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Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for downloading

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Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast, the Remembering the Rattler edition as

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Speaker 1: we mourn the death and celebrate the life of Ken Riley,

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Speaker 1: one of the best players and classiest people to ever

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Speaker 1: wear a Cincinnati Bengals uniform. He passed away on Sunday

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Speaker 1: morning of a heart attack at the age of seventy two.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, I'll speak to another Bengals legend who is

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Speaker 1: Riley's teammate for nine seasons in Cincinnati, Bob Trumpy, and

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Speaker 1: then I'll play an interview that Dave Lapham and I

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Speaker 1: did with The Rattler back in twenty seventeen after he

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Speaker 1: was voted the eleventh best retired player in franchise history.

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Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by Prime Sport, the

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Speaker 1: official fan, travel and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals.

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Speaker 1: And here's a quick reminder that you can add the

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Speaker 1: latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,

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Speaker 1: or computer by subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, in the Bengals second season, they selected

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Speaker 1: Ken Riley in the sixth round of the NFL draft.

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Speaker 1: Riley was a four year starting quarterback for the Florida

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Speaker 1: and M Rattlers, where he was a Rhodes Scholar candidate

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Speaker 1: and his senior class president. When he got to Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: Bengals coach Tom Bass nicknamed him the Ratler in honor

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Speaker 1: of Florida A and M's mascot, and in his first

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Speaker 1: training camp, Paul Brown switched Riley from offense to defense.

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Speaker 1: For the next fifteen years, he was one of the

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Speaker 1: best cornerbacks in football. Riley played in two hundred seven

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Speaker 1: games of Bengals record, and was a team captain for

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Speaker 1: his final eight seasons. His sixty five career interceptions is

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Speaker 1: nearly double the next best total in team history and

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Speaker 1: tied for fifth best in NFL history. All four players

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Speaker 1: with more interceptions are in the Pro foot Ball Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame, and in his final season, at the age

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Speaker 1: of thirty six, Ken Riley was voted First team All

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Speaker 1: Pro as he tied for the AFC lead in interceptions

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Speaker 1: with eight and returned two of them for touchdowns. His

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Speaker 1: success didn't end there after his playing career. Riley spent

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Speaker 1: two years on Forrest Greg's coaching staff with the Green

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Speaker 1: Bay Packers before becoming the head coach at his alma mater,

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Speaker 1: Florida A and M. After eight years as head coach,

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Speaker 1: he spent a decade as the school's athletic director. Bob

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Speaker 1: Trumpy was Riley's teammate from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven, and he joined me to share memories of

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Speaker 1: the rattler, quiet, wonderful teammate, appreciative of your effort. I

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Speaker 1: never heard him say a bad word about anybody, always laughing.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Dan, when I first found out that Ken

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Speaker 1: Riley had been a quarterback in college, I was astonished

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Speaker 1: because he was so quiet. He was a hard guy

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Speaker 1: to get to know. Not because of any personality flaw.

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Speaker 1: He was a hard guy to get to know because

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Speaker 1: he was so studious about what he was doing and

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Speaker 1: so serious about it. And this is even before your time.

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Speaker 1: Lamar Parrish was the other cornerback, and Lamar Parrish was

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Speaker 1: the noisy quarterback, and Ken Riley was the quiet quarterback,

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Speaker 1: not only in talk but in the way they dressed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was a great guy to be around.

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Speaker 1: And thank god we had that big reunion a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago and we all got to see each other,

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Speaker 1: and it was wonderful to see him and his family.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just so broken up about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: Jim McClair died the year, Sam Whist died this year

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Speaker 1: or in the last twelve months. Time is getting to us,

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Speaker 1: Dan Horden, Yes, it is. Unfortunately we are visiting with

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Speaker 1: Bob Trump Trump. Your second season was Ken Riley's first,

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Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, he was a college quarterback. Paul

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Speaker 1: Brown made that switch from quarterback to cornerback that first

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Speaker 1: training camp. Could you tell pretty quickly that it was

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Speaker 1: going to work? No? No, Dan, You got to understand,

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Speaker 1: in those early years of that football team, we all

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Speaker 1: had our own business to take care of. I did

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Speaker 1: not notice Ken Riley. A lot of people have said

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Speaker 1: that he had an immediate impact that I noticed during

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Speaker 1: the football games. But it seems to me that our

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Speaker 1: previous season, Fletcher Smith was one corner and I think

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Speaker 1: a guy named Charlie King was the other corner, and

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Speaker 1: we played an awful lot of zone back then. And

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Speaker 1: when Riley game and Lamar Parris came, we played a

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Speaker 1: lot more man to man and Riley was extraordinary at it.

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Speaker 1: And again I didn't run plays against him, I ran

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Speaker 1: plays against the safety. But the thing that I remembered

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Speaker 1: most about him, and we had two practices a day,

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Speaker 1: an hour and fifteen minutes each, seven days a week

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Speaker 1: for two months in preparation for the season, and other

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Speaker 1: than getting his ankles taped, I never saw Ken Riley

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Speaker 1: in the training room. So then we sat down to

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Speaker 1: tables for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with anybody and everybody.

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Speaker 1: We didn't care what color they were or where they lived.

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Speaker 1: And every time I sat down with Ken Riley, You're

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Speaker 1: not going to believe this, but I kind of dominated

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Speaker 1: the conversation. Maybe I didn't give Ken Riley a chance,

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Speaker 1: but I was friendly with all of them. But every

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Speaker 1: time somebody started it, I'm on the sideline with the

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Speaker 1: offense the defenses out there. There seemed a period of

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Speaker 1: time where every time there was a big cheer from

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Speaker 1: the Stanza Rubert Front Stadium, it was something that Ken

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Speaker 1: Riley had done. He'd either low balls a Lance Alworth

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Speaker 1: or a Notice Taylor of the Kansas City Chiefs, flipped

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Speaker 1: them over or had an interception. But again, personally, he

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Speaker 1: was just great to be around, the wonderful guy, and

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Speaker 1: there was so much about him. I didn't know about

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Speaker 1: him until later on in our careers, and then after

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Speaker 1: he retired. I wish I'd have known it more. I

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Speaker 1: should have shut up and listened to him. We're chatting

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Speaker 1: with Bob Trumpy. I mentioned at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: show Trump that the two most obvious Bengals who belong

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Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame that aren't are both named Ken.

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Speaker 1: Ken Anderson and Ken Riley. Sixty five career in receptions

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Speaker 1: tied for fifth best in NFL history. Why, in your

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Speaker 1: opinion isn't he in I don't have a clue. And Frankly,

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Speaker 1: when you called me this morning to give me the

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Speaker 1: news about Ken's death, don't ever call me with that

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Speaker 1: information again. You understand me. Take your phone call. I

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Speaker 1: don't want that information. But I'm sitting here in my

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Speaker 1: office and helped me here. He's got the fifth most interceptions.

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Speaker 1: But the people on the list there, Paul cross Leeds,

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Speaker 1: I think he was a safety, and Tonnell he was

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Speaker 1: a safety, and then night Train Lane was a corner.

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Speaker 1: Riley was a corner, and Rod Woodson was a corner

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Speaker 1: and a safety. So of the true corners, Riley is

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Speaker 1: number two behind Nightrain Lane. That makes makes it even

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Speaker 1: more absurd that he's not in the NFL. And I've

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Speaker 1: talked to a lot of people in and around the

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Speaker 1: NFL and also the Hall of Fame, and I can't

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Speaker 1: get anybody's answered for you. One of those Kim's not

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Speaker 1: being in the Hall of Fame. But it makes no

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Speaker 1: sense to me. It doesn't now, it didn't fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I mean, you do have to

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Speaker 1: certain you do have to do a certain amount of lobbying,

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Speaker 1: and I can't explain why, neither of him. And it

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Speaker 1: just the thing that makes me most upset about this

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Speaker 1: situation for Ken Rally and his family. He will he'll

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Speaker 1: never get his just do when he's alive, and he

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Speaker 1: certainly deserved to be in the Hall of Fame. The

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Speaker 1: thing that I've heard the most when this has been

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Speaker 1: discussed in the past is the fact that he never

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Speaker 1: went to a Pro Bowl, and that in and of

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Speaker 1: itself is probably even more staggering to me than that

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Speaker 1: he's not in the Hall of Fame. He was All

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Speaker 1: Pro three times, which is really more prestigious than the

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Speaker 1: Pro Bowl because there are a few fewer members of

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Speaker 1: the All Pro team each year. But I guess he

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Speaker 1: had the misfortune of being on the team as at

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Speaker 1: the same time as Lamar. They were both great players,

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Speaker 1: and Lamar had the added boost of being a great

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Speaker 1: return man. And maybe that's why he got to go

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Speaker 1: to six Pro Bowls when Ken was not selected for any. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's fair to say that on an

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Speaker 1: expansion team like the Cincinnati Bengals, how can you have

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Speaker 1: two cornerbacks from the same team make the Pro Bowls squad.

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Speaker 1: That's the most logical thing that I've ever come across.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, Dan, And again there's no criticism

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Speaker 1: of Lamar Parish, but he was the noisy one and

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Speaker 1: Ken Riley wore thirteen on the other side of the field.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, Lamar, I will admit this. When Lamar

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Speaker 1: showed up and started returning punts, I'm on the sideline

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Speaker 1: with the offense, But when he went on the field

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Speaker 1: to return a punt, I got up to watch. Generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: I was sitting on the beach catching my breath. I

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Speaker 1: watched Lamar Parish returned punts, and for the life of me,

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Speaker 1: I can't understand why there's not more consideration for Ken

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Speaker 1: Riley and the three All pros should tell somebody something.

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Speaker 1: But it's overset and done with and that's the damn

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Speaker 1: shame about it. He won't be alive if he ever

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Speaker 1: does get the reward. Paul Brown sought smart football players,

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Speaker 1: and so many of the guys from your era, yourself included,

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Speaker 1: went on to have tremendous careers after football. Tommy Casanova,

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Speaker 1: doctor Mike Read, musician, yourself broadcasting, in Ken Riley's case,

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Speaker 1: highly successful college head coach, athletic director after that. So

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Speaker 1: he lived up to that that Paul Brown mantra that

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Speaker 1: your life does not end when you take your final

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Speaker 1: snap in the NFL. Yeah, you're right. And he used

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Speaker 1: to constantly preach to us that professional football is a springboard.

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Speaker 1: We're going to give you a good start. It's up

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Speaker 1: to you to do something with it when you're done.

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Speaker 1: And Riley, I mean, he didn't live here in the offseason.

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Speaker 1: He went back to Florida and then he would come

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Speaker 1: back to Cincinnati. And that was true for an awful

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Speaker 1: lot of awful lot of players. That not only did

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Speaker 1: players return to where they came from in college, most

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Speaker 1: of them went back to their hometown. And I know

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Speaker 1: he went back to Bartow, Florida, a very small town

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Speaker 1: there in Florida. But man, when he showed up every year,

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Speaker 1: he was in superb shape. He was quiet, let's get

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Speaker 1: the job done. And again, I spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in the training room. I was breakable, he was not.

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Speaker 1: I never saw that guy in the in the training

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Speaker 1: room unless we break after the morning meetings, preparing for lunch.

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Speaker 1: He came in the training room to get Essex Johnson

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Speaker 1: to go to lunch, and Essex was sitting there watching

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Speaker 1: All My Family or whatever his favorite soap opera was.

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Speaker 1: It was he's trying to sneak a pet. But a

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Speaker 1: wonderful guy, and I know he was the captain of

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Speaker 1: the last eight years of his career, well deserved. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's heartbreaking. These guys are all dropping all around us,

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Speaker 1: and and I'm seventy five, one of the oldest guys

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Speaker 1: in the group. I hope you here for a lot longer. Trump. Well,

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Speaker 1: I saw him two years ago. He still looked in

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Speaker 1: magnifficent shape, still had that mustache that he always had,

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Speaker 1: and certainly appeared to be Christine else So darn curse

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Speaker 1: my heart. As Bob Trumpy mentioned in that interview, ken

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Speaker 1: Riley was not a guy that spent much time in

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Speaker 1: the training room. Think about this, It's hard for cornerbacks

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Speaker 1: to avoid injuries. They sprint up and down the field

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Speaker 1: on nearly every snap and often have to tackle much

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Speaker 1: bigger players coming at them at full speed. Ken Riley

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Speaker 1: did not miss a single game in eleven of his

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Speaker 1: fifteen NFL seasons and never missed more than three in

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Speaker 1: a single year. Before we get to our next conversation,

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Speaker 1: here's a quick reminder that you can take your Bengals

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Speaker 1: pride to the next level in twenty twenty with an

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Speaker 1: official Bengals fan package from Prime Sport. In twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: when the Bengals celebrated their fiftieth season, fans and media

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Speaker 1: voted to select the top fifty retired players in team history.

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Speaker 1: Ken Riley came in at number eleven, third among defensive players,

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Speaker 1: behind Tim Crumry and David Culture. The players on that

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Speaker 1: list were honored throughout the season at Paul Brown Stadium,

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Speaker 1: and before he returned to Cincinnati, ken Riley joined Dave

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Speaker 1: Lapham and me I'm the Bengals Game Plan Show. Here's

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Speaker 1: lap you know what Paul Brown always said, you win

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Speaker 1: football games with good smart people. Ken Riley is the

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Speaker 1: epitome just a great person, unbelievably intelligent, great football IQ

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Speaker 1: and a successful guy. I mean, he'd be proud of you, Ratler.

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Speaker 1: Everything you've accomplished, not just as a football player and

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Speaker 1: here in Cincinnati, but coaching athletic director, everything you've done

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Speaker 1: after football. That's what Peebe was all about, wasn't he. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the thing he stressed a part us,

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Speaker 1: not only the football part of that, what you did

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Speaker 1: after you couldn't play anymore. He wanted to be the

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Speaker 1: citizen in your community. And you know the people he selected.

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Speaker 1: That was Paul Brown's mold. I mean, he selected people

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Speaker 1: that were intelligent. You know. You know you're back in

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Speaker 1: the DA camp had to pass that six. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he started so he very wise and had that

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Speaker 1: way rightly. You know the thing that you were, you

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Speaker 1: were one of the cornerstones that the franchise was built on.

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Speaker 1: You were here in the early days and you know,

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Speaker 1: survived all of that craziness and then the payoff was

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl sixteen in nineteen eighty one, eighty two. You're

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Speaker 1: still performing at a high level. You know, three decades.

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Speaker 1: You played here, three decades at a high level for

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Speaker 1: the in three different decades, and a high level for

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Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Bengals. And to go through that the early

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Speaker 1: stages of the franchise all the way to the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: the payoff towards the end of your career, what was

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Speaker 1: that journey like? Well, you know it was it was good.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were fourth and I did in the

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Speaker 1: second year. It was the nineteen seventy went to the

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Speaker 1: playoffs at N seven three seventy six, and then you

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Speaker 1: know we were gets played during an arrow where we

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Speaker 1: had some We had a great conference, you know, you

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Speaker 1: since Fanconati Cleveland having it was a strone that was

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Speaker 1: black and blew with that particulars that man right. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: pour sputing in the way. But you know it was

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Speaker 1: great and it's telling the my career eighty two eighty three,

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Speaker 1: I would thinks about the time and carst Grade came

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Speaker 1: along and you were taught and convinced me to come

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Speaker 1: back again. And I don't regret it. You know, I

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Speaker 1: we had to conference my last two years eighty two

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Speaker 1: and eighty three US in such and so I didn't

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Speaker 1: say it on the bench. I played fifteen years, so

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Speaker 1: after that, you know, side my first year, so it

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Speaker 1: was it was great. They had a great teammates. I

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Speaker 1: think eighty eighty one two team. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a great football team. But you know again, San Francisco

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Speaker 1: stated gob both every went through the bow, so that's

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Speaker 1: where it goes. Bengals legend. Ken Riley is our guest. Ken,

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Speaker 1: you are a great quarterback at Florida A and M,

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Speaker 1: and then switched to cornerback when you got to the Bengals.

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Speaker 1: We want to listen into a comment from Mike Brown

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Speaker 1: on you making that switch as a rookie back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine. Kenny came up out of college as

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Speaker 1: a quarterback. Same year we drafted Greg Cook number one

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Speaker 1: from you see, Greg Cook was the greatest talent we

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Speaker 1: ever had here. His career ended tragically soon he was

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Speaker 1: injured and that ended him as a player. But when

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Speaker 1: Kenny showed up, Greg Cook was in full bloom and

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Speaker 1: it didn't take Kenny long to figure out what that meant.

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Speaker 1: Just in the second day of training camp, my father

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Speaker 1: came over to the quarterbacks and said to Kenny, go

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Speaker 1: over and practice with the defensive backs, and Kenny's feelings

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Speaker 1: wasn't hurt. He understood that it was going to be

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Speaker 1: hard for him with Greg on hand, he went over

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Speaker 1: with the cornerbacks. He was our starter for fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: So here's the question, Ken, if Greg Cook was not

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Speaker 1: on the roster, could you have succeeded quarterback in the NFL?

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Speaker 1: I regin. I took anything in a voice from anybody.

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Speaker 1: I was pretty much like I asked me. I was

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Speaker 1: pretty hit as a quarterback, but more like Russell Wilson

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Speaker 1: Bob a little bit faster. But I have no regrets

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Speaker 1: at all. I was just happy to get the opportunity

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Speaker 1: back then. You know, been a quarterback at a small

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Speaker 1: school and even traffic for Course Brown and even drafted,

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Speaker 1: you have been an opportunity. I would thankful. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to get it Dan, to show that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I could do it. A lot of people doubt it

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Speaker 1: that I would make it, even some of my college teams,

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Speaker 1: because I was pampered. It's like any quarterbacks. Nobody touched

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Speaker 1: me in prices and things like that. But uh, you

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Speaker 1: know I had the skills and the Tom Bass came

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Speaker 1: and showed me what I had to do. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any bad habit. So and when Paul Brown was

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Speaker 1: got any camp foot, Brown said, you were cornerback, Sow.

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Speaker 1: But Grig could was phenomenal. And you know he was

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Speaker 1: a great, great friend of mine. And but you know,

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Speaker 1: outside of Grid, I think I could have compute it.

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Speaker 1: But Grig that was a quarterback during that tack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Greg was. He was a freak. He had some some

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Speaker 1: unusual talent he did. He had it all he was.

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Speaker 1: He was Joe Namas before Joe Namas exactly. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's no doubt everybody like him. He had that personality.

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Speaker 1: I mean we all loved because yeah, it was great.

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Speaker 1: It was something so Ratler. You know, your your career

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Speaker 1: after playing football, you're coached, you know at your Alma

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Speaker 1: Mata athletic director. How much of Paul Brown, Forrest Greg,

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Speaker 1: those kind of influences as coaches in your playing days

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Speaker 1: did you take with you, you know, to your career

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Speaker 1: after playing a lot and you know, when you're playing,

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Speaker 1: you're going through it as a player. You can't see

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Speaker 1: some of the things that maybe a coach can see.

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Speaker 1: But all those people that you mentioned, Coach Brown, uh,

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Speaker 1: Forest or you know, I learned something from all of them.

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Speaker 1: I felt that the main thing is what you you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to your player, that the one to play

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Speaker 1: for you. And I think that was a thing as

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Speaker 1: the coach Brown, you know you played, I played out

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Speaker 1: of fear. You know you would tell you right then

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Speaker 1: and there you wouldn't get the job now what your

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Speaker 1: consequences were. So you usually had your two things either

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Speaker 1: get better or you you go on. And it could

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Speaker 1: Brig brought in that uh. He was just a disciplinarian.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what we needed that particular time. Coach

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Speaker 1: all our life is a big coach and motivated, but

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of young players and you know

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Speaker 1: they needed a firm hand at that particular time. I

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Speaker 1: could have played for either one of them, but coach

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Speaker 1: Greg teaming with that uh discipline that we needed. And

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Speaker 1: you know the next year we was in the super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: But I landed something from both of them as a

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Speaker 1: players are courch and you know both of them and

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Speaker 1: known to me and made a bit difference in my

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Speaker 1: life on and off the field. I last something from

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Speaker 1: final question, appreciate appreciate your carving the time force you

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Speaker 1: have Rattler the first fifty team in the secondary huh,

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Speaker 1: Lamar Parish, Kenny Riley, Tommy Cassanova, three of the four

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Speaker 1: guys David Fulcher rounded it out. Three of the four

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Speaker 1: players in the first fifty all time for the Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: Bengals franchise were some of the original players selected by

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Speaker 1: Paul Brown and company. That's that's a big statement to me.

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Speaker 1: That says a lot. How proud of you that three

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Speaker 1: of you four guys are, you know, here in the

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Speaker 1: year two thousand and seventeen being honored as one of

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Speaker 1: the all as a group all time greats. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought Lamar and asked. We made a good time though.

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Speaker 1: We were. I mean, we were pretty good and Captain

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Speaker 1: Lowe was reather than mow as well. Lewis Breeden came along.

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Speaker 1: He was good too, but you know at the time

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Speaker 1: Lewis came after. Lewis sort of learned from us a

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Speaker 1: little bit that right, But there was a great secondary

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Speaker 1: we played with other that we were good at owning

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Speaker 1: off and garn with chip chip chipping a wide receivers too, yep,

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Speaker 1: but super good about pity raly. But we all were

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Speaker 1: framed clothes and uh, we worked real hard in practice,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's a major difference. You know, we

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Speaker 1: were hard in practice. So we got in the game,

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Speaker 1: it was like, you know, it was a lot easier,

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Speaker 1: but those three guys lamar myself and cashing out. But

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Speaker 1: we made it. Uh. That was that was a great

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Speaker 1: second area. And I think we could have played even

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Speaker 1: to day. I mean we were just that good, no doubt,

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Speaker 1: no doubt. Sixty five just got the job there. Done

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Speaker 1: sixty five career interceptions, tied for fifth in NFL history,

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Speaker 1: about twice as many as anybody else in the Bengals

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Speaker 1: first forty nine seasons. Congratulations on a remarkable career, and

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Speaker 1: again we look forward to seeing you back on the

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Speaker 1: field this Sunday and should be in the Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: request Ratley, you should be in the Hall of Fame. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think we are civil guys. You know that's uh.

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Speaker 1: On our team, it's worth the other. But again, we

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Speaker 1: don't make that decision. And I don't think you could

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Speaker 1: do it good. I didn't be the best you can be.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully some kind of noticed that. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: forts lighting it right, it's a good you're doing so

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Speaker 1: I did you work, But I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: I really thank you for saying it. But who knows.

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Speaker 1: Maybe one day. Here's hoping that Ken Riley's passing raises

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Speaker 1: awareness among the Hall of Fame Seniors committee that evaluates

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Speaker 1: players whose careers have been completed for at least twenty

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Speaker 1: five years that the Rattler belongs in Canton. That's going

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Speaker 1: to do it for This episode of The Bengals Booth

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Speaker 1: Podcast brought to you by Prime Sport, the official fan,

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Speaker 1: travel and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't done so already, please subscribe, and if you have

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Speaker 1: a minute, give it a rating or share a comment

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Speaker 1: that helps more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast