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Speaker 1: Quody Dius. But Joseph Scott More, we do obviously have

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Speaker 1: capital punishment in some states in these United States, and

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Speaker 1: there are states that have it on the books, but

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Speaker 1: they rarely if ever use it, and there's a myriad

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Speaker 1: of reasons. Most of the time it's some kind of

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Speaker 1: political issue. And then there are others that, in the

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Speaker 1: words of Ron White, seem like they have an express lane,

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Speaker 1: like Texas. But when you have a state that hasn't

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Speaker 1: executed someone since nineteen ninety nine, in a case hits

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Speaker 1: the news and it's so profound that the governor of

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Speaker 1: that state, Joshapiro, states that he is going to sign

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Speaker 1: off on the execution of an individual. You know, the

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Speaker 1: crime has to be chilling, to say the least. And

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Speaker 1: to add another layer to this, we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: accused being a female. Today, we're going to discuss the

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Speaker 1: case that is arguably one of the most disturbing things

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Speaker 1: that I've come across, and that Dave has come across

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of months and hit his like

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Speaker 1: a sucker punch to the back of the head, horribly tragic.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the death of a precious

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Speaker 1: little one named Leon and what appears used to be

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Speaker 1: an assault on his twin brother. And oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: these children are not just children, they're babies. They were

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Speaker 1: only six weeks old. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is bodybags, Dave. This this case has I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know where to begin. Really, I'm really gonna need

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Speaker 1: your help, and I'll help you too. It's this is

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Speaker 1: something that really grabbed me by my guts, the tragedy

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Speaker 1: in this and we're going to talk about the alleged

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Speaker 1: perpetrator in this case. But Dave, we've got there is

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Speaker 1: nothing and I've made my my position very clear on this.

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Speaker 1: There is nothing more precious in this world. And sweet

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Speaker 1: little babies. I love babies. I hate to see harm

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Speaker 1: come to them. And this is so over the top

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Speaker 1: and the circumstances are so bizarre that I'll put it

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Speaker 1: to you this way. I'm glad I'm not an investigator

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Speaker 1: in this case. I'm glad that I can take like

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Speaker 1: this I don't know, thirty thousand foot view of it

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Speaker 1: and kind of talk about it from our perspective on

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Speaker 1: a podcast as opposed to being on the ground working.

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Speaker 1: And it's damaging it's really it's damaging, I think to

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Speaker 1: the minds of people that are having to observe all

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Speaker 1: this and begin to try to put the pieces together.

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Speaker 2: Here, man, I can't imagine how investigators deal with things

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Speaker 2: like this for real, because you are talking about babies,

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Speaker 2: and we're talking about twins that are six weeks old,

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Speaker 2: and you're talking about a trusted family friend. Here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: Nicole Versey is a pursuing her PhD in behavioral medicine

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Speaker 2: at University of California, San Diego. She's friends with the

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Speaker 2: parents of these twins, and she travels from San Diego

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Speaker 2: to Pittsburgh to basically give them a break, get to

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Speaker 2: see the kids, you know, And that's what it was

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Speaker 2: all set up to be. Now there has been some

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Speaker 2: confusion because people can't understand how this could happen, and

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Speaker 2: I'm with them. I don't know. I just know that

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Speaker 2: the facts are very, very thin, very straightforward. Nicole Versey

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Speaker 2: was staying in an Airbnb apartment about a mile away

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Speaker 2: from where the parents of Airy and leon Katz were living,

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Speaker 2: and she comes to town. She is babysitting the children

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Speaker 2: when their parents go out on a Saturday afternoon Nicole

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Speaker 2: Versey takes a pick of airy because she sees that

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Speaker 2: he's got some blood in his diaper and his penis

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Speaker 2: is swollen. She takes a picture of this and sends

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Speaker 2: it to the parents. Getting this picture, they immediately come

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Speaker 2: home and like they grab aerry and they headed the hospital.

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Speaker 2: It's about six o'clock Saturday evening, and while they are gone,

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Speaker 2: they leave Nicole Versy with Leon, the other twin, And

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Speaker 2: about eleven o'clock that night, Nicole calls and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: Leon bumped his head. He's not acting normal. One of

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Speaker 2: y'all needs to come home. And so the dad says,

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Speaker 2: call nine one one, I'm on my way, And so

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Speaker 2: at eleven fifteen, Nicole Versy calls nine one one, and

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Speaker 2: her story Joe was that she had fallen asleep on

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Speaker 2: the couch. The baby was in his little bouncy seat,

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Speaker 2: and when she woke up to him crying to get

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Speaker 2: a bottle. She gets the bottle and as she's in

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Speaker 2: the kitchen, she hears a thud and she comes back

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Speaker 2: into the room and finds Leon on the floor with

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Speaker 2: his head bumped. That's the story she told. That's the

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Speaker 2: story she sticks with to this day Joe and Leon

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Speaker 2: was treated by medics and taken to the hospital and

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Speaker 2: it got ugly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean developmentally first off, one of the big

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Speaker 1: questions I have, and I'm going to limit my comments

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Speaker 1: on the front end here to Leon. Okay, right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking six weeks old, this child. I'm going back

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Speaker 1: in my memory bank. I don't think a six week

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Speaker 1: old can roll over. And you're talking about this dynamic

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Speaker 1: of being and they're calling it, you know when I

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Speaker 1: heard it at first, they're calling it a bouncer, and

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Speaker 1: I'd really like to know more about this device. And

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Speaker 1: this is one of the things that we do in

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Speaker 1: death investigation or forensics. If a child is in is

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Speaker 1: in some kind of conveyance, or they're in some type

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Speaker 1: of device that say, for instance, it's suspended between two doors.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking of an older child here that is

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Speaker 1: truly a bouncer, you know, where they can bounce up

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Speaker 1: and down in this thing. And then you've got these

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Speaker 1: little a note because my grandbaby's had them. They're like

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Speaker 1: a little electronic I don't know how to describe it.

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Speaker 1: You lay the child down and the thing kind of

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Speaker 1: vibrates and it will bounce up and down. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: they're in a reclined position and it helps them sleep,

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, how how does a six week old

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Speaker 1: fall or roll out of something like that. I don't

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Speaker 1: the dynamic of it would be quite troubling. And just

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Speaker 1: just so that our friends know, when you're in forensics

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Speaker 1: and your death investigator, particularly when it comes to kids,

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Speaker 1: you'd be surprised day perhaps I don't know, maybe you wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: I have I have brought back to the office any

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Speaker 1: number of devices, cribs, I've disassembled cribs. I've brought cribs

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Speaker 1: back intact to the Medical Examiner's office so that we

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Speaker 1: could actually take a look at them and examine them. Food,

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Speaker 1: you know, anything the child is eating, I'll bring it back.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'll just take it from the scene and

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Speaker 1: bring it back and you know, we'll we'll take a

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Speaker 1: look at it. Because one of the things that you're

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Speaker 1: looking for, particularly when it comes to children, is if

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Speaker 1: a child falls out of something that's it even extends

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Speaker 1: out further than the welfare of that particular child. You're

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Speaker 1: looking at something if it is being sold to the

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Speaker 1: general public. You're wondering if there's some kind of fault

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Speaker 1: in the mechanism and those things. You know that those

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Speaker 1: recalls go out all the time, so we suspect those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things, and of course there's always in the

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Speaker 1: back of our mind we're always thinking homicide too, because

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Speaker 1: you know, babies, babies just don't simply pass away. And

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Speaker 1: I know that there are people out there that are

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Speaker 1: maybe thinking, well, you know, this could be a SIDS case. No,

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Speaker 1: it couldn't because actually, on the low end of SIDS,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't hit that mark chronologically you're generally looking at.

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Speaker 1: SIDS generally runs from about two months to ten months.

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Speaker 1: So our suspicions get up. It raises our suspicions if

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Speaker 1: you're under that two month mark in the age, and

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Speaker 1: if you're over that ten month mark and you're heading

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Speaker 1: out to a full year, you know, well, no, that's

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Speaker 1: that's not you know, we still don't know what actually

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Speaker 1: causes it.

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Speaker 2: And you don't have damage to your skull either, right.

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Speaker 1: No, you don't. And that's one of the one of

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Speaker 1: the issues with Leon here, Dave, and we we can

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Speaker 1: we can explore that further. But yeah, he he did

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Speaker 1: sustain a head injury. And look, I mean, babies can

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Speaker 1: injure their heads. They can. But here's the problem. In

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Speaker 1: order for a relatively newborn child to sustain a fracture

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Speaker 1: to the skull is the exception and not the nun dave. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll give people, I hate to say, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: give anybody the benefit of the doubt. However, all right,

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Speaker 1: what are the odds? What are the odds that you

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Speaker 1: could have twins and within this timeframe, this window, you

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Speaker 1: would have both twins sustain serious This is not something

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Speaker 1: This is not like a scratch. It's not even like

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Speaker 1: the kiddi cat came up and scratched the little baby's hand.

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Speaker 1: We're talking significant trauma. What do you think the odds

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Speaker 1: are with twins that both of the children are going

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Speaker 1: to sustain catastrophic, catastrophic injuries. I gotta tell you, I'm

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Speaker 1: not buying. It doesn't sit well with me at all.

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Speaker 1: If I'm an investigator on this man, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, to look at the injuries. It might be from

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Speaker 2: my way of thinking, looking at the first injury, the

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Speaker 2: first child, because I was trying to figure out what

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Speaker 2: was going on in the dynamic of the adults the

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Speaker 2: parents here as and how come Nicole was there you know,

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Speaker 2: and I really because you're thinking there's got to be more,

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Speaker 2: and there really isn't There really is a situation where

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Speaker 2: Nicole Versy is friends and connected to the parents, to

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Speaker 2: the mother in particular on an intellectual level. They studied

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Speaker 2: the same things and got to know one another while

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Speaker 2: they studied the same things, and Nicole kind of got

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Speaker 2: close to them from that standpoint, and they bonded, you know,

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Speaker 2: as students of the same stuff. And when the children came,

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Speaker 2: as you've mentioned a couple of times, twins are double

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Speaker 2: the fun. They are. Everything is twice I remember my

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Speaker 2: mother had twins. I was they're six years younger than

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Speaker 2: I am, and I remember everything about how much time

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Speaker 2: and energy will spend and it's substantial and anyway, so

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Speaker 2: it seems to me Nicule Versu was being the best

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Speaker 2: friend to the couple.

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Speaker 1: She could be smokes. I can't believe you're just saying this,

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Speaker 1: because I was thinking, you're Look, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: make too much of this, but if you're a parent

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Speaker 1: and you're dealing with two newborns, she's going to seem

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Speaker 1: like an angel descended from heaven that has lighted on

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Speaker 1: your doorstep to say you guys, go and take a break.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got this. I got it for a

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Speaker 1: few hours, and hey, I'm gonna get a bed and

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Speaker 1: breakfast here or whatever it is in an air apartment.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to stay there and I'll be right down

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Speaker 1: the street and all you have to do is call me.

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Speaker 1: I just care about you guys so much and just

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Speaker 1: love you guys so much. I'll be at your disposal.

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Speaker 1: I want to help you out. This is how I

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Speaker 1: can help out. And I don't know, I'm thinking about this.

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Speaker 1: You know, this person there in your life. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not one of these people that ever handed my kids

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Speaker 1: off to total strangers. It's just it's not my gig. Man,

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Speaker 1: I don't do that. It's the most precious thing I have.

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Speaker 1: And so if you have somebody that's going to appear

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Speaker 1: and it's going to offer the service to you, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great just to go out and just breathe,

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Speaker 1: Just be a couple, Maybe get a cup of coffee,

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Speaker 1: glass of wine, just relax and maybe for a moment,

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Speaker 1: reflect upon everything that you've just come through. Imagine this,

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Speaker 1: you know, leading up to a berth and then six

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Speaker 1: weeks down range from the birth, you know, just to

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Speaker 1: take a deep preak. Who would ever think that when

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Speaker 1: you're walking out the door, this is the last time

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Speaker 1: that your little family's going to be completely intact, these

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Speaker 1: precious little angels. I don't know. There's no way I

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Speaker 1: would ever fault to parents in this. No.

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Speaker 2: First, he's not a child, Joe. She's thirty years old.

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Speaker 2: She's a fifth year PhD student you see San Diego. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's not a child. She is an adult woman offering

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Speaker 2: to help you when you need help at a wonderful time.

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Speaker 2: The kids are six weeks old. That and it's just again,

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Speaker 2: I'm not faulting the parents at all. But Nicole Versey. Actually,

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Speaker 2: when I looked at this, Joe, and I think I

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Speaker 2: said this to you, it seems to me she had

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Speaker 2: a plan because Airy Cats suffers injuries to his groin area.

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Speaker 2: He's got scratches on his face that Nicole Versey claims

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Speaker 2: were from getting him in and out of the car,

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Speaker 2: that you know, he scratched himself or whatever. None of

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Speaker 2: this makes sense for a six week old that I

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Speaker 2: can remember. And I think, well, it's been a long

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Speaker 2: time since I've been around a baby that young. But

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Speaker 2: I don't remember it six weeks old them even be

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Speaker 2: able to hold their head up yet.

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Speaker 1: No, No, they're weakest, you know, just weak as like

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Speaker 1: little newborn kittens. And and here's something with with ariy

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Speaker 1: Ari Mari, Yeah, correct, I'm not really sure, but uh,

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Speaker 1: with this little angel, I'm thinking, let's take a look

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Speaker 1: at these injuries that they that are that are being

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Speaker 1: stated right now the medical examiner has related to the public.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, Well, I was gonna say, Ari is the

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Speaker 2: the first child. That was kind of like the way

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Speaker 2: to get both parents out of the house with that

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Speaker 2: child so that Nicole would have just one child, Leon

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Speaker 2: to focus on. Because look at the injuries to Ari.

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Speaker 2: She had to take a picture of these injuries and

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Speaker 2: send it to the parents. They're out doing whatever, and

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Speaker 2: so she sends a picture and it has blood in

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Speaker 2: the diaper. It shows that the penis is swollen, and

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Speaker 2: those injuries to the groin area, and she's, you know,

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Speaker 2: taking a picture, saying, hey, y'all need to get this

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Speaker 2: looked at. Something's going on here. And so they do.

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Speaker 2: They come home and they get Ari and they go

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Speaker 2: to the hospital and leave Nicole alone with Leon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but how do you assess that. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you're in your if you're in parental survival mode, the

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Speaker 1: first thing you want to do, if this has been

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Speaker 1: brought to your attention, as obviously was with Ari, you're thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got to get my child treated. I've got to

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Speaker 1: explain this. And if you're a new parent and I

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Speaker 1: you know, I can reflect back and think about the

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Speaker 1: first time that my children were injured in any way,

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Speaker 1: and you think the world is going to come to

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Speaker 1: an end, how much more so with a six week old.

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Speaker 1: And this is serious, true, Am Dave. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is very serious because I got to tell you the

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Speaker 1: way they've outlined this with Ari. Okay, they've stated that,

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Speaker 1: as you had mentioned, she had sent this picture of

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Speaker 1: the of the diaper and it contained blood. Well, hell yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's going to contain blood because his penis is swollen,

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Speaker 1: and I would assume that there were there was probably

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Speaker 1: some type of internal damage, maybe to the bladder, I'm

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Speaker 1: not really sure, or to the urethra perhaps. You know,

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Speaker 1: little babies, their penises don't just kind of traumatically begin

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Speaker 1: to swell like this without some kind of force acting

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Speaker 1: upon it. And then you've got him avoiding blood into

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Speaker 1: his diaper. Here's another thing that is really if this

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Speaker 1: couldn't get any more troubling with Ari, Dave, he's got

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Speaker 1: he's got bruises inferior to his belly button. Okay, now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so inferior the way we when when we observe okay,

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Speaker 1: in uh, in medical legal death investigation, we talk uh

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Speaker 1: inferior as opposed to superior. So superior if you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the navel, the belly button, so anything above, and

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Speaker 1: you have to have an anatomical point of reference. This

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Speaker 1: is one of the things that we do in forensics

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Speaker 1: is that because what we're stating by talking about these things,

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Speaker 1: you have to have an anatomical orientation in in order

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Speaker 1: if this is going to move forward in a case

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Speaker 1: so that the jury can understand it, and it opens

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Speaker 1: the door for a forensic pathologist on the on the

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Speaker 1: on the stand to say, okay, so we're going to

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Speaker 1: say this anatomical landmark, the navel, the belly button, the

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Speaker 1: unbel like us, if you will, that is anything above

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Speaker 1: that is superior. Okay, but that's still going to be

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Speaker 1: like inferior to say the stern them okay, but it

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Speaker 1: is that point of reference that the belly button. These

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Speaker 1: injuries are inferior that this baby sustained and it is

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Speaker 1: it looks to be, at least from what they are saying.

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Speaker 1: They're calling it bruises. But you have to think about this,

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Speaker 1: this is a contusion. Well, how do we get contusions? Dave? Well,

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Speaker 1: that most of the time is going to rise out

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Speaker 1: of a direct impact. Brother, So you just don't get

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Speaker 1: a random bruise. And if it's I'm curious to know

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Speaker 1: if there are multiple bruises, and so this is the

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Speaker 1: way it works. If you have multiple bruises, all right,

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Speaker 1: most of the time those are going to be indicative

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Speaker 1: of multiple impacts. Okay, so if you have if you

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Speaker 1: have like one bruise singularly, that could be evidence of

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Speaker 1: maybe fall you strike an object. And I've had people

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Speaker 1: do this, you know, they fall from a height or

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Speaker 1: maybe down a staircase, and I'll have abdominal bruising. But

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to bruise the abdomen. You don't get

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Speaker 1: it a lot unless it is. You see it a

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Speaker 1: lot in car accidents. Because think about this just for

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Speaker 1: a second, everybody at home, just kind of think about this.

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Speaker 1: When you know that an impact is coming. One of

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Speaker 1: the things you do with your body is you kind

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Speaker 1: of contract, you kind of roll over or roll forward

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Speaker 1: to have a to have an exposed abdomen you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that would make sense with a baby.

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Speaker 1: They're completely exposed. They don't have those reactive impulses like

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Speaker 1: we do as adults. So you've got this thing that

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Speaker 1: is inferior below the belly button. Well, what's the dynamic

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Speaker 1: going on here? How do you how do you generate

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Speaker 1: that kind of insult to the body of a six

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Speaker 1: week old? Well, to me, I would look for nothing

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Speaker 1: is off the table. First off, I'm going to see

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Speaker 1: if there's any kind of associated abrasion overlying the so

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Speaker 1: called bruising or contusion. And what that could be indicative

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Speaker 1: of is that an instrument was used and it creates

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Speaker 1: this kind of friction on the skin. Okay, it can

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Speaker 1: be straight, it kind of in leads little lines, or

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Speaker 1: it can if the object that it's being used has

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Speaker 1: a rough surface on it, it'll slightly abraid or tear

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Speaker 1: the skin superficially, and then there'll be an underlying impact

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Speaker 1: area that generates the hemorrhage. Or if you're just talking

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Speaker 1: about a punch like this, you're generally not going to

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Speaker 1: get an abrasion with that. You'll just have this concurrent

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Speaker 1: bruise that happens as a result of those little vests

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Speaker 1: being broken beneath this. So if you've got a bruise

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Speaker 1: that is presenting, now just follow my logic here. If

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Speaker 1: you've got a bruise that is presenting on the lower

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Speaker 1: abdomen below inferior like we talked about to the belly button, David,

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Speaker 1: I'm really wondering were there any bowel injuries to this child?

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Speaker 1: You know, is there like a communicating contusion area of

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Speaker 1: hemorrhage in this little angel's you know, underlying bowel. I've

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Speaker 1: seen this happen and you get these little tears, you know,

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Speaker 1: and all these little vessels that are in actually in

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Speaker 1: you know, in the bowel, and chalk can bleed out.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes this so so horrible. That's you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is really stood out to me. I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: that we're going to be able to understand this dynamic

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Speaker 1: and maybe a description of these even more so, you know,

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Speaker 1: going going down range with this case just just simply

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Speaker 1: based upon the injuries that already sustained and the scratches

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Speaker 1: on the face. I think you and I when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about doing this case, and I'm so grateful

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Speaker 1: you brought this to my attention because I've been following

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Speaker 1: other things, but I hadn't paid this close attention to

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Speaker 1: this case. I know that it was in the news,

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Speaker 1: but when you began to lay this out to me,

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Speaker 1: brother Dave and I started hearing about this, I just

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Speaker 1: knew that we had to do it. And we were

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Speaker 1: talking yesterday about babies scratching themselves. And after we had

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Speaker 1: that conversation, I began to think about my kids. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember the I know that particularly mama's out there

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Speaker 1: are going to remember this or know this. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember those little mittens you would put on a child's hand,

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Speaker 1: and they've got those sharp little nails, you know, those

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Speaker 1: little fingernails are sharp. And one of the reasons you

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Speaker 1: put those on their hands was because they can't scratch.

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Speaker 1: You know, they'll scratch their face, you know, because they're

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Speaker 1: exploring in their body and all that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 1: so they put these little mittens. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: this child would have necessarily scratched her on face. And

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Speaker 1: how many of these scratches are there, and is there

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Speaker 1: a pattern to them? Because I gotta tell you, is

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Speaker 1: the child being roughed up in any way? Are they

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Speaker 1: being Is there some kind of surface they're being pressed

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Speaker 1: down on to degenerate a scratch? And when you say scratch,

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Speaker 1: most of the time that implies person to person contact.

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Speaker 1: Now you can get scratched by you know, a limb,

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Speaker 1: a thorn, you know. But they're describing these as scratches,

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Speaker 1: not abrasions. Abrasion happens generally with an object or you're

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Speaker 1: meeting a surface like a carpet or something, you'll get

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Speaker 1: an upbraided area. You know, you and I used to

380
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Speaker 1: be athletes years and ago. You played baseball, you slid

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Speaker 1: into and how many times I can only imagine how

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Speaker 1: many times in your life you've had an upbraided area, Strawberry,

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Speaker 1: if you will, you know certain. And that's because you're

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Speaker 1: making this contact. That's not what they're saying, Todave. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: this is a scratch. How do you generate this scratch

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Speaker 1: on this on the six week old. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: the dynamic that's going on here. I'm thinking about there's

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Speaker 1: somebody that is the quote unquote caretaker of these two

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Speaker 1: precious little souls. How long When did it start? Did

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Speaker 1: it start when mom and dad exited the house? How

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Speaker 1: long had she been with them? Because Tom is everything here,

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Speaker 1: we have to understand the timeline and we have to

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00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: understand all of these injuries and their dynamics which eventually

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Speaker 1: led to the death of Ari's brother Leon. H They

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Speaker 1: We we've talked about Ari Katz, about these injuries that

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Speaker 1: wound up essentially getting this child to treatment at the

397
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: hands of the parents. You know, they're alerted there, there's

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Speaker 1: evidence that you know, something has occurred. Most of it

399
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: is below you know, below the waist, but that that

400
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: leaves Leon. They Ari was extricated from that home and

401
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: Leon is left with Verse Nicole Versey, the PhD student, Uh,

402
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: what can you break this down for me? You know Ari,

403
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Speaker 1: they've taken Ari away.

404
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: Well, you know when you and I were talking about this,

405
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Speaker 2: I was at that point of she being Nicole VERSI

406
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Speaker 2: Joe found a way to get Leon alone. I mean,

407
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 2: think about it for just a minute. You were when

408
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: you were describing the bruising on Ari a few minutes ago.

409
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: I hadn't thought about all that. I mean because I

410
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: was focused on the death of Leon, cap I wasn't.

411
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Speaker 2: But the injuries to Ari are substantial enough that they

412
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Speaker 2: go to the hospital, and we could do a whole

413
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Speaker 2: episode on children abuse and how they're dealt with at

414
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: the hospital, and we actually need to because I have

415
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: a question about what they would have done at the

416
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: hospital with Ari. But for the sake of this program, today,

417
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: Aria is at the hospital with the parents. They're both

418
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: concerned about him. Dave left Leon at home alone with

419
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Speaker 2: Nicole Versey, and all of this is a led. She

420
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: has pled not guilty, said she didn't do anything. In

421
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: her story is that she fell asleep on the couch.

422
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Speaker 2: She woke up. Leon was in his little bouncy seat

423
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Speaker 2: and he was hungry for milk, so she went to

424
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: the kitchen to get some milk, and when she returned

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Speaker 2: she heard a thud while she was in the kitchen

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Speaker 2: and then him crying, and when she came in, he

427
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: was on the floor laying on his side. Leon's injuries,

428
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: the injuries to his head, I said plural, because it

429
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: wasn't just one thump on the head, and Leon suffered

430
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: and is laying on his left side, the left side

431
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: of his head has been damaged. I don't know how

432
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: far to go with that, because Joe, there's so much

433
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: else in there that I couldn't figure out because I

434
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: always thought, I know, baby's head, you have to be

435
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: extra careful with they have the big soft spot, you know,

436
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: And that always terrified me. It even does now.

437
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: It still does.

438
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: Because holding a baby, even though I've had all my children, Dude,

439
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: that's still the scariest thing in the world. We got

440
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: the soft spot on the top of their head, that

441
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: the brain's right there. You've got to be really careful.

442
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking of six week old Leon Katz in

443
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: the care of Nicole Versey, and she claims he fell

444
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: out of a bouncy seat. Detective said it was in

445
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: eighteen inches at the highest point of the bouncy seat,

446
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: eighteen inches to the floor. And there's no way this

447
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: child could have been damaged in this eighteen inches that

448
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: there is so how in the world could it be

449
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: possible for leon Katz to end up with the injuries

450
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: that he suffered.

451
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: Joe, let's go back. I'm very glad that you brought

452
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: up this idea of the soft spot and you've got

453
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: did you know that there are multiple so called soft

454
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: spots that are actually referred to as font and eils

455
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: and so as what font andelles and so you have

456
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: and what they are. What they are are points of

457
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: attachment for the plates of the skull, all right, So

458
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: you you have something that occurs that's actually suture suture

459
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: fusion that goes on with a skull. So if you've

460
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: ever just if people will just envision, you know, like

461
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: Halloween for instance, they do these renderings of skeletons, okay,

462
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: and you'll see a skull and uh, you know, uh,

463
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: you walk into one of these stores and wherever they're

464
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: selling skulls, they will do some kind of facsimile of

465
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: a suture line on a skull. If you look at it,

466
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: it's these kind of wavy lines and they run everywhere.

467
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: And you've got these major bones. You've got the frontal bone,

468
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: which is like your forehead, and then you've got the

469
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: parietal some people call parieteal that is lateral and it's

470
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: it's up okay, and it's it's pretty thick, but you

471
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: get that. And you've got the temporal areas, and you

472
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: know they talk about that's like the most delicate area

473
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: of the brain. And you go posterior in the back

474
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: of the head, you've got what's referred to as the occiput,

475
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: and it's that kind of there's like a bony prominence

476
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: that everybody can feel if you will just reach around

477
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: the back of your skull. There's not on the back

478
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: of your head, and that's that's the bony prominence that's

479
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: referred to as uh as as the occiput. And during developmentally,

480
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: when a baby is developing in mommy's tummy, their skull

481
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: is very malleable. And there's a couple of reasons for that.

482
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: First off, there's there's kind of a this idea that

483
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: women have this this tough thing that they have to do,

484
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: and that is, if it's a vaginal delivery, read this

485
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: child along with the head has got to pass through

486
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: the birth canal. Well, you cannot have a rigid skull

487
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: like you know mine is right now, a grown, a

488
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: grown person's skull that can pass through a birth canal,

489
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: because you know, we've had time over the year's day

490
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: for our skulls to ossify essentially, and they become rigid.

491
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: They become almost like a helmet, if you will. I

492
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: always compare them. And when you see them in the morgue.

493
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: They almost have a turtle turtleshell appearance to them. For

494
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: good reason. They offer protection for babies though, and this

495
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: is one of the things when we talk about Leon's injuries,

496
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: they're talking about fractures day. Okay, it's one thing if

497
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: a child is six years old, because by the time

498
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: they've hit six, generally it's around I'm going to get

499
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: this wrong. I have to reflect back of my memory.

500
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: By the time a child is about three, I think

501
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: these fontinelles, and there's multiple of them. You have one

502
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: the most prominent one is anterior, so it's on the front,

503
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: not all the way on the front, but it's where

504
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: the frontal bone and the parietal bones, you know, come together,

505
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: and you've got that real soft spot and it's very tender.

506
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's when you see it, it has a

507
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: membrane like appearance. It's a bit thicker than that. Then

508
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: you have them that are lateral as well, on both sides,

509
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: and then there's a posterior one on the back side.

510
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: Now these are smaller than the one on the front,

511
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: So one on the front people commonly think of, well,

512
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: they haven't had a chance to OSPHI and on any level.

513
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: So the bones aren't firm, they're just merely these kind

514
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: of plates that almost when you touch them, they almost

515
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 1: have more like a cartilaginous feel to them. Well, Dave,

516
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: they're like that, what do we know about development? Developing? Children?

517
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: They fall? They fall, buddy, They fall when they're trying

518
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: to walk or cruise, you know, where they're walking along

519
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: or or just you know, just crawling. When you get

520
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: a child that's that's like that, the skull is still

521
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: very malleable so that it won't fracture. Okay, the fact

522
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: that we're talking about Leon here, Leon Katz, and he

523
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: has got a fracture, a fracture day to a skull.

524
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: This is this. In order for a child, a six

525
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: week old child, to sustain a skull fracture, you're talking

526
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: about relative to the child, you're talking about a very

527
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: significant amount of force that would have to be applied

528
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: to this bony feature. And it's not really you know,

529
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: when we think of bony, you know, you think bony

530
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: hard rigidity. It ain't like that dude in the you know,

531
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: in the Morgan. I don't want to be too grotesque here,

532
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: but I mean this is body bags. You know, when

533
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: we when we have to do autopsies on babies, we

534
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: we don't use sauce. You can actually open the skull

535
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: with a pair of scissors. That's how that's how soft

536
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: they are. So the fact that Leon has this fracture

537
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: that they're calling here, and also they're talking about multiple day,

538
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: they're talking about multiple areas of hemorrhage within the brain. Brother,

539
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, there's a lot going on here.

540
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if if this is a single impact or

541
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: if there are multiple impacts here. This can be evidenced

542
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: on the exterior scalp. You know you're gonna be able

543
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: to see. I would imagine there would have been refreshed

544
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: my memory. Again. You said that Leon was found his

545
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: head was contacting the left, left side, right right, according

546
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: according to Versy. Correct.

547
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: Again, everything we have is according to her. And that's

548
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: the part that kind of bothers me about when we're

549
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: talking about it, because we only have her version of

550
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: events at this point. And she claims that she heard

551
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 2: the thudd. You know, he was crying and then heard

552
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: the thud, and she came in and he was laying

553
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: on his left side, and the damage to his his

554
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: skull was on the left side. None of this makes

555
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: sense to me. I know what you do in caring

556
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: for a child when we're talking about the soft spot

557
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: on top of the head. I'm telling you, even now

558
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: I get chill marked because I remember being so afraid

559
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: and being told by the doctor. Look that the head

560
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: is very soft and it takes time to heal, and

561
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: it's a long time before it actually becomes the skull

562
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: that we know. And her version of events does you know,

563
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: not make any kind of sense for a six week

564
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: old baby at all.

565
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't. Let me also frame this out, Dave, Now

566
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: there we could you know, literally, I've got friends that

567
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: teach physics at Jacksonville State. We could give them the

568
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: parameters for this. We could talk about we could talk

569
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: about the weight of a baby. We could talk about

570
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: the height of a fall and do this myriad of calculations.

571
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: And they have done this before. What type of height

572
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: would a child with these anatomical features at this particular

573
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: time in their development? What type of height would you

574
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 1: have to fall from in order to generate this kind

575
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: of energy? And this is a car accident reconstruction all

576
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 1: of the time. And David, it's rather listen to me here,

577
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: it's more than eighteen inches, and that's top end, Okay,

578
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: if the seed is configured in the manner in which

579
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: you're thinking, I think that even I think that even

580
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: if this child or a child at this stage, was

581
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: on a kitchen counter and they fell from that height,

582
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: and I think everybody, that's something you can kind of

583
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: get your mind around. I don't know what is that

584
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: is that like thirty six inches, I'm not really sure,

585
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: and they vary from place to place. And the surface

586
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: also has a lot to do with it. You know,

587
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: are you falling onto a hardwood surface, onto a ceramic

588
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: surface or carpeted surface. We don't know. That's going to

589
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: have a lot to do with it as well. But

590
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: eighteen inches ain't getting it, man. I'm just telling you,

591
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm an investigator in a case like this,

592
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a lot more questions. I mean,

593
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: I will have so many questions that it would take

594
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: days and days to answer them all because none of

595
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: this is making sense to me with the explanation we've

596
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: been provided with.

597
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: When she called nine one one, yeah, she actually told

598
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: them the baby fell out of a bacinette Now, the

599
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: reason I point that out is because most of us

600
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 2: know if a story changes, Yep, it's because they're lying.

601
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: The story doesn't change when you're telling the truth, because

602
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: the truth is the truth. A lie has to change

603
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: to fit current circumstances. And she has already talked to

604
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: Ethan Katz, the father before she calls nine one one,

605
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 2: and so she's told him something. And then she calls

606
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: nine one one, tells them bascinette, and then when the

607
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 2: police get there, it was out of the bouncy seat,

608
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: which they measured highest limit was eighteen inches And no

609
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 2: way possible to create these types of injuries to this

610
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 2: six week old baby from that hype. Even if her

611
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: story were to be true, it doesn't match the injuries.

612
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 2: And the other part of this show that really got

613
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: to me was when this PhD student that Daily Mail

614
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: calls glamorous, she actually arrives back at her apartment. Okay,

615
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 2: mom and dad are at the hospital with their children,

616
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: with the babies. That again, Nicole Bercy came there specifically

617
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: to help them care for these six week old twins,

618
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: and now both children are in the hospital. Remember all

619
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: the time that we're dealing with Leon here Ari is

620
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: still in the hospital being examined to figure out how

621
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: he ended up with his injuries while Nicole was watching him.

622
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 2: So now these parents, Ethan and Savannah Roberts, are at

623
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: the hospital. They now have both of their children there.

624
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: Nicole Percy is not there with them. Now, an innocent

625
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: person who did nothing wrong would be at the hospital.

626
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 2: I would think just being there. I love you, I'm

627
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: here for you. I don't you know this happened on

628
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: her watch.

629
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: No.

630
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 2: She gets back to her apartment around one thirty in

631
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: the morning, the apartment she had planned on staying in

632
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: for another couple of days, packs her stuff and is

633
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: headed out the door. This is all captured on security

634
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 2: cameras Holy at five point forty five the next morning. Joe,

635
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: she's outside, she's got her bags packed, she's on the phone.

636
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: Police arrive.

637
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: This is before leon Katz is pronounced dead at the hospital.

638
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 2: Police are there and they arrest her. Have you ever

639
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: seen anything like that, Joe?

640
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: No, I never have. That's why this case is. It's

641
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: absolutely banana and it's sickening. And here's something else, Dave.

642
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: You know, going back to my earlier opening comments about

643
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: the last time the death penalty was actually followed through

644
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: with in Pennsylvania from all councils of a lethal injection.

645
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: I think it was nineteen ninety nine. Okay, they have it.

646
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,959
Speaker 1: This is if you can read between the lines, all right,

647
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: if you can read between the lines, when the Allegheny

648
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: County prosecutor, Now this is a statement that they have made,

649
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: and this is not going to be verbatim, but we're

650
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: talking about something, Dave, that has just happened. They know something,

651
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: they have seen something, because the DA's office in Alligated

652
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: County came out and said, we are seeking now hear

653
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: me right, we are seeking the death penalty in this case.

654
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: And when you hear that, and they they've they've they're

655
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: they're also throwing the word torture around and if that

656
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: doesn't send a chill up your spine, I don't know

657
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: what will. And in addition to this, you know, politicians

658
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: say things for a variety of reasons, obviously, but when

659
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: you've got an elected official like the chief prosecutor for

660
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: Alligating County, which is where Pittsburgh is, and now you

661
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: kick it up to another level where the governor of

662
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: the state is now saying that he's going to sign

663
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: off on the death penalty on this. You put it

664
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: before me, I'll sign anything you want me to sign

665
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: to make sure that this has followed through with. There's

666
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: a lot more to be revealed, and I I promise

667
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: you this, my friends, my friend Dave McK and I,

668
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: we will be revisiting this case because more information is

669
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: going to come out, and when it does, I don't

670
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: know how we're gonna be able to take the measure

671
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: of it. But we're going to sally forth and talk

672
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 1: about this because two little babies, and trust me, these

673
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: are precious, little fragile babies, have been horribly assaulted and one,

674
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: it appears, has been murdered. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and

675
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: this is bodybags