1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Erica. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: I'm happy to say that right now, we're working on 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: season three of The Turning. We think you'll love it. 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: It's another look into an insular community and we talk 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: with people who are rarely heard from. In the meantime, 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: we have something special for you. I want to tell 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: you about a new book. It's called The Swans of Harlem. 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Five Black Ballerinas, fifty years of sisterhood and their reclamation 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: of a groundbreaking history. In the book, writer Karen Valbi 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: records the largely forgotten stories of five black ballerinas who 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: changed the art form. Their stories are surprising and vivid 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: and poignant and totally worth your time if you enjoyed 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: our most recent season of The Turning. So I'm going 14 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: to turn it over to Karen for two episodes in 15 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 2: sort of a mini series for interviews with two dancers. 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: At the heart of her book, The Swans of Harlem Today, 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: Karen talks to former prima ballerina Lydia Abarka. 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: Long before Misty Copeland became a ballet sensation, there was 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: Lydia Ebarka. Lydia was the first black prima ballerina, the 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: first black ballerina in a company to appear on the 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: cover of Dance magazine and the first black woman to 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: dance Swan Lake. She became the face of Dance Theater 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: of Haarlem alongside Arthur Mitchell, her whole life enduring a 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: complicated relationship with dance. Despite appearing in The Whiz and 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: in Bob Fossey's Dancing on Broadway, she would be forgotten 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: by history. Nobody deserves a third act like her. Hi Lydia, Hi, 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: Karen Lydia. I want to begin with you telling me 28 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: about where you grew up. 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 3: I grew up in Harlem on on twenty fifth Street, 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 3: right off Broadway, in the Grant Housing projects with my 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 3: six siblings, five sisters, one brother, and just had a 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 3: really great childhood. We didn't want for anything. Of course, 33 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 3: we didn't have a lot, but we had what we 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: needed and we had our parents, loving parents. My mom 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 3: was just amazing. I mean, with so many kids, she 36 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 3: could find programs that we could participate in. We all 37 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: went to summer camp, sleep away Christmas parties. My dad 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 3: was a very hard working Puerto Rican man and he 39 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: didn't speak Spanish at home. That's my only regret. You know, 40 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 3: my mom knew Spanish, but once he got into the 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 3: house and married and he just wanted to speak English, 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: so we missed out on that opportunity. But he was 43 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: hard working, two jobs, strict, so he was a good 44 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: preparation for Arthur Mitchell. 45 00:02:54,919 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: Some kids just come out bound for the spotlight. You 46 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: were one of those kids that just knew you wanted 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: to be a star from a very young age. Can 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: you share what being a star meant to you. 49 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: I grew up with Motown, the Jackson Five, the Supremes, 50 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: the Temptations, Ginger Rogers and Fred Asteer. They were stars. 51 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: That's kind of what I aspired to. But my two 52 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 3: loves were reading and dancing. So if I wasn't in 53 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: a book, if music came on, I was just strolling 54 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: around the house. I just loved music and I just 55 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: love to move. That was my life. 56 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that first time you actually performed. 57 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: My first performance was in fourth grade. I went to 58 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 3: Catholic school. The nun who was my teacher choreographed Walts 59 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: of the Flowers. I had never heard music like that. 60 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: I loved it, and I don't know whatever the choreography was. 61 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: That was my first time learning choreography. I must have 62 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: been like a nut up there on stage because I 63 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: was in heaven. And after the performance, she told my mother, 64 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: you need to get her formal training. My mom and 65 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 3: I are looking at each other like what does that mean? 66 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: But Julliard was right down the street on Broadway. There 67 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: used to be one hund twenty third and Cleremont, which 68 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: is walking distance, and she was able too get me 69 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 3: an audition. The audition was this pianist in this room 70 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 3: with chandeliers and mirrors, and he started playing and the 71 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 3: love of music just took over. I had no fear 72 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 3: and I did my big finale, which was a split. 73 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: Nobody in my family could do a split. And the 74 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: next thing I know, I got a full scholarship. So 75 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: I went every Saturday. I my first class. Yuck. I 76 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 3: was told to go over to the wall and hold 77 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: onto this wooden thing on the wall and bend my knees. Okay, 78 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 3: when are we going to dance? I did that for 79 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: four years every Saturday. I did plias and releve's and 80 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: advanced point shoes. That was fun after the first few 81 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: painful lessons. But there wasn't any dancing. It was technique 82 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 3: and it was it was not what I saw on TV. 83 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: I had never seen a. 84 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: Ballet in all of that time. 85 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 3: You never know, unless you want to count Funny Girl 86 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: with Barbara Streisan. You know, she made fun of Swan 87 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: Lake the ballet. I did it because something inside of 88 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: me knew that it was correct. But after six years 89 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: you just kind of get like, well, I'm not having 90 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: fun with ballet. I don't get it. 91 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: During these pivotal training years, are you looking up to 92 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: any ballerinas? Are you being told you could be a ballerina? 93 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 3: No? No, that's the disconnect. You know, you go on 94 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: your toes. I was doing that, So am I a ballerina? 95 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: You know, nobody said, okay, this is the company, come 96 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: watch a rehearsal. You know, if you went by the 97 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: door and they were doing something, usually you were told, 98 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 3: you know, shoot away, you know, don't stand there. So 99 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: they probably assumed that I knew that I knew what 100 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 3: I was working towards. I did not. 101 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: At what point, as a teenager do you decide I'm 102 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: not doing this anymore. I'm not going to spend my 103 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: weekends at the bar. I have dreams outside of this studio, 104 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: and the studio isn't getting me closer to them. 105 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 3: I quit the last two years of high school that 106 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 3: was my junior and senior year, and just concentrated on 107 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: trying to go to college. My parents were really excited 108 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: about me doing that. I got a partial scholarship to 109 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: Fordham University. But that summer I was working at a 110 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: bank to save up some money towards the tuition. And 111 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 3: one of my sisters was studying violin at the Harlem 112 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: school Yards and she says, Lydia, there's this black guy 113 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: there and he's doing something with ballet. You know. I'm 114 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: saying to myself, well, I never had a black ballet teacher. 115 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: Maybe he's going to make this really more interesting relatable. 116 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: Help me please. Six years of training, I needed to 117 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 3: know was there something that I was missing? Obviously, So 118 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: when I went it wasn't for classes. He was starting 119 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: a company. He wanted to see my feet. I knew 120 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: I had nice feet. I told him I had training, 121 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: I had been on point, I had stopped dancing two 122 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 3: years ago. And he said he'd pay me one hundred 123 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: and fifty dollars if I would quit my job at 124 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: the bank and come be in his company. And again 125 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: I said, okay, Ballet Company. I guess we're going to 126 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: do Swan Lake. I don't know, but I was so excited. 127 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: He was so dynamic, So I quit the bank and 128 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: oh my goodness, oh wow. Yeah. 129 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: Had you heard of Arthur Mitchell before? 130 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: Nope? 131 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: So you put your leotard back on, You get yourself 132 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: down to this church basement where he's hosting these auditions. 133 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: What was it like to walk into a room with 134 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: other classically trained black dancers in it? Had you ever 135 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: conceived of a world like this before? 136 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. And it didn't matter that it wasn't with 137 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 3: the chandeliers and the glass mirrors everywhere. There was just 138 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: such a feeling of camaraderie. Hearing the others talk about 139 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 3: how they had tried to get into these companies and 140 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: were rejected because of their skin color. It was a 141 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: total awakening for me. And just meeting other dancers who 142 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 3: loved ballet. You know what was I missing? What was 143 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 3: it about the ballet that you loved? But working with 144 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: Arthur showed me it was a wonderful world. Arthur Mitchell 145 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: took me to my first ballet performance, and that was 146 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: at New York City Ballet, which I had never heard of. 147 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: Them either. Wow, And he was so dynamic on stage. 148 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 3: He was doing a Midsummer Night's Dream I'll never forget, 149 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: which is you know, he's like a little I don't 150 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 3: want to say troublemaker. I'm not really sure the story 151 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 3: right now, but at one point he realized he's made 152 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: a mistake and he just kind of dropped his arms 153 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: and his facade and was so street and it was lovable, 154 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: and I said, oh my god, ballet doesn't have to 155 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 3: be this crazy, fiery stuff. And I got to see 156 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 3: the rest of the company do ballets. I saw what 157 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 3: a ballerina does a lead ballerina, Oh, unbelievable. 158 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: So at this point your whole sense of what ballet 159 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: can be has completely changed from those narrow studios Saturday mornings. Yes, 160 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: does it start feeling, especially with the zeal mister Mitchell 161 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: was bringing to the mission all these years of ballet. 162 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: Maybe ballet is going to make me a star. 163 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: It was an avenue because I really I thought maybe 164 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: dancing wasn't it. But I guess all the stars and 165 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 3: the planets were aligned, and it just started to make sense. 166 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: And I was good at it, and for him, I 167 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: was a clean slate. I had no preconceived ideas of 168 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: what I should be doing or how I should be acting. 169 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 3: He had Clay with me and he was molding me, 170 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: and I had to learn how to be a principal dancer. 171 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: It was exciting. It was something I'd come home talk 172 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: to my sisters and they're looking at me like, what 173 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: was an arabesque? You know? And the choreography was was 174 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: I can't say fun at all, but it was challenging 175 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: and exciting and wow. 176 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: At what point do you realize, Wow, mister Mitchell, his 177 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: focus is on the whole company. He is making this, 178 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, a united force that's going to shock the world. 179 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: At what point, though, do you realize I think I 180 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: might be his star here. 181 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 3: I'll be honest. I was so focused on doing what 182 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: he said on the technique, on the presence on stage. 183 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: I know I was getting the leads and almost you know, 184 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 3: all the balancing ballets anyway, but I really felt that 185 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: I deserved that, you know. And I'll be honest, I 186 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: have five sisters, and being around women, you're very conscious 187 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: of the possibility of jealousy. So whatever I was doing, 188 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: it was obviously because Arthur had me doing it, and 189 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: I was not going to go around saying that I'm 190 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 3: the one. I spent my time and energy proving that 191 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: I deserved it. 192 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: What was it like when mister Mitchell started saying, we're 193 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: going to be going around town. We need to be 194 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: meeting the muckety MUCKs for fun raising, and you're going 195 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: to be my plus one. You're this girl from the 196 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: Grand Houses, You're still a teenager and suddenly he's taking 197 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: you all around town. Can you tell us about some 198 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: of those nights out with him? 199 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: That was so fun? Gave me a chance to dress up. 200 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: I love dressing up. I didn't have any money to 201 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 3: buy like really expensive things, but I knew how to 202 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 3: look pretty. And he was so proud of me. You know, 203 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: this is my ballerina, and I knew it was important. 204 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 3: Money was important. He needed that money. This was his dream, 205 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: this was my dream, This was all of our dreams. 206 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 3: And it was just wonderful watching him talk, you know, 207 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 3: And it didn't matter what question they asked him, he 208 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 3: would always be able to turn the conversation around to 209 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: and yes, we need money to do this, And I say, oh, 210 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: look at that. This fundraising tact were incredible. I mean, 211 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 3: I was happy, just watching him. I had nothing to 212 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: contribute to that conversation. Then, oh, yes, thank you, you 213 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: know telling me how nice I dance. Oh, thank you 214 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: so much to know how am I doing? Arthur, I 215 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: didn't want to mess up the fundraising. 216 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: You once told me there was one cocktail party that 217 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: sat poorly with you. Oh yeah, turned you off on 218 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: being Arthur Mitchell's plus one. Can you tell me about 219 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: the evening? 220 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't even remember whose party it was, but 221 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: they put some music on and they wanted me and 222 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: Arthur to dance, and I just, I'll be honest, I 223 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 3: felt like a little organ grinder monkey, you know, let's 224 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 3: see you dance, and that kind of dancing had nothing 225 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 3: to do with what we were doing. We were ballet, 226 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: you know, go down to the corner and watch somebody 227 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 3: dance like that. I that's not what I do. I 228 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: do it at my kind of parties or you know, 229 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: but not when we're trying to raise money. So it, Yeah, 230 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 3: it didn't sit well with me. I really just went 231 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: through the motions, and of course Arthur was just you know, 232 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: Arthur and doing his thing. But that's the first time 233 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: I really felt like, if you want to see us perform, 234 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,479 Speaker 3: buy a ticket and come to the City Center and 235 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: watch us do our thing. But this, I don't know. 236 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 3: Maybe I took it wrong, but I didn't like it. 237 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 3: And I think that's probably around the time that I 238 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 3: stopped going with him, or him not inviting me, it 239 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: was fine with me. 240 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: Did you feel often at these cocktail parties and fundraising 241 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: events would you and Arthur be the only two black 242 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: people in the room? 243 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah. 244 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: Did you ever get a sense that a request like that, 245 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: that a room like that, that the burden of hustling 246 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: for money like that was hard on Arthur too? 247 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know it was. I know it 248 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 3: was to pull us out as if you know, this 249 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: is our special treat for everybody, let's see them. 250 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, at the end of one of your evenings out. 251 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: I know this story is hard for you to talk 252 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: about because you tried to bury it from the moment 253 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: after it happened. Arthur escorted you back into your apartment 254 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: building and in the bright lobby right outside of the elevator, 255 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: he surprised you. Can you share what happened? 256 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: What was that about? All right? It was just one 257 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 3: of those fun nights. It must have been one of 258 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 3: the plays that I did enjoy, and he kissed me 259 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 3: on my lips, and whoa, but it wasn't it wasn't passionate. 260 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I kind of backed up a little bit, 261 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 3: like what what. But to my recollection, I take it 262 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 3: as him saying thank you. I didn't take it that 263 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 3: I love you. None of that. I really to me, 264 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 3: it would have been the same as if he gave 265 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 3: me a really good hug. I don't want to make 266 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 3: more out of it. It's just that it confused me 267 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 3: a little bit because we heard stories from him about 268 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: how balancing, you know, went out with all his ballering 269 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 3: as his principles and then married them and then went 270 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: on to the next thing. I had too much respect 271 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: for the man. What we were doing was too important, 272 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 3: and I was not about to even entertain the thought 273 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: of that kind of relationship. 274 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: He was my boss, and you all never spoke of 275 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: it again. 276 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: You know. 277 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: I have had conversations with people from the company who said, oh, 278 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: he shot his shot. He tried and it was rebuffed, 279 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: and he sort of gracefully moved on. You say it 280 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: was like a good hug, but then shortly after that 281 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: evening you do sort of tumble in to a fast 282 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: relationship with another dancer. In hindsight, you wonder if you 283 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: were putting some visible distance between you and mister Mitchell. 284 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: Can you say why you think it might have been 285 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: important for you to align with somebody else? 286 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 3: You know, I'll be honest, I didn't think of it 287 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 3: that way at the time, but Karen, when you started 288 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: interviewing us for the book and we started talking about it, 289 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: I was like, wait a minute, maybe maybe there's something 290 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 3: to that thought that subconsciously I was making sure that 291 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: everyone knew I didn't want that. I didn't want that doubt. 292 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 3: She's just you know, none of that, please, Oh my god, no. 293 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: None of that. 294 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 3: What innuendo, that innuendo that I was being treated specially 295 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: because of favors or something like that. And no, no, no, 296 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 3: no no. I was working too hard. This was too important. 297 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: He had totally convinced me we were world ambassadors and 298 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: pioneers and all that, and so I guess, looking back, 299 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 3: and you forcing me to look back at that during 300 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: the interviews for the book, I really started thinking about 301 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 3: how maybe others might have been looking at our relationship 302 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: and it was important to me to just let them 303 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 3: know I'm out here with you, guys. I'm doing the 304 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: same thing you are. 305 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: Talk to me about the rocket ship that was Dance 306 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: Theater of Harlem. Suddenly, in record time you all have 307 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: exploded onto the scene. When did you feel like he's 308 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: done it? We are listen to these audiences go nuts 309 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: for us. When did it start feeling like success? 310 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 3: I think it's when we started doing our New York 311 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 3: seasons because up to then we had done a lot 312 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: of traveling by bus, ugh getting up in the morning demonstrations, 313 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: like at eight o'clock in the morning, we had just 314 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 3: been on a bus for ten hours or something. We 315 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: were pretty much dancing for people that looked like us, 316 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 3: and so it was kind of expected. But when we 317 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: got to City sent you know, with the live orchestra 318 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: and the curtain going up and then the applause afterwards, 319 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 3: That's that's when it was validated for me. Yeah. 320 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Are you starting to feel like I made it? 321 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: I've made my dreams come true? Was life off stage 322 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: becoming more glamorous? 323 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 3: Are you. 324 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: Rolling in money? 325 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: Oh? Heck no no. And you know, but back then 326 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 3: in Haarlem you could get a really nice apartment for 327 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 3: three point fifty a month. You know, I had one apartment, 328 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: had four bedrooms, a little kitchen, maid's room off the 329 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 3: kitchen with its own bathroom. I mean, they just don't 330 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: have that anymore. But I could never ever afford a 331 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 3: place by myself ever, And so that was okay. I've 332 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 3: got plenty of sisters that took turns rooming with me. 333 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 3: But the money never changed. I mean, the money at 334 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 3: one fifty went up to two fifty, you know, but 335 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: I don't even know how I was able to buy 336 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: nice clothes, you know, to make sure that we were presentable. 337 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 3: But you know, at one point, I was like, okay, 338 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 3: when when does this start kind of paying off, so 339 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: that you know, my parents can get out of the 340 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 3: projects or something that I could help somebody, just help 341 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 3: my one of my sisters, or brought my brother go 342 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 3: to college. It wasn't happening. And I know that any 343 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 3: money that we got, any extra money, went to the company. 344 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 3: It was too important for the company to survive, not 345 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 3: me to have more money. 346 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: That sounds hard to know that the mission of Dance 347 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: Theater of Harlem is so vital, and so how do 348 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: you balance your own personal ambition and needs for yourself? 349 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Did you feel like there was room for you to 350 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: hold on to your dreams. 351 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 4: I guess at the time, I wasn't real clear about 352 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 4: what did I want? You know, I was, I was 353 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 4: finally dancing, I was getting reviewsed I was. I was 354 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 4: doing everything I thought I was supposed to do to 355 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 4: be a star wars. 356 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 3: I just wanted to have something to show for it. 357 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 3: I have nothing to show for any of that. I 358 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 3: had some pictures, newspaper articles. 359 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 5: I wanted to reward my parents for everything they did. 360 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 5: I wanted to at least do a down payment on 361 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 5: the house. Come on, we lived in the projects. Dad 362 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 5: worked two jobs. They loved us so much, and I 363 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 5: just that was a focus and it didn't. 364 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 3: Happen, you know what I mean. So my parents went 365 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 3: and got a house on their own. I never helped 366 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: with that. 367 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: You know what strikes me as so sad about this 368 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: Lydia and always has is, for all intents and purposes, 369 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: you were as big a star as a dancer can 370 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: dream of. So it's sad to think of you looking 371 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: back on this storied career with anything other than awe 372 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: and pride. 373 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 3: And I do, but again, I just don't have anything 374 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: else to show for it. The memories are gone. You know, 375 00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 3: there's no taps, there's no nothing, and hopefully it's. 376 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: It's in the book, Lydia. Yeah, your work are in 377 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: the book, and what you have done, you have reclaimed 378 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: your story. You just maybe don't believe it yet. You 379 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: have done this, you have corrected history, and now you 380 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: just have to internalize that correction. You were there. Do 381 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: you think your parents were so proud of your career 382 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: at Dance Theater of Harlem. Did your hard working father 383 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: ever make it to see you in the ballet? 384 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 3: Oh? My gosh, she came. He was working as a 385 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 3: janitor at Brooklyn College, and we did combat and I 386 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 3: die at the end, and my mom said that he 387 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 3: had tears in his eyes, and all he said was 388 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 3: very good mama. 389 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: You know afterwards, imagine seeing your oldest daughter up on 390 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: stage like that and the whole audience on their feet. 391 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: How proud they must have been. Yeah, you do decide 392 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: at a very pivotal time to take a real leap 393 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: of faith and to take a break from Dance Theater 394 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: of Harlem to be a part of a movie, and 395 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: not just any movie. Can you tell a little bit 396 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: about your decision to join the Whiz. 397 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. We were in Chicago and I had done 398 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 3: Tchaikovsky Pototor, a very vigorous ballet, and I sprained my 399 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 3: ankle doing it. Didn't realize it until I went to 400 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 3: put my points you on for the next ballet, and 401 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 3: my foot was so swollen I couldn't get it on. 402 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: So I had to be off for about three weeks. 403 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 3: And in the meantime I heard some of the dancers saying, 404 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 3: you know, Lewis Johnson, who had set a ballet on us, 405 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: was doing this movie, and Gail McKinney was going to 406 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 3: be one of his skeleton crew, and so I got 407 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 3: his number from her and he said, oh absolutely. It 408 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 3: was every black dancer from the city, every black model, 409 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: top models, emon, everyone was going to do this movie. 410 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 3: This was a once in a lifetime event. And so 411 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 3: I never got the disapproval from Arthur until he started 412 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 3: calling the eleven of us who left the Dumb Eleven. 413 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 3: There were so many of us that went to do 414 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 3: the movie that he didn't have enough dancers and he 415 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: wanted us to come back, and I still wasn't ready 416 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 3: to come back. I was I was not feeling that 417 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: pressure of being perfect and being the lead. No no, 418 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 3: no no. And then I auditioned for all that Jazz 419 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 3: with Bob Fosse and I'll never forget. They were like, 420 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 3: I don't know how many hundreds of dancers on the 421 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 3: stage and the first thing Bob Fassi always did was 422 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 3: a ballet combination. M dah. He eliminated so many dancers 423 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 3: just from that first piece, and he stopped the audition. 424 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 3: He said, what is your name? I said, Lydia, Lydia. 425 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 3: Oh Barker, I said, okay. He had even called me 426 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 3: and wanted to know what he could do to make 427 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 3: me want to come do the movie. And I said, no, 428 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 3: it's just going to be a chorus job. And I 429 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: really want to go to Europe. You know, I might 430 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 3: be the next Josephine Baker. When I talk now, I said, 431 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: oh my god, I was so dense. But I made 432 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 3: the bad decision because Bubblin Brown Sugar was going to Europe. 433 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 3: So I did it for about four months. You know, 434 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 3: a lot of people didn't know I did jazz, and 435 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 3: I taught myself tapped to do that show and that 436 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 3: was with Cab calloway. Oh my god, were. 437 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: You missing ballet during this time? Were you missing the choreography, 438 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: were you missing the company? Were you missing. 439 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 3: Arthur? I needed the break, I really did. That particular 440 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 3: employment ended very badly. I listened to a co worker 441 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 3: who said, let's go to England and see the London casts, 442 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 3: a Bubba brown Sugar just calling sick. We're entitled the 443 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: Sick Days. And I did. But when we came back, 444 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 3: they had packed up our stuff and we were fired. 445 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 3: We had a lawsuitcase and we got our money back 446 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: because that was ridiculous. But it made me sit down 447 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: and think about, you know, where's my life gone? You know, 448 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 3: I have this man that was really really he had 449 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 3: my back, Arthur Mitchell, and so I went back to 450 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: the company and that's when he told me they were 451 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: going to be doing Swanlike. 452 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: And Swan Lake for so many ballerinas is the pivotal, 453 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: the essential ballet, the krem de la creme of roles. 454 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: Did it feel like that to you? No? 455 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: The only version I had ever seen was Valentine's version 456 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: the second act, and that's probably sacrilegious that a ballerina 457 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 3: has never I've never seen the whole thing. Okay, I 458 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 3: had two months to learn it and opening night Balanchine 459 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: was there. He wanted the pace to be a little quicker. 460 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 3: Arthur wanted some we call it the zah, you know, 461 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 3: like za the energy, you know, that dotted and there 462 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 3: was a sentence, you know. And so the curtains get 463 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 3: ready to go up, and I'm the wings and someone 464 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 3: came up and said, good luck Lydia, and I just 465 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 3: I just wanted to scream because I had no idea 466 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 3: what the heck I was. What kind of bird was 467 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: I gonna be? I mean, I really didn't relate. I 468 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 3: could not relate. And it sounds so bad, but I 469 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 3: didn't grow up with this. I didn't I didn't have 470 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 3: this reverence for it. I didn't get it. So you know, 471 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 3: I got through it. The potted dur was absolutely beautiful. 472 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 3: The audience would not stop clapping after Ronald and I 473 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 3: separated and went in the wings, and we just looked 474 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 3: at each other across the stage and we're like, what 475 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 3: are we supposed to do? I don't think we went 476 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 3: back out, but they finally stopped clapping and we finished 477 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 3: the ballet. That was the first time I got, you know, 478 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,959 Speaker 3: kind of if he reviews and I understood it. I 479 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 3: understood it. This is not Lydia, This is not the 480 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 3: culmination of the years and the sacrifices and the hard 481 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 3: work that I came to do this particular ballet that 482 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 3: is not important to me. And I had heard rumors 483 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 3: that we were going to do Giselle next. It's so 484 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 3: not me that I realized it was time. It was 485 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 3: just time to go. What Arthur was doing was too important. 486 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 3: And my little beef about the Classics and the direction 487 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 3: he was taking had nothing to do with the goal 488 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: of the company. And there were dancers who did aspire 489 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 3: to do the Classics. I was just not one of them. 490 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: I was thirty years old, I was making three hundred 491 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 3: and fifty dollars a week. I was done. So I 492 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 3: remember that morning. I got up and I was just 493 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 3: a little restaurant on the corner where i'd get an 494 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 3: egg sandwich or something, and I'm when I came out, 495 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 3: I said, I'm going to tell him. And I must 496 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 3: have walked from the traffic light pole to the door 497 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 3: of the restaurant. I don't know how many times, and 498 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: if I long lived in my building. Then he comes up. 499 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 3: He's an old vaudeville performer, and he said, what's the 500 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 3: matter with you, and I said I'm gonna quit dance 501 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 3: theater today, and he said, good for you. We need 502 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 3: to see more of you. So that gave me the 503 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 3: little bit of push I needed to go. Arthur's yelling 504 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 3: at me, You're just lazy, you don't want to do this, 505 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 3: and you know, I just let him rant because I 506 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 3: had made up my mind. And so I'm gonna tell you, 507 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 3: when I walked out that door, who the weight that 508 00:33:53,360 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: came off my shoulders? Get over? 509 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: You made me think when you said the weight that 510 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: came off my shoulders, I wonder if part of the 511 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: weight was not just the weight of Arthur's expectations for you, 512 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: but the weight of being an ambassador, the weight of 513 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: being this first black prima ballerina, as big of an 514 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: honor as it was. Was that all exhausting too? 515 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 3: It was exhausting, but I was proud. I was very 516 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 3: proud of what I had accomplished with the company had accomplished. 517 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 3: I just wasn't willing to keep doing that. I'm trying 518 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 3: to be careful what I say here. It was time 519 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 3: for Lydia to go. What Arthur was doing was too important. 520 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 3: He had this mission to prove that the answer of color, 521 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: which you know, it's so silly that there were capable 522 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 3: of doing ballet. So if he felt the need to 523 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 3: do the classics like Giselle and Swan Lake, that was 524 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 3: his mission. I had contributed everything that I could, and 525 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 3: it was time to go. I did not want anybody 526 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 3: to hear me complaining and then and in it. No, 527 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 3: I recognized it as my time. 528 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: You do get this great shot at another Broadway production. 529 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: Bob Fosse casts you in Dancing. You finally get a 530 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: shot at the an ranking rule. 531 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was hired to do trombone solo Benny Goodman, sing, Sing, Sing, 532 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 3: But well, I wanted to do that trumpet solo so bad. 533 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: It just spoke to my heart, my soul. And so 534 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 3: when the role came up, I know I nailed it. 535 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 3: He said, okay, this is your solo, and he worked 536 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 3: with me and tailored it to me. And I have 537 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 3: to say I didn't know how to hold back. We 538 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 3: had been trained to give one hundred and ten percent 539 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 3: every performance, and that's what I did for eight shows 540 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 3: a week for six months, and I blew out my knee. 541 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 3: But I have no regrets. So that's how I went out. 542 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 3: I loved doing it. Oh yeah, and all that ballet 543 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 3: training came in handy. 544 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: By the way, did you know how bad the injury was? 545 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 3: Did you know? 546 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: It was kind of a career ender? 547 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 3: When I first had it looked at. I went to 548 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 3: the hospital for special surgery because my sister worked there 549 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 3: and she was able to get me in to see 550 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 3: orthopedist and he said it needed surgery, but he couldn't 551 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 3: do it right away. So I went to another doctor 552 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 3: who apparently did most of the surgeries if they were 553 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 3: needed for New York City ballet dancers. And the surgery, 554 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 3: I thought it would be something I could just jump 555 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 3: back really quickly. And no, And so I was still 556 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 3: having pain, and I went back and the second time 557 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 3: I was under I could hear him during the surgery 558 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 3: saying things like, well, what does she expect me to 559 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 3: do it this? Nie, she's too old anyway? Why doesn't 560 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 3: she just model? So I'm hearing this and I'm just 561 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 3: so not confrontational. I just you know, after the surgery, 562 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 3: I never went back. I did bake him to refer 563 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 3: me to physical therapy. That was not even something he 564 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 3: offered me. And I did that for a while, and 565 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 3: I spent so much time trying to get my knee 566 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 3: back together. And again, I'm thirty. 567 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: While you were rehabbing your knee, you're on crutches for 568 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: a summer, and you start spending each day with your grandmother, 569 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: watching TV with her, and you once described how she said, 570 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: during a commercial break, oh, Lydia, how are you going 571 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: to get on without the applause? And what was that 572 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: like for you to stop being on stage, to stop 573 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: being the star who gets on course after encourse. 574 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 3: You know, at that time, I really still thought I 575 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 3: would be able to get back on the stage. I 576 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 3: really did, so I didn't when she said that. In 577 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 3: my head, I'll know, I'll get back to that. I'll 578 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 3: get back to that. But you know, as it went 579 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 3: on and I realized I was not Again what am 580 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 3: I supposed to do? I trusted, I lived this fairy 581 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 3: tale in my head. But I was taking jazz classes 582 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 3: at Luigi's and there was a woman there and I 583 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 3: noticed she wasn't really taking the class. She was more 584 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 3: talking to Luigian between combinations. And she came up to 585 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 3: me and she said, are you Lydia Barker? And I 586 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 3: said yes. She says, you have got to come teach 587 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 3: at my school. You have got to come to Queen's 588 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 3: and teach my students. And ah, there it was. I 589 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 3: had never thought about teaching. I was too busy trying 590 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 3: to get back on that stage. And that opened up 591 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: a whole new focus for me. Teaching, yeah, and sharing 592 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 3: what I knew and not being mean like Arthur and 593 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 3: pretty much getting the same results. 594 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: You know, it seems a truth about dancers is that 595 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: they're treated as disposable in this business. You all would 596 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: often say how Arthur would say, You're all replaceable. You know, 597 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: I got a dozen more dancers coming up. You can 598 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: lose your part at any time. You're replaceable. What in 599 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: hindsight would you tell young dancers so as to not 600 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: see themselves as replaceable? 601 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,919 Speaker 3: You know, what I really think dancers need to concentrate 602 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 3: on is their own worth. And I hate when I 603 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 3: hear of dancers who are striving to be in a 604 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 3: ballet company and the possibilities of them getting into the 605 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 3: company or being promoted in the company are very slim, 606 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 3: and so I feel strongly that you have have to 607 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 3: find a company that will nourish you, that will nurture you, 608 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 3: that will use you, and I don't know what it 609 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 3: is about. I don't know these big companies that are 610 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 3: very slow to diversify, and that's their right. But Arthur 611 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 3: Mitchell had the right idea. If you won't take us, 612 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 3: we'll do our own. It's a short career. You got 613 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 3: to make a decision. 614 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: You said how important you would think it is for 615 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: a young dancer to find herself in a company that 616 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: nurtures and nourishes her. Did Dance Theater of Harlem do 617 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: that for you? 618 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes, I told you I was clueless, 619 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 3: and I'm the rarity because everyone else that was there 620 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 3: had known what they were working towards. Oh, Dance stead 621 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 3: of Harlem. And you could talk to Annie that, especially 622 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 3: the founding members in the first and second generations that 623 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 3: got mister Mitchell's personal attention. Ooh, priceless, priceless. He could 624 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 3: tear you down, but he could just as easily build 625 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 3: you up, you know, not with praise, but with just 626 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 3: maybe a nod of approval. You're just knowing that, you know, 627 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,919 Speaker 3: you did your best, and that's what he was looking for. 628 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 3: You know. 629 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: You visited Arthur in his apartment shortly before his death, 630 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about what inspired you 631 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: to make the trip. 632 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 3: I never bragged about what I did. I would mention it, 633 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 3: and I loved having proof of it. And my daughter's 634 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 3: the same way. Daniella. She was telling people her mom 635 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 3: was the first black ballerina dance theatre Harlem, and I 636 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 3: think she went to prove it one day and she 637 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 3: put in first black ballerina and the only thing that 638 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 3: kept coming up was Misty Copeland. Misty Copeland, Mom, I thought, 639 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 3: you said you were the first black prima ballerina. Well, 640 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 3: I was, well, where's your stuff? And so we made 641 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 3: that trip because she wanted us as a family to 642 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 3: go up to dance at her Harlem, try to get 643 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 3: some photos. And we went to the New York Public 644 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 3: Library and I showed them a film of combat, but 645 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 3: the quality was so bad. They were young, they didn't 646 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 3: stay focused long. Al My husband said, why don't you 647 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 3: call Arthur because we knew he lived near Lincoln Center. 648 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 3: And I called him. I don't know, and he said, well, 649 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 3: who's with you? I said, just my family, Okay, come by. 650 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 3: I couldn't believe he said, to come by. It was wonderful. 651 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 3: It was wonderful. He let Al tape him. He was 652 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 3: so complimentary. He took out Lord Snowden's book and showed 653 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,320 Speaker 3: how the picture with me and Jerome Robbins was so good, 654 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,399 Speaker 3: and you know, he showed off his cheek muscles back 655 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 3: in the day. But that's why we were there. We 656 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 3: really my kids, my family and Arthur. I just it 657 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 3: just gave me validation. After I left the company, I 658 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 3: never called him. I never made it a point to 659 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 3: talk to him again. To me, it was just an 660 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 3: understanding that, you know, it was time for me to leave. 661 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 3: But whenever in the summers, I would drive the kids up, 662 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 3: just me and the kids because Al had to work, 663 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,839 Speaker 3: and we always stopped a dance theater and he, if 664 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 3: he was there, he'd be, oh, here's Lydia. Come Lydia. 665 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 3: He'd show me around and this is a new room, 666 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 3: and everybody, this is my first Bota Lydia Barker. And 667 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 3: it just felt so good to know that he wasn't 668 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 3: upset with me anymore, you. 669 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: Know, Lydia, How does it feel today to reclaim the 670 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:22,839 Speaker 1: fact that you were a prima ballerina? How does it 671 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: feel to put the fact of your achievement down on record? 672 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 3: It's time. I'm humble, but I know what I did, 673 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 3: and I know how hard it was to do it, 674 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 3: and I just want, you know, history to remember that. 675 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 3: But I do want people to remember I do m 676 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,240 Speaker 3: that's vanity, I guess, but I do well. 677 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. If it's vanity, it's fact. 678 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were drilled into humility. You know, you want 679 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 3: to be an artist, and so being shy and non confrontational, 680 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 3: I was quite willing to just assume that people would 681 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 3: remember me. You know, it's okay to talk about it 682 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 3: and brag about it and be remembered for it. You know, 683 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 3: Arthur was not on stage when that curtain went up. 684 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 3: It was us. 685 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: You had an extraordinary first act in your life, Lydia, 686 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:39,240 Speaker 1: and your second act was so meaningful in your struggle 687 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: to find peace and stability. But it's such a joy 688 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: to witness you in your third act now and to 689 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 1: see you in the spotlight, which is really where you've 690 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: always belonged. 691 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much, Karen. 692 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: Thank you. 693 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 2: That was Lydia Ebarka and Karen Valby, the author of 694 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 2: The Swans of Harlem, which is available wherever books and 695 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,879 Speaker 2: audio books are sold. If you like this interview, you're 696 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 2: in luck. There's another one coming up with former ballerina 697 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 2: Sheila Rohan. Keep an eye out for that, and thanks 698 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 2: for listening.