1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, Everybody. Coming up soon on the show, we 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: have an episode that touches on the history of a 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: university that was originally established for white students only. At 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: the time, though, US society was largely conceived as having 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: two races, black and white, so students from other racial 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: and ethnic groups were included at least to some extent 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: earlier on, but we're classed as white while black students 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: were specifically excluded. We have talked about the expanding and 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: evolving definitions of racial and ethnic classification in the US, 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: including changes to how the fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: has been interpreted a few times on the show, and 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: one of those is our episode on Hernandez versus Texas, 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: which originally came out on September. So we're bringing that 14 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: out as Today's Saturday Classic to give you some more 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: context for that forthcoming episode. And yes, something that comes 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: up in this episode. I do still hope at some 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: point to do an episode on the g I Bill 18 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. 20 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: I am Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. So 21 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: it's been a while since we've had a Supreme Court 22 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: case on the show as a guest as a guest, right, uh, 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: And that's become a theme sort of on on at 24 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: least in terms of yours and my time on the show, Holly. 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: We've had several Supreme Court episodes, and I think the 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: last one that we had was one of the goofier 27 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: ones because we talked about Butter versus Margarine. This one 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: is not a goofier one. Today we are talking about 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: Hernandez versus Texas, which got a brief mention in our 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: past episode on Marcario Garcia, and that was the first 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Mexican immigrant to the United States to earn the Medal 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: of Honor. And in addition to tying directly to civil 33 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: rights for Mexican Americans, Hernandez versus Texas was also the 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: first case to be argued before the Supreme Court by 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: Mexican American attorneys, and it set off a whole new 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: precedent and how the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution was 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: interpreted in terms of race and ethnicity. A lot of 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: the stuff that we're talking about today generally applied more 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: broadly to pretty much everybody of Hispanic or Latino descent, 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: but specifically the people that we were talking about, our 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: our Mexican Americans. So the other thing is this was 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: decided it right before Brown versus Board, like a week 43 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: or two before the decision came down in Brown versus Board. 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: So in a lot of ways, it was completely overshadowed 45 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: by that way more famous decision, although it was really 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: important in its own way. And Hernandez versus Texas began 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: with a murder, and the facts of that murder were 48 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: really not in dispute. On August four, nine, one Pedro Hernandez, 49 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: who by Pete, got into an argument with Gitano Espinoza, 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: who was known as Joe at Chinko Sanchez's tavern in Edna, Texas. 51 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Edna is southwest of Houston and southeast of San Antonio, 52 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: and sits roughly between those two cities. It's not clear 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: exactly what started to this argument, but according to witnesses, 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: at some point Espinoza started making fun of Hernandez because 55 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: he had a club foot, and Hernando left the bar. 56 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: He walked home, got a rifle, came back and shot 57 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: Espinoza in the chest in front of witnesses. Espinoza died 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: not long after reaching the hospital in less than twenty 59 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: four hours after the crime. Hernandez was indicted for murder. 60 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Four days later, he was denied bail. Hernandez his mother 61 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: went to Gustavo Garcia known as GUS, for help, and 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: Garcia was a prominent civil rights lawyer in San Antonio. 63 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: He served as a legal adviser to the League of 64 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: United Latin American Citizens or LULAC, which was the first 65 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: civil rights organization and for Mexican Americans in the United States, 66 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: and he served in that same capacity for the American 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: g I Forum, which was formed in the wake of 68 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: World War Two to help Mexican American veterans get access 69 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: to the benefits they were entitled to under the g 70 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: I Bill of Rights. I kind of want to do 71 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: an episode at some point about the g I Bill, 72 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: because the language in the bill didn't have anything related 73 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: to race or ethnicity in it, but the way it 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: was actually implemented it was a lot easier for white 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: returning veterans to get access to the benefits that were 76 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: involved and pretty much anyone else. So has a really 77 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: complicated history in terms of how and who it allowed 78 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: to get access to things like education and buying new 79 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: homes and things like that. So by the time he 80 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: agreed to represent Pete Hernandez, Garcia had been involved with 81 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: some of the biggest civil rights cases for Mexicans and 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: Mexican Americans in Texas. He had worked as a legal 83 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: advocate for migrant workers in the Brasil euro program, which 84 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: we've talked about on the show before. He had also 85 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: been part of the team in del got O versus 86 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: Bowlestrop Independent School District. They'll got O versus Bollstrop followed 87 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: the California case of Mendez versus Westminster, which we've also 88 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: talked about on the show, and it made segregation of 89 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: Mexican American school children illegal in the state of Texas, 90 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: with the exception of like first graders who genuinely needed 91 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: some more English language instruction before they joined classes that 92 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: were being taught in English. Garcia had also represented the 93 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: family of Felix Longoria, who was killed in action in 94 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: World War Two. When Longoria's body was returned home to Texas, 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: the only funeral home in his hometown of Three Rivers 96 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: refused to allow its chapel to be used for the 97 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: service because in the director's words quote the whites would 98 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: not like it after them, Senator Lyndon B. Johnson got involved. 99 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: Longoria was buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Joining Garcia and 100 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: the defense team was Carlos can whose prior civil rights 101 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: work included challenging restrictive covenants that we're keeping Mexican Americans 102 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: from being able to buy land in San Antonio. Garcio 103 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: is known as an incredibly eloquent and charismatic speaker, and 104 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: Kindaa had a head for numbers and statistics, so when 105 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: they worked together as a legal team, typically Garcia would 106 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: be the one who argued the case in court, and 107 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: Kadeta meticulously assembled all the research and the information that 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: was needed to make that argument in court. Also on 109 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: the team were John Jay Herrera known as Johnny, and 110 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: James DeAnda, who practiced together in Houston, and Herrera and 111 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: Garcia already knew one another, and they had actually worked 112 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: together on Delgado versus Blastrop. So the reason this seemingly 113 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: straightforward small town murder trial required a team of four attorneys, 114 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: including some of the most well known civil rights lawyers 115 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: working in Texas at the time, is that it was 116 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 1: not just a simple criminal matter. While working out another 117 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: case together in Fort ben County, Johnny Herrera had ily 118 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: wondered to James Dandah why he had never seen a 119 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: Mexican person on a jury there, And then when they 120 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: looked into it further, they realized that there had been 121 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: no one of Mexican descent on a Fort Been County 122 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: jury in more than thirty five years. The same pattern 123 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: was true in Jackson County, where Hernandez was going to 124 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: be tried. Herrera was not the first person to make 125 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: this observation. All Anglo juries had come up at least 126 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: seven times in Texas court since nine There hadn't been 127 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: a Mexican person on a jury, or, to be more specific, 128 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: anyone who had a recognizable Mexican or Latin American surname 129 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: in twenty five years in at least seventy Texas counties. 130 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: Every attempt to address that disparity had been met with 131 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: the same legal response from the state. Indiana's words, quote, well, 132 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: Mexicans are Caucasians, and there were Caucasians on the jury, 133 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: so what are you fussing about? Herrera's Indiana's client and 134 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: Assito Sanchez had been found guilty of murder Carrera Indianda 135 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: had appealed the conviction on the grounds that Sanchez had 136 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: been discriminated against by the existence of this all white jury, 137 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: but the Texas Court of Appeals upheld the conviction, making 138 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: that same argument as a Mexican, Sanchez was white and 139 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: the jury was white, so there was no discrimination. And 140 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: at that point the team was out of funds. Sanchez 141 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: was really reluctant to pursue the case any further. As well, 142 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: he was afraid that he would get a harsher sentence 143 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: if his conviction was overturned and he had to be retried. 144 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: This Mexicans are white argument stretched back to the Treaty 145 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: of Guadalupe had all Goo, which ended the Mexican American 146 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: War in eighteen forty eight, and the war ended with 147 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: Mexico seating a huge amount of territory, much of it 148 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: inhabited by both Mexicans and indigenous people, to the United States. 149 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: In Article eight, the treaty gave Mexicans living in United 150 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: States territory a choice to quote the treaty quote, those 151 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: who shall prefer to remain in the said territories may 152 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: either retain the title and rights of Mexican citizens or 153 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: acquire those of citizens of the United States, but they 154 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: shall be under the obligation to make their election within 155 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: one year from the date of the exchange of ratifications 156 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: of this Treaty, And those who shall remain in the 157 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: said territories after the expiration of that year, without having 158 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: declared their intention to retain the character of Mexicans, shall 159 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: be considered to have elected to become citizens of the 160 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: United States. The treaty went on to recognize the property 161 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: rights of Mexicans and to state that those who became 162 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: American would be quote admitted at the proper time to 163 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: the enjoyment of all the rights of citizens of the 164 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: United States, according to the principles of the Constitution, and 165 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: in the meantime shall be maintained and protected in the 166 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: free enjoyment of their liberty and property, and secured in 167 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: the free exercise of their religion without restriction. Of course, 168 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: this is just one aspect of this whole treaty, and 169 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: it's also important to note that Mexico had given its 170 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: indigenous population the rights of citizenship, but those rights were 171 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: essentially ignored once the territory they had been living in 172 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: became part of the United States. So even though in theory, 173 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: if you had Mexican citizenship before, you were supposed to 174 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: have American citizenship now that citizenship was denied the indigenous 175 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: population that was living in former Mexican territory, and for 176 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: the Mexican citizens of Spanish descent once that year was 177 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: up after the ratification of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, 178 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: unless they had specifically said they were retaining Mexican citizenship, 179 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: they were to be considered American citizens. And all of 180 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: this together meant that from a legal perspective, they were white. 181 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: And we'll get to how the team built a legal 182 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: defense around all of this after we first pause and 183 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: have a little bit of a sponsor break. Throughout the 184 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: murder trial of pet Hernandez, his legal team tried to 185 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: establish that the absence of Mexicans on the jury was 186 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: discriminate Tory. Their first effort in doing this was on 187 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: October four, ninety one, when Garcia and Kindana tried to 188 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: quash the original indictment because that indictment had been delivered 189 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: by an all Anglo grand jury. As expected, no one 190 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: was surprised by this. The court refused and the trial 191 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: began as planned on October eight, and all Anglo jury 192 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: was selected, and once that was done, the legal team 193 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: filed a motion to quash. In the hearing that followed, 194 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time trying to establish that, 195 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: regardless of whether they were legally considered white, Mexicans were 196 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: treated as a class apart. The team noted things like 197 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: restaurants that posted no Mexicans signs and the recently ended 198 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: school segregation, and they asked a number of witnesses things like, 199 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: would you ever say a German Man and a white man? 200 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: How about an Englishman and a white man? How about 201 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: a Mexican and a white man? And even though the 202 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: resulting answers provided solid evidence that Mexican residents of Jackson 203 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: County were treated differently from Anglo residents, the motion was 204 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: ultimately denied. I learned two really fascinating things while reading 205 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: through all of this questioning during the hearing to quash 206 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: the jury, uh And one of them was that at 207 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: the time, a lot more people used the word Latin 208 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: American rather than Mexican. Because people, I mean a lot 209 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: of different reasons. The preferred language to talk about stuff 210 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: changes over time. And that's normal, Like that's expected. Part 211 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: of it was, uh that people were kind of concerned 212 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: that if you said Mexican, that you might actually mean 213 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: a Mexican national living in Mexico right now rather than 214 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: a person of Mexican descent living in the United States. Um. 215 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: And the other one was that apparently people still considered 216 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: Bohemian to be a recognizable like ethnic class, and so 217 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: some of the questions were like, would you say, oh, look, 218 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: there's a Bohemian and a white man, And people were like, no, 219 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: of course not, that's weird. I was like, that's never 220 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: a thing I've even thought of. Uh, but I mean 221 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: to be clear in case it's not obvious. People were like, no, 222 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say a German Man and a white man. 223 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: Those are both white. And people would say, well, would 224 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: you say a Mexican and a white man? Oh? Yeah. 225 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Like they built the case over a lot of questions, 226 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: but in spite of that, they did not quash the jury. 227 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: After the jury selection and all those pre trial motions 228 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: that charges against Hernandez were read at one pm on 229 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: October eleven, the jury went to deliberations at four thirty 230 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: in the afternoon, and by eight pm that same night, 231 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: they had reached a verdict, Hernandez was convicted and sentenced 232 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: to life in prison. Her Era Indianda had already tried 233 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: to make a discrimination argument in their appeal of Anacito 234 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: Sanchez's murder conviction, so the team started with that brief 235 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: as the foundation for their appeal of Hernandez's conviction. They 236 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: drew parallels to the systemic exclusion of black jurors, which 237 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court had already found violated the constitutional rights 238 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: to do process in equal protection, and they also drew 239 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: parallels to how mex Kins were treated quite differently from 240 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: people of other nationalities who really were considered to be white. Cardena, 241 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: who crafted a lot of the brief, also made the 242 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: point that, in his words quote about the only time 243 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: that so called Mexicans, many of them Texans for seven generations, 244 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: are covered with the Caucasian cloak is when it serves 245 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: the ends of those who would shamelessly deny this large 246 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: segment of the Texas population their fundamental rights. So basically, 247 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: nobody's really calling us white until it suits them to 248 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: be like, well, you're not being discriminated against because you're white, 249 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: you're different, until we have to defend ourselves. And then 250 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: You're just like us. Hernandez's case was brought before the 251 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: Texas Court of Criminal Appeals on November twenty one, ye 252 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: with the team arguing that the lower court had aired 253 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: in denying the motions to quash both the grand and 254 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: petit juries. The Texas Court of Appeals disagreed and affirmed 255 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: that conviction on June eighteenth, nineteen fifty two, and the 256 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: appeals courts to decision noted that the Fourteenth Amendments Equal 257 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: protection clause applied to two classes only, quote, the white 258 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: race comprising one class, and the Negro race comprising the 259 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: other class. The Appeals court also repeated part of the 260 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: decision that had had given in the Sanchez case, quote 261 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: Mexican people are not a separate race, but white people 262 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: of Spanish descent. That went on to specify quote in 263 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: contemplation of the Fourteenth Amendment, Mexicans are therefore members of 264 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: and within the classification of the white race, as distinguished 265 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: for members of the Negro race. The team tried to 266 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: bring the jury selection issue back to the Court of 267 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: Appeals on October two, but the court declined to hear it, 268 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: so from there their next step would be to take 269 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: this case to the United States Supreme Court, and although 270 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: this had always been their goal, they recognized that it 271 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: was an incredibly risky decision to try it. On a 272 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: personal level, it was risky for Pete Hernandez. He had 273 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: been found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison, 274 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: and if the Supreme Court overturned his conviction, he would 275 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: need to be retried. Like we said, it was clear 276 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: that he had committed this crime, and if he was retried, 277 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: he could potentially be sentenced to death. Going to the 278 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court carried other risks as well. If the court 279 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: did not find in Hernandez's favor, it would probably take 280 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: at least a generation for another similar case to be heard. 281 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: That meant that for a generation, Mexican Americans in many 282 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: Texas counties would continue to face juries composed only of anglos. 283 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: And since the whole issue was tied to whether Mexicans 284 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: were white, there were plenty of imagined scenarios and consequences 285 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: should the court decide that no, they were not. This 286 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: risk was compounded by the fact that Peter Nandez's case 287 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: was not particularly likely to elicit the court's sympathy. At 288 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: the same time, as Hernandez's and Sanchez's cases were being 289 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: heard in Texas. Civil rights cases involving black Americans were 290 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: playing out elsewhere in the United States as well. These 291 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: were often backed by national organizations like the n double 292 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: a CP with experienced civil rights lawyers who were carefully 293 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: selecting cases whose defendants were likely to be sympathetic and 294 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: regarded by white justices as respectable and worthy of compassion. 295 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: Like this has come up in a lot of past episodes, 296 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: like the Mildred and Richard Loving were sympathetic people because 297 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: they were a couple who loved each other and wanted 298 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: to live together in Virginia. And Rosa parks Uh was 299 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: sympathetic because she had a job and was like, I 300 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: had a reputation for being, you know, a kind person 301 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: who went to church. All of these things were part 302 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: of deciding whose case would be presented to the Supreme Court. 303 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: This was not the case with Pete Hernandez. He had 304 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: murdered someone after a fight in front of witnesses. At 305 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: the same time, a Supreme Court case seemed like an 306 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to try to right some of the wrongs within 307 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: the court system, so the team filed their petition for 308 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: a written of sertiorari with the Supreme Court on January one, 309 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. This is the document that formally asks 310 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: the higher court to review the lower court's decision. And 311 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: this was a day pass the deadline and typewritten when 312 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court's rules stated that they must be professionally printed. 313 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: But the Court agreed to hear the case anyway, and 314 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: on October twelfth, nineteen fifties three, it was scheduled for 315 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: the next session. People were really worried that the fact 316 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: that they turned it in a day late and typewrittens 317 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: that have professionally printed was like an indicator of bad 318 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: things to come. Arguing a case before the Supreme Court 319 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: is expensive. To be allowed to do it at all, 320 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: attorneys have to apply for and be granted admission to 321 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court Bar. This requires sponsorship from people who 322 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: have already been admitted to the Supreme Court Bar. So, 323 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: in addition to the application fee, the team, none of 324 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: whom had ever argued before the Supreme Court before, had 325 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: to find other attorneys who are already approved to sponsor them, 326 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: and then pay a fee to apply. There are also 327 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: filing fees for the case itself. And the team arguing 328 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 1: the case is responsible for paying for all the pre 329 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: the briefs to be printed, along with travel to Washington, 330 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: d C. And food and lodging while there, and especially 331 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: in the cases of attorneys who have private practices, the 332 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: disruption of their businesses and income while they're gone. Hernand 333 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: Is his team did not have a lot of money. 334 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: They were basically a collection of local Texas lawyers whose 335 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: own practices and incomes and stracy just suggested we're going 336 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: to suffer while they were away. So the Robert Marshall 337 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: Civil Liberties Trust contributed five thousand dollars to the cost 338 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: of the proceedings, and local LULAC chapters made donations as well, 339 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: and the rest of their budget was filled in by 340 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: small donations from other civic organizations and even individual people. 341 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: There are interviews with some of the folks that were 342 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: involved in all of this who would talk about people 343 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: who just really did not have any money coming up 344 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: to them on the street and like handing them a 345 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: dollar and being like, please use this to help pay 346 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: for the case. Because their budget was so tight, they 347 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: eventually decided that not all of them would go to Washington, 348 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: d C. GARCIA Karenna, and Herrera would all go to Washington, 349 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 1: while Danda stayed behind in Texas, both to try to 350 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: save money on all of their costs and also to 351 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: try to keep all of their law businesses functioning while 352 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: the rest of them were away. Money became one of 353 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: the sources of tension for the team once they actually 354 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: got to Washington. Garcia was somewhat of a showman and 355 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: had a flamboyant personality, and he hired a publicist and 356 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: reserved a hotel suite that the rest of the team 357 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: thought was beyond their budget. It wasn't just about luxury, though. 358 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: At that point, the Double A CP and other organizations 359 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 1: fighting for equal rights for Black Americans were national organizations 360 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: with better funding and much better name recognition. Brown versus 361 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: Board was national news, and Garca really wanted a similar 362 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: national structure and recognition for Mexican Americans. Leading up to 363 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: their arguments before the Supreme Court, Garcia himself also became 364 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: a source of tension as well. He struggled with alcoholism, 365 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: and the day before they were to argue, he vanished 366 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: from the hotel and finally returned very late and heavily intoxicated. 367 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: The rest of the team, while trying to sober him up, 368 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: started to worry that the whole thing was going to 369 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: fall apart. And after we take another quick break, we 370 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: will talk about the Supreme Court argument and what happened afterward. 371 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: Fernandez versus the State of Texas was argued before the 372 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court on January eleventh, ninety four. The 373 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: question before the court was is the equal protection of 374 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: the law claws of the Fourteenth Amendment violated when a 375 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: state tries a person of a particular race or ancestry 376 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: before a jury in which all persons of that race 377 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: or ancestry have been excluded from serving. The team's strategy 378 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: was twofold. They would establish that Mexican jurors, specifically those 379 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: with Spanish surnames, were being systematically intentionally excluded from juries 380 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: in Jackson County, Texas, including in the trial of PETERR. Nandez. 381 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: And they would also establish that the exclusion from jury 382 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: service was part of an overall pattern of discrimination against 383 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: Mexican Americans, treating them as a class apart from white citizens. 384 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: Establishing that Mexican Americans were excluded from jury's was easy enough. 385 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: They had plenty of documentation that almost fifteen percent of 386 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: the county's population had Mexican or Latin American surnames, including 387 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: eleven percent of the man over aged twenty one. About 388 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: six or seven percent of the freeholders and the tax 389 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: roles were of Mexican descent as well. Yet, in spite 390 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: of all of that, zero people with Mexican or Latin 391 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: American surnames had served on a Jackson County jury and 392 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: twenty five years. They also had polenty of evidence of 393 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: Mexican Americans in Jackson County not being treated as white. 394 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: Until the decision in del got O versus blast Trop 395 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: in September, Mexican children in Texas had not been allowed 396 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: to attend school with white children. There was at least 397 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: one restaurant with a posted sign that Mexicans would not 398 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: be served, along with signs that said quote no chili, 399 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: which meant exactly the same thing. But the most compelling 400 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: piece of evidence of discrimination again against Mexican Americans that 401 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: was presented before the Supreme Court came from Johnny Herrera's 402 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: own experience, and it had also been part of that 403 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: first motion to quash the jury in Hernandez's original trial. 404 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: During that original trial in Jackson County. Herrera had gone 405 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: to the restroom and he had found that there were 406 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: two bathrooms. One of them was unmarked and the other 407 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: was labeled colored men and under that ombre Zaki or 408 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: men here. Meanwhile, the state of Texas argued that the 409 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: lack of Mexican and Latin American surnames among jurors was 410 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: just a coincidence, and that Mexicans were white, so the 411 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment did not apply. In other words, at the 412 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: courthouse where the Texas legal system was arguing that Mexicans 413 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: were white, there were segregated restrooms, one unmarked and only 414 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: for white men, and the other marked for black and 415 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: Mexican men. Garcia, who as we said, had come back 416 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: to the hotel really late and heavily intoxicated, was pretty 417 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: quiet during the earlier parts of the oral arguments, But 418 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: after some of the justices asked a series of questions 419 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: along the lines of whether Mexican Americans or citizens and 420 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: whether they could speak English, he kind of revived. He 421 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: started an incredibly eloquent legal argument that combined the histories 422 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: of Mexico and the United States, including the fact that 423 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: many of the families who were being affected by this 424 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: systemic jury exclusion had been in Texas for generations before 425 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: Sam Houston even showed up there. It was Unfortunately the 426 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: transcript of this does not seem to exist anywhere anymore. 427 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: But it was such a compelling listen that when his 428 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: time was up, Chief Justice Earl Warren told him to 429 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: continue and allowed him to talk for twelve more minutes. 430 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court issued its unanimous decision on May third, 431 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: ninety four. By being denied a jury of his peers, 432 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: including Mexican Americans, Pete her Nandez, had been denied Fourteenth 433 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: Amendment protections and this denial was unconstitutional. As part of 434 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: Earl lawrence majority opinion, he wrote, quote throughout our history, 435 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: differences in race and color have defined easily identifiable groups 436 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: which have at times required the aid of the courts 437 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: in securing equal treatment under the laws. But community prejudices 438 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: are not static, and from time to time, other differences 439 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: from the community norm may define other groups which need 440 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: the same protection. Whether such a group exists within a 441 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: community is a question and a fact. When this existence 442 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: of a distinct class is demonstrated, and it is further 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: shown that the laws as written or as applied single 444 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: out that class for different treatment not based on some 445 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: reasonable classification, the guarantees of the Constitution have been violated. 446 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: The fourteenth Amendment is not directed solely against discrimination due 447 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: to a two class theory that is based on differences 448 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 1: between white and Negro. He also went on to say, quote, 449 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: but it taxes our credulity to say that mere chance 450 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: resulted in there being no members of this class among 451 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: the over six thousand jurors called in the past twenty 452 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: five years. The result bespeaks discrimination, whether or not it 453 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: was a conscious decision on the part of any individual 454 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: jury commissioner. With the Supreme Court having issued its decision, 455 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: the Texas Department of Corrections was notified that Hernandez would 456 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: be remanded for a retrial on May seventh, nineteen fifty four. 457 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: That was four days after the decision was announced. He 458 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: was re indicted on September nineteen fifty four, and the 459 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: trial was moved to another county after a successful petition 460 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: for a change of venue. Garcia argued. The new trial, 461 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: which was held on November fifteen and included two Mexican 462 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: Americans among the jury. Hernandez was again found guilty, and 463 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: this time sentenced to twenty years in prison. He was 464 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: recommended for parole on June seventh, nineteen sixty, and Governor 465 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: Price Daniel ordered his release on the next day. This 466 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: was in part due to advocacy by Garcia, who recognized 467 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: that Hernandez had knowingly risked his own life in pursuit 468 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: of this civil rights school. As we said earlier, the 469 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: facts of the case were clear and that he had 470 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: committed murder, so by allowing this case to be appealed, 471 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: he was knowingly risking a death sentence. Hernandez versus Texas 472 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: was notable and influential in a lot of ways, since 473 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: it set the precedent that the Fourteenth Amendments protections applied 474 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 1: to Mexican Americans that laid the ground work for fighting 475 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: other forms of discrimination against them, including things like housing 476 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: and employment discrimination. The idea that the Fourteenth Amendment was 477 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: not just related to a two class idea of race 478 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: was also a huge deal. Before Hernando's versus Texas, most 479 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment arguments were about black and white, not about 480 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: any other race or ethnic group. But the application of 481 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: those same rights and protections to Mexican Americans meant that 482 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: in the United States. Race was not just a two 483 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: class system. There were other classes as well, some of 484 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: them not related to race in any way, who could 485 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: be the targets of unconstitutional discrimination. To recap what we 486 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: said at the top of the show, Hernando's versus Texas 487 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: was also hugely important because it was the first Supreme 488 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: Court case related to civil rights for Mexican Americans, particularly 489 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: after the World War two era, and it was the 490 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: first to be argued by Mexican Americans. People doing it 491 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: weren't being backed by any kind of nationwide legal organization 492 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: or a strategy. They were just a handful of local 493 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: lawyers who were also Mexican American, of which there were 494 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: not that many practicing in Texas. The four of them 495 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: represented roughly of the Mexican American lawyers practicing anywhere in 496 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: Texas at the time, So this was a groundbreaking first 497 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: from a lot of different directions. Hernandez versus Texas continued 498 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: to be the main precedent in civil rights cases for 499 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: Mexican Americans until nineteen seventy one, when ces Naro's versus 500 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: Corpus Christie Independent School Districts recognized Hispanics as a distinct 501 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 1: minority group. With all the constitutional protections that apply to 502 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: other minority groups applying to Hispanics as well. However, the 503 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: core issue that started this whole case, which was the 504 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: underrepresentation of Mexican Americans on juries, continues to be an issue. 505 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, the Supreme Court heard Costanata versus Pardita, 506 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: which found that a defendant had been discriminated against in 507 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: part because seventy nine percent of the county's population where 508 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: he lived with Mexican American, but over an eleven year period, 509 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: only thirty nine percent of those summons to be on 510 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: the grand jury were Mexican American. Carlos Cadena served as 511 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: the City Attorney of San Antonio until nineteen sixty one, 512 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: when he joined the faculty at St. Mary's School of 513 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Law and became the nation's first Mexican American law professor. 514 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: He was later appointed to the Fourth Court of Appeals 515 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: and eventually became its Chief Justice, making him the first 516 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: Mexican American to hold that position. He helped co found 517 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund and became 518 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: its first national president. He died of lung cancer in 519 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven. Johnny Herrera continued with his civil rights 520 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: work for the rest of his career, eventually becoming the 521 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: national LULAC president and working as its national legal advisor. 522 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: He died after a stroke in nineteen eighty six. James 523 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: DeAnda was appointed to serve as a federal judge under 524 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: President Jimmy Carter. He died of prostate cancer in two 525 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: thousand six. Gus Garcia sadly struggled with alcohol abuse for 526 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: the rest of his life, which was later compounded by depression. 527 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: He was in and out of hospitals, and he was 528 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: disbarred after passing bad checks. He stopped attending meetings of 529 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: LULAC and the g I Forum, and his behavior became 530 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: increasingly erratic. He died on June third, nineteen sixty four, 531 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: and he was forty eight. It's clear that Hernando's versus 532 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Texas broadened the applicability of the Fourteenth Amendment's protections, but 533 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: there continues to be some debate about how much it 534 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: actually helped Mexican Americans. Most of its arguments had to 535 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: do with surnames, which excluded people who had changed their 536 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: last names or who, for example, were Mexican on their 537 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: mother's side but had their father's Anglo surname, and at 538 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: least for a time, it's set the precedent that people 539 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: who were protected under the fourteenth Amendment were really only 540 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: entitled to those protections when it was clear that their 541 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: whole community was operating under a systemic state of discrimination, 542 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: although that was later refined by other court cases and 543 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: the whole thing wasn't framed as whether Mexican Americans deserved 544 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: equal rights, but whether Mexican Americans were white. It's actually 545 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things to me on a 546 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: sort of intellectual level about this whole case. Um. A 547 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of people think of race as having some kind 548 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: of inherently biological component, but it really is a it's 549 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 1: a social construct. And if you look at the history 550 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: of race in the United States, there's this whole negotiation 551 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: of who is and is not allowed to be white, 552 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: uh and a lot of it is fascinating and sometimes disturbing, 553 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: And if you want a way more condensed look into 554 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: how that has worked throughout the United States history. I 555 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: strongly recommend the series Seeing White from the podcast Seen 556 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: on Radio, which goes through the whole thing. Uh we 557 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: It touches on a lot of things we've talked about 558 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: on the show before, but in a lot more compressed 559 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: time frame, like we have some of the same things 560 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: we have talked about on the show, like some exact 561 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: episodes that we have had on the show. They have 562 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: talked about as well, but it's condensed over I think 563 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen episodes of their podcast. UM. I also 564 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: didn't say, but Pete Hernandez sort of disappears from the 565 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: historical record after he was paroled and at some point 566 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: he clearly died, but it's it's not it's not otherwise 567 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: clear exactly what happened to him after that, and regardless 568 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: of all that other stuff that we just said, Bernando's 569 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: versus Texas is UH an important and groundbreaking Supreme Court 570 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: case that is just buried by Brown versus Board coming 571 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: UH immediately after it. Basically like when I was looking 572 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: for artwork related to this, there are so many pictures 573 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: from Brown versus Board and basically none from this UM. 574 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: It just did it did not get the kind of 575 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: UH national attention and coverage that Brown versus Board did, 576 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: although people at home in Texas were waiting by the 577 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: radio to find out what the Supreme Court had decided. 578 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: Like that people were as attached to finding out as 579 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: like any other civil rights issues that directly pertains to 580 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: a person, people will wait for to find out what 581 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is going to announce on it. And 582 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: that's definitely what happened in Texas with this particular case. 583 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: Heay so much for joining us on this Saturday. Since 584 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: this episode is out of the archive. If you heard 585 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: an email address or a Facebook U r L or 586 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: something similar over the course of the show, that could 587 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: be obsolete now. Our current email address is History Podcast 588 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: at i heart radio dot com. Our old health stuff 589 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: works email address no longer works, and you can find 590 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: us all over social media at missed in History and 591 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, 592 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen 593 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: to podcasts. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a 594 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 595 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 596 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H