Speaker 1: Scrubbing In with Beca Tilly and Tanya rad and iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and two time People's Choice Award winning podcasts.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, we are scrubbing In. It is Thursday, so
Speaker 2: it is a Dear Bonya episode. But Becca's not here
Speaker 2: with us today, and we have two special guests, and
Speaker 2: so what we were kind of wanting to do with
Speaker 2: the podcast today is every Thursday we do a Dear Bonya.
Speaker 2: So it's like scrubbers email in their questions that they
Speaker 2: needed advice on. And we have our guests who have
Speaker 2: a podcast called Therapy Thursday where you're giving advice and
Speaker 2: you're giving your knowledge to people, so we figure, why
Speaker 2: not combine them.
Speaker 3: I love that you call them scrubbers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's amazing. I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, our scrubbers. They need a lot of advice. And
Speaker 2: we are not professionals.
Speaker 4: We give our opinions, but we have a professional here.
Speaker 2: We have Sarah Dash She is a licensed psycho therapist. Yes,
Speaker 2: and you are part of Therapy Thursday with I Am
Speaker 2: you Want and only Ellen Kay.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 4: Ellen k needs no introduction.
Speaker 2: She is the voice of Los Angeles, the female voice
Speaker 2: on Los Angeles.
Speaker 5: Oh thanks, you are.
Speaker 4: I mean I could go on and on about you.
Speaker 5: But we have friends for a long time, for.
Speaker 4: A long time.
Speaker 2: Ellen K is the host of Coast one three point
Speaker 2: five's The ellen K Morning Show. But I mean, you
Speaker 2: have so many accolades. I mean I could go on
Speaker 2: and on.
Speaker 1: No, you don't need too, Tanya, thank you. That's a
Speaker 1: very nice introduction.
Speaker 3: She's amazing here, Charlie, amazing.
Speaker 1: Tanya and I have been friends for a very long time.
Speaker 1: We've been through a lot of life together.
Speaker 2: Yes, I met you, and I was twenty two, I
Speaker 2: think twenty two or twenty three.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, And Tanya was.
Speaker 1: Just kind of going through finding the love of her life, yes,
Speaker 1: and so that meant losing who she thought was the
Speaker 1: love of her life and moving on and also becoming
Speaker 1: a woman, Like I have watched you grow.
Speaker 5: Into being the woman you are today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I was like a kid, well.
Speaker 2: But you were you know, you know, I was embarrassing, nosed.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: I thought that breakup was like the end of my life.
Speaker 4: Like I was like, I'm never going to find someone
Speaker 4: like him, and.
Speaker 6: Devastating, especially if it's that first big breakup's absolutely annihilating.
Speaker 2: But like I couldn't separate like my personal life and work.
Speaker 2: Like I would come to work and I would just
Speaker 2: like cry the whole time. I'm like, thank God, Like I.
Speaker 5: Feel like that's part of our jobs though, is that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we go through, other people are going through, and
Speaker 1: so it's bringing us all together and relating to it.
Speaker 1: And I think that that was one of the your
Speaker 1: magic sauces.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you.
Speaker 2: Well, when I first started on on air, the Ryan Seacrest,
Speaker 2: alan Ka was the co host, and she was so
Speaker 2: sweet to me, and we found out that we were
Speaker 2: sorority sisters.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, my sister was a Theta Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah runs deep.
Speaker 5: Yes it does, it does, it does.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it was just like such a special time.
Speaker 1: Yes, really, this is a special time. We're so happy
Speaker 1: to be on your podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, sorry, good, let's go back to Therapy Thursday.
Speaker 2: So you started Therapy Thursday on your morning show.
Speaker 4: And then but for how long.
Speaker 1: It was just a radio feature. We were probably I
Speaker 1: don't know, almost a year.
Speaker 6: I would say six months, maybe not even that long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then there was you know these research projects
Speaker 1: the company does. So there's a research project and I
Speaker 1: got a call from our program director and he said, hey,
Speaker 1: can we talk? And I was like, oh no, Like
Speaker 1: he got the research back and listened to this, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, really do it? I don't really, I don't know,
Speaker 1: do I? And then he said, I said, why don't
Speaker 1: you tell someone else to tell me? So he said, no,
Speaker 1: this is really good news. The research came back for
Speaker 1: therapy Thursday, and the perceptuals and the verbatims they want more,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, that's great, so exciting.
Speaker 5: And then.
Speaker 1: And then they said, let's make it into a podcast.
Speaker 1: That way we can just like let it go and
Speaker 1: just talk and get the people on with us or
Speaker 1: the problems have.
Speaker 2: More time and have more time when you're on the radio,
Speaker 2: you're on a strict schedule.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's so fast.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Really, because we started on the radio, we were doing
Speaker 1: like therapy in three minutes.
Speaker 5: That's what we should have called it.
Speaker 6: That would have been perfect because it was like, I mean, never,
Speaker 6: never over five minutes.
Speaker 4: But can I be honest? But it's also nice sometimes.
Speaker 5: It is you know what, You're right, it's like speed dating.
Speaker 2: It's like yes, because sometimes my biggest gripe with therapy
Speaker 2: is that I go in and I just feel like.
Speaker 4: I'm unloading for a full hour. H and it drains me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I love therapy, like I see like I'm like
Speaker 2: such an advocate. I love it so much, but sometimes
Speaker 2: I feel like if I'm doing multiple a week, it's draining.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what do you say that, because you're you're on
Speaker 5: the other.
Speaker 6: Side about doing like multiple sessions a week or like.
Speaker 1: This therapy, say, Tanya is your patient, right and client
Speaker 1: and she's there unloading? Does it also is it also
Speaker 1: draining for the therapist? For me, it's absolutely not okay.
Speaker 1: For me, it's I find it energizing. I find it inspirational.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what we were talking about looping earlier.
Speaker 1: How you can get in your brain and you looping
Speaker 1: like it's basically like rumination where from the past or
Speaker 1: I mean something where you're just kind of rehearsing that
Speaker 1: scenario over and over, like you're telling the story to
Speaker 1: yourself about the guy.
Speaker 3: Huh exactly.
Speaker 1: And loop it's a different it's it can it can
Speaker 1: morph and change and it can get worse or it
Speaker 1: can get better. Yeah, So that's your loop. So you
Speaker 1: got out of your loop. And some people according to Sarah,
Speaker 1: because you were talking about never get out of.
Speaker 3: Their loop and you can stay stuck in your head.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're stuck in your head. So like, let's
Speaker 1: say that you can't get over this guy, well, you
Speaker 1: keep looping him and so you're looking.
Speaker 4: You only remember the good stuff, right or or the
Speaker 4: bad stuff.
Speaker 6: That's why people have really like black and white memories
Speaker 6: in regard to a past relationship.
Speaker 1: So when you finally got out of your loop with him,
Speaker 1: you kind of freed yourself and to other people.
Speaker 5: I mean, so you broke the loop.
Speaker 4: He broke the loop for me.
Speaker 2: Okay, then, but then it was up to you to
Speaker 2: move on, to step into my power, and you didn't.
Speaker 6: And that's and that's okay, that's amazing. That's what you
Speaker 6: want to have happened. In terms of doing like a
Speaker 6: speed kind of session, I think it's amazing. I think
Speaker 6: it's really helpful. Sometimes you just like hit the points
Speaker 6: and I really do never get overwhelmed or feel drained
Speaker 6: because it is so interteresting and it gets me out
Speaker 6: of my own loop.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: With whoever I'm talking to.
Speaker 2: But it's cool that you guys have this as something
Speaker 2: for people like, you know, like because you can't do
Speaker 2: you can't book a five minute session with a therapist, right,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: And so it's like this is.
Speaker 2: Kind of their way of getting a quick hit if
Speaker 2: they need something, you know what I mean, instead of
Speaker 2: like booking a full hour exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Like this lady called she was set to get married.
Speaker 1: Her wedding's four months out, and her husband to be
Speaker 1: couldn't make it to some kind of family dinner. So
Speaker 1: the brother flies in from Miami and he's like this single,
Speaker 1: like he's the man, right, So he goes to the dinner.
Speaker 1: She goes to the dinner, and she's like electrified through
Speaker 1: her body by this guy. And he brushes up against
Speaker 1: her and she was like, oh my god, this guy
Speaker 1: is like turning me on just by touch.
Speaker 5: Then walks through.
Speaker 1: To her car and says, if only we had met earlier.
Speaker 1: So he's like, this is his brother's going to marry
Speaker 1: this girl?
Speaker 3: That's so gross, right and pretty intent.
Speaker 5: She couldn't stop thinking about him, but.
Speaker 6: Like to the point of thinking I shouldn't get married.
Speaker 6: I'm having such intense feelings for this other guy.
Speaker 5: So what do you tell his brother?
Speaker 1: So so That's the beauty of the five minute is
Speaker 1: that we didn't have Like Sarah doesn't have time to
Speaker 1: really dig in and just said, you know, you gave
Speaker 1: it to her straight.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I can't remember that.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to remember, but I said, oh, oh, the
Speaker 6: transgression arousals?
Speaker 5: Okay, have you ever wanted?
Speaker 6: It's when something is erotic because it's taboo, and if
Speaker 6: it weren't taboo, you really really cared.
Speaker 3: That much about it. But it's like what's elusive and.
Speaker 5: Bad makes it? Did you ever have that? Tell us
Speaker 5: about your transgression?
Speaker 4: But I never, like you just.
Speaker 5: Want because it's bad.
Speaker 4: I've never been that girl.
Speaker 5: Okay, I don't.
Speaker 4: I like following the rules.
Speaker 2: I like, you know what I mean, Like, I'm not
Speaker 2: like a rule breaker, literally need the taboo.
Speaker 1: Has ever had transgressional arousal? We'll have to ask you.
Speaker 4: That's something I've never asked her, but I think I
Speaker 4: should a.
Speaker 3: Pretty interesting conversation.
Speaker 2: But what I was listening to you were giving somebody advice.
Speaker 2: It was like they were with somebody. The details aren't
Speaker 2: exactly accurate. I'm just going off my memory, but she
Speaker 2: was with someone for like eight years and they were
Speaker 2: engaged for five years and he wouldn't like talk about
Speaker 2: getting married.
Speaker 5: Yes, And he kept.
Speaker 2: Saying it's not the right time, it's not the right time.
Speaker 2: And like you said this line, you were like, drop
Speaker 2: the word time, and I.
Speaker 4: Was like that that means it's not right.
Speaker 5: It's not right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like that's a good one, really
Speaker 2: good about it.
Speaker 4: I was like, that's deep.
Speaker 5: Right, it's not the right time. It's not just the
Speaker 5: word time.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Se, So that's in a quickie form.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like I'm always amazed by Sarah because she can just
Speaker 1: get right to it because you you've seen and heard
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 4: And you're trained to do that.
Speaker 5: I'm trained to do that. Yeah, right, I know.
Speaker 2: I'm always like I'm anytime I have, like I talked
Speaker 2: to my therapist about something, I'm just like, how do
Speaker 2: you see it? Like I'm like, I wish I had
Speaker 2: it inherently in me to like have that ship or
Speaker 2: see the other side, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: Like you might have it inherently when it comes to
Speaker 6: hearing what's going on with somebody else, But I don't
Speaker 6: think any of us are able to look at things
Speaker 6: accurately in the same way that somebody else can when
Speaker 6: they're hearing it.
Speaker 2: Do you have sorry, and then we're going to get
Speaker 2: to some advice, But do you have any do you
Speaker 2: like clients or patients better?
Speaker 3: I think either one.
Speaker 4: I think clients.
Speaker 3: I usually say.
Speaker 5: Clients, but either one is like they're like they're sick.
Speaker 6: It was going to say it can be pathologizing, right,
Speaker 6: So that's I think request some people.
Speaker 2: So, do you have any clients that are kind of
Speaker 2: like always waiting for the shoe to drop, like my
Speaker 2: life is too good, something bad is going to happen, like.
Speaker 6: A type of anticipatory anxiety where they're kind of in
Speaker 6: that state.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, what is that?
Speaker 6: I think that ultimately that's about keeping ourselves safe because
Speaker 6: we're prepared for that bad thing. And I think if
Speaker 6: somebody is used to being in that space, it actually
Speaker 6: doesn't feel safe to feel safe because your guard is
Speaker 6: no longer up.
Speaker 3: So it's really counterintuitive.
Speaker 6: But if my mind stays just a little bit anxious,
Speaker 6: a little bit on guard, that actually gives me a
Speaker 6: feeling of safety.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, so it's not bad to have that.
Speaker 2: Because I was having this conversation with some friends over
Speaker 2: the weekend and I thought it so interesting that like
Speaker 2: some people just don't have that like that chip at all,
Speaker 2: and then it's like plagues them. Oh right, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of in the middle, like it doesn't plague me, but
Speaker 2: I do have it. Like I'm like, Okay, things are
Speaker 2: like good right now, what's going to happen?
Speaker 6: And you don't want it to steal your joy? Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, you don't want it to take you out
Speaker 6: of the present moment. So I think it is a
Speaker 6: fine line in somebody who's just blissfully unaware, right, yes,
Speaker 6: and you know, versus our thinking about something you know constantly.
Speaker 6: But it's it's I don't really think of it as
Speaker 6: good or bad. It's just protective. It's just part of
Speaker 6: the human condition for some people.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, we're going to get into a couple of emails.
Speaker 4: If you don't mind, I would love that.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: This is from Anonymous. I'm thirty one and currently going
Speaker 2: through a divorce after leaving an abusive marriage. For the
Speaker 2: first time, I think I may have feelings for a woman.
Speaker 2: I'm open to exploring that possibility, But the complication is
Speaker 2: that she's my coworker and I'm technically above her at work.
Speaker 2: She's openly gay, openly gay, and for months there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of flirting, teasing, eye contact, and what feels
Speaker 2: like chemistry. At times, she seems interested, but she also
Speaker 2: has turned down invitations to hang out outside of work. Recently,
Speaker 2: she invited me out for drinks after work, and I
Speaker 2: thought it might be a one on one hangout, but
Speaker 2: a couple of days later she suggested inviting other coworkers,
Speaker 2: which left me even more confused. Now I'm wondering if
Speaker 2: I'm reading too much into it. How do I figure
Speaker 2: out if there's something there without making things awkward at
Speaker 2: work or ruining the friendship.
Speaker 6: I think it's really complicated, and I'm going to say
Speaker 6: what I think, but I want to hear what you think.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think that she should find someone else to
Speaker 1: explore the female.
Speaker 5: Relationship outside of work.
Speaker 1: Outside of work, I feel like she's kind of making
Speaker 1: a mess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that completely, so accompanying exactly.
Speaker 6: It's not a good idea, especially with her being her subordinate.
Speaker 6: That's not it's not a good idea. And it seems
Speaker 6: like that this woman has mixed feelings about it as well,
Speaker 6: because she keeps sort of moving closer and then pulling
Speaker 6: back plans. Then she invites other people. You know, she
Speaker 6: turns down offers the plans. I think that the woman
Speaker 6: that she's interested in since is that.
Speaker 2: But this is why it's good to have you guys here,
Speaker 2: because if I was just what would you do?
Speaker 4: It would have been like shoot your shot?
Speaker 1: Oh see, I was thinking, see what's asking?
Speaker 3: But you're okay, Say.
Speaker 5: You're her, Say you're anonymous.
Speaker 1: You're experimenting like you don't think right, So why experiment
Speaker 1: with something.
Speaker 5: That could love in your face?
Speaker 3: Correct or someone?
Speaker 1: Yeah you can hurt and you really don't want that,
Speaker 1: but you just want to see I don't know, do
Speaker 1: I like women? Let me go find someone super fun, right,
Speaker 1: who I feel comfortable with, who I could I don't know,
Speaker 1: explore this.
Speaker 5: With and then make up my mind right, But I
Speaker 5: don't know.
Speaker 2: No, it's actually my really smart advice. My advice is.
Speaker 4: Questionable.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is from anonymous friends attended x ex's wedding. Okay,
Speaker 2: So my ex husband and I divorced two and a
Speaker 2: half years ago after ten years together. It was mostly amicable.
Speaker 2: The challenge is that our friend groups are deeply intertwined.
Speaker 2: This weekend, my best my three best friends traveled to
Speaker 2: Charleston for my ex husband's wedding, and I found out
Speaker 2: through Instagram photos. What hurt was that none of them
Speaker 2: gave me a heads up or checked in beforehand. They
Speaker 2: said that they had mentioned they they've said they didn't
Speaker 2: mention it because they didn't want to upset me or
Speaker 2: bring up painful memories. But to me, a wedding feels
Speaker 2: like a big enough event that a close friend would
Speaker 2: at least acknowledge for context. I'm in a wonderful relationship myself.
Speaker 2: This isn't about wanting him back. It's just about feeling
Speaker 2: supported by the people I considered my closest friend.
Speaker 5: Oh that hurts, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 6: I mean, I understand that most people are hesitant to
Speaker 6: have difficult discussions, but I think that's something we owe
Speaker 6: our friends and the people we care about, is the
Speaker 6: willingness to have an uncomfortable conversation. And that didn't happen
Speaker 6: in the situation. And that's why it's so hurtful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you really care about the person, you're
Speaker 1: going to put it out there, no matter how painful
Speaker 1: it's going to be. Yeah, And then to find out
Speaker 1: on social media that, to me, that's just like the
Speaker 1: worst because we all done it. We'd all opened up
Speaker 1: someone's whatever and seen something and go out like that.
Speaker 5: Of course that hurts it. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: That this was happening or well, I felt like I
Speaker 1: was really close with this person, but they didn't share this.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the betrayal is not that they attended the wedding.
Speaker 6: I mean, she says that the friend groups are intertwined.
Speaker 6: It's that they didn't have that. They were not willing
Speaker 6: to have that difficult conversation.
Speaker 2: They chose their Let's say they had the conversation, how
Speaker 2: would they have it? Because I'm like, I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to run through my head. Okay, let's say I really
Speaker 2: can't even put myself in this situation right now. But like, okay,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to somebody's wedding that one of my
Speaker 2: best friends.
Speaker 4: Was dating in the past, right right, how do I.
Speaker 2: Even start that conversation? Like, Hey, I just want to
Speaker 2: let you know we're going to so and so's wedding.
Speaker 3: That's perfect? Is that not Awkward's And that's the thing
Speaker 3: is it's going to be awkward. Embrace it. You can
Speaker 3: even say this is awkward.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would love starting conversations like that, like
Speaker 1: this is gonna be really hard to say, but it
Speaker 1: can or this is.
Speaker 6: I'm telling you something. I'm going to tell you something
Speaker 6: it may be hard to hear, and you go into it.
Speaker 6: There's nothing wrong with that, and I think people deeply
Speaker 6: appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I know I like to I feel like I shy
Speaker 2: away from awkwardness too, But it's not the right thing
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: Most people do.
Speaker 6: We don't like we hate the idea of making somebody
Speaker 6: else feel bad unless you're a psychopath. So by virtue
Speaker 6: of the fact that you're not a psychopath, it doesn't
Speaker 6: feel good, and that's that's not a bad thing that
Speaker 6: it doesn't feel good. It also doesn't mean you should
Speaker 6: do it just because it doesn't feel good.
Speaker 5: I have a.
Speaker 1: Problem too with that confrontation, Like I when, for instance,
Speaker 1: there's someone I know who if I tell her a
Speaker 1: piece of information will actually help her life, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's my business to tell her, and I
Speaker 1: feel awkward telling her.
Speaker 3: What's the concern? What's your worst case scenario?
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess there isn't one if it's going
Speaker 5: to help her life.
Speaker 3: But is it that, like she won't be my friend anymore.
Speaker 3: I mean I know that. I mean like to break
Speaker 3: it down to like a super kind of Oh.
Speaker 1: No, I guess not. I guess there really is. I
Speaker 1: guess it's just more that I don't want to have
Speaker 1: to say I don't want have to have to be
Speaker 1: the one to say it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want to be the bearer.
Speaker 1: Of bad news and not even really bad news, just
Speaker 1: like pay attention to this, like, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I have a hard time with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so tough because I feel like even sometimes
Speaker 2: like we'll get a lot of emails or people saying, like,
Speaker 2: I know my friend is about to marry a bad guy. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: and like, you know, should I say something? And my
Speaker 2: advice is always.
Speaker 5: No, yeah, let her learn for herself, right.
Speaker 2: Because if you say something and then they're in their
Speaker 2: head about it, and then they end up not getting married,
Speaker 2: and then it's on you, And it.
Speaker 6: Depends, I think, on whether it's just a feeling or
Speaker 6: there's evidence that he was left with somebody else, sure,
Speaker 6: a person No, no, no, no, this happened to tell us.
Speaker 4: I was in college. I didn't like my friend's boyfriend.
Speaker 2: I thought he was like, not a great guy, and
Speaker 2: I told her, and I will never do it again
Speaker 2: because she ended up marrying him. Okay, now great, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now I'm like the you know, the one that
Speaker 2: I didn't believe in him.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, not my rodeo, not my poney.
Speaker 3: I understand the hesitation you had that experience.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it scarred me.
Speaker 5: It was traumatic. Yeah it sounds like it was.
Speaker 2: Yes, I wasn't. Okay from anonymous. These are all anonymous.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: I'm thirteen weeks pregnant with my first child, and my
Speaker 2: husband and I are thrilled. My boss and I have
Speaker 2: worked together for years and are also friends outside of work.
Speaker 2: She helped me grow professionally, but I've also worked hard
Speaker 2: to earn my raises and promotions. This year, five women
Speaker 2: on our team became pregnant around the same time, creating
Speaker 2: overlapping maternity leaves and added stress for management. When I
Speaker 2: told my boss I was pregnant, her initial reaction was great,
Speaker 2: I'll just quit. She later apologized, and I thought we
Speaker 2: had moved past it. Recently, I learned she's been telling
Speaker 2: coworkers that after everything she's done for me professionally, she
Speaker 2: feels like I've taken advantage of her and that this
Speaker 2: is how I've repaid her.
Speaker 5: She has even.
Speaker 2: Questioned whether our relationship can recover because of my pregnancy.
Speaker 2: Hearing that was incredibly hurtful because I never viewed my
Speaker 2: career opportunities as something that gave anyone a say in
Speaker 2: when I start my family. How do I maintain this
Speaker 2: relationship moving forward without taking on guilt that doesn't belong
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 4: That's loaded.
Speaker 3: That's pretty serious.
Speaker 6: I mean it comes that's I think pretty deeply inappropriate. Yeah,
Speaker 6: to even make a comment about somebody else's pregnancy and
Speaker 6: their life choices.
Speaker 2: You know, I want to hear your advice on this,
Speaker 2: But then I want to go into a dovetail of
Speaker 2: this conversation.
Speaker 6: Oh I'm sorry, right now you want to hear my advice, Like.
Speaker 4: What what would you tell her to do in this situation?
Speaker 6: God, this is complicated because it is her boss, so
Speaker 6: you're kind of limited in how direct.
Speaker 3: It you should probably be.
Speaker 6: I think there's something to be said for just pulling back, gently,
Speaker 6: pulling back maybe a little bit more boundaried. And as
Speaker 6: far as what she says, it depends on the context.
Speaker 3: In terms of.
Speaker 6: Where she would like to see that relation in the future,
Speaker 6: Like is this a relationship where she wants to maintain
Speaker 6: a personal connection or would she feel better kind of
Speaker 6: moving it into a professional sphere only.
Speaker 4: Right like picking a lane, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's your dovetail?
Speaker 2: My dovetail is the whole, like the pregnancy culture with
Speaker 2: women and work. I feel like I had a girlfriend
Speaker 2: who got her dream job and she wanted to start
Speaker 2: a family like right away, but she was like, I
Speaker 2: can't do that because I just got my dream job,
Speaker 2: so I can't just like go on maternity leave, And
Speaker 2: so she put it off, trying trying for her baby
Speaker 2: for like a year, and then she ended up having
Speaker 2: a harder time getting pregnant than she thought. And it
Speaker 2: just made me like sad because I'm just like, as women,
Speaker 2: like we do, we have to think about all these things,
Speaker 2: you know, like and it's like such a hard Starting
Speaker 2: a family is like such a hard thing in and
Speaker 2: of itself, but then you add that layer of like
Speaker 2: career onto it, and it's just like tough. How do
Speaker 2: you navigate? Do you deal with women that have to
Speaker 2: deal with any of this stuff?
Speaker 3: I do deal with that, and it comes up.
Speaker 6: I think comes up more often than we wish it
Speaker 6: did because of exactly the reasons that you said that
Speaker 6: it's complicated. It's not like you just decide to do
Speaker 6: this one day and then you just switch into something
Speaker 6: else the next day. If you choose to have a child,
Speaker 6: you are simultaneously a mother and a career person, right,
Speaker 6: And I don't know that our culture is as supportive
Speaker 6: as it should be.
Speaker 5: Okay, I have a movie forew to watch both of you.
Speaker 5: We haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 1: Sasha Varon Cohen is the star of Ladies First. Okay,
Speaker 1: and so what have you heard of it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I know it's band new. Oh yeah, it's brand new.
Speaker 1: I think it just came out this weekend actually. And
Speaker 1: he is just the worst kind of male boss.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: He objectifies the women, he puts them in all the rules,
Speaker 1: and he's the man, and then he works with the man.
Speaker 1: So these two men they're just like they're like just pigs.
Speaker 1: Well it's a huge, successful company. And one day he
Speaker 1: is chasing one of his employees out who wants to
Speaker 1: quit because she doesn't want to work for Pig anymore.
Speaker 1: And he hits his head and when he comes to
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, all the roles are reversed. Now
Speaker 1: the women are in charge of the world, and he's objectified,
Speaker 1: so all the billboards instead of being like sexy women,
Speaker 1: it's like a man with his butt cheeks out.
Speaker 5: And now he is the lower ring guy.
Speaker 1: And the people that used to be his minions are
Speaker 1: now running the company, like the cleaning lady is now
Speaker 1: the owner of this other woman he put at the
Speaker 1: front desk just because he didn't trust that she could
Speaker 1: do anything else, is now the CEO. Wow, And the
Speaker 1: girl he was running after becomes his boss. And he
Speaker 1: has to go to all these dinners and he dresses
Speaker 1: sexy trying to get attention, and it just shows really
Speaker 1: how objectified women are in the workplace. And it's just
Speaker 1: so great the journey that he goes through and he
Speaker 1: comes out, of course, he comes out a better guy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do a spoiler alert, but it's
Speaker 1: a really funny kind of dark dark humor no humor comedy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's really it's really fun and funny.
Speaker 1: And then you see, because it's so extreme, you see
Speaker 1: how hard it is for women, like truly hard it
Speaker 1: is for us versus men. Because most of the men
Speaker 1: are the decision makers, and so when they flipped it around,
Speaker 1: it was great because they even they did every detail,
Speaker 1: Like he would go to these dinners, the women would
Speaker 1: be in these suits, and then he would have like
Speaker 1: this low cut shirt on and showing his boobs basically,
Speaker 1: and then he was invited over to the CEO's penthouse, right,
Speaker 1: and she answers in a robe.
Speaker 5: It's like Harvey.
Speaker 1: Weinstein, kind of stuffy, but it's a great and you see,
Speaker 1: I think every man needs to watch it.
Speaker 5: I think every woman needs to watch it.
Speaker 6: Sound funny, It sounds really funny, but it also sounds
Speaker 6: that it touches on some pretty important things, yes, which
Speaker 6: I think is what a great movie ideally does, even
Speaker 6: a comedy.
Speaker 2: I just think I feel like being a woman, especially
Speaker 2: a career woman, is just like such an interesting, layered,
Speaker 2: complex thing to be in twenty twenty six. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: like I'm just going through it now, where like my
Speaker 2: friends are like going on attorney leave and they're like
Speaker 2: it's the weirdest thing, going from like grinding every single
Speaker 2: day to them being swept into this like other world,
Speaker 2: watching like somebody fill in for you or whatever.
Speaker 4: Your whatever's happening.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, your maternity to leave
Speaker 2: is up, and then you have to transition back to
Speaker 2: that with like all this going on at home, like
Speaker 2: it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Happened on our show. So Darlene, my producer, she got pregnant.
Speaker 1: We were all happy for her. She was an unexpected pregnancy,
Speaker 1: like she's like it's an IUD fail, but she was
Speaker 1: the real They were so happy, and she has now
Speaker 1: the most adorable four year old boy, like such a
Speaker 1: blessing in their lives. He came into their world and
Speaker 1: they have she's a sixty or eighteen year old and
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old and now a four year old,
Speaker 1: so he has brought so much joy to their lives.
Speaker 1: But when she came back after her maternity leave, she
Speaker 1: had had a fill in and it was it was
Speaker 1: awkward for all of us, like we were so happy
Speaker 1: to have her back, but then we'd also fall in
Speaker 1: love with her fill in.
Speaker 5: So it was like this weird but great transition.
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, like we missed her so much,
Speaker 1: but I can remember having these conversations with her and
Speaker 1: she was like it felt so weird to like hear
Speaker 1: someone doing my thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And we're in the radio, so sometimes she'd be on
Speaker 1: the race, so it was it was all very like uncomfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even and we'd be a woman and then having a
Speaker 1: woman and having done maturnity leave myself and having women
Speaker 1: fill in for me and then coming back you know,
Speaker 1: it just it's it is. You're right, it's a really
Speaker 1: awkward thing because you're also hormonal. Yeah, and then you're
Speaker 1: like you've been through so much and then you're coming
Speaker 1: back to a world that's basically the same, yes, and
Speaker 1: so it's kind of like this Twilight.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's a big transition and it's like
Speaker 6: this temporary transition. You can go into it and then
Speaker 6: you're yank back.
Speaker 5: Yes yeah, yeah, you're not even.
Speaker 4: The same person exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: But I tell you, I think your priorities shift and
Speaker 1: then not in a bad way, but in a good
Speaker 1: way where now you're like really super woman because now
Speaker 1: you're like, I've got it's Christmas every day, I have
Speaker 1: my baby, I'm back at work, I love it, and
Speaker 1: I'm and then you just want to like do your
Speaker 1: best at both.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So but there is that awkwardness that the re entry
Speaker 1: period is strange.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a friend Mary to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah to a he's a movie actor, so he goes
Speaker 1: away for three months at a time and she's like,
Speaker 1: re entry sucks. He comes back and dumps his laundry
Speaker 1: and we're like strangers in the house again. And even
Speaker 1: though they're facetiming every night, right've been married for you know,
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Re Entry when for anyone, let alone also
Speaker 1: a pregnancy, I think, is a really hard thing for humans.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean there's so many changes all at once,
Speaker 6: Like you mentioned physical changes, relationships within the partnership. You know,
Speaker 6: if you're having a child with somebody, then you have
Speaker 6: the career element.
Speaker 3: So it's a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot at once.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, as women, we we don't
Speaker 1: I don't think we celebrate ourselves enough or or really
Speaker 1: like look at what we do, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? I mean I know that you you are
Speaker 1: a big advocate for powerful women.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's like that's right.
Speaker 5: But I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think that we carry out with us every
Speaker 1: day as much as we should.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, And it's like we are so awesome,
Speaker 2: it's so complex and like we also feel things so much,
Speaker 2: and like, I don't know, I've.
Speaker 4: Just obviously been having these like.
Speaker 2: Existential conversations like myself, I was a late.
Speaker 5: I don't know, but I.
Speaker 4: Feel like, do you think most are most of your
Speaker 4: clients women?
Speaker 6: I would say about sixty sixty five percent women?
Speaker 2: What's the biggest thing that you I know that there's
Speaker 2: like client privileges and you can't share specifics or anything that,
Speaker 2: but like, what's like the biggest overarching theme that you
Speaker 2: see in a lot of your way clients.
Speaker 5: That's a great question.
Speaker 6: I think it's not really that different from my male clients.
Speaker 6: It's most of it is relational within a partnership, maybe family, friends,
Speaker 6: co workers. So whatever's going on oftentimes presents as relational,
Speaker 6: whether it's a man or a woman, and then you
Speaker 6: kind of dig more deeply into the reasons for that.
Speaker 5: Sarah always says people be peopling.
Speaker 4: Well, I do find that.
Speaker 2: I do find it, like relationships so interesting because I
Speaker 2: feel like two humans. Yeah, we're born raised differently, right,
Speaker 2: deal with things differently, and then you're in a relationship
Speaker 2: and you have to figure out how you do things together.
Speaker 4: That's not a natural thing, right.
Speaker 5: It's not a lot of compromise.
Speaker 6: It has a lot of compromise, and it is a
Speaker 6: huge adjustment period.
Speaker 3: For both people.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but hopefully within that adjustment you kind of grow
Speaker 6: together and it's actually part of what strengthens that bond.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember when I just met my now husband, when
Speaker 2: we would fight, like when we didn't really fight that much,
Speaker 2: but like you know, you have disagreements and arguments, right,
Speaker 2: He always needed to like step away and like process
Speaker 2: and I used to be anxiously attached, so I would
Speaker 2: need to talk it out right then and there, like
Speaker 2: I could There's no way I could go.
Speaker 4: To sleep, sleep on this and then talk in the morning.
Speaker 4: Like I was like, this is crazy.
Speaker 2: And so it took like a couple rounds of arguments
Speaker 2: where we both were just like having to like be
Speaker 2: like I was like I can't just go to sleep
Speaker 2: and like not talk about things, and He's like, well,
Speaker 2: I can't just like hash things out when I'm tired,
Speaker 2: you know. So I had to like come to a
Speaker 2: compromise and like now we have a kind of a
Speaker 2: good flow going to have these situations.
Speaker 4: But it took a minute to get there.
Speaker 6: It does take a minute, because, as you said, you're
Speaker 6: talking about two different people who regulate themselves differently like you.
Speaker 3: It sounds like regulate like through that.
Speaker 6: Connection through resolution, where for your partner he regulated by
Speaker 6: having a little bit of space to regulate and then.
Speaker 3: He moves back towards you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but at the beginning, especially if you don't have
Speaker 6: a sense of safety within that, it can be pretty
Speaker 6: destabilizing for both people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so true, so true, because I always thought space
Speaker 2: meant like, oh, you're going to take like the ultimate space.
Speaker 6: Yeah, space of space mint abandonment exactly. And that's why
Speaker 6: if people are arguing and they have those two different
Speaker 6: attachment styles, what I always tell people is space is
Speaker 6: often good, but space needs to be taken with the
Speaker 6: understanding I'll be back in an hour, you brit me
Speaker 6: back in two hours, I'll be back in fifteen minutes. Right.
Speaker 6: As long as the anxiously attached person has an understanding
Speaker 6: of the expectation, they're usually okay. And that can change
Speaker 6: that dialogue one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Do you believe in all that, like the attachment style
Speaker 2: one hundred languages, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, especially attachment style.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can learn.
Speaker 6: So much and understand somebody with a pretty accurate degree
Speaker 6: of clarity once you know.
Speaker 4: The attachment style.
Speaker 2: Do you I feel like, what population of the world
Speaker 2: are securely attached?
Speaker 5: Do you know that.
Speaker 3: Around fifty that many?
Speaker 6: That's the latest number, that was around fifty percent by.
Speaker 1: That So secure meaning no worries, not no worries, not
Speaker 1: no worries.
Speaker 4: My husband is securely attached.
Speaker 2: So he's like, doesn't really need much validation, Like he
Speaker 2: knows I love him, he knows even if we take
Speaker 2: some space, like doesn't mean like.
Speaker 5: The wakay, just like that's a confidence in the relationship.
Speaker 6: Yes, and a confidence in himself where even if things
Speaker 6: go awry with somebody, you know that you're going to
Speaker 6: be okay.
Speaker 3: You don't have that life and.
Speaker 1: Death okay that comes securely attached.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you probably are securely attached.
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel I feel like we'll always work
Speaker 1: it out and I don't feel anxiety when an issue arises.
Speaker 1: I feel like, oh, you know, well and even more
Speaker 1: as time goes by. Yeah, like I feel I feel
Speaker 1: like yeah, but I didn't like really know the definition
Speaker 1: of that securely attached.
Speaker 2: It's securely attached, anxiously attached, and what's the last time.
Speaker 6: There's like secure, and then you have anxious, and then
Speaker 6: there's avoidant.
Speaker 4: Within that Becca's avoidant.
Speaker 6: There's a smaller category avoidant. She really, Yeah, how does
Speaker 6: that show up between the two of you?
Speaker 4: It's awful?
Speaker 5: No, I mean with with you or with her partner?
Speaker 4: No, no, no, but with us as a friendship?
Speaker 5: Oh okay, yeah, I mean we're best.
Speaker 4: Friends, so like, yeah, it's not.
Speaker 1: She's probably you guys, I'm sure you talk about it
Speaker 1: a lot. Yes, yes, So she avoids what.
Speaker 2: She avoids conflict confrontation, Like she just like she'll just
Speaker 2: shut it out, she'll shut it down, and I'm like
Speaker 2: the anxious one, so I'm like needing it from.
Speaker 6: Her very So how have you negotiated that within your friendship?
Speaker 4: A great question.
Speaker 2: I think that we both know who each other the
Speaker 2: other person is, so like she'll know when she needs
Speaker 2: to like give me a little more, and I'll know
Speaker 2: when to back off of her love.
Speaker 5: So you guys compromise, Yeah, we compromise.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're because you were friends with
Speaker 1: Becca before you met your husband? Do you feel like
Speaker 1: your friendship and the way your energies mix attracted you
Speaker 1: to a man like your husband.
Speaker 5: He's not avoidant, but he's.
Speaker 2: Like he's like the amazing And what's funny is they're
Speaker 2: very similar.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's I'm wondering, Like, did you see a.
Speaker 4: Little fiance is very similar to me?
Speaker 3: Okay, Usually anxious and avoidant pair.
Speaker 6: That's why when you said your husband was secure, I
Speaker 6: was like, that's interesting because more oft than not secure
Speaker 6: will pair with secure. Okay, anxious and avoidant. It's almost
Speaker 6: like magnets.
Speaker 5: That's interesting fit each other. That's cool.
Speaker 4: That's so funny.
Speaker 2: I think I'm more securely attached now, like I was, like,
Speaker 2: I'm like night and day compared to how it was
Speaker 2: in the beginning.
Speaker 6: Well, there's there's such a thing as earned secure. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you can become secure. Yeah we've earned it telling yeah,
Speaker 6: yes you earned it.
Speaker 4: Finally, I thank you guys so much for good.
Speaker 3: This was amazing.
Speaker 2: Tell everybody when the podcast drops, where they can listen,
Speaker 2: where they can watch, where they can follow all the things.
Speaker 1: So it is therapy Thursday. Here's the thing, enter Ellen
Speaker 1: case therapy Thursday. Because we're sending people to the therapies.
Speaker 1: So it's early case therapy Thursday. Like if you put
Speaker 1: that in your Google search or whatever.
Speaker 2: So I looked at the podcast app and I just
Speaker 2: typed in Therapy Thursday and you popped right.
Speaker 5: Okay, great, that's good.
Speaker 1: That means we're winning that working, yeah, because we're like
Speaker 1: we're started pretty much, so so that's good to know.
Speaker 1: When you go to YouTube, it's Therapy Thursday podkay, And
Speaker 1: then all of our episodes are up there on video.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, so Therapy Thursday on the iHeartRadio app
Speaker 1: and wherever you listen to your podcast.
Speaker 5: Every Thursday we dropped new episodes, okay, and then we
Speaker 5: also put them up on YouTube. Perfect. Yeah yeah yeah perfect.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for so much.
Speaker 2: Thanks yes a, dear Bonnie. I hope everybody got some
Speaker 2: great advice. It's just like morphed so perfectly together.
Speaker 5: O love you.
Speaker 4: I will, I will