my answer to that is, I don't know, because
Speaker 2: I can't put myself in that place because I don't
Speaker 2: know what that would feel like. But I do think
Speaker 2: that it is my responsibility of having the privilege of
Speaker 2: this reach, of having this voice, of having the ability
Speaker 2: to do it too, because I got out. I'm the
Speaker 2: lucky one that had the financial support and the family
Speaker 2: support and all the things, and now the voice to
Speaker 2: be able to reach many, many people. So I think
Speaker 2: it was exactly the right time once it printed, and
Speaker 2: once actually, by the time I read my audiobook for
Speaker 2: Natural Disaster, I got done and I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't think I shared enough the legal all the legal changes.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, that was kind of weak hold on.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, that's how it felt. So that's how much
Speaker 2: I changed within a couple of weeks. And that is
Speaker 2: a great lesson from both books, is how temporary those
Speaker 2: feelings can be. And say I had let's just say
Speaker 2: I had done this and my worst nightmares came true
Speaker 2: and that you know, my job says we're not going
Speaker 2: to renew her because we don't really want that stain
Speaker 2: on us or whatever. The stigma might be right, and
Speaker 2: that nobody else hired me. Again, I don't think that
Speaker 2: would have ever happened. I think that that's that's not
Speaker 2: where we are, thankfully societally. I think people are really
Speaker 2: ready to talk about it. We just don't know what
Speaker 2: to do with it. And when I say I checked
Speaker 2: myself into a mental health hospital, people still rise there.
Speaker 2: That's when their eyebrows go oohm, Now what is that?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: Like if I say I have depression or i'm you know,
Speaker 2: people say I suffer with anxiety, we all are like, okay,
Speaker 2: even people that say, oh, I go to a therapist.
Speaker 2: I think at that point we're pretty good. When we
Speaker 2: talk about real severe intervention and real maintenance over time,
Speaker 2: that's why I wanted to write the second book because
Speaker 2: this is not a one and done. It's not like you,
Speaker 2: you know, you go to a physical trainer and you
Speaker 2: get in six shape and you eat right for six months,
Speaker 2: and then you're like, Okay, I'm never going to go
Speaker 2: to the gym again. I'm going to look just like this.
Speaker 2: That's not how mental health works either, And that's the
Speaker 2: other goal of this second book.
Speaker 1: You talk about it, I guess in between books on
Speaker 1: Instagram too, like, I feel really connected to and inspired
Speaker 1: by a lot of your eating disorder and disordered eating posts.
Speaker 1: You just have this incredible way of putting it all
Speaker 1: out there, and it makes people feel connected to you.
Speaker 1: It does the opet of what I think we all
Speaker 1: think it would do. It makes people come closer. But
Speaker 1: you mentioned people pleasing. I wanted to ask you. In
Speaker 1: the first book, you say you came into this world
Speaker 1: ready to say yes, and you call yourself a new soul,
Speaker 1: But you also say that you're a people pleaser and
Speaker 1: embracing the word no in the first memoir was something
Speaker 1: that was difficult from the first book to the second book.
Speaker 1: Where are you at with the word no?
Speaker 2: Ooh oh, I am far from perfect, far from where
Speaker 2: I think I probably will be when I get you know,
Speaker 2: when I keep practicing it. But I have come so far.
Speaker 2: I know my boundaries now, and I have really the
Speaker 2: pandemic I can think for that in part because it
Speaker 2: allowed me to fuse my identity even more. It allowed
Speaker 2: me to go back work on deep traumas and to
Speaker 2: really set intention for where and how I want to
Speaker 2: parent my kids and what I'd like to do and
Speaker 2: where that goes, and setting boundaries. And that's what I'll
Speaker 2: use instead of the word no, because I think I
Speaker 2: still don't like the word no. I think that boundary
Speaker 2: is a better word because it doesn't have to be no,
Speaker 2: it has to be this is what works for me,
Speaker 2: because this is what I need right And I have
Speaker 2: built a career on saying yes. Reading Will Smith's book
Speaker 2: right now, So did he, and he wanted to do
Speaker 2: more and more and more. And I haven't gotten to
Speaker 2: that part in his book, but I think we all
Speaker 2: get there where he realizes the implication of his what
Speaker 2: he thinks on other people. And it's when you start
Speaker 2: impacting negatively the other people around you and yourself with
Speaker 2: the lack of boundary that you really need to reassess.
Speaker 2: And I was so grateful that within the pandemic it
Speaker 2: said no for me, and then I was able to
Speaker 2: take a step back and say, wait a minute, this
Speaker 2: is the part I need to work on. So thank
Speaker 2: you world for stopping in the very weirdest way just
Speaker 2: for that moment, so that I could go into the
Speaker 2: next part with some priorities and boundaries.
Speaker 1: When you became the first female meteorologist of a major network,
Speaker 1: what did that title mean to you?
Speaker 2: So there had been so many women that have paved
Speaker 2: the way in television first right. I work with some
Speaker 2: of them, Barbara Walters and Diane Sawyer, and I think
Speaker 2: a lot about what it meant for them back then,
Speaker 2: specifically Diane, because she did start out doing weather. She
Speaker 2: was an actual weather woman, I will say, because she
Speaker 2: was not educated or trained. And I think that broadcasting
Speaker 2: did a disservice to the science of meteorology because they
Speaker 2: didn't start with scientists on TV. It started with people
Speaker 2: who were not And so to be able to watch
Speaker 2: this transition that really hasn't it's pretty young. I mean
Speaker 2: since the eighties when women started to be able to
Speaker 2: know I mean, there are a couple before that, but
Speaker 2: really the big change, especially in local markets, came eighties,
Speaker 2: nineties and two thousands. So to be able to be
Speaker 2: in a position as a chief meteorologist at a network
Speaker 2: that nobody has been a meteorologist, let alone a woman
Speaker 2: who's a meteorologist, there's a big learning curve for our
Speaker 2: audience and for the network kind of even produce and
Speaker 2: stuff that I work with. I think if we went
Speaker 2: around ABC right now and asked what is ginger Z's title,
Speaker 2: I don't know if they would know that I actually
Speaker 2: have a scientific background and education, because it takes a
Speaker 2: long time to educate people about who you are, right
Speaker 2: and what your background is and what you can do. Constantly,
Speaker 2: our whole lives are about reintroducing ourselves. Doesn't it just
Speaker 2: feel like like the perpetual first date, Like everywhere you
Speaker 2: go you're like, oh, right, you don't know anything about me? Okay,
Speaker 2: you got to kind of it really humbles you back
Speaker 2: to that point and how I feel great. I feel
Speaker 2: extreme excitement because I think there's such opportunity, but I
Speaker 2: have to constantly remind myself when things don't go quite
Speaker 2: as planned that we've come a long way, you know,
Speaker 2: and being in this position have I am so lucky
Speaker 2: that so many people started before me. But now I
Speaker 2: have this place where I can really push forward, break glass,
Speaker 2: smash walls, and hopefully do as much as I can
Speaker 2: before they kick me out.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're kicking you out anything. What do
Speaker 1: you think the biggest or one of the biggest shifts
Speaker 1: is that you've made on ABC and vice versa. How
Speaker 1: has the title and the position changed you?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, it's has changed, you know, like when you
Speaker 2: most people, when you get into broadcasting, I'll think that
Speaker 2: the network is the top. This is it. This is
Speaker 2: the best, biggest job out there in what I do,
Speaker 2: and it is. But once I settled in after the
Speaker 2: first two three years, I realized, wait a minute, it's
Speaker 2: not the top. This is just the beginning again. I'm
Speaker 2: starting over. I'm starting over not only in educating people
Speaker 2: who I am and where I am and what I do,
Speaker 2: but in what I want to leave as a legacy.
Speaker 2: And so I realized that, you know, my thirty seconds
Speaker 2: talking about windshill and then you know, doing whatever I
Speaker 2: do is wonderful and it's a great kind of beacon
Speaker 2: at the top. But they have to build the whole
Speaker 2: pyramid of what I want to leave behind and what
Speaker 2: I want. So I've built this incredible weather team of
Speaker 2: meteorologists behind the scenes. I've now started and really worked
Speaker 2: hard for an actual organized climate unit, which I've been
Speaker 2: fighting for for three years. That's come to fruition, and
Speaker 2: the next level for me is not only producing kind
Speaker 2: of long form climate series environmental series, but I want
Speaker 2: so badly as I've always wanted to do, to be involved,
Speaker 2: if not the face of the newest entertainment scientists. You know,
Speaker 2: there was mister Wizard who I grew up with, then
Speaker 2: there was Bill Nye. We have not had another one
Speaker 2: kind of gelled together for the kids of today. And
Speaker 2: if that's not a woman, I don't want to be
Speaker 2: a part of it, right, A lot of it's got
Speaker 2: to be a woman. And if it can't be me
Speaker 2: because I'm aging out or something, and it's got to
Speaker 2: be like a YouTube scientist, I'm there for her. I
Speaker 2: want to produce her. It doesn't matter. I just want
Speaker 2: to be a part of that. And so I think,
Speaker 2: you know, you realize that you have so much more
Speaker 2: to give, and that's why I'm sure there are a
Speaker 2: lot of people like us. I think we'll always feel underutilized,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense, Like, wait a minute, I could
Speaker 2: do so much more, Well, then go do so much more.
Speaker 2: And that's what I've been grateful for. ABC and GMA
Speaker 2: specifically have been such great platforms. I think of them
Speaker 2: as the starting point now and I got a climb again.
Speaker 1: When you did Dancing with the Stars. Were you nervous
Speaker 1: at all that people wouldn't take you seriously as a
Speaker 1: scientist and meteorologist.
Speaker 2: I hoped they wouldn't so that I could inform them
Speaker 2: else the other way.
Speaker 1: Really, I hope for.
Speaker 2: Those conversations because I don't expect it, you know, Unfortunately
Speaker 2: we're just I don't know that we're there. And so
Speaker 2: I always loved when people would be like, oh, how
Speaker 2: can you put stepret in an address on a dance
Speaker 2: and then think that you're a scientist. I'm like, I know,
Speaker 2: is this amazing? The doctor that you go to can
Speaker 2: also play racquetball, and you know they can do anything.
Speaker 2: The female doctor that's my best friend, she still today
Speaker 2: walks into deliveries and one of the people in the
Speaker 2: room will say, when is the doctor coming? It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: What not just this science goes through, so I say,
Speaker 2: dive into it, go so far left that they can't
Speaker 2: even comprehend, and then inform them that all people, not
Speaker 2: just female scientists, but all people, are complex human beings
Speaker 2: who are able to do many things, super skilled and
Speaker 2: talented beyond and that's how we should look at people
Speaker 2: and stop with the one. You know, I wrote about
Speaker 2: it in the new book, and I said, it's like
Speaker 2: it's like it's like the world wants us all to
Speaker 2: have the chiron that lower third on television, that just
Speaker 2: gives you one title. That's not fair. That's not who
Speaker 2: we are. Each part of us has such complex layers
Speaker 2: of identity, and that's where we get in trouble when
Speaker 2: we don't realize or give empathy to all the other
Speaker 2: layers in between.
Speaker 1: I'm always pretty taken by your limitless thinking, because I think,
Speaker 1: specifically in broadcast and in traditional media, you're so molded
Speaker 1: like there is only one archetype. And have you always
Speaker 1: been able to see beyond that or was that something knew?
Speaker 2: How lucky I was that I didn't go to school
Speaker 2: for it? I think because I think had I or
Speaker 2: I didn't want it in the beginning, You know, I
Speaker 2: went to college not thinking I was going to get
Speaker 2: into television at all, and I didn't study television, and
Speaker 2: so I do think that I was fortunate to have
Speaker 2: a science education and then more of an experiential on
Speaker 2: the way up through broadcasting communication. And so I do
Speaker 2: think that I would always look at in my early jobs,
Speaker 2: I'd be looking around. I would see people doing the
Speaker 2: same things the vagina hands. They would do the voice
Speaker 2: that sounded like somebody else's voice and then talk to
Speaker 2: me and sound different. And because I hadn't grown up
Speaker 2: with that ideal, I think that helped a lot. It
Speaker 2: didn't mean that I didn't fall into it. At times.
Speaker 2: I can go back and find some not the hands.
Speaker 2: But I do find some times where I'm like, what
Speaker 2: am I doing all my voice there? Because I'm worried
Speaker 2: about somebody taking me seriously with a high pitched voice
Speaker 2: or something. But I'm so grateful that I had that,
Speaker 2: And I constantly when I was teaching at Valpareizo, I
Speaker 2: would constantly tell my students look around, find that singular,
Speaker 2: that archet type that people do all the time, and
Speaker 2: don't do that right, find your things that you the
Speaker 2: one that get that got me back then, and and
Speaker 2: when I got to the network, it's almost impossible to
Speaker 2: not do take a look as you can see any
Speaker 2: of the stuff that's like, well, obviously we're saying it's
Speaker 2: on television, right. But there are times, yes, the crutch
Speaker 2: words are like the very cliche. And I've been pretty
Speaker 2: pretty outspoken in that in finding those words. And even
Speaker 2: like the word motorist because of the Virginia thing that
Speaker 2: just happened. I was like, okay, team, we are never
Speaker 2: because would you say, hey, Mom, I saw a motorist
Speaker 2: the other day. And no, it's the weirdest word I know.
Speaker 2: I don't even like the word resident's aid of what
Speaker 2: a resident what? It gives you? No character and depth
Speaker 2: And there we go. That's what it is. Is like,
Speaker 2: we don't need just the lower third of what an
Speaker 2: anchor looks like, of what a meteorologist sounds like or does.
Speaker 2: I think each person is so fun and unique and
Speaker 2: has such story to them that they should be able
Speaker 2: to use that. I'm a consultant nightmare. I mean I
Speaker 2: really am, because they go through and they want you
Speaker 2: to have the same hair and the same clothes and
Speaker 2: all of those things, and I'm like, that's not me.
Speaker 1: Sorry, and that's why you got hired. But I want
Speaker 1: to talk about your second book. I really liked the title,
Speaker 1: and then when I researched what it meant to you
Speaker 1: it was, it felt even more meaningful. So how did
Speaker 1: you choose the title?
Speaker 2: So I worked. I worked at NBC stations and had
Speaker 2: grown up watching NBC stations my whole life, and so
Speaker 2: I grew up watching Al Roker say in your neck
Speaker 2: of the Woods, and I remember that being so just memorable, right,
Speaker 2: And I thought, well, there are a couple of reasons
Speaker 2: why it's memorable. Its shorts quick, it fits him, it
Speaker 2: feels like and because he's been doing it a long time.
Speaker 2: And so when I got the job at ABC, not
Speaker 2: only did I say, let me get my brain right,
Speaker 2: you know, get some mental health help, but I also said,
Speaker 2: I've got to work on that thing that I'm going
Speaker 2: to toss to the local cutaway and make it mine
Speaker 2: because I fully intend in my passwords to be here
Speaker 2: for a very long time, and that was my goal.
Speaker 2: And so I knew that had to mean something to me.
Speaker 2: And I love the idea. I thought a lot about
Speaker 2: what is it when I'm tossing to a local affiliate
Speaker 2: in back in grad Rapids where I worked. What do
Speaker 2: I want them to feel? I want them to feel
Speaker 2: like I'm checking in their house. That's what TV is.
Speaker 2: I'm checking in a little closer to home. And that's
Speaker 2: why a little closer to home became the thing that
Speaker 2: I say. That then tells the control room, Okay, it's
Speaker 2: time to go to the you know, the local weather,
Speaker 2: and that felt like the right fit. Then when I
Speaker 2: was wrote this book or started writing the book, I
Speaker 2: really the first one, natural Disaster. I wrote the title
Speaker 2: before I wrote the book because it was that easy.
Speaker 2: It was the easiest one. That's me. This one. I
Speaker 2: was throwing around different ideas and I didn't really love anything.
Speaker 2: And then my husband sage advice that he always has.
Speaker 2: He's like, what about your little closer to Home? And
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, that's it. I mean,
Speaker 2: the book's a lot closer to home, but it fits.
Speaker 2: It's exactly the right When you.
Speaker 1: Say it's a lot closer to home, do you mean
Speaker 1: in what you're sharing or what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Yes, in what I'm sharing. So the first one, the
Speaker 2: first book was written mostly on airplanes. But when I
Speaker 2: was Dancing with the Stars, it was, you know, written
Speaker 2: at thirty five thousand feet, and I think it feels
Speaker 2: like that, I think when I especially when I go
Speaker 2: back and read it again, it feels like only the
Speaker 2: very outside the exosphere of our atmosphere. Right, That's how
Speaker 2: I can make the analogy. And it's wonderful because I
Speaker 2: realized that I didn't even need to share more than
Speaker 2: that to be able to get the responses that I was.
Speaker 2: But as I went through and the publisher said, you know,
Speaker 2: people liked it a lot. They love the tools. They
Speaker 2: want you to share more of those tools that you learned,
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, I'll start writing some of those down again.
Speaker 2: But I didn't really have like a vision for the book.
Speaker 2: And then I was at work and it was seven
Speaker 2: am on the Dot and we had the cold open
Speaker 2: of the show, which is when you kind of hear
Speaker 2: that sound from whatever the news headline is, and it
Speaker 2: was Christine blase Ford giving her testimony in the Brett
Speaker 2: Kavanaugh try and here was a woman crystal clear at
Speaker 2: seven am hit me, slapping me out of the blue.
Speaker 2: It felt like talking about sexual assault and rape. And
Speaker 2: that was the conversation of the morning, and it hit
Speaker 2: deep inside me to a trauma that I had not
Speaker 2: dealt with, I had not looked back at, and I
Speaker 2: had told very very few people in my life about
Speaker 2: my husband, one therapist once. Really limited numbers of people
Speaker 2: knew this about my life because it was something that
Speaker 2: I had tried to run away for a very long time,
Speaker 2: which is totally normal for someone who's been sexually assaulted
Speaker 2: or raped. And that was just it hit me. In
Speaker 2: that moment. I started bawling, and my producer and best
Speaker 2: friend Sam, she said, do I need to tell them
Speaker 2: you can't do the show this morning? Like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Are you okay? What's happening? I told her, and then
Speaker 2: I realized I have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 2: And that's what this book is about, is about realizing
Speaker 2: that even somebody who's writing a book about trauma or
Speaker 2: about mental health doesn't mean you're done. It's just a
Speaker 2: constant maintenance and it's a constant digging. And so that
Speaker 2: book was that first one was thirty five thousand feet.
Speaker 2: This one was written in a pandemic in my basement,
Speaker 2: on my couch, and I think it's your home, in
Speaker 2: my home, a lot closer to home, and so not
Speaker 2: only does it get into topics much deeper than the
Speaker 2: first one did, it still has humor, It still has
Speaker 2: all the things I hope people and it is my voice.
Speaker 2: They changed barely anything in this one, thankfully, and it
Speaker 2: just feels like me, I.
Speaker 1: Can't wait to read it, you know, with the pandemic,
Speaker 1: I hear this in media, but I truly believe that
Speaker 1: the real pandemic that's coming next is mental health. I
Speaker 1: think have opened the conversation, but are nowhere near really
Speaker 1: where it should be. What do you see coming in
Speaker 1: terms of mental health and where do you think we
Speaker 1: still like what needs to happen for people to truly
Speaker 1: talk about it in a way, like at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the interview said, there's still you know, you say
Speaker 1: hospital and there's people's eyebrows.
Speaker 2: Go up, the most extreme cases and people who have
Speaker 2: dealt with PTSD And now I'm not talking about schizophrenics
Speaker 2: or some of the disorders and diseases that are not
Speaker 2: environmental or able to be helped by therapy and medicine. Right,
Speaker 2: So there are different categories, and I don't want to
Speaker 2: lump everybody in, but if we're talking about the rampant depression, anxiety,
Speaker 2: and the part that I believe you're speaking about because
Speaker 2: of the pandemic. I think that the biggest This is
Speaker 2: going to sound strange because it's part of the problem,
Speaker 2: but I think it can be part of the solution.
Speaker 2: I think technology can end up being a big part
Speaker 2: of the solution.
Speaker 1: Really, I do.
Speaker 2: There's a group who is doing this test in high
Speaker 2: schools in Philadelphia with an anonymous app where they are
Speaker 2: able to anonymously say click on an app and say
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about taking my own life, or I know
Speaker 2: my best friend has spoken regularly about taking their own life,
Speaker 2: or even something as I'm afraid of you know what
Speaker 2: my parents will think about this and I'm feeling a
Speaker 2: lot of stress about it. So they have different layers
Speaker 2: of this anonymous and now, of course it's not fully
Speaker 2: anonymous in like the deep tech of it, but it
Speaker 2: is an outlet. It's the first outlet. And when we
Speaker 2: talk about you know, okay, here's a number if if
Speaker 2: you or someone you know is thinking about suicide, which
Speaker 2: is helpful. I think that the way that our brains
Speaker 2: work right now we should probably lean into, and that
Speaker 2: is I want to be able to hit an app
Speaker 2: and say I don't feel right. You want to do
Speaker 2: that with medicine, right, You want to be able to
Speaker 2: do that with if you need if you want to
Speaker 2: know if you have COVID or not. Wouldn't it be
Speaker 2: great like it's So this is kind of that transition
Speaker 2: to it. Now in the school setting, they're going to
Speaker 2: have counselors on hand with the app so they can say, Okay,
Speaker 2: we hear you, we're available, we can come to you.
Speaker 2: You could come to us, or if you want to
Speaker 2: keep texting right now, we're happy to do that. And
Speaker 2: it will give this It will give the first line
Speaker 2: much easier than making a phone call for a teenager,
Speaker 2: much easier, and it will give that really great opportunity
Speaker 2: that could give the slice of hope or sunshine that
Speaker 2: I think that a lot of people in those places
Speaker 2: need to tell them. What you're feeling right now is temporary.
Speaker 2: You will feel differently tomorrow, maybe not that much differently,
Speaker 2: but things will change. And that's the thing is life
Speaker 2: will change. So that little we always wonder what would
Speaker 2: we say to ourselves if we went back right, what
Speaker 2: would be our advice? And I don't know if perspective
Speaker 2: is possible without experience, but I do think that sharing
Speaker 2: those little tiny seeds could grow into something. And I
Speaker 2: think that in that way, if we could get that
Speaker 2: what this app is doing for this school, and they've
Speaker 2: seen fantastic results already, if we could get that for societally,
Speaker 2: I think we'd be in a much better place, because
Speaker 2: right now it's hard to find a therapist right the
Speaker 2: access is difficult for people financially. The access like even
Speaker 2: for my husband. He was saying, it feels like tinder,
Speaker 2: like how do I know what these people do? I'm
Speaker 2: not informed about this. And so I think what hopefully
Speaker 2: medicine in mental health, medicine will do is say, okay,
Speaker 2: And this is why I think hospitals could be way better.
Speaker 2: But are a great place to start. Let's funnel everybody
Speaker 2: to the one place, just like you'd go to your
Speaker 2: general practitioner, for you have to go there first. Then
Speaker 2: they put you off. If your knee hurts, they put
Speaker 2: you off to the guy who does needs or the
Speaker 2: gal who does needs, and they don't send you the
Speaker 2: ear nose and throat person. But when we are blindly
Speaker 2: looking through therapists, we're definitely going to the ear nose
Speaker 2: and throat person when we're supposed to be going to
Speaker 2: the foot pediatrist of your brain, and that needs to
Speaker 2: be work done. And I think everybody it's so hard
Speaker 2: to navigate and if you're in a dark place, the
Speaker 2: last thing you're going to do is go figure out
Speaker 2: who to get to help you through this. And that's
Speaker 2: why teams have to be a part of So this
Speaker 2: is kind of the next layer, is like that community
Speaker 2: of understanding. So it takes a lot of edguc for
Speaker 2: people to learn about what it takes. Even with my husband,
Speaker 2: I have to I'm like the one writing books on it.
Speaker 2: And it's hard because he's like he picked one, went
Speaker 2: to a couple of sessions. He's like, I don't think
Speaker 2: it's the right fit. And I said, then we move on.
Speaker 2: You got to move on. You got to also be
Speaker 2: ready to say this is going to be hard. This
Speaker 2: isn't just a one and done. I am doing this
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. I'm going to be
Speaker 2: in therapy for the rest of my life. And once
Speaker 2: you kind of commit to that, that's like committing to
Speaker 2: the gym. The same thing it's committing to the gym
Speaker 2: of your brain and if you're fortunate enough to have
Speaker 2: a personal trainer slash therapist outstanding and I think, I
Speaker 2: hope my goal is to help everybody have access to that,
Speaker 2: and if we can't, and we can't right now, then
Speaker 2: to share tools that people can do right now, to
Speaker 2: focus on that are free, that are easy, that I
Speaker 2: call like the sit ups of my brain, because we
Speaker 2: all have access to the gym in our lives right
Speaker 2: hold a plank right now. You don't need to go
Speaker 2: to a personal trainer. We can do this, And so
Speaker 2: I think it's sharing that information and making it super
Speaker 2: normal and then doing it in groups so that it
Speaker 2: becomes the norm that if you and I were friends
Speaker 2: for a long time, we sit and we have mental
Speaker 2: health check ins and we start talking about you know,
Speaker 2: like we're not experts and we're not going to be
Speaker 2: able to diagnose each other, but the moment you talk
Speaker 2: about it and put words to what you're feeling the moment,
Speaker 2: some of the control and power changes and shifts in
Speaker 2: the best way. And so I think those are the
Speaker 2: things that we can start doing right now, and we are.
Speaker 2: We're doing it right now, but take to that next
Speaker 2: place Jane Norman, a woman I work with and one
Speaker 2: of the chapters of my new book, I said that
Speaker 2: my new advice sounds really bad from someone who has
Speaker 2: twice attempted suicide. But I always say that what I
Speaker 2: would tell my younger self is it doesn't matter and
Speaker 2: nobody cares because it doesn't really matter. Is applicable to
Speaker 2: almost everything that we're concerned about.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I asked you when the last time
Speaker 2: you lost sleepover something, do you remember what you lost sleepover?
Speaker 1: Yeah, only because it was like two days ago. But
Speaker 1: if you were to ask me otherwise, no, right now,
Speaker 1: not even a week ago, could I tell you?
Speaker 2: Right? And even the two nights ago? Yeah, And there
Speaker 2: are things that will matter. And what I do is
Speaker 2: I ask myself, will I remember this in a month.
Speaker 2: Am I going to remember this a year from now?
Speaker 2: If I'm going to remember it a year from now, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm allowed to put energy toward that. And you have
Speaker 2: to let things feel and let them suck. Just let
Speaker 2: it suck and let and you got to move through
Speaker 2: it because trauma is trauma. You can't erase it, you
Speaker 2: can't delete trauma, but you have to process it so
Speaker 2: that it does not cause stress for the rest of
Speaker 2: your life. And if you don't do that, that's what
Speaker 2: really my book is about, is the old cover up
Speaker 2: of trauma. And that's what I was really good at.
Speaker 2: I was like expert at shoving a bunch of like
Speaker 2: taking a wound, putting some dirt in it, covering it
Speaker 2: with sticks, and then putting a bandage as if nothing
Speaker 2: ever happened, but that festering wound was going to be
Speaker 2: there forever. And I had several of those that I
Speaker 2: had to dive into, clean up and learn how to
Speaker 2: do better next time.
Speaker 1: I have a few really quick, rapid fire questions before
Speaker 1: you leave me. One is, besides your actual physical home,
Speaker 1: where feels like home to you?
Speaker 2: Oh, Lake Michigan.
Speaker 1: What is the smartest decision you've ever made?
Speaker 2: Letting him love me? Letting me be loved. That's the
Speaker 2: better way, because even with my children, and that's why
Speaker 2: I think, I think children come as a result of him,
Speaker 2: And so I would say allowing myself to be loved
Speaker 2: and then learning through that how to love myself.
Speaker 1: Is there a book that changed your life or a
Speaker 1: book that you think everybody should read?
Speaker 2: I mean, I always love self help that type. And
Speaker 2: you know, Dan Harris's book about meditation changed my life
Speaker 2: because it changed how I saw meditation and atomic habits,
Speaker 2: which is something that I just more recently read, is
Speaker 2: also a way to shift little little things in your
Speaker 2: brain that are so easy.
Speaker 1: I know that you have a really nice relationship with
Speaker 1: Robin Roberts. If you could share one takeaway from that friendship,
Speaker 1: what would it be?
Speaker 2: Grace. She's the epitome of grace. Even if she doesn't
Speaker 2: agree with someone or she doesn't She's what the world
Speaker 2: needs to be right now. They should take masterclass. Well
Speaker 2: she did do a master class, but lessons from her
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 1: And on your Instagram. One of my very favorite things
Speaker 1: you do is you show so many great green swaps,
Speaker 1: and the best part is that they're pragmatic, like you
Speaker 1: can actually.
Speaker 2: Do everybody can do them, and they're usually cheaper. I
Speaker 2: try to be really cognizant of the cost because I
Speaker 2: know that privilege sometimes comes with these things, but there's
Speaker 2: also a lot of misinformation about products and things.
Speaker 1: Yes, so if you can share one that you think
Speaker 1: you came in contact with recently, or one that everybody
Speaker 1: can do.
Speaker 2: I'm really proud that I've gotten my husband, the paper
Speaker 2: towel user off of paper towels, so we use something
Speaker 2: called an unpaper towel. For the last three years, we
Speaker 2: have not purchased any paper towels, much to my I
Speaker 2: think mother in law chagrin. She's always like, what do
Speaker 2: I wipe this up with? I'm like a towel, just
Speaker 2: to the towel, regular towel. Yeah, it's what we always
Speaker 2: did have before paper became the thing. And are you
Speaker 2: know we have a nanny that helps us out. And
Speaker 2: she was even saying that I've changed her and they
Speaker 2: stopped buying paper towels, and I was like, it's happening
Speaker 2: one at a time. Sorry, paper towel companies, you are
Speaker 2: not going to be a fan of mine.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. My mom would never use them growing up.
Speaker 1: She would yell at me, yes, what's the use? Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so on paper towels. I love it. Ginger, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: All Right, today's a good day.
Speaker 2: To have a good day.
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.